Even though my post wasn't directed at you, thanks for pointing that out and i admit I missed that even though I quoted it lol but i think we're all entitled to a blonde moment
Kenny didn't hate jane he didn't trust her it wasn't the same with lilly he hates her but trust her till she shoot's a person in the group trust was the gear of the game in season2.
I don't understand people that say that Kenny would turn on Clem if AJ died under her care, just like he did to Jane.
Are you just ignori… moreng how much Kenny and Jane already didn't like each other and this was what pushed Jane to a point of no return, in Kenny's eyes???
Meanwhile Kenny had begun to see Clem as a sort of adopted daughter, and that her and AJ were the only things keeping him going in the first place. I don't doubt that Kenny would've been furious/broken over it, but I don't believe that he would've come close to actually trying to hurt Clem in any way.
Everything contributes. But I seriously doubt Arvo would have shot clementine if he'd been treated kindly instead of held prisoner and physically abused.
And i think that he would have shot her regardless. I've said why i think so in previous posts in the past
Everything contributes. But I seriously doubt Arvo would have shot clementine if he'd been treated kindly instead of held prisoner and physi… morecally abused.
For one thing Mike wouldn't have tried to help him escape, because there'd be no-one to escape from.
Isnt losing her whole family comparable to what he went through?
it is comparable but very different with each person. Did Jane lose her parents before the apocalypse? I don't think it was clear but obviously she did and of course we can compare her loss to Kenny's for example. I guess because we actually witnessed Kenny's loss that some of us feel differently about it and sympathise with him more because we also knew Katjaa and Duck where as Jane's family or Luke's parents we know nothing about. This is the way i see it though
I replayed the game with different choices and ended up liking Kenny best after all, even though I found him unstable and selfish. The other options were worse in my view.
As for Arvo, there was no way to make him act right. So the most emotionally satisfying option was to support Kenny all the way. I'm dying to see what this will mean for season 3.
I don't think your opinion is different from what @KCohere is saying. It is comparable, and it is different. It's also a fact that some people didn't relate as much to Jane because we didn't witness her struggle, just like you said; whether that's correct or incorrect is another matter.
Isnt losing her whole family comparable to what he went through?
it is comparable but very different with each person. Did Jane lose… more her parents before the apocalypse? I don't think it was clear but obviously she did and of course we can compare her loss to Kenny's for example. I guess because we actually witnessed Kenny's loss that some of us feel differently about it and sympathise with him more because we also knew Katjaa and Duck where as Jane's family or Luke's parents we know nothing about. This is the way i see it though
I thought Kenny was already deranged in the first season. In season 2 episode 2 his crazy laughing and the look of joy on his face when he first killed one of Carver's men like he was a serial killer made me want to get away from him but having a psycho on your side can be helpful sometimes. If we could have kept him caged up like a wild beast and let him out when we needed someones face smashed that might have worked.
I don't think your opinion is different from what @KCohere is saying. It is comparable, and it is different. It's also a fact that some peop… morele didn't relate as much to Jane because we didn't witness her struggle, just like you said; whether that's correct or incorrect is another matter.
Her sister was trying to drag her into death too. You could argue that Jaime was being selfish too , risking her sister's life like that. Except I don't see anyone blaming HER.
I don't think Kenny laughed when shot Carver's first guy. He said: "Got him!" and reacted with horror as Carver murdered Walt. And when Sarita was in danger, unless you stop him when Alvin was up next on the chopping block, he gives up once Sarita is threatened.
He does the same thing for Clementine, if you have her surrender when she's with Alvin and Becky - (Rebecca).
I thought Kenny was already deranged in the first season. In season 2 episode 2 his crazy laughing and the look of joy on his face when he f… moreirst killed one of Carver's men like he was a serial killer made me want to get away from him but having a psycho on your side can be helpful sometimes. If we could have kept him caged up like a wild beast and let him out when we needed someones face smashed that might have worked.
Jaime is to be judged too, though I think that we can explain why she was being selfish toward her sister with the fact that she was suicidal. She just didn't give a crap, and in her eyes, Jane was forcing her to live through hell.
Some people didn't quite understand that Jane wouldn't have been able to save Jaime anyway. They were trapped and the only exit was a skylight, and when Jane said that she couldn't throw her, she literally meant that gravity stopped her, not her own emotions nor inner conflict.
Her sister was trying to drag her into death too. You could argue that Jaime was being selfish too , risking her sister's life like that. Except I don't see anyone blaming HER.
The point I was trying to make was , if Jane is at fault , so is her sister. Blaming the loved ones of suicide victims is almost always as pointless as blaming the victim themselves.
Jaime is to be judged too, though I think that we can explain why she was being selfish toward her sister with the fact that she was suicida… morel. She just didn't give a crap, and in her eyes, Jane was forcing her to live through hell.
Some people didn't quite understand that Jane wouldn't have been able to save Jaime anyway. They were trapped and the only exit was a skylight, and when Jane said that she couldn't throw her, she literally meant that gravity stopped her, not her own emotions nor inner conflict.
I don't think Kenny laughed when shot Carver's first guy. He said: "Got him!" and reacted with horror as Carver murdered Walt. And when Sari… moreta was in danger, unless you stop him when Alvin was up next on the chopping block, he gives up once Sarita is threatened.
He does the same thing for Clementine, if you have her surrender when she's with Alvin and Becky - (Rebecca).
Since we're on the topic of 'cherry-picking facial expressions and interpreting them in a negative light in order to vilify a character, so we can act justified in how we feel about them', what does this face mean:
Lee must be a cold-blooded psychopath reveling in the joy of pulling a grieving daughter away from her dad
This one cherry-picked facial expression proves he is without a doubt an asshole
Since we're on the topic of 'cherry-picking facial expressions and interpreting them in a negative light in order to vilify a character, so … morewe can act justified in how we feel about them', what does this face mean:
Lee must be a cold-blooded psychopath reveling in the joy of pulling a grieving daughter away from her dad
This one cherry-picked facial expression proves he is without a doubt an asshole
Since we're on the topic of 'cherry-picking facial expressions and interpreting them in a negative light in order to vilify a character, so … morewe can act justified in how we feel about them', what does this face mean:
Lee must be a cold-blooded psychopath reveling in the joy of pulling a grieving daughter away from her dad
This one cherry-picked facial expression proves he is without a doubt an asshole
Im pretty sure people understand that losing his family effected his mentality just fine. The problem is using that to excuse his behavior when it has happened to literally everyone else.
Im pretty sure people understand that losing his family effected his mentality just fine. The problem is using that to excuse his behavior when it has happened to literally everyone else.
I agree! I wasn't blaming Jane; I was saying that from Jaime's perspective, Jane was dragging her against her will. The situation just made it that way.
I know , I was being facetious.
The point I was trying to make was , if Jane is at fault , so is her sister. Blaming the loved ones of suicide victims is almost always as pointless as blaming the victim themselves.
So him laughing at a terrible joke makes him crazy from that? That's a crazy laugh is it? Um ok if you think that but i've heard and seen worse.
and the look of joy on his face when he first killed one of Carver's men like he was a serial killer made me want to get away from him
It wasn't great the way he went about the whole scene at the lodge as he didn't think of the consequences but he was trying to help the group which was more than could be said for Luke. Again it's your opinion but i find it harsh to suggest he looked like a serial killer and when everyone in the apocalypse kills to survive but i guess that's how you see it.
I thought Kenny was already deranged in the first season. In season 2 episode 2 his crazy laughing and the look of joy on his face when he f… moreirst killed one of Carver's men like he was a serial killer made me want to get away from him but having a psycho on your side can be helpful sometimes. If we could have kept him caged up like a wild beast and let him out when we needed someones face smashed that might have worked.
The issue is that @TWDazehnuu uses grief to justify Kenny's actions—and that is completely valid in my opinion, as long as they also consider that grief can justify Jane's actions and Carver's actions and Sarah's actions and, I don't know, Michelle's actions too.
Kenny isn't on higher moral ground because he has lost people.
The problem is using that to excuse his behavior when it has happened to literally everyone else.
it doesn't excuse his behaviour no, but grief affects everyone differently and some lose it worse than others do
Lee looks like he is really focused on restraining Lilly to me. Kenny is proud and chuckling after killing Johnny, but he doesn't want Clem to realize it.
BetterToSleep i agree, he isn't on higher moral ground than others because the situation is the same for many other characters. I think the reason a lot of people feel differently is because of the journey with him, getting to know his wife and kid, seeing him lose both of them the way he did made those who like Kenny feel a lot of sympathy for him where as we never saw Jane lose her parents and sister or Luke losing his family, Nick losing his mum, Vernon losing his daughter, Brie's family etc. Just hearing it isn't the same, we never got to bond with these characters families or people they lost. Of course we feel sympathy for all these characters but it is different. But again you are right that Kenny's loss should not be thought of as worse than other people's losses
The issue is that @TWDazehnuu uses grief to justify Kenny's actions—and that is completely valid in my opinion, as long as they also conside… morer that grief can justify Jane's actions and Carver's actions and Sarah's actions and, I don't know, Michelle's actions too.
Kenny isn't on higher moral ground because he has lost people.
Those really are good points. The majority of players empathize with Kenny because we were with him when all that happened and we saw him react, whereas most of those who empathize with Jane more than Kenny:
were tired of Kenny making reckless calls;
understood Jane on a deeper level, despite not being there at the time.
Of course, that doesn't mean that those who like Kenny more than Jane are wrong.
BetterToSleep i agree, he isn't on higher moral ground than others because the situation is the same for many other characters. I think the … morereason a lot of people feel differently is because of the journey with him, getting to know his wife and kid, seeing him lose both of them the way he did made those who like Kenny feel a lot of sympathy for him where as we never saw Jane lose her parents and sister or Luke losing his family, Nick losing his mum, Vernon losing his daughter, Brie's family etc. Just hearing it isn't the same, we never got to bond with these characters families or people they lost. Of course we feel sympathy for all these characters but it is different. But again you are right that Kenny's loss should not be thought of as worse than other people's losses
We are are supposed to be laughing about this I took out the part about how they should have let us help Carver beat him to death. If I didn't think Kenny was a maniac and he irritated me so much it would not have been as fun for me. The serial killer part and locking him in the cage I thought were pretty funny the laughing thing I am not wedded too but I thought he was pretty goofy when we were in the ski lodge before the shoot out.
In season 2 episode 2 his crazy laughing
So him laughing at a terrible joke makes him crazy from that? That's a crazy laugh is it? U… morem ok if you think that but i've heard and seen worse.
and the look of joy on his face when he first killed one of Carver's men like he was a serial killer made me want to get away from him
It wasn't great the way he went about the whole scene at the lodge as he didn't think of the consequences but he was trying to help the group which was more than could be said for Luke. Again it's your opinion but i find it harsh to suggest he looked like a serial killer and when everyone in the apocalypse kills to survive but i guess that's how you see it.
I'm just not seeing Kenny's little smirk as some kind of murderous joy. I'm seeing it more as smug satisfaction that he landed the shot, and him turning away isn't some deliberate attempt to 'hide' his smile from Clementine, he was simply looking back up at the lodge.
That's what I was trying to get at in my post (in a sarcastic, maybe-overly sardonic way); we're taking singular facial expressions -- one out of god knows how many -- and trying to interpret them in a negative light. Trying to make an issue where there really isn't one. Lee's face could mean a lot of things; it could be interpreted in different ways. But you know what? So can Kenny's. Sure, having a smirk on your face has more concise connotations as to what it means, but it doesn't immediately mean you're reveling in joy about killing someone.
I'm all about giving the benefit of the doubt, and like I said, I just don't see that as joy. Not to mention there's not a single other time where Kenny ever smiled/smirked after killing someone. Not Larry. Not Carver. Not the Russians. Not Jane. Not even when he beat up Arvo. This is the single time we've seen this expression. If Kenny was slowly going insane or developing psychopathic tendencies, you'd think you'd see him do something like this more often, not just as a one-off thing, especially considering how his kill count rises exponentially in S2 (his only direct kill in S1 was Larry)
Lee looks like he is really focused on restraining Lilly to me. Kenny is proud and chuckling after killing Johnny, but he doesn't want Clem to realize it.
Since we're on the topic of 'cherry-picking facial expressions and interpreting them in a negative light in order to vilify a character, so … morewe can act justified in how we feel about them', what does this face mean:
Lee must be a cold-blooded psychopath reveling in the joy of pulling a grieving daughter away from her dad
This one cherry-picked facial expression proves he is without a doubt an asshole
I believed I had been clear with my opinion, but I suppose I was wrong. I think that Kenny was "proud and chuckling" precisely because he was happy that he had hit Johnny, not because he enjoyed killing him.
I'm just not seeing Kenny's little smirk as some kind of murderous joy. I'm seeing it more as smug satisfaction that he landed the shot, and… more him turning away isn't some deliberate attempt to 'hide' his smile from Clementine, he was simply looking back up at the lodge.
That's what I was trying to get at in my post (in a sarcastic, maybe-overly sardonic way); we're taking singular facial expressions -- one out of god knows how many -- and trying to interpret them in a negative light. Trying to make an issue where there really isn't one. Lee's face could mean a lot of things; it could be interpreted in different ways. But you know what? So can Kenny's. Sure, having a smirk on your face has more concise connotations as to what it means, but it doesn't immediately mean you're reveling in joy about killing someone.
I'm all about giving the benefit of the doubt, and like I said, I just don't see that as joy. Not to mention there's not a single… [view original content]
I believed I had been clear with my opinion, but I suppose I was wrong. I think that Kenny was "proud and chuckling" precisely because he was happy that he had hit Johnny, not because he enjoyed killing him.
I agree! I wasn't blaming Jane; I was saying that from Jaime's perspective, Jane was dragging her against her will. The situation just made it that way.
Comments
Even though my post wasn't directed at you, thanks for pointing that out and i admit I missed that even though I quoted it lol but i think we're all entitled to a blonde moment
Isnt losing her whole family comparable to what he went through?
Tragedy and grief effects everyone differently. There is no one set rule as to how people process grief.
Kenny didn't hate jane he didn't trust her it wasn't the same with lilly he hates her but trust her till she shoot's a person in the group trust was the gear of the game in season2.
And i think that he would have shot her regardless. I've said why i think so in previous posts in the past
it is comparable but very different with each person. Did Jane lose her parents before the apocalypse? I don't think it was clear but obviously she did and of course we can compare her loss to Kenny's for example. I guess because we actually witnessed Kenny's loss that some of us feel differently about it and sympathise with him more because we also knew Katjaa and Duck where as Jane's family or Luke's parents we know nothing about. This is the way i see it though
I replayed the game with different choices and ended up liking Kenny best after all, even though I found him unstable and selfish. The other options were worse in my view.
As for Arvo, there was no way to make him act right. So the most emotionally satisfying option was to support Kenny all the way. I'm dying to see what this will mean for season 3.
When did she act like that?
And Kenny acts as a temperamental, reckless, violent and argumentative asshole. How is he any better than the psychotic, emotionless bitch?
I don't think your opinion is different from what @KCohere is saying. It is comparable, and it is different. It's also a fact that some people didn't relate as much to Jane because we didn't witness her struggle, just like you said; whether that's correct or incorrect is another matter.
I thought Kenny was already deranged in the first season. In season 2 episode 2 his crazy laughing and the look of joy on his face when he first killed one of Carver's men like he was a serial killer made me want to get away from him but having a psycho on your side can be helpful sometimes. If we could have kept him caged up like a wild beast and let him out when we needed someones face smashed that might have worked.
Sorry when i said different with each person I was meaning different with each character, apologies
Her sister was trying to drag her into death too. You could argue that Jaime was being selfish too , risking her sister's life like that. Except I don't see anyone blaming HER.
I don't think Kenny laughed when shot Carver's first guy. He said: "Got him!" and reacted with horror as Carver murdered Walt. And when Sarita was in danger, unless you stop him when Alvin was up next on the chopping block, he gives up once Sarita is threatened.
He does the same thing for Clementine, if you have her surrender when she's with Alvin and Becky - (Rebecca).
Kenny is no monster, his intentions are good.
Jaime is to be judged too, though I think that we can explain why she was being selfish toward her sister with the fact that she was suicidal. She just didn't give a crap, and in her eyes, Jane was forcing her to live through hell.
Some people didn't quite understand that Jane wouldn't have been able to save Jaime anyway. They were trapped and the only exit was a skylight, and when Jane said that she couldn't throw her, she literally meant that gravity stopped her, not her own emotions nor inner conflict.
I know , I was being facetious.
The point I was trying to make was , if Jane is at fault , so is her sister. Blaming the loved ones of suicide victims is almost always as pointless as blaming the victim themselves.
This look on his face right after he kills Johnny I think is the guys name.
ahahahaha
Since we're on the topic of 'cherry-picking facial expressions and interpreting them in a negative light in order to vilify a character, so we can act justified in how we feel about them', what does this face mean:
Lee must be a cold-blooded psychopath reveling in the joy of pulling a grieving daughter away from her dad
This one cherry-picked facial expression proves he is without a doubt an asshole
Here is a gif of the scene it seems pretty clear to me he even hides his smile from Clem. He is not murder crazy at all.
You cant really tell anything from Lee's expression here. He has a furrowed brow. He could be mad, worried, tired, anything.
Im pretty sure people understand that losing his family effected his mentality just fine. The problem is using that to excuse his behavior when it has happened to literally everyone else.
it doesn't excuse his behaviour no, but grief affects everyone differently and some lose it worse than others do
I agree! I wasn't blaming Jane; I was saying that from Jaime's perspective, Jane was dragging her against her will. The situation just made it that way.
So him laughing at a terrible joke makes him crazy from that? That's a crazy laugh is it? Um ok if you think that but i've heard and seen worse.
It wasn't great the way he went about the whole scene at the lodge as he didn't think of the consequences but he was trying to help the group which was more than could be said for Luke. Again it's your opinion but i find it harsh to suggest he looked like a serial killer and when everyone in the apocalypse kills to survive but i guess that's how you see it.
The issue is that @TWDazehnuu uses grief to justify Kenny's actions—and that is completely valid in my opinion, as long as they also consider that grief can justify Jane's actions and Carver's actions and Sarah's actions and, I don't know, Michelle's actions too.
Kenny isn't on higher moral ground because he has lost people.
Lee looks like he is really focused on restraining Lilly to me. Kenny is proud and chuckling after killing Johnny, but he doesn't want Clem to realize it.
BetterToSleep i agree, he isn't on higher moral ground than others because the situation is the same for many other characters. I think the reason a lot of people feel differently is because of the journey with him, getting to know his wife and kid, seeing him lose both of them the way he did made those who like Kenny feel a lot of sympathy for him where as we never saw Jane lose her parents and sister or Luke losing his family, Nick losing his mum, Vernon losing his daughter, Brie's family etc. Just hearing it isn't the same, we never got to bond with these characters families or people they lost. Of course we feel sympathy for all these characters but it is different. But again you are right that Kenny's loss should not be thought of as worse than other people's losses
Those really are good points. The majority of players empathize with Kenny because we were with him when all that happened and we saw him react, whereas most of those who empathize with Jane more than Kenny:
Of course, that doesn't mean that those who like Kenny more than Jane are wrong.
We are are supposed to be laughing about this I took out the part about how they should have let us help Carver beat him to death. If I didn't think Kenny was a maniac and he irritated me so much it would not have been as fun for me. The serial killer part and locking him in the cage I thought were pretty funny the laughing thing I am not wedded too but I thought he was pretty goofy when we were in the ski lodge before the shoot out.
I'm just not seeing Kenny's little smirk as some kind of murderous joy. I'm seeing it more as smug satisfaction that he landed the shot, and him turning away isn't some deliberate attempt to 'hide' his smile from Clementine, he was simply looking back up at the lodge.
That's what I was trying to get at in my post (in a sarcastic, maybe-overly sardonic way); we're taking singular facial expressions -- one out of god knows how many -- and trying to interpret them in a negative light. Trying to make an issue where there really isn't one. Lee's face could mean a lot of things; it could be interpreted in different ways. But you know what? So can Kenny's. Sure, having a smirk on your face has more concise connotations as to what it means, but it doesn't immediately mean you're reveling in joy about killing someone.
I'm all about giving the benefit of the doubt, and like I said, I just don't see that as joy. Not to mention there's not a single other time where Kenny ever smiled/smirked after killing someone. Not Larry. Not Carver. Not the Russians. Not Jane. Not even when he beat up Arvo. This is the single time we've seen this expression. If Kenny was slowly going insane or developing psychopathic tendencies, you'd think you'd see him do something like this more often, not just as a one-off thing, especially considering how his kill count rises exponentially in S2 (his only direct kill in S1 was Larry)
But this isnt a passive or neutral expression, as the gif shows they clearly did it specifically for a reason.
I believed I had been clear with my opinion, but I suppose I was wrong. I think that Kenny was "proud and chuckling" precisely because he was happy that he had hit Johnny, not because he enjoyed killing him.
You know, I actually just realized that I replied to the wrong post
That wasn't meant to be aimed at you
Yeah , but the comment I made with the point wasn't meant to be directed towards you ; it was supposed to be for TWDazehnuu.
Oh, crap! I apologize, then.
It's okay , I should have made it more clear.