What are some examples of tropes, themes and archetypes that you'd like to see explored in TFS?
As the title says, I want to know if there are any specific narrative conventions that you'd be interested in watching Telltale play with in The Final Season. This is a very broad topic so if there's anything that you feel counts as a storytelling device that you want to be incorporated into Clem's last installment please feel free to bring it up and go into detail.
Also if you want to include examples of tropes that come from TVtropes I'd recommend linking the trope's page on the wiki so that others can get a further understanding. Thank you 
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I've been wanting to finally see a proper Evil Counterpart for Clementine for a while now.
Bad Lee.. for last antagonist. A doppelganger.
We've already done that with The Stranger, though. Not to mention having to deal with Kenny going crazy.
Clementine needs to be able evaluate herself in such a conflict and that is best done by having the antagonist reflect various aspects of herself.
From ANF, I was hoping that Eleanor would at least play a deconstruction of the Sheep in Sheep's Clothing trope idea I had some time ago.
Basically, a decent and kindhearted individual who only wants to help others in times of need becomes suspected and accused by others around them for secretly having an agenda behind their 'nice guy/girl' persona. The constant persecution and threats from their friends eventually results in the individual leaving or outright defecting to another group, thus becoming a 'traitor' to the group who had accused them of being the most likely to turn traitor.
I would like to see this idea being made in The Final Season, as unlikely as it could be.
Sometimes I feel the Stranger was more so morally ambiguous as well as insane than full blown bad like the St. Johns and Carver. He didn't actively seek out Lee to harm him or his group when he could had. He seemed to be willing to let Lee go since he mainly wanted to discuss what he'd done to him and his family and felt he'd be taking much better care of Clementine than he had done.. he also scolds Lee for some of his negative choices as though he was judging him all the way up until that point. It was when the two tried to attack him when he felt the need to defend himself and put down Lee who he found out was on his way to turning soon anyhow.
The true wicked counterpart to Lee that I was aiming for would look similar to B.Everett maybe a bit more stocky and even sound similar to Lee but slightly different this could enable Dave Fennoy to return to the studio just to work on a altered voice like Melissa Hutchinson does for the older Clementine versions. And this would contrast the good Lee from season 1. Clem could be much more conflicted about harming and killing someone that reminds her so much of who she admired and respected than an evil her. Season 3 Clementine which is the most current Clem would not hesitate to dispatch someone like this as quick as possible if needed be. Say if someone like Becca being similar in age and size became trouble for Clementine or a danger to AJ she'd have a simpler time defeating her than someone bigger and smarter than Lee was.
I'm not against having a evil Clem or both an evil Clem and evil Lee together but if it's only a bad Clementine counterpart then I am thinking it would probably only go so far and this never before seen character could just be a side villain like the bandits or St.Johns and swiftly taken care of after a couple confrontations than something a little longer termed like Carver's run. Just my two cents as I'd actually wouldn't mind seeing a real bad Clementine but I think it wouldn't go anywhere to deep. Because it looks like they attempted explore this a bit with Clem's darker aspects already in The New Frontier since that game portrayed her as having became the most vicious and cold she's ever been so far.. that most would just imagine someone being just like that just without any morals and looking similar and maybe shooting guys for fun than because of blank bullets.
As much as I want Telltale to stray away from black and white morality, i'd be interested in seeing how Telltale would pull this off. I'm thinking someone who acts as a sort of amalgamation of the worst traits of Carver, Jane and Kenny combined, while also attempting to act as a sort of father (or mother) surrogate to Clem in similar vein to Lee's relationship with her. A person who is ruthless to those that have wronged them yet is reasonable as well as compassionate to those they care about; someone manipulative but good intentioned; reckless yet resourceful. Someone excessively loyal and yearning for friendship and family but has become too afraid of both commitment and reality to be capable of attaining any meaningful connections. I feel that this person could work as a sort of "worst future" version of Clementine where she failed to protect both AJ and her current support group, namely the Garcias, and finally breaks down to due being unable to cope.
I felt having some characters do a Heel-Face Turn would capitalize on how morally ambiguous the conflicts tend to be, have antagonists who clearly aren't just the obligatory monster of the week openly embrace their positive traits, and cut back on the bleaker attitudes towards character life in general.
We have had a few characters fit this criteria in the past, but most of them either weren't very antagonistic to begin with, had their antagonism downplayed/removed to the point of rendering the point null, or as of late never really getting to take their position due to flat out disappearing from the story.
Through the course of A New Frontier, many of the Choices we were given while playing as Javier have been influenced by Clementine. Most people who have played TWD up to this point in the series have had a significant bias towards Clementine based upon their own experience with her character. This has led to most decisions involving Her Character being Relatively One-Sided as a result. What I would like to see in TFS is a New Deuteragonist who could have a similar influence on Clementine in making decisions. In this situation, The X-Factor of Character Bias would be Absent, resulting in fewer One-Sided Choices, and more Evenly Split Choices to make things more interesting.
On the FLIP SIDE, I've noticed that many of the Choices made by Javier, involving Clementine Did NOT seem to carry much weight with her interactions with him. That being said, whatever choices we would make while playing as Clementine would have to Carry SOME LEVEL of weight with the New Deuteragonist as mentioned earlier: Starting off Subtle, but becoming Much More Substantial as the TFS Progresses.
Not really sure how that relates to what I said, but okay.
It would also provide a means for Clementine to evaluate herself as a person by weighing in on the New Deuteragonist's Opinions and Reactions to her Choices as the story progresses.
in other words, you want a QTE catfight
rowr
I just want the season to be properly dark, and not with as many tonally jarring jokes as last season (fuck you helicopter, stuff like that)
Yea, although I wouldn't really MIND hearing an occasional Homage Joke every Now and Again.
I suppose that would be kinda mandatory at this point.
It doesn't have to be another prostitot, though. Could easily be a fairyboy, someone older, or even just some mean little girl.
This. Please. I want another dark season like S1 and to an extent S2.
I would love for one of the earlier arcs in this last season to revolve around Clementine coming across a shady post acolyptic town similar to presscott but more chaotic and corrupt with almost no laws or rules binding it together. Since Clementine is a young girl she is a much bigger target. Eventually some creeper sees her and attempts to assault her and the player has to find a way to get out of the situation. I don't want to see a full out assault scene only for it to be hinted at. A guy grabs Clementine from behind and it is not revealed that he was going to rape her but it isn't hard for the players to draw that conclusion. Nothing really happens, the player has the choice to shoot, stab, bite the guy's hand, or scream for help. If Clementine screams for help or doesn't do anything she is saved by a new character who ends up being a regular reocurring friendly face throughout the season. If he saves Clementine, afterwards he gives her a big lecture about how she needs to be more careful about watching her back. While if you chose one of the other options and took care of the creeper by yourself this new guy starts out with much more respect for Clementine and no lecture is needed. I feel like this would make the fact that she is a young girl more interesting and show how dangerous the apocalypse is especially if you are a young girl.
Hey, it is a valid point. There were several fun QTE fights in season one for Lee, but not in season 2 for understandable reasons. (although I wish they could have incorporated more "fight scenes" like the winston chase for Clem, then)
Now that Clem is a bit bigger, there's more room for fight scenes to come back.
Come to think of it. I coulda swore there was a scene in a TWD Comic (Though it Could've been a Different One) involving a teenage girl wooping a Teenage guy's ass, saying something to the effect that "Strength isn't Everything." I would LOVE to See something like that in TFS.
Exactly True Dat
You know what, I think I would too.
Fuck you, Carver and Jane!
In a way, I like this idea. But, I think this would be better if it showed how much she has grown since she was first taken advantage of by a stranger. She has learned from her past and now doesn't let anyone she doesn't know get close without her pointing a gun at their head, so unless it's a sneak attack or she somehow can't use her gun, they won't stand much chance.
What is up with people's fascination(let's call it that) with this type of scene? I've seen it pop up as far back as before Season 2 was out.
Girl Power? Question mark? Pause beforehand?
I wish I knew. Maybe because they think it’ll make the season more darker (which it probably will). I’d rather not see this type of scene, honestly.
I don't think Telltale wants to, either.
Rather than a full assault scene, just have it be a grown man hitting on Clementine. Just when he’s about to do something, someone from her new group saves her before he can try anything. Simple as that.
Well, considering Jolene, Rebecca, and originally Jane, I can't help but put on my skepticles on that notion.
Ehhh... Honestly this whole scenario and the reasoning behind it's possible implementation is giving me David Cage vibes and I don't like it. I guess the topic does makes more sense with The Walking Dead due to the lawlessness of it's setting, but it would still require a substantial amount of delicacy in it's execution which makes me pretty uneasy about the idea. I just don't see why a scene like that would be essential to the story; there are other ways to enforce a darker tone without incorporating explicit sexual harassment towards Clementine. I suppose I'll just wait to see what The Final Season actually presents to us.
(And can we not derail this thread with the subject of rape please? Thank you.)
The suggestion has been made. Let's move on to others. Discussing said topic is treading on thin ice.
I think the addition of a foreboding danger would be a nice touch. A common poorly executed horror trope that can be very effective if used right. The previous games have touched it, but it's always been revealed in either the same episode or next. I'm talking about a feeling that something/someone is coming/following for multiple episodes before a reveal. The issue there, is that if not done well, or up to expectation, it can ruin the whole experience. It's a very Hitchcockian trope. It's just a suggestion. Something outside of just zombies and drama.
I don't want to see him actually do something to her. I actually thinking about a scene similar to a scene in The Last of Us where that creep gets on top of Ellie and she stabs the crap out of him. The reason I would like to see this is because it shows how the apocalypse is much more dangerous for a young girl than a grown man.
I don't want to see anything happen I only want it to be hinted at. Similar to a scene in The Last of Us. Basicaly a guy tries to make a move on Clementine which results in clementine shooting him or stabing him depending on the players choice.
Yes! Something to show how much she has grown. I was thinking of something along the lines of a guy grabs her from behind and you have the option to shoot, stab, bite the guy's hand, or yell for help. If you yell for help or do nothing a character who becomes one of the new main cast saves her and gives Clem a big talking to about how she needs to be more careful afterwards something along the lines of that.
It would be interesting if this season explored how dangerous natural disasters would be in the apocalypse where there is no government agency repairing the damage. Something like an earth quake or a fire that gets out of control would make for an interesting arc.
Something like a tornado/hurricane/volcano/flood without aid? That could be interesting, especially if it happens within a safe area. I like.
That would be pretty interesting, actually.
Yeah, that was one of the things that pops into my mind whenever people say they want that type of scene to happen.
Again, Girl Power or some shit.
One conflict I thought should've been utilized at some point is the concept of rival/competing groups. While there are a handful of exceptions and nonconformists out there, most survivors prefer to band together into organized groups that increase each person's odd's of survival and look out for each other. And while there are thankfully cases where two different groups can interact and even work together for a common goal, but at their core, everyone is primarily out to protect them and theirs. So naturally, there are bound to be bouts of occasional confusion and dispute between two separate units with a conflict or even similar objective, perhaps with one or two people between the groups wanting to achieve unity or at least find a way to co-exist without needing to kill each other.
It would make for an interesting showcase of what is essentially gang mentality that the main characters would have to either tread on thin ice to avoid unnecessary bloodshed or, if it really comes down to it, be able to do what is necessary to ensure their groups survival. It's a great format for which an increasingly level/tense grey/gray conflict could be developed that hasn't really been sustantially done yet. Though each subsequent Season/installment choosing different settlements with varying levels of corrupt leadership isn't an inherently flawed premise to focus on, it has unfortunately played a fairly large part in preventing such an rudimentary setup in an apocalypse from being explored.
In fact, it's actually an example of where I felt Arvo and the Russian Group were wasted characters with one or three potential plot points.
I love this concept. It would be great to have a major negotiation scene at the end of one of the episiodes (probably the penultimate episode) kind of similar to what we got in Michonne episode 3 but written and performed much bettter. Where throughout previous episiodes you get various oppurtunities to gather bargaining chips, hostages, and build good and bad relationships with new characters of both groups. The two groups meet each other at gun-point and you have to draw on your barganing chips, hostages, and the relationships you have made to calm the situation or cause to the negotiation to become a full out gun fight. Examples of how the discussion could end are:
After the end of the negotiation the episode ends with a cliffhanger.
Even if something like that happened, it wouldn't be Clementine who I'd be worried about. I think she is fully capable of defending herself in a situation like that, even though we haven't got to see her in a real fight yet. I like the idea of the fight almost happening and then being cut off. In a way, alluding to what we may see down the line.
Oh, so kinda like how the Eli situation should've ended.
I think these games really could've benefited making things feel less like competitions for the sake of controversy and more like legitimately clashing viewpoints of realistic, complicated individuals that occasionally invites other members of the group to feel conflicted and/or pick sides based on individual preferences.
Another Franchise Original Sin is the tendency for the writing/storytelling direction to overly favor one side over the other. It's an issue that gets worse and more transparent with each installment and one that can be solved by actually giving both sides equal chances via strengths, weaknesses, and commonalities that flesh both out as that come into conflict with each other.
Yah. This reminds me of how the characters in Avatar: The Last Airbender tv show did it's character dynamics. You got to see each character's motives and opinions without it becoming overbearing on other opinions. They were all free to be diverse and sometimes conflict, and it had a way of resolving these conflicts so it spoke to the middle ground of both sides, bringing the characters together towards one goal which could help them fulfill their own motives. I agree, this type of character writing should be brought into the walking dead. In a world with no more laws and rules, characters should be free to have their own motives and no one should have the power to overrule them, but the people's ability to allow these motives to coexist towards a goal that satisfies both sides should be what brings them together.