There dfifferent stages of development (or "savyness if you prefer) regarding each facet of one´s life.
You could be the ultimate Walkier-killing badass, and still have no idea of how to tend to an orchard.
You could be the greatest strategist and leader of the East Coast and still not able to shoot a gun for dear life.
Maturity isnt an homogenous thing. HOWEVER, some it should spill into others aspects of her life: I dont believe confessing her feeling should as traumatic as taking part of the Siege at Richmond, for example. The deal with situations that imply mortal danger on an almost daily basis, so I wouldnt be surprised if kids in this world became blunt and direct with their feelings
HOWEVER 2.0, since none of them have the time or guidance to contextualize their feelings they may come across as alien and difficult to deal with. You always, more or less, have an idea on how to deal with a Walker: Talking to your crush? Not so much...
Well....hate to say this but what you consider romance is....trash xD No offence but loyalty,trust and respect is not what romance is about.… more Rather admiration,attraction, more selfish yet humble emotions. And why would clem be anything but unmature as she has no experience when it comes to romance. Why do you say she should be extra mature given whats happened in "their" lives. I think you sir need to go out on the field more
No shit im saying its hard for a lot of people (especially older viewers) to get on board with it bc it comes off a bit cheesy and fruity wh… moreich is one thing the walking dead has never been. Especially because clem is known for being mature for her age - it's why she's so liked by all players. They could've handled it more maturely, they're in their late teens but the way they handle the romances are like theyre 12, especially since this group should be extra mature given whats happened in their lives. Teenage romance doesn't have to be immature, In their universe, a relationship, especially a romantic one should be built on trust, respect and loyalty even more so than usual, and none of those seem to be the reason for clem and louis' romance like they literally met not that long ago, not saying its bad exactly, just saying people who aren't young will likely not really like it.
No stfu Gabentine is literally apparent in ties that bind part 2 (at launch) so it WAS a thing before fans even got to react to it. How is it the fans fault lmao.
No stfu Gabentine is literally apparent in ties that bind part 2 (at launch)
Hmph, "apparent."
How is it the fans fault lmao.
Because they was really reaching to jump to a conclusion that they blew way out of proportion and wouldn't STFU about until the seemingly different team in charge of Thicker than Water caught on and decided to reference it as possibly so.
No stfu Gabentine is literally apparent in ties that bind part 2 (at launch) so it WAS a thing before fans even got to react to it. How is it the fans fault lmao.
Because they was really reaching to jump to a conclusion that they blew way out of proportion
Skip to 27:54. It WAS a thing, plain as day. The fans weren’t jumping to conclusions they saw what Telltale was doing with this and didn’t want them to continue/expand on it at all.
the seemingly different team in charge of Thicker than Water caught on and decided to reference it as possibly so.
Then that’s the devs fault because a vast majority of fans were clearly against this ship. How is that the fans fault.
Hmph, "apparent."
I’m like 60% sure I used that word correctly but whatever.
No stfu Gabentine is literally apparent in ties that bind part 2 (at launch)
Hmph, "apparent."
How is it the fans fault lmao.
… more
Because they was really reaching to jump to a conclusion that they blew way out of proportion and wouldn't STFU about until the seemingly different team in charge of Thicker than Water caught on and decided to reference it as possibly so.
Oh, I remember plain as day.
I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably meant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria.
The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
How is that the fans fault.
I just said Telltale saw people going on & on about it and decided to "capitalize" on everyone's shallowness again.
Pay attention, Ed--it'll help keep stuff like Gaybentime from becoming a semi-"serious talking point.
I’m like 60% sure I used that word correctly but whatever.
Oh, you were. I was just making fun of that "logic" yet again.
Because they was really reaching to jump to a conclusion that they blew way out of proportion
Skip to 27:54. It WAS a thing, pla… morein as day. The fans weren’t jumping to conclusions they saw what Telltale was doing with this and didn’t want them to continue/expand on it at all.
the seemingly different team in charge of Thicker than Water caught on and decided to reference it as possibly so.
Then that’s the devs fault because a vast majority of fans were clearly against this ship. How is that the fans fault.
Hmph, "apparent."
I’m like 60% sure I used that word correctly but whatever.
Yeah i agree but you dont have to be romantically mature in order to realise that starting a romance/hanging out is probably an irresponsible move to make in their world, especially when youre about to be attacked, I guess I expected that the characters would know that given thats largely how season 1 and 2 were written. one thing people like about the walking dead is the fact that all the romance/leisure related themes are kept to a minimal because, well, theyve got bigger problems on their hands, and it was more about love in the family way, not romantic way. There was a reason why Carley was killed off before her and lee could become more of a thing, because the main focus was protecting clem and romance would make it less of a focus. It's the same now with Clem and aj and hope romance doesn't become too focused on. I know its determinant but we all know telltale and the way everyones story ends up being almost the same regardless of choice.
There dfifferent stages of development (or "savyness if you prefer) regarding each facet of one´s life.
You could be the ultimate Walkier… more-killing badass, and still have no idea of how to tend to an orchard.
You could be the greatest strategist and leader of the East Coast and still not able to shoot a gun for dear life.
Maturity isnt an homogenous thing. HOWEVER, some it should spill into others aspects of her life: I dont believe confessing her feeling should as traumatic as taking part of the Siege at Richmond, for example. The deal with situations that imply mortal danger on an almost daily basis, so I wouldnt be surprised if kids in this world became blunt and direct with their feelings
HOWEVER 2.0, since none of them have the time or guidance to contextualize their feelings they may come across as alien and difficult to deal with. You always, more or less, have an idea on how to deal with a Walker: Talking to your crush? Not so much...
Also Clementine literally witnesses the pitfalls and fragility of romance from all the adults around her. Romance has never been shown positively in TT's TWD.
Clem sees the outcome of Luke and Jane, Luke and Bonnie (determinant). Kenny and Sarita. The stupid Javi and Kate and David love triangle.
Yeah i agree but you dont have to be romantically mature in order to realise that starting a romance/hanging out is probably an irresponsibl… moree move to make in their world, especially when youre about to be attacked, I guess I expected that the characters would know that given thats largely how season 1 and 2 were written. one thing people like about the walking dead is the fact that all the romance/leisure related themes are kept to a minimal because, well, theyve got bigger problems on their hands, and it was more about love in the family way, not romantic way. There was a reason why Carley was killed off before her and lee could become more of a thing, because the main focus was protecting clem and romance would make it less of a focus. It's the same now with Clem and aj and hope romance doesn't become too focused on. I know its determinant but we all know telltale and the way everyones story ends up being almost the same regardless of choice.
This is just my opinion
One of the main themes in the first issues of the TWD Comic was indeed the love triangle between Rick, Lori and Shane. Because while you could that ahrdships of survival are the main theme of the TWD, I beg to differ, its how those hardships affect people and the way they interact with each other,
The thing is , as the Governor said, you need something other than tabletop games and sex to keep people going. What is a stronger motiovation than love?
Yeah i agree but you dont have to be romantically mature in order to realise that starting a romance/hanging out is probably an irresponsibl… moree move to make in their world, especially when youre about to be attacked, I guess I expected that the characters would know that given thats largely how season 1 and 2 were written. one thing people like about the walking dead is the fact that all the romance/leisure related themes are kept to a minimal because, well, theyve got bigger problems on their hands, and it was more about love in the family way, not romantic way. There was a reason why Carley was killed off before her and lee could become more of a thing, because the main focus was protecting clem and romance would make it less of a focus. It's the same now with Clem and aj and hope romance doesn't become too focused on. I know its determinant but we all know telltale and the way everyones story ends up being almost the same regardless of choice.
This is just my opinion
She wouldnt be here if not for her parents, remember? Nor would AJ.
The thing about affection is tht you have to accept vulnerability with comes with it. If we only to remain result focus? We care about AJ at all? he already cost her a finger/got Kenny killed.
Clem is not smarter than that. Is just another stupid human being, like the rest of us.
Also Clementine literally witnesses the pitfalls and fragility of romance from all the adults around her. Romance has never been shown posi… moretively in TT's TWD.
Clem sees the outcome of Luke and Jane, Luke and Bonnie (determinant). Kenny and Sarita. The stupid Javi and Kate and David love triangle.
All of them end in chaos, death, and stupidity.
Clem's smarter than that.
I think this thread from the lead writer of episode 2 about the hows and whys of the romances should be included here.
https://www.twitter.com/maryknews/status/1046786746560606213
Oh, I remember plain as day. I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably meant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria. The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
Ok, I tried my best to decipher this blob of weirdly structured text but for the love of god why in the hell are you using words like “jive” and “lingo” your not writing a college essay your on the fucking Telltale forums. Ultimately what I think you’re saying is that the scene I just showed that’s present in ANF ep 2 was misinterpreted. It was not misinterpreted, that scene was the start of something that the fans did not want continued or expanded upon. If this was not what you were trying to say in that mess of a comment then I’m sorry, maybe try typing like a normal person.
The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record. “How is that the fans fault.” I just said Telltale saw people going on & on about it and decided to "capitalize" on everyone's shallowness again. Pay attention, Ed--it'll help keep stuff like Gaybentime from becoming a semi-"serious talking point.
How would you know if the original script was altered/rewritten? You’re not a Telltale Dev, you don’t know what went on behind the scenes. Just because you assume they changed the script due to fan reaction doesn’t mean it’s fact. You don’t know if Gabentine wasn’t in the original script, period.
Oh, you were. I was just making fun of that "logic" yet again.
Oh, I remember plain as day.
I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably… more meant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria.
The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
How is that the fans fault.
I just said Telltale saw people going on & on about it and decided to "capitalize" on everyone's shallowness again.
Pay attention, Ed--it'll help keep stuff like Gaybentime from becoming a semi-"serious talking point.
I’m like 60% sure I used that word correctly but whatever.
Oh, you were. I was just making fun of that "logic" yet again.
Oh, I remember plain as day. I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably m… moreeant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria. The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
Ok, I tried my best to decipher this blob of weirdly structured text but for the love of god why in the hell are you using words like “jive” and “lingo” your not writing a college essay your on the fucking Telltale forums. Ultimately what I think you’re saying is that the scene I just showed that’s present in ANF ep 2 was misinterpreted. It was not misinterpreted, that scene was the start of something that the fans did not want continued or expanded upon. If this was not what you were trying to say in that mess of a comment then I’m sorry, maybe try typing like a normal person.
The fact that it rem… [view original content]
"Alright listen here you romantically experienced fuck"
Heheheh yea i deserve that for being cocky xD
I totally understand your point but still I have to strongly disagree. Like dude If I where about to have a small war, I would get everything of my chest to one and other as everyones survival is at stakes. That goes especially for love Plus ugh Clem needs a freacking break like a normal human.
Alright listen here you romantically experienced fuck
I was more referring to starting a relationship rather than romance when I said loyal… morety trust and respect because in the walking dead universe, It's probably not a good idea to commit someone who you can't trust or respect when it could get you killed (I'm assuming that they will turn the romance into more?).
And I said they should be extra mature meaning that given their long experience of the shit they've been through they would be smart enough to not act on their "selfish yet humble" emotions and start a fuckign romance right before theyre about to be attacked
But i agree with clem not being mature in the romance section but i guess i didn't expect her to even go there, she's always been smart and focused on surviving rather than getting caught up in leisure things like playing piano or lying under the stars, idk i just dont like the immaturity of the new season when one of the main appeals of this franchise is how maturely it handles subjects
Lemme join. If Telltale decided to capitalize on negative hysteria then, well first of all it's negative and the majority of people in the community were not fond of it. If they were then it would make sense.
A piece of 'evidence' to support your remark is that the romance was handled horribly, unlike Clouis/Violetine which is probably the best determinant romance in a game that I know of.
Secondly, if Telltale decided to capitalize on the fans irrationality, why on Earth would it be in Episode 2, which actually released alongside Episode 1? Think. It needs to be INTRODUCED in some subtle way at the least for fans to see it as an actual thing, as opposed to in pre-release where fans just think 'oh they're the same age, so he must be a romance option (James ) So why are you saying it's the fans's fault? This was clearly some folks at Telltale's fault, and I believe it's because they foolishly got carried away with showing off her development (monotonous voice, periods, boyfriend )
Look at it this way, in case my arguements weren't convincing enough. In TFS, romance is certainly a thing. But even before the achievements were shown to the public, fans thought Louis/Marlon/Violet could be romance options for Clementine. That seemed like idiotic thinking. But guess what? It was already planned. In June 2018(?) Telltale writers didn't just log into the forums and see half-witted posts and then change their minds to make those characters suitable romance options. Rather it was a similiar process; Telltale changed their minds, probably earlier, but without fans' input. I don't think there was crazed shipping for Gabe when he was released, and even if there was it was most likely in a jokey manner, especially after fans saw Gabe's 'personality' in the Demo.
Now please, stop thinking it's the fans fault why there was romance (wouldn't call it romance, feels less than half-baked)
Oh, I remember plain as day.
I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably… more meant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria.
The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
How is that the fans fault.
I just said Telltale saw people going on & on about it and decided to "capitalize" on everyone's shallowness again.
Pay attention, Ed--it'll help keep stuff like Gaybentime from becoming a semi-"serious talking point.
I’m like 60% sure I used that word correctly but whatever.
Oh, you were. I was just making fun of that "logic" yet again.
Ok I just have to point out how flawed your thinking is. In real life there are no assurances that you will marry and everyone will live. Life is about taking chances and trying to survive and be as happy as you can.
I find this delusional because we all know Violet or Louis are going to die one way or the other.
It's the final season but it's still… more the TWD. There are no happy endings. TT is not going to make it easy for it anyone. The synopsis of this season is "sacrifice".
for the love of god why in the hell are you using words like “jive” and “lingo”
you're not writing a college essay you're on the fucking Telltale forums.
Oh man, I'm dyin here.
I wasn't aware ebonics were necessary(or really allowed) for an essay.
Ultimately what I think you’re saying is that the scene I just showed that’s present in ANF ep 2 was misinterpreted.
Yeah, pretty much.
It was not misinterpreted, that scene was the start of something that the fans did not want continued or expanded upon.
Oh, given how certain fans tend to view and react to things, that is technically true.
It's just that the "popular" conclusion was beyond what the scene itself was actually trying to do. Whether at face value or in general writing/storytelling moves.
How would you know if the original script was altered/rewritten? You’re not a Telltale Dev, you don’t know what went on behind the scenes.
Because Telltale has a history of doing so and a number of sources, including our very own gamedelver @Graysonn, Melissa Hutchinson, and even some very gracious employees in an AMA, have confirmed that ANF went through a pretty large number of rewrites and cuts throughout it's production--likely moreso than any other Season/installment.
Just because you assume they changed the script due to fan reaction doesn’t mean it’s fact.
Except that they have been known to adjust the script and sometimes even how certain plot point happen in partial response to fan reception since Long Road Ahead.
Also, can you seriously telll me that certain major things presented in Above the Law perfectly transitions and lines up with what happens with them in Thicker than Water?
You don’t know if Gabentine wasn’t in the original script, period.
You're right--I technically don't.
The story changed so much over time that it is entirely possible that the shallow shipteasing we saw in Thicker Than Water was actually an up until that point minor contributor to the game's development trying to sneak What Could Have Been into the released version of the game[ again].
However, I've also been free to judge what I see and hear for myself, based on my experience, the comments of other people playing the game, any additional fun facts about the episode's development, and my take on what any of those things.
And that judgment has almost always been that at best, idea of the two potentially being a thing may have been a thought that crossed Telltale's collective mind for a few seconds, and in a worse light, they saw the fact that people were so hyperfocused on the idea and decided to use it as a seemingly pragmatic piece of sticky tape.
Oh, I remember plain as day. I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably m… moreeant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria. The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
Ok, I tried my best to decipher this blob of weirdly structured text but for the love of god why in the hell are you using words like “jive” and “lingo” your not writing a college essay your on the fucking Telltale forums. Ultimately what I think you’re saying is that the scene I just showed that’s present in ANF ep 2 was misinterpreted. It was not misinterpreted, that scene was the start of something that the fans did not want continued or expanded upon. If this was not what you were trying to say in that mess of a comment then I’m sorry, maybe try typing like a normal person.
The fact that it rem… [view original content]
Oh, I remember.
As much as I wish we(or the people who actually care anyway) could've been imagining the whole context instead.
Eh, it's avoidable outside of that and likely would've been not a thing otherwise.
Lemme join. If Telltale decided to capitalize on negative hysteria then, well first of all it's negative and the majority of people in the community were not fond of it. If they were then it would make sense.
Oh trust, as much as I've tried to find some brighter spots with these games and work with the janky tangle they have, I'm still as baffled by a number of the egregious stuff.
That one is just a bizzare case where it's actually so minor and shallow that you might be able to just ignore it completely in a bubble.
A piece of 'evidence' to support your remark is that the romance was handled horribly
Was it? Cause I still say it almost wasn't handled at all.
unlike Clouis/Violetine which is probably the best determinant romance in a game that I know of.
Mnhm...I'll let that keep floating.
Next.
Secondly, if Telltale decided to capitalize on the fans irrationality, why on Earth would it be in Episode 2, which actually released alongside Episode 1?
They weren't...?
Like, I get that fanbases, particularly ones like Clementine's, can be really friggin irrational about almost anything that happens, but I'm also literally looking at the same episode they're looking at and kinda wondering how they're twisting a mere comment--the wrong comment, even--into something to blow out of proportion into such a constant, hard to really get frenzy.
as opposed to in pre-release where fans just think 'oh they're the same age, so he must be a romance option (James )
MMhnm--again, i'll let that fly, but I'll at least say that there is more precedent(and "rationale") behind that.
So why are you saying it's the fans's fault? This was clearly some folks at Telltale's fault, and I believe it's because they foolishly got carried away with showing off her development (monotonous voice, periods, boyfriend )
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, ALL of this is because they decided to make a game and had it come out in the condition & climate that it did, but I was actually here, man.I had to deal with this particular exapseration first hand, from strawgrasping beginning to the "why the hell did this become a remotely serious thing" end!
In TFS, romance is certainly a thing. But even before the achievements were shown to the public, fans thought Louis/Marlon/Violet could be romance options for Clementine. That seemed like idiotic thinking.
I'll say. And I previously did.
In June 2018(?) Telltale writers didn't just log into the forums and see half-witted posts and then change their minds to make those characters suitable romance options.
I don't know, man. Just going b-- Boy, you're really tryin to make me lay it all on the line, aren't ya?
I don't think there was crazed shipping for Gabe when he was released
Um...you know what, its been long enough and my scope of reference is narrow enough that I honestly can't say much either way.
Now please, stop thinking it's the fans fault why there was romance (wouldn't call it romance, feels less than half-baked)
Lemme join. If Telltale decided to capitalize on negative hysteria then, well first of all it's negative and the majority of people in the c… moreommunity were not fond of it. If they were then it would make sense.
A piece of 'evidence' to support your remark is that the romance was handled horribly, unlike Clouis/Violetine which is probably the best determinant romance in a game that I know of.
Secondly, if Telltale decided to capitalize on the fans irrationality, why on Earth would it be in Episode 2, which actually released alongside Episode 1? Think. It needs to be INTRODUCED in some subtle way at the least for fans to see it as an actual thing, as opposed to in pre-release where fans just think 'oh they're the same age, so he must be a romance option (James ) So why are you saying it's the fans's fault? This was clearly some folks at Telltale's fault, and I believe it's because they foolishly got carried away with showing off her develo… [view original content]
I think it's pretty safe to say that my arguements are stronger than yours, as evidenced by your unvoncincing responses, and this isn't even my final form. It's only 20% of my full power, but I won't waste my time when you're just responding with witty remarks that don't make your arguement more cogent. I will say this though - Gabentine certainly wasn't a premier idea, rather it was probably thought of after Gabe was introudced - partly introuduced so that he could work alongside Clem, and to make it seem as if Clem was actually necessary since she was somewhat actually involved with the Garcia family. Of course, 'bad writing' resulted in her existence in ANF unecessary, but I'm sure that was the intention. After all, she's barely even Clem.
It just occured to me, isn't it really strange to think of ANF Clem and then TFS Clem? They're both somewhat similiar but TFS Clem is more tangible due to her being a mostly player controlled character. And it's even wierder when I don't really like TFS Clem.. well I don't like any of the oranges.
Lemme join. If Telltale decided to capitalize on negative hysteria then, well first of all it's negative and the majority of people in the c… moreommunity were not fond of it. If they were then it would make sense.
Oh trust, as much as I've tried to find some brighter spots with these games and work with the janky tangle they have, I'm still as baffled by a number of the egregious stuff.
That one is just a bizzare case where it's actually so minor and shallow that you might be able to just ignore it completely in a bubble.
A piece of 'evidence' to support your remark is that the romance was handled horribly
Was it? Cause I still say it almost wasn't handled at all.
unlike Clouis/Violetine which is probably the best determinant romance in a game that I know of.
Mnhm...I'll let that keep floating.
Next.
Secondly, if Telltale decided to capitalize on the fans irrationality, why on Earth would it be in Episod… [view original content]
I see what you mean, i guess it just comes down to whether youre a fan of watching romance scenes (or just hanging out) and you can probably tell im not and I know a lot of other people aren't fans of it either, although I did like carley and lee's back in season 1 because it was more mature
"Alright listen here you romantically experienced fuck"
Heheheh yea i deserve that for being cocky xD
I totally understand your point but… more still I have to strongly disagree. Like dude If I where about to have a small war, I would get everything of my chest to one and other as everyones survival is at stakes. That goes especially for love Plus ugh Clem needs a freacking break like a normal human.
I think it's pretty safe to say that my arguements are stronger than yours, as evidenced by your unvoncincing responses, and this isn't even my final form. It's only 20% of my full power
...K...?
Gabentine certainly wasn't a premier idea, rather it was probably thought of after Gabe was introudced - partly introuduced so that he could work alongside Clem, and to make it seem as if Clem was actually necessary since she was somewhat actually involved with the Garcia family.
DINGDINGDINGDING!
It just occured to me, isn't it really strange to think of ANF Clem and then TFS Clem?
You play with the hand you're dealt. It's either that or playing a different game.
To be more direct though, they are both somewhat representations of both Telltale's intentions and what they believed the fans would like.
They're both somewhat similiar but TFS Clem is more tangible due to her being a mostly player controlled character.
Tangible how?
And it's even wierder when I don't really like TFS Clem..
I think it's pretty safe to say that my arguements are stronger than yours, as evidenced by your unvoncincing responses, and this isn't even… more my final form. It's only 20% of my full power, but I won't waste my time when you're just responding with witty remarks that don't make your arguement more cogent. I will say this though - Gabentine certainly wasn't a premier idea, rather it was probably thought of after Gabe was introudced - partly introuduced so that he could work alongside Clem, and to make it seem as if Clem was actually necessary since she was somewhat actually involved with the Garcia family. Of course, 'bad writing' resulted in her existence in ANF unecessary, but I'm sure that was the intention. After all, she's barely even Clem.
It just occured to me, isn't it really strange to think of ANF Clem and then TFS Clem? They're both somewhat similiar but TFS Clem is more tangible due to her being a mostly player controlled characte… [view original content]
idk i didnt read the comic or watch the show so i only know what ive seen on the game, and i never disagreed about how its more about how the hardship affects the characters, it fully is, it just needs to be communicated to players in a more subtle way like in season 1. i also just meant that love in the form romance shouldnt be too much of a focus, rather love in the form of family, as it has been the most major theme of the game (lee & clem, kennys family, lilly & larry, clem & kenny, etc.)
One of the main themes in the first issues of the TWD Comic was indeed the love triangle between Rick, Lori and Shane. Because while you cou… moreld that ahrdships of survival are the main theme of the TWD, I beg to differ, its how those hardships affect people and the way they interact with each other,
The thing is , as the Governor said, you need something other than tabletop games and sex to keep people going. What is a stronger motiovation than love?
one of clems likeable traits that sets her apart is the fact that she is smarter than that, she is literally fictional they don't have to make her so realistic (meaning like another stupid human) especially since they havent made her realistic since the start, she was an 11 year old acting like an adult
She wouldnt be here if not for her parents, remember? Nor would AJ.
The thing about affection is tht you have to accept vulnerability wi… moreth comes with it. If we only to remain result focus? We care about AJ at all? he already cost her a finger/got Kenny killed.
Clem is not smarter than that. Is just another stupid human being, like the rest of us.
Ok I just have to point out how flawed your thinking is. In real life there are no assurances that you will marry and everyone will live. Life is about taking chances and trying to survive and be as happy as you can.
You could make the case that taking care of a newborn is ,arguably , a completly terrible idea. As Lilly points out.
Or wasting scarece medicine in a child who a doctor assured was not going to live.
Or to get kicked out of the afore mentioned group due to this selfish act.
Or not cooperate with Carver and his crew, who had walls, crops and solar power , choosing Luke´s group of crippled sheeps
Or to side with the School´s Kids instead of siding with Delta: Sure, they would use her as a child-soldier but she would know where enxt meal would come from and AJ would be behind nice strong walls with plenty of badasses to look after him.
So, objectively, she is not. She acts on the same unpractical notions of morality that the rest of us, thats what makes ehr human, and ultiamtely relatable.
one of clems likeable traits that sets her apart is the fact that she is smarter than that, she is literally fictional they don't have to ma… moreke her so realistic (meaning like another stupid human) especially since they havent made her realistic since the start, she was an 11 year old acting like an adult
I think it's pretty safe to say that my arguements are stronger than yours, as evidenced by your unvoncincing responses, and this isn't even… more my final form. It's only 20% of my full power
...K...?
Gabentine certainly wasn't a premier idea, rather it was probably thought of after Gabe was introudced - partly introuduced so that he could work alongside Clem, and to make it seem as if Clem was actually necessary since she was somewhat actually involved with the Garcia family.
DINGDINGDINGDING!
It just occured to me, isn't it really strange to think of ANF Clem and then TFS Clem?
You play with the hand you're dealt. It's either that or playing a different game.
To be more direct though, they are both somewhat representations of both Telltale's intentions and what they believed the fans would like.
They're both somewhat similiar but TFS Clem is more tangible due to her being a mostly player controlled c… [view original content]
TWD has many subplots that revolve around emotional entanglement: Sometimes it was not subtle at all, boiling down "Wanna bang?" (and its not even an exaggeration) Some did it to forget for a sec about everything thats happening, others because they needed to feel a connection, other ebcause they genuily fostered feeling for the other.
If this was the comic I can assure they thing would have gotten...more mature. But one thing that they have in common is the realization that dooms will always be on the horizon: So they must take strengh from whatever source they can: family, lovers, community.
Because thats what ultimately makes them human, otherwise, THEY are the Walking Dead
idk i didnt read the comic or watch the show so i only know what ive seen on the game, and i never disagreed about how its more about how th… moree hardship affects the characters, it fully is, it just needs to be communicated to players in a more subtle way like in season 1. i also just meant that love in the form romance shouldnt be too much of a focus, rather love in the form of family, as it has been the most major theme of the game (lee & clem, kennys family, lilly & larry, clem & kenny, etc.)
I mean she's still alive surely shes worthy of the title of being smart? i think youre going too deep with the definition of smart, her character has always been constructed as smart and mature, while still having a heart, and if you think she's not smart then you probably won't agree with the whole protagonist cast and morality of the game and you'd probably hate clementine, as well as lee. Being smart sometimes means she can't be relatable and people will respect that. they can still make her relatable and smart though
Lee literally says at the start of the game "thats smart" to her when we first meet her at her treehouse, its clear from the beginning being smart is meant to be one of her appeals you cant change my mind dont @ me
You could make the case that taking care of a newborn is ,arguably , a completly terrible idea. As Lilly points out.
Or wasting scarece m… moreedicine in a child who a doctor assured was not going to live.
Or to get kicked out of the afore mentioned group due to this selfish act.
Or not cooperate with Carver and his crew, who had walls, crops and solar power , choosing Luke´s group of crippled sheeps
Or to side with the School´s Kids instead of siding with Delta: Sure, they would use her as a child-soldier but she would know where enxt meal would come from and AJ would be behind nice strong walls with plenty of badasses to look after him.
So, objectively, she is not. She acts on the same unpractical notions of morality that the rest of us, thats what makes ehr human, and ultiamtely relatable.
i think im referring more to the entertainment aspect of the game rather than the actual nature of their lives like im just saying that if they (telltale) make romance too much of a main focus instead of family a lot of people including myself will be disinterested, btw i liked the way they did carley and lee so dont think i just hate romance
i dont think id be a fan of the comics personally if it focused too much on romance and sexual shit thats just me
TWD has many subplots that revolve around emotional entanglement: Sometimes it was not subtle at all, boiling down "Wanna bang?" (and its n… moreot even an exaggeration) Some did it to forget for a sec about everything thats happening, others because they needed to feel a connection, other ebcause they genuily fostered feeling for the other.
If this was the comic I can assure they thing would have gotten...more mature. But one thing that they have in common is the realization that dooms will always be on the horizon: So they must take strengh from whatever source they can: family, lovers, community.
Because thats what ultimately makes them human, otherwise, THEY are the Walking Dead
You could also chalk it down to being lucky...or well accompanied - and both apply to Clem - as disfunctional as Luke´s Group was, Clem would died in that forest without them and she was lucky enough that Pete and Luke were in the Area.
Take whatever advantange you can imagine: Wits, Luck, Company, Weapons and Resources. As sharp as you might be, there will always be something you failed to plan for (as was with the case of Sam), Luck runs out, People die, Weapons break down and Resourced drain.
Its only through a combination of those that you have safe net to keep Death at an arms length. While talking about Clem I dont know if "smart" if the first word that comes to mind: Resourceful and quick to adapt seem more accurate to me.
I mean she's still alive surely shes worthy of the title of being smart? i think youre going too deep with the definition of smart, her char… moreacter has always been constructed as smart and mature, while still having a heart, and if you think she's not smart then you probably won't agree with the whole protagonist cast and morality of the game and you'd probably hate clementine, as well as lee. Being smart sometimes means she can't be relatable and people will respect that. they can still make her relatable and smart though
Lee literally says at the start of the game "thats smart" to her when we first meet her at her treehouse, its clear from the beginning being smart is meant to be one of her appeals you cant change my mind dont @ me
Comments
There dfifferent stages of development (or "savyness if you prefer) regarding each facet of one´s life.
You could be the ultimate Walkier-killing badass, and still have no idea of how to tend to an orchard.
You could be the greatest strategist and leader of the East Coast and still not able to shoot a gun for dear life.
Maturity isnt an homogenous thing. HOWEVER, some it should spill into others aspects of her life: I dont believe confessing her feeling should as traumatic as taking part of the Siege at Richmond, for example. The deal with situations that imply mortal danger on an almost daily basis, so I wouldnt be surprised if kids in this world became blunt and direct with their feelings
HOWEVER 2.0, since none of them have the time or guidance to contextualize their feelings they may come across as alien and difficult to deal with. You always, more or less, have an idea on how to deal with a Walker: Talking to your crush? Not so much...
I get what you mean, I chose violet and found the whole bonding scene a bit life is strangey lol but it didn't really bother me
Oh,please stop.
It was and everyone knows it.
It was the fanbase's fault anyway, so everything should've stopped a long time
No stfu Gabentine is literally apparent in ties that bind part 2 (at launch) so it WAS a thing before fans even got to react to it. How is it the fans fault lmao.
I think it's great that Clem can find a romantic partner. It will help her in a lot of ways.
Hmph, "apparent."
Because they was really reaching to jump to a conclusion that they blew way out of proportion and wouldn't STFU about until the seemingly different team in charge of Thicker than Water caught on and decided to reference it as possibly so.
Skip to 27:54. It WAS a thing, plain as day. The fans weren’t jumping to conclusions they saw what Telltale was doing with this and didn’t want them to continue/expand on it at all.
Then that’s the devs fault because a vast majority of fans were clearly against this ship. How is that the fans fault.
I’m like 60% sure I used that word correctly but whatever.
Oh, I remember plain as day.
I remember that some not very smart young person seriously misinterpreted the sort of lingo that was probably meant to jive with them and started whole idiotic hysteria.
The fact that it remotely came up after many more rewrites can indeed be attributed to a self-fulfilling prophecy given the track record.
I just said Telltale saw people going on & on about it and decided to "capitalize" on everyone's shallowness again.
Pay attention, Ed--it'll help keep stuff like Gaybentime from becoming a semi-"serious talking point.
Oh, you were. I was just making fun of that "logic" yet again.
Yeah i agree but you dont have to be romantically mature in order to realise that starting a romance/hanging out is probably an irresponsible move to make in their world, especially when youre about to be attacked, I guess I expected that the characters would know that given thats largely how season 1 and 2 were written. one thing people like about the walking dead is the fact that all the romance/leisure related themes are kept to a minimal because, well, theyve got bigger problems on their hands, and it was more about love in the family way, not romantic way. There was a reason why Carley was killed off before her and lee could become more of a thing, because the main focus was protecting clem and romance would make it less of a focus. It's the same now with Clem and aj and hope romance doesn't become too focused on. I know its determinant but we all know telltale and the way everyones story ends up being almost the same regardless of choice.
This is just my opinion
Also Clementine literally witnesses the pitfalls and fragility of romance from all the adults around her. Romance has never been shown positively in TT's TWD.
Clem sees the outcome of Luke and Jane, Luke and Bonnie (determinant). Kenny and Sarita. The stupid Javi and Kate and David love triangle.
All of them end in chaos, death, and stupidity.
Clem's smarter than that.
One of the main themes in the first issues of the TWD Comic was indeed the love triangle between Rick, Lori and Shane. Because while you could that ahrdships of survival are the main theme of the TWD, I beg to differ, its how those hardships affect people and the way they interact with each other,
The thing is , as the Governor said, you need something other than tabletop games and sex to keep people going. What is a stronger motiovation than love?
She wouldnt be here if not for her parents, remember? Nor would AJ.
The thing about affection is tht you have to accept vulnerability with comes with it. If we only to remain result focus? We care about AJ at all? he already cost her a finger/got Kenny killed.
Clem is not smarter than that. Is just another stupid human being, like the rest of us.
I think this thread from the lead writer of episode 2 about the hows and whys of the romances should be included here.
Even they know this is rife for some shit.
Ok, I tried my best to decipher this blob of weirdly structured text but for the love of god why in the hell are you using words like “jive” and “lingo” your not writing a college essay your on the fucking Telltale forums. Ultimately what I think you’re saying is that the scene I just showed that’s present in ANF ep 2 was misinterpreted. It was not misinterpreted, that scene was the start of something that the fans did not want continued or expanded upon. If this was not what you were trying to say in that mess of a comment then I’m sorry, maybe try typing like a normal person.
How would you know if the original script was altered/rewritten? You’re not a Telltale Dev, you don’t know what went on behind the scenes. Just because you assume they changed the script due to fan reaction doesn’t mean it’s fact. You don’t know if Gabentine wasn’t in the original script, period.
You’re one to talk.
Rule 1 of these forums: Don't ever argue with DabigRG
For the record, it's very sad when you can't notice sarcasm.
"Alright listen here you romantically experienced fuck"
Plus ugh Clem needs a freacking break like a normal human.
Heheheh yea i deserve that for being cocky xD
I totally understand your point but still I have to strongly disagree. Like dude If I where about to have a small war, I would get everything of my chest to one and other as everyones survival is at stakes. That goes especially for love
Well it was determinantly forced. In one ending.
*Attempted sarcasm
I hope Lily becomes a love option
You're confusing me. In this case, I'm correct. I also made it painfully obvious.
Lemme join. If Telltale decided to capitalize on negative hysteria then, well first of all it's negative and the majority of people in the community were not fond of it. If they were then it would make sense.
A piece of 'evidence' to support your remark is that the romance was handled horribly, unlike Clouis/Violetine which is probably the best determinant romance in a game that I know of.
Secondly, if Telltale decided to capitalize on the fans irrationality, why on Earth would it be in Episode 2, which actually released alongside Episode 1? Think. It needs to be INTRODUCED in some subtle way at the least for fans to see it as an actual thing, as opposed to in pre-release where fans just think 'oh they're the same age, so he must be a romance option (James
) So why are you saying it's the fans's fault? This was clearly some folks at Telltale's fault, and I believe it's because they foolishly got carried away with showing off her development (monotonous voice, periods, boyfriend 
)
Look at it this way, in case my arguements weren't convincing enough. In TFS, romance is certainly a thing. But even before the achievements were shown to the public, fans thought Louis/Marlon/Violet could be romance options for Clementine. That seemed like idiotic thinking. But guess what? It was already planned. In June 2018(?) Telltale writers didn't just log into the forums and see half-witted posts and then change their minds to make those characters suitable romance options. Rather it was a similiar process; Telltale changed their minds, probably earlier, but without fans' input. I don't think there was crazed shipping for Gabe when he was released, and even if there was it was most likely in a jokey manner, especially after fans saw Gabe's 'personality' in the Demo.
Now please, stop thinking it's the fans fault why there was romance (wouldn't call it romance, feels less than half-baked)
Ok I just have to point out how flawed your thinking is. In real life there are no assurances that you will marry and everyone will live. Life is about taking chances and trying to survive and be as happy as you can.
I wasn't aware ebonics were necessary(or really allowed) for an essay.
Yeah, pretty much.
Oh, given how certain fans tend to view and react to things, that is technically true.
It's just that the "popular" conclusion was beyond what the scene itself was actually trying to do. Whether at face value or in general writing/storytelling moves.
Because Telltale has a history of doing so and a number of sources, including our very own gamedelver @Graysonn, Melissa Hutchinson, and even some very gracious employees in an AMA, have confirmed that ANF went through a pretty large number of rewrites and cuts throughout it's production--likely moreso than any other Season/installment.
Except that they have been known to adjust the script and sometimes even how certain plot point happen in partial response to fan reception since Long Road Ahead.
Also, can you seriously telll me that certain major things presented in Above the Law perfectly transitions and lines up with what happens with them in Thicker than Water?
You're right--I technically don't.
The story changed so much over time that it is entirely possible that the shallow shipteasing we saw in Thicker Than Water was actually an up until that point minor contributor to the game's development trying to sneak What Could Have Been into the released version of the game[ again].
However, I've also been free to judge what I see and hear for myself, based on my experience, the comments of other people playing the game, any additional fun facts about the episode's development, and my take on what any of those things.
And that judgment has almost always been that at best, idea of the two potentially being a thing may have been a thought that crossed Telltale's collective mind for a few seconds, and in a worse light, they saw the fact that people were so hyperfocused on the idea and decided to use it as a seemingly pragmatic piece of sticky tape.
Fair/
Oh, I remember.
As much as I wish we(or the people who actually care anyway) could've been imagining the whole context instead.
Eh, it's avoidable outside of that and likely would've been not a thing otherwise.
Oh trust, as much as I've tried to find some brighter spots with these games and work with the janky tangle they have, I'm still as baffled by a number of the egregious stuff.
That one is just a bizzare case where it's actually so minor and shallow that you might be able to just ignore it completely in a bubble.
Was it? Cause I still say it almost wasn't handled at all.
Mnhm...I'll let that keep floating.
Next.
They weren't...?
Like, I get that fanbases, particularly ones like Clementine's, can be really friggin irrational about almost anything that happens, but I'm also literally looking at the same episode they're looking at and kinda wondering how they're twisting a mere comment--the wrong comment, even--into something to blow out of proportion into such a constant, hard to really get frenzy.
MMhnm--again, i'll let that fly, but I'll at least say that there is more precedent(and "rationale") behind that.
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, ALL of this is because they decided to make a game and had it come out in the condition & climate that it did, but I was actually here, man. I had to deal with this particular exapseration first hand, from strawgrasping beginning to the "why the hell did this become a remotely serious thing" end!
I'll say.
And I previously did.
I don't know, man. Just going b--
Boy, you're really tryin to make me lay it all on the line, aren't ya?
Um...you know what, its been long enough and my scope of reference is narrow enough that I honestly can't say much either way.
I think it's pretty safe to say that my arguements are stronger than yours, as evidenced by your unvoncincing responses, and this isn't even my final form. It's only 20% of my full power, but I won't waste my time when you're just responding with witty remarks that don't make your arguement more cogent. I will say this though - Gabentine certainly wasn't a premier idea, rather it was probably thought of after Gabe was introudced - partly introuduced so that he could work alongside Clem, and to make it seem as if Clem was actually necessary since she was somewhat actually involved with the Garcia family. Of course, 'bad writing' resulted in her existence in ANF unecessary, but I'm sure that was the intention. After all, she's barely even Clem.
It just occured to me, isn't it really strange to think of ANF Clem and then TFS Clem? They're both somewhat similiar but TFS Clem is more tangible due to her being a mostly player controlled character. And it's even wierder when I don't really like TFS Clem.. well I don't like any of the oranges.
I see what you mean, i guess it just comes down to whether youre a fan of watching romance scenes (or just hanging out) and you can probably tell im not and I know a lot of other people aren't fans of it either, although I did like carley and lee's back in season 1 because it was more mature
...K...?
DINGDINGDINGDING!
You play with the hand you're dealt. It's either that or playing a different game.
To be more direct though, they are both somewhat representations of both Telltale's intentions and what they believed the fans would like.
Tangible how?
Eh, she's just protagonist.
Really now?
idk i didnt read the comic or watch the show so i only know what ive seen on the game, and i never disagreed about how its more about how the hardship affects the characters, it fully is, it just needs to be communicated to players in a more subtle way like in season 1. i also just meant that love in the form romance shouldnt be too much of a focus, rather love in the form of family, as it has been the most major theme of the game (lee & clem, kennys family, lilly & larry, clem & kenny, etc.)
one of clems likeable traits that sets her apart is the fact that she is smarter than that, she is literally fictional they don't have to make her so realistic (meaning like another stupid human) especially since they havent made her realistic since the start, she was an 11 year old acting like an adult
Listen, i dont know what youre arguing about but i think you're the one with the flawed thinking, kenny is god
You could make the case that taking care of a newborn is ,arguably , a completly terrible idea. As Lilly points out.
Or wasting scarece medicine in a child who a doctor assured was not going to live.
Or to get kicked out of the afore mentioned group due to this selfish act.
Or not cooperate with Carver and his crew, who had walls, crops and solar power , choosing Luke´s group of crippled sheeps
Or to side with the School´s Kids instead of siding with Delta: Sure, they would use her as a child-soldier but she would know where enxt meal would come from and AJ would be behind nice strong walls with plenty of badasses to look after him.
So, objectively, she is not. She acts on the same unpractical notions of morality that the rest of us, thats what makes ehr human, and ultiamtely relatable.
Eh, actually tangerines are okay.
TWD has many subplots that revolve around emotional entanglement: Sometimes it was not subtle at all, boiling down "Wanna bang?" (and its not even an exaggeration) Some did it to forget for a sec about everything thats happening, others because they needed to feel a connection, other ebcause they genuily fostered feeling for the other.
If this was the comic I can assure they thing would have gotten...more mature. But one thing that they have in common is the realization that dooms will always be on the horizon: So they must take strengh from whatever source they can: family, lovers, community.
Because thats what ultimately makes them human, otherwise, THEY are the Walking Dead
I mean she's still alive surely shes worthy of the title of being smart? i think youre going too deep with the definition of smart, her character has always been constructed as smart and mature, while still having a heart, and if you think she's not smart then you probably won't agree with the whole protagonist cast and morality of the game and you'd probably hate clementine, as well as lee. Being smart sometimes means she can't be relatable and people will respect that. they can still make her relatable and smart though
Lee literally says at the start of the game "thats smart" to her when we first meet her at her treehouse, its clear from the beginning being smart is meant to be one of her appeals you cant change my mind dont @ me
i think im referring more to the entertainment aspect of the game rather than the actual nature of their lives like im just saying that if they (telltale) make romance too much of a main focus instead of family a lot of people including myself will be disinterested, btw i liked the way they did carley and lee so dont think i just hate romance
i dont think id be a fan of the comics personally if it focused too much on romance and sexual shit thats just me
You could also chalk it down to being lucky...or well accompanied - and both apply to Clem - as disfunctional as Luke´s Group was, Clem would died in that forest without them and she was lucky enough that Pete and Luke were in the Area.
Take whatever advantange you can imagine: Wits, Luck, Company, Weapons and Resources. As sharp as you might be, there will always be something you failed to plan for (as was with the case of Sam), Luck runs out, People die, Weapons break down and Resourced drain.
Its only through a combination of those that you have safe net to keep Death at an arms length. While talking about Clem I dont know if "smart" if the first word that comes to mind: Resourceful and quick to adapt seem more accurate to me.