Anyone remembers how Sierra comedy games used to end back then?
Larry 3 (
Larry and Patty escape tight spot into parodied version of Sierra headquarters.
)
Space Quest 3 (
Roger brings Two Guys to Earth -again Sierra comes into play.
)
It is almost like guys at Luasarts thought -geez, we can do this type of ending in more ambigious way.
Anyway what did you guys think in middle of game how it would end? When i played it first time some years after it had came out, i just asumed that Big Whoop did what Voodo Lady said it would do, took you to another world and LeChuck just followed you there. When i learned about Curse and droping of LR ending, i designed in my head fantasy game about guy who is small boy in our reality and when his brother disappeares, he finds out that his memories about different kind of life in different kind of reality isn't dream and his brother has gone back to other reality to continue being villain there
I recently came up with the idea that Guybrush and co are all actors, making a pirate b-movie, and in both games you're running around on a giant filming set. Cheap costumes, continuity errors, anachronisms, mysterious dialogues (come on Guybrush, play along, that's how they used to talk back then, etc).
And a lot of b-movies have an open ending, to keep the possibility of a sequel open, thus having a seemingly nonsensical ending in LR. If this theory would be true, the third game could end with a director (perhaps Ron Gilbert himself) say something like "aaaaand CUT! Good work people, we're done."
If this theory would be true, the third game could end with a director (perhaps Ron Gilbert himself) say something like "aaaaand CUT! Good work people, we're done."
Something similar has been done already by Sierra at least two times (in Space Quest 3 and Leisure Suit Larry 3, both were released before the first MI). I'm not bashing the theory, I just think that, knowing the competition between Sierra and LucasArts at the time, if that would be the case, LucasArts would get a lot of flak from the players (it gets enough flak with the child's imagination/theme park theory already).
LSL3 wasn't exactly like that, it was more like a weird paradox thing going on. You play the first three games that Larry wrote, and the third games end with Larry starting to write the games you've already been playing.
Ron Gilbert also said that, even though he liked it it wasn't exactly what he had in mind for the third game. So there are good reasons to theorize on the ending of MI2. I accept that Curse is the official MI3, but I don't believe for a second that Ron's MI3 would be the same, and probably would tie the story toghether a lot better. There's no question in my mind that there was something lost in the story when Ron left LucasArts.
Well, I've read the whole topic, every theory and every discussion and it was really mind-twisting. I think everything that i thought about the ending was discussed. But yet, I didn't see two important aspect that really bugged me.
First: The "Psssst!" sound in SoMI. Who made that sound? Why was it important? And the very interesting part that it came from the exact place where we come up with the elevator in the second game.
Second: In this topic I saw the picture that compares Booty Island and Big Whoop. But no one talked about that what could be the shop on the right side which has a name starts with "S"(Stans on Booty).
And more important: there is a Weenie Shop there. And who had Weenie Shop in the game?... Rapp Scallion
The "Psssst!" sound in SoMI. Who made that sound? Why was it important? And the very interesting part that it came from the exact place where we come up with the elevator in the second game.
I always assumed it was LeChuck, in disguise as Fester, trying to get Guybrush's attention so he could confront him in the alley. It really never occurred to me that it could be anything else.
I can't consider a theory wrong or right, I judge them on where they are based on - true game elements or the gamer's own thought. But I just can't take only one theory. Since Curse's version wasn't what Gilbert wanted, but also since MI3 is not yet to be created, I can take both theories well-founded, spliting the Monkey Island world in two parallel versions, both of which I like.
By the theory saying that everything was Guybrush's imagination, I can justify a lot of MI2 from the Bone Song. Guybrush, while he's in his imaginary world, hits his head and returns partly to the reality. There, he sees his parents who have been looking for him (Where have you been?), but for a reason they can't reach him. So, they give him the clues he needs to get to them, which he interprets as the way to release Wally and himself fro LeChuck's fortress, but in fact they lead him to LeChuck's ambush next to the jail key. Guybrush is happy to see them, thus he dances to the song, but their presence gradually reminds him of his bullying brother, and that's why LeChuck shows up in the "dream sequence". Guybrush had knocked him off previously (in MI1) with "voodoo root beer", and Chuckie returns the favor, but loses him again.
I have to admit that I was speechless when I saw the ending, then Guybrush wouldn't tell his parents about Chuckie's attempt to "kill him", then Chuckie's eyes glowed with evil, then the credits started...nooooo...it can't end like this...and then I saw Elaine over the hole in Dinky Island, which gave me hope...
I played Curse right after that, so it was stuck in my head that it really was LeChuck's evil spell...until I started reading theories and comments.
By the way, Guybrush looks cute as a child
What I didn't like from Curse was LeChuck's ignorance to the Secret. Oh, come on! Why would they do this? They could as well leave the question out of the game, making LeChuck the only person knowing the secret, as Gilbert is the only real person knowing it, or making him dodge the question as he did in his Torture Chamber in MI2. Also, naming a cutscene in Escape "The REAL Secret of Monkey Island" was much too spontaneous and...dump.
As for the Voodoo Lady's sayings, Curse's version enhances her role in Tales. She led Guybrush into Big Whoop so that he would be trapped by LeChuck and she could start her game. "Gilbert"'s version leads Guybrush to the E ticket, giving him unlimited access to all rides in the theme park, along with the opportunity to go wherever he wants, away from his bullying brother.
But, admit it, Curse was much more commercial, aiming for selling and sequels, while Gilbert's version was more...elite. He made it because he wanted to, without thinking how much it would sell.
Again, I like Curse for itself, and because if it weren't for it, there would be neither Escape nor Tales, no Dominic Armato or Earl Boen in the cast :cool: and Gilbert's MI3 would be out of the discussion.
So, in conclusion, I take the Monkey Island world split into two parallel parts: In one Guybrush is a child, fighting to get away from his bullying brother and creating a pirate world for himself. In the other one Guybrush is a real pirate, in love with Elaine and fighting against LeChuck, in the 17th century of a strange yet charming world.
I also love Curse as it is, but when I start to think about the MI2 ending I never mention Curse's explanation. Also, I always look differently on CoMI, EMI and ToMI like an alternate reality or standalone game's from the MI universe, like I never really think about Star Wars episode 1-3(new ones) as really trustworthy sources.
I'm glad you mentioned the Voodo Lady, because I finished the two games again for like a 100th time, and I really listened to her words, and she clearly says, that Guybrus will find shocking things about his world. and also Big Whoop is the only exit from LeChuck. So maybe the "Treasure of Big Whoop"(E-ticket) wasn't the thing that really mattered, it was Big Whoop itself. And I also found a very disturbing fact that is told to us by the "Men of Low Moral Fiber". When we ask them to tell us how they got to Scabb they tell us a really long story: how they got informations about Drinky Island and how their ship wrecked on an island with a loony old man who told them that they are just actors on a stage and nothing is real, and I immediately remembered the "Come on Guybrush, play along." phrase from MI1.
So, maybe they are not just kids, maybe there's something bigger. Maybe Herman, the loony old guy found Big Whoop (he knew a shortcut) and he became wise. Maybe the Voodo Lady was wrong or maybe she is not really "good" (what was a voodo crate doing near to her home, waiting to be taken to LeChuck's fortress?). So maybe Big Whoop is a trap, but then again these are not facts. And the only one who knows the Real Secret and Answers is Ron Gilbert!
It would be so good to see his own MI3!
The whole "we're just actors and the stage is the world" is just a reference to a Shakespeare play I believe. But your brainstorming is not so far from mine.
Also, remember the Jim Carrey movie, The Truman Show? I didn't know, but that movie is based on an episode of The Twilight Zone, more specifically this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Service
A couple of years ago, I had this idea that Monkey 1 and 2 was like the Truman Show, but since the movie came out much later, I canned that thought. However, the Twilight Zone was an 80's series, so it could well have been inspired by the episode I linked to above instead.
It's very interesting, I love the Truman Show, but I never heard about this Twilight Zone-episode (I should really watch all episode, all these mindtwisting plots give me the creeps), so thanks for mentioning it, I will check it out.
Maybe it's not a bad theory at all. Anyhow I never liked the whole "they are only children in a theme park", because it would be too obvious and Ron Gilbert said himself that "One is closer than the others... but not much." So, I'm staying with this Truman Show-like theory!
Comments
Larry 3 (
Space Quest 3 (
It is almost like guys at Luasarts thought -geez, we can do this type of ending in more ambigious way.
Anyway what did you guys think in middle of game how it would end? When i played it first time some years after it had came out, i just asumed that Big Whoop did what Voodo Lady said it would do, took you to another world and LeChuck just followed you there. When i learned about Curse and droping of LR ending, i designed in my head fantasy game about guy who is small boy in our reality and when his brother disappeares, he finds out that his memories about different kind of life in different kind of reality isn't dream and his brother has gone back to other reality to continue being villain there
And a lot of b-movies have an open ending, to keep the possibility of a sequel open, thus having a seemingly nonsensical ending in LR. If this theory would be true, the third game could end with a director (perhaps Ron Gilbert himself) say something like "aaaaand CUT! Good work people, we're done."
Something similar has been done already by Sierra at least two times (in Space Quest 3 and Leisure Suit Larry 3, both were released before the first MI). I'm not bashing the theory, I just think that, knowing the competition between Sierra and LucasArts at the time, if that would be the case, LucasArts would get a lot of flak from the players (it gets enough flak with the child's imagination/theme park theory already).
First: The "Psssst!" sound in SoMI. Who made that sound? Why was it important? And the very interesting part that it came from the exact place where we come up with the elevator in the second game.
Second: In this topic I saw the picture that compares Booty Island and Big Whoop. But no one talked about that what could be the shop on the right side which has a name starts with "S"(Stans on Booty).
And more important: there is a Weenie Shop there. And who had Weenie Shop in the game?... Rapp Scallion
I always assumed it was LeChuck, in disguise as Fester, trying to get Guybrush's attention so he could confront him in the alley. It really never occurred to me that it could be anything else.
By the theory saying that everything was Guybrush's imagination, I can justify a lot of MI2 from the Bone Song. Guybrush, while he's in his imaginary world, hits his head and returns partly to the reality. There, he sees his parents who have been looking for him (Where have you been?), but for a reason they can't reach him. So, they give him the clues he needs to get to them, which he interprets as the way to release Wally and himself fro LeChuck's fortress, but in fact they lead him to LeChuck's ambush next to the jail key. Guybrush is happy to see them, thus he dances to the song, but their presence gradually reminds him of his bullying brother, and that's why LeChuck shows up in the "dream sequence". Guybrush had knocked him off previously (in MI1) with "voodoo root beer", and Chuckie returns the favor, but loses him again.
I have to admit that I was speechless when I saw the ending, then Guybrush wouldn't tell his parents about Chuckie's attempt to "kill him", then Chuckie's eyes glowed with evil, then the credits started...nooooo...it can't end like this...and then I saw Elaine over the hole in Dinky Island, which gave me hope...
I played Curse right after that, so it was stuck in my head that it really was LeChuck's evil spell...until I started reading theories and comments.
By the way, Guybrush looks cute as a child
What I didn't like from Curse was LeChuck's ignorance to the Secret. Oh, come on! Why would they do this? They could as well leave the question out of the game, making LeChuck the only person knowing the secret, as Gilbert is the only real person knowing it, or making him dodge the question as he did in his Torture Chamber in MI2. Also, naming a cutscene in Escape "The REAL Secret of Monkey Island" was much too spontaneous and...dump.
As for the Voodoo Lady's sayings, Curse's version enhances her role in Tales. She led Guybrush into Big Whoop so that he would be trapped by LeChuck and she could start her game. "Gilbert"'s version leads Guybrush to the E ticket, giving him unlimited access to all rides in the theme park, along with the opportunity to go wherever he wants, away from his bullying brother.
But, admit it, Curse was much more commercial, aiming for selling and sequels, while Gilbert's version was more...elite. He made it because he wanted to, without thinking how much it would sell.
Again, I like Curse for itself, and because if it weren't for it, there would be neither Escape nor Tales, no Dominic Armato or Earl Boen in the cast :cool: and Gilbert's MI3 would be out of the discussion.
So, in conclusion, I take the Monkey Island world split into two parallel parts: In one Guybrush is a child, fighting to get away from his bullying brother and creating a pirate world for himself. In the other one Guybrush is a real pirate, in love with Elaine and fighting against LeChuck, in the 17th century of a strange yet charming world.
I'm glad you mentioned the Voodo Lady, because I finished the two games again for like a 100th time, and I really listened to her words, and she clearly says, that Guybrus will find shocking things about his world. and also Big Whoop is the only exit from LeChuck. So maybe the "Treasure of Big Whoop"(E-ticket) wasn't the thing that really mattered, it was Big Whoop itself. And I also found a very disturbing fact that is told to us by the "Men of Low Moral Fiber". When we ask them to tell us how they got to Scabb they tell us a really long story: how they got informations about Drinky Island and how their ship wrecked on an island with a loony old man who told them that they are just actors on a stage and nothing is real, and I immediately remembered the "Come on Guybrush, play along." phrase from MI1.
So, maybe they are not just kids, maybe there's something bigger. Maybe Herman, the loony old guy found Big Whoop (he knew a shortcut) and he became wise. Maybe the Voodo Lady was wrong or maybe she is not really "good" (what was a voodo crate doing near to her home, waiting to be taken to LeChuck's fortress?). So maybe Big Whoop is a trap, but then again these are not facts. And the only one who knows the Real Secret and Answers is Ron Gilbert!
It would be so good to see his own MI3!
Also, remember the Jim Carrey movie, The Truman Show? I didn't know, but that movie is based on an episode of The Twilight Zone, more specifically this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Service
A couple of years ago, I had this idea that Monkey 1 and 2 was like the Truman Show, but since the movie came out much later, I canned that thought. However, the Twilight Zone was an 80's series, so it could well have been inspired by the episode I linked to above instead.
Maybe it's not a bad theory at all. Anyhow I never liked the whole "they are only children in a theme park", because it would be too obvious and Ron Gilbert said himself that "One is closer than the others... but not much." So, I'm staying with this Truman Show-like theory!