Are seriously using something that didn't happen to support your claim?
Except this one actually did happen
He shot one of Carver's men during the hostage situation at the lodge, which escalated the situation and got Walter killed, and potentially put everyone in that room at risk
Seriously, shooting during a hostage situation when you don't even know how many people are in there, who the 'leader' is, or who they are or what they're willing to do is pretty dumb, to say the least
For all you know, the minute you kill one of them, the rest could open fire and gun down everyone else in there without a second thought
If anything, that is probably the stupidest course of action you could have taken in that situation
So Kenny's reasonable when he just starts shooting up Carver's men without thinking up a proper plan?
Are seriously using something … morethat didn't happen to support your claim? Christ.
When he yells at Clementine for Sarita's death?
It might not be right, but it is understandable to be angry at someone who's responsible for the death of someone you love. And need I remind you that Kenny feels bad about it and apologizes for it later.
When he refuses to listen to anyone when they suggest going to a place that they KNOW has baby formula and not even considering a compromise?
You mean the place that when we last saw it was completely overrun with zombies that Clem and company deliberately drew to it? Yeah I don't see how it's unreasonable to not want to go back there. Jane's endings could've easily had Clem and Jane getting overwhelmed by zombie or attacked by the people who were there angry with them about what … [view original content]
How? She hated Carver, even more so if he killed Alvin.
You can tell there was a connection when she talks about him, and they had sex which isn't really remotely implied to have been non consensual.
Replace Kenny with Jane in that sentence and you have Kenny haters.
We're not talking about people who dislike Kenny as a whole or people who like Kenny as a whole - we're talking about one opinion - yours - so don't try to deflect this.
Also, you said not to put everyone who hates Kenny into one amorphous blob, but here you are doing the same thing to me and Kenny fans.
Read the bit you quoted again. I expressly only refer to YOU, not all Kenny fans.
the fact that he changes how he treats you depending on how you treat him makes him more human.
Many characters do that, it's the point of telltale games, not something unique to Kenny.
It's not about explaining away, ignoring, or "making excuses" for his flaws, it's about putting your trust in him and sticking with him DESPITE the fact that he has flaws.
But you're not saying 'yes he did bad things but I like him anyway', you're saying the bad things he did were bad writing. That's not embracing him, virtues and vices together, that's trying to make him perfect which is the opposite of that which you purport to desire.
Guess what, real relationships requires compromise and modesty, something today's narcissistic kids have no concept of, which is why they complain about how "Kenny's an asshole if you disagree with him ONCE!!!!!" while going against him at every turn after only one disagreement.
Ok well you clearly have some societal issues with the way you're talking about 'today's narciassistic kids' so I'm not particularly sure there's any use debating, but your agenda seems pretty clear.
Okay, let me explain it as plainly as possible.
Way to patronise.
Characters are written to have a specific personality, and specific characters traits.
Yes, and of course those can change.
Usually, the characters behave consistently with the personality and character traits that are established.
If they stay the same all the time, yep, though that'd be unrealistic.
However, there are times where a character may behave contrary to how they were previously written.
Which may have many reasons, including character growth.
some other reason.
That other reason being character development. Which is liek writing 101. Characters change over time and are affected by what goes aroudn them. The Kenny we meet in episode 1 season 1 isn't the same one who yells at us in season 2 episode 4. He has the same name, but he has been changed by the apocalypse, as are all.
Clementine is totally different now to how she was when we met her outside her treehouse (that's what the season 2 episode 5 trailer was all about in fact). People change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, and that's life.
Everyone. Has. Lost. People.
Clementine can even call him out on it in game.
In a game where everyone loses people, you can't say peop… morele aren't bad when they do bad things because they've lost people - not one person hasn't lost anyone.
What defines people in the apocalypse isn't who they lose, it's how they deal with the loss. And he deals with it by becoming abusive, which characters such as Lee, or Ben, or Luke, or Nick, or Rebecca, simply don't do.
it's possibly the worst defence of Kenny I've seen, which is funny because it's the one he uses in the actual game.
Feels like many are parroting Kenny rather than analysing him themselves - if they did the latter they'd have much more convincing arguments as to why Kenny is a saint. Though of course, ten times zero is still zero, if you get my drift.
How? She hated Carver, even more so if he killed Alvin.
You can tell there was a connection when she talks about him, and they had s… moreex which isn't really remotely implied to have been non consensual.
Replace Kenny with Jane in that sentence and you have Kenny haters.
We're not talking about people who dislike Kenny as a whole or people who like Kenny as a whole - we're talking about one opinion - yours - so don't try to deflect this.
Also, you said not to put everyone who hates Kenny into one amorphous blob, but here you are doing the same thing to me and Kenny fans.
Read the bit you quoted again. I expressly only refer to YOU, not all Kenny fans.
the fact that he changes how he treats you depending on how you treat him makes him more human.
Many characters do that, it's the point of telltale games, not something unique to Kenny.
It's not about explaining away, ignoring, or "making excus… [view original content]
everyone is becoming a monster. just some more than others. he showed his consideration for the kids over himself. that imo should redeem him. kenny is the good kind of asshole and that's why i like him.
'Kenny Haters' 'Jane Haters' 'Kenny Lovers' 'Jane Lovers' when will everyone stop labeling and generalizing people? I don't care who likes o… morer dislike a character, there's no reason people need to call others 'Haters', generalize them based on some individuals that share the same opinion as well as saying everyone(or selective groups of individuals) has a superiority complex. I'm not pointing at you specifically, at everyone whose done this, these are the kinds of things that divide us as a forum and sadly something that I see in many forums all too often.
I agree with Kenny/Lee's post.
I don't really see what's wrong with wanting to protect your family above all else, getting pissed that Clem was the cause of Sarita's death and getting frustrated when plans don't go his way. Yeah, he can be very overbearing. I'm not saying he's a cinnamon too good for this world because he's really not. He's no hero but he's not a monster either.
He's a broken man that's set on finding a purpose to keep going.
Now, what I don't agree with is that, if you get this in Season 1, Kenny doesn't come with Lee to find Clementine. Another would be that whole Ben situation. He does, however, bounce back from that and tries to save Ben in the end. Now just because I agree with Kenny's actions more doesn't mean I hate Jane. She's a pretty cool chick, I admit. I was disappointed that you'd have to choose between her and Kenny.
It was pretty annoying that she had Crawford's ways of survival. She would always be like "Don't let them drag you down" this and "Leave them behind" that. I get it. Sometimes it's better to be on your own but trying to constantly remind me wasn't changing my mind. Hiding the baby and ultimately getting Kenny killed to prove a point? Nuh, man. No deal. Especially since her plan was to go BACK to the store where you last saw walkers swarming the area.
Anyway, Kenny didn't have to kill Jane and Jane should have spoken up about the baby. Death could have been avoided.
They're both at fault.
I personally was not a real big fan of Christa. I think Christa was okay as far as characters go, but overall I felt she was kind of bossy and controlling, especially when it came to Omid. Personally, I'd have preferred if Christa had died, and Clementine and Omid, along with Luke and his group, to have been the one's who encountered Kenny at the lodge.
Plus, I've often wondered why Omid was unarmed when he went into the bathroom to check on Clementine. The look on Omid's face as he entered the bathroom, that he knew something was going on. And if that was so, then why wouldn't he arm himself, just to be safe? I don't understand why the writers didn't seemingly consider that?
Thank you. Your comment makes you my new best friend on here. Lol!
Anyway, I think that Jane's hiding Aj in a frozen car, and pretending he had died, was such a downright CRUEL thing to do to someone in Kenny's fragile state of mind. Personally, I had Clementine try to help Kenny as much as possible when him and Jane were fighting. And if it had been an option, I'd have either have had Clementine fire a shot up in the air in order to break it up and then try and talk some sense into them, or have shot Jane.
Personally, I don't blame Kenny for flipping out, especially when it seemed like Jane had possibly killed the baby. I personally have a soft spot for children, and when I hear on the news of a child having been harmed by a pedophile, or of an adult killing a child, I wanna inflict harm on that person.
And when you think about if you told Jane to back off, she replies with: "Ain't gonna happen, it's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery!" That shows that she was dead-set on killing Kenny. To quote Kenny: "I thought she'd killed Alvie, Clem. And at any point she could've stopped what was happening by saying he was fine. She WANTED to fight!"
I agree with Kenny/Lee's post.
I don't really see what's wrong with wanting to protect your family above all else, getting pissed that Clem… more was the cause of Sarita's death and getting frustrated when plans don't go his way. Yeah, he can be very overbearing. I'm not saying he's a cinnamon too good for this world because he's really not. He's no hero but he's not a monster either.
He's a broken man that's set on finding a purpose to keep going.
Now, what I don't agree with is that, if you get this in Season 1, Kenny doesn't come with Lee to find Clementine. Another would be that whole Ben situation. He does, however, bounce back from that and tries to save Ben in the end. Now just because I agree with Kenny's actions more doesn't mean I hate Jane. She's a pretty cool chick, I admit. I was disappointed that you'd have to choose between her and Kenny.
It was pretty annoying that she had Crawford's ways of survival. She would always be lik… [view original content]
I liked what he/she posted as an overall post. I admit though i must have missed that part where NorthStars worded "Jane fans have no right to an opinion" in which case thats not fair and i would have added at the end something about it. It would have been interesting though if this was a post about Jane and what you would have said if they said "Kenny fans have no right to an opinion". I would say however that when i comment on saying i disagree with something or heaven forbid say i like this or something good Kenny did I don't see any Jane fans respecting my post though and instead implying to me that i'm wrong and then start pointing out all the negatives in him. Fine you are all entitled to do that. But when i see a post such as the one where you went as far as to say you were happy to put a bullet in him at the end, how does that make you any better than all the bad things he's done?
Thanks for calling me a hypocrite though. Sticks and stones eh? Good one
You just said "Amen" to a post that says that Jane's fans have no right to their opinion and in previous posts and threads you claim to "respect" our opinion? Hypocrite.
Ah but how do we know??? The camera cut out! Maybe this, maybe that, maybe xyz, maybe abc. Just like you did with Larry! Maybe a scientist came in after Clementine left and gave him the cure in the ending where you leave him!
Exactly! It's all maybe this and maybe that because the whole scene was left unclear for us to make our own opinions on it.
Of course this is a silly argument, but to be honst so is saying that pushing on someone's chest would speed up rate of infection.
Again you can think what you want and if you think im an idiot for this that's fine, it doesn't bother me. I was using a theory like this because it's a game and doesn't have to make sense and my point was that just because pushing on a chest doesn't speed up a normal virus or infection, doesn't mean that it wouldn't for a virus/infection that is new that nobody in life understands how it happened and how they all got infected. You could say that Larry died and then in reviving him, instead of giving the man life you are actually starting his reanimation faster than if you just left him to turn because that moment was never done before.
I did say that I didn't think he was reanimating anyway and i was just throwing in another possibility of reanimation that's all.
I respect your right to have an opinion - you should respect my right to argue with it.
You can tear my opinion to be pieces that's fine as long as you don't imply something like this is a fact when we all know it isn't and will always just be our opinions.
Ah but how do we know??? The camera cut out! Maybe this, maybe that, maybe xyz, maybe abc. Just like you did with Larry! Maybe a scientist c… moreame in after Clementine left and gave him the cure in the ending where you leave him!
Of course this is a silly argument, but to be honst so is saying that pushing on someone's chest would speed up rate of infection.
I have accepted your opinion, but the definition of accepting someone's opinion is not preventing yourself fromn debating with them.
I respect your right to have an opinion - you should respect my right to argue with it.
Your original post stated several opinions - this opens you up for a debate on a public forum whether you like it or not.
I liked what he/she posted as an overall post. I admit though i must have missed that part where NorthStars worded "Jane fans have no right to an opinion" in which case thats not fair and i would have added at the end something about it.
There was no way for me to know that you (convinientely) missed that part. I replied for what I saw and I'm glad to hear that you do not agree with such thing.
It would have been interesting though if this was a post about Jane and what you would have said if they said "Kenny fans have no right to an opinion".
Actually a user called DarkViolet said something like that in another thread (she/he said that Jane endings were the "canon" ones) and I replied saying that there is no canon ending.
I don't see any Jane fans respecting my post though and instead implying to me that i'm wrong and then start pointing out all the negatives in him.
Look Dan, just because they disagree with you it doesn't mean they do not respect your opinion.
But when i see a post such as the one where you went as far as to say you were happy to put a bullet in him at the end, how does that make you any better than all the bad things he's done?
Well, I centainly didn't say that but... What about the "How Jane should die" thread? You can see people saying that she should get torn apart bybwalker and even using not so pleasant gifs about it.
Thanks for calling me a hypocrite though. Sticks and stones eh? Good one
Well as I said it looked like you were agreeing with something that said that Jane fans have no right to their opinion. Which would be hypocrital of you (if you agreed with it) because you've asked for your opinion to be respected before.
I liked what he/she posted as an overall post. I admit though i must have missed that part where NorthStars worded "Jane fans have no right … moreto an opinion" in which case thats not fair and i would have added at the end something about it. It would have been interesting though if this was a post about Jane and what you would have said if they said "Kenny fans have no right to an opinion". I would say however that when i comment on saying i disagree with something or heaven forbid say i like this or something good Kenny did I don't see any Jane fans respecting my post though and instead implying to me that i'm wrong and then start pointing out all the negatives in him. Fine you are all entitled to do that. But when i see a post such as the one where you went as far as to say you were happy to put a bullet in him at the end, how does that make you any better than all the bad things he's done?
Thanks for calling me a hypocrite though. Sticks and stones eh? Good one
If you look around on these forums you will see that most anti Kenny fans especially those who like Jane will never say anything good about Kenny but will always mention the bad things he's done. Even times he redeems himself for those bad things, they still have something negative to say. Heck i don't like Jane but i have mentioned previously what i do like about her and the good things she's done and i do acknowledge the bad things that Kenny has done as well but i guess I don't have as much hate for someone as some people here. Sorry had to say it but that's how i see it. Jane fans have a right to like and hate who they want though same as for us Kenny fans
Tell me, point to a part in my post where I literally said "no one should like Jane, you are not aloud to like Jane". Actually, I even said some nice things about Jane. I only gave reasons for why Kenny is not a jerk like some people say.
it's possibly the worst defence of Kenny I've seen, which is funny because it's the one he uses in the actual game.
Feels like many are p… morearroting Kenny rather than analysing him themselves - if they did the latter they'd have much more convincing arguments as to why Kenny is a saint. Though of course, ten times zero is still zero, if you get my drift.
The only problem I see in your post is when you say that Jane fans have no right to their opinion, ehoch is disrespecting. Saying that Jane's nice after that does not change it.
How would you feel if I posted "People that go with Kenny have the wrong ending. And that's not an opinion."? I think you would just be as pissed as I am because that is disrespecting other opinions.
Yeah dude, that makes no sense. Im not disrespecting anyone, or in this case, anything, as I said jane is nice and she is still a good chara… morecter. The reason why I said Kennys ending is better is because everyone other then Jane lovers, that I have heard a opinion of the end of game says Kennys ending is very emotional. When I watch playthroughs of janes ending, people think its weak, as its not emotional and does not end like how Kenny selflessly risks his life for Clem, that takes out any rude or stupid thing that I admit kenny does in the past, because if someone wants to die and risk there life as a hero, there past mistakes dont matter. But thanks for that one "critic" reivew you did of the one and only offensive part in my comment, but it still doesnt help your problem.
Ain't gonna happen, it's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery!"
i had had no idea she said that, thanks for pointing that out and great post i agree completely. People who hate/dislike Kenny are quick to point out that he is the one wanting to kill her just because of the way he goes for her, yet she says something like this that makes her equally as bad
Thank you. Your comment makes you my new best friend on here. Lol!
Anyway, I think that Jane's hiding Aj in a frozen car, and pretending … morehe had died, was such a downright CRUEL thing to do to someone in Kenny's fragile state of mind. Personally, I had Clementine try to help Kenny as much as possible when him and Jane were fighting. And if it had been an option, I'd have either have had Clementine fire a shot up in the air in order to break it up and then try and talk some sense into them, or have shot Jane.
Personally, I don't blame Kenny for flipping out, especially when it seemed like Jane had possibly killed the baby. I personally have a soft spot for children, and when I hear on the news of a child having been harmed by a pedophile, or of an adult killing a child, I wanna inflict harm on that person.
And when you think about if you told Jane to back off, she replies with: "Ain't gonna happen, it's time to put this crusty piece of… [view original content]
Someone else did earlier, though their comment may have been a joke. Don't remember where that comment was, can you help @kcohere?
Regardless, I said many, not all.
The closest I can think of is at his death
"The fuck you loooking at bitch?Don't act like you didn't love every second of it"
Still overall it seems to suggest she cheated given her behaviour. Always will be unclear though
Kenny haters can't do that, and thinking about it further, it might be because they spend too much time on the internet, where you can act however you want with no consequences, while no real life relationships to keep them grounded. Guess what, real relationships requires compromise and modesty, something today's narcissistic kids have no concept of
I really love how you say how anyone who doesn't like Kenny is a just a stupid kid who spends too much time on the Internet with no life. It really helps your bias shine through, bravo, 10/10.
Btw, I hate Kenny, and I just started a kickass job at a Fortune 100 company at the beginning of this month, so I don't really have as much time for the forums these days for obvious reasons. ^_^ So looks like you're wrong about me!~~~
I don't believe Kenny became a monster, because there's a lot worse people to be calling someone that. I think the issue with Kenny is that he simply isn't mentally strong willed like Clementine. Kat and Duck were his world and then that world fell apart and we see the aftermath of that for many episodes afterwards. We see that he isn't coping and is more than happy enough to let Ben die when he learns the teenager was an indirect cause, only to get a moment of redemption when he tries to save Ben in the finale [whom by that point spilled about his whole missing family, which seemed to talk sense into Kenny to at least lay off.]
By Season 2 a few years on it's still apparent Kenny hasn't healed while others who have lost family are moving on or at least coping better. Sarita's the few things holding him together since she found him when he was in a bad way, and brought him back from the brink, likewise how Clementine's appearance helps him in a small way. So losing Sarita pretty much got rid of that large safety net keeping him in a more or less stable mind. The problem with Kenny compared to someone like Sarah for example who loses her dad and has a mental breakdown, is that when it's Kenny, he can become dangerous. In general when he's well, he can still get dangerous if angered or threatened and make brash decisions as a result, so when suffering from the loss of somebody he loves there's even less control. We see this in Episode 3 of Season 1 when Kenny refuses to accept Duck is dying and can potentially get into a fight with Lee if you're not careful with your words, and if we get thrown into that fight and don't block punches, Kenny will beat Lee senseless. In Season 2 Episode 4, we see this similar behavior when talking to Clementine, when Sarita is bitten and dying, or already dead. Although he doesn't lash out at her violently, this was one of the first times I was frightened that Kenny would harm Clementine, when before that never crossed my mind him being capable of that.
I cared about Kenny in Season 1, I didn't agree with him all the time but I cared about the guy and his family and I was moved when he 'disappeared' but I knew he wasn't dead. Season 2, Episode 2 when he came back, I was really happy to see him return and I hugged that son of a bitch. But the episodes afterwards, slowly made me lose the ability to care for the character. He was brash in Season 1 sure, but there were too many times in Season 2 I became annoyed or frustrated by him when we skip to the episodes where he's becoming unhinged after Sarita. It was hard to level out the moments where he was being caring to A.J or Clementine, when in other scenes he was beating up a teenager as if he learnt nothing from Ben, to getting angry at Clementine in moments I was genuinely afraid of what he might do. Even by mistake, Kenny hits her when beating up Arvo after the lake incident if you have Clementine try to stop him, and then there's the scene in truck and Kenny is asking your honest opinion about Wellington and if to side with him, I couldn't even have Clementine do it, because again right there, I worried about him getting angry or hurting her. And then we get the whole sequence with attempting or succeeding to kill Jane; poorly set up as it was, that was the final straw where I couldn't care about him anymore.
Kenny isn't a monster, he just became unwell and dangerous and I think he even realizes it near the end of the game in the endings with him. But by then it was too late for me. If he could do all those things and potentially kill Jane [for what came across as a potential accident of getting a baby killed] I couldn't trust him around Clementine or A.J. So I'm not a Kenny hater, even if there's things that irritate me about him, I stopped caring for him solely because of how the Season 2 went down, and if things had turned out differently, that possibly wouldn't be the case. So I can understand he's a scarred character and he's had a lot happen to him, but there's no denying Kenny is dangerous and that not even Clementine could control him.
it's possibly the worst defence of Kenny I've seen, which is funny because it's the one he uses in the actual game.
Feels like many are p… morearroting Kenny rather than analysing him themselves - if they did the latter they'd have much more convincing arguments as to why Kenny is a saint. Though of course, ten times zero is still zero, if you get my drift.
Well im pretty sure if everywhere you went on these forums and saw the negativity for a character you like, i'm sure i could probably say the same thing about you liking Jane or if there was something or someone you wanted to defend from being heavily criticised
To be honest Kenny is an accurate representation of what someone would turn into in that enviornment. So is Jane, So is everyone in episode 5. The main issue is, clementine just isn't. That's my biggest issue with her as a character, she just doesn't react the way a real person would to situations. Lee in season 1 had some similar issues but thats kind of unavoidable with a playable character but overall his responses were pretty good, clementine just doesnt give that feel at all.
I don't believe Kenny became a monster, because there's a lot worse people to be calling someone that. I think the issue with Kenny is that … morehe simply isn't mentally strong willed like Clementine. Kat and Duck were his world and then that world fell apart and we see the aftermath of that for many episodes afterwards. We see that he isn't coping and is more than happy enough to let Ben die when he learns the teenager was an indirect cause, only to get a moment of redemption when he tries to save Ben in the finale [whom by that point spilled about his whole missing family, which seemed to talk sense into Kenny to at least lay off.]
By Season 2 a few years on it's still apparent Kenny hasn't healed while others who have lost family are moving on or at least coping better. Sarita's the few things holding him together since she found him when he was in a bad way, and brought him back from the brink, likewise how Clementine's appearance helps him… [view original content]
Nope. Once again, Im just saying what I have researched. Literally, 90/100 people I have watched or asked liked Kennys ending. Everyone who chose Jane to live, when I saw, they said TWD S2 had a bad ending, because they never got to know Kennys ending. People who chose Kenny, said TWD S2 had a powerfull ending. Im not saying Janes ending is bad, but apparently Kennys ending is WAY better. Just saying what I have observed, not disrespecting anyone with research. But I guess anything that says Kenny is better, even when sometimes its proven in the game, Jane fans will get upset. Jane has a better personality, Kenny has better morals. But Kenny vs Jane, Kenny wins in the ending, as the last thing both of them did, Kennys meant something.
The only problem I see in your post is when you say that Jane fans have no right to their opinion, ehoch is disrespecting. Saying that Jane'… mores nice after that does not change it.
How would you feel if I posted "People that go with Kenny have the wrong ending. And that's not an opinion."? I think you would just be as pissed as I am because that is disrespecting other opinions.
What the heck is wrong with people? "If you dont agree with my point of view, youre incapable of having relationships". Wtf? This is getting to be too much.
Kenny haters can't do that, and thinking about it further, it might be because they spend too much time on the internet, where you can act h… moreowever you want with no consequences, while no real life relationships to keep them grounded. Guess what, real relationships requires compromise and modesty, something today's narcissistic kids have no concept of
I really love how you say how anyone who doesn't like Kenny is a just a stupid kid who spends too much time on the Internet with no life. It really helps your bias shine through, bravo, 10/10.
Btw, I hate Kenny, and I just started a kickass job at a Fortune 100 company at the beginning of this month, so I don't really have as much time for the forums these days for obvious reasons. ^_^ So looks like you're wrong about me!~~~
What the heck is wrong with people? "If you dont agree with my point of view, youre incapable of having relationships". Wtf? This is getting to be too much.
Man, say what you want about Telltale's TWD, but it gets people so fired up for discussion Muhahaha. Especially when someone mentions anything about Kenny.
I like Jane but not that much. Hating Kenny has nothing to do with how I feel about her. Ill defend characters I like but I dont take it personally if another fan doesnt. I cant tell you how many times Ive defended tv Rick from people who just dont get him, but if they persist, I move on because obviously its just not worth the effort to argue with people most of the time when you are getting nowhere.
Well im pretty sure if everywhere you went on these forums and saw the negativity for a character you like, i'm sure i could probably say th… moree same thing about you liking Jane or if there was something or someone you wanted to defend from being heavily criticised
To be honest Kenny is an accurate representation of what someone would turn into in that enviornment. So is Jane, So is everyone in episode … more5. The main issue is, clementine just isn't. That's my biggest issue with her as a character, she just doesn't react the way a real person would to situations. Lee in season 1 had some similar issues but thats kind of unavoidable with a playable character but overall his responses were pretty good, clementine just doesnt give that feel at all.
Ain't gonna happen, it's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery!"
i had had no idea she said that, thanks for point… moreing that out and great post i agree completely. People who hate/dislike Kenny are quick to point out that he is the one wanting to kill her just because of the way he goes for her, yet she says something like this that makes her equally as bad
Comments
Except this one actually did happen
He shot one of Carver's men during the hostage situation at the lodge, which escalated the situation and got Walter killed, and potentially put everyone in that room at risk
Seriously, shooting during a hostage situation when you don't even know how many people are in there, who the 'leader' is, or who they are or what they're willing to do is pretty dumb, to say the least
For all you know, the minute you kill one of them, the rest could open fire and gun down everyone else in there without a second thought
If anything, that is probably the stupidest course of action you could have taken in that situation
You can tell there was a connection when she talks about him, and they had sex which isn't really remotely implied to have been non consensual.
We're not talking about people who dislike Kenny as a whole or people who like Kenny as a whole - we're talking about one opinion - yours - so don't try to deflect this.
Read the bit you quoted again. I expressly only refer to YOU, not all Kenny fans.
Many characters do that, it's the point of telltale games, not something unique to Kenny.
But you're not saying 'yes he did bad things but I like him anyway', you're saying the bad things he did were bad writing. That's not embracing him, virtues and vices together, that's trying to make him perfect which is the opposite of that which you purport to desire.
Ok well you clearly have some societal issues with the way you're talking about 'today's narciassistic kids' so I'm not particularly sure there's any use debating, but your agenda seems pretty clear.
Way to patronise.
Yes, and of course those can change.
If they stay the same all the time, yep, though that'd be unrealistic.
Which may have many reasons, including character growth.
That other reason being character development. Which is liek writing 101. Characters change over time and are affected by what goes aroudn them. The Kenny we meet in episode 1 season 1 isn't the same one who yells at us in season 2 episode 4. He has the same name, but he has been changed by the apocalypse, as are all.
Clementine is totally different now to how she was when we met her outside her treehouse (that's what the season 2 episode 5 trailer was all about in fact). People change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, and that's life.
Kenny has always been unpredictable - was this not one of those character traits established even as early as season 1 that you love?
Not really, the choice is split fairly well compared to some others. It sparked lots of debate, which is a good thing.
Im really tired of the "He lost people" excuse. It sounds ridiculous in this context when not one survivor hasnt lost someone they love
it's possibly the worst defence of Kenny I've seen, which is funny because it's the one he uses in the actual game.
Feels like many are parroting Kenny rather than analysing him themselves - if they did the latter they'd have much more convincing arguments as to why Kenny is a saint. Though of course, ten times zero is still zero, if you get my drift.
It seems to be implied that Carver either molested Rebecca or intimidated her into sleeping with him.
everyone is becoming a monster. just some more than others. he showed his consideration for the kids over himself. that imo should redeem him. kenny is the good kind of asshole and that's why i like him.
I think its just human nature, unfortunately to divide into groups of us vs them.
I agree with Kenny/Lee's post.
I don't really see what's wrong with wanting to protect your family above all else, getting pissed that Clem was the cause of Sarita's death and getting frustrated when plans don't go his way. Yeah, he can be very overbearing. I'm not saying he's a cinnamon too good for this world because he's really not. He's no hero but he's not a monster either.
He's a broken man that's set on finding a purpose to keep going.
Now, what I don't agree with is that, if you get this in Season 1, Kenny doesn't come with Lee to find Clementine. Another would be that whole Ben situation. He does, however, bounce back from that and tries to save Ben in the end. Now just because I agree with Kenny's actions more doesn't mean I hate Jane. She's a pretty cool chick, I admit. I was disappointed that you'd have to choose between her and Kenny.
It was pretty annoying that she had Crawford's ways of survival. She would always be like "Don't let them drag you down" this and "Leave them behind" that. I get it. Sometimes it's better to be on your own but trying to constantly remind me wasn't changing my mind. Hiding the baby and ultimately getting Kenny killed to prove a point? Nuh, man. No deal. Especially since her plan was to go BACK to the store where you last saw walkers swarming the area.
Anyway, Kenny didn't have to kill Jane and Jane should have spoken up about the baby. Death could have been avoided.
They're both at fault.
I personally was not a real big fan of Christa. I think Christa was okay as far as characters go, but overall I felt she was kind of bossy and controlling, especially when it came to Omid. Personally, I'd have preferred if Christa had died, and Clementine and Omid, along with Luke and his group, to have been the one's who encountered Kenny at the lodge.
Plus, I've often wondered why Omid was unarmed when he went into the bathroom to check on Clementine. The look on Omid's face as he entered the bathroom, that he knew something was going on. And if that was so, then why wouldn't he arm himself, just to be safe? I don't understand why the writers didn't seemingly consider that?
Thank you. Your comment makes you my new best friend on here. Lol!
Anyway, I think that Jane's hiding Aj in a frozen car, and pretending he had died, was such a downright CRUEL thing to do to someone in Kenny's fragile state of mind. Personally, I had Clementine try to help Kenny as much as possible when him and Jane were fighting. And if it had been an option, I'd have either have had Clementine fire a shot up in the air in order to break it up and then try and talk some sense into them, or have shot Jane.
Personally, I don't blame Kenny for flipping out, especially when it seemed like Jane had possibly killed the baby. I personally have a soft spot for children, and when I hear on the news of a child having been harmed by a pedophile, or of an adult killing a child, I wanna inflict harm on that person.
And when you think about if you told Jane to back off, she replies with: "Ain't gonna happen, it's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery!" That shows that she was dead-set on killing Kenny. To quote Kenny: "I thought she'd killed Alvie, Clem. And at any point she could've stopped what was happening by saying he was fine. She WANTED to fight!"
I liked what he/she posted as an overall post. I admit though i must have missed that part where NorthStars worded "Jane fans have no right to an opinion" in which case thats not fair and i would have added at the end something about it. It would have been interesting though if this was a post about Jane and what you would have said if they said "Kenny fans have no right to an opinion". I would say however that when i comment on saying i disagree with something or heaven forbid say i like this or something good Kenny did I don't see any Jane fans respecting my post though and instead implying to me that i'm wrong and then start pointing out all the negatives in him. Fine you are all entitled to do that. But when i see a post such as the one where you went as far as to say you were happy to put a bullet in him at the end, how does that make you any better than all the bad things he's done?
Thanks for calling me a hypocrite though. Sticks and stones eh? Good one
Exactly! It's all maybe this and maybe that because the whole scene was left unclear for us to make our own opinions on it.
Again you can think what you want and if you think im an idiot for this that's fine, it doesn't bother me. I was using a theory like this because it's a game and doesn't have to make sense and my point was that just because pushing on a chest doesn't speed up a normal virus or infection, doesn't mean that it wouldn't for a virus/infection that is new that nobody in life understands how it happened and how they all got infected. You could say that Larry died and then in reviving him, instead of giving the man life you are actually starting his reanimation faster than if you just left him to turn because that moment was never done before.
I did say that I didn't think he was reanimating anyway and i was just throwing in another possibility of reanimation that's all.
You can tear my opinion to be pieces that's fine as long as you don't imply something like this is a fact when we all know it isn't and will always just be our opinions.
There was no way for me to know that you (convinientely) missed that part. I replied for what I saw and I'm glad to hear that you do not agree with such thing.
Actually a user called DarkViolet said something like that in another thread (she/he said that Jane endings were the "canon" ones) and I replied saying that there is no canon ending.
Look Dan, just because they disagree with you it doesn't mean they do not respect your opinion.
Well, I centainly didn't say that but... What about the "How Jane should die" thread? You can see people saying that she should get torn apart bybwalker and even using not so pleasant gifs about it.
Well as I said it looked like you were agreeing with something that said that Jane fans have no right to their opinion. Which would be hypocrital of you (if you agreed with it) because you've asked for your opinion to be respected before.
NorthStars
If you look around on these forums you will see that most anti Kenny fans especially those who like Jane will never say anything good about Kenny but will always mention the bad things he's done. Even times he redeems himself for those bad things, they still have something negative to say. Heck i don't like Jane but i have mentioned previously what i do like about her and the good things she's done and i do acknowledge the bad things that Kenny has done as well but i guess I don't have as much hate for someone as some people here. Sorry had to say it but that's how i see it. Jane fans have a right to like and hate who they want though same as for us Kenny fans
Who said Kenny was a saint? Personally, I never have said that, nor am I implying such.
The only problem I see in your post is when you say that Jane fans have no right to their opinion, ehoch is disrespecting. Saying that Jane's nice after that does not change it.
How would you feel if I posted "People that go with Kenny have the wrong ending. And that's not an opinion."? I think you would just be as pissed as I am because that is disrespecting other opinions.
i had had no idea she said that, thanks for pointing that out and great post i agree completely. People who hate/dislike Kenny are quick to point out that he is the one wanting to kill her just because of the way he goes for her, yet she says something like this that makes her equally as bad
Someone else did earlier, though their comment may have been a joke. Don't remember where that comment was, can you help @kcohere?
Regardless, I said many, not all.
When specifically?
That guy who called Kenny haters shitheads said it. I think that whole thread was removed.
The closest I can think of is at his death
"The fuck you loooking at bitch?Don't act like you didn't love every second of it"
Still overall it seems to suggest she cheated given her behaviour. Always will be unclear though
Yeah like that doesn' imply anything like rape to me.
I really love how you say how anyone who doesn't like Kenny is a just a stupid kid who spends too much time on the Internet with no life. It really helps your bias shine through, bravo, 10/10.
Btw, I hate Kenny, and I just started a kickass job at a Fortune 100 company at the beginning of this month, so I don't really have as much time for the forums these days for obvious reasons. ^_^ So looks like you're wrong about me!~~~
I don't believe Kenny became a monster, because there's a lot worse people to be calling someone that. I think the issue with Kenny is that he simply isn't mentally strong willed like Clementine. Kat and Duck were his world and then that world fell apart and we see the aftermath of that for many episodes afterwards. We see that he isn't coping and is more than happy enough to let Ben die when he learns the teenager was an indirect cause, only to get a moment of redemption when he tries to save Ben in the finale [whom by that point spilled about his whole missing family, which seemed to talk sense into Kenny to at least lay off.]
By Season 2 a few years on it's still apparent Kenny hasn't healed while others who have lost family are moving on or at least coping better. Sarita's the few things holding him together since she found him when he was in a bad way, and brought him back from the brink, likewise how Clementine's appearance helps him in a small way. So losing Sarita pretty much got rid of that large safety net keeping him in a more or less stable mind. The problem with Kenny compared to someone like Sarah for example who loses her dad and has a mental breakdown, is that when it's Kenny, he can become dangerous. In general when he's well, he can still get dangerous if angered or threatened and make brash decisions as a result, so when suffering from the loss of somebody he loves there's even less control. We see this in Episode 3 of Season 1 when Kenny refuses to accept Duck is dying and can potentially get into a fight with Lee if you're not careful with your words, and if we get thrown into that fight and don't block punches, Kenny will beat Lee senseless. In Season 2 Episode 4, we see this similar behavior when talking to Clementine, when Sarita is bitten and dying, or already dead. Although he doesn't lash out at her violently, this was one of the first times I was frightened that Kenny would harm Clementine, when before that never crossed my mind him being capable of that.
I cared about Kenny in Season 1, I didn't agree with him all the time but I cared about the guy and his family and I was moved when he 'disappeared' but I knew he wasn't dead. Season 2, Episode 2 when he came back, I was really happy to see him return and I hugged that son of a bitch. But the episodes afterwards, slowly made me lose the ability to care for the character. He was brash in Season 1 sure, but there were too many times in Season 2 I became annoyed or frustrated by him when we skip to the episodes where he's becoming unhinged after Sarita. It was hard to level out the moments where he was being caring to A.J or Clementine, when in other scenes he was beating up a teenager as if he learnt nothing from Ben, to getting angry at Clementine in moments I was genuinely afraid of what he might do. Even by mistake, Kenny hits her when beating up Arvo after the lake incident if you have Clementine try to stop him, and then there's the scene in truck and Kenny is asking your honest opinion about Wellington and if to side with him, I couldn't even have Clementine do it, because again right there, I worried about him getting angry or hurting her. And then we get the whole sequence with attempting or succeeding to kill Jane; poorly set up as it was, that was the final straw where I couldn't care about him anymore.
Kenny isn't a monster, he just became unwell and dangerous and I think he even realizes it near the end of the game in the endings with him. But by then it was too late for me. If he could do all those things and potentially kill Jane [for what came across as a potential accident of getting a baby killed] I couldn't trust him around Clementine or A.J. So I'm not a Kenny hater, even if there's things that irritate me about him, I stopped caring for him solely because of how the Season 2 went down, and if things had turned out differently, that possibly wouldn't be the case. So I can understand he's a scarred character and he's had a lot happen to him, but there's no denying Kenny is dangerous and that not even Clementine could control him.
And also acting like, by default, if you don't like Kenny or Jane, there's no way you don't adore and worship the other one.
Jeez you guys just can't stop criticising the guy you love to hate lol. I'm glad I don't have this much hatred for people
Well im pretty sure if everywhere you went on these forums and saw the negativity for a character you like, i'm sure i could probably say the same thing about you liking Jane or if there was something or someone you wanted to defend from being heavily criticised
Its not like he cares. He doesnt exist.
To be honest Kenny is an accurate representation of what someone would turn into in that enviornment. So is Jane, So is everyone in episode 5. The main issue is, clementine just isn't. That's my biggest issue with her as a character, she just doesn't react the way a real person would to situations. Lee in season 1 had some similar issues but thats kind of unavoidable with a playable character but overall his responses were pretty good, clementine just doesnt give that feel at all.
True.
Nope. Once again, Im just saying what I have researched. Literally, 90/100 people I have watched or asked liked Kennys ending. Everyone who chose Jane to live, when I saw, they said TWD S2 had a bad ending, because they never got to know Kennys ending. People who chose Kenny, said TWD S2 had a powerfull ending. Im not saying Janes ending is bad, but apparently Kennys ending is WAY better. Just saying what I have observed, not disrespecting anyone with research. But I guess anything that says Kenny is better, even when sometimes its proven in the game, Jane fans will get upset. Jane has a better personality, Kenny has better morals. But Kenny vs Jane, Kenny wins in the ending, as the last thing both of them did, Kennys meant something.
Very true
What the heck is wrong with people? "If you dont agree with my point of view, youre incapable of having relationships". Wtf? This is getting to be too much.
Agreed. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Man, say what you want about Telltale's TWD, but it gets people so fired up for discussion Muhahaha. Especially when someone mentions anything about Kenny.
I like Jane but not that much. Hating Kenny has nothing to do with how I feel about her. Ill defend characters I like but I dont take it personally if another fan doesnt. I cant tell you how many times Ive defended tv Rick from people who just dont get him, but if they persist, I move on because obviously its just not worth the effort to argue with people most of the time when you are getting nowhere.
You aren't exactly singing Jane's praises to the world.
Exactly. In season 2 she just felt like a robot, saying what we command her, having no character of her own.
She also sheathes her knife at one point and tells him not to come near her.
Isnt that the...point of a being the playable character?