Am I the only one who doesn't want the Joker as the villain anymore?
Even though it's likely to happen in the last 2 episodes according to the thumbnails, I feel like I don't want John Doe to become the Joker anymore because his friendship with Bruce Wayne in this sequel is gold, easily one of the highlights of this game. It would be too predictable if they're going to do the same thing like other Batman universes.
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Well, I like John but its pretty much written in the stars that he will go to become the Joker. But just the thing that we care so much about him is gonna make it extra sad when it does happen...
I agree with you that it would be nice if they decided to change things up with the storyark behind the Joker and not make him a villain... but at the same time he is one of the best villains there is...
Either way I will be pleased.
You are not the only one. I'm the same thing. That's why I wanted to find a way to prevent John from becoming Joker. If it does happen however then I'll be forced to actually kill him since we know what the future it will be like every other versions of Joker
Maybe the devious version of Joker will still be Bruce's friend. He just commits harmless crimes to mess with him and have fun. ...eh, I guess that's already been done with Bruce and Selina. Agh. Wish there was an option for Bruce to be like 'John... don't ever change. No, seriously, don't.'
But we all know the Joker is destined to happen.
I feel the same way. I've pretty much done everything for John to make him feel appreciated. I gave Selina to the Pact for him.
No you're not, I never really wanted John to become Joker, the villain, in the first place. And yep, this different version and the friendship has been the highlight of the season and I would like if it didn't just automatically become what we've seen a hundred times before.
It's been kind of divided, some people love the differences like John and Harley, while others complain that the characters are not what we're used to. I'm the former..
and I appreciate Telltale's own versions of these characters. Wonder if there's a way to make both parties happy.. 
Here's hoping.
I want him to become the Joker but I think our choices should shape his character in a huge way. If you've been buddies with him at every opportunity then the game should take that into account and give you a more "frenemy" type relationship with him. Getting kind of tired of meek beta John, would love to see the prison break finally happen.
No man I want to invite him to the batcave and train him to be robin. He's my little bro.
Oh I want him to become the Joker...I want him to mail Bruce little presents from some of his nefarious crimes as a way to torment him. I really want them to play up the frenemy aspect of their relationship.
Well that's the point. Because of our friendship with John it'll make it that much more emotional if and when he becomes the Joker.
I'd like if he wasn't truly the villain until S3 and this season is just shaping him into the Joker.
Are we talking about the same John Doe that last season stabbed the crazy guy and enjoyed how he killed one of the working men in Arkham Asylum? or the same Joker that couldn't stop laughing when Harley "knocked out" the guard in Episode 2 S2?, he's not exactly a good guy right now, there won't be much difference if he goes full villain later.
Besides you're being delusional about John being your best friend ever, he has the chance to betray Bruce by giving the laptop to Batman and he couldn't stop threatening him about telling Harley about the whole laptop business.
I've really enjoyed the dynamics of the friendship between Bruce and John, and I know most of the player base has in some ways as well. He's the male Selena Kyle if we're completely honest. He's far from harmless, and from the way he watched Catwoman and Bruce fight at Riddler's lair, he's studying up on how to get Bruce's attention. In much the same way a lot of versions of Joker are laughing while Batman is beating them to a pulp while returning a few blows, and pulling a few tricks -- it's Joker 'flirting' with Batman. It's their cat and mouse game that makes his blood boil. In that sense, I'm afraid our dear John is fated to be Joker.
...
I think you are one of the few people I've read on this forum that sees John clearly. People are so charmed by his awkwardness they somehow forget or forgive all those things you've pointed out about John. Since I've never forgotten those aspects of him, my Bruce is either getting close to manipulate him or keeping him at arms length.
You have some great points that I agree on and I dont recall I ever said he was a good guy but, I like the character and when he goes down it will be sad becouse I dont think John sees himself as an horrible person... I think he wants to be good, but he got a twisted mind.
Will be an epic battle at the end, one way or another.
It all depends what kind of "villain" he becomes. We are supposed to partly shape him after all.
Let's not also forget that he told Harley about Tiffany, even though he promised not to. She's in danger partly because of him, if you choose to take the blame. I think this "friendship" is nearing it's end.
Apparently John was never taught the Bro code.
He loves to rile people up, it's in his nature.
Right?! I just sat there with my mouth agape like 'duuuuddee... really?' And then it kinda irked me that in the codex it says 'I really do appreciate John's genuine concern for me.' That had me laughing because all I could think was 'He just sold out Tiffany! Then attempted to steal the laptop and sold you and catwoman out!' Seems to me Bruce has fallen into the same trap as Harley. Yah just can't blame John for nothin'. He's managed to manipulate them both by being so likable.
It seems that Bruce will consider John his buddy no matter what you say and do in the game. That's disappointing.
Yeah. Which was odd because I was buddy, buddy as Bruce but wouldn't even shake his hand as batman. Bruce is undercover so it seems natural for Bruce to play as a friend and not really feel that way. The whole point of it was to put an end to the pact, for my Bruce (probably not everyone's) that would include John. John may not be a killer but he is an accessory.
Though I do love Johns character it was a little odd to have my Bruce feel it was a genuine friendship. I even tried to blame John for the laptop when Harley was talking about him or catwoman as the mole.
I played the game with the same assumption. Seemed logical to me. It makes me wonder how the whole fall out with John/Joker will look. If the game assumes that you were a genuine friend to John and Bruce will act distressed, like you naturally would when losing a friend, it's going to be really jarring to me. I hope they'll leave it up to the player.
I hope so to. But I think that they'll manage it. So far all of Bruce's expressions have fit pretty well. I mean, if they do make Bruce upset about the fallout, they'll probably manage it in a way that there are multiple reasons as to be upset vs it just being about John.
I thought that too but that codex entry got me a tiny bit worried. But I'll just see how it goes. As of now I'm really enjoying S2.
We all know that actually the story from telltale games is happening into the similar universe to original dc except everything is more like in our life, Batman can be hurt, Batman can fall in love, Batman can be a bad guy... and so on, so what all of this mean?! Joker had many faces but a few of them he portrait as a good guy,
Justice League Crisis on Two Earths where Batman is Owlman (one of the bad guy that want to destroy the whole mutivers) and Joker as Jester http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Jester_(Crisis_on_Two_Earths:_Crime_Syndicate_Earth)
Red Hood as a heroic alternative reality version of Joker. http://braveandbold.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Hood
So yeah I think Joker can become someone else then just our classic Joker
Maybe something new calling "Ace", if I'm not mistaken you can let him throw a batmerang so I do incline most likely he will become like Red Hood trowing Ace cards
That is an excellent point! However, I think John is sort of at a crossroads - can he be redeemed before he goes too far down the path of the dark side?
Right? Because I personally do not consider John my buddy.
I don't have any friends I'm a solo act..(unless your Selina
)
Just finished episode 3,
John is on Bruce’s side throughout the silent treatment... as we know that’s how we get their default view by not influencing them with words.
I'm torn up here. I want him as a villain, and I don't at the same time. I certanly want him as my arch nemesis, but I also want to keep him as a friend, lol. I wouldn't mind to turn him into some twisted version of Robin. Of course I can't get all those things at the same time. =D
Plus, he is already quite a jerk, lol, no matter how friendly. On the top of all his assholeness, I'm almost 100% sure he was perfectly aware of what he was doing, when he ratted Tiffany to Harley in order to force Bruce to blame Selina for the theft.
Anyway, I think I want something similar to Catwoman "good" relationship with him, like being allies, but on the different sides of the law, sometimes working together in order to achieve same goals, sometimes messing things up for each other.
It's possible if TT isn't planning to make him Big Bad Joker immediately, which I doubt they'll do. He need to climb up to that level yet.
So, frenemies is my bet for now. That, if he won't become a complete maniac by the end of the season.
Who else thinks John is already a master manipulator and is just playing a long con? I just have a feeling he already knows Bruce is batman or is close to putting it together.
I also don't want the Joker...The Riddler was the perfect villain or the franchise...but now is too late...
He strongly implied he figured it out in S01E4.
I don't think he knows. It would be pretty boring, imho. But I think he is close, and sometimes I have this feeling he is teasing Bruce with the right sort of questions, or just fishing for information.
Bruce can give him a lot of hints too, lol.
But I think TT are just teasing us. I think he meant Bruce's hidden darker personality, not him being Batman, when he said "I know what you really are" in the first season.
John is already crazy and dangerous. When the chance comes my batman will bring him down
I am glad you pointed it out. The guy is all '' I don't trust catwoman, I don't like how cozy she was with the riddler''
or '' I was starting to think I was losing you to her'' ( if you chose '' we'll check if it's safe'' dialogue option at riddlers ).
I like how he says he doesn't want Tiffany or Catwoman hurt when he is in front of Bruce, but he rats them both out all the same.
I think suspecting the number one suspect for being the mole or the thief for being responsable for the theft was unavoidable anyway. John probably knew it too and saw an opportunity.
By ratting out on Tiffany he gets brownie points with Harley and that's the obvious goal here.
However, I can't help but think he could possibly have known that Bruce would be more likely to rat catwoman out rather than sacrifice himself if another friends life was on the line.
Plus, he gets rid of Catwoman who he didn't trust anyway...
That's three very good reason to do it. Depending on when he said it, it could be that he did it for all three of them.
And in one episode he does his best to please Harley, Bruce, and Batman...
Everything he does seems to be aiming for that. Obviously since they are three seemingly different people with seemingly different goals it requires him to be quite the hypocrite...
It's not the first time John is being sneaky, dishonest and manipulative to please these three, protect them or have them for himself. Nothing new here. With the way I play Bruce I really cannot blame him for it either.
Damn I love this boy. He is such a great character.
I don't think that's what he meant. I'm pretty sure his line was more of a 'I know you're not that nice of a guy' or 'I know you've got this anger, this ruthlessness inside you'. Not really that he's Batman.
John knows Bruce's public face is just a façade, but I doubt he knows we're Batman.
So far he's interacted with them as two separate people, and his first real-life encounter with Bats was on the GCPD roof. So there's no way he could have figured out Bruce's identity through the TV at the asylum.
Usually I would agree but Telltale's version is very interesting and unique so I'm fine with it