I really don't think Ryon is going to be a playable character. They can only go so far into the future, and the kid is only 7 years old. If … morethey even get him to his early teens they'd have to go 6 years into the future, and Telltale has no idea what the canon setting would be then.
My guess is Ryon is going to be like Clem, with Beshka being his Lee.
I tried to play my characters as if they were representative of their most coveted resource: Ironwood. No bending, unless it was to snap back harder. No breaking, unless blocking had failed. No uprooting, lest the earth itself threaten to give.
I can see how a season 2 would work for my specific scenario, likely playing as Rodrik, Beshka, Sentinel, & Gared. Bear boy and blood girl could be options too, but Ikd sooner place my money on a new original character.
But, it's weird to think some people would have wholly different endings.
i believe it does you kill (ludd or gryff) but at the end what matter is what happen to the other charcter for exemple when you asher is all about gwyn how you treat her (lie or chose piece), or at rodrick when ironrath fall soldier took elana as prsioner, and gared endind mean a lot and im honesly think he gonna meet jon again (and its all about how you treat him) im thinking thet we gonna meet a lot more of the cast (tv series) in the next season.
Unfortunately, Telltale makes a lot of stuff always happen no matter what you choices were, as a Telltale fan, you kinda grow to accept it. … moreHowever, Telltale has been doing a lot better regarding this, especially on what happens if Asher/Rodrik is alive in Episode 6. There's quite a few differences there, but ultimately the same thing happens but just differently... if that makes sense.
I'm not sure, I haven't done a third play through yet. I don't see how that's an option though, because the mother insists on drinking the poison and if you don't her to drink it Asher knocks it out of her hand.
I just don't like her. She expects Rodrik to keep the peace at all cost (House Forrester's cost, namely) instead of openly fighting her father's tyranny. It's like telling a country about to be attacked and occupied to just lie down the weapons and bend over voluntarily to get kicked in the ass. If she can't understand that that's a horrible idea and doesn't make the situation better in the long run, what is she? Dumb? Cowardly? Sneaky?
You can save at least one of them. I chose a very bellicose and militaristic style (some might say barbaric) of dealing with the Whitehills. I followed Ludd to his camp with Beskha, Rodrik and the pit fighters and cut off Ludd's head with Rodrik.
Everything was a mess when I got back to Ironwrath, and Rodrik got pretty messed up, but he ended up surviving.
Mira also survived for me tho I had to doom Tom to ensure her survival. I hated what happened to the Starks so I basically asked myself what the Starks would have done and did the opposite lol. It ended up bloody but it sounds like it ended bloody for everyone. At least I got to put Ludd's head on a stick (and I plan on continuing to kill every Whitehill down to the last woman and child in season two).
I'm kind of annoyed that even if you "play the game of thrones" the way Littlefinger or Cersei would you still end up more or less screwed at the end of the first season. Given how different the endings can be I'm wondering how they're gonna pick up at the start of season 2. My season ended in an all out war that the Whitehills won (despite me killing Ludd and his son)--tho Gared is marching south with the bastards and their robot army--and with Rodrik, Mira, and Gared still alive as far as playable first season characters and possibly Talia, Ryon and Beskha still alive as well. Maybe Ser Royland but things didn't look good for him when he helped Rodrik escape.
Some of the endings I've seen listed here have the season ending in poisonings (rather than war) and with less first season playable characters still alive, so I'm interested to see how Telltale handles season 2. If they start right off from the end of season one they will have to have vastly different at least first chapters of season two depending on people's choices. That would be cool, but I expect them to maybe do a fast forward in time type of thing so that, as in TWD season 2, your first season choices don't make a difference for very long. Hopefully they will be more ambitious with this and prove me wrong.
If anyone else got any other endings not already listed I would be interested to hear them.
I agree. By not winning they captured the GoT universe better. I tried to play like I was Tywin (I hated the guy but have to admit things generally went better for him than for guys like Ned), and I did spill a lot of Whitehill blood before I lost (including a very satisfying decapitation of Ludd's fat ass). Still have Rodrik, Mira, and Gared going into next season--with Gared bringing the bastards' robo army and Mira maybe bringing a Lord Morgryn led army (if he wants Ironrath he's gotta get the Whitehills out, right?) so looking forward to next season. Considering it was possible to lose Mira and Rodrik I hope they won't just get rid of them soon into the season to bring everyone who made different choices into the same starting spot for season 2.
I think it was better we dont win (im not a whitehill) since then everybody would just change their savefiles to win. And more emotion in th… moreat ending than what a win would've given us. Finally more development options to try and win again than having a season two where were just sitting there as winners.
Do you think there is a best ending? I've been reading the endings and they all seem bad in different ways. I chose to kill Ludd the first time through but may kill Gryff in the save I take to season 2 (Ludd is an asshole but Gryff is out of control...I guess I just killed Ludd because I promised to kill him so many times...).
Let me know what the ending you get looks like, I'm curious!
If im honest I play to get the best ending and now I don't know what Forrester I want to live, whether I want my sentinel traitor or Gwyn t… moreo save me as Asher/Rodrik. Who do I want to kill, Ludd or Gryff since Ryon lives either way (Im happy about this) I haven't even played Episode 6 yet. UGH! But you can see Bowen AND Erik in Episode 6 soo yay
There seem to be certain characters whose fates don't really change.
I did the same switch with Mira, and when I found she still ended up in the same place and Margaery was just as displeased I went back to being more cunning and ruthless and ended up marrying Morgryn (I want the Whitehills dead and if he wants Ironrath he's gonna have to go through them...)
Gared seems similar...he's gonna end up at the North Grove whether you want to desert or not and like Mira the only significant choice you can make is at the very end.
Rodrik seems to be the main character that you can really alter the story with. The house seems to end up just about done for no matter what but his choices seem to really effect how the house goes about falling. My choices led us to an all out war with the Whitehills and I fulfilled my promise to Ludd by taking his head off just as he'd done to Asher. I've seen other people who's choices with Rodrik led to a showdown where Whitehill tries to poison Rodrik/Asher rather than be in an all out war situation. I'll probably play again before season two but given that I lost no playable characters in the final episode (but got to finally shut Ludd's fat trap) I think this is the save I'll take into next season.
Joffrey's acts weren't entirely random but they were slightly unpredictable. Tywin and Cersei were surprised and infuriated when Joffrey executed Ned. Joffrey did not toss Sansa to the side because Ned was branded a traitor...their engagement lasted for a while after Ned's execution. He was then engaged to Margaery as a reward to the Tyrell's for their help in stopping Stannis' invasion. Had that not happened, Tywin would still have had him marry Sansa. Don't forget that Sansa's only crime was being the daughter of a branded traitor while Margaery was set to marry a man who donned a crown and called himself King. And the Tyrell's supported him as well. It was only Stannis murdering his younger brother that caused the Tyrell's to bend the knee to Joffrey. Margaery and her family were as guilty of treason as Sansa (if not more...as rightfully the throne should have gone to Stannis who was the oldest surviving Baratheon).
Joffrey never showed a nuanced understanding of politics, so it's pretty clear Tywin was the one who decided when it was time to switch from Sansa to Margaery (he still wanted the North, hence marrying Sansa to Tyrion, but Robb and Stannis were the immediate threats and Margaery came with an army).
I think Joffrey's actions were impulsive, violent, and often random. It was Tywin's political intelligence that sometimes made them look otherwise. It wasn't until shortly before Joffrey's death that he started making decisions against Tywin's advice (except for the decision to execute Ned, which was against Cersei's directive but Tywin was not yet in the city. This action was a perfect example of the childish shortsightedness with which Joffrey ruled when making his own decisions).
When he acknowledged him as a king, the mess was already made. And of course Joffrey would call off his betrothal with Sansa, she was the da… moreughter of a traitor after all. Why would he marry a girl from a family that committed treason against you instead of a girl from a powerful family that is bending the knee to you?
Joffrey was impulsive and violent, but his acts were not random.
Sorry Abeille I didn't read most of your replies before I replied. You made most of my points already .
Although Ned wasn't supposed to die. He had made a deal for Sansa's safety that involved him saying publicly he had lied about Joffrey and in exchange he would be sent to the wall. Joffrey disobeyed his mother and did not keep his word however and at the last moment changed the sentence to execution. If that doesn't show how childish, rash and random his decisions were, what does? He threw the country into a civil war that his mother had very cleverly avoided when she brokered the deal that got Ned sent to the wall. The Lannisters may not be gone entirely yet, but that one act by Joffrey sealed their fate.
And as I said as far as the juggling of Joffrey's fiancées went, those were political decisions made by Tywin. Joffrey stayed engaged to Sansa until Tywin needed the Tyrell army to deal with Stannis and Robb. Once Robb was dealt with he married Sansa to another family member. Sansa's status as daughter of a traitor was the justification of why Joffrey was betrothed to Margaery, not the reason.
That's not how it happened. The trouble started with Ned doing his little investigation and deciding to reveal to everybody that Joffrey was… more a bastard and, therefore, not a true heir of Robert Baratheon's throne. He even went straight to Cersei to reveal his plan and give her "an opportunity to take her children and flee". Although Ned was right, that would mean Joffrey would lose the Throne, and Stannis would take his place as the rightful king, as Robert didn't have a single legitimate child.
That was why he was branded a traitor. That was why he was executed. That was why Robb decided to wage war on the Crown and that's why Sansa went from ally to hostage.
Well said. As nice as it would be to have major differences in the story line, it is simply impractical and we would get one episode a year, if that.
And, as you pointed out, this game actually has more variables than previous telltale games have had. We get to decide which brother goes into season 2. We get to decide whether Mira dies honorably, or lets Tom die for her and lives to possibly marry the man who has ambitions on her house. We get to decide what Gared chooses to do with the secrets Gregor has left at the north grove.
I've always loved the experience of telltale games, and this one, tho yes, the major events are still largely the same, offers us more significant choices than any previous telltale game. I mean compare the amount of things we can change heading into S2 of GoT with the number of things we could change heading into S2 of TWD. Good job Telltale.
As it is your first Telltale game, I can understand your confusion. But the thing is this: It's simply impossible for Telltale to do more th… morean one 'main story line'. If they had several, it would take months or even years for a single Episode to release. That has always been the case with Telltale games, ever since TWD.
'This game series adapts to the choices you make. It is tailored by how you play it'
Not even huge games like Mass Effect can pull several main storylines off. And Telltale still has a loose timetable they have to follow, Episodes simply can't take 10 months to come out.
So major events are bound to happen, or the story couldn't happen. What the player does is merely changing his personal experience of Telltale's set story. Mira has to steal the Ironwood decree from Morgryn, or she would never be imprisoned. Rodrik and Asher have to be trapped, or both of them could survive. Gared has to kill Britt and become a desert… [view original content]
Guys don't kill the traitor,in my case was royland,but he is still loyal to the house and you cause at the end of the episode he will show up and help you from death.they still have our house and ramsey said last house standing so if we want to take our house again,ramsey must die or at least something happens to boltons shit they made the story very hard for us.
Do you think there is a best ending? I've been reading the endings and they all seem bad in different ways. I chose to kill Ludd the first t… moreime through but may kill Gryff in the save I take to season 2 (Ludd is an asshole but Gryff is out of control...I guess I just killed Ludd because I promised to kill him so many times...).
Let me know what the ending you get looks like, I'm curious!
Guys don't kill the traitor,in my case was royland,but he is still loyal to the house and you cause at the end of the episode he will show u… morep and help you from death.they still have our house and ramsey said last house standing so if we want to take our house again,ramsey must die or at least something happens to boltons shit they made the story very hard for us.
yep but i couldn't cause he said i have information about asher i love duncan and royland both but it still shows that royland is loyal to house and he isn't a traitor by saving you it fits the story more cause our house is at war now not in peace and we need royland a fighter and i saved asher and royland believes in asher just like he said i want every whitehill dead so after this, i just want to killlllllll and i'm gonna need every killer lol but i respect everybody's choice.IRON FROM ICE BROTHER
Once she promised to get Gryff exiled I was on board. And everything she says is true, honestly to sue for peace was the best option, I thought it was strange that everyone is like "OMAGERD HORRIBLE IDEA ASHER," and I'm sitting there like "Wouldn't this alliance just let Forrester rebuild to the point that Ludd no longer has any power?" Think about it, Asher sues and marries Gwyn, this gives Ludd a claim on Ironrath via a male heir, but that's irrelevant because Asher could actually rebuild a REAL army in that time. And Gwyn proved she was on your side the whole season by helping Rodrik and leaking information.
I'm surprised only 15% decided to trust Gwyn and not go through with plan - this will get you an extra scene at the end of Gwyn + Talia tend… moreing to the half-dead Asher and you still get to stab Gwyff. Having rewinded a few times, this actually seemed the best ending. (none of the other choices really change much - Ironrath always gets burned and lotta people gonna die; and the other choices are mostly season 2 bait)
The only other major life-or-death is the terrible conclusion to the Mira storyline - you either kill Mira or choose the live but the game will make you feel extra bad for just choosing life. None of her choices matters AT ALL other than maybe a one liner in the epilogue.
Asher or Rodrick end up injured rescued by Talia with one of the sentinel or Gwyn
Garred either stays north or goes south
The Forrester castle always burn
Am i wrong somewhere, did I forget something ?
I try to resume all the branching part.
I'm not sure about Gwyn, does she come with Talia and the remaining sentinel if you try the poison option with Asher but call the plan off ?
Or is it instead of the sentinel ?
And i don't know what happen with her if you play Rodrick and if you can have her join him.
Either way, her and her familly are potentiel people of interest for next season.
I have to say that those ending are quite good for a TV show season finale.
For a video game, it's kinda weird. Like "congratulation, you lost. Game over", we are not use to play games we can't beat.
We are use to dark, tragic, bitter sweet or either "bad" ending but this is something else.
I don't say it's bad, or there is no place for it in gaming. Just that game are about control and too much lack of it can be off putting.
But I guess we are not talking about a game here, but really an interactive story, and a good one imo.
Please help me correct my check list if something is wrong or missing.
dude did you really sacrifice lady forrester? imagine she was your mother,would you do that to her?this is cruel,plus i hate ludd very much more than gryf, but sacrificing my mother,no wayyyyy,she was drinking the poison in front of me, i couldn't just sit and watch
I got cunning strategy, too - by now it's 28.7%
Blue: Elected Duncan. Sacrificed Lady Forrester to poison the dirtbag Ludd. Stood up to G… moreryff regardless of consequences.
Red: Helped Cotter end his suffering. Kept your integrity but lost Margaery's favor.
I'm really dissapointed with the ending- there is still only the illusion of our choices. The determinant heroes (Asher/Rodrick, Mira) would be probably dead or forgotten at the beggining of next season.
Forresters are so similar to Starks... Both lost because of stupid mothers (both Catelyn and Elissa lost their brain in the most important political moments), other assosiations: Mira-Sansa, Rodrick-Robb, Gared-Jon, and imo Ryon-Arya (ok, firstly he is more similar to not-existing in book Rickon- maybe this would change soon, but his conversation with Ethan (about bad people have to be punished) and last scene while he is obviously willing to revenge made me think he would become the assasin of the God with Many Faces). That would mean Beshka would die or dissapear like the Sandor Clegane in Arya story. Ryon as Rickon and Beksha as Osha maybe make more sense, but Ryon as Arya is more interesting storyline for me. (and that would make Ryon come to Braavos, so we won't have all the Forresters in North)
Looking at these assosiations to Starks, I thought Mira would be rescued by Varys, I was sure Tom is his spy. That's why her death was a little shocking and dissapointing for me... Why they continue her story for so long to end it like that? They could at least make Tom sacrifise for Mira. And imo she doesn't have good replacement for a main hero in King's Landing now.
Who would we play if Mira is dead? Sera/Morgryn/Tom? Sera doesn't care about Forresters, Morgryn without Mira doesn't have chance too (he can search for Talia as a wife, but that would make him come to North, too many heroes there), Tom without Mira doesn't make sense too (and he can be dead instead of Mira). I had an idea that Talia would be sent to King's Landing for the help from Margaery, who would become a queen- she could meet Morgryn as well, but I'm not convinced to that.
From the heroes in King's Landing Morgryn is the most probable to play for me. Cersei can give him an offer to marry a girl similar to Mira (that would be similar to Ramsay Snow marrying unreal Sansa in book), but I'm not sure what advantage can Cersei have from that. Such situation would make Mira's story to similar point, no matter if she is dead or no.
And I think too many heroes are in North Grove, so next important choice wuld be to choose who would die: sister Snow, brother Snow or Sylvi. Imo no matter if we chose to go south or stay in North Grove, we would somehow be forced to stay behind Wall- too many characters are now in Forrester's House.
And I think Malcolm near Daenerys would appear, we need some Forrester to continue her story.
So to sum up, I think it's still the story of Forresters, so there is a chance that we would play: Rodrick/Asher(only in 1st episode imo, they would probably die at the beggining like Ethan), Morgryn, Talia, Ryon/Beksha (I hope for Ryon-assasin), Malcolm and Gared. I can probably be wrong, the hero of King's Landing is the most problematic for me.
I killed the traitor (Duncan in my game) and I don't regret it at all. Because of the traitor, the Whitehills knew that Asher was coming, which is why they ambushed him, and they knew how many men we had. They helped the Whitehills more than the Forresters
Guys don't kill the traitor,in my case was royland,but he is still loyal to the house and you cause at the end of the episode he will show u… morep and help you from death.they still have our house and ramsey said last house standing so if we want to take our house again,ramsey must die or at least something happens to boltons shit they made the story very hard for us.
Game is parallel to the TV series, that's why a lot of things couldn't happen, and why some could. For example, Varys totally was not able to rescue Mira, because at that point he was already sailing in sea with Tyrion, because they fled right after Joffrey got poisoned, and that was noticeable, if not mistaken, in some of the middle episodes (2, 3, or in 4th). They have to follow the events from TV series, how it will play out, from that they will be able to make gameplay scenarios for us.
Reading comments about how people comparing Forresters to Starks made me accept the idea/comparison of my own about Forresters and Starks, because I started to see the resemblance, plus, at the end, when Cersei talked about Forresters, that they didn't knew how to bend a knee, that they were full of dignity and courage, yet weak... They are still so loyal to House Stark (I think it depends of the choices ? I never will bend a knee, nor when I did, it had bad outcome, so I just replayed with "fu*k-the-kneeling" idea if everyone is still going to die).
I'm really dissapointed with the ending- there is still only the illusion of our choices. The determinant heroes (Asher/Rodrick, Mira) w… moreould be probably dead or forgotten at the beggining of next season.
Forresters are so similar to Starks... Both lost because of stupid mothers (both Catelyn and Elissa lost their brain in the most important political moments), other assosiations: Mira-Sansa, Rodrick-Robb, Gared-Jon, and imo Ryon-Arya (ok, firstly he is more similar to not-existing in book Rickon- maybe this would change soon, but his conversation with Ethan (about bad people have to be punished) and last scene while he is obviously willing to revenge made me think he would become the assasin of the God with Many Faces). That would mean Beshka would die or dissapear like the Sandor Clegane in Arya story. Ryon as Rickon and Beksha as Osha maybe make more sense, but Ryon as Arya is more interesting storyline for me. (and that would make R… [view original content]
Totally not possible because they are following the TV series, and TV series did not have time skipping, if only in the next season in 2016, but it wont happen, why should it, it would skip so much, and they have to set it up in such a way that it would take a whole season, but it wont, because The Winter is coming for a very long time, all seasons, and the last season was so dramatic and epic...the dead are coming closer, and now, they have bigger army, they are not resting, so there is no time skipping for now. Time skipping might work if Aria would be the only one left, and other characters are set for some years doing some sort of business, like Tyrion is being preparing with Daenerys and others collecting army, continuing training dragons and finally getting them under full control of their grown up selves. Aria learning the art of Faceless God or something.
Sansa probably survived and now is hiding, mastering some arts probably, learning how to fight, she might become some sort of warrior maiden, or maybe black magic and stuff, black magic suits her more (maybe something else, I might have forgotten some events and lines from last season), plus, it clearly says she survived the fall, it's not placed under "unknown" in wikia, but it is kinda unknown, maybe I missed something or forgot that gave away the obvious surviving chance.
So you see...these are options that require to be set in some ways that can't start right from the start in the next season, if it required to happen (have the time skipping), then it should have happened when Aria went to Essos, still wouldn't make sense, and it can't be after she got there, because the story still goes about introducing her to the Faceless God and everything, she hasn't started any kind of serious type of training, not yet.
Simply put, things are not the way they should for your wish to fulfill.
I really don't think Ryon is going to be a playable character. They can only go so far into the future, and the kid is only 7 years old. If … morethey even get him to his early teens they'd have to go 6 years into the future, and Telltale has no idea what the canon setting would be then.
My guess is Ryon is going to be like Clem, with Beshka being his Lee.
Game is parallel to the TV series, that's why a lot of things couldn't happen, and why some could. For example, Varys totally was not able t… moreo rescue Mira, because at that point he was already sailing in sea with Tyrion, because they fled right after Joffrey got poisoned, and that was noticeable, if not mistaken, in some of the middle episodes (2, 3, or in 4th). They have to follow the events from TV series, how it will play out, from that they will be able to make gameplay scenarios for us.
Reading comments about how people comparing Forresters to Starks made me accept the idea/comparison of my own about Forresters and Starks, because I started to see the resemblance, plus, at the end, when Cersei talked about Forresters, that they didn't knew how to bend a knee, that they were full of dignity and courage, yet weak... They are still so loyal to House Stark (I think it depends of the choices ? I never will bend a knee, nor when I did, it ha… [view original content]
It kind of make sense, and maybe they don't have such creativity enough to start from ground up but to be based on something.
GoT seems to have a story where the children of the good family in a world where there is almost to zero good, where there is no place for such people, to actually have the greatest power at the end of the story, but to build the epic ending they require to build up anger to their last main characters, to do that it's obvious they have to go through such pain as witnessing their parents deaths, or hearing their deaths, to know people who did it, then going through some events that might include raping (Sansa basically was raped after wedding with Ramsey), a lot of beating and other kind of punishment, but these are the characters that WILL survive to the end or very close to the end, but they will get their revenge, they will get theirs, they have that very important thing in their life to cling for, to cling for their life, to survive so they can get revenge, and they are not that reckless like their other family members, and they had smart people that could give them options, good options, choices, and possible outcomes to each option they might take...it made them easier to choose, but at the same time they might have played someones cards, like Sansa was played by Baelish, because he wanted her, it wasn't kind of a band thing, cause he wanted her to survive because Sansa was just that fu*king hot, I mean...who doesn't want to have her in bed? Duuh.
there is only one thing to say forrester=stark i mean what the hell on crisis after another when i stop asher mom from get poisen and went to war then archers aim at me and i was like, omg its the starks all over again but thanks god asher survive.
I kinda wish to replay that part where I choose to marry that dickbutt, she seems to be the only that might kill her future "husband" in the bed and run away, or something like that, like the almost impossible situation with Sansa, where she actually got away, which seemed at the time quite impossible to run away from Ramsey. I took a pride too, wanted to spit in that dickbutt's face, but I raised my head, with pride, but didn't liked that she got beheaded, I would prefer to have that kid to be beheaded, but I have no idea why the fuck he stick with Mira...what was his role? I still don't know it.
P.S. You sound as if Lady survived somehow, or did something awesome when "fought" against Harys, I could barely call it a fight, in my way she simply stabbed once in the back of Harys, but you make it sound as if she fought like a warrior, evading, cutting and shi* like that
Tell me the truth, did she only stabbed once in the back of Harys and then got quickly stabbed once and died? That...wasn't badass, not for me. What was badass was when Asher pierced Gryff and I choose to say - "Shut the fuck up!", I totally had something similar in my head all the time at that point, it gave me freakin' chills for a bit and crazy Joker(from Batman) kinda laugh, sadly Gwyn stabbed me, at least Asher survived even the worst hit that came after...thought he totally died there, lost all hope after Lady got stabbed deadly before Asher took a hit.
I'm incredibly satisfied with my ending, actually.
I got exactly what I wanted - the chance to actually try to make peace with Gwyn. Lady… more Forrester was a badass fighting Harys. Duncan saved me. Beskha saved Ryon. And I proudly kept my dignity as Mira, and accepted death.
Now the agonising wait for season 2.. :P
He is not dead whatsoever, he's simply so beaten up, imagine...he was stabbed with a fucking greatsword, got a real badly injured wound, I'm amazed he is alive. If he would die, then either he wouldn't be showed at the end and would have died at the Ironrath, or we would have seen that nobody would have come to look for him in the woods, we would seee him falling from horse and simply not moving, not even eyes, but he was waking up from a fall, but quickly fell unconscious again, because of blood loss and great deal damage.
That information about Asher is useless, already since Asher reunited with Rodrik...especially when you play later as Asher instead of Rodrik, either way, if you play as Rodrik, Asher obviously dies...still no use from that info about Asher...
It seems I will have to replay that part and kill Duncan instead of imprisoning, cause I wish Royland to be alive and keep surviving with me, I see no use from Duncan even if he would survive...but then again, Rodrik is not a person to even kill traitor that didn't had big bad intentions. Maybe he has info about Whitehills...maybe it might come in handy...eh, tough choice, when it was easy (?)...
yep but i couldn't cause he said i have information about asher i love duncan and royland both but it still shows that royland is loyal to h… moreouse and he isn't a traitor by saving you it fits the story more cause our house is at war now not in peace and we need royland a fighter and i saved asher and royland believes in asher just like he said i want every whitehill dead so after this, i just want to killlllllll and i'm gonna need every killer lol but i respect everybody's choice.IRON FROM ICE BROTHER
Varys still has his "birds" in King's Landing, he didn't need to release Mira by himself- just by his command.
Comparing Forresters to Starks came naturally to me- good people with honour which you like must die or lose, no matter if yo play GoT game or read GoT book or watch GoT movie
Game is parallel to the TV series, that's why a lot of things couldn't happen, and why some could. For example, Varys totally was not able t… moreo rescue Mira, because at that point he was already sailing in sea with Tyrion, because they fled right after Joffrey got poisoned, and that was noticeable, if not mistaken, in some of the middle episodes (2, 3, or in 4th). They have to follow the events from TV series, how it will play out, from that they will be able to make gameplay scenarios for us.
Reading comments about how people comparing Forresters to Starks made me accept the idea/comparison of my own about Forresters and Starks, because I started to see the resemblance, plus, at the end, when Cersei talked about Forresters, that they didn't knew how to bend a knee, that they were full of dignity and courage, yet weak... They are still so loyal to House Stark (I think it depends of the choices ? I never will bend a knee, nor when I did, it ha… [view original content]
I kinda wish to replay that part where I choose to marry that dickbutt, she seems to be the only that might kill her future "husband" in the… more bed and run away, or something like that, like the almost impossible situation with Sansa, where she actually got away, which seemed at the time quite impossible to run away from Ramsey. I took a pride too, wanted to spit in that dickbutt's face, but I raised my head, with pride, but didn't liked that she got beheaded, I would prefer to have that kid to be beheaded, but I have no idea why the fuck he stick with Mira...what was his role? I still don't know it.
P.S. You sound as if Lady survived somehow, or did something awesome when "fought" against Harys, I could barely call it a fight, in my way she simply stabbed once in the back of Harys, but you make it sound as if she fought like a warrior, evading, cutting and shi* like that
Tell me the truth, did she only stabbed once in the back of Harys and… [view original content]
Lord Forrester can end up with Talia and the traitor too (if you spared his life). And it's always Talia and one person who will come to the lord's rescue (as you mentioned them before). With Rodrik... I think there can only be the Sentinel or the traitor.
Allright so...
* Mira is either dead or "married" to the sociopath
* One Whitehill always live (father or son)
* Beshka always end up… more with the young forrester
* The mother Forrester always dies
* Asher or Rodrick end up injured rescued by Talia with one of the sentinel or Gwyn
* Garred either stays north or goes south
* The Forrester castle always burn
Am i wrong somewhere, did I forget something ?
I try to resume all the branching part.
I'm not sure about Gwyn, does she come with Talia and the remaining sentinel if you try the poison option with Asher but call the plan off ?
Or is it instead of the sentinel ?
And i don't know what happen with her if you play Rodrick and if you can have her join him.
Either way, her and her familly are potentiel people of interest for next season.
I have to say that those ending are quite good for a TV show season finale.
For a video game, it's kinda weird. Like "congratulation, you … [view original content]
@Handsome Rhys I really like this idea, but sadly I don't think Telltale are really capable of doing this. I might be wrong and they might surprise us, I don't think it's likely though.
Well, to be fair, it could be all an act. Mira is basically in the same position as Sansa was (more or less) only that Morgryn is way more w… moreholesome than Ramsay and Mira (at least mine) way more cunning than Sansa, there's room for things to happen, if TT wants to take that path.
Ultimately, I think that Mira's collapse is all a result of the perilous schemes of King's Landing. She played the game, she dealt her hand and she lost. When you lose the game, you either die or get annihiliated, and both can happen to Mira.
I'm thinking along the lines of kill Morgryn and escape. I think Telltale have royally screwed up this time! Mira's story line could have so much potential.
Its a nice afterthought - hope that in a playthrough where Mira survives that she somehow manages to escape/kill Morgryn.
But Morgryn kno… morews how cunning Mira is and therefore he expects her to try something which means he would be on his guard and have checks to keep Mira in place. But surely Mira knows that he knows that she would grasp at the first opportunity to free herself and to ward off such suspicion starts acting in complete servitude to him. But then what if Morgryn knows that she's only acting so passive so as to lower his own guard, since their both pretty cunning.
I'd have really liked a sub-plot where the two try to mentally outmaneuver each other until Mira finally finds a way to escape him... too bad she won't be a POV in Season 2 so I really do wonder where her determinant story of survival goes after the end of Season 1...
@MHT22 personally I would've been surprised if they hadn't lost Ironrath. I fully expected them to lose it because that is basically what has been building up all season.
Comments
So Beskha might end up dying in the end to save Ryon? :c
I tried to play my characters as if they were representative of their most coveted resource: Ironwood. No bending, unless it was to snap back harder. No breaking, unless blocking had failed. No uprooting, lest the earth itself threaten to give.
I can see how a season 2 would work for my specific scenario, likely playing as Rodrik, Beshka, Sentinel, & Gared. Bear boy and blood girl could be options too, but Ikd sooner place my money on a new original character.
But, it's weird to think some people would have wholly different endings.
This may sound stupid but if royland(sentinel) and talia come to "save" asher he doesn't move so is he dead..?
i believe it does you kill (ludd or gryff) but at the end what matter is what happen to the other charcter for exemple when you asher is all about gwyn how you treat her (lie or chose piece), or at rodrick when ironrath fall soldier took elana as prsioner, and gared endind mean a lot and im honesly think he gonna meet jon again (and its all about how you treat him) im thinking thet we gonna meet a lot more of the cast (tv series) in the next season.
I'm not sure, I haven't done a third play through yet. I don't see how that's an option though, because the mother insists on drinking the poison and if you don't her to drink it Asher knocks it out of her hand.
I just don't like her. She expects Rodrik to keep the peace at all cost (House Forrester's cost, namely) instead of openly fighting her father's tyranny. It's like telling a country about to be attacked and occupied to just lie down the weapons and bend over voluntarily to get kicked in the ass. If she can't understand that that's a horrible idea and doesn't make the situation better in the long run, what is she? Dumb? Cowardly? Sneaky?
You can save at least one of them. I chose a very bellicose and militaristic style (some might say barbaric) of dealing with the Whitehills. I followed Ludd to his camp with Beskha, Rodrik and the pit fighters and cut off Ludd's head with Rodrik.
Everything was a mess when I got back to Ironwrath, and Rodrik got pretty messed up, but he ended up surviving.
Mira also survived for me tho I had to doom Tom to ensure her survival. I hated what happened to the Starks so I basically asked myself what the Starks would have done and did the opposite lol. It ended up bloody but it sounds like it ended bloody for everyone. At least I got to put Ludd's head on a stick (and I plan on continuing to kill every Whitehill down to the last woman and child in season two).
I'm kind of annoyed that even if you "play the game of thrones" the way Littlefinger or Cersei would you still end up more or less screwed at the end of the first season. Given how different the endings can be I'm wondering how they're gonna pick up at the start of season 2. My season ended in an all out war that the Whitehills won (despite me killing Ludd and his son)--tho Gared is marching south with the bastards and their robot army--and with Rodrik, Mira, and Gared still alive as far as playable first season characters and possibly Talia, Ryon and Beskha still alive as well. Maybe Ser Royland but things didn't look good for him when he helped Rodrik escape.
If anyone else got any other endings not already listed I would be interested to hear them.
I agree. By not winning they captured the GoT universe better. I tried to play like I was Tywin (I hated the guy but have to admit things generally went better for him than for guys like Ned), and I did spill a lot of Whitehill blood before I lost (including a very satisfying decapitation of Ludd's fat ass). Still have Rodrik, Mira, and Gared going into next season--with Gared bringing the bastards' robo army and Mira maybe bringing a Lord Morgryn led army (if he wants Ironrath he's gotta get the Whitehills out, right?) so looking forward to next season. Considering it was possible to lose Mira and Rodrik I hope they won't just get rid of them soon into the season to bring everyone who made different choices into the same starting spot for season 2.
Do you think there is a best ending? I've been reading the endings and they all seem bad in different ways. I chose to kill Ludd the first time through but may kill Gryff in the save I take to season 2 (Ludd is an asshole but Gryff is out of control...I guess I just killed Ludd because I promised to kill him so many times...).
Let me know what the ending you get looks like, I'm curious!
How do you end up getting to where they try to poison you? For me season 1 ended in a brutal all out war.
There seem to be certain characters whose fates don't really change.
I did the same switch with Mira, and when I found she still ended up in the same place and Margaery was just as displeased I went back to being more cunning and ruthless and ended up marrying Morgryn (I want the Whitehills dead and if he wants Ironrath he's gonna have to go through them...)
Gared seems similar...he's gonna end up at the North Grove whether you want to desert or not and like Mira the only significant choice you can make is at the very end.
Rodrik seems to be the main character that you can really alter the story with. The house seems to end up just about done for no matter what but his choices seem to really effect how the house goes about falling. My choices led us to an all out war with the Whitehills and I fulfilled my promise to Ludd by taking his head off just as he'd done to Asher. I've seen other people who's choices with Rodrik led to a showdown where Whitehill tries to poison Rodrik/Asher rather than be in an all out war situation. I'll probably play again before season two but given that I lost no playable characters in the final episode (but got to finally shut Ludd's fat trap) I think this is the save I'll take into next season.
Joffrey's acts weren't entirely random but they were slightly unpredictable. Tywin and Cersei were surprised and infuriated when Joffrey executed Ned. Joffrey did not toss Sansa to the side because Ned was branded a traitor...their engagement lasted for a while after Ned's execution. He was then engaged to Margaery as a reward to the Tyrell's for their help in stopping Stannis' invasion. Had that not happened, Tywin would still have had him marry Sansa. Don't forget that Sansa's only crime was being the daughter of a branded traitor while Margaery was set to marry a man who donned a crown and called himself King. And the Tyrell's supported him as well. It was only Stannis murdering his younger brother that caused the Tyrell's to bend the knee to Joffrey. Margaery and her family were as guilty of treason as Sansa (if not more...as rightfully the throne should have gone to Stannis who was the oldest surviving Baratheon).
Joffrey never showed a nuanced understanding of politics, so it's pretty clear Tywin was the one who decided when it was time to switch from Sansa to Margaery (he still wanted the North, hence marrying Sansa to Tyrion, but Robb and Stannis were the immediate threats and Margaery came with an army).
I think Joffrey's actions were impulsive, violent, and often random. It was Tywin's political intelligence that sometimes made them look otherwise. It wasn't until shortly before Joffrey's death that he started making decisions against Tywin's advice (except for the decision to execute Ned, which was against Cersei's directive but Tywin was not yet in the city. This action was a perfect example of the childish shortsightedness with which Joffrey ruled when making his own decisions).
Sorry Abeille I didn't read most of your replies before I replied. You made most of my points already
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Although Ned wasn't supposed to die. He had made a deal for Sansa's safety that involved him saying publicly he had lied about Joffrey and in exchange he would be sent to the wall. Joffrey disobeyed his mother and did not keep his word however and at the last moment changed the sentence to execution. If that doesn't show how childish, rash and random his decisions were, what does? He threw the country into a civil war that his mother had very cleverly avoided when she brokered the deal that got Ned sent to the wall. The Lannisters may not be gone entirely yet, but that one act by Joffrey sealed their fate.
And as I said as far as the juggling of Joffrey's fiancées went, those were political decisions made by Tywin. Joffrey stayed engaged to Sansa until Tywin needed the Tyrell army to deal with Stannis and Robb. Once Robb was dealt with he married Sansa to another family member. Sansa's status as daughter of a traitor was the justification of why Joffrey was betrothed to Margaery, not the reason.
You have to play as Asher, then there will be two options: ambush or poison. If you pick poison you have to go through with the plan!
Well said. As nice as it would be to have major differences in the story line, it is simply impractical and we would get one episode a year, if that.
And, as you pointed out, this game actually has more variables than previous telltale games have had. We get to decide which brother goes into season 2. We get to decide whether Mira dies honorably, or lets Tom die for her and lives to possibly marry the man who has ambitions on her house. We get to decide what Gared chooses to do with the secrets Gregor has left at the north grove.
I've always loved the experience of telltale games, and this one, tho yes, the major events are still largely the same, offers us more significant choices than any previous telltale game. I mean compare the amount of things we can change heading into S2 of GoT with the number of things we could change heading into S2 of TWD. Good job Telltale.
Guys don't kill the traitor,in my case was royland,but he is still loyal to the house and you cause at the end of the episode he will show up and help you from death.they still have our house and ramsey said last house standing so if we want to take our house again,ramsey must die or at least something happens to boltons shit they made the story very hard for us.
Hi Joel,
I dunno which one is the best... but mine probably pretty close to it IMHO, maybe...
You can watch it here:
https://youtu.be/MeqDpullNtM
I submitted to Gwynn's plea for no more bloodshed.
Had to save Mira in the end.
But if you kill the Traitor, Your Sentinel will survive.
yep but i couldn't cause he said i have information about asher i love duncan and royland both but it still shows that royland is loyal to house and he isn't a traitor by saving you it fits the story more cause our house is at war now not in peace and we need royland a fighter and i saved asher and royland believes in asher just like he said i want every whitehill dead so after this, i just want to killlllllll and i'm gonna need every killer lol but i respect everybody's choice.IRON FROM ICE BROTHER
Once she promised to get Gryff exiled I was on board. And everything she says is true, honestly to sue for peace was the best option, I thought it was strange that everyone is like "OMAGERD HORRIBLE IDEA ASHER," and I'm sitting there like "Wouldn't this alliance just let Forrester rebuild to the point that Ludd no longer has any power?" Think about it, Asher sues and marries Gwyn, this gives Ludd a claim on Ironrath via a male heir, but that's irrelevant because Asher could actually rebuild a REAL army in that time. And Gwyn proved she was on your side the whole season by helping Rodrik and leaking information.
Allright so...
Am i wrong somewhere, did I forget something ?
I try to resume all the branching part.
I'm not sure about Gwyn, does she come with Talia and the remaining sentinel if you try the poison option with Asher but call the plan off ?
Or is it instead of the sentinel ?
And i don't know what happen with her if you play Rodrick and if you can have her join him.
Either way, her and her familly are potentiel people of interest for next season.
I have to say that those ending are quite good for a TV show season finale.
For a video game, it's kinda weird. Like "congratulation, you lost. Game over", we are not use to play games we can't beat.
We are use to dark, tragic, bitter sweet or either "bad" ending but this is something else.
I don't say it's bad, or there is no place for it in gaming. Just that game are about control and too much lack of it can be off putting.
But I guess we are not talking about a game here, but really an interactive story, and a good one imo.
Please help me correct my check list if something is wrong or missing.
dude did you really sacrifice lady forrester? imagine she was your mother,would you do that to her?this is cruel,plus i hate ludd very much more than gryf, but sacrificing my mother,no wayyyyy,she was drinking the poison in front of me, i couldn't just sit and watch
<SPOILERS OF THE GAME AND THE BOOK>
I'm really dissapointed with the ending- there is still only the illusion of our choices. The determinant heroes (Asher/Rodrick, Mira) would be probably dead or forgotten at the beggining of next season.
Forresters are so similar to Starks... Both lost because of stupid mothers (both Catelyn and Elissa lost their brain in the most important political moments), other assosiations: Mira-Sansa, Rodrick-Robb, Gared-Jon, and imo Ryon-Arya (ok, firstly he is more similar to not-existing in book Rickon- maybe this would change soon, but his conversation with Ethan (about bad people have to be punished) and last scene while he is obviously willing to revenge made me think he would become the assasin of the God with Many Faces). That would mean Beshka would die or dissapear like the Sandor Clegane in Arya story. Ryon as Rickon and Beksha as Osha maybe make more sense, but Ryon as Arya is more interesting storyline for me. (and that would make Ryon come to Braavos, so we won't have all the Forresters in North)
Looking at these assosiations to Starks, I thought Mira would be rescued by Varys, I was sure Tom is his spy. That's why her death was a little shocking and dissapointing for me... Why they continue her story for so long to end it like that? They could at least make Tom sacrifise for Mira. And imo she doesn't have good replacement for a main hero in King's Landing now.
Who would we play if Mira is dead? Sera/Morgryn/Tom? Sera doesn't care about Forresters, Morgryn without Mira doesn't have chance too (he can search for Talia as a wife, but that would make him come to North, too many heroes there), Tom without Mira doesn't make sense too (and he can be dead instead of Mira). I had an idea that Talia would be sent to King's Landing for the help from Margaery, who would become a queen- she could meet Morgryn as well, but I'm not convinced to that.
From the heroes in King's Landing Morgryn is the most probable to play for me. Cersei can give him an offer to marry a girl similar to Mira (that would be similar to Ramsay Snow marrying unreal Sansa in book), but I'm not sure what advantage can Cersei have from that. Such situation would make Mira's story to similar point, no matter if she is dead or no.
And I think too many heroes are in North Grove, so next important choice wuld be to choose who would die: sister Snow, brother Snow or Sylvi. Imo no matter if we chose to go south or stay in North Grove, we would somehow be forced to stay behind Wall- too many characters are now in Forrester's House.
And I think Malcolm near Daenerys would appear, we need some Forrester to continue her story.
So to sum up, I think it's still the story of Forresters, so there is a chance that we would play: Rodrick/Asher(only in 1st episode imo, they would probably die at the beggining like Ethan), Morgryn, Talia, Ryon/Beksha (I hope for Ryon-assasin), Malcolm and Gared. I can probably be wrong, the hero of King's Landing is the most problematic for me.
I killed the traitor (Duncan in my game) and I don't regret it at all. Because of the traitor, the Whitehills knew that Asher was coming, which is why they ambushed him, and they knew how many men we had. They helped the Whitehills more than the Forresters
Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdQx3_mGDo&list=PLTo4Bf87EX5fBvG0L2TuEfiFrCDzlzX9w&index=11
Game is parallel to the TV series, that's why a lot of things couldn't happen, and why some could. For example, Varys totally was not able to rescue Mira, because at that point he was already sailing in sea with Tyrion, because they fled right after Joffrey got poisoned, and that was noticeable, if not mistaken, in some of the middle episodes (2, 3, or in 4th). They have to follow the events from TV series, how it will play out, from that they will be able to make gameplay scenarios for us.
Reading comments about how people comparing Forresters to Starks made me accept the idea/comparison of my own about Forresters and Starks, because I started to see the resemblance, plus, at the end, when Cersei talked about Forresters, that they didn't knew how to bend a knee, that they were full of dignity and courage, yet weak... They are still so loyal to House Stark (I think it depends of the choices ? I never will bend a knee, nor when I did, it had bad outcome, so I just replayed with "fu*k-the-kneeling" idea if everyone is still going to die).
Totally not possible because they are following the TV series, and TV series did not have time skipping, if only in the next season in 2016, but it wont happen, why should it, it would skip so much, and they have to set it up in such a way that it would take a whole season, but it wont, because The Winter is coming for a very long time, all seasons, and the last season was so dramatic and epic...the dead are coming closer, and now, they have bigger army, they are not resting, so there is no time skipping for now. Time skipping might work if Aria would be the only one left, and other characters are set for some years doing some sort of business, like Tyrion is being preparing with Daenerys and others collecting army, continuing training dragons and finally getting them under full control of their grown up selves. Aria learning the art of Faceless God or something.
Sansa probably survived and now is hiding, mastering some arts probably, learning how to fight, she might become some sort of warrior maiden, or maybe black magic and stuff, black magic suits her more (maybe something else, I might have forgotten some events and lines from last season), plus, it clearly says she survived the fall, it's not placed under "unknown" in wikia, but it is kinda unknown, maybe I missed something or forgot that gave away the obvious surviving chance.
So you see...these are options that require to be set in some ways that can't start right from the start in the next season, if it required to happen (have the time skipping), then it should have happened when Aria went to Essos, still wouldn't make sense, and it can't be after she got there, because the story still goes about introducing her to the Faceless God and everything, she hasn't started any kind of serious type of training, not yet.
Simply put, things are not the way they should for your wish to fulfill.
SEASON 4 SHOW SPOILERS
Varys and Tyrion fled after Tywin's death, not Joffery's
It kind of make sense, and maybe they don't have such creativity enough to start from ground up but to be based on something.
GoT seems to have a story where the children of the good family in a world where there is almost to zero good, where there is no place for such people, to actually have the greatest power at the end of the story, but to build the epic ending they require to build up anger to their last main characters, to do that it's obvious they have to go through such pain as witnessing their parents deaths, or hearing their deaths, to know people who did it, then going through some events that might include raping (Sansa basically was raped after wedding with Ramsey), a lot of beating and other kind of punishment, but these are the characters that WILL survive to the end or very close to the end, but they will get their revenge, they will get theirs, they have that very important thing in their life to cling for, to cling for their life, to survive so they can get revenge, and they are not that reckless like their other family members, and they had smart people that could give them options, good options, choices, and possible outcomes to each option they might take...it made them easier to choose, but at the same time they might have played someones cards, like Sansa was played by Baelish, because he wanted her, it wasn't kind of a band thing, cause he wanted her to survive because Sansa was just that fu*king hot, I mean...who doesn't want to have her in bed? Duuh.
Simple answer: They both survive either way, chose Rodrik, he will survive, choose Asher, he will survive.
I kinda wish to replay that part where I choose to marry that dickbutt, she seems to be the only that might kill her future "husband" in the bed and run away, or something like that, like the almost impossible situation with Sansa, where she actually got away, which seemed at the time quite impossible to run away from Ramsey. I took a pride too, wanted to spit in that dickbutt's face, but I raised my head, with pride, but didn't liked that she got beheaded, I would prefer to have that kid to be beheaded, but I have no idea why the fuck he stick with Mira...what was his role? I still don't know it.
P.S. You sound as if Lady survived somehow, or did something awesome when "fought" against Harys, I could barely call it a fight, in my way she simply stabbed once in the back of Harys, but you make it sound as if she fought like a warrior, evading, cutting and shi* like that
Tell me the truth, did she only stabbed once in the back of Harys and then got quickly stabbed once and died? That...wasn't badass, not for me. What was badass was when Asher pierced Gryff and I choose to say - "Shut the fuck up!", I totally had something similar in my head all the time at that point, it gave me freakin' chills for a bit and crazy Joker(from Batman) kinda laugh, sadly Gwyn stabbed me, at least Asher survived even the worst hit that came after...thought he totally died there, lost all hope after Lady got stabbed deadly before Asher took a hit.
He is not dead whatsoever, he's simply so beaten up, imagine...he was stabbed with a fucking greatsword, got a real badly injured wound, I'm amazed he is alive. If he would die, then either he wouldn't be showed at the end and would have died at the Ironrath, or we would have seen that nobody would have come to look for him in the woods, we would seee him falling from horse and simply not moving, not even eyes, but he was waking up from a fall, but quickly fell unconscious again, because of blood loss and great deal damage.
That information about Asher is useless, already since Asher reunited with Rodrik...especially when you play later as Asher instead of Rodrik, either way, if you play as Rodrik, Asher obviously dies...still no use from that info about Asher...
It seems I will have to replay that part and kill Duncan instead of imprisoning, cause I wish Royland to be alive and keep surviving with me, I see no use from Duncan even if he would survive...but then again, Rodrik is not a person to even kill traitor that didn't had big bad intentions. Maybe he has info about Whitehills...maybe it might come in handy...eh, tough choice, when it was easy (?)...
Varys still has his "birds" in King's Landing, he didn't need to release Mira by himself- just by his command.
Comparing Forresters to Starks came naturally to me- good people with honour which you like must die or lose, no matter if yo play GoT game or read GoT book or watch GoT movie
Yeah but for someone who's likely never lifted a weapon in her life, saving us by stabbing a warrior in the back is badass.
Lord Forrester can end up with Talia and the traitor too (if you spared his life). And it's always Talia and one person who will come to the lord's rescue (as you mentioned them before). With Rodrik... I think there can only be the Sentinel or the traitor.
No it makes no difference. Beska rescues him regardless.
@Handsome Rhys I really like this idea, but sadly I don't think Telltale are really capable of doing this. I might be wrong and they might surprise us, I don't think it's likely though.
@Harian96
YES FINALLY someone who thinks like I do!
I'm thinking along the lines of kill Morgryn and escape. I think Telltale have royally screwed up this time! Mira's story line could have so much potential.
@MHT22 personally I would've been surprised if they hadn't lost Ironrath. I fully expected them to lose it because that is basically what has been building up all season.