I consider it barely more valid than a fanfiction, honestly. Story-wise, it was assigned to someone else who had no involvement with the planning and thought put into the second game's ending. In the basest sense, they were paid fanfiction writers.
You mean like in Escape from Monkey Island where Ozzie Mandrill went back in time and knocked H.T.Marley into the Whirpool before LeChuck had the chance?
Well, i think the "wrong" thing in CMI wasn't the explanation itself, but simply the fact that did try to explain stuff.
Having the game start in the middle of the ocean without any apparent reason was great : it kind of told you (or could have) "okay, so, we don't have any idea of what this MI2 Ending was supposed to mean, so let's just start from scrap and have some fun". Kind of what Telltale did with Tales and the whole fictional MI5 joke.
The whole sequence in the end wasn't "wrong" because it was bad or anything, but it seemed like trying to hard to link the game to the previous two. I guess some well thought joke along the lines of "who cares ? shut up and die !" would, in the end, have worked better than this tedious and almost desperate try to make sense.
Hahahaha, I just went back and did the ending of MI2 again so it would be fresh, and did so right after playing the SoMI:SE... aside from the obvious references, it seemed as though it was a parody on the Star Wars tale. I mean the story parallels are all there throughout 1 and 2, the end part is obviously the end battle at Cloud City. The end sequence skips ahead to the end of Star Wars ep. 6 and, there being no obvious way to end it there, they picked the dream sequence Deus ex Machina a la Dallas.
Seems to me like they never planned on making more, that they wanted to move on to new franchises and the line with Elaine at the end was simply an out if they were forced to make another one by LA. Problem is that they had all moved on with their lives by the time LA decided to revive the series and the new team was totally in the dark about what Ron really wanted. Seems to me like they didn't want to pick up the "horrible SPELL" ball and just say something like "I lived in a strange place called 'South Dakota' for what seemed like 3 weeks until Lechuck once again attempted to kill me using a voodoo necklace which backfired and destroyed the curse which I had been under. Shortly thereafter Elaine found me unconcious at the the bottom of the deep hole..."
Instead opting to retcon it at the end rather than the beginning, which awkwarded it all up.
But despite all of that story I just made up, I have one lingering question...
What happened to the treasure chest Guybrush was holding on to before he fell?
But despite all of that story I just made up, I have one lingering question...
What happened to the treasure chest Guybrush was holding on to before he fell?
It smashed on the floor, that's the broken case in the first room, although there is no treasure in it, only the mysterious E Ticket.
Well imagine this, YOU'VE just been hired by LucasArts to write the script for the new MI game after MI2, but you have to make sense AND keep it simple for new fans, how would YOU go about it?
Big Whoop is an illusory simulated reality construct of the world as a theme park developed by LeChuck to keep Guybrush docile in his captivity. Guybrush must then recruit a crew to free others from Big Whoop and recruit them to their resistance against LeChuck. Within Big Whoop, they are able to use their understanding of its nature to bend the laws of physics within the simulation, giving them superhuman abilities. Guybrush is "the One", a man prophesied to end LeChuck's control through his limitless control over Big Whoop.
I consider it barely more valid than a fanfiction, honestly. Story-wise, it was assigned to someone else who had no involvement with the planning and thought put into the second game's ending. In the basest sense, they were paid fanfiction writers.
Chuck Jordan was a paid fanfiction writer?
What do you think about the writers of ToMI then? (Specifically Mike Stemmle) Are they paid fanfiction writers too or does Dave Grossman's presence make them genuine?
Best theory I've ever read about Monkey Island (I think it was on this forum) was basically that Guybrush was a failed writer who fell into a coma. His brother, Chuckie, stole his girlfriend from him so in his mind he convinces himself that LeChuck's evil. And his favorite ride as a kid was Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean" so pirates became the main subject of his book and, consequently, his fantasies.
So everytime his mind came closer to the truth, he manages to convince himself otherwise. I like this theory because it explains his skeletal parents (they're dead and he's older), LeChuck and Chuckie's obsession with Elaine, and Guybrush's seemingly adult mind. And it can work with the proceeding games as well.
Hey, I didn't know anyone liked my theory : ) I posted it long time ago on World of MI and later here, in "Calling Mr Grossman" thread. The whole Disney thing isn't that important, as he's a writer (or a game designer) so he writes adventure books about pirates and that's his imaginatory world he escapes to when he can't stand his life anymore.
The moment when you see your parents skeletons under "Lost parents" sign is really creepy and very non-humorous, so probably he has some trauma with his parents.
You know, I was just thinking about the end of LeChuck's revenge, and it just hit me like a brick wall!
So...
No, it wasn't a portal to another dimension.
No, it wasn't a curse by LeChuck.
No, it wasn't Big Whoop!
No, it isn't an overactive imagination.
My theory:
When Guybrush is making his voodoo doll, if I remember correctly, doesn't he use HIS PARENT'S BONES to create it? So..Guybrush makes voodoo doll of LeChuck, and because he used his paren's bones as a part of the doll, it goes wrong. His own voodoo doll's magic MAKES LeChuck his brother! And there you have a reason of why the events took place.
This also fits in with the interview with Ron GIlbert, where when asked if LeChuck was hGuybrush's brother, Ron replied "He is and he isn't.." and also that Big Whoop was meaningless in the game.
When Guybrush is making his voodoo doll, if I remember correctly, doesn't he use HIS PARENT'S BONES to create it? So..Guybrush makes voodoo doll of LeChuck, and because he used his paren's bones as a part of the doll, it goes wrong. His own voodoo doll's magic MAKES LeChuck his brother! And there you have a reason of why the events took place.
This also fits in with the interview with Ron GIlbert, where when asked if LeChuck was hGuybrush's brother, Ron replied "He is and he isn't.." and also that Big Whoop was meaningless in the game.
Thoughts on this one guys?
LeChuck reveals to Guybrush that he is his brother before you start making the voodoo doll, which is why using the bones of your parents makes sense in the first place.
Whatever happens at the end - Guybrush being pulled out of his fantasy, stepping into another dimension through Big Whoop, LeChuck casting a spell on Guybrush... - it is obvious that it has already started happening the minute you meet LeChuck again in the tunnels below Dinky. The game takes a very sudden turn for the surreal and dream-like in this very last part, with modern-day tunnels storing an elevator to Melee Island, (presumably) the broken grog machine from MI1 and the bones of your parents sitting in a waiting room.
But still, he could have lied to Guybrush to get him to make the doll. Isn't it awefully convenient that the bones just happened to be lying there? And also having made a voodoo doll himself, he willingly blows his nose for Guybrush and gives it back to him, knowing what he is probably doing?
If I might quote Roger Ebert talking about the movie Being There "The movie presents us with an image, and while you may discuss the meaning of the image it is not permitted to devise explanations for it. Since Ashby does not show a pier, there is no pier — a movie is exactly what it shows us, and nothing more."
Likewise, what the game shows us is that it is a curse of LeChuck by flashing his eyes. In fact, it goes out of its way to tell us so, by showing Elaine dangling and saying "Gee, I hope he wasn't cursed". Any theories about "the lingering imagination of a child" or "Elaine is just another playmate" is going out of the game and making up explanations.
quote Roger Ebert talking about the movie Being There "The movie presents us with an image, and while you may discuss the meaning of the image it is not permitted to devise explanations for it. Since Ashby does not show a pier, there is no pier — a movie is exactly what it shows us, and nothing more."
Likewise, what the game shows us is that it is a curse of LeChuck by flashing his eyes. In fact, it goes out of its way to tell us so, by showing Elaine dangling and saying "Gee, I hope he wasn't cursed". Any theories about "the lingering imagination of a child" or "Elaine is just another playmate" is going out of the game and making up explanations.
The Elaine scene and glowing eyes could all be there to raise questions. Elaine wondering whether Guybrush is under a spell merely raises the possibility of such, not confirmation of the scenario, and (depending upon the intentions of the author) provides an out for possibly continuing the series.
Plus you got to remember that the guys making the game were not movie directors and probably didn't have a clue as to how things like that were probably meant to go (videogaming was still a young industry at the time), and besides, it's given us all something to debate all these years.
I just remembered when LeChuck is brought back to life by Largo with his beard. Doesn't he tell something to the Voodoo priest? To make a spell? That could be the spell that Elaine refered at the end.
It is pretty clear to me. Le Chuck asked the Voodoo priest to make a spell. But the voodoo needs some strange ingredients to get done. The spell must be fully "activated" by the person that is going to suffer it. So Lechuck's places all the ingredients beneath Dinky Island for Guybrush to find.
The bones are probably LeChuck's parents! Why would two skeletons be put there with a sign saying "Lost Parents"? Isn't that suspicious?
The E-Ticket is probably the portal to Big Whoop and not Big Whoop itself, which may be a park, another dimention, hell, limbo, or any other thing Ron Gilbert had in mind.
Maybe LeChuck wanted Guybrush to be tortured not only physically, but also psychologically. That's why he took Guybrush there. I really doubt they are really brothers. Le Chuck seems to be too much older. He has dark hair and Guybrush is blonde.
It is an ambiguous ending and sometimes I get confused by it, and in that sense it is a brilliant ending because after so many years we are still discusing it, but honestly after you start to analyse it, all points to a spell.
You know what, I'm going to go back to my wacky theory, That E Ticket was Laced with Acid and Guybrush was just tripping balls in those tunnels whilst Elaine escaped and LeChuck gave chase.
You know what, I'm going to go back to my wacky theory, That E Ticket was Laced with Acid and Guybrush was just tripping balls in those tunnels whilst Elaine escaped and LeChuck gave chase.
I actually like that one
So the secret of monkey island is that LSD rules, dude :eek: ?
You know what, I'm going to go back to my wacky theory, That E Ticket was Laced with Acid and Guybrush was just tripping balls in those tunnels whilst Elaine escaped and LeChuck gave chase.
I just thought of a new theory. I don't know if this has been mentioned before. Couldn't Guybrush be unconconcious when he falls with Big Whoop? Interestly most things that happen during the segment beneath Dinky Island refer to Guybrush's memory.
Just think about it. Meele Island dark alley. It's a memory from The Secret of Monkey Island. As is the Grog machine. The dog that takes Le Chuck's hand. Is it Walt? Even if not, Guybrush saw two dogs during this adventure. The parent's skeletons. A memory from the dream Guybrush had. And the pipes in the tunnel? Obviously a memory from beneath Ron's house. It would seem odd that this island's subterrean tunnels. would be connected to Dinky and to Monkey Island. Why does Le Chuck says he is Threepwood's brother? Maybe it's some subconcious message from Guybrush's mind, just like the appearance of his parents.
And when they appear as kids it's possibly a memory of his childhood. Maybe even LeChuck entered Guybrush mind. Big Whoop may be a portal to people's mind. Yeah, something like Psychonauts which Tim Schaffer worked later. Wasn't he involved in this game? And the surreal stuff seems more work from Schaffer than Ron Gilbert.
What's confusing is how much of these scenes are real, how much is hallucination. The tone here is much more surreal than the rest of the game and you can realise that something really strange is going on. And please, don't tell that previous anachronisms and breaking the fourth wall both in TSOMI and MI2 like T-Shirts and "play along Guybrush" show that he is really a kid from present time. They are just the humour of the game.
If Guybrush was a kid he would be really scared of Hook's "monster", he wouldn't be in love, or have difficulty to talk to Elaine. He probably wouldn't have the guts to go to the Cemetery at night and dig to get some bones. He really never acts like a small boy. Just like a silly young guy that wants to be a pirate.
And if he was a real kid... Wouldn't he remember it? Why does he feel confused at first when he sees little Chuckie and his parents?
Why didn't LeChuck told before that Guybrush was his brother? Why didn't he use that knowledge to his benefit before? LeChuck maybe has some characteristics of a bully kid, but again a bully kid doesn't usually dream about marrying a beautiful woman until they are teenager. Even so he would be an extremelly evil bully. He doesn't really act like a kid neither.
And if we are to believe that nonsense that Guybrush is a kid, then why does Elaine appear later? Where is her? She is definitely not an ilusion from Guybrush mind as Threepwood is at that moment in the amusement park confused and starting to believe he is a small boy, so he couldn't be imagining her. She seems real to me. And if she is real, then why would she mention a spell?? Could that have something to do with Big Whoop, the voodo priest, the E-Ticket or the voodoo doll?
Why does LeChuck's eyer sparkle at the end? Is that normal behaviour in contemporary bullies?
There are a lot of stuff that are just for the fun and for being references. Guybrush and LeChuck being brothers is obviously a reference to Empire Strikes Back, but in this case LeChuck is lying, unlike Darth Vader. Chuckie sparkling eyes is possibly a reference to Thriller, which leaves it ambiguous, but I guess it really shows that this is some dream, hallucination and shows that LeChuck is really an evil undead pirate. Let's not be so over analytical about details that are not so relevant.
And if Ron was consulted for the creation of TOMI, why would he keep with the lie? Are these series a farse? After all he knows that Guybrush is a kid, so he never became a pirate. Why does he insist in having piratey adventures instead of going to school?
I don't intend to bash people that think that both first games are just a dream, it's a theory that I considered my self, but after many years I realised that it is not true.
Really most things that lead to believing that it's all a dream, that Guybrush is a writer kid in coma or some strange conclusion like that is wrong in my opinion and I think that if Lucasarts does a new game they have the obligation with its fans to hire Ron Gilbert and that he makes an adventure after Le Chuck's Revenge and explain what happens here in case people still have doubt. I mean, even Lost will have answers to all or most of its secrets. Isn't about time we get some real answers?
Monkey Island has one of the most brilliant endings ever in any medium, because it still has us here debating about what it is all about. But it is about time that we leave this with a conclusion and can have new mysteries in the adventures of Mighty Pirate Guybrush Threepwood. Don't we deserve it after being a fan after so many years and loving so much this amazing creation?
Sorry for bringing up this topic again (although it's an interesting topic). But I just remembered something - relatively early on in MI2, Guybrush falls and hits his head (the Big Tree) and we get a dream sequence with his parents turning into skeletons and dancing the skeleton dance - giving him the instructions on some later puzzle.
Well, he does hit his head pretty hard when the rope breaks because Guybrush refuses to let the Big Whoop treasure chest go. Most likely a lot harder than in the Big Tree. Well, let's say he starts dreaming from that point, like in the Big Tree incident. A lot of what's happened to him up until then (both from MI1 and MI2) is revisited as references or even puzzles. The Grog Machine from MI1 is there, wrecked (he fell on it from a great height so it's obvious it would somewhat messed up). The back alley from MI1. The parents from the Big Tree incidents. The whole voodoo doll puzzle. LeChuck chasing him. Everything is connected to elements from both games, but in a different context. And you know how dreams can take drastic turns and suddenly become a whole new dream, sometimes connecting elements from one dream to the other? Well, at first LeChuck is chasing Guybrush around in dark corridors with no chance of escape (sounds like a classic nightmare, doesn't it), and when he finally caught up with him and you decide it's time to fight back, the dream is taking an unexpected unexplainable turn (Chuckie, Mom and Dad, etc).
Well, it certainly sounds like something I could've dreamt. Not exactly of course, but with elements taken from my own life and put into different contexts.
But yeah, it does kind of points to that. The screen goes all red the first time he falls and hits his head, but the fall was huge and the impact must've been insane - in real life he'd have died from that fall easily - in fact, who knows if he didn't? Killed in search of the supposedly ultimate treasure that turns out to be an inaccurate myth (hence the name Big Whoop), and then LeChuck wakes him up from the dead (annoyed that he wasn't able to kill him himself), and plays a little game with him. In the third game, he was supposed to become Guybrush Threepwood - Mighty Zombie Pirate.
Yup, I cracked the case. You can thank me now, or send a cheque to this adress: (adress removed due to the huge response - I can't answer them all, dammit!)
I consider it barely more valid than a fanfiction, honestly. Story-wise, it was assigned to someone else who had no involvement with the planning and thought put into the second game's ending. In the basest sense, they were paid fanfiction writers.
Actually, no, they weren't. They were professional game designers with years of experience working on SCUMM games, who were tasked with designing a game that would continue a franchise, while also introducing that franchise to new players.
If the "original vision" were so important, and all the "planning and thought" were as elaborate as people on the internet seem to believe they were, I have to wonder why the "real team" would've abandoned that story to go on to other projects. And then come in after the fact and whipped internet fans into a fervor by saying "that's all well and good, but that's not the story we had in mind."
If you're unhappy with the way a videogame turned out, that's entirely reasonable. But if you can't express your opinion without undermining the professionalism and experience of the people who made the game, then maybe you should keep that opinion to yourself.
hmm, i always wondered how something like you would feel about this discussions. like i already said, continueing the mi2 ending definitely wasn't easy. maybe that's why gilbert quit monkey island, because even though he knew what he had in mind for the mi2 ending, he probably realised, that even he couldn't make a mi3 that all the fans would be pleased with.
And if Ron was consulted for the creation of TOMI, why would he keep with the lie? Are these series a farse? After all he knows that Guybrush is a kid, so he never became a pirate. Why does he insist in having piratey adventures instead of going to school?
it's the fifth game now...ron gilbert can't just come to telltale and tell them everything was a lie and they should do something completely different.
the official monkey island plot is the one from curse and escape. telltale is working under license from lucasarts and they stick to their version of the story...not something ron gilbert may have intened some day. furthermore, dave grossman already mentioned, that he knows or at least has a rough idea, what the ending from monkey island 2 meant. but he also sticks to the official story...and that's what ron gilbert does. maybe it's only legal reasons maybe their original idea wasn't all that ellaborate as we believe and they simply want to keep it a mystery. as much as i like to know what the original idea was, i don't want anyone making a new mi3.
Actually, no, they weren't. They were professional game designers with years of experience working on SCUMM games, who were tasked with designing a game that would continue a franchise, while also introducing that franchise to new players.
If the "original vision" were so important, and all the "planning and thought" were as elaborate as people on the internet seem to believe they were, I have to wonder why the "real team" would've abandoned that story to go on to other projects. And then come in after the fact and whipped internet fans into a fervor by saying "that's all well and good, but that's not the story we had in mind."
If you're unhappy with the way a videogame turned out, that's entirely reasonable. But if you can't express your opinion without undermining the professionalism and experience of the people who made the game, then maybe you should keep that opinion to yourself.
I actually never meant to do that, not in the slightest. I actually have every bit of respect for you(and the rest of the team involved with Curse), as a professional. Because overall, Curse is an excellent game, despite my caveats with its execution.
The "validity" I was referring to, and I'm sorry if that sounded incendiary, is that in terms of trying to say what Ron Gilbert might have had in mind when making the ending for the second game, Curse just doesn't factor into the equation any more than anyone's idea does. The word "Fanfiction" wasn't meant to imply quality, just how much it would be in line with any proposed Ron Gilbert Vision™, in that being accepted by LucasArts doesn't make it any more in tune with the intent of the second game's ending any more than a story of whatever quality written by someone else that isn't accepted by LucasArts. One affects future games and the other doesn't, but in terms of a LeChuck's Revenge debate, neither matters.
And don't think the above is me redacting anything because you have a Telltale logo next to your name, or due to your past work credits(other than the part about professional respect, of course). Because if I thought a part of your product DID stink, I'd gladly say so. I've never liked the character art of Curse, and I've always hated the explanation of the LeChuck's Revenge ending. But overall, I love a lot of it. Never get me wrong on that.
I sincerely apologize if anyone was personally offended, that wasn't the intent.
The "validity" I was referring to, and I'm sorry if that sounded incendiary, is that in terms of trying to say what Ron Gilbert might have had in mind when making the ending for the second game, Curse just doesn't factor into the equation any more than anyone's idea does. The word "Fanfiction" wasn't meant to imply quality, just how much it would be in line with any proposed Ron Gilbert Vision™, in that being accepted by LucasArts doesn't make it any more in tune with the intent of the second game's ending any more than a story of whatever quality written by someone else that isn't accepted by LucasArts. One affects future games and the other doesn't, but in terms of a LeChuck's Revenge debate, neither matters.
And don't think the above is me redacting anything because you have a Telltale logo next to your name, or due to your past work credits(other than the part about professional respect, of course). Because if I thought a part of your product DID stink, I'd gladly say so. I've never liked the character art of Curse, and I've always hated the explanation of the LeChuck's Revenge ending. But overall, I love a lot of it. Never get me wrong on that.
I sincerely apologize if anyone was personally offended, that wasn't the intent.
I'm not personally offended, since I neither designed the game nor wrote the story. I was just a programmer who wrote jokes. Jonathan and Larry are the ones who had to not only make a good adventure game, but reference the old game enough to appeal to existing fans, and make sure it appealed to new fans after a several-year absence, and raise the state of the art, and make sense of a nonsensical ending without confusing everyone, and inject some life into a genre that the company insisted was dying, and do it all with roughly the same budget and time frame even though every single element of the game was now more expensive and time-consuming. (Taking five years to make a low-selling adventure game wasn't an option for them). They took it in stride, though, and it never seemed to bother them as much as it bothered me, probably because they had more experience and accepted it as part of professional game development.
And as their reward, they were immediately besieged with people trying to undermine that. Because even though they each had several games under their belt, they hadn't fought to get their name on the front of the box. So from the second the game was released, there were complaints from "fans" that it wasn't made by "the original team." It's annoying enough to be reading that on a website; it's another thing entirely when the project lead on the previous games says that in an interview.
I understand what you're trying to say about how the story in the third game doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the story supposedly planned during the second. But that is a far cry from saying that "the version accepted by LucasArts" is basically "fan fiction." Because one of those stories actually got turned into a working videogame that was well-received and sold a decent-but-nowhere-near-Shadows of the Empire amount. The other is a cool idea that is totally awesome but you'll have to take my word for it because it'll never get made and I won't even tell you what it is. Now which one of those sounds more like fan fiction?
By all means, if you think something is totally great or totally sucks, you should say so. That's part of what message boards are for. Where it crosses the line is when it stops being about the work and starts being about the people who made the work. People are constantly crossing that line with Monkey 4; many of the comments I've read about that game are just plain inexcusably rude. And people started crossing that line with Monkey 3 back in 1997, and they haven't stopped in the 12 years since.
The only sequel that you're allowed to say is invalid and non-canon and doesn't really exist and the writer sucks for making it, is Alien 3.
But yeah, it does kind of points to that. The screen goes all red the first time he falls and hits his head, but the fall was huge and the impact must've been insane - in real life he'd have died from that fall easily - in fact, who knows if he didn't? Killed in search of the supposedly ultimate treasure that turns out to be an inaccurate myth (hence the name Big Whoop), and then LeChuck wakes him up from the dead (annoyed that he wasn't able to kill him himself), and plays a little game with him. In the third game, he was supposed to become Guybrush Threepwood - Mighty Zombie Pirate.
Yup, I cracked the case. You can thank me now, or send a cheque to this adress: (adress removed due to the huge response - I can't answer them all, dammit!)
lol I guess we came to the exact same conclusion. That must mean we're right, aren't we? I think it is a good and satisfactory conclusion. It would have been cool if in the beginning of Ron's MI3 Guybrush would be in a dream with all kinds of crazy stuff from his subconcious mind and LeChuck or Chuckie trying to catch him and torture him.
The only problem if the story ever gets done is that the park would then be part of the dream. A memory from Guybrush childhood and not a real place. By the way, the park is in Booty island apparently. Doesn't that add to the juxtaposition typical of dreams too? Where's is guybrush? In Dinky, Booty or Melee island? It is pretty obvious that it is a dream. The fact that they showed previously the tree dream sequence also makes me believe it. In terms of game design, the ending has stuff previously seen in the game. At the start you have to make a voodoo doll of Largo obtaining ingredients. Exactly teh same happens in the ending with he doing a voodoo doll of LeChuck. Just like that, we had a dream sequence with Guybrush parents and in the ending what do we get... a dream sequence with Guybrush parents!
It makes sense in a design point of view and a narrative element.
The only stuff that I quite wouldn't agree is that Guybrush died while falling. He was probably in a coma or something. After all this is the guy that can hold his breath underwater during ten minutes! A big fall wouldn't kill him so easily.
make sense of a nonsensical ending without confusing everyone
I'm curious, what do you think the ending 'means'? Do you think it was children daydreaming, some voodoo curse, or something else? Would be cool to hear.
By the way, I enjoyed the game, it was a quality product... but I think some of the writing was a bit shoddy, that whole explanation bit by LeChuck for instance.
And I really didn't like the whole carnival idea at the end, either. But up to that point, it was great.
I'm curious, what do you think the ending 'means'? Do you think it was children daydreaming, some voodoo curse, or something else? Would be cool to hear.
By the way, I enjoyed the game, it was a quality product... but I think some of the writing was a bit shoddy, that whole explanation bit by LeChuck for instance.
And I really didn't like the whole carnival idea at the end, either. But up to that point, it was great.
According to me, all points that Guybrush is not a kid, but hit his head when he fell with Big Whoop and started hallucinating. So, all the ending is a dream, but not the full two games.
Hello, I'm a spanish fan of Monkey Island and during many years I have been investigating the secret of Monkey Island. I have read your theories and all the post, I think that all the post are very interesting.
I think I have found a fact very obvious that explain some things... Sorry for my bad english, I'm going to try explain my vision of the two first games...
Ok, come on!
Well, I think that during all this years the people have been blink because the "ending of Monkey 2 effect". The thing is that Ron Gilbert said that the Big Whoop wasn't a important part of the story. This fact let us "eliminate" the end of the ending of Monkey 2 for make theories, ¿ok? Also, Ron denied the theories of the "kid's dream" and the "portal between two worlds".
All ok by now... Then, we have to make a theory from zero, start again with a new theory. No dream. No portals. No Big Whoop (Ron said Big Whoop it's not important in his history). Ok. Now we have the information about the anachronisms that Ron said. The anachronisms have a secret in this story. If you look closely, the anachronisms are part of the Monkey Island universe, they are working in this world (lighting signs, plates of Elvis, grog machines, eeem... I don't find the word... um... ¿"water drump" that control the waterfall in Phatt Island?
Well, it's clear to me that those anachronisms didn't come from other world... No! This anachronisms are part of Monkey Island world, they was there... always. Then, I think that the world of Monkey 1 and 2 is set in the present, in the year 1990, maybe... But not in the XVII century. This fact it's clear to me, because Ron Gilbert said that the secret was a stupid thing and the anachronisms tell us a secret. But there are no kids. The people of Monkey Island are no kids, they are people in the present, nothig else.
Do you remember the oar in Elaine's Mansion in Booty Island? If Guybrush look that oar, he saw a date in it. The date was 19XX (I don't remember de exact year, but it was 1900 something...).
The plates of Elvis, the grog machines, the costumes... Are the characters in the present and not in the XVII century?
Other intriguin fact: When you talk with Augustus (the old man with the cannon in Booty Island) he said that this year there no treasure hunt because the last year, in the treasure hunt, there was a troubles and some people desecrated some graves... Guybrush is desecrating graves and finding a treasure... Disturbing...
Maybe the places of the two games are a place where the insane people is enclosed? I don't know... Maybe is it a very big setting? I don't know... We need more tracks, more information, I suppose that would we have more information in a Monkey 3 of Gilbert.
But if my theory is true and the world of Monkey Island is in the present... Why there are ghost pirates? Why there are some vudu and magic? Why there are pirates in the XX century? Why, why, why??? :D
hmm, i never paid much attention to the dates in monkey island...or actually i never do.
anyway, your theory is nice, but wouldn't it also support the boy's fantasy theory? all these 20th century elements could indeed mean, that guybrush is actually a more or less modern child at an amusement park, playing pirate. he would include the modern elements in his fantasy, because children usually don't care much for authenticy.
how about this: the monkey island world is really somewhat modern, but not sort of an alternate reality. when guybrush was a child, as seen in the end of mi2, the climate change caused the sealevel to rise and partially destroyed modern technology and society....and everything became pirate-like.
edit: i just checked mi2 and the oar in elaine's bedroom just says '67...
anyway, your theory is nice, but wouldn't it also support the boy's fantasy theory? all these 20th century elements could indeed mean, that guybrush is actually a more or less modern child at an amusement park, playing pirate. he would include the modern elements in his fantasy, because children usually don't care much for authenticy.
how about this: the monkey island world is really somewhat modern, but not sort of an alternate reality. when guybrush was a child, as seen in the end of mi2, the climate change caused the sealevel to rise and partially destroyed modern technology and society....and everything became pirate-like.
Well, I don't pay much attention to the dates in Monkey Island too, but this date in the oar it's very intriguing... I think that this date in the oar it's an anachronism whith relevance in the story... There are not only "visual anachronism", there are "in-game text" anachronism too... Things that the characters saids, things written in the objects, etc... The plate of Elvis can be interesting too... Elvis was in 1950's, then the world of Monkey Island can be later of this... The first pirate in the Mêlée Island forest said: "Come on, Guybrush, the people spoken in this way in the XVII century, follow the game" or something like this...
Mmm, respect to the boy's fantasy theory... no, I don't want support this theory, because Ron denied it. Ron said that this theory was not the secret of Monkey Island. He said the Big Whoop was not important in his story, then I think that the fans have to take another direction to the theories, we are locked in the ending of Monkey 2 and maybe this ending is not so important (Ron said it). Maybe there are other posibilities...
Mmm... Insane people in a abandoned amusement park? A place where the people is locked? I don't know, but the fact I think is clear to me is that the world of Monkey Island maybe is set in the present... but Ron said that the theory of the boy's dream is not close. We need a new theory to explain all things.
Do you remember the words of voodoo lady in Monkey 1? She said to Guybrush that he cares of himself and what he will discover about his world... Disturbing.
What about the Bermuda Triangle? Isn't that somewhere in the caribbean? The world of Monkey Island is trapped in the Bermuda Triangle, that way everything in the world could be a mix of different periods, while the pirates are ancestors of the original pirates from the fifteenth century (or so). Everyone but Guybrush, who's washed up on the beach on Melee Island, with no memory whatsoever. He recently just arrived in the Monkey Island "dimension". The supernatural elements also is a Bermuda Triangle sideffect. Also, notice how the Bermuda Triangle is parodied on the MI2 map when trying to select places in the sea other than the Islands?
So, the world of Monkey Island exists in the presence, but in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle. Not visible to the outside world, and there's no way to leave - unless you have the E-Ticket? Hmmm...
What about the Bermuda Triangle? Isn't that somewhere in the caribbean? The world of Monkey Island is trapped in the Bermuda Triangle, that way everything in the world could be a mix of different periods, while the pirates are ancestors of the original pirates from the fifteenth century (or so). Everyone but Guybrush, who's washed up on the beach on Melee Island, with no memory whatsoever. He recently just arrived in the Monkey Island "dimension". The supernatural elements also is a Bermuda Triangle sideffect. Also, notice how the Bermuda Triangle is parodied on the MI2 map when trying to select places in the sea other than the Islands?
So, the world of Monkey Island exists in the presence, but in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle. Not visible to the outside world, and there's no way to leave - unless you have the E-Ticket? Hmmm...
This is starting to seem like Lost theories... Maybe they are in limbo?
h
how about this: the monkey island world is really somewhat modern, but not sort of an alternate reality. when guybrush was a child, as seen in the end of mi2, the climate change caused the sealevel to rise and partially destroyed modern technology and society....and everything became pirate-like.
With my bad english I dind't see this theory. It's a brilliant theory! I like it But we have to explain who LeChuck is, why there are vudu powers in this world and much things...
The Bermuda Triangle and Limbo are a very good theories too!
The thing is... we don't know if the fact of Monkey Island is set in the present is true or wrong... I think maybe is true, but who knows? We don't know 100% sure. If this fact is true (almost fits with the anachronisms and the words of Gilbert in the interviews) we have a new problem: There are many theories which can be built over this base and we don't know which is true...
I want replay the 2 firts games and collect more information, make a list of
anachronisms and make a list of mysterious phrases in the game...
Monkey Island isn't set in present day, whichever theory you decide.
If it is a kids dream, then it still is in the past.... the carnival at the end is ANYTHING but a modern day themepark, even his parents have victorian-like clothes... so I think it's safe to say that even if it is a themepark visiting kid's dream, the vending machines and other modern-day devices are nothing more than a funny refference and meant as a joke and nothing more.
I personally hate the whole dream idea... I think it's a cheap way to make a story... an easy way out if you will.
If he is a kid, Why would guybrush see his parents as skeletons singing a song, and later on the lost-parents bench??? I know a lot of kids have grudges against their parents at some point, but this would be very very sick.
If Guybrush is actually being chased by his brother through two games, then why would Guybrush intentionally go looking for him.
And the voodoo-lady is helping guybrush, why does she intentionally send Guybrush after LeChuck if it was all a dream???
the whole Carnival-Dream-Plaything actually causes more story problems than what the current CMI causes.
so again: Please Mr Gilbert, give us the story in any form (script, cartoon,comic, movie, game)... or are you just playing with us and is the real secret of Monkey Island that there is no other story than CMI???
(actually that would perfectly fit into the whole Monkey Island story lines, hehehe)
Comments
You mean like in Escape from Monkey Island where Ozzie Mandrill went back in time and knocked H.T.Marley into the Whirpool before LeChuck had the chance?
OOOOHHHHHH
Having the game start in the middle of the ocean without any apparent reason was great : it kind of told you (or could have) "okay, so, we don't have any idea of what this MI2 Ending was supposed to mean, so let's just start from scrap and have some fun". Kind of what Telltale did with Tales and the whole fictional MI5 joke.
The whole sequence in the end wasn't "wrong" because it was bad or anything, but it seemed like trying to hard to link the game to the previous two. I guess some well thought joke along the lines of "who cares ? shut up and die !" would, in the end, have worked better than this tedious and almost desperate try to make sense.
Seems to me like they never planned on making more, that they wanted to move on to new franchises and the line with Elaine at the end was simply an out if they were forced to make another one by LA. Problem is that they had all moved on with their lives by the time LA decided to revive the series and the new team was totally in the dark about what Ron really wanted. Seems to me like they didn't want to pick up the "horrible SPELL" ball and just say something like "I lived in a strange place called 'South Dakota' for what seemed like 3 weeks until Lechuck once again attempted to kill me using a voodoo necklace which backfired and destroyed the curse which I had been under. Shortly thereafter Elaine found me unconcious at the the bottom of the deep hole..."
Instead opting to retcon it at the end rather than the beginning, which awkwarded it all up.
But despite all of that story I just made up, I have one lingering question...
What happened to the treasure chest Guybrush was holding on to before he fell?
It smashed on the floor, that's the broken case in the first room, although there is no treasure in it, only the mysterious E Ticket.
Big Whoop is an illusory simulated reality construct of the world as a theme park developed by LeChuck to keep Guybrush docile in his captivity. Guybrush must then recruit a crew to free others from Big Whoop and recruit them to their resistance against LeChuck. Within Big Whoop, they are able to use their understanding of its nature to bend the laws of physics within the simulation, giving them superhuman abilities. Guybrush is "the One", a man prophesied to end LeChuck's control through his limitless control over Big Whoop.
That's how I would go about it.
Chuck Jordan was a paid fanfiction writer?
What do you think about the writers of ToMI then? (Specifically Mike Stemmle) Are they paid fanfiction writers too or does Dave Grossman's presence make them genuine?
Hey, I didn't know anyone liked my theory : ) I posted it long time ago on World of MI and later here, in "Calling Mr Grossman" thread. The whole Disney thing isn't that important, as he's a writer (or a game designer) so he writes adventure books about pirates and that's his imaginatory world he escapes to when he can't stand his life anymore.
The moment when you see your parents skeletons under "Lost parents" sign is really creepy and very non-humorous, so probably he has some trauma with his parents.
So...
No, it wasn't a portal to another dimension.
No, it wasn't a curse by LeChuck.
No, it wasn't Big Whoop!
No, it isn't an overactive imagination.
My theory:
When Guybrush is making his voodoo doll, if I remember correctly, doesn't he use HIS PARENT'S BONES to create it? So..Guybrush makes voodoo doll of LeChuck, and because he used his paren's bones as a part of the doll, it goes wrong. His own voodoo doll's magic MAKES LeChuck his brother! And there you have a reason of why the events took place.
This also fits in with the interview with Ron GIlbert, where when asked if LeChuck was hGuybrush's brother, Ron replied "He is and he isn't.." and also that Big Whoop was meaningless in the game.
Thoughts on this one guys?
LeChuck reveals to Guybrush that he is his brother before you start making the voodoo doll, which is why using the bones of your parents makes sense in the first place.
Whatever happens at the end - Guybrush being pulled out of his fantasy, stepping into another dimension through Big Whoop, LeChuck casting a spell on Guybrush... - it is obvious that it has already started happening the minute you meet LeChuck again in the tunnels below Dinky. The game takes a very sudden turn for the surreal and dream-like in this very last part, with modern-day tunnels storing an elevator to Melee Island, (presumably) the broken grog machine from MI1 and the bones of your parents sitting in a waiting room.
But still, he could have lied to Guybrush to get him to make the doll. Isn't it awefully convenient that the bones just happened to be lying there? And also having made a voodoo doll himself, he willingly blows his nose for Guybrush and gives it back to him, knowing what he is probably doing?
Likewise, what the game shows us is that it is a curse of LeChuck by flashing his eyes. In fact, it goes out of its way to tell us so, by showing Elaine dangling and saying "Gee, I hope he wasn't cursed". Any theories about "the lingering imagination of a child" or "Elaine is just another playmate" is going out of the game and making up explanations.
The Elaine scene and glowing eyes could all be there to raise questions. Elaine wondering whether Guybrush is under a spell merely raises the possibility of such, not confirmation of the scenario, and (depending upon the intentions of the author) provides an out for possibly continuing the series.
Plus you got to remember that the guys making the game were not movie directors and probably didn't have a clue as to how things like that were probably meant to go (videogaming was still a young industry at the time), and besides, it's given us all something to debate all these years.
It is pretty clear to me. Le Chuck asked the Voodoo priest to make a spell. But the voodoo needs some strange ingredients to get done. The spell must be fully "activated" by the person that is going to suffer it. So Lechuck's places all the ingredients beneath Dinky Island for Guybrush to find.
The bones are probably LeChuck's parents! Why would two skeletons be put there with a sign saying "Lost Parents"? Isn't that suspicious?
The E-Ticket is probably the portal to Big Whoop and not Big Whoop itself, which may be a park, another dimention, hell, limbo, or any other thing Ron Gilbert had in mind.
Maybe LeChuck wanted Guybrush to be tortured not only physically, but also psychologically. That's why he took Guybrush there. I really doubt they are really brothers. Le Chuck seems to be too much older. He has dark hair and Guybrush is blonde.
It is an ambiguous ending and sometimes I get confused by it, and in that sense it is a brilliant ending because after so many years we are still discusing it, but honestly after you start to analyse it, all points to a spell.
I actually like that one
So the secret of monkey island is that LSD rules, dude :eek: ?
I just thought of a new theory. I don't know if this has been mentioned before. Couldn't Guybrush be unconconcious when he falls with Big Whoop? Interestly most things that happen during the segment beneath Dinky Island refer to Guybrush's memory.
Just think about it. Meele Island dark alley. It's a memory from The Secret of Monkey Island. As is the Grog machine. The dog that takes Le Chuck's hand. Is it Walt? Even if not, Guybrush saw two dogs during this adventure. The parent's skeletons. A memory from the dream Guybrush had. And the pipes in the tunnel? Obviously a memory from beneath Ron's house. It would seem odd that this island's subterrean tunnels. would be connected to Dinky and to Monkey Island. Why does Le Chuck says he is Threepwood's brother? Maybe it's some subconcious message from Guybrush's mind, just like the appearance of his parents.
And when they appear as kids it's possibly a memory of his childhood. Maybe even LeChuck entered Guybrush mind. Big Whoop may be a portal to people's mind. Yeah, something like Psychonauts which Tim Schaffer worked later. Wasn't he involved in this game? And the surreal stuff seems more work from Schaffer than Ron Gilbert.
What's confusing is how much of these scenes are real, how much is hallucination. The tone here is much more surreal than the rest of the game and you can realise that something really strange is going on. And please, don't tell that previous anachronisms and breaking the fourth wall both in TSOMI and MI2 like T-Shirts and "play along Guybrush" show that he is really a kid from present time. They are just the humour of the game.
If Guybrush was a kid he would be really scared of Hook's "monster", he wouldn't be in love, or have difficulty to talk to Elaine. He probably wouldn't have the guts to go to the Cemetery at night and dig to get some bones. He really never acts like a small boy. Just like a silly young guy that wants to be a pirate.
And if he was a real kid... Wouldn't he remember it? Why does he feel confused at first when he sees little Chuckie and his parents?
Why didn't LeChuck told before that Guybrush was his brother? Why didn't he use that knowledge to his benefit before? LeChuck maybe has some characteristics of a bully kid, but again a bully kid doesn't usually dream about marrying a beautiful woman until they are teenager. Even so he would be an extremelly evil bully. He doesn't really act like a kid neither.
And if we are to believe that nonsense that Guybrush is a kid, then why does Elaine appear later? Where is her? She is definitely not an ilusion from Guybrush mind as Threepwood is at that moment in the amusement park confused and starting to believe he is a small boy, so he couldn't be imagining her. She seems real to me. And if she is real, then why would she mention a spell?? Could that have something to do with Big Whoop, the voodo priest, the E-Ticket or the voodoo doll?
Why does LeChuck's eyer sparkle at the end? Is that normal behaviour in contemporary bullies?
There are a lot of stuff that are just for the fun and for being references. Guybrush and LeChuck being brothers is obviously a reference to Empire Strikes Back, but in this case LeChuck is lying, unlike Darth Vader. Chuckie sparkling eyes is possibly a reference to Thriller, which leaves it ambiguous, but I guess it really shows that this is some dream, hallucination and shows that LeChuck is really an evil undead pirate. Let's not be so over analytical about details that are not so relevant.
And if Ron was consulted for the creation of TOMI, why would he keep with the lie? Are these series a farse? After all he knows that Guybrush is a kid, so he never became a pirate. Why does he insist in having piratey adventures instead of going to school?
I don't intend to bash people that think that both first games are just a dream, it's a theory that I considered my self, but after many years I realised that it is not true.
Really most things that lead to believing that it's all a dream, that Guybrush is a writer kid in coma or some strange conclusion like that is wrong in my opinion and I think that if Lucasarts does a new game they have the obligation with its fans to hire Ron Gilbert and that he makes an adventure after Le Chuck's Revenge and explain what happens here in case people still have doubt. I mean, even Lost will have answers to all or most of its secrets. Isn't about time we get some real answers?
Monkey Island has one of the most brilliant endings ever in any medium, because it still has us here debating about what it is all about. But it is about time that we leave this with a conclusion and can have new mysteries in the adventures of Mighty Pirate Guybrush Threepwood. Don't we deserve it after being a fan after so many years and loving so much this amazing creation?
Not entirely true.
But yeah, it does kind of points to that. The screen goes all red the first time he falls and hits his head, but the fall was huge and the impact must've been insane - in real life he'd have died from that fall easily - in fact, who knows if he didn't? Killed in search of the supposedly ultimate treasure that turns out to be an inaccurate myth (hence the name Big Whoop), and then LeChuck wakes him up from the dead (annoyed that he wasn't able to kill him himself), and plays a little game with him. In the third game, he was supposed to become Guybrush Threepwood - Mighty Zombie Pirate.
Yup, I cracked the case. You can thank me now, or send a cheque to this adress: (adress removed due to the huge response - I can't answer them all, dammit!)
If the "original vision" were so important, and all the "planning and thought" were as elaborate as people on the internet seem to believe they were, I have to wonder why the "real team" would've abandoned that story to go on to other projects. And then come in after the fact and whipped internet fans into a fervor by saying "that's all well and good, but that's not the story we had in mind."
If you're unhappy with the way a videogame turned out, that's entirely reasonable. But if you can't express your opinion without undermining the professionalism and experience of the people who made the game, then maybe you should keep that opinion to yourself.
it's the fifth game now...ron gilbert can't just come to telltale and tell them everything was a lie and they should do something completely different.
the official monkey island plot is the one from curse and escape. telltale is working under license from lucasarts and they stick to their version of the story...not something ron gilbert may have intened some day. furthermore, dave grossman already mentioned, that he knows or at least has a rough idea, what the ending from monkey island 2 meant. but he also sticks to the official story...and that's what ron gilbert does. maybe it's only legal reasons maybe their original idea wasn't all that ellaborate as we believe and they simply want to keep it a mystery. as much as i like to know what the original idea was, i don't want anyone making a new mi3.
The "validity" I was referring to, and I'm sorry if that sounded incendiary, is that in terms of trying to say what Ron Gilbert might have had in mind when making the ending for the second game, Curse just doesn't factor into the equation any more than anyone's idea does. The word "Fanfiction" wasn't meant to imply quality, just how much it would be in line with any proposed Ron Gilbert Vision™, in that being accepted by LucasArts doesn't make it any more in tune with the intent of the second game's ending any more than a story of whatever quality written by someone else that isn't accepted by LucasArts. One affects future games and the other doesn't, but in terms of a LeChuck's Revenge debate, neither matters.
And don't think the above is me redacting anything because you have a Telltale logo next to your name, or due to your past work credits(other than the part about professional respect, of course). Because if I thought a part of your product DID stink, I'd gladly say so. I've never liked the character art of Curse, and I've always hated the explanation of the LeChuck's Revenge ending. But overall, I love a lot of it. Never get me wrong on that.
I sincerely apologize if anyone was personally offended, that wasn't the intent.
And as their reward, they were immediately besieged with people trying to undermine that. Because even though they each had several games under their belt, they hadn't fought to get their name on the front of the box. So from the second the game was released, there were complaints from "fans" that it wasn't made by "the original team." It's annoying enough to be reading that on a website; it's another thing entirely when the project lead on the previous games says that in an interview.
I understand what you're trying to say about how the story in the third game doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the story supposedly planned during the second. But that is a far cry from saying that "the version accepted by LucasArts" is basically "fan fiction." Because one of those stories actually got turned into a working videogame that was well-received and sold a decent-but-nowhere-near-Shadows of the Empire amount. The other is a cool idea that is totally awesome but you'll have to take my word for it because it'll never get made and I won't even tell you what it is. Now which one of those sounds more like fan fiction?
By all means, if you think something is totally great or totally sucks, you should say so. That's part of what message boards are for. Where it crosses the line is when it stops being about the work and starts being about the people who made the work. People are constantly crossing that line with Monkey 4; many of the comments I've read about that game are just plain inexcusably rude. And people started crossing that line with Monkey 3 back in 1997, and they haven't stopped in the 12 years since.
The only sequel that you're allowed to say is invalid and non-canon and doesn't really exist and the writer sucks for making it, is Alien 3.
lol I guess we came to the exact same conclusion. That must mean we're right, aren't we? I think it is a good and satisfactory conclusion. It would have been cool if in the beginning of Ron's MI3 Guybrush would be in a dream with all kinds of crazy stuff from his subconcious mind and LeChuck or Chuckie trying to catch him and torture him.
The only problem if the story ever gets done is that the park would then be part of the dream. A memory from Guybrush childhood and not a real place. By the way, the park is in Booty island apparently. Doesn't that add to the juxtaposition typical of dreams too? Where's is guybrush? In Dinky, Booty or Melee island? It is pretty obvious that it is a dream. The fact that they showed previously the tree dream sequence also makes me believe it. In terms of game design, the ending has stuff previously seen in the game. At the start you have to make a voodoo doll of Largo obtaining ingredients. Exactly teh same happens in the ending with he doing a voodoo doll of LeChuck. Just like that, we had a dream sequence with Guybrush parents and in the ending what do we get... a dream sequence with Guybrush parents!
It makes sense in a design point of view and a narrative element.
The only stuff that I quite wouldn't agree is that Guybrush died while falling. He was probably in a coma or something. After all this is the guy that can hold his breath underwater during ten minutes! A big fall wouldn't kill him so easily.
By the way, I enjoyed the game, it was a quality product... but I think some of the writing was a bit shoddy, that whole explanation bit by LeChuck for instance.
And I really didn't like the whole carnival idea at the end, either. But up to that point, it was great.
lol edited. Thanks.
According to me, all points that Guybrush is not a kid, but hit his head when he fell with Big Whoop and started hallucinating. So, all the ending is a dream, but not the full two games.
I think I have found a fact very obvious that explain some things... Sorry for my bad english, I'm going to try explain my vision of the two first games...
Ok, come on!
Well, I think that during all this years the people have been blink because the "ending of Monkey 2 effect". The thing is that Ron Gilbert said that the Big Whoop wasn't a important part of the story. This fact let us "eliminate" the end of the ending of Monkey 2 for make theories, ¿ok? Also, Ron denied the theories of the "kid's dream" and the "portal between two worlds".
All ok by now... Then, we have to make a theory from zero, start again with a new theory. No dream. No portals. No Big Whoop (Ron said Big Whoop it's not important in his history). Ok. Now we have the information about the anachronisms that Ron said. The anachronisms have a secret in this story. If you look closely, the anachronisms are part of the Monkey Island universe, they are working in this world (lighting signs, plates of Elvis, grog machines, eeem... I don't find the word... um... ¿"water drump" that control the waterfall in Phatt Island?
Well, it's clear to me that those anachronisms didn't come from other world... No! This anachronisms are part of Monkey Island world, they was there... always. Then, I think that the world of Monkey 1 and 2 is set in the present, in the year 1990, maybe... But not in the XVII century. This fact it's clear to me, because Ron Gilbert said that the secret was a stupid thing and the anachronisms tell us a secret. But there are no kids. The people of Monkey Island are no kids, they are people in the present, nothig else.
Do you remember the oar in Elaine's Mansion in Booty Island? If Guybrush look that oar, he saw a date in it. The date was 19XX (I don't remember de exact year, but it was 1900 something...).
The plates of Elvis, the grog machines, the costumes... Are the characters in the present and not in the XVII century?
Other intriguin fact: When you talk with Augustus (the old man with the cannon in Booty Island) he said that this year there no treasure hunt because the last year, in the treasure hunt, there was a troubles and some people desecrated some graves... Guybrush is desecrating graves and finding a treasure... Disturbing...
Maybe the places of the two games are a place where the insane people is enclosed? I don't know... Maybe is it a very big setting? I don't know... We need more tracks, more information, I suppose that would we have more information in a Monkey 3 of Gilbert.
But if my theory is true and the world of Monkey Island is in the present... Why there are ghost pirates? Why there are some vudu and magic? Why there are pirates in the XX century? Why, why, why???
anyway, your theory is nice, but wouldn't it also support the boy's fantasy theory? all these 20th century elements could indeed mean, that guybrush is actually a more or less modern child at an amusement park, playing pirate. he would include the modern elements in his fantasy, because children usually don't care much for authenticy.
how about this: the monkey island world is really somewhat modern, but not sort of an alternate reality. when guybrush was a child, as seen in the end of mi2, the climate change caused the sealevel to rise and partially destroyed modern technology and society....and everything became pirate-like.
edit: i just checked mi2 and the oar in elaine's bedroom just says '67...
don't you mean 4??:D
Well, I don't pay much attention to the dates in Monkey Island too, but this date in the oar it's very intriguing... I think that this date in the oar it's an anachronism whith relevance in the story... There are not only "visual anachronism", there are "in-game text" anachronism too... Things that the characters saids, things written in the objects, etc... The plate of Elvis can be interesting too... Elvis was in 1950's, then the world of Monkey Island can be later of this... The first pirate in the Mêlée Island forest said: "Come on, Guybrush, the people spoken in this way in the XVII century, follow the game" or something like this...
Mmm, respect to the boy's fantasy theory... no, I don't want support this theory, because Ron denied it. Ron said that this theory was not the secret of Monkey Island. He said the Big Whoop was not important in his story, then I think that the fans have to take another direction to the theories, we are locked in the ending of Monkey 2 and maybe this ending is not so important (Ron said it). Maybe there are other posibilities...
Mmm... Insane people in a abandoned amusement park? A place where the people is locked? I don't know, but the fact I think is clear to me is that the world of Monkey Island maybe is set in the present... but Ron said that the theory of the boy's dream is not close. We need a new theory to explain all things.
Do you remember the words of voodoo lady in Monkey 1? She said to Guybrush that he cares of himself and what he will discover about his world... Disturbing.
So, the world of Monkey Island exists in the presence, but in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle. Not visible to the outside world, and there's no way to leave - unless you have the E-Ticket? Hmmm...
This is starting to seem like Lost theories... Maybe they are in limbo?
With my bad english I dind't see this theory. It's a brilliant theory! I like it
The Bermuda Triangle and Limbo are a very good theories too!
The thing is... we don't know if the fact of Monkey Island is set in the present is true or wrong... I think maybe is true, but who knows? We don't know 100% sure. If this fact is true (almost fits with the anachronisms and the words of Gilbert in the interviews) we have a new problem: There are many theories which can be built over this base and we don't know which is true...
I want replay the 2 firts games and collect more information, make a list of
anachronisms and make a list of mysterious phrases in the game...
Come on, Ron, make a Monkey Island 3!
If it is a kids dream, then it still is in the past.... the carnival at the end is ANYTHING but a modern day themepark, even his parents have victorian-like clothes... so I think it's safe to say that even if it is a themepark visiting kid's dream, the vending machines and other modern-day devices are nothing more than a funny refference and meant as a joke and nothing more.
I personally hate the whole dream idea... I think it's a cheap way to make a story... an easy way out if you will.
If he is a kid, Why would guybrush see his parents as skeletons singing a song, and later on the lost-parents bench??? I know a lot of kids have grudges against their parents at some point, but this would be very very sick.
If Guybrush is actually being chased by his brother through two games, then why would Guybrush intentionally go looking for him.
And the voodoo-lady is helping guybrush, why does she intentionally send Guybrush after LeChuck if it was all a dream???
the whole Carnival-Dream-Plaything actually causes more story problems than what the current CMI causes.
so again: Please Mr Gilbert, give us the story in any form (script, cartoon,comic, movie, game)... or are you just playing with us and is the real secret of Monkey Island that there is no other story than CMI???
(actually that would perfectly fit into the whole Monkey Island story lines, hehehe)