Well just took the scene apart word for word this is the exact quote:
"Once the wall was built the saviors came and they spoke with Gregory on their leaders behalf. Then they took this boy, Rory, and beat him to death; said we needed to learn right of the bat"
So i guess i was right? I can't tell if your subtitles were bad or my fan script recreation page is off. I re-watched that scene twice and it sounded more like this but im not sure. Anyway thanks again for your help.
This is a time I dont want them to follow the comic, Abraham is an amazing character and Micheal is a great actor, would love to see him stick around somehow.
what if instead of killing off one those three characters, they instead kill Maggie, Michonne, or Sasha off?
From what I understand, the TV show oftentimes deviates from what is in the comics, so with that said, what if this is another time it does so by killing off the character that is completely unexpected?
In fact honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if either Glenn, or Sasha is killed off. Glenn seems to have become the new moral compass for the group. And as for Sasha, well what honestly does she contribute to the group? I mean yes she's a good shot and all, but other than that what else is special about her?
This is a time I dont want them to follow the comic, Abraham is an amazing character and Micheal is a great actor, would love to see him stick around somehow.
Hey i know its been a while but has anyone noticed that we suffered 100% no consecuence for Morgan sparing all those people. And i mean none, since the worst that came up from them was 'Alpha Wolf' finding Aarons bag which they would have done anyway and kill red jacket guy who any other could have done.
No one was affected by the Wolves being spared. All it did was waste the others time.
Episode 2: Morgan spares 5 wolves and lets them walk away with a gun.
Episode 3: Rick kills all of them with barely any dificulty.
Episode 8: Morgan saves Alpha Wolf again and he escapes with a gun and Denise.
Episode 9: He SAVES Denise constantly and gets taken out by Carol.
Infact Episode 9 backsup Morgans point and makes Carol look like a monster by killing someone in a path of 'redemption' ( though honestly it was more likely he JUST saved Denise because he grew to care for her, something he would have done for others of his 'pack' since he shows he also cared about them. It would be shocking to him but i think Denise needs to study basic psychology to learn that he hasn't changed at all)
What i'm getting at is this: Why are people pissed at Morgans ideology when it has LITERALY had no negative outcomes ? (hell,like i said above it barely had outcomes at all).
I 110% agree with you. Abraham is easily one of my favourites, and Cudlitz has been the perfect casting for him. It would be a total waste of a good character to kill him off before AOW.
This is a time I dont want them to follow the comic, Abraham is an amazing character and Micheal is a great actor, would love to see him stick around somehow.
I 110% agree with you. Abraham is easily one of my favourites, and Cudlitz has been the perfect casting for him. It would be a total waste of a good character to kill him off before AOW.
Morgan, his whole 'I don't kill. Full stop." is going to be really displaced during future storylines, and it's going to get really tedious when we lose characters and he wants to save the bad guys.
I feel it would be the best move, at the moment he's going to be against killing Negan's Saviours, hence he and a few others protest. Now he goes on the walk (if the writers can twist it that way) and gets killed by the people he tried to protect.
Cruel poetic justice, but it does make sense and would fit in his story arch
Well, the whole reason for Denise being in danger is because Morgan spared the Wolf.
Look at things fromm Rick's viewpoint: If a group of people came into your house and started killing everyone in their path, would you let them leave? "Farewell murderers!"
Maybe the reason that morgan sparing the Wolves hasn't had any repercussions is because they killed them on time. What if they came back and killed more people?
Hey i know its been a while but has anyone noticed that we suffered 100% no consecuence for Morgan sparing all those people. And i mean none… more, since the worst that came up from them was 'Alpha Wolf' finding Aarons bag which they would have done anyway and kill red jacket guy who any other could have done.
No one was affected by the Wolves being spared. All it did was waste the others time.
Episode 2: Morgan spares 5 wolves and lets them walk away with a gun.
Episode 3: Rick kills all of them with barely any dificulty.
Episode 8: Morgan saves Alpha Wolf again and he escapes with a gun and Denise.
Episode 9: He SAVES Denise constantly and gets taken out by Carol.
Infact Episode 9 backsup Morgans point and makes Carol look like a monster by killing someone in a path of 'redemption' ( though honestly it was more likely he JUST saved Denise because he grew to care for her, something he would have done for others of his 'pack' sin… [view original content]
Possibly. I know sparing ANY of the Saviors will have bad concequences since all of them are extremely competent. Maybe that will make Morgan finally be affected by his code. Knowing these people ARE a danger that will destroy them. Unlike the Wolves who......had big sticks.
Well, the whole reason for Denise being in danger is because Morgan spared the Wolf.
Look at things fromm Rick's viewpoint: If a group of… more people came into your house and started killing everyone in their path, would you let them leave? "Farewell murderers!"
Maybe the reason that morgan sparing the Wolves hasn't had any repercussions is because they killed them on time. What if they came back and killed more people?
That would work but i doubt it. Ironically for the same reason you doubt Abe's, Kirkman said it was a big mistake to kill him so early.
However if it DID i would find it the greatest irony of all time since: BIGGEST SPOILER IN THE COMICS:
The war against the Saviors ends with most of them surviving, including Negan. Infact the Saviors end up having the largest number of survivors of the war (mostly due to them being an ungodly huge group BEFORE the war)
Morgan, his whole 'I don't kill. Full stop." is going to be really displaced during future storylines, and it's going to get really tedious … morewhen we lose characters and he wants to save the bad guys.
I feel it would be the best move, at the moment he's going to be against killing Negan's Saviours, hence he and a few others protest. Now he goes on the walk (if the writers can twist it that way) and gets killed by the people he tried to protect.
Cruel poetic justice, but it does make sense and would fit in his story arch
Well, Morgan didn't want to free the Alpha Wolf—a.k.a. Owen—until he would've changed; Owen only got out because Morgan and Carol engaged in a fight, so I think it is pretty unfair to blame the former entirely.
Well, the whole reason for Denise being in danger is because Morgan spared the Wolf.
Look at things fromm Rick's viewpoint: If a group of… more people came into your house and started killing everyone in their path, would you let them leave? "Farewell murderers!"
Maybe the reason that morgan sparing the Wolves hasn't had any repercussions is because they killed them on time. What if they came back and killed more people?
What really bugs me is that we saw five Wolves escaping Alexandria, but Rick only found and killed two. I don't know if AMC wasn't able to find the other three actors or what, because everybody has been pretending that the Wolves are all dead.
Hey i know its been a while but has anyone noticed that we suffered 100% no consecuence for Morgan sparing all those people. And i mean none… more, since the worst that came up from them was 'Alpha Wolf' finding Aarons bag which they would have done anyway and kill red jacket guy who any other could have done.
No one was affected by the Wolves being spared. All it did was waste the others time.
Episode 2: Morgan spares 5 wolves and lets them walk away with a gun.
Episode 3: Rick kills all of them with barely any dificulty.
Episode 8: Morgan saves Alpha Wolf again and he escapes with a gun and Denise.
Episode 9: He SAVES Denise constantly and gets taken out by Carol.
Infact Episode 9 backsup Morgans point and makes Carol look like a monster by killing someone in a path of 'redemption' ( though honestly it was more likely he JUST saved Denise because he grew to care for her, something he would have done for others of his 'pack' sin… [view original content]
Oh right, I never knew Morgan was on the Kirkman regret list as well. Then again, they do seemed to have rushed through Morgan's story, he's been the straight guy, the crazy guy and the zen guy. There's not much more they can do with him. I reckon he'll have a few more scenes in the next episodes, perhaps helping Carol with her 'coming back around' storyline or whatever (I hope they don't turn her zen warrior too..). Then he'll get offed, he won't be around much longer I think anyway, and I don't think he has the credentials or reputation to meet Lucille, he's only a '2nd class' character in my opinion
And I know, but I think TV portrays action a lot better (i.e Terminus), so there's probably going to be a higher body count, even if the aforementioned people do survive. In my scenario, I wouldn't be surprised if Rick's decision in the final chapter of AOW wasn't influenced because of Morgan's sacrifice, fitting as Morgan would have been the first casualty against the Saviours.
What's interesting is if Abraham DOES have his comic's fate, will they keep the same death for Negan's entrance? Don't want to copy the comics too much, so whether Abraham dies could be an indicator to whether it may be Glenn or Daryl who may be leaving in the finale. Just a theory. At the moment, I'm calling that Morgan and Glenn won't be with us come S7.
That's just how I think it might pan out. I do just think they'll remix the comics a little bit, keep things fresh.
My point is, if the Wolf was dead, the fight wouldn't have happened. I guess it's up for opinion, you might've been able to give him a second chance (and it has been proven that the wolf could change) but I couldn't.
Well, Morgan didn't want to free the Alpha Wolf—a.k.a. Owen—until he would've changed; Owen only got out because Morgan and Carol engaged in a fight, so I think it is pretty unfair to blame the former entirely.
Look again at the episode. Right after Rick kills those two he sees the other 3 through his rearview mirror sneaking around the van and then machine guns them to death. You probs missed it.
What really bugs me is that we saw five Wolves escaping Alexandria, but Rick only found and killed two. I don't know if AMC wasn't able to find the other three actors or what, because everybody has been pretending that the Wolves are all dead.
Again good argument. My only problem with it being Morgan isn't Part of the main crew persey. He is treated as an outsider and hasn't been there long enough for his death to mean much.
Abe's death was a big moment because it was a member of the main cast being killed by a secondary villain , something most stories would'nt do. It really helped solidify the Saviors as the biggest threat so far.
Now that i think about it Carol could fill that. We see her rethinking her life in the promo, maybe its forshadowing?
I just saw the internacional promo for the next episode and am even more convinced about Carol. You can watch it online, but be warned it might actually spoil the episodes ending (it looks almost identical to a 'previously' intro)
Oh right, I never knew Morgan was on the Kirkman regret list as well. Then again, they do seemed to have rushed through Morgan's story, he's… more been the straight guy, the crazy guy and the zen guy. There's not much more they can do with him. I reckon he'll have a few more scenes in the next episodes, perhaps helping Carol with her 'coming back around' storyline or whatever (I hope they don't turn her zen warrior too..). Then he'll get offed, he won't be around much longer I think anyway, and I don't think he has the credentials or reputation to meet Lucille, he's only a '2nd class' character in my opinion
And I know, but I think TV portrays action a lot better (i.e Terminus), so there's probably going to be a higher body count, even if the aforementioned people do survive. In my scenario, I wouldn't be surprised if Rick's decision in the final chapter of AOW wasn't influenced because of Morgan's sacrifice, fitting as Morgan would have been th… [view original content]
Man, I can't wait for Jesus to unleash his secret weapon
Just rush in there and kill walkers like:
And then finish off Negan and his men all like:
This is exactly what happens in the comics right? Am I close? =D
Oh Jeffrey Dean Morgan then? That's cool, I can definitely see him fitting in the Negan role well. I was hoping Elliot Cowan would be cast though. He's done some enjoyable work as Lorenzo de Medici on Da Vinci's Demons that could have transferred over well (acting style, not character obviously).
Hmm, I thought he might be Dwight. Regardless, I wish they had found a way to keep him around a bit longer. His character was entertaining, for the few minutes he was around.
I think TV Morgan is a lot more popular than Comic Morgan, and he's got a fanbase. In my opinion, I think he has made an impact on the show, we don't often see the 'Don't Kill' argument, Tyreese and Dale being the previously title holders and neither to the extreme of Morgan. He'll be remembered, for better or for worse.
You are right, as she's a similar character to Morgan (gone to an extreme and seemingly coming back around) and it all depends on whether there's more for her character, I think there's more flexibility for her than Morgan though, not mention a larger fanbase. But the finale death is meant to be the absolute shocking, jaw dropping kill. I don't think they're going to kill 2 of the Atlanta 5 in the space of 2/3 episodes. One fanbase is going to be annoyed, I don't think they're brave enough upset another one too, Morgan has smaller support so it makes sense for him to be offed. (I'll openly admit, there's maybe some bias here. Carol dies and I riot). To be honest it could be either, but Morgan fits the frame just a little bit nicer.
I'll not watch the trailer because I'm spoiler conscious but I have seen a screenshot on the forums here.
Again good argument. My only problem with it being Morgan isn't Part of the main crew persey. He is treated as an outsider and hasn't been t… morehere long enough for his death to mean much.
Abe's death was a big moment because it was a member of the main cast being killed by a secondary villain , something most stories would'nt do. It really helped solidify the Saviors as the biggest threat so far.
Now that i think about it Carol could fill that. We see her rethinking her life in the promo, maybe its forshadowing?
I just saw the internacional promo for the next episode and am even more convinced about Carol. You can watch it online, but be warned it might actually spoil the episodes ending (it looks almost identical to a 'previously' intro)
Hmm, I thought he might be Dwight. Regardless, I wish they had found a way to keep him around a bit longer. His character was entertaining, for the few minutes he was around.
Ok i came specifically to warn you. DO NOT LOOK AT IMDB.
THEY APPARENTLY HAVE ALL EPISODE DESCRIPTIONS! THEY MIGHT BE FAKE BUT JUST INCASE AVOID THEM AT ALL COST. IF THEY ARE TRUE THEY SPOIL A LOT. Be careful dude, avoid these.
I think TV Morgan is a lot more popular than Comic Morgan, and he's got a fanbase. In my opinion, I think he has made an impact on the show,… more we don't often see the 'Don't Kill' argument, Tyreese and Dale being the previously title holders and neither to the extreme of Morgan. He'll be remembered, for better or for worse.
You are right, as she's a similar character to Morgan (gone to an extreme and seemingly coming back around) and it all depends on whether there's more for her character, I think there's more flexibility for her than Morgan though, not mention a larger fanbase. But the finale death is meant to be the absolute shocking, jaw dropping kill. I don't think they're going to kill 2 of the Atlanta 5 in the space of 2/3 episodes. One fanbase is going to be annoyed, I don't think they're brave enough upset another one too, Morgan has smaller support so it makes sense for him to be offed. (I'll openly admit, there's maybe some bias he… [view original content]
I loved the episode, some scenes were straight out of the comics but I just want to ask a question, is Carol on that 2 week run with Tara? Cause I wonder if we'll get to see them whilst they're on their run?
Ok i came specifically to warn you. DO NOT LOOK AT IMDB.
THEY APPARENTLY HAVE ALL EPISODE DESCRIPTIONS! THEY MIGHT BE FAKE BUT JUST INCASE AVOID THEM AT ALL COST. IF THEY ARE TRUE THEY SPOIL A LOT. Be careful dude, avoid these.
I loved the episode, some scenes were straight out of the comics but I just want to ask a question, is Carol on that 2 week run with Tara? Cause I wonder if we'll get to see them whilst they're on their run?
Thanks for that man, I'll give that a wide berth for the next month.
If they're from the Spoiling Dead then they're probably true, those guys haven't half ruined some scenes for me. Either way, I'll keep away
Thanks again
Look again at the episode. Right after Rick kills those two he sees the other 3 through his rearview mirror sneaking around the van and then machine guns them to death. You probs missed it.
Tara is on a two week supply run with Heath, as stated by Denise to Daryl on "The Next World". Does anyone have any idea about which city they might be going to?
I know it was a outpost, but it was negans, but I meant that I was right about the battle happening this episode, and about negans group showing up. that was clearly negans group. Also it had pictures of the people negan smashed their heads in
I know it was a outpost, but it was negans, but I meant that I was right about the battle happening this episode, and about negans group showing up. that was clearly negans group. Also it had pictures of the people negan smashed their heads in
Comments
Well just took the scene apart word for word this is the exact quote:
"Once the wall was built the saviors came and they spoke with Gregory on their leaders behalf. Then they took this boy, Rory, and beat him to death; said we needed to learn right of the bat"
So i guess i was right? I can't tell if your subtitles were bad or my fan script recreation page is off. I re-watched that scene twice and it sounded more like this but im not sure. Anyway thanks again for your help.
This is a time I dont want them to follow the comic, Abraham is an amazing character and Micheal is a great actor, would love to see him stick around somehow.
what if instead of killing off one those three characters, they instead kill Maggie, Michonne, or Sasha off?
From what I understand, the TV show oftentimes deviates from what is in the comics, so with that said, what if this is another time it does so by killing off the character that is completely unexpected?
In fact honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if either Glenn, or Sasha is killed off. Glenn seems to have become the new moral compass for the group. And as for Sasha, well what honestly does she contribute to the group? I mean yes she's a good shot and all, but other than that what else is special about her?
Maggie (Lauren Cohan) & Negan (Jeffery Dean Morgan) are playing Bruce Wayne's parents in Batman v Superman.
Atleast from a cómic perspective that is literally fucked up.
But then someone has to takes his place. Who would you be willing to switch him with?
Oh god yeah. My bad
Hey i know its been a while but has anyone noticed that we suffered 100% no consecuence for Morgan sparing all those people. And i mean none, since the worst that came up from them was 'Alpha Wolf' finding Aarons bag which they would have done anyway and kill red jacket guy who any other could have done.
No one was affected by the Wolves being spared. All it did was waste the others time.
Episode 2: Morgan spares 5 wolves and lets them walk away with a gun.
Episode 3: Rick kills all of them with barely any dificulty.
Episode 8: Morgan saves Alpha Wolf again and he escapes with a gun and Denise.
Episode 9: He SAVES Denise constantly and gets taken out by Carol.
Infact Episode 9 backsup Morgans point and makes Carol look like a monster by killing someone in a path of 'redemption' ( though honestly it was more likely he JUST saved Denise because he grew to care for her, something he would have done for others of his 'pack' since he shows he also cared about them. It would be shocking to him but i think Denise needs to study basic psychology to learn that he hasn't changed at all)
What i'm getting at is this: Why are people pissed at Morgans ideology when it has LITERALY had no negative outcomes ? (hell,like i said above it barely had outcomes at all).
I 110% agree with you. Abraham is easily one of my favourites, and Cudlitz has been the perfect casting for him. It would be a total waste of a good character to kill him off before AOW.
But again that scene is going to happen. It needs to be from the core group. Who could replace him?
Morgan, his whole 'I don't kill. Full stop." is going to be really displaced during future storylines, and it's going to get really tedious when we lose characters and he wants to save the bad guys.
I feel it would be the best move, at the moment he's going to be against killing Negan's Saviours, hence he and a few others protest. Now he goes on the walk (if the writers can twist it that way) and gets killed by the people he tried to protect.
Cruel poetic justice, but it does make sense and would fit in his story arch
lmao right
Well, the whole reason for Denise being in danger is because Morgan spared the Wolf.
Look at things fromm Rick's viewpoint: If a group of people came into your house and started killing everyone in their path, would you let them leave? "Farewell murderers!"
Maybe the reason that morgan sparing the Wolves hasn't had any repercussions is because they killed them on time. What if they came back and killed more people?
Possibly. I know sparing ANY of the Saviors will have bad concequences since all of them are extremely competent. Maybe that will make Morgan finally be affected by his code. Knowing these people ARE a danger that will destroy them. Unlike the Wolves who......had big sticks.
That would work but i doubt it. Ironically for the same reason you doubt Abe's, Kirkman said it was a big mistake to kill him so early.
However if it DID i would find it the greatest irony of all time since: BIGGEST SPOILER IN THE COMICS:
The war against the Saviors ends with most of them surviving, including Negan. Infact the Saviors end up having the largest number of survivors of the war (mostly due to them being an ungodly huge group BEFORE the war)
Well, Morgan didn't want to free the Alpha Wolf—a.k.a. Owen—until he would've changed; Owen only got out because Morgan and Carol engaged in a fight, so I think it is pretty unfair to blame the former entirely.
What really bugs me is that we saw five Wolves escaping Alexandria, but Rick only found and killed two. I don't know if AMC wasn't able to find the other three actors or what, because everybody has been pretending that the Wolves are all dead.
Oh right, I never knew Morgan was on the Kirkman regret list as well. Then again, they do seemed to have rushed through Morgan's story, he's been the straight guy, the crazy guy and the zen guy. There's not much more they can do with him. I reckon he'll have a few more scenes in the next episodes, perhaps helping Carol with her 'coming back around' storyline or whatever (I hope they don't turn her zen warrior too..). Then he'll get offed, he won't be around much longer I think anyway, and I don't think he has the credentials or reputation to meet Lucille, he's only a '2nd class' character in my opinion
And I know, but I think TV portrays action a lot better (i.e Terminus), so there's probably going to be a higher body count, even if the aforementioned people do survive. In my scenario, I wouldn't be surprised if Rick's decision in the final chapter of AOW wasn't influenced because of Morgan's sacrifice, fitting as Morgan would have been the first casualty against the Saviours.
What's interesting is if Abraham DOES have his comic's fate, will they keep the same death for Negan's entrance? Don't want to copy the comics too much, so whether Abraham dies could be an indicator to whether it may be Glenn or Daryl who may be leaving in the finale. Just a theory. At the moment, I'm calling that Morgan and Glenn won't be with us come S7.
That's just how I think it might pan out. I do just think they'll remix the comics a little bit, keep things fresh.
My point is, if the Wolf was dead, the fight wouldn't have happened. I guess it's up for opinion, you might've been able to give him a second chance (and it has been proven that the wolf could change) but I couldn't.
Look again at the episode. Right after Rick kills those two he sees the other 3 through his rearview mirror sneaking around the van and then machine guns them to death. You probs missed it.
Again good argument. My only problem with it being Morgan isn't Part of the main crew persey. He is treated as an outsider and hasn't been there long enough for his death to mean much.
Abe's death was a big moment because it was a member of the main cast being killed by a secondary villain , something most stories would'nt do. It really helped solidify the Saviors as the biggest threat so far.
Now that i think about it Carol could fill that. We see her rethinking her life in the promo, maybe its forshadowing?
I just saw the internacional promo for the next episode and am even more convinced about Carol. You can watch it online, but be warned it might actually spoil the episodes ending (it looks almost identical to a 'previously' intro)
Originally, I thought this biker who does the talking was in fact Negan.
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enter link description here
Nope, not at all. Hes just a henchman. Negan has a ton of those.
Solid episode overall. Not quite as good as the last couple of episodes though.
Oh Jeffrey Dean Morgan then? That's cool, I can definitely see him fitting in the Negan role well. I was hoping Elliot Cowan would be cast though. He's done some enjoyable work as Lorenzo de Medici on Da Vinci's Demons that could have transferred over well (acting style, not character obviously).
Still, nice to find out.
Hmm, I thought he might be Dwight. Regardless, I wish they had found a way to keep him around a bit longer. His character was entertaining, for the few minutes he was around.
I think TV Morgan is a lot more popular than Comic Morgan, and he's got a fanbase. In my opinion, I think he has made an impact on the show, we don't often see the 'Don't Kill' argument, Tyreese and Dale being the previously title holders and neither to the extreme of Morgan. He'll be remembered, for better or for worse.
You are right, as she's a similar character to Morgan (gone to an extreme and seemingly coming back around) and it all depends on whether there's more for her character, I think there's more flexibility for her than Morgan though, not mention a larger fanbase. But the finale death is meant to be the absolute shocking, jaw dropping kill. I don't think they're going to kill 2 of the Atlanta 5 in the space of 2/3 episodes. One fanbase is going to be annoyed, I don't think they're brave enough upset another one too, Morgan has smaller support so it makes sense for him to be offed. (I'll openly admit, there's maybe some bias here. Carol dies and I riot). To be honest it could be either, but Morgan fits the frame just a little bit nicer.
I'll not watch the trailer because I'm spoiler conscious but I have seen a screenshot on the forums here.
Dwight actually appeared earlier than this. He and his wife where the people that stole Daryls crossbow (which is now Dwights crossbow)
Ok i came specifically to warn you. DO NOT LOOK AT IMDB.
THEY APPARENTLY HAVE ALL EPISODE DESCRIPTIONS! THEY MIGHT BE FAKE BUT JUST INCASE AVOID THEM AT ALL COST. IF THEY ARE TRUE THEY SPOIL A LOT. Be careful dude, avoid these.
I loved the episode, some scenes were straight out of the comics but I just want to ask a question, is Carol on that 2 week run with Tara? Cause I wonder if we'll get to see them whilst they're on their run?
Thanks for that man, I'll give that a wide berth for the next month.
If they're from the Spoiling Dead then they're probably true, those guys haven't half ruined some scenes for me. Either way, I'll keep away
Thanks again
Tara's out on a run? Completely forgot about that.
I don't know. They might be fake, but just in case.
Yeah, I probably did. To me, it looked like he was wasting the assault rifle's bullets out of frustration. Now everything makes sense, haha.
Tara is on a two week supply run with Heath, as stated by Denise to Daryl on "The Next World". Does anyone have any idea about which city they might be going to?
I was right.. you lied to me... Liesssssssss
No...it WAS just an outpost.
I know it was a outpost, but it was negans, but I meant that I was right about the battle happening this episode, and about negans group showing up. that was clearly negans group. Also it had pictures of the people negan smashed their heads in
The battle could still happen later. Anyway we were both right.