You all know my view on Lilly. I've NEVER once thought of any ill will towards that character. And with her back in TFS, as I mentioned in… more a previous post, I almost feel like Luke trying to bring back his father in Return of the Jedi.
SPOILER ALERT
Plus, near the end of the second episode, she can't seem to pull the trigger
That...
So what proof is there that she's a good person? You were nice to her in Season 1 and look where that got you, and in S4E2 she tried to kill Clem earlier and brought up Lee to taunt her but she makes a facial expression when she's pointing a gun at Clem and that makes her a good person?
Yes, you understand me! I liked Lilly from the beginning she is a good person she just needs to remind that! After what happened to her in S… more1 it's normal that she was going to break and do something stupid, sadly enough Carley was the one who had to pay her life with it. What we saw in eps 2 proofs that Lilly still is a good person but she struggles with it, I told her that I remembered her, accepted her help in the woods with Abel but I told Vi to shoot her so that was difficult and I told her that she couldn't shoot Clem because they are family, If you make the right choices I think that Lilly would sacrifice herself in the end to save Clem.
I just want to point out before I get started that in no way am I justifying anything Lilly has done in episode 2 or season 1.
I think Lilly is only acting ruthless, so it gets to a point where one day she thinks she is and is willing to do what needs to be done in the raiders eyes. Like that's her way of staying alive.
But when she sees Clementine again, for the first time in a long time, instead of constantly beating her until she says where the boarding school is, she helps her up (or can try) and has Abel stop hurting AJ.
She says that she doesn't blame Lee for kicking her out of the group for killing Carley/Doug and says she was clearly a threat to the group. So she's shown some regret over what she did.
Killing Mitch was just reflex, not on purpose. You can even see the shocked look on her face, that it was something she didn't mean to do - though it was still wrong regardless.
Near the end of the fight with the raiders, she's hesitant on shooting Clem and literally says "this should be easy." Lilly probably sees Clementine as that young girl from the Motor Inn. So when she says anything about Lee, I think that's Lilly's way of hurting Clem because she can't bring herself do it physically.
Who Lilly was in season 1 is probably still there, I can kinda see her getting a redemption arc and becoming an ally.
No, I'm not ignoring that. But now that she knows it's Clem, it will cause internal conflicts of practicality and loyalty. Somewhere along those lines.
Plus, near the end of the second episode, she can't seem to pull the trigger
So you gonna ignore where she had no problem pulling the trigger earlier just because of a facial expression?
But when she sees Clementine again, for the first time in a long time, instead of constantly beating her until she says where the boarding school is, she helps her up (or can try) and has Abel stop hurting AJ.
She saw an opportunity to manipulate Clem and it failed, she mocked Lee for his care for Clem and she tries to kill Clem after that.
She says that she doesn't blame Lee for kicking her out of the group for killing Carley/Doug and says she was clearly a threat to the group. So she's shown some regret over what she did.
She acknowledges what she did but in no way does it hint she regrets what she did, she didn't even remember Carley's name and I assume the same is for Doug.
Killing Mitch was just reflex, not on purpose. You can even see the shocked look on her face, that it was something she didn't mean to do - though it was still wrong regardless.
What did she think was gonna happen when she invaded the school in the hopes of kidnapping children? did she expect them to bow down to her like she expected Carley?
Near the end of the fight with the raiders, she's hesitant on shooting Clem and literally says "this should be easy." Lilly probably sees Clementine as that young girl from the Motor Inn. So when she says anything about Lee, I think that's Lilly's way of hurting Clem because she can't bring herself do it physically.
She tried killing Clem earlier, that one facial reaction shouldn't overlook her actions from earlier. She brought up Lee to taunt Clem, she showed earlier that she's capable of physically hurting Clem and besides if you don't kiss her ass in that scene, she tries to kill Clem like she did with Carley.
Who Lilly was in season 1 is probably still there, I can kinda see her getting a redemption arc and becoming an ally.
Season 1 Lilly has always been there, she has always been the same selfish murdering backstabbing bitch she was in Season 1. She threw her "redemption" out the window when she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable and in ruins which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids. The only people that can see a redemption arc is her fans.
I just want to point out before I get started that in no way am I justifying anything Lilly has done in episode 2 or season 1.
I think Li… morelly is only acting ruthless, so it gets to a point where one day she thinks she is and is willing to do what needs to be done in the raiders eyes. Like that's her way of staying alive.
But when she sees Clementine again, for the first time in a long time, instead of constantly beating her until she says where the boarding school is, she helps her up (or can try) and has Abel stop hurting AJ.
She says that she doesn't blame Lee for kicking her out of the group for killing Carley/Doug and says she was clearly a threat to the group. So she's shown some regret over what she did.
Killing Mitch was just reflex, not on purpose. You can even see the shocked look on her face, that it was something she didn't mean to do - though it was still wrong regardless.
Near the end of the fight with the raiders, … [view original content]
No, I'm not ignoring that. But now that she knows it's Clem, it will cause internal conflicts of practicality and loyalty. Somewhere along those lines.
Don’t forget she even tells her that Lee should have abandoned Clem just moments after recognizing her. Only a heartless bitch could say something like that to a kid.
Be that as it may, I don't expect Lilly to redeem with a snap of fingers. Depending on the players choice, or lack in some other players instances. Me, I know it's a long shot, but I'm sticking with my guns and believing Lilly will come around. I don't know how, I just got a feeling. To any and all who disagree, let her die if she's that far gone, but I've waited for Lilly's return for a long time, and I believe her character is due.
The most I can see her doing is not directly killing her or AJ. Maybe convincing one of her higher ups to not kill Clementine too. At the same I don’t see Lilly shooting her team and getting herself killed to save them. I 100% see her killing another character next episode, like Omar or Louis.
Her idea of doing something good for clem would be sparing her for the sake of the war effort, not so she can go back to the school.
Be that as it may, I don't expect Lilly to redeem with a snap of fingers. Depending on the players choice, or lack in some other players in… morestances. Me, I know it's a long shot, but I'm sticking with my guns and believing Lilly will come around. I don't know how, I just got a feeling. To any and all who disagree, let her die if she's that far gone, but I've waited for Lilly's return for a long time, and I believe her character is due.
The most I can see her doing is not directly killing her or AJ. Maybe convincing one of her higher ups to not kill Clementine too. At the sa… moreme I don’t see Lilly shooting her team and getting herself killed to save them. I 100% see her killing another character next episode, like Omar or Louis.
Her idea of doing something good for clem would be sparing her for the sake of the war effort, not so she can go back to the school.
Your whole reasoning for her to get a redemption arc is based on a facial expression due to being hesitant to shoot you and even with that, she pulls the trigger if you don't kiss her ass after she attacks your home just like she did with Carley. Let's recap what she did, she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids, whether you were nice or not changes nothing because she still does the same thing, a facial expression doesn't mean shit if she can do the stuff I mentioned. Telltale already established her as a cold-hearted villain and set her on a path to being a villain in Season 1 and we got the end result, giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
Be that as it may, I don't expect Lilly to redeem with a snap of fingers. Depending on the players choice, or lack in some other players in… morestances. Me, I know it's a long shot, but I'm sticking with my guns and believing Lilly will come around. I don't know how, I just got a feeling. To any and all who disagree, let her die if she's that far gone, but I've waited for Lilly's return for a long time, and I believe her character is due.
giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
I've been avoiding talking to you(or really, this thread) for a while now, but I'll say right now that giving her some redemption would actually involve them writing her [as a] character instead of just slapping her name and face on what is essentially a "new" characterthreat for nostalgia and pandering points.
Your whole reasoning for her to get a redemption arc is based on a facial expression due to being hesitant to shoot you and even with that, … moreshe pulls the trigger if you don't kiss her ass after she attacks your home just like she did with Carley. Let's recap what she did, she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids, whether you were nice or not changes nothing because she still does the same thing, a facial expression doesn't mean shit if she can do the stuff I mentioned. Telltale already established her as a cold-hearted villain and set her on a path to being a villain in Season 1 and we got the end result, giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
Your whole reasoning for her to get a redemption arc is based on a facial expression due to being hesitant to shoot you and even with that, … moreshe pulls the trigger if you don't kiss her ass after she attacks your home just like she did with Carley. Let's recap what she did, she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids, whether you were nice or not changes nothing because she still does the same thing, a facial expression doesn't mean shit if she can do the stuff I mentioned. Telltale already established her as a cold-hearted villain and set her on a path to being a villain in Season 1 and we got the end result, giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
excuse me? she killed Carley and is leader/part of a community that's kidnapping and raising child soldiers to fight in a war. If that's not enough for you to mark her as a bad person, I don't have a goddamn clue what could
Enough. Maybe you're right. Maybe she is beyond saving. The evidence you have provided is very circumstantial. Maybe in some way, I still will take pity on this poor soul.
Whatever follows, I will rescue the ones she's kidnapped, take her and her community down a peg, but I will make something abundantly clear. I. WILL. NOT. KILL. HER.
Your whole reasoning for her to get a redemption arc is based on a facial expression due to being hesitant to shoot you and even with that, … moreshe pulls the trigger if you don't kiss her ass after she attacks your home just like she did with Carley. Let's recap what she did, she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids, whether you were nice or not changes nothing because she still does the same thing, a facial expression doesn't mean shit if she can do the stuff I mentioned. Telltale already established her as a cold-hearted villain and set her on a path to being a villain in Season 1 and we got the end result, giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
You. Listen to me. Don't you ever...EVER let someone tell you Lily is beyond salvation. Evidence or no evidence, she wasn't always like that. She can be reverted back to her old ways.
Enough. Maybe you're right. Maybe she is beyond saving. The evidence you have provided is very circumstantial. Maybe in some way, I still w… moreill take pity on this poor soul.
Whatever follows, I will rescue the ones she's kidnapped, take her and her community down a peg, but I will make something abundantly clear. I. WILL. NOT. KILL. HER.
Sorry, I just got caught up in what the naysayers have said. And I do still remember from Season 1 were Lilly was still human. Thanks Dex-Starr. You're a lifesaver. I will keep your words to heart.
I still wish it possible. But I know it won't be easy. Yet, with two episodes remaining, can it be done?
You. Listen to me. Don't you ever...EVER let someone tell you Lily is beyond salvation. Evidence or no evidence, she wasn't always like that. She can be reverted back to her old ways.
It’s fun to have an antagonist that we’ve known from a long time ago. Many of us are excited to see if she’ll soften up for clem, while others are keen on sending her off to her demise.
Anything is possible in TWD. Just look at Kenny and how he survived certain death at the end of s1. The fact Lily even was hesitant to shoot Clem means she can be saved.
Sorry, I just got caught up in what the naysayers have said. And I do still remember from Season 1 were Lilly was still human. Thanks Dex-S… moretarr. You're a lifesaver. I will keep your words to heart.
I still wish it possible. But I know it won't be easy. Yet, with two episodes remaining, can it be done?
You seem to think the idea of her being a new threat is lazy, she wasn't just chosen out the blue to be a new threat, Telltale were setting her up to be one in Season 1.
giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
I've been avoiding talking to you(or really, this thread) for … morea while now, but I'll say right now that giving her some redemption would actually involve them writing her [as a] character instead of just slapping her name and face on what is essentially a "new" characterthreat for nostalgia and pandering points.
You. Listen to me. Don't you ever...EVER let someone tell you Lily is beyond salvation. Evidence or no evidence, she wasn't always like that. She can be reverted back to her old ways.
Ok
1. watch your mouth when speaking about our queen
2. she did what she had to do in order to ensure her survival.
3. carley was way out of line for mouthing off to Lily when she was right about ben being the traitor.
4. She's not a bitch
she wasn't always like that. She can be reverted back to her old ways.
You mean a selfish backstabbing murderous bitch because she's always been like that.
You seem to think the idea of her being a new threat is lazy, she wasn't just chosen out the blue to be a new threat, Telltale were setting her up to be one in Season 1.
So it is in a time bubble where no new info can be applied. Also I replied in that with a simple YouTube answer.
Ok to be more fitting, she is willingly, for her own selfish need to survive, kidnapping kids and turning them into child soldiers. Season 1 Lilly...was a woman who made a bad call out of fear, grief and mistrust. Season 1 Lilly...wasnt bad, just broken.
smashes time bubble Season 4 Lilly, no matter what she is up against, is a monster for kidnapping kids and using them. Not a good person. So hate can be more reserved for who she became over what we once knew.
Eh, while the time bubble stuff is kinda bearing, the actual discussion there is fine.
Wasn't really trying to restrict much of anything per say, but then I have said that I'm kinda tired of seeing this thread at this point in time, so whatever.
So it is in a time bubble where no new info can be applied. Also I replied in that with a simple YouTube answer.
Ok to be more fitting, … moreshe is willingly, for her own selfish need to survive, kidnapping kids and turning them into child soldiers. Season 1 Lilly...was a woman who made a bad call out of fear, grief and mistrust. Season 1 Lilly...wasnt bad, just broken.
smashes time bubble Season 4 Lilly, no matter what she is up against, is a monster for kidnapping kids and using them. Not a good person. So hate can be more reserved for who she became over what we once knew.
No, her being supposedly being the main threat for TFS and especially the way her inclusion was written in Suffer the Children is lackluster.
Actually making a new character and establishing them probably would've been work.
Your Queen tried to kill you, heck, you probably haven't gotten past the part where she's shooting at you because you might offend your Queen by dodging her bullets.
You're not doing her any favors by confirming what I've been saying.
Ok
1. watch your mouth when speaking about our queen
2. she did what she had to do in order to ensure her survival.
3. carley was way out of line for mouthing off to Lily when she was right about ben being the traitor.
4. She's not a bitch
Your Queen tried to kill you, heck, you probably haven't gotten past the part where she's shooting at you because you might offend your Queen by dodging her bullets.
If she wants to kill me, who am I to stop her from doing that?
You're not doing her any favors by confirming what I've been saying.
Yes I am. I'm justifying her actions. Whether i'm doing a horrible job of that or not isn't important.
You do know Carley was her #1 suspect right?
No she wan't. Ben was until Carley started running her mouth.
* Your Queen tried to kill you, heck, you probably haven't gotten past the part where she's shooting at you because you might offend your Qu… moreeen by dodging her bullets.
* You're not doing her any favors by confirming what I've been saying.
* You do know Carley was her #1 suspect right?
* Her actions speak louder than your words.
Dex, she willingly killed Carley for pissing her off. At least Kenny had a valid concern of not wanting to wrestle undead Larry in an enclosed space when he was quite possibly, to his perception, dead and turning.
What she did to her was spiteful murder. Doug...he died for her trying the same to Ben. Just because Ben was guilty...doesn't give her the right to randomly fire a gun. Doesn't give her the right to blow the brains out of someone who just wanted the situation to de escalate.
I like Lilly as a character, she is proof on how the world can tear at you. She is a powerfully tragic figure as, if it was not for the St. John's...she might not have lost her father in that way and could have turned out better. It is a shame...but she became bad.
Comments
So you gonna ignore where she had no problem pulling the trigger earlier just because of a facial expression?
So what proof is there that she's a good person? You were nice to her in Season 1 and look where that got you, and in S4E2 she tried to kill Clem earlier and brought up Lee to taunt her but she makes a facial expression when she's pointing a gun at Clem and that makes her a good person?
I just want to point out before I get started that in no way am I justifying anything Lilly has done in episode 2 or season 1.
I think Lilly is only acting ruthless, so it gets to a point where one day she thinks she is and is willing to do what needs to be done in the raiders eyes. Like that's her way of staying alive.
But when she sees Clementine again, for the first time in a long time, instead of constantly beating her until she says where the boarding school is, she helps her up (or can try) and has Abel stop hurting AJ.
She says that she doesn't blame Lee for kicking her out of the group for killing Carley/Doug and says she was clearly a threat to the group. So she's shown some regret over what she did.
Killing Mitch was just reflex, not on purpose. You can even see the shocked look on her face, that it was something she didn't mean to do - though it was still wrong regardless.
Near the end of the fight with the raiders, she's hesitant on shooting Clem and literally says "this should be easy." Lilly probably sees Clementine as that young girl from the Motor Inn. So when she says anything about Lee, I think that's Lilly's way of hurting Clem because she can't bring herself do it physically.
Who Lilly was in season 1 is probably still there, I can kinda see her getting a redemption arc and becoming an ally.
I can see a kind side of her somewhere. She was hesitating from pulling the trigger on Clem anyone that does that can't be 100% bad.
That's what I'm hoping for.
No, I'm not ignoring that. But now that she knows it's Clem, it will cause internal conflicts of practicality and loyalty. Somewhere along those lines.
She saw an opportunity to manipulate Clem and it failed, she mocked Lee for his care for Clem and she tries to kill Clem after that.
She acknowledges what she did but in no way does it hint she regrets what she did, she didn't even remember Carley's name and I assume the same is for Doug.
What did she think was gonna happen when she invaded the school in the hopes of kidnapping children? did she expect them to bow down to her like she expected Carley?
She tried killing Clem earlier, that one facial reaction shouldn't overlook her actions from earlier. She brought up Lee to taunt Clem, she showed earlier that she's capable of physically hurting Clem and besides if you don't kiss her ass in that scene, she tries to kill Clem like she did with Carley.
Season 1 Lilly has always been there, she has always been the same selfish murdering backstabbing bitch she was in Season 1. She threw her "redemption" out the window when she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable and in ruins which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids. The only people that can see a redemption arc is her fans.
She knew it was Clem the moment she first laid eyes on her and she tried to kill her multiple times.
Don’t forget she even tells her that Lee should have abandoned Clem just moments after recognizing her. Only a heartless bitch could say something like that to a kid.
Be that as it may, I don't expect Lilly to redeem with a snap of fingers. Depending on the players choice, or lack in some other players instances. Me, I know it's a long shot, but I'm sticking with my guns and believing Lilly will come around. I don't know how, I just got a feeling. To any and all who disagree, let her die if she's that far gone, but I've waited for Lilly's return for a long time, and I believe her character is due.
The most I can see her doing is not directly killing her or AJ. Maybe convincing one of her higher ups to not kill Clementine too. At the same I don’t see Lilly shooting her team and getting herself killed to save them. I 100% see her killing another character next episode, like Omar or Louis.
Her idea of doing something good for clem would be sparing her for the sake of the war effort, not so she can go back to the school.
I guess that makes sense, to an extent.
Lilly Carver... The new leader..
What is with the love for lilly? Aside from being an arrogant asshat murderer in the first season, now she's a fucking slaver. Fuck lilly.
Your whole reasoning for her to get a redemption arc is based on a facial expression due to being hesitant to shoot you and even with that, she pulls the trigger if you don't kiss her ass after she attacks your home just like she did with Carley. Let's recap what she did, she tried to kill Clem multiple times, let Abel torture AJ, attacked a school to kidnap children, killed Mitch and left the school vulnerable which allowed the dead to enter and attack the kids, whether you were nice or not changes nothing because she still does the same thing, a facial expression doesn't mean shit if she can do the stuff I mentioned. Telltale already established her as a cold-hearted villain and set her on a path to being a villain in Season 1 and we got the end result, giving her a redemption arc after what she did would be lazy writing.
Hmmmmm
I've been avoiding talking to you(or really, this thread) for a while now, but I'll say right now that giving her some redemption would actually involve them writing her [as a] character instead of just slapping her name and face on what is essentially a "new" characterthreat for nostalgia and pandering points.
I thought if thus thread instantly after the last episode
It's ridiculous how Lily fans think _ maybe_ being hesitant because she's nostalgic about a former child from the past means she's a good person.
excuse me? she killed Carley and is leader/part of a community that's kidnapping and raising child soldiers to fight in a war. If that's not enough for you to mark her as a bad person, I don't have a goddamn clue what could
Enough. Maybe you're right. Maybe she is beyond saving. The evidence you have provided is very circumstantial. Maybe in some way, I still will take pity on this poor soul.
Whatever follows, I will rescue the ones she's kidnapped, take her and her community down a peg, but I will make something abundantly clear. I. WILL. NOT. KILL. HER.
You. Listen to me. Don't you ever...EVER let someone tell you Lily is beyond salvation. Evidence or no evidence, she wasn't always like that. She can be reverted back to her old ways.
Sorry, I just got caught up in what the naysayers have said. And I do still remember from Season 1 were Lilly was still human. Thanks Dex-Starr. You're a lifesaver. I will keep your words to heart.
I still wish it possible. But I know it won't be easy. Yet, with two episodes remaining, can it be done?
It’s fun to have an antagonist that we’ve known from a long time ago. Many of us are excited to see if she’ll soften up for clem, while others are keen on sending her off to her demise.
Anything is possible in TWD. Just look at Kenny and how he survived certain death at the end of s1. The fact Lily even was hesitant to shoot Clem means she can be saved.
You seem to think the idea of her being a new threat is lazy, she wasn't just chosen out the blue to be a new threat, Telltale were setting her up to be one in Season 1.
You mean a selfish backstabbing murderous bitch because she's always been like that.
Ok
1. watch your mouth when speaking about our queen
2. she did what she had to do in order to ensure her survival.
3. carley was way out of line for mouthing off to Lily when she was right about ben being the traitor.
4. She's not a bitch
No, her being supposedly being the main threat for TFS and especially the way her inclusion was written in Suffer the Children is lackluster.
Actually making a new character and establishing them probably would've been work.
She killed a kid she came to kidnap and force to fight and kill her enemies so she can live. What part of that screams redeemable to you?
Wrong thread.
This is a thread talking about Lilly not being a bad person, which my point counters. No. Right thread.
This thread existed long before the most recent episode and you comment is more contextually in line with the newer one I linked.
So it is in a time bubble where no new info can be applied. Also I replied in that with a simple YouTube answer.
Ok to be more fitting, she is willingly, for her own selfish need to survive, kidnapping kids and turning them into child soldiers. Season 1 Lilly...was a woman who made a bad call out of fear, grief and mistrust. Season 1 Lilly...wasnt bad, just broken.
smashes time bubble Season 4 Lilly, no matter what she is up against, is a monster for kidnapping kids and using them. Not a good person. So hate can be more reserved for who she became over what we once knew.
Eh, while the time bubble stuff is kinda bearing, the actual discussion there is fine.
Wasn't really trying to restrict much of anything per say, but then I have said that I'm kinda tired of seeing this thread at this point in time, so whatever.
How is it lackluster? you could say that about any character.
Oh, I realize that. It's just Lily in particular is probably the weakest part of Suffer the Children.
If she wants to kill me, who am I to stop her from doing that?
Yes I am. I'm justifying her actions. Whether i'm doing a horrible job of that or not isn't important.
No she wan't. Ben was until Carley started running her mouth.
I don't think so
Dex, she willingly killed Carley for pissing her off. At least Kenny had a valid concern of not wanting to wrestle undead Larry in an enclosed space when he was quite possibly, to his perception, dead and turning.
What she did to her was spiteful murder. Doug...he died for her trying the same to Ben. Just because Ben was guilty...doesn't give her the right to randomly fire a gun. Doesn't give her the right to blow the brains out of someone who just wanted the situation to de escalate.
I like Lilly as a character, she is proof on how the world can tear at you. She is a powerfully tragic figure as, if it was not for the St. John's...she might not have lost her father in that way and could have turned out better. It is a shame...but she became bad.