Not saying Clementine wasn't at fault. But please explain to me how two grown ass adults leaving a 10-year-old in a bathroom by herself isn't as bad as a mistake as leaving your gun on the sink?
What are we talking about? Them putting clem in unnecessary danger, or Clem getting Omid killed?
Even if they all checked the bathrooms, why would stay stick around next to Clem?
Not saying Clementine wasn't at fault. But please explain to me how two grown ass adults leaving a 10-year-old in a bathroom by herself isn'… moret as bad as a mistake as leaving your gun on the sink? Sure you can argue that leaving your gun on the sink can get someone killed, but leaving Clementine in the bathroom by herself without even checking it, could've also gotten Clementine killed. I believe Christa, Omid, and Clementine share the same amount of blame.
They should've at least stayed with Clem to prevent exactly what happened. Let's say Clem took her gun with her, Michelle (the woman who shot Omid) still could've managed to overpower Clementine and take her gun. That's why I don't hold Clementine accountable as much because Omid and Christa should've stayed with her.
Not saying Clementine wasn't at fault. But please explain to me how two grown ass adults leaving a 10-year-old in a bathroom by herself isn'… moret as bad as a mistake as leaving your gun on the sink?
What are we talking about? Them putting clem in unnecessary danger, or Clem getting Omid killed?
Even if they all checked the bathrooms, why would stay stick around next to Clem?
Between him murdering an unconscious father in the presence of a terrified daughter and small child, screaming obscenities at the same child as a result of his girlfriends' demise regardless of if she had a hand in it or not, and him endangering the same child yet again on multiple occasions indirectly or not.
I'd certainly consider him a monster.
Between him murdering an unconscious father in the presence of a terrified daughter and small child… more, screaming obscenities at the same child as a result of his girlfriends' demise regardless of if she had a hand in it or not, and him endangering the same child yet again on multiple occasions indirectly or not.
After the group has the argument about where to go in Episode Five , if you don't agree with Kenny , he will scold you and say he expected better from you. He pulls a guilt trip to try and make you see HIS way.
Sounds like bullshit because I've done playthroughs where I didn't side with him at that part and I don't remember him saying that. But to give you the benefit of the doubt, let's say it is true, how exactly is that manipulating? Do you know what that word means?
This entire post shows what's wrong with the nastier side of the Kenny fandom
You say this while acting hostile towards me, calling me an idiot and a son of a bitch? Lol.
You won't admit anything he does is wrong. You make up excuses for him and treat him like he's the fucking god of boats and birds , and that as long as precious Kenny does it , that automatically makes it the right thing to do.
I can tell that you're underage just from this part alone. I didn't exhibit any of those behaviors, but because I disagree with you, you talk about me like I'm a typical Kenny fan. It also demonstrates the "not even trying to understand Kenny" point I made earlier. There's usually good, or at the very least, understandable reasons for what Kenny does, but because you don't like him/don't agree with them, you call them excuses instead.
Thinking about it further being underage may also have something to do with why Kenny haters hate Kenny. He has strong good points but he also has problems. He's also one of the few characters who treats you differently depending on how you treat him. Because of these things Kenny seems more like a real person rather than a video game character, and guess what, real relationships involve compromise and modesty, something today's narcissistic kids have no concept of. It's not about ignoring Kenny's flaws or "making excuses" for them. It's about putting your trust in him and sticking with him, DESPITE the fact that he has flaws. Today's kids have spent too much time on the internet with no in real life relationships to keep them grounded, and as a result they no concept of compromise or middle ground. Which is funny since that's apparently one of the reasons why Kenny haters hate Kenny.
Either way , she's dead.
Yes, but if Clem cuts her arm off it causes Sarita to be swarmed by zombies killing her more quickly than if she had just been bitten. Clem's responsible for that, and you can take it even further than that by dropping an axe in Sarita's face right after it happens.
You're right, it's not. Because there's nothing in the game that indicates that Carver has any sort of good in him, nor does he have a history of being selfless and caring for others. The game never portrays him in positive light, nor does he have any positive qualities. He's not misunderstood, or even an ambiguous villain, he's just an asshole with no redeemable qualities whatsoever.
whether that fits your perception of how the character 'should be' or not, because Kenny is, and only is, the product of writing.
This argument works just as much against you as it supposedly does against me. Regardless of how he's portrayed in season 2's final episode, his endings in that episode, as well as past actions, show that Kenny isn't the monster you think he is, and how you personally feel about him doesn't change that.
But the character IS the writing.
I mean, I could say 'Carver is actually really lovely and not at all sociopathic, telltale just portray… moreed him as evil'. That's not a valid argument. If telltale wanted to write Kenny as psychopathic in season 2, and he was psychopahic, then season 2 kenyn is psychopathic, whether that fits your perception of how the character 'should be' or not, because Kenny is, and only is, the product of writing.
As stated a million times before, you can't say he was unconscious implying he was alive because there was no definite proof of this. Larry stopped breathing, he could have died right there and then and before you say it, him twitching during CPR does not mean he was alive. People have been known to twich when they die as the body is slowly shutting itself down, or in another case, he was about to reanimate. Point is, TTG made it unclear deliberately so we will never know for sure. He could have been alive or dead and that's that.
I'm not even going there on the other stuff you said because you know how i feel about all that lol
I'd certainly consider him a monster.
Between him murdering an unconscious father in the presence of a terrified daughter and small child… more, screaming obscenities at the same child as a result of his girlfriends' demise regardless of if she had a hand in it or not, and him endangering the same child yet again on multiple occasions indirectly or not.
Firstly, I don't think kenny's a monster and have never stated that, don't conflate people who don't like Kenny into one amorphous blob.
You could argue that the fact that Rebecca had an emotional connection to him indicates goodness. Or that he's the leader of a successful community.
If a character is written as a bad person with some good sides, that's who they are - a bad person with some good sides. It doesn't mean they'#re a good person and the writers have decided to try and ruin them any more than it means they're a bad person and the writers have just tried to add in some good stuff for balance.
Kenny has good and bad sides, and Kenny is only as much as he is written, as every single character. You seem to be wanting to explain away most instances of Kenny acting in a way you don't like to writers having an agenda against a character you like. Why can't it be the case that the character actually DOES have good and bad sides, like, you know, real people?
By your logic I could just as easily claim that Jane is the best person ever, and telltale just wrote in bad things. But that doesn't make sense, because the reason I'd think jane is good is because of the writing too.
It's just picking and choosing the bits of the writing you like, and labelling the bits you don't like as wrong, instead of accepting Kenny's character, and all other characters, as an amalgam of both.
That's not a valid argument.
You're right, it's not. Because there's nothing in the game that indicates that Carver has any sort of … moregood in him, nor does he have a history of being selfless and caring for others. The game never portrays him in positive light, nor does he have any positive qualities. He's not misunderstood, or even an ambiguous villain, he's just an asshole with no redeemable qualities whatsoever.
whether that fits your perception of how the character 'should be' or not, because Kenny is, and only is, the product of writing.
This argument works just as much against you as it supposedly does against me. Regardless of how he's portrayed in season 2's final episode, his endings in that episode, as well as past actions, show that Kenny isn't the monster you think he is, and how you personally feel about him doesn't change that.
Firstly, I don't think kenny's a monster and have never stated that, don't conflate people who don't like Kenny into one amorphous blob.
… moreYou could argue that the fact that Rebecca had an emotional connection to him indicates goodness. Or that he's the leader of a successful community.
If a character is written as a bad person with some good sides, that's who they are - a bad person with some good sides. It doesn't mean they'#re a good person and the writers have decided to try and ruin them any more than it means they're a bad person and the writers have just tried to add in some good stuff for balance.
Kenny has good and bad sides, and Kenny is only as much as he is written, as every single character. You seem to be wanting to explain away most instances of Kenny acting in a way you don't like to writers having an agenda against a character you like. Why can't it be the case that the character actually DOES have good and bad sides, … [view original content]
Firstly, I don't think kenny's a monster and have never stated that, don't conflate people who don't like Kenny into one amorphous blob.
… moreYou could argue that the fact that Rebecca had an emotional connection to him indicates goodness. Or that he's the leader of a successful community.
If a character is written as a bad person with some good sides, that's who they are - a bad person with some good sides. It doesn't mean they'#re a good person and the writers have decided to try and ruin them any more than it means they're a bad person and the writers have just tried to add in some good stuff for balance.
Kenny has good and bad sides, and Kenny is only as much as he is written, as every single character. You seem to be wanting to explain away most instances of Kenny acting in a way you don't like to writers having an agenda against a character you like. Why can't it be the case that the character actually DOES have good and bad sides, … [view original content]
I was actually THERE when it happened, you just saw it and think you know the full story so shut the hell up- I actually smelt the blood, saw the skull be crushed, and I still relive it sometimes in my sleep- Stop assuming you know everything.
I'm sorry, I can get a little Salty over this particular incident when people say this stuff and can't back it up...
Do you know who you're talking to?
I was actually THERE when it happened, you just saw it and think you know the full story so shut the h… moreell up- I actually smelt the blood, saw the skull be crushed, and I still relive it sometimes in my sleep- Stop assuming you know everything.
I'm sorry, I can get a little Salty over this particular incident when people say this stuff and can't back it up...
No, we do know he was able to be resucitated. I've explained it countless times.
His mouth moves if you push on his chest enough times when helping Lilly. This only happens if you push on the chest enough times - if you don't it stays still.
Pushing on someone's chest wouldn't speed up reanimation, nor would it cause twitching that would not otherwise have occurred according to any biology I've studied.
It was therefore only a breath/regaining of bodily.
However, the fact that Larry was revivable is arguably irrelevant, since Kenny couldn't have known this. His mistake was thus understandable, but he could and should have acted more sensibly - as the Greg situation showed us, it's pretty obvious when someone reanimates in the game, so he could have held the saltlick next to his head (or put it on the ground till needed) to first see if he was indeed revivable.
Thus Kenny's actions are understandable, and even arguably right, despite the fact that Larry could be revived. It definitely wasn't murder, though I can't help but feel that he would have been more allowing of resuscitation attempts if it was Katjaa in that situation.
Sigh
As stated a million times before, you can't say he was unconscious implying he was alive because there was no definite proof of this… more. Larry stopped breathing, he could have died right there and then and before you say it, him twitching during CPR does not mean he was alive. People have been known to twich when they die as the body is slowly shutting itself down, or in another case, he was about to reanimate. Point is, TTG made it unclear deliberately so we will never know for sure. He could have been alive or dead and that's that.
I'm not even going there on the other stuff you said because you know how i feel about all that lol
It's no more suicidal than travelling back to Howe's, which the last time they saw had both enemy guards and a gigantic herd outside. They could travel back there, and risk the place being overrun, hence a wasted journey, or they could search for Wellington, which for all they knew could have been just around the corner. I think both plan's carried risks, I just think Wellington seemed a safer bet.
And I don't think the cold was the main problem, the lack of immediate supplies seemed a bigger problem. Seeing as both were 9 days away, neither of them can claim a victory on that. From an in-game perspective, Wellington could have been well stocked as from what we heard, and seemed a safe haven.
And I mentioned the last argument in case you argued 'But Howe's was safe in the end', you didn't but I just covered that in case
The Wellington plan was no more suicidal than Jane's play to Howe's
You are seriously saying that looking for place they have no def… moreinite proof of, in winter, without proper supplies and equipment, is not suicidal?
Nothing suicidal about scouting out Howes, but the main thing was getting away from the cold.
But then again, in hindsight, we know Wellington existed and was safe
Whats the point of even mentioning this? Its irrelevant that Wellington actually existed in the game. You cant judge a plan itself after knowing the outcome.
Right ok but im not going to accept that as a fact if that is what you are stating because like I said, telltale never confirmed he was alive or dead at that point and was based on players perception of the scene. By the way, how do you know that pushing on his chest wouldn't speed up reanimation? There's not been enough research by survivors in that life to know for sure. Maybe by pushing on his chest it made him start reacting to being pushed on and made him twitch? Personally I don't think he was reanimating but i do think he was dead and that's my take on it ok? Alive or dead we were never to know for sure. It's all speculation and always will be and there's just no point in saying he or she is right or wrong about it. What happened, happened anyway so the whole thing doesn't matter anymore
No, we do know he was able to be resucitated. I've explained it countless times.
His mouth moves if you push on his chest enough times wh… moreen helping Lilly. This only happens if you push on the chest enough times - if you don't it stays still.
Pushing on someone's chest wouldn't speed up reanimation, nor would it cause twitching that would not otherwise have occurred according to any biology I've studied.
It was therefore only a breath/regaining of bodily.
However, the fact that Larry was revivable is arguably irrelevant, since Kenny couldn't have known this. His mistake was thus understandable, but he could and should have acted more sensibly - as the Greg situation showed us, it's pretty obvious when someone reanimates in the game, so he could have held the saltlick next to his head (or put it on the ground till needed) to first see if he was indeed revivable.
Thus Kenny's actions are understandable, and even arguably right, de… [view original content]
Well ok. I mean that's the same as saying 'Lee might still be alive' because Telltale hasn't confirmed it, depite overwhelming evidence.
And pushing on the chest wouldn't speed up reanimation because..why on earth would it? Pushing on people's chests don't speed up viruses or infections, why would this one?
His mouth wasn't being moved just as a natural reaction to being pushed because he only does it once, not each time you push.
You're only believing he was dead, despite no realn't revivable to supprot your opinion rather than being objective. I'm sayign whether he's dead or not has little bearing on the morality of Kenny's choices so showing that Larry was revivable isn't out of any desperation to prove that one choice is right or not.
He was revivable as much as Lee is dead, even if telltale confirmed neither. This has little to no relevance to the moral choice.
What happened, happened anyway so the whole thing doesn't matter anymore
Right ok but im not going to accept that as a fact if that is what you are stating because like I said, telltale never confirmed he was aliv… moree or dead at that point and was based on players perception of the scene. By the way, how do you know that pushing on his chest wouldn't speed up reanimation? There's not been enough research by survivors in that life to know for sure. Maybe by pushing on his chest it made him start reacting to being pushed on and made him twitch? Personally I don't think he was reanimating but i do think he was dead and that's my take on it ok? Alive or dead we were never to know for sure. It's all speculation and always will be and there's just no point in saying he or she is right or wrong about it. What happened, happened anyway so the whole thing doesn't matter anymore
Well ok. I mean that's the same as saying 'Lee might still be alive' because Telltale hasn't confirmed it, depite overwhelming evidence.
Its not the same at all. We knew that Lee died, Telltale didn't need to confirm that but Larry we do not know and never will for certain thats the difference,
Listen please accept my opinion and i will accept yours. I really don't need to hear this or be told by people who think they are right when neither you or me are. This is what i think and your evidence isn't evidence to me and you can think what you like of my opinion.
In regards to your last line, if i want to reply to someone and disagree i will just the same as you disagreeing to me as you just have. Im not looking for a debate i just wanted to say what i did
Well ok. I mean that's the same as saying 'Lee might still be alive' because Telltale hasn't confirmed it, depite overwhelming evidence.
… moreAnd pushing on the chest wouldn't speed up reanimation because..why on earth would it? Pushing on people's chests don't speed up viruses or infections, why would this one?
His mouth wasn't being moved just as a natural reaction to being pushed because he only does it once, not each time you push.
You're only believing he was dead, despite no realn't revivable to supprot your opinion rather than being objective. I'm sayign whether he's dead or not has little bearing on the morality of Kenny's choices so showing that Larry was revivable isn't out of any desperation to prove that one choice is right or not.
He was revivable as much as Lee is dead, even if telltale confirmed neither. This has little to no relevance to the moral choice.
What happened, happened anyway so the whole thing doesn't matter anymore
Umm, if you think that then why even debate?
It's more selfless than anything Jane did? Ok so Kenny tries to make Clementine and AJ go into an unknown community called Wellington that he only heard about through rumors, he willingly lets two people he cares about go inside a fortress they know absolutely nothing about that can pose a danger to them, not saying it isn't selfless, I'm saying it's not that smart to make Clementine and AJ go somewhere they know nothing about. As for Jane being selfless - She risks her life for Clementine and Rebecca(technically an unborn AJ as well) in the walker herd, she risks her life to save Sarah if Clementine can get Sarah to move, she saves Sarah a second time either by herself if you're silent or if Clementine asks her to, she kills Vitali(which she evidently feels bad about doing since he never did anything to her) and saves Kenny and possibly the entire group, if Clementine falls into the ice and Jane saves her - risking falling into the ice as well.
He doesn't allow her to leave.
He straight up begs Clem and AJ, the only things he has left to care about, to stay at Wellington for the… moreir own safety. I don't understand how people can ignore this when they criticise Kenny, it's more selfless than absolutely anything Jane did.
'Kenny Haters' 'Jane Haters' 'Kenny Lovers' 'Jane Lovers' when will everyone stop labeling and generalizing people? I don't care who likes or dislike a character, there's no reason people need to call others 'Haters', generalize them based on some individuals that share the same opinion as well as saying everyone(or selective groups of individuals) has a superiority complex. I'm not pointing at you specifically, at everyone whose done this, these are the kinds of things that divide us as a forum and sadly something that I see in many forums all too often.
Janes ending choice was shit. And thats not a opinion. Its like telltale wanted the players to choose Kenny to live then Jane because Kennys ending was so much better scripted and played out, it was very emotional. Janes ending had no were emotion especially since most people who killed Kenny didn't like him, so that whole thing wouldn't be emotional either. When Jane dies she just dies. When Kenny dies they play it out to be really emotional and him accepting deathe. Not only that but Kennys ending was much more selfless with begging Clem to stay at wellignton while Janes ending, either Clem walks away from Jane or they just walk in to a house with other people... wtf? 9/10 people choose Kennys ending over Janes, that 10 percent (or even less) is just more Kenny haters. How can you hate a character in a game anyways if he tries to be the good guy and proves that if you choose him over Jane? Jane is nice, but since shes more of a loner/rogue shes slightly more selfish and her ending is not well written, or atleast no where compared to Kennys, as well as Jane is a new character, Kenny has been there since the beginning.
Janes ending choice was shit. And thats not a opinion. Its like telltale wanted the players to choose Kenny to live then Jane because Kennys… more ending was so much better scripted and played out, it was very emotional. Janes ending had no were emotion especially since most people who killed Kenny didn't like him, so that whole thing wouldn't be emotional either. When Jane dies she just dies. When Kenny dies they play it out to be really emotional and him accepting deathe. Not only that but Kennys ending was much more selfless with begging Clem to stay at wellignton while Janes ending, either Clem walks away from Jane or they just walk in to a house with other people... wtf? 9/10 people choose Kennys ending over Janes, that 10 percent (or even less) is just more Kenny haters. How can you hate a character in a game anyways if he tries to be the good guy and proves that if you choose him over Jane? Jane is nice, but since shes more of a loner/rogue … [view original content]
Oh well, its a webpage that has biased fans so what? No need to get upset just because the webpage isn't being negative about the guy you all can't stop criticising on "this" website lol. I mean lets face it, if you all aren't being negative about Kenny then none of you are happy
I've noticed this last couple of days that the Wikia glorifies Kenny and demonizes Lilly and Jane. You just have to go there and read their … morearticles.
Kenny is generally characterised by needing a sense of purpose or more specifically, protecting people, which Lee noticed in "Around Every Corner".
That is a nice, poetic way of justifying all of his actions, LOL. Also, apparently, Lee noticed Kenny's need of protecting people just a day after Kenny had tried to punch him.
The thought of losing AJ, which apparently robbed him of purpose yet again, caused him to flip out beyond words but he calmed down once more with the discovery of AJ's safety.
Yeah, he did calm down… after he had killed a young woman by stabbing her in the heart with a knife, all while the girl who he feels the need to protect was watching. Parenting ten out of ten.
The fact that Kenny was willing to be on his own, with nobody to protect, so t… [view original content]
Ah but how do we know??? The camera cut out! Maybe this, maybe that, maybe xyz, maybe abc. Just like you did with Larry! Maybe a scientist came in after Clementine left and gave him the cure in the ending where you leave him!
Of course this is a silly argument, but to be honst so is saying that pushing on someone's chest would speed up rate of infection.
I have accepted your opinion, but the definition of accepting someone's opinion is not preventing yourself fromn debating with them.
I respect your right to have an opinion - you should respect my right to argue with it.
Your original post stated several opinions - this opens you up for a debate on a public forum whether you like it or not.
Well ok. I mean that's the same as saying 'Lee might still be alive' because Telltale hasn't confirmed it, depite overwhelming evidence.
… more
Its not the same at all. We knew that Lee died, Telltale didn't need to confirm that but Larry we do not know and never will for certain thats the difference,
Listen please accept my opinion and i will accept yours. I really don't need to hear this or be told by people who think they are right when neither you or me are. This is what i think and your evidence isn't evidence to me and you can think what you like of my opinion.
In regards to your last line, if i want to reply to someone and disagree i will just the same as you disagreeing to me as you just have. Im not looking for a debate i just wanted to say what i did
In a game where everyone loses people, you can't say people aren't bad when they do bad things because they've lost people - not one person hasn't lost anyone.
What defines people in the apocalypse isn't who they lose, it's how they deal with the loss. And he deals with it by becoming abusive, which characters such as Lee, or Ben, or Luke, or Nick, or Rebecca, simply don't do.
Firstly, I don't think kenny's a monster and have never stated that, don't conflate people who don't like Kenny into one amorphous blob.
… moreYou could argue that the fact that Rebecca had an emotional connection to him indicates goodness. Or that he's the leader of a successful community.
If a character is written as a bad person with some good sides, that's who they are - a bad person with some good sides. It doesn't mean they'#re a good person and the writers have decided to try and ruin them any more than it means they're a bad person and the writers have just tried to add in some good stuff for balance.
Kenny has good and bad sides, and Kenny is only as much as he is written, as every single character. You seem to be wanting to explain away most instances of Kenny acting in a way you don't like to writers having an agenda against a character you like. Why can't it be the case that the character actually DOES have good and bad sides, … [view original content]
It's no more suicidal than travelling back to Howe's, which the last time they saw had both enemy guards and a gigantic herd outside. They could travel back there, and risk the place being overrun, hence a wasted journey, or they could search for Wellington, which for all they knew could have been just around the corner. I think both plan's carried risks, I just think Wellington seemed a safer bet.
If Howe's was still full of walkers, they couldve just moved on. If they didnt find Wellington, it didnt exist in the first place, they just ran out of supplies or froze, i see Howe's as a lot less risky option.
If you truly believe that trying to find Wellington wasnt a bad idea, that tells just about everything i need to know about you and i see no point talking with you anymore.
It's no more suicidal than travelling back to Howe's, which the last time they saw had both enemy guards and a gigantic herd outside. They c… moreould travel back there, and risk the place being overrun, hence a wasted journey, or they could search for Wellington, which for all they knew could have been just around the corner. I think both plan's carried risks, I just think Wellington seemed a safer bet.
And I don't think the cold was the main problem, the lack of immediate supplies seemed a bigger problem. Seeing as both were 9 days away, neither of them can claim a victory on that. From an in-game perspective, Wellington could have been well stocked as from what we heard, and seemed a safe haven.
And I mentioned the last argument in case you argued 'But Howe's was safe in the end', you didn't but I just covered that in case
What are you even talking about, Dan? I never asked for an elaborated list about all of Kenny's flaws and mistakes. I would like Kenny's Wikia page to be candid and impartial, including everything that he has done—be it considered positive or negative by the authors.
Oh well, its a webpage that has biased fans so what? No need to get upset just because the webpage isn't being negative about the guy you al… morel can't stop criticising on "this" website lol. I mean lets face it, if you all aren't being negative about Kenny then none of you are happy
You just said "Amen" to a post that says that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion and in previous posts and threads you claim to "respect" our opinion? Hypocrite.
Tell me, point to a part in my post where I literally said "no one should like Jane, you are not aloud to like Jane". Actually, I even said some nice things about Jane. I only gave reasons for why Kenny is not a jerk like some people say.
You just said "Amen" to a post that says that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion and in previous posts and threads you claim to "respect" our opinion? Hypocrite.
Oh well, its a webpage that has biased fans so what? No need to get upset just because the webpage isn't being negative about the guy you al… morel can't stop criticising on "this" website lol. I mean lets face it, if you all aren't being negative about Kenny then none of you are happy
I am not here to debate your ridiculous "you cant have a different opinion that mine" argument. I'm only trying to understand why does Dan ask for his opinion to be respected in a previous thread while he is here doing the exact oposite.
Tell me, point to a part in my post where I literally said "no one should like Jane, you are not aloud to like Jane". Actually, I even said some nice things about Jane. I only gave reasons for why Kenny is not a jerk like some people say.
Actually, it does sir/madam and for some reason I knew that was going to be the reply you would say. Not only was it still replying in my comment but you mentioned me and aswell said that I for some reason told people they are not aloud to like Jane. Even if you were not replying to me, I AM replying to you to clear out that random and incorrect comment you made about what I said.
Errr... my reply wasn't even directed at you?
I am not here to debate your ridiculous "you cant have a different opinion that mine" argum… moreent. I'm only trying to understand why does Dan ask for his opinion to be respected in a previous thread while he is here doing the exact oposite.
You have nothing to do with this ^.^
Oh I guess I missinterpreted then. I claimed that your post said that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion (and it does).
You want me to point? Alright:
Janes ending choice was shit. And thats not a opinion.
Saying that it's not an opinion is the same as saying it is a fact (which is ridiculous). The fact that you claim that your point of view is a fact and that the other point of view is wrong shows that you do not respect different opinions.
My point stands: why asking for respect when you don't respect the others as well?
Actually, it does sir/madam and for some reason I knew that was going to be the reply you would say. Not only was it still replying in my co… moremment but you mentioned me and aswell said that I for some reason told people they are not aloud to like Jane. Even if you were not replying to me, I AM replying to you to clear out that random and incorrect comment you made about what I said.
I think they locked down most major character pages, so only certain people have editing access. AKA the biased people that wrote it in the first place. Not to mention that there's a lot of stingy people on the wiki, so even if you were able to edit the articles, there's a good chance those edits wouldn't be staying up too long.
I mean look, for the most part, I respect the folks over on that wiki. Most of the admins and mods are cool (emphasis on most). I mean yeah, maybe they're a bit biased in some respects, but they generally try to put that to the side, and a lot of them seem to genuinely care about keeping the wiki managed, up to date, and factual. But then there's a group of people on there that have more power than they should.
The one I've come across with the fewest errors is Five Nights At Freddy's ; I guess there's not much bias that can come with murdering kiddie robots.
EDIT: @BettertoSleep , i'm checking out the Wiki page right now , and it honestly isn't too bad. While it does call Kenny selfless , it admits he can be irrational and short tempered.
ANOTHER EDIT: I edited the page.
I think they locked down most major character pages, so only certain people have editing access. AKA the biased people that wrote it in the … morefirst place. Not to mention that there's a lot of stingy people on the wiki, so even if you were able to edit the articles, there's a good chance those edits wouldn't be staying up too long.
I mean look, for the most part, I respect the folks over on that wiki. Most of the admins and mods are cool (emphasis on most). I mean yeah, maybe they're a bit biased in some respects, but they generally try to put that to the side, and a lot of them seem to genuinely care about keeping the wiki managed, up to date, and factual. But then there's a group of people on there that have more power than they should.
Yeah dude, that makes no sense. Im not disrespecting anyone, or in this case, anything, as I said jane is nice and she is still a good character. The reason why I said Kennys ending is better is because everyone other then Jane lovers, that I have heard a opinion of the end of game says Kennys ending is very emotional. When I watch playthroughs of janes ending, people think its weak, as its not emotional and does not end like how Kenny selflessly risks his life for Clem, that takes out any rude or stupid thing that I admit kenny does in the past, because if someone wants to die and risk there life as a hero, there past mistakes dont matter. But thanks for that one "critic" reivew you did of the one and only offensive part in my comment, but it still doesnt help your problem.
Oh I guess I missinterpreted then. I claimed that your post said that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion (and it does).
You want … moreme to point? Alright:
Janes ending choice was shit. And thats not a opinion.
Saying that it's not an opinion is the same as saying it is a fact (which is ridiculous). The fact that you claim that your point of view is a fact and that the other point of view is wrong shows that you do not respect different opinions.
My point stands: why asking for respect when you don't respect the others as well?
Comments
What are we talking about? Them putting clem in unnecessary danger, or Clem getting Omid killed?
Even if they all checked the bathrooms, why would stay stick around next to Clem?
They should've at least stayed with Clem to prevent exactly what happened. Let's say Clem took her gun with her, Michelle (the woman who shot Omid) still could've managed to overpower Clementine and take her gun. That's why I don't hold Clementine accountable as much because Omid and Christa should've stayed with her.
I'd certainly consider him a monster.
Between him murdering an unconscious father in the presence of a terrified daughter and small child, screaming obscenities at the same child as a result of his girlfriends' demise regardless of if she had a hand in it or not, and him endangering the same child yet again on multiple occasions indirectly or not.
Oh the shit I could give you for going there....
Sounds like bullshit because I've done playthroughs where I didn't side with him at that part and I don't remember him saying that. But to give you the benefit of the doubt, let's say it is true, how exactly is that manipulating? Do you know what that word means?
You say this while acting hostile towards me, calling me an idiot and a son of a bitch? Lol.
I can tell that you're underage just from this part alone. I didn't exhibit any of those behaviors, but because I disagree with you, you talk about me like I'm a typical Kenny fan. It also demonstrates the "not even trying to understand Kenny" point I made earlier. There's usually good, or at the very least, understandable reasons for what Kenny does, but because you don't like him/don't agree with them, you call them excuses instead.
Thinking about it further being underage may also have something to do with why Kenny haters hate Kenny. He has strong good points but he also has problems. He's also one of the few characters who treats you differently depending on how you treat him. Because of these things Kenny seems more like a real person rather than a video game character, and guess what, real relationships involve compromise and modesty, something today's narcissistic kids have no concept of. It's not about ignoring Kenny's flaws or "making excuses" for them. It's about putting your trust in him and sticking with him, DESPITE the fact that he has flaws. Today's kids have spent too much time on the internet with no in real life relationships to keep them grounded, and as a result they no concept of compromise or middle ground. Which is funny since that's apparently one of the reasons why Kenny haters hate Kenny.
Yes, but if Clem cuts her arm off it causes Sarita to be swarmed by zombies killing her more quickly than if she had just been bitten. Clem's responsible for that, and you can take it even further than that by dropping an axe in Sarita's face right after it happens.
You're right, it's not. Because there's nothing in the game that indicates that Carver has any sort of good in him, nor does he have a history of being selfless and caring for others. The game never portrays him in positive light, nor does he have any positive qualities. He's not misunderstood, or even an ambiguous villain, he's just an asshole with no redeemable qualities whatsoever.
This argument works just as much against you as it supposedly does against me. Regardless of how he's portrayed in season 2's final episode, his endings in that episode, as well as past actions, show that Kenny isn't the monster you think he is, and how you personally feel about him doesn't change that.
Sigh
As stated a million times before, you can't say he was unconscious implying he was alive because there was no definite proof of this. Larry stopped breathing, he could have died right there and then and before you say it, him twitching during CPR does not mean he was alive. People have been known to twich when they die as the body is slowly shutting itself down, or in another case, he was about to reanimate. Point is, TTG made it unclear deliberately so we will never know for sure. He could have been alive or dead and that's that.
I'm not even going there on the other stuff you said because you know how i feel about all that lol
Firstly, I don't think kenny's a monster and have never stated that, don't conflate people who don't like Kenny into one amorphous blob.
You could argue that the fact that Rebecca had an emotional connection to him indicates goodness. Or that he's the leader of a successful community.
If a character is written as a bad person with some good sides, that's who they are - a bad person with some good sides. It doesn't mean they'#re a good person and the writers have decided to try and ruin them any more than it means they're a bad person and the writers have just tried to add in some good stuff for balance.
Kenny has good and bad sides, and Kenny is only as much as he is written, as every single character. You seem to be wanting to explain away most instances of Kenny acting in a way you don't like to writers having an agenda against a character you like. Why can't it be the case that the character actually DOES have good and bad sides, like, you know, real people?
By your logic I could just as easily claim that Jane is the best person ever, and telltale just wrote in bad things. But that doesn't make sense, because the reason I'd think jane is good is because of the writing too.
It's just picking and choosing the bits of the writing you like, and labelling the bits you don't like as wrong, instead of accepting Kenny's character, and all other characters, as an amalgam of both.
You're the best , Flog.
He's not real people. He's a saint, didnt you know?
You mean none at all?
Do you know who you're talking to?
I was actually THERE when it happened, you just saw it and think you know the full story so shut the hell up- I actually smelt the blood, saw the skull be crushed, and I still relive it sometimes in my sleep- Stop assuming you know everything.
I'm sorry, I can get a little Salty over this particular incident when people say this stuff and can't back it up...
No need to tell him to shut the hell up. I disagree with him too but It's his opinion as it is yours as well. No need to cause arguments
It was meant to be a joke and I put that little part at the bottom
(It's called Saltlick Privileges: something you don't have :P)
No, we do know he was able to be resucitated. I've explained it countless times.
His mouth moves if you push on his chest enough times when helping Lilly. This only happens if you push on the chest enough times - if you don't it stays still.
Pushing on someone's chest wouldn't speed up reanimation, nor would it cause twitching that would not otherwise have occurred according to any biology I've studied.
It was therefore only a breath/regaining of bodily.
However, the fact that Larry was revivable is arguably irrelevant, since Kenny couldn't have known this. His mistake was thus understandable, but he could and should have acted more sensibly - as the Greg situation showed us, it's pretty obvious when someone reanimates in the game, so he could have held the saltlick next to his head (or put it on the ground till needed) to first see if he was indeed revivable.
Thus Kenny's actions are understandable, and even arguably right, despite the fact that Larry could be revived. It definitely wasn't murder, though I can't help but feel that he would have been more allowing of resuscitation attempts if it was Katjaa in that situation.
Ahh apologies
It's no more suicidal than travelling back to Howe's, which the last time they saw had both enemy guards and a gigantic herd outside. They could travel back there, and risk the place being overrun, hence a wasted journey, or they could search for Wellington, which for all they knew could have been just around the corner. I think both plan's carried risks, I just think Wellington seemed a safer bet.
And I don't think the cold was the main problem, the lack of immediate supplies seemed a bigger problem. Seeing as both were 9 days away, neither of them can claim a victory on that. From an in-game perspective, Wellington could have been well stocked as from what we heard, and seemed a safe haven.
And I mentioned the last argument in case you argued 'But Howe's was safe in the end', you didn't but I just covered that in case
Right ok but im not going to accept that as a fact if that is what you are stating because like I said, telltale never confirmed he was alive or dead at that point and was based on players perception of the scene. By the way, how do you know that pushing on his chest wouldn't speed up reanimation? There's not been enough research by survivors in that life to know for sure. Maybe by pushing on his chest it made him start reacting to being pushed on and made him twitch? Personally I don't think he was reanimating but i do think he was dead and that's my take on it ok? Alive or dead we were never to know for sure. It's all speculation and always will be and there's just no point in saying he or she is right or wrong about it. What happened, happened anyway so the whole thing doesn't matter anymore
Well ok. I mean that's the same as saying 'Lee might still be alive' because Telltale hasn't confirmed it, depite overwhelming evidence.
And pushing on the chest wouldn't speed up reanimation because..why on earth would it? Pushing on people's chests don't speed up viruses or infections, why would this one?
His mouth wasn't being moved just as a natural reaction to being pushed because he only does it once, not each time you push.
You're only believing he was dead, despite no realn't revivable to supprot your opinion rather than being objective. I'm sayign whether he's dead or not has little bearing on the morality of Kenny's choices so showing that Larry was revivable isn't out of any desperation to prove that one choice is right or not.
He was revivable as much as Lee is dead, even if telltale confirmed neither. This has little to no relevance to the moral choice.
Umm, if you think that then why even debate?
Its not the same at all. We knew that Lee died, Telltale didn't need to confirm that but Larry we do not know and never will for certain thats the difference,
Listen please accept my opinion and i will accept yours. I really don't need to hear this or be told by people who think they are right when neither you or me are. This is what i think and your evidence isn't evidence to me and you can think what you like of my opinion.
In regards to your last line, if i want to reply to someone and disagree i will just the same as you disagreeing to me as you just have. Im not looking for a debate i just wanted to say what i did
It's more selfless than anything Jane did? Ok so Kenny tries to make Clementine and AJ go into an unknown community called Wellington that he only heard about through rumors, he willingly lets two people he cares about go inside a fortress they know absolutely nothing about that can pose a danger to them, not saying it isn't selfless, I'm saying it's not that smart to make Clementine and AJ go somewhere they know nothing about. As for Jane being selfless - She risks her life for Clementine and Rebecca(technically an unborn AJ as well) in the walker herd, she risks her life to save Sarah if Clementine can get Sarah to move, she saves Sarah a second time either by herself if you're silent or if Clementine asks her to, she kills Vitali(which she evidently feels bad about doing since he never did anything to her) and saves Kenny and possibly the entire group, if Clementine falls into the ice and Jane saves her - risking falling into the ice as well.
'Kenny Haters' 'Jane Haters' 'Kenny Lovers' 'Jane Lovers' when will everyone stop labeling and generalizing people? I don't care who likes or dislike a character, there's no reason people need to call others 'Haters', generalize them based on some individuals that share the same opinion as well as saying everyone(or selective groups of individuals) has a superiority complex. I'm not pointing at you specifically, at everyone whose done this, these are the kinds of things that divide us as a forum and sadly something that I see in many forums all too often.
Janes ending choice was shit. And thats not a opinion. Its like telltale wanted the players to choose Kenny to live then Jane because Kennys ending was so much better scripted and played out, it was very emotional. Janes ending had no were emotion especially since most people who killed Kenny didn't like him, so that whole thing wouldn't be emotional either. When Jane dies she just dies. When Kenny dies they play it out to be really emotional and him accepting deathe. Not only that but Kennys ending was much more selfless with begging Clem to stay at wellignton while Janes ending, either Clem walks away from Jane or they just walk in to a house with other people... wtf? 9/10 people choose Kennys ending over Janes, that 10 percent (or even less) is just more Kenny haters. How can you hate a character in a game anyways if he tries to be the good guy and proves that if you choose him over Jane? Jane is nice, but since shes more of a loner/rogue shes slightly more selfish and her ending is not well written, or atleast no where compared to Kennys, as well as Jane is a new character, Kenny has been there since the beginning.
Amen NorthStars thank you
Kenny is far from a monster just that in season 2 he has lost so many people it's understandable that he acts a bit irrational at times
Oh well, its a webpage that has biased fans so what? No need to get upset just because the webpage isn't being negative about the guy you all can't stop criticising on "this" website lol. I mean lets face it, if you all aren't being negative about Kenny then none of you are happy
Ah but how do we know??? The camera cut out! Maybe this, maybe that, maybe xyz, maybe abc. Just like you did with Larry! Maybe a scientist came in after Clementine left and gave him the cure in the ending where you leave him!
Of course this is a silly argument, but to be honst so is saying that pushing on someone's chest would speed up rate of infection.
I have accepted your opinion, but the definition of accepting someone's opinion is not preventing yourself fromn debating with them.
I respect your right to have an opinion - you should respect my right to argue with it.
Your original post stated several opinions - this opens you up for a debate on a public forum whether you like it or not.
Everyone. Has. Lost. People.
Clementine can even call him out on it in game.
In a game where everyone loses people, you can't say people aren't bad when they do bad things because they've lost people - not one person hasn't lost anyone.
What defines people in the apocalypse isn't who they lose, it's how they deal with the loss. And he deals with it by becoming abusive, which characters such as Lee, or Ben, or Luke, or Nick, or Rebecca, simply don't do.
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If Howe's was still full of walkers, they couldve just moved on. If they didnt find Wellington, it didnt exist in the first place, they just ran out of supplies or froze, i see Howe's as a lot less risky option.
If you truly believe that trying to find Wellington wasnt a bad idea, that tells just about everything i need to know about you and i see no point talking with you anymore.
What are you even talking about, Dan? I never asked for an elaborated list about all of Kenny's flaws and mistakes. I would like Kenny's Wikia page to be candid and impartial, including everything that he has done—be it considered positive or negative by the authors.
You just said "Amen" to a post that says that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion and in previous posts and threads you claim to "respect" our opinion? Hypocrite.
Tell me, point to a part in my post where I literally said "no one should like Jane, you are not aloud to like Jane". Actually, I even said some nice things about Jane. I only gave reasons for why Kenny is not a jerk like some people say.
I think you take criticisms of Kenny a little too personally.
Errr... my reply wasn't even directed at you?
I am not here to debate your ridiculous "you cant have a different opinion that mine" argument. I'm only trying to understand why does Dan ask for his opinion to be respected in a previous thread while he is here doing the exact oposite.
You have nothing to do with this ^.^
Actually, it does sir/madam and for some reason I knew that was going to be the reply you would say. Not only was it still replying in my comment but you mentioned me and aswell said that I for some reason told people they are not aloud to like Jane. Even if you were not replying to me, I AM replying to you to clear out that random and incorrect comment you made about what I said.
Oh I guess I missinterpreted then. I claimed that your post said that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion (and it does).
You want me to point? Alright:
Saying that it's not an opinion is the same as saying it is a fact (which is ridiculous). The fact that you claim that your point of view is a fact and that the other point of view is wrong shows that you do not respect different opinions.
My point stands: why asking for respect when you don't respect the others as well?
I think they locked down most major character pages, so only certain people have editing access. AKA the biased people that wrote it in the first place. Not to mention that there's a lot of stingy people on the wiki, so even if you were able to edit the articles, there's a good chance those edits wouldn't be staying up too long.
I mean look, for the most part, I respect the folks over on that wiki. Most of the admins and mods are cool (emphasis on most). I mean yeah, maybe they're a bit biased in some respects, but they generally try to put that to the side, and a lot of them seem to genuinely care about keeping the wiki managed, up to date, and factual. But then there's a group of people on there that have more power than they should.
True. It's the same over on the other wikis.
The one I've come across with the fewest errors is Five Nights At Freddy's ; I guess there's not much bias that can come with murdering kiddie robots.
EDIT: @BettertoSleep , i'm checking out the Wiki page right now , and it honestly isn't too bad. While it does call Kenny selfless , it admits he can be irrational and short tempered.
ANOTHER EDIT: I edited the page.
Yeah dude, that makes no sense. Im not disrespecting anyone, or in this case, anything, as I said jane is nice and she is still a good character. The reason why I said Kennys ending is better is because everyone other then Jane lovers, that I have heard a opinion of the end of game says Kennys ending is very emotional. When I watch playthroughs of janes ending, people think its weak, as its not emotional and does not end like how Kenny selflessly risks his life for Clem, that takes out any rude or stupid thing that I admit kenny does in the past, because if someone wants to die and risk there life as a hero, there past mistakes dont matter. But thanks for that one "critic" reivew you did of the one and only offensive part in my comment, but it still doesnt help your problem.