I feel a similar way. I really liked Jane and her character dynamics with Clementine. But Kenny is one of the best characters of all time in my opinion. He is up there with the best on-screen characters I have seen like Walter White and Dexter Morgan. If there was a way that both could have survived, I would have chosen it.
I've noticed that a lot of people love one and hate the other. I loved both of them. The season 2 finale hit me hard. Here is my philosophy on this topic.
I will never understand the people who say they shot him because he grieving and in a bad place. You don't just put down your friends like a rabid dog, you support them and help them heal.
I chose to shoot Kenny. While I didn't believe he was a monster, the poor man just couldn't handle heartbreak (or really any sort of intense… more emotion) and the apocalypse was obviously never going to let up on him, so in a way I ended up killing him out of mercy.
I didn't stay with Jane though cause fuck that bitch
I could have sworn we talked about that before...I certainly made the connection.
Otherwise, what really was the point of the dog scene? Oh, right, the dumb "bitten" plotline.
You could also view it in another context: if clem left the dog without mercy killing it, her "putting down" kenny is actually like catharsis
I think someone mentioned there's parallels with putting down the dog in episode one.
Oh, whaddya know! I have occasionally viewed shooting Kenny as putting down a an extremely sick dog your friend owned for a good while.
Ultimately the player is forced to decide on whether or not they should put both of them down for being detrimental to the group
Of course, the "group" is just clem, jane and a baby. And come season 3, they decide Jane is an unfit "caregiver" too, so... but that's hindsight for you. Or retcons. Who knows what they had planned? Probably nothing at the time.
Clem still had the gun at that point IIRC. It wouldn't have been a good idea for Jane to continue pestering Clem after killing her old friend while Clem had a firearm. If I was given the option on my first playthrough I might've chosen to shoot her myself.
Easy fix: have her point the gun at Jane if she tries to follow. Or maybe give you the option to shoot her, too. Point is that Jane's endings suck compared to Kenny's.
I think someone mentioned there's parallels with putting down the dog in episode one.
That's a nice analogy. I also would compare Ke… morenny to Ben in some ways. Both had the best interests of their groups at heart but the two were in their own ways mentally unprepared for the hardships that came with the ZA. Ultimately the player is forced to decide on whether or not they should put both of them down for being detrimental to the group and if spared they can get pretty anticlimactic deaths afterwards.
It's not a bad ending, but the reason I don't like it is simply because Jane relents way too easy. She goes through all that trouble just to let Clem walk off? WHAT??! It's really dumb.
Clem still had the gun at that point IIRC. It wouldn't have been a good idea for Jane to continue pestering Clem after killing her old friend while Clem had a firearm. If I was given the option on my first playthrough I might've chosen to shoot her myself.
And the group ruined Kenny the second they turned up at the lodge, got him and his girlfriend taken hostage and everything else that followed. I disagree that he soley destroyed the group of course. He didn’t help things. But neither did the rest.
Ps. Couldn’t you have at least just said you shot Kenny and leave it at that instead of then saying “it was a shame i couldn’t kill him sooner” which is basically what you said
It is what I said because it is what I honestly feel. It's pretty clear to me that had Kenny died to that walker midway through No Going Back the group would've ended up united at Howe's.
Completely ignoring that the cabin group was invited inside, that Alvin warns Kenny that they are on the run and that Clem herself has the option to warn Walter about it and he dismisses it, my point is that while the cabin group brought problems to Kenny due to an accident, a miscalculation on how far Carver was from them (they were expecting to ride off in the morning), Kenny has a clear systematic problem within his own personality that leads him to antagonize every single human he meets with that is not in 100% agreement with him. And it was only getting worse as time passed by.
I really don't feel like going on a pages long argument again, so sorry if I don't reply.
And the group ruined Kenny the second they turned up at the lodge, got him and his girlfriend taken hostage and everything else that followe… mored. I disagree that he soley destroyed the group of course. He didn’t help things. But neither did the rest.
Ps. Couldn’t you have at least just said you shot Kenny and leave it at that instead of then saying “it was a shame i couldn’t kill him sooner” which is basically what you said
It is what I said because it is what I honestly feel. It's pretty clear to me that had Kenny died to that walker midway through No Going Bac… morek the group would've ended up united at Howe's.
Completely ignoring that the cabin group was invited inside, that Alvin warns Kenny that they are on the run and that Clem herself has the option to warn Walter about it and he dismisses it, my point is that while the cabin group brought problems to Kenny due to an accident, a miscalculation on how far Carver was from them (they were expecting to ride off in the morning), Kenny has a clear systematic problem within his own personality that leads him to antagonize every single human he meets with that is not in 100% agreement with him. And it was only getting worse as time passed by.
I really don't feel like going on a pages long argument again, so sorry if I don't reply.
It's not that he was grieving that made me shoot him it was that he handled grief very poorly. He just didn't have enough emotional management skills to control himself when things went awry, and things were going to go wrong all the time in the apocalypse. I would've been completely willing to help him heal had I been sure his mental state wouldn't continue to shatter the moment things inevitably went south. That doesn't mean I thought he was a monster just that he was a broken man who couldn't let go of pain.
I will never understand the people who say they shot him because he grieving and in a bad place. You don't just put down your friends like a rabid dog, you support them and help them heal.
It's not that he was grieving that made me shoot him it was that he handled grief very poorly. He just didn't have enough emotional manageme… morent skills to control himself when things went awry, and things were going to go wrong all the time in the apocalypse. I would've been completely willing to help him heal had I been sure his mental state wouldn't continue to shatter the moment things inevitably went south. That doesn't mean I thought he was a monster just that he was a broken man who couldn't let go of pain.
Of course, the "group" is just clem, jane and a baby.
True but it's still technically a group nonetheless.
And come season 3, they decide Jane is an unfit "caregiver" too, so...
I mean, given her detachment, she kinda was. I don't know if that means her suicide was in character though.
Who knows what they had planned? Probably nothing at the time
Definitely had nothing planned at the time.
Easy fix: have her point the gun at Jane if she tries to follow. Or maybe give you the option to shoot her, too.
That'd be fine, but I don't feel like it's that big of a flaw. Jane knew Clem had a gun so I don't think it would've been necessary for Clem to have had it drawn. It would've been nice to have the option to shoot her but it's not something I'm upset over not having.
Could also be that Jane just understood that she ruined the trust between them and any attempt to reconcile wouldn't have worked after what she had done.
Point is that Jane's endings suck compared to Kenny's.
Ultimately the player is forced to decide on whether or not they should put both of them down for being detrimental to the group
Of … morecourse, the "group" is just clem, jane and a baby. And come season 3, they decide Jane is an unfit "caregiver" too, so... but that's hindsight for you. Or retcons. Who knows what they had planned? Probably nothing at the time.
Clem still had the gun at that point IIRC. It wouldn't have been a good idea for Jane to continue pestering Clem after killing her old friend while Clem had a firearm. If I was given the option on my first playthrough I might've chosen to shoot her myself.
Easy fix: have her point the gun at Jane if she tries to follow. Or maybe give you the option to shoot her, too. Point is that Jane's endings suck compared to Kenny's.
Kenny doesn’t trust anyone and rightfully so. The only reason he settled down is the moment he saw Clem. He only trusts her obviously thanks to his time before with her and through knowing Lee.
Kenny wanted the cabin crew to go in the morning and they were going to anyway. No one knew how close Carver was behind and i guess they all felt they were safe, only Clem saw them through the binoculars and neither seemed to take what she saw seriously.
The point is, indirectly caused, the cabin group did get Kenny and Sarita taken hostage, even Sarita says in Ep 3 “Kenny and i are only here because of you people” and all that followed was again indirectly caused by members of the cabin group, Luke got caught, Kenny got his eye bashed in and wouldn’t have happened if Luke had just stayed where he was. I could go on but i will spare the essay.
Anyway I wasn’t intending a long post either, i just didn’t think the added thing you said was necessary on this occasion when all the OP’s question was who did you choose. I just didn’t like the added negativity behind your choice. I would have even said the same thing if it was killing Jane
It is what I said because it is what I honestly feel. It's pretty clear to me that had Kenny died to that walker midway through No Going Bac… morek the group would've ended up united at Howe's.
Completely ignoring that the cabin group was invited inside, that Alvin warns Kenny that they are on the run and that Clem herself has the option to warn Walter about it and he dismisses it, my point is that while the cabin group brought problems to Kenny due to an accident, a miscalculation on how far Carver was from them (they were expecting to ride off in the morning), Kenny has a clear systematic problem within his own personality that leads him to antagonize every single human he meets with that is not in 100% agreement with him. And it was only getting worse as time passed by.
I really don't feel like going on a pages long argument again, so sorry if I don't reply.
It's not that he was grieving that made me shoot him it was that he handled grief very poorly. He just didn't have enough emotional manageme… morent skills to control himself when things went awry, and things were going to go wrong all the time in the apocalypse. I would've been completely willing to help him heal had I been sure his mental state wouldn't continue to shatter the moment things inevitably went south. That doesn't mean I thought he was a monster just that he was a broken man who couldn't let go of pain.
To be fair, they hadn't eaten yet iirc and Alvin was just concerned for Rebecca's condition after constantly moving the last five or so days.
And we never really follow up on how Carlos's conversation with Luke went, if it even happened. And knowing him, I assume he would've agreed with Carlos.
She made it seem like it was in self-defense in the moment(which it technically was) and he could've approached that matter a teeny bit better than he did.
I will never understand the people who say they shot him because he grieving and in a bad place. You don't just put down your friends like a rabid dog, you support them and help them heal.
Yes he acknowledged what happened and as always apologised but of course it’s never enough for the haters to accept that some people struggle to change. Point is, he had come back from a dark place
Except that Larry was beyond saving and taking a DANGEROUS risk to try and help someone who would at some point turn is very stupid. Larry wouldn’t support or try to help you if it was the other way around
Yes he acknowledged what happened and as always apologised but of course it’s never enough for the haters to accept that some people struggle to change. Point is, he had come back from a dark place
You're being intellectually dishonest by comparing the two situations. Larry had a massive heart attack and if you know anything about first aid then you'd know there's no recovering from that without medical attention and defibrillator, neither of which were available. He was dead no matter what and would have reanimated and killed everyone. Kenny was very much alive and was only fighting Jane because she deliberately orchestrated a deadly situation by pretending a baby was dead. You just hate Kenny anyways I don't know why I even bothered responding to you.
Both of his flashbacks were relatively pleasant scenes for Kenny (at least before the crash.) There wasn't really anything happening in those flashbacks that could trigger his PTSD. He's not a monster but time and time again when shit hit the fan in Season 2 he lost his cool very quickly. It's nice to know that everything turned out okay during the time he spent with Clem and AJ in the Kenny ending but when he was about to murder Jane I just wasn't willing to take that risk. I don't mean to argue just giving my reasoning as to why I shot him.
You did not pay much attention to the game, Larry was not dead and he was not even a walker, his mouth clearly appears moving, and if that mouth movement was a transformation, it would not be because it takes time to become a walker. I know u didnt help Lilly, cuz you are a Kenny's fan boy, and did not see the mouth movement. In fact, TWD is a fictional work, and certainly Larry's heart condition was just for us to see how trash Kenny is, egoist who only thinks about him and his family. In S1EP5 if you do not stay on Kenny's side, he does not help Lee to rescue Clementine. SELFISH
You're being intellectually dishonest by comparing the two situations. Larry had a massive heart attack and if you know anything about first… more aid then you'd know there's no recovering from that without medical attention and defibrillator, neither of which were available. He was dead no matter what and would have reanimated and killed everyone. Kenny was very much alive and was only fighting Jane because she deliberately orchestrated a deadly situation by pretending a baby was dead. You just hate Kenny anyways I don't know why I even bothered responding to you.
You did not pay much attention to the game, Larry was not dead and he was not even a walker, his mouth clearly appears moving, and if that m… moreouth movement was a transformation, it would not be because it takes time to become a walker. I know u didnt help Lilly, cuz you are a Kenny's fan boy, and did not see the mouth movement. In fact, TWD is a fictional work, and certainly Larry's heart condition was just for us to see how trash Kenny is, egoist who only thinks about him and his family. In S1EP5 if you do not stay on Kenny's side, he does not help Lee to rescue Clementine. SELFISH
Comments
I feel a similar way. I really liked Jane and her character dynamics with Clementine. But Kenny is one of the best characters of all time in my opinion. He is up there with the best on-screen characters I have seen like Walter White and Dexter Morgan. If there was a way that both could have survived, I would have chosen it.
I will never understand the people who say they shot him because he grieving and in a bad place. You don't just put down your friends like a rabid dog, you support them and help them heal.
I could have sworn we talked about that before...I certainly made the connection.
Otherwise, what really was the point of the dog scene? Oh, right, the dumb "bitten" plotline.
You could also view it in another context: if clem left the dog without mercy killing it, her "putting down" kenny is actually like catharsis
It was a bit poorly written, I just went back and fixed and addded to it.
Of course, the "group" is just clem, jane and a baby. And come season 3, they decide Jane is an unfit "caregiver" too, so... but that's hindsight for you. Or retcons. Who knows what they had planned? Probably nothing at the time.
Easy fix: have her point the gun at Jane if she tries to follow. Or maybe give you the option to shoot her, too. Point is that Jane's endings suck compared to Kenny's.
You rewound and had both killed without having the emotional feels of the Wellington ending? Ugh
And the group ruined Kenny the second they turned up at the lodge, got him and his girlfriend taken hostage and everything else that followed. I disagree that he soley destroyed the group of course. He didn’t help things. But neither did the rest.
Ps. Couldn’t you have at least just said you shot Kenny and leave it at that instead of then saying “it was a shame i couldn’t kill him sooner” which is basically what you said
It is what I said because it is what I honestly feel. It's pretty clear to me that had Kenny died to that walker midway through No Going Back the group would've ended up united at Howe's.
Completely ignoring that the cabin group was invited inside, that Alvin warns Kenny that they are on the run and that Clem herself has the option to warn Walter about it and he dismisses it, my point is that while the cabin group brought problems to Kenny due to an accident, a miscalculation on how far Carver was from them (they were expecting to ride off in the morning), Kenny has a clear systematic problem within his own personality that leads him to antagonize every single human he meets with that is not in 100% agreement with him. And it was only getting worse as time passed by.
I really don't feel like going on a pages long argument again, so sorry if I don't reply.
Clem has spoken.
Woah, what is with AJ's face there? It's kinda creeping me out.
Nah, I skimmed a video of that at the time and later got that on my second playthrough.
Also, Carlos tries to convince Alvin and Luke that they should leave when Clementine tells them about the lights/flames.
That line(or rather, the phrasing of it) bothers me.
It looks like that text box(and I do mean box) was poorly editted in.
It's not that he was grieving that made me shoot him it was that he handled grief very poorly. He just didn't have enough emotional management skills to control himself when things went awry, and things were going to go wrong all the time in the apocalypse. I would've been completely willing to help him heal had I been sure his mental state wouldn't continue to shatter the moment things inevitably went south. That doesn't mean I thought he was a monster just that he was a broken man who couldn't let go of pain.
Well that and he was literally in the middle of rabidly killing someone.
True but it's still technically a group nonetheless.
I mean, given her detachment, she kinda was. I don't know if that means her suicide was in character though.
Definitely had nothing planned at the time.
That'd be fine, but I don't feel like it's that big of a flaw. Jane knew Clem had a gun so I don't think it would've been necessary for Clem to have had it drawn. It would've been nice to have the option to shoot her but it's not something I'm upset over not having.
Could also be that Jane just understood that she ruined the trust between them and any attempt to reconcile wouldn't have worked after what she had done.
Agreed.
Kenny doesn’t trust anyone and rightfully so. The only reason he settled down is the moment he saw Clem. He only trusts her obviously thanks to his time before with her and through knowing Lee.
Kenny wanted the cabin crew to go in the morning and they were going to anyway. No one knew how close Carver was behind and i guess they all felt they were safe, only Clem saw them through the binoculars and neither seemed to take what she saw seriously.
The point is, indirectly caused, the cabin group did get Kenny and Sarita taken hostage, even Sarita says in Ep 3 “Kenny and i are only here because of you people” and all that followed was again indirectly caused by members of the cabin group, Luke got caught, Kenny got his eye bashed in and wouldn’t have happened if Luke had just stayed where he was. I could go on but i will spare the essay.
Anyway I wasn’t intending a long post either, i just didn’t think the added thing you said was necessary on this occasion when all the OP’s question was who did you choose. I just didn’t like the added negativity behind your choice. I would have even said the same thing if it was killing Jane
Well neither listened did they? Idiots lol
Fuck Jane! The only monster was Jane
Well Season 3 showed just how well he handled his emotional state. It proved he once again came back from a bad place in his mind.
To be fair, they hadn't eaten yet iirc and Alvin was just concerned for Rebecca's condition after constantly moving the last five or so days.
And we never really follow up on how Carlos's conversation with Luke went, if it even happened. And knowing him, I assume he would've agreed with Carlos.
Yeah right, as if he didn't have a legitimate reason to attack her and as if Jane didn't fight back with equal deadly force.
And that's because he actually had time to just chill and let, on top of having recognized just how out of control he had gotten.
She made it seem like it was in self-defense in the moment(which it technically was) and he could've approached that matter a teeny bit better than he did.
Kenny kills Larry, I saw that support and help
Yes he acknowledged what happened and as always apologised but of course it’s never enough for the haters to accept that some people struggle to change. Point is, he had come back from a dark place
Except that Larry was beyond saving and taking a DANGEROUS risk to try and help someone who would at some point turn is very stupid. Larry wouldn’t support or try to help you if it was the other way around
Wisdom.
"was poorly editted in." lol couldn't refrain from using "poorly" to describe your feelings towards Jane could you
Oh, shuddup!
You're being intellectually dishonest by comparing the two situations. Larry had a massive heart attack and if you know anything about first aid then you'd know there's no recovering from that without medical attention and defibrillator, neither of which were available. He was dead no matter what and would have reanimated and killed everyone. Kenny was very much alive and was only fighting Jane because she deliberately orchestrated a deadly situation by pretending a baby was dead. You just hate Kenny anyways I don't know why I even bothered responding to you.
Um...you wanna clarify this?
Do'h, nevermind!
Fake
I don't know if you're joking but Clem can really say that.
I kinda wish it was.
I wish I wasn't.
Both of his flashbacks were relatively pleasant scenes for Kenny (at least before the crash.) There wasn't really anything happening in those flashbacks that could trigger his PTSD. He's not a monster but time and time again when shit hit the fan in Season 2 he lost his cool very quickly. It's nice to know that everything turned out okay during the time he spent with Clem and AJ in the Kenny ending but when he was about to murder Jane I just wasn't willing to take that risk. I don't mean to argue just giving my reasoning as to why I shot him.
You did not pay much attention to the game, Larry was not dead and he was not even a walker, his mouth clearly appears moving, and if that mouth movement was a transformation, it would not be because it takes time to become a walker. I know u didnt help Lilly, cuz you are a Kenny's fan boy, and did not see the mouth movement. In fact, TWD is a fictional work, and certainly Larry's heart condition was just for us to see how trash Kenny is, egoist who only thinks about him and his family. In S1EP5 if you do not stay on Kenny's side, he does not help Lee to rescue Clementine. SELFISH
Oh boy,here we go again.
It's amazing that people still talk about this years after,i hope we have more situations like this in The Final Season.