Not to get into a debate here about ANF in Batman waiting thread, but the 42 different starting points was under the post talking about how saves from S1 and S2 would be transferred to S3, so obviously everyone reading at the time was going to think "42 starting points" was exactly what it was saying, not 42 clusters.
The "42 points" for ANF was misunderstood - they meant that the Story Generator resulted in 42 different permutations of Clementine's person… moreality throughout previous choices in Seasons 1 and 2, so that if you were unable to import a direct save file, then you had 42 different variations of Clem that resembled "clusters" of player choices. They didn't mean that in the context of "42 different starting points for ANF."
Here is one of the examples of the "permutations" they were talking about.
The entire system and the marketing surrounding it was still incredibly deceptive and misleading. It determined what kind of player you were and what kind of decisions your Clem made and why, yet none of it ended up making any sort of difference? The implication was that it would drastically change how Clem interacted in your game but it absolutely didn't.
The "42 points" for ANF was misunderstood - they meant that the Story Generator resulted in 42 different permutations of Clementine's person… moreality throughout previous choices in Seasons 1 and 2, so that if you were unable to import a direct save file, then you had 42 different variations of Clem that resembled "clusters" of player choices. They didn't mean that in the context of "42 different starting points for ANF."
Here is one of the examples of the "permutations" they were talking about.
Also, re: shared scenes and stuff ( @Poogers555 ), by my own personal estimate, about 90-95% of the episode is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT dependin… moreg on which version of the Joker you get. You'll see in the coming weeks... we're going to have more than one trailer
I know it's just talk now, since the game isn't out yet, but I honestly truly believe our episode backs up everything in the press release. We haven't done anything like this before and I'm really excited about it!!
I just want to take this time to say that YES the thirty-eight characters include the smaller characters. That said, across both versions of… more the finale, there are sixteen immediately recognizable speaking parts with more than just a few lines.
And if you play your cards right, there may be one or two recognizable cameos...
Everyone's hyped for the finale being fairly different depending on our choices, and here I am thinking that unless episode 5 ends the same way for everybody, for example Joker ending in Arkham, the possibility of S3 is going to be extremly low.
Wow... I mean, when we got to see that Telltale made ballsy decision to create such a huge divergence with John becoming Vigilante / Villain, I was hoping that we'd get two different plot lines for the finale (going after Joker & Harley / going after Waller)
I kinda hoped for it, but being a realist I didn't think that would ACTUALLY happen. I mean, bravo Telltale for stepping up your game big time! I guess it won't be a very long episode since developing 2in1 kind of episode would extend the development time significantly, but it's still a welcome surprise IMO. March 27th can't come soon enough.
S3 doesn't need to continue S2. S2 has no relationship to S1 villains at all, was Vicki even mentioned this season? You have a lot of choices about Harvey and he doesn't even show up.
Everyone's hyped for the finale being fairly different depending on our choices, and here I am thinking that unless episode 5 ends the same way for everybody, for example Joker ending in Arkham, the possibility of S3 is going to be extremly low.
Harvey is locked up and Vicki is MIA. But if Telltale keeps John as Batman's vigilante friend till the end it would be strange for him not to be in S3. The only options Telltale would have at this point is: 1.Make John Batman's enemy at the end no matter what or 2.Not contuing with S3.
S3 doesn't need to continue S2. S2 has no relationship to S1 villains at all, was Vicki even mentioned this season? You have a lot of choices about Harvey and he doesn't even show up.
Or they could continue with Season 3 with John as a friend,i know you say that because of ANF but there's only two different path we could see John make some appearances in season 3.
Harvey is locked up and Vicki is MIA. But if Telltale keeps John as Batman's vigilante friend till the end it would be strange for him not t… moreo be in S3. The only options Telltale would have at this point is: 1.Make John Batman's enemy at the end no matter what or 2.Not contuing with S3.
Or 3. Continue with the series knowing that the entire legacy of the series rides on the fulfillment, continuation, and attention to the previous events/choices the individual players have experienced.
It could be done, if enough work was put into it...
Harvey is locked up and Vicki is MIA. But if Telltale keeps John as Batman's vigilante friend till the end it would be strange for him not t… moreo be in S3. The only options Telltale would have at this point is: 1.Make John Batman's enemy at the end no matter what or 2.Not contuing with S3.
Does anyone really believe Batman and John will end up as friends? He blew up a bridge killing people, doesn't matter if he wants to help or not, he needs to go to Arkham. Even the screen image for Episode 5 shows Batman fighting John so John would NEVER end up as Robin for future Batman games.
Harvey is locked up and Vicki is MIA. But if Telltale keeps John as Batman's vigilante friend till the end it would be strange for him not t… moreo be in S3. The only options Telltale would have at this point is: 1.Make John Batman's enemy at the end no matter what or 2.Not contuing with S3.
Maybe not as a friend but as an ally ? I don't know we'll see,i just think John is really interesting maybe he'll try to help us and in exchange we let him free,Arkham is not going to help him at all in fact it's just going to make him a villain.
Does anyone really believe Batman and John will end up as friends? He blew up a bridge killing people, doesn't matter if he wants to help or… more not, he needs to go to Arkham. Even the screen image for Episode 5 shows Batman fighting John so John would NEVER end up as Robin for future Batman games.
They would have to make two different S3's. For those that had John as a friend and those that had him as a foe. Unless you mean that he would just show up for a couple minutes and then just disappear for the rest of the season. I can't picture it happening, not with how much he seemes to be "attached" to Bruce.
I didn't play ANF, I lost interest in TWD after I found out that we will play as Clementine in S2.
Or they could continue with Season 3 with John as a friend,i know you say that because of ANF but there's only two different path we could see John make some appearances in season 3.
For those that had John as a friend and those that had him as a foe. Unless you mean that he would just show up for a couple minutes and then just disappear for the rest of the season. I can't picture it happening, not with how much he seemes to be "attached" to Bruce
Batman is one of their best series right now if they put enough work they could do it.
They would have to make two different S3's. For those that had John as a friend and those that had him as a foe. Unless you mean that he wou… moreld just show up for a couple minutes and then just disappear for the rest of the season. I can't picture it happening, not with how much he seemes to be "attached" to Bruce.
I didn't play ANF, I lost interest in TWD after I found out that we will play as Clementine in S2.
I agree with you. Yet a lot of people on this forum seem to believe that John and Bruce can remain best friends. Why, I do not know but I remember the same thing happened with Handsome Jack in TfTB. I couldn't understand that either.
Does anyone really believe Batman and John will end up as friends? He blew up a bridge killing people, doesn't matter if he wants to help or… more not, he needs to go to Arkham. Even the screen image for Episode 5 shows Batman fighting John so John would NEVER end up as Robin for future Batman games.
How can Batman let the unstable man, who is able to kill people without remorse, run free on the streets, even IF he would do that for a noble cause (which I doubt honestly)? If Bruce will be cooperating with John, this will be only because it will be his best chance to secure the safety of Gotham's citizens, but after that John needs to be taken care of.
Just look at how Bruce reacted to the crimes which his father commited... Even when Bruce himself had no option to prevent what happened then, he still feels responsible only because he is the son of Thomas. What if John will kill innocent people when he would try to 'help' Batman? How Bruce would react to that?
I think in the vigilante path John will start as a hero wannabe, just to end up as a bigger thread to the people than anyone else (including the Agency and Waller).
Well I just replayed episode 4 to get the villain route as well so I can play both on the 27th. I gotta say the vigilante route feels much more natural and compelling given the friendship and admiration John has shown Bruce throughout the season. It was a pretty extreme shift for him to go full Joker just because Bruce said he couldn't trust him. But hey I guess we will see how it plays out soon.
Oh I do understand why they like him. They see John as an innocent puppy who they want to protect and just forget they are playing as the protector of Gotham. But not because players want it it needs to happen.
I'm starting to doubt that last thing though since they are going to add Frank to Ep 5 just because of some wackos around here saying they love him. AHH BUT WHEN I ASK FOR SELINA CAT NO MODERATOR COMES RUNNING TO ME SAYING "LET'S ADD A KITTEN AVATAR".
I agree with you. Yet a lot of people on this forum seem to believe that John and Bruce can remain best friends. Why, I do not know but I remember the same thing happened with Handsome Jack in TfTB. I couldn't understand that either.
Everyone's hyped for the finale being fairly different depending on our choices, and here I am thinking that unless episode 5 ends the same way for everybody, for example Joker ending in Arkham, the possibility of S3 is going to be extremly low.
It is always good to have a backup plan (like the alternative playtrough)
In my case I am betting everything on the villain John. Stakes will be higher, because if I will 'lose' because of this decision then I do not have an alternate playtrough ready to load.
I couldn’t go with the vigilante path because I fear that this batarang which Batman may let John keep to himself may in the end be thrown at the back of someone important to Bruce... Of course villain route may became worse scenario than that, but we will see...
Well I just replayed episode 4 to get the villain route as well so I can play both on the 27th. I gotta say the vigilante route feels much m… moreore natural and compelling given the friendship and admiration John has shown Bruce throughout the season. It was a pretty extreme shift for him to go full Joker just because Bruce said he couldn't trust him. But hey I guess we will see how it plays out soon.
So, Telltale was playing the long game with the misdirection, making us think that John Doe/Joker was gonna be the main focus of the Season, when the whole time, it was teasing a Frank/Robin origin story all along.
You guys think Eli or Mori will have an appearance? If telltale hasnt forgotten about them, of course. Another thing I wonder is what would Selina look like with her hair down
I dont think Eli would really matter, but Im disappointed Mori seemingly disappeared after ep 1. Like we stole his usb and he was all "I DONT FORGET WAYNE! ILL GET YOU!"
You guys think Eli or Mori will have an appearance? If telltale hasnt forgotten about them, of course. Another thing I wonder is what would Selina look like with her hair down
Guys, I just walked into a spoiler for episode 5. I won’t say what it is, but it involves Frank and it looks like it might start another Kenny vs Jane forum war.
Guys, I just walked into a spoiler for episode 5. I won’t say what it is, but it involves Frank and it looks like it might start another Kenny vs Jane forum war.
Hope I'm not the only one who expects the words "one or two cameos" to be characters from previous seasons that were relevant. Like maybe seeing Harvey after John gets sent to Arkham or something like that.
To be fair, Frank is always a good option. We need his backstory, after all. But I really think it's something else.
The vagueness of the comment throws me off too. What would be considered a "cameo"? Someone not yet introduced? A returning character of a previous season? Someone who hasn't appeared in a while (Gordon)?
So basically Telltale made the entire Episode 5... and when they heard of this suddenly rise of love for Frank they threw the script to the trash and started writing everything again to involve Frank?
Guys, I just walked into a spoiler for episode 5. I won’t say what it is, but it involves Frank and it looks like it might start another Kenny vs Jane forum war.
Cameo could be a character not introduced yet but from Batman universe, like I don't know, Huntress, Deathstroke, etc.
If is someone from last season it has to be Harvey or Oswald. Frank would be a shitty cameo, people are all "yay praise the meme Frank" but then you will see Poogers making 500 post about how full of plot holes Season 2 is because they spend more time putting Frank in Ep 5 instead of explaining those plotholes.
Hope I'm not the only one who expects the words "one or two cameos" to be characters from previous seasons that were relevant. Like maybe se… moreeing Harvey after John gets sent to Arkham or something like that.
To be fair, Frank is always a good option. We need his backstory, after all. But I really think it's something else.
The vagueness of the comment throws me off too. What would be considered a "cameo"? Someone not yet introduced? A returning character of a previous season? Someone who hasn't appeared in a while (Gordon)?
Horrifically though they'll probably throw Frank in somewhere as a joke if they do a season 3. As for more realistic cameo predictions I reckon it could be someone we haven't seen before to hint at things to come similar to what they did last season with Joker.
Hope I'm not the only one who expects the words "one or two cameos" to be characters from previous seasons that were relevant. Like maybe se… moreeing Harvey after John gets sent to Arkham or something like that.
To be fair, Frank is always a good option. We need his backstory, after all. But I really think it's something else.
The vagueness of the comment throws me off too. What would be considered a "cameo"? Someone not yet introduced? A returning character of a previous season? Someone who hasn't appeared in a while (Gordon)?
Yeah all my stakes are in the vigilante route because that's my actual canon game. I'm not trying to see which is better and stick to that one, I'll always consider vigilante my canon story. Just want to play through both after reading the blog post, seems like there will be some insane differences ala Rodrik vs Asher in episode 5 of Game of Thrones.
That being said I can practically guarantee that the villain route is more dangerous. The game says that John has vowed to be your mortal enemy and Telltale said that John is committed to destroying your life and making you suffer. Villain Joker is going to be one scary mofo. At least if he's a vigilante he still respects Bruce and can possibly be reasoned with, plus his attention will be focused on Waller and the Suicide Squad as opposed to Bruce's loved ones.
It is always good to have a backup plan (like the alternative playtrough)
In my case I am betting everything on the villain John. Stake… mores will be higher, because if I will 'lose' because of this decision then I do not have an alternate playtrough ready to load.
I couldn’t go with the vigilante path because I fear that this batarang which Batman may let John keep to himself may in the end be thrown at the back of someone important to Bruce... Of course villain route may became worse scenario than that, but we will see...
If you threatened Mori in episode 1 then no matter what ending you get he pops out at the very end and shoots Bruce in the eyeball and says "take that!" and then the credits roll.
I dont think Eli would really matter, but Im disappointed Mori seemingly disappeared after ep 1. Like we stole his usb and he was all "I DONT FORGET WAYNE! ILL GET YOU!"
I guess he forgot ;'(
So basically Telltale made the entire Episode 5... and when they heard of this suddenly rise of love for Frank they threw the script to the trash and started writing everything again to involve Frank?
Comments
Not to get into a debate here about ANF in Batman waiting thread, but the 42 different starting points was under the post talking about how saves from S1 and S2 would be transferred to S3, so obviously everyone reading at the time was going to think "42 starting points" was exactly what it was saying, not 42 clusters.
The entire system and the marketing surrounding it was still incredibly deceptive and misleading. It determined what kind of player you were and what kind of decisions your Clem made and why, yet none of it ended up making any sort of difference? The implication was that it would drastically change how Clem interacted in your game but it absolutely didn't.
Hope Episode 5 just doesn’t revolve around The Joker.
Looks like vigilante John might take Batman to a grey area.
I hope u guys do the same for clem and our favorite wolf
FRANK HYPE!!!!!!!
Everyone's hyped for the finale being fairly different depending on our choices, and here I am thinking that unless episode 5 ends the same way for everybody, for example Joker ending in Arkham, the possibility of S3 is going to be extremly low.
Wow... I mean, when we got to see that Telltale made ballsy decision to create such a huge divergence with John becoming Vigilante / Villain, I was hoping that we'd get two different plot lines for the finale (going after Joker & Harley / going after Waller)
I kinda hoped for it, but being a realist I didn't think that would ACTUALLY happen. I mean, bravo Telltale for stepping up your game big time! I guess it won't be a very long episode since developing 2in1 kind of episode would extend the development time significantly, but it's still a welcome surprise IMO. March 27th can't come soon enough.
S3 doesn't need to continue S2. S2 has no relationship to S1 villains at all, was Vicki even mentioned this season? You have a lot of choices about Harvey and he doesn't even show up.
Harvey is locked up and Vicki is MIA. But if Telltale keeps John as Batman's vigilante friend till the end it would be strange for him not to be in S3. The only options Telltale would have at this point is: 1.Make John Batman's enemy at the end no matter what or 2.Not contuing with S3.
Or they could continue with Season 3 with John as a friend,i know you say that because of ANF but there's only two different path we could see John make some appearances in season 3.
Or 3. Continue with the series knowing that the entire legacy of the series rides on the fulfillment, continuation, and attention to the previous events/choices the individual players have experienced.
It could be done, if enough work was put into it...
Does anyone really believe Batman and John will end up as friends? He blew up a bridge killing people, doesn't matter if he wants to help or not, he needs to go to Arkham. Even the screen image for Episode 5 shows Batman fighting John so John would NEVER end up as Robin for future Batman games.
Maybe not as a friend but as an ally ? I don't know we'll see,i just think John is really interesting maybe he'll try to help us and in exchange we let him free,Arkham is not going to help him at all in fact it's just going to make him a villain.
They would have to make two different S3's. For those that had John as a friend and those that had him as a foe. Unless you mean that he would just show up for a couple minutes and then just disappear for the rest of the season. I can't picture it happening, not with how much he seemes to be "attached" to Bruce.
I didn't play ANF, I lost interest in TWD after I found out that we will play as Clementine in S2.
Batman is one of their best series right now if they put enough work they could do it.
Oh and don't play ANF it's not really worth it..
I agree with you. Yet a lot of people on this forum seem to believe that John and Bruce can remain best friends. Why, I do not know but I remember the same thing happened with Handsome Jack in TfTB. I couldn't understand that either.
How can Batman let the unstable man, who is able to kill people without remorse, run free on the streets, even IF he would do that for a noble cause (which I doubt honestly)? If Bruce will be cooperating with John, this will be only because it will be his best chance to secure the safety of Gotham's citizens, but after that John needs to be taken care of.
Just look at how Bruce reacted to the crimes which his father commited... Even when Bruce himself had no option to prevent what happened then, he still feels responsible only because he is the son of Thomas. What if John will kill innocent people when he would try to 'help' Batman? How Bruce would react to that?
I think in the vigilante path John will start as a hero wannabe, just to end up as a bigger thread to the people than anyone else (including the Agency and Waller).
Well I just replayed episode 4 to get the villain route as well so I can play both on the 27th. I gotta say the vigilante route feels much more natural and compelling given the friendship and admiration John has shown Bruce throughout the season. It was a pretty extreme shift for him to go full Joker just because Bruce said he couldn't trust him. But hey I guess we will see how it plays out soon.
Oh I do understand why they like him. They see John as an innocent puppy who they want to protect and just forget they are playing as the protector of Gotham. But not because players want it it needs to happen.
I'm starting to doubt that last thing though since they are going to add Frank to Ep 5 just because of some wackos around here saying they love him. AHH BUT WHEN I ASK FOR SELINA CAT NO MODERATOR COMES RUNNING TO ME SAYING "LET'S ADD A KITTEN AVATAR".
I mean, that didn't stop A New Frontier...
It is always good to have a backup plan (like the alternative playtrough)
In my case I am betting everything on the villain John. Stakes will be higher, because if I will 'lose' because of this decision then I do not have an alternate playtrough ready to load.
I couldn’t go with the vigilante path because I fear that this batarang which Batman may let John keep to himself may in the end be thrown at the back of someone important to Bruce... Of course villain route may became worse scenario than that, but we will see...
What do you mean?
Edit: Is it about TWD S2 having different endings and the fact that despite that it was continued in ANF.
YO EVERYONE SEE THE NEW SCREENSHOT???
So, Telltale was playing the long game with the misdirection, making us think that John Doe/Joker was gonna be the main focus of the Season, when the whole time, it was teasing a Frank/Robin origin story all along.
Talk about a curveball!
You guys think Eli or Mori will have an appearance? If telltale hasnt forgotten about them, of course. Another thing I wonder is what would Selina look like with her hair down
"He's the hero Gotham deserves. but not the one it needs right now..."
Oh wait, actually it needs him especially now, when the hype train has just started...
I dont think Eli would really matter, but Im disappointed Mori seemingly disappeared after ep 1. Like we stole his usb and he was all "I DONT FORGET WAYNE! ILL GET YOU!"
I guess he forgot ;'(
Guys, I just walked into a spoiler for episode 5. I won’t say what it is, but it involves Frank and it looks like it might start another Kenny vs Jane forum war.
They need to kill Frank off. He is not a important character.
Hope I'm not the only one who expects the words "one or two cameos" to be characters from previous seasons that were relevant. Like maybe seeing Harvey after John gets sent to Arkham or something like that.
To be fair, Frank is always a good option. We need his backstory, after all. But I really think it's something else.
The vagueness of the comment throws me off too. What would be considered a "cameo"? Someone not yet introduced? A returning character of a previous season? Someone who hasn't appeared in a while (Gordon)?
So basically Telltale made the entire Episode 5... and when they heard of this suddenly rise of love for Frank they threw the script to the trash and started writing everything again to involve Frank?
...We aren't gonna have to choose between our two pals Frank and John Doe, are we...?
I hope they don’t forget about Riddler's death. It was probably Waller though.
Cameo could be a character not introduced yet but from Batman universe, like I don't know, Huntress, Deathstroke, etc.
If is someone from last season it has to be Harvey or Oswald. Frank would be a shitty cameo, people are all "yay praise the meme Frank" but then you will see Poogers making 500 post about how full of plot holes Season 2 is because they spend more time putting Frank in Ep 5 instead of explaining those plotholes.
Horrifically though they'll probably throw Frank in somewhere as a joke if they do a season 3. As for more realistic cameo predictions I reckon it could be someone we haven't seen before to hint at things to come similar to what they did last season with Joker.
Anything goes!
Yeah all my stakes are in the vigilante route because that's my actual canon game. I'm not trying to see which is better and stick to that one, I'll always consider vigilante my canon story. Just want to play through both after reading the blog post, seems like there will be some insane differences ala Rodrik vs Asher in episode 5 of Game of Thrones.
That being said I can practically guarantee that the villain route is more dangerous. The game says that John has vowed to be your mortal enemy and Telltale said that John is committed to destroying your life and making you suffer. Villain Joker is going to be one scary mofo. At least if he's a vigilante he still respects Bruce and can possibly be reasoned with, plus his attention will be focused on Waller and the Suicide Squad as opposed to Bruce's loved ones.
If you threatened Mori in episode 1 then no matter what ending you get he pops out at the very end and shoots Bruce in the eyeball and says "take that!" and then the credits roll.
They mentioned the possibility of Frank returning way back before episode 2 released.