if i'm being honest, i enjoyed kate... i just believe that she was plagued by bad writing when it came down to any sort of romantic aspect with her and javier
I agree, even if I personally enjoyed the dynamic between the two.
i'm talking about in comparison to the complaints against javi/kate's relationship versus the complaints against javi/jesus' vague flirting … morewhen i mentioned that specifically. if i'm being honest, i enjoyed kate... i just believe that she was plagued by bad writing when it came down to any sort of romantic aspect with her and javier
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since it all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since i… moret all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
Yeah, Telltale is pushing agendas, but honestly season 2 Matthew wasn't even bad in my opinion, I think that was okay, didn't go out of its way to push an agenda, but Javier being bisexual was so incredibly shoehorned it doesn't even make sense.
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since i… moret all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
andrearnettbraun said:
Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans.
The young and impressionable fans that the game is not catering to because it has a mature rating? Just because young people play something doesn't mean that they in particular are being catered to. Not to mention, the dialogue was in such quick passing.
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since i… moret all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
By "young", I don't necessarily mean below the age rating, and I wouldn't expect them to be catered to as guests anyway (in that case). Either way, I'm not quite sure that we're talking about the same thing here based on your response.
andrearnettbraun said:
Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans.
The young and impress… moreionable fans that the game is not catering to because it has a mature rating? Just because young people play something doesn't mean that they in particular are being catered to. Not to mention, the dialogue was in such quick passing.
well my javier like eleanor not jesus i hope they don't make him bi beause some of us who don't read the comics didn't know jesus swing that way until he said he like me back and did i know that lmao i turn that subject off with the armor suit
it depends on how you play it. Javi doesn't show love for anyone at all if you play him as not concern about flirting. My Javi was never con… morecerned about Kate and was annoyed by her constants awkward approaches.
I think people are just too hype about the idea of Javi being bisexual because other MMos, video games and visual novel games don't have bisexual characters and/or homosexual characters. The reaction is more about players' desire than of an apocalyptic world.
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since i… moret all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
People at and above the age rating are already old enough to know that LGBT people exist. Even if there are some "young and impressionable fans" for Telltale to "push an agenda onto", teaching young people that there is nothing wrong with LGBT people is a great thing to do. You know, to raise good people.
Besides, aren't you more worried about the violence they are exposed to, then? A person can be influenced into becoming violent, but a person can't be influenced into changing their sexual orientation.
By "young", I don't necessarily mean below the age rating, and I wouldn't expect them to be catered to as guests anyway (in that case). Either way, I'm not quite sure that we're talking about the same thing here based on your response.
You, just like the moderator, have sorely misunderstood the intended purpose of my original comment. But desensitization is a gradual process with gentle nudges. You can believe whatever you want, though, as most people do in general, and on this forum especially.
Young and impressionable fans when this game is rated M lmao.
Oh no! A two second scene where two men are flirting? Quick, hide your children or else this will make them Bi!
I would strongly disagree with you. And your standard of "good" must be low, if that's what you believe. But yes, if you don't tread carefully, then it can influence you negatively. That's about all I agree with you on there.
People at and above the age rating are already old enough to know that LGBT people exist. Even if there are some "young and impressionable f… moreans" for Telltale to "push an agenda onto", teaching young people that there is nothing wrong with LGBT people is a great thing to do. You know, to raise good people.
Besides, aren't you more worried about the violence they are exposed to, then? A person can be influenced into becoming violent, but a person can't be influenced into changing their sexual orientation.
"Low"? Why? People who respect and accept others even if they are different than them are not good people?
Teaching acceptance is part of raising good people. Intolerant people are not good people, and if you think that's the case than I would say your standard of "good" must be very low.
And again, a person can't be influenced into changing their sexual orientation. This isn't a matter of belief or agreement, this is a proven fact. They are born that way. There are thousands of studies made on dozens of different countries showing that.
I would strongly disagree with you. And your standard of "good" must be low, if that's what you believe. But yes, if you don't tread carefully, then it can influence you negatively. That's about all I agree with you on there.
Cool?
It does feel a bit sudden and ill-timed to have this revealed just now, as I would have wanted any other option than Kate in this season (my Javi was very anti-Kate, no relationship in this season). Would have been interesting to actually have other options in the group to develop a romantic relationship with, but then there'd be no family drama. oh the horror--sarcasm ; I'm fine with it, and whether or not it was shoehorned in, it's a nice perspective on Javi's character. Anyone can be a protagonist!
Honesty, the way they handed David on the last episode, I think you could have been smooching Jesus in front of him for the entire duration of the season and he would still think you were with Kate and beat you up anyway.
Cool?
It does feel a bit sudden and ill-timed to have this revealed just now, as I would have wanted any other option than Kate in this se… moreason (my Javi was very anti-Kate, no relationship in this season). Would have been interesting to actually have other options in the group to develop a romantic relationship with, but then there'd be no family drama. oh the horror--sarcasm ; I'm fine with it, and whether or not it was shoehorned in, it's a nice perspective on Javi's character. Anyone can be a protagonist!
That's not what I'm saying. Whether they choose to respect and accept or not, either way, I don't think that I would classify them as a "good person". After hearing testimonies from others, who have been heavily influenced from a young age, and later turned away from that lifestyle, I would have to strongly disagree with you. It's not a "proven fact", as you say. And please don't try and say that they were never homosexuals, because that's simply not true. But they embraced that lifestyle at one point in time, which goes without needing to be said. To use the same logic that you have used here, in saying that they are "born that way", we would have to say that liars, murderers, thieves, and others are just "born that way", but using an excuse like that won't hold up in the court of law. I would make reference to another group of people, that would better help you to understand, but then it would cause more drama than is needed. However, you can believe what you want. I have said my piece.
"Low"? Why? People who respect and accept others even if they are different than them are not good people?
Teaching acceptance is part of… more raising good people. Intolerant people are not good people, and if you think that's the case than I would say your standard of "good" must be very low.
And again, a person can't be influenced into changing their sexual orientation. This isn't a matter of belief or agreement, this is a proven fact. They are born that way. There are thousands of studies made on dozens of different countries showing that.
Unfortunate Lol... Unfortunately True. I probably only ever showed a small interest with Kate in episode 1, but I honestly assumed I could get a Javi x Eleanor relationship going in the season. Nope. Too bad Kate can't keep her hands off me, even after rejecting her 8 times. She literally threw herself on me in front of David in episode 5! "No, girl! I... said.. I don't... want you!"
Honesty, the way they handed David on the last episode, I think you could have been smooching Jesus in front of him for the entire duration of the season and he would still think you were with Kate and beat you up anyway.
I'm all good with gay/bi characters being included in this type of stuff, as long as they're represented well and have a genuine purpose for being included.
Do you need a reason every time a straight person is represented?
Sexual attraction is purely biological, so they are indeed born that way. It isn't a life style, no one would choose to be discriminated and to have a higher chance of being murdered. Lying, murdering and stealing is not biological. There is no comparison to be made here that would follow any sort of logic.
I do believe the people you know truly believe that they were "cured", I don't think they are lying. I heard that same discourse coming from members of a local church before, people who were led by their families to believe that they "came out wrong" and that they "needed to be fixed", so they turned to their faith for comfort. I hope these people you know could find peace, because a couple of the ones I knew ended up killing themselves for being on that situation.
A person isn't a good person solely for accepting different people, but that's a pretty good step in the right direction. I've been working with criminal justice for almost 7 years now, and my country (Brazil) is the country that has the highest rate of hate crimes against LGBT people in the world. If I can leave something for this world, I hope I can leave children that will be loving and accepting of differences, instead of leaving a bigger trail of misguided hate behind.
But oh well. This got heavy, so I'll leave it at that too. It is not like we will ever agree anyway. Peace.
That's not what I'm saying. Whether they choose to respect and accept or not, either way, I don't think that I would classify them as a "goo… mored person". After hearing testimonies from others, who have been heavily influenced from a young age, and later turned away from that lifestyle, I would have to strongly disagree with you. It's not a "proven fact", as you say. And please don't try and say that they were never homosexuals, because that's simply not true. But they embraced that lifestyle at one point in time, which goes without needing to be said. To use the same logic that you have used here, in saying that they are "born that way", we would have to say that liars, murderers, thieves, and others are just "born that way", but using an excuse like that won't hold up in the court of law. I would make reference to another group of people, that would better help you to understand, but then it would cause more drama than is needed. However, you can believe what you want. I have said my piece.
I just added other thoughts in my reply. It is like a person. You can be straight, homo or bi and still be in not relationship whatsoever. It all depends in the circumstances.
Well, in real life people just assume everyone is straight, but it is not always the true. You don't need to show it to anyone at least the right moment appears. I think that is the reason why they gave us that alternative.
I think they should it make it clear. Just like when they were forcing the player on making Javi likes Kate by throwing us the kiss her, hug her, or w/e other option they showed and the same with Eleanor, they should make it clear with Jesus, too.
I believe that should be enough for everyone to know what to click. IF they pick those romantic options and they are guys and then complain....WELL..... they were warned.
Yeah I said the only part where he apparently was bi was the Jesus scene, its not hinted at anywhere else. Since the romance between Kate an… mored Javi was just a lame way to get conflict between David and Javi throughout all the episodes, its the reason why Id rather in the next season or DLC they stay away from romance to keep away from the same mistakes of S3 but you make Javi whatever you want make him in love with a tree but that wont be incorporated unless its canon like the apparent bi thing. I dont really know what else to say your reply didnt really have anything to do with my reply
It was already confirmed by the writer. Javier is bisexual. Period. Guys and Girls ( straight or not, or bi ) can make whatever they want with their Javi. We all are like parallel worlds/stories. Your choices might not be cannon or don't be liked by other player, but it doesn't mean they should force you to change. That is your playthrough.
well my javier like eleanor not jesus i hope they don't make him bi beause some of us who don't read the comics didn't know jesus swing that way until he said he like me back and did i know that lmao i turn that subject off with the armor suit
Hey, a lot of us LGBT fans are just excited. Javi is my favorite character, and hearing that he was bisexual like me made me and a lot of othe people seriously happy.
I.... don't really care, I'm not unhappy or anything, But this is about the zombie apocalypse? I don't think anybody has time to be homophobic when their trying not to die, I just don't think it merits a discussion
Um, okay...Seems a bit shoehorned, if you ask me. If he was bisexual from the start, why not acknowledge it then and there, instead of just randomly throwing it into the last episode? I don't have any issue with Javier being bi, it's just this doesn't seem as though it was initially planned and was just forced at the last minute.
They made a really poor attempt at representing it in the game. You only got any hint of this during the very final dialogues of the game. I doubt an ANF 2 is going to happen so good luck in even getting this explored. This is just like how they revealed off-game (Reddit AMA?) that Ed wasn't even the biological father of Clementine.
Bi person here and I'm here to say that this feels like pandering A BIT.
Hear me out. We get a little flirt here, but it's hidden away and doesn't have any impact. So yes, it's cute, but it does feel like it hits a bare minimum without being bold. So I guess pandering isn't the word but maybe it more feels like an afterthought? IDK we could have as prominent an option like Kate where you get both a male and female characters vying for your attention? That'd be nice.
Thats why I guess I fell into the rage of it feeling like a bit of a pander. It would've been nice if this more canonically written, instead of part of a specific dialogue chain you have to go hunting for. For a character that has deeply developed relationships as a brother, love interest for a woman, and surrogate father, I would've loved there maybe to be something more to his bisexuality. IDK hell, it'd be nice if there was even a quick shot of him flirting with a dude in the past.
Walter, Matthew, Zachary, Jonas, Jesus and Paige (only main character in this list), only in TWD. There must be more in other games (Athena and Janey in TFTB, and I heard a rumor about Sasha being bisexual, but there is nothing confirmed).
(Although i'm fully aware that there are lots of other LGBT main characters in their work)
Wait, really? I mean, that's awesome. Do you have evidence of this?
LBGT people make like 10 per cent of the population. It would be unrealistic not no see anyone. And no one is shoving it down anyone's throats. People asked and they replied. Simple as that.
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since i… moret all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
Comments
Yes but he isn't into men. You know the difference right?
I agree, even if I personally enjoyed the dynamic between the two.
Just wanna say it again, thank you Telltale, for making him bi, means a lot for us.
Well, this is awkward. Telltale Games is pushing an agenda onto its already young and impressionable fans. This comes as no surprise since it all started with Matthew and Walter in season two. Aside from that, Javier didn't show any signs of being interested in males sexually, and now all of a sudden we learned from a lead writer that he was bisexual. Like, what?
I just noticed his username.
Whose username?
The writer.
Yeah, Telltale is pushing agendas, but honestly season 2 Matthew wasn't even bad in my opinion, I think that was okay, didn't go out of its way to push an agenda, but Javier being bisexual was so incredibly shoehorned it doesn't even make sense.
The irony!
The young and impressionable fans that the game is not catering to because it has a mature rating? Just because young people play something doesn't mean that they in particular are being catered to. Not to mention, the dialogue was in such quick passing.
pretty cool, but it's pretty irrelevant at this point
By "young", I don't necessarily mean below the age rating, and I wouldn't expect them to be catered to as guests anyway (in that case). Either way, I'm not quite sure that we're talking about the same thing here based on your response.
well my javier like eleanor not jesus i hope they don't make him bi beause some of us who don't read the comics didn't know jesus swing that way until he said he like me back and did i know that lmao i turn that subject off with the armor suit
Young and impressionable fans when this game is rated M lmao.
Oh no! A two second scene where two men are flirting? Quick, hide your children or else this will make them Bi!
People at and above the age rating are already old enough to know that LGBT people exist. Even if there are some "young and impressionable fans" for Telltale to "push an agenda onto", teaching young people that there is nothing wrong with LGBT people is a great thing to do. You know, to raise good people.
Besides, aren't you more worried about the violence they are exposed to, then? A person can be influenced into becoming violent, but a person can't be influenced into changing their sexual orientation.
You, just like the moderator, have sorely misunderstood the intended purpose of my original comment. But desensitization is a gradual process with gentle nudges. You can believe whatever you want, though, as most people do in general, and on this forum especially.
I would strongly disagree with you. And your standard of "good" must be low, if that's what you believe. But yes, if you don't tread carefully, then it can influence you negatively. That's about all I agree with you on there.
"Low"? Why? People who respect and accept others even if they are different than them are not good people?
Teaching acceptance is part of raising good people. Intolerant people are not good people, and if you think that's the case than I would say your standard of "good" must be very low.
And again, a person can't be influenced into changing their sexual orientation. This isn't a matter of belief or agreement, this is a proven fact. They are born that way. There are thousands of studies made on dozens of different countries showing that.
Cool?
oh the horror--sarcasm ; I'm fine with it, and whether or not it was shoehorned in, it's a nice perspective on Javi's character. Anyone can be a protagonist!
It does feel a bit sudden and ill-timed to have this revealed just now, as I would have wanted any other option than Kate in this season (my Javi was very anti-Kate, no relationship in this season). Would have been interesting to actually have other options in the group to develop a romantic relationship with, but then there'd be no family drama.
Honesty, the way they handed David on the last episode, I think you could have been smooching Jesus in front of him for the entire duration of the season and he would still think you were with Kate and beat you up anyway.
That's not what I'm saying. Whether they choose to respect and accept or not, either way, I don't think that I would classify them as a "good person". After hearing testimonies from others, who have been heavily influenced from a young age, and later turned away from that lifestyle, I would have to strongly disagree with you. It's not a "proven fact", as you say. And please don't try and say that they were never homosexuals, because that's simply not true. But they embraced that lifestyle at one point in time, which goes without needing to be said. To use the same logic that you have used here, in saying that they are "born that way", we would have to say that liars, murderers, thieves, and others are just "born that way", but using an excuse like that won't hold up in the court of law. I would make reference to another group of people, that would better help you to understand, but then it would cause more drama than is needed. However, you can believe what you want. I have said my piece.
Unfortunate Lol... Unfortunately True. I probably only ever showed a small interest with Kate in episode 1, but I honestly assumed I could get a Javi x Eleanor relationship going in the season. Nope. Too bad Kate can't keep her hands off me, even after rejecting her 8 times. She literally threw herself on me in front of David in episode 5! "No, girl! I... said.. I don't... want you!"
No, considering how straight people are the overwhelming majority of the population.
Sexual attraction is purely biological, so they are indeed born that way. It isn't a life style, no one would choose to be discriminated and to have a higher chance of being murdered. Lying, murdering and stealing is not biological. There is no comparison to be made here that would follow any sort of logic.
I do believe the people you know truly believe that they were "cured", I don't think they are lying. I heard that same discourse coming from members of a local church before, people who were led by their families to believe that they "came out wrong" and that they "needed to be fixed", so they turned to their faith for comfort. I hope these people you know could find peace, because a couple of the ones I knew ended up killing themselves for being on that situation.
A person isn't a good person solely for accepting different people, but that's a pretty good step in the right direction. I've been working with criminal justice for almost 7 years now, and my country (Brazil) is the country that has the highest rate of hate crimes against LGBT people in the world. If I can leave something for this world, I hope I can leave children that will be loving and accepting of differences, instead of leaving a bigger trail of misguided hate behind.
But oh well. This got heavy, so I'll leave it at that too. It is not like we will ever agree anyway. Peace.
I just added other thoughts in my reply. It is like a person. You can be straight, homo or bi and still be in not relationship whatsoever. It all depends in the circumstances.
Well, in real life people just assume everyone is straight, but it is not always the true. You don't need to show it to anyone at least the right moment appears. I think that is the reason why they gave us that alternative.
I think they should it make it clear. Just like when they were forcing the player on making Javi likes Kate by throwing us the kiss her, hug her, or w/e other option they showed and the same with Eleanor, they should make it clear with Jesus, too.
I believe that should be enough for everyone to know what to click. IF they pick those romantic options and they are guys and then complain....WELL..... they were warned.
why is this always said when it's confirmed that a video game character is not straight?
It was already confirmed by the writer. Javier is bisexual. Period. Guys and Girls ( straight or not, or bi ) can make whatever they want with their Javi. We all are like parallel worlds/stories. Your choices might not be cannon or don't be liked by other player, but it doesn't mean they should force you to change. That is your playthrough.
ok i guess? not sure how it matters to the story at all but i'm glad people are happy with this fact.
Aside from the fact he is cause he's bisexual regardless of what the player does.
Hey, a lot of us LGBT fans are just excited. Javi is my favorite character, and hearing that he was bisexual like me made me and a lot of othe people seriously happy.
Well us LGBT people appreciate it, lol
I mean, he's bisexual sooo..he technically is
I'm seeing so many "Javi can't be bisexual, he's into Kate!" Like..do you guys know what bisexual means?
Um, okay...Seems a bit shoehorned, if you ask me. If he was bisexual from the start, why not acknowledge it then and there, instead of just randomly throwing it into the last episode? I don't have any issue with Javier being bi, it's just this doesn't seem as though it was initially planned and was just forced at the last minute.
They made a really poor attempt at representing it in the game. You only got any hint of this during the very final dialogues of the game. I doubt an ANF 2 is going to happen so good luck in even getting this explored. This is just like how they revealed off-game (Reddit AMA?) that Ed wasn't even the biological father of Clementine.
Bi person here and I'm here to say that this feels like pandering A BIT.
Hear me out. We get a little flirt here, but it's hidden away and doesn't have any impact. So yes, it's cute, but it does feel like it hits a bare minimum without being bold. So I guess pandering isn't the word but maybe it more feels like an afterthought? IDK we could have as prominent an option like Kate where you get both a male and female characters vying for your attention? That'd be nice.
YES thank you!
Thats why I guess I fell into the rage of it feeling like a bit of a pander. It would've been nice if this more canonically written, instead of part of a specific dialogue chain you have to go hunting for. For a character that has deeply developed relationships as a brother, love interest for a woman, and surrogate father, I would've loved there maybe to be something more to his bisexuality. IDK hell, it'd be nice if there was even a quick shot of him flirting with a dude in the past.
lol Max
Walter, Matthew, Zachary, Jonas, Jesus and Paige (only main character in this list), only in TWD. There must be more in other games (Athena and Janey in TFTB, and I heard a rumor about Sasha being bisexual, but there is nothing confirmed).
LBGT people make like 10 per cent of the population. It would be unrealistic not no see anyone. And no one is shoving it down anyone's throats. People asked and they replied. Simple as that.