So why didn't one of the adults do it? Maybe they thought it would be harder than it was, but then it would make even less sense to have a child do it. It just makes the group look like completely useless idiots, which they turned out to be.
All she needed to do was put a key into a button, turn and push. Not hard at all.
Also maybe have a look at this article: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/06/30/325230618/preschoolers-outsmart-college-students-in-figuring-out-gadgets
I'm not saying that an eleven year old can't 'do this or that', so I don't feel the need to offer evidence against this particular case since I don't disagree with it.
My point was that because Clementine was not shown to have taken part in any strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility, her expertise from Episode 3 and beyond had felt a little too unbelievable to some for a child at her age and size, and especially when so many adult characters are very dependent on her when they could have easily done the task themselves.
From what we've been told since Season 1, Clementine was an ordinary girl from first-grade who was being watched over by a nanny before the zombie apocalypse arrived. Her sudden competence in Season 2 without much explanation or justification didn't sit well with some players, especially when Clementine's competence levels overreaches the adults she was around with to an almost comical degree.
She was trusting enough to join Lee's group which was 4 months after the outbreak, but you seem to be forgetting that she lost her boyfriend to a stranger, do you really think she would trust anyone after that? She looked like she barely trusted Clementine at that point.
Yes. It might have been hard and taken awhile, but it is possible. In the show Rick was very hesitant about the recruiter from Alexandria, but ultimately let him take them there. Either way these are all "assumptions" as you call them. Neither of us knows what happened, you can't say something didn't happen just as much as I can't say it did during the time skip.
You act as if every 8 year old girl in Thailand can do this, which they can't. Can it happen? Possibly, but with training, which Clementine didn't have. I won't go by that she "possibly" got training like you're trying to say, because there was no mention of it and she clearly didn't get any training that wasn't survival related that Chirsta taught her.
There you go with more assumptions. You act like an 11 year old isn't capable of this or that and you haven't even provided any evidence on your side. I have shown evidence of what someone 3 years younger is capable of. They didn't even have Clem do anything so ridiculous that she would need training. It's not like she was kung fu fighting 100s of zombies.
No shit. Great job at being original with that comeback by the way. :P
So why didn't one of the adults do it? Maybe they thought it would be harder than it was, but then it would make even less sense to have a child do it. It just makes the group look like completely useless idiots, which they turned out to be.
It didn't come out of nowhere, she had been in the apocalypse for 2 years.
Not even living in the apocalypse would make you that strong, or maybe especially not, because you're always malnourished, and muscles would build a lot slower. Against the popular belief, working your muscles every day is not good. It will destroy your body in the long run, also the reason why (regular) athletes don't do sports every day. You will face pain, cramps and lasting exhaustion. All this means that life in the apocalypse actually wouldn't be good for your body at all. Running from walkers and fighting them 24/7 would slowly destroy you, and that isn't even with the added malnourishment.
So why doesn't this apply to the adults who are doing even more constant work and possibly even eating less to make sure the kids have enough food?
The problem is that you seem to forget that 99% of the population are dead or walkers. The ones who weren't fit enough in the beginning of the apocalypse were either lucky to be with someone strong or to live in a safe, well supplied home. The rest of them are dead. That means only the strong enough people are still alive, and the ones who got lucky. Clem is definitley part of the latter, she'd be dead without Lee and, very possibly, Christa later on. Just look at the boy in the attic. That's how Clem would have ended up, and that's what would have and probably did happen to most children.
The truth is that Clementine is only so strong because she's the protagonist.
The point was if S1 were realistic(which seems to be what people want) we would have been someone from the 99%, not the 1%. Clem was lucky in the beginning, but she would have to become strong with Christa. They were only 2 people and had no shelter or protected base, at that point Clem surviving wasn't just luck.
As for Season 1 not being nitpicked as much, I agree on that. People give it way too much credit and let it pass with many flaws. It's definitley a good game, but it's not as good as people make it out to be. There have been better games before it, there have been better games after it's release and there will better games in the future.
Thanks for that. Honestly, if people were as critical on S1 as they are on S2 this probably wouldn't even bother me, but everyone focuses solely on S2.
The Thailand kid argument is still invalid. Just because children have the potential to become martial arts fighters does not mean that it j… moreust comes out of nowhere. Clem was an average 8 year old in Season 1, and was suddenly a warrior in Season 2. Not even living in the apocalypse would make you that strong, or maybe especially not, because you're always malnourished, and muscles would build a lot slower. Against the popular belief, working your muscles every day is not good. It will destroy your body in the long run, also the reason why (regular) athletes don't do sports every day. You will face pain, cramps and lasting exhaustion. All this means that life in the apocalypse actually wouldn't be good for your body at all. Running from walkers and fighting them 24/7 would slowly destroy you, and that isn't even with the added malnourishment.
If you want pure realism the average adult would be in very bad shape and not be able to do muc… [view original content]
There figuring out some puzzle faster than college kids because the puzzle needs to be approached in a weird way. That doesnt make them smar… moreter whatsoever.
Yes it does because this can be applied to real world situations such as everyone's favourite "turning off a wind turbine". Also, care to provide some sources for your position?
Besides clementine is smart thats not the issue, its that she doesnt act like a kid and doesnt get treated like one.
I've actually addressed this already, but go ahead and further explain.
What did she do that needed "strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility"? They didn't have her doing anything that needed any "training".
her expertise from Episode 3 and beyond had felt a little too unbelievable to some for a child at her age and size,
What did she do that needed "expertise"? She wasn't performing surgery.
especially when so many adult characters are very dependent on her when they could have easily done the task themselves.
Adults in Thailand are dependant on their 8 year olds to provide them money. Why don't the adults just do it themselves?
From what we've been told since Season 1, Clementine was an ordinary girl from first-grade who was being watched over by a nanny before the zombie apocalypse arrived. Her sudden competence in Season 2 without much explanation or justification didn't sit well with some players, especially when Clementine's competence levels overreaches the adults she was around with to an almost comical degree.
I will again have to redirect you to the study I posted and hopefully you will provide a source for your side instead just dismissing my source.
I'm not saying that an eleven year old can't 'do this or that', so I don't feel the need to offer evidence against this particular case sinc… moree I don't disagree with it.
My point was that because Clementine was not shown to have taken part in any strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility, her expertise from Episode 3 and beyond had felt a little too unbelievable to some for a child at her age and size, and especially when so many adult characters are very dependent on her when they could have easily done the task themselves.
From what we've been told since Season 1, Clementine was an ordinary girl from first-grade who was being watched over by a nanny before the zombie apocalypse arrived. Her sudden competence in Season 2 without much explanation or justification didn't sit well with some players, especially when Clementine's competence levels overreaches the adults she was around with to an almost comical degree.
Your source that supports your position that,"There figuring out some puzzle faster than college kids because the puzzle needs to be approached in a weird way. That doesnt make them smarter whatsoever."
How often should I say ?! I wrote an entire thread to what I want it to stay under 14 and 13 of this age is very small. Have you seen James (brother of Sam) is 13 years old, this little boy and it will not help you: D
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that your article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this). And thats not the real issue I have with clementine, she gets treated like an adult by the group.
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the treat sarah who is older than clementine like a child. I know clementine could be mature at times and help the group but the writers just didnt make it work
Your source that supports your position that,"There figuring out some puzzle faster than college kids because the puzzle needs to be approached in a weird way. That doesnt make them smarter whatsoever."
How often should I say ?! I wrote an entire thread to what I want it to stay under 14 and 13 of this age is very small. Have you seen James (brother of Sam) is 13 years old, this little boy and it will not help you: D
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that your article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this).
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up your statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the treat sarah who is older than clementine like a child. I know clementine could be mature at times and help the group but the writers just didnt make it work
Why are children in Thailand treated like adults by being the sole provider of money for their families? Adults do not always do what is best for their children and often take advantage of them.
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that y… moreour article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this). And thats not the real issue I have with clementine, she gets treated like an adult by the group.
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the treat sarah who is older than clementine like a child. I know clementine could be mature at times and help the group but the writers just didnt make it work
What did she do that needed "strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility"? They didn't have her doing anything that needed any "training".
Clementine was chosen to cross the bridge with Luke, while clearing walkers along the way with just a hammer, and the trip to the bridge resulted in Luke collapsing into the lower section of the bridge. Clementine had to avoid the walkers on her own, while concentrating on avoiding falling off the bridge when walkers lunges at her.
The next episode, she was volunteered to sneak around Carver's community twice, which involved climbing from the shelves at a large height. One small mistake meant that she would slip and fall to her death, which means that she had to understand what to hold onto with both her arms and leg, and have sufficient grip and upper body strength to not let go.
Later on on that episode, Sarita is bitten and Clementine has the option to chop her bitten arm off to try and save her. She takes two swings onto the arm with a small hatchet, while Lee had to take more than two swings with a fire axe to cut off a man's leg caught into a bear trap with no way to open it by hand.
In the fourth episode, Clementine kicks down a wooden door with little to no trouble. I remember when I was her age, with a much larger build than her, I couldn't even kick down a bedroom door in under a minute. We could assume that the door was fragile and could easily fall apart, but when a group of walkers can't even break it down themselves, it's feels strange that one child only had to kick it at least twice to get it open.
With these in mind, and not having seen Clementine being trained to overcome these kind of obstacles, I had a hard time believing that an ordinary nine year old girl being able to do all of this in just two years with little to no explanation.
Adults in Thailand are dependant on their 8 year olds to provide them money. Why don't the adults just do it themselves?
I don't see why you're bringing up Thailand at this point. Are you asking me why the adults in Thailand are dependent on the children to provide them money, when I'm not from Thailand and wouldn't have any idea why besides culture differences?
Besides, The Walking Dead is set in America, not Thailand.
I will again have to redirect you to the study I posted and hopefully you will provide a source for your side instead just dismissing my source.
Again, your source does not address the points I was trying to make. Which was, again, how they don't exactly specify how it relates to Clementine's own intelligence, wisdom, physical strength, and survival skills in a zombie apocalypse. Just being good with gadgets doesn't automatically mean that you're a genius in multiple fields, it just means you're better with gadgets than the average person.
And I don't feel that I should provide a source about my claims when I'm offering theories, especially when your sources so far doesn't hold any relevance regarding about others felt about Clementine's writing in Season 2.
What did she do that needed "strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility"? They didn't have her doing… more anything that needed any "training".
her expertise from Episode 3 and beyond had felt a little too unbelievable to some for a child at her age and size,
What did she do that needed "expertise"? She wasn't performing surgery.
especially when so many adult characters are very dependent on her when they could have easily done the task themselves.
Adults in Thailand are dependant on their 8 year olds to provide them money. Why don't the adults just do it themselves?
From what we've been told since Season 1, Clementine was an ordinary girl from first-grade who was being watched over by a nanny before the zombie apocalypse arrived. Her sudden competence in Season 2 without much explanation or justification didn't sit well with some players, especially when Clementine's compete… [view original content]
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that yo… moreur article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this).
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up your statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the tre… [view original content]
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up your statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
Do you do your own sources with groups of children and test their capabilities in comparison with a group of adults and get the results, or are you just pulling these sources from the Internet?
Just finding them on the Internet doesn't make them 100% reliable.
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that yo… moreur article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this).
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up your statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the tre… [view original content]
Clementines intelligence and the way she was treated was weird in season 2 and not believable at all and no cherry picked, unverified "sources" are going to change my opinion on that
Did you actually read the source and watch the accompanying video or are you just assuming it is a bad source because you don't want to find your own source?
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up y… moreour statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
Do you do your own sources with groups of children and test their capabilities in comparison with a group of adults and get the results, or are you just pulling these sources from the Internet?
Just finding them on the Internet doesn't make them 100% reliable.
Well im not.
Clementines intelligence and the way she was treated was weird in season 2 and not believable at all and no cherry picked, unverified "sources" are going to change my opinion on that
Did you actually read the source and watch the accompanying video or are you just assuming it is a bad source because you don't want to find your own source?
Alexgo, i have read all youre comments in this topic.
And i came to the conclusion, the people who are responding to you, could have a better discussion with a brick wall.
Alexgo, i have read all youre comments in this topic.
And i came to the conclusion, the people who are responding to you, could have a better discussion with a brick wall.
I've looked up the source, and my conclusion was that while children are more open-minded and flexible at a young age, it still doesn't mean to me that they're necessarily smarter than an adult, especially when they're only 4-5 years old and have yet to develop both physically and mentally.
The Blicket Experiment seems flawed to me, given how a random object can set the machine off while others don't, which leaves the success rate up to chance and not skill.
Did you actually read the source and watch the accompanying video or are you just assuming it is a bad source because you don't want to find your own source?
If we're going that route the adults didn't have any "training" either, so why would they be better than Clem at the stuff you mention?
I don't see why you're bringing up Thailand at this point. Are you asking me why the adults in Thailand are dependent on the children to provide them money, when I'm not from Thailand and wouldn't have any idea why besides culture differences?
Besides, The Walking Dead is set in America, not Thailand.
I don't why you are insistent that adults would act the way you say in the zombie apocalypse when you've never been in one and would have no idea how they act.
The Walking Dead is set in America during a hypothetical Zombie Apocolypse, not the America we know today.
Again, your source does not address the points I was trying to make. Which was, again, how they don't exactly specify how it relates to Clementine's own intelligence, wisdom, physical strength, and survival skills in a zombie apocalypse. Just being good with gadgets doesn't automatically mean that you're a genius in multiple fields, it just means you're better with gadgets than the average person.
You continually insist that the adults would be smarter than Clem. I have shown a source saying how children could be smarter, but you just keep dismissing it without providing any source to support your side. I have also shown how children are capable of being strong and learning skills with the 8 year olds in Thailand, but you also dismiss that as though Clem isn't capable of such things.
What did she do that needed "strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility"? They didn't have her doing… more anything that needed any "training".
Clementine was chosen to cross the bridge with Luke, while clearing walkers along the way with just a hammer, and the trip to the bridge resulted in Luke collapsing into the lower section of the bridge. Clementine had to avoid the walkers on her own, while concentrating on avoiding falling off the bridge when walkers lunges at her.
The next episode, she was volunteered to sneak around Carver's community twice, which involved climbing from the shelves at a large height. One small mistake meant that she would slip and fall to her death, which means that she had to understand what to hold onto with both her arms and leg, and have sufficient grip and upper body strength to not let go.
Later on on that episode, Sarita is bitten and Clementine has the option t… [view original content]
I've looked up the source, and my conclusion was that while children are more open-minded and flexible at a young age, it still doesn't mean… more to me that they're necessarily smarter than an adult, especially when they're only 4-5 years old and have yet to develop both physically and mentally.
The Blicket Experiment seems flawed to me, given how a random object can set the machine off while others don't, which leaves the success rate up to chance and not skill.
This debate is getting a little out of hand. I'm just going to say my part and we're finished.
If we're going that route the adults did have any "training" either, so why would they be better than Clem at the stuff you mention?
That's easy. I'm an average adult, and I'm confident that I am stronger than Clementine, and with experience and training, I would be able to do just as much as Clementine could do, if not much more. Clementine is roughly the same build and height as my soon-to-be 8 year old niece, who I can't imagine would be able to perform all of those feats that Clementine had done at her best, even if my niece somehow found herself stuck in a two year long apocalyptic environment.
Because of the age difference between me and Clementine, at this point in time, Clementine would never keep up with my level of strength and agility.
I don't why you are insistent that adults would act the way you say in the zombie apocalypse when you've never been in one and would have no idea how they act. The Walking Dead is set in America during a hypothetical Zombie Apocolypse, not the America we know today.
It's a bit rich for you to say that when you spent the majority of your argument trying to convince people that an eleven year old girl could do everything you claim that she could do, in a zombie apocalypse you yourself have also never experienced.
And I know that The Walking Dead universe is set in alternative America, but it's still America at the end of the day.
You continually insist that the adults would be smarter than Clem. I have shown a source saying how children could be smarter, but you just keep dismissing it without providing any source to support your side. I have also shown how children are capable of being strong and learning skills with the 8 year olds in Thailand, but you also dismiss that as though Clem isn't capable of such things.
I dismissed them because I've seen no proof in the story of Clementine actually acquiring these skills through learning and training, and yet Clementine is inexplicably shown to be a hardened survivor with little to no explanation. Your sources still doesn't clarify exactly how a trained martial art Thai kid at eight years old and a 4-5 year old succeeding the Blicket Experiment is equivalent to Clementine and her characteristic in Season 2.
Put simply, some of the audience does not like this because it conflicts with the basic 'show, don't tell' rule, and it damages their willing suspension of disbelief when they see Clementine act and behave overly-competent for her age with no justification behind it. Without any explanation, they would perceive the lack of reasoning as lazy writing.
If we're going that route the adults didn't have any "training" either, so why would they be better than Clem at the stuff you mention?
… more I don't see why you're bringing up Thailand at this point. Are you asking me why the adults in Thailand are dependent on the children to provide them money, when I'm not from Thailand and wouldn't have any idea why besides culture differences?
Besides, The Walking Dead is set in America, not Thailand.
I don't why you are insistent that adults would act the way you say in the zombie apocalypse when you've never been in one and would have no idea how they act.
The Walking Dead is set in America during a hypothetical Zombie Apocolypse, not the America we know today.
Again, your source does not address the points I was trying to make. Which was, again, how they don't exactly specify how it relates to Clementine's own intelligence, wisdom, physical strength, and survival skills in a z… [view original content]
So the time skip was actually a time warp where nothing happened?
Duh, I just think what you're saying is unlikely is all. :P
It is unlikely that they ran into a few helpful people? In the show, Morgan runs into that guy that teaches him Aikido.
Alright, sure. A little girl who's bones that hasn't fully developed(not to mention how small she is) shouldn't be able to do half the shit she does. Again, kicking down the door like she's fucking Bigby Wolf is completely stupid and unbelievable. This isn't even adding on that she hasn't been eating right for the past two years like @RichWalk23 said, not only does that mean her bones aren't developing right, it also means that she'll be weaker than she should be.
If 8 year olds can Muay Thai Fight professionally why can't an 11 year old do that? Plus it was a crappy trailer and could have easily had wood rot.
Everyone would malnourished and weak then. If we're going by that no one would have the strength to fend of any zombies or do much of anything and we wouldn't have a game. after a few days everyone would just lie on the floor to weak to move.
You talked about kids in Thailand that can do martial arts, which they have to train for. That's not very convincing evidence.
The point is that if an 8 year old is capable of that an 11 year old is too plus a bit more. You probably didn't realize an 8 year old could Muay Thai fight professionally did you? So you also don't know what an 11 year old is capable of either.
No, they was making her do things that most children shouldn't be able to do. Her kicking down the door, her chopping off someones arm with two swings from an axe(or whatever it was) her killing walkers with hardly any effort past Amid the Ruins.
And children shouldn't be able to get in the ring and be able to receive repeated kicks and punches to the head without any head gear, right? Wrong, they are able to do that.
That's easy. I'm an adult, and I'm confident that I am stronger than Clementine, and with experience and training, I would be able to do just as much as Clementine could do, if not much more. Clementine is roughly the same build and height as my soon-to-be 8 year old niece, who I can't imagine would be able to perform all of those feats that Clementine had done at her best, even if my niece somehow found herself stuck in a two year long apocalyptic environment.
Can you imagine your 8 year old niece Muay Thai fighting and receiving repeated blows to the head without head gear? I am guessing you will say no even though 8 year olds are doing exactly that in Thailand and have no problems doing it. Children are capable of much more than you realize whether you want recognize it or not.
It's a bit rich for you to say that when you spent the majority of your argument trying to convince people that an eleven year old girl could do everything you claim that she could do, in a zombie apocalypse you yourself have also never experienced.
And I know that The Walking Dead universe is set in alternative America, but it's still America at the end of the day.
It is equally rich that you say Clem can't do certain things when you have not experienced the zombie apocalypse either. I have shown what children much younger are capable of in the real world.
It is set in a version of America you have never experienced.
I dismissed them because I've seen no proof in the story of Clementine actually acquiring these skills through learning and training, and yet Clementine is inexplicably shown to be a hardened survivor with little to no explanation. Some of the audience does not like this because it conflicts with the basic 'show, don't tell' rule, and it damages their willing suspension of disbelief when they see Clementine act and behave overly-competent for her age with no justification behind it.
She has been living in the zombie apocalypse for 2 years, she would not be exactly the same and she would definitely have to learn many things and acquire skills to survive. What did she do that was so complicated that it made her seem "overly-competent for her age"? Putting a key into a button, turning and pressing?
This debate is getting a little out of hand. I'm just going to say my part and we're finished.
If we're going that route the adults di… mored have any "training" either, so why would they be better than Clem at the stuff you mention?
That's easy. I'm an average adult, and I'm confident that I am stronger than Clementine, and with experience and training, I would be able to do just as much as Clementine could do, if not much more. Clementine is roughly the same build and height as my soon-to-be 8 year old niece, who I can't imagine would be able to perform all of those feats that Clementine had done at her best, even if my niece somehow found herself stuck in a two year long apocalyptic environment.
Because of the age difference between me and Clementine, at this point in time, Clementine would never keep up with my level of strength and agility.
I don't why you are insistent that adults would act the way you say in the zombie… [view original content]
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that yo… moreur article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this).
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up your statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the tre… [view original content]
I don't really understand the argument with Clementine's age, but I think we can we all agree that she did PRETTY fucking well for someone her age in the zombie apocalypse.
Comments
So why didn't one of the adults do it? Maybe they thought it would be harder than it was, but then it would make even less sense to have a child do it. It just makes the group look like completely useless idiots, which they turned out to be.
I'm not saying that an eleven year old can't 'do this or that', so I don't feel the need to offer evidence against this particular case since I don't disagree with it.
My point was that because Clementine was not shown to have taken part in any strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility, her expertise from Episode 3 and beyond had felt a little too unbelievable to some for a child at her age and size, and especially when so many adult characters are very dependent on her when they could have easily done the task themselves.
From what we've been told since Season 1, Clementine was an ordinary girl from first-grade who was being watched over by a nanny before the zombie apocalypse arrived. Her sudden competence in Season 2 without much explanation or justification didn't sit well with some players, especially when Clementine's competence levels overreaches the adults she was around with to an almost comical degree.
Yes. It might have been hard and taken awhile, but it is possible. In the show Rick was very hesitant about the recruiter from Alexandria, but ultimately let him take them there. Either way these are all "assumptions" as you call them. Neither of us knows what happened, you can't say something didn't happen just as much as I can't say it did during the time skip.
There you go with more assumptions. You act like an 11 year old isn't capable of this or that and you haven't even provided any evidence on your side. I have shown evidence of what someone 3 years younger is capable of. They didn't even have Clem do anything so ridiculous that she would need training. It's not like she was kung fu fighting 100s of zombies.
Thanks.
Why did one of the adults have to do it?
It didn't come out of nowhere, she had been in the apocalypse for 2 years.
So why doesn't this apply to the adults who are doing even more constant work and possibly even eating less to make sure the kids have enough food?
The point was if S1 were realistic(which seems to be what people want) we would have been someone from the 99%, not the 1%. Clem was lucky in the beginning, but she would have to become strong with Christa. They were only 2 people and had no shelter or protected base, at that point Clem surviving wasn't just luck.
Thanks for that. Honestly, if people were as critical on S1 as they are on S2 this probably wouldn't even bother me, but everyone focuses solely on S2.
Sources for what? Clementine being treated like an adult?
If you dont mind me asking how are old are you?
What did she do that needed "strenuous exercises that helps build her muscular strength, endurance, and agility"? They didn't have her doing anything that needed any "training".
What did she do that needed "expertise"? She wasn't performing surgery.
Adults in Thailand are dependant on their 8 year olds to provide them money. Why don't the adults just do it themselves?
I will again have to redirect you to the study I posted and hopefully you will provide a source for your side instead just dismissing my source.
Your source that supports your position that,"There figuring out some puzzle faster than college kids because the puzzle needs to be approached in a weird way. That doesnt make them smarter whatsoever."
How often should I say ?! I wrote an entire thread to what I want it to stay under 14 and 13 of this age is very small. Have you seen James (brother of Sam) is 13 years old, this little boy and it will not help you: D
Wha.... Kids naturally are less intelligent than adults thats just fact also whats with all the source talk? This isnt an essay (not that your article is that good a source anyway or at all relevant to this). And thats not the real issue I have with clementine, she gets treated like an adult by the group.
In that scene the main issue is not just her somehow knowing and being able to turn it off its that carlos asks someone to do it then instantly allows her to do it without question. Earlier Luke makes clementine help him clear a bridge of walkers. Then Alvin makes her check the lodge for supplies. Then clementine has to decide whether they should surrender to carver or not. The group treats her like an adult while the treat sarah who is older than clementine like a child. I know clementine could be mature at times and help the group but the writers just didnt make it work
Additionally, Clementine looks small for her age. (She 1.40 cm and weighs 24) So even at 16 she will look 13.
Nice try, but that's not how it works. You are just stating what you think a child's level of intelligence is. Without a source to back up your statement, it is meaningless. My source proves that children can be smarter than adults and can learn/figure stuff out faster such as "turning off a wind turbine".
Why are children in Thailand treated like adults by being the sole provider of money for their families? Adults do not always do what is best for their children and often take advantage of them.
Clementine was chosen to cross the bridge with Luke, while clearing walkers along the way with just a hammer, and the trip to the bridge resulted in Luke collapsing into the lower section of the bridge. Clementine had to avoid the walkers on her own, while concentrating on avoiding falling off the bridge when walkers lunges at her.
The next episode, she was volunteered to sneak around Carver's community twice, which involved climbing from the shelves at a large height. One small mistake meant that she would slip and fall to her death, which means that she had to understand what to hold onto with both her arms and leg, and have sufficient grip and upper body strength to not let go.
Later on on that episode, Sarita is bitten and Clementine has the option to chop her bitten arm off to try and save her. She takes two swings onto the arm with a small hatchet, while Lee had to take more than two swings with a fire axe to cut off a man's leg caught into a bear trap with no way to open it by hand.
In the fourth episode, Clementine kicks down a wooden door with little to no trouble. I remember when I was her age, with a much larger build than her, I couldn't even kick down a bedroom door in under a minute. We could assume that the door was fragile and could easily fall apart, but when a group of walkers can't even break it down themselves, it's feels strange that one child only had to kick it at least twice to get it open.
With these in mind, and not having seen Clementine being trained to overcome these kind of obstacles, I had a hard time believing that an ordinary nine year old girl being able to do all of this in just two years with little to no explanation.
I don't see why you're bringing up Thailand at this point. Are you asking me why the adults in Thailand are dependent on the children to provide them money, when I'm not from Thailand and wouldn't have any idea why besides culture differences?
Besides, The Walking Dead is set in America, not Thailand.
Again, your source does not address the points I was trying to make. Which was, again, how they don't exactly specify how it relates to Clementine's own intelligence, wisdom, physical strength, and survival skills in a zombie apocalypse. Just being good with gadgets doesn't automatically mean that you're a genius in multiple fields, it just means you're better with gadgets than the average person.
And I don't feel that I should provide a source about my claims when I'm offering theories, especially when your sources so far doesn't hold any relevance regarding about others felt about Clementine's writing in Season 2.
So you really want me to get a source to show that children are less intelligent?
Do you do your own sources with groups of children and test their capabilities in comparison with a group of adults and get the results, or are you just pulling these sources from the Internet?
Just finding them on the Internet doesn't make them 100% reliable.
Yes.
Well im not.
Clementines intelligence and the way she was treated was weird in season 2 and not believable at all and no cherry picked, unverified "sources" are going to change my opinion on that
Did you actually read the source and watch the accompanying video or are you just assuming it is a bad source because you don't want to find your own source?
Then your points are meaningless. Have a nice day.
Alexgo, i have read all youre comments in this topic.
And i came to the conclusion, the people who are responding to you, could have a better discussion with a brick wall.
Was the insult really necessary?
Why resort to insults?
Maby not really, but the points in his posts didn't make sense to me at all.
I shouldn't have done that.
So, im sorry if i have offended you.
I've looked up the source, and my conclusion was that while children are more open-minded and flexible at a young age, it still doesn't mean to me that they're necessarily smarter than an adult, especially when they're only 4-5 years old and have yet to develop both physically and mentally.
The Blicket Experiment seems flawed to me, given how a random object can set the machine off while others don't, which leaves the success rate up to chance and not skill.
If we're going that route the adults didn't have any "training" either, so why would they be better than Clem at the stuff you mention?
I don't why you are insistent that adults would act the way you say in the zombie apocalypse when you've never been in one and would have no idea how they act.
The Walking Dead is set in America during a hypothetical Zombie Apocolypse, not the America we know today.
You continually insist that the adults would be smarter than Clem. I have shown a source saying how children could be smarter, but you just keep dismissing it without providing any source to support your side. I have also shown how children are capable of being strong and learning skills with the 8 year olds in Thailand, but you also dismiss that as though Clem isn't capable of such things.
It shows that Clem, who is 6-7 years older than the kids in this experiment, could figure out how to do thing better than the adults.
This debate is getting a little out of hand. I'm just going to say my part and we're finished.
That's easy. I'm an average adult, and I'm confident that I am stronger than Clementine, and with experience and training, I would be able to do just as much as Clementine could do, if not much more. Clementine is roughly the same build and height as my soon-to-be 8 year old niece, who I can't imagine would be able to perform all of those feats that Clementine had done at her best, even if my niece somehow found herself stuck in a two year long apocalyptic environment.
Because of the age difference between me and Clementine, at this point in time, Clementine would never keep up with my level of strength and agility.
It's a bit rich for you to say that when you spent the majority of your argument trying to convince people that an eleven year old girl could do everything you claim that she could do, in a zombie apocalypse you yourself have also never experienced.
And I know that The Walking Dead universe is set in alternative America, but it's still America at the end of the day.
I dismissed them because I've seen no proof in the story of Clementine actually acquiring these skills through learning and training, and yet Clementine is inexplicably shown to be a hardened survivor with little to no explanation. Your sources still doesn't clarify exactly how a trained martial art Thai kid at eight years old and a 4-5 year old succeeding the Blicket Experiment is equivalent to Clementine and her characteristic in Season 2.
Put simply, some of the audience does not like this because it conflicts with the basic 'show, don't tell' rule, and it damages their willing suspension of disbelief when they see Clementine act and behave overly-competent for her age with no justification behind it. Without any explanation, they would perceive the lack of reasoning as lazy writing.
That's all I have to say.
So the time skip was actually a time warp where nothing happened?
It is unlikely that they ran into a few helpful people? In the show, Morgan runs into that guy that teaches him Aikido.
If 8 year olds can Muay Thai Fight professionally why can't an 11 year old do that? Plus it was a crappy trailer and could have easily had wood rot.
Everyone would malnourished and weak then. If we're going by that no one would have the strength to fend of any zombies or do much of anything and we wouldn't have a game. after a few days everyone would just lie on the floor to weak to move.
The point is that if an 8 year old is capable of that an 11 year old is too plus a bit more. You probably didn't realize an 8 year old could Muay Thai fight professionally did you? So you also don't know what an 11 year old is capable of either.
And children shouldn't be able to get in the ring and be able to receive repeated kicks and punches to the head without any head gear, right? Wrong, they are able to do that.
Because it shows how idiotic they are.
Can you imagine your 8 year old niece Muay Thai fighting and receiving repeated blows to the head without head gear? I am guessing you will say no even though 8 year olds are doing exactly that in Thailand and have no problems doing it. Children are capable of much more than you realize whether you want recognize it or not.
It is equally rich that you say Clem can't do certain things when you have not experienced the zombie apocalypse either. I have shown what children much younger are capable of in the real world.
It is set in a version of America you have never experienced.
She has been living in the zombie apocalypse for 2 years, she would not be exactly the same and she would definitely have to learn many things and acquire skills to survive. What did she do that was so complicated that it made her seem "overly-competent for her age"? Putting a key into a button, turning and pressing?
What shows how idiotic they are?
Letting an eleven-year-old literally press a button to stop a wind turbine.
13 it's very little.
13 is little, but this obsession is uhhh.....
Well this thread went south fast.
The frequency of you mentioning thai children is strange
I don't know whether to laugh or cry
I don't really understand the argument with Clementine's age, but I think we can we all agree that she did PRETTY fucking well for someone her age in the zombie apocalypse.
What? i'm so sorry.