Well, I guess that Luke and Leia both wanted to have sex at one point too.
I just see Ron Gilbert as a 'gaming Lucas' in this matter - he creates stuff on the move.
Leia only kissed Luke in Empire just to annoy Han. The peck on the cheek in A New Hope doesn't really count. Also, storytelling-on-the-fly still doesn't explain Ron saying that Elaine thinks of GB kind of as a little brother when she made overt sexual advances toward him in Secret.
Besides that, saying Ron Gilbert is like the George Lucas of gaming isn't really a positive comparison, since though Lucas had a wonderful imagination in creating Star Wars, he is however terrible at implementing it directly. Most people say Empire and Jedi are the best movies, and that can be largely attributed to the fact that Lucas wasn't the director for either of them.
Leia only kissed Luke in Empire just to annoy Han.
Well, I'm pretty sure, at least, the Luke wanted to have sex with her when he saw her in that hologram in SW4 I mean, he's a young guy, who can blame him?
Besides that, saying Ron Gilbert is like the George Lucas of gaming isn't really a positive comparison, since though Lucas had a wonderful imagination in creating Star Wars, he is however terrible at implementing it directly. Most people say Empire and Jedi are the best movies, and that can be largely attributed to the fact that Lucas wasn't the director for either of them.
Yeah, if you take comparisons too literally.
But really, both Ron and Lucas have good imagination and understanding of what they're doing, both wouldn't have done a timeless classic without the help of others (in case of Ron, it's Dave's and Tim's collaboration which actually turned Monkey Island into Monkey Island we know), and both would make not very good attempts in their respecitve fields if they would decide to be the sole 'creator' which everyone should listen to. The only difference is that Ron is smart enough not to (I'm sure while creating DeathSpank he listened to other people), and if he ever would decide to go '**** it, I'm making MY OWN Monkey Island game (Monkey Island 3?)', then it wouldn't be good. Oh, and both create stuff on the fly. So really, I think of it more as of a realistic comparison than a negative one.
PS. And RotJ is not a really good movie Aside from the tensioned duel between Luke and Vader. And even those moments are spoiled by the stupid Palpatine. Personally, I would never go as far as to think of calling it 'best'.
I've just reacently noticed that Big Whoop is the spitting image of booty island, if you look carefully you can see that the buildings are the same shape and are in the same place, but with things added too them, you can also see a giant S at the furthest right corner of Big Whoop which clearly belongs to Stans, although it does lack the lights.
I just thought I should mention this it's up to whom ever reads this what it mean.
I think LeChuck put a spell on him that made him think hes a child, (Like Kiss of the Spider-Monkey in CMI) but I can't think of why Guybrush returns in a bumper car with 2 heluim balloons.
I think the problem with Luke and Leia is they literally WERE brother and sister.
Thing is, no matter what Monkey Island game we're talking about, Elaine does seem to have this belief that she has to "babysit" Guybrush. Even when they're together, very rarely does Elaine talk to him as if they're on the same level.
Admittedly a pretty bizarre foundation for a relationship, but Guybrush seems to go for that kind of thing, so...
Whatever floats your boat, eh?
I think a few of us have memories of assorted ship debates from assorted media, and the argument of "younger sibling" is usually used to express purely platonic relationships. But Guybrush and Elaine have never been platonic. Even so, Elaine does treat Guybrush much as one would expect an older sister to treat a kid brother. We also have a few reasons to believe that Elaine is a few years older than Guybrush. Just wondering, maybe we aren't supposed to be taking Ron Gilbert so literally?
Edit to Add: De Ja Vu? I find myself suddenly reminded of a big debate from the fandom of Avatar: The Last Airbender. In the second season finale, Katara holds a nearly-dead Aang in an obvious parody of La Pieta. Ship debates went nuts, as some people took this as Katara being Aang's surrogate mother and not a romantic interest. (Completely missing the religious/symbological point of the scene, of course.) It is true to a point that she is very motherly toward Aang, but taken in context, she's very motherly toward everyone, to the point that the characters spend an entire episode making fun of her for it.
Elaine does seem to have this belief that she has to "babysit" Guybrush. Even when they're together, very rarely does Elaine talk to him as if they're on the same level.
lots of cartoons and fictinal works with comedic styles take this angle in romance and marrage. Like Simpsons and Kim Possble
lots of cartoons and fictinal works with comedic styles take this angle in romance and marrage. Like Simpsons and Kim Possble
The problem is that they kind of jumped into this four installments in. If anything, this idea that Elaine has to watch over Guybrush like a parent treats her child may be the only new element from Escape that made a lasting effect on Tales, and I personally think it's ultimately an unwelcome and cheap way to throw in easy-to-write laughs based on sitcom-style relationship comedy that rarely leaves the characters feeling "real". Granted, Monkey Island is by no means a gritty, realistic drama, and it contains its share of caricatures, but these particular caricatures for two of the main characters feels like weak writing. More than that, this aspect of their relationship seems to have been artificially manufactured recently, and it doesn't really feel like a part of their interaction pre-Escape.
Maybe the whole analogy would work better if we bumped the ages up to adolescence and young adulthood.
Like, anyone ever consider maybe that Guybrush might be a bumbling teenager in high school instead of a young boy as portrayed in MI2? And LeChuck might be in college as a freshman or sophomore. Considering his personality, he might be a quarterback for the college football team. A real stud and jock sort. Elaine's the redhead to die for and the leader of some planning committee or another that has a some noticeable on the lives of the students on campus. Something attractive to LeChuck.
Guybrush and LeChuck have never really been terribly abrasive until Elaine came over to babysit - or "escort" - Guybrush. Why? Despite being a generally well-behaved boy, he does have a tendency to be clumsy, and he does have a talent for petty thievery. Elaine's supposed to make sure he doesn't get into any trouble, or hurt or kill himself.
But she's kind of... impressed... by his bumbling self and his boyish good looks. (And he does get good grades, too, so he's more absent-minded than stupid.) So she comes to be tantalised by Guybrush, and infatuated. This, of course, irritates LeChuck and makes him want to kill Guybrush.
My theory is, that it all was a big dream. The little boy had while being on the ride. Gilbert once said he himself was influenced by the disney ride. That's why there are coincidial stuff in the Johnny Depp movies "pirate of the carribean": Gouvernor's Daughter, Dog with keys in prison, voodoo lady etc.
Honestly, I just took the ending of MI2 at face value. Guybrush really was relating the entire game back to Elaine, and then he fell down into the catacombs below Dinky Island. He "beat" LeChuck with the voodoo doll, but then LeChuck "revealed" himself to be Guybrush's little brother, and tricks him into thinking that he's just a little kid at an amusement park. But it's all an illusion by LeChuck. This would explain the weird dream sequence, too - it was something LeChuck planted into his head to make him think about his parents, which was reinforced when he saw the skeletons at the Lost and Found and assumed it was his parents. They were all little things that LeChuck crafted to make Guybrush doubt what world was really "real". Like Inception.
The fact that Elaine showed up at end of the game, and wondered if Guybrush was in trouble/cursed, is enough proof for me. As for why Guybrush apparently spent the time between MI2 and CMI in an actual, tangible Carnival of the Damned... er, I don't really know. Your Mind Makes It Real?
There are a lot of anachronisms in the two first Monkey Island: The T-shirts, the grog machines, the costume shop, the maintenance tunnels and room, the underground ticket (E-ticket)...
Booty Island (whith the costume shop) and Big Whoop entrance can be superposed:
I think that if you only play SoMI and MI2, the child's mind is the most likely theory.
In an interview, Ron Gilbert said that he would love to make an other MI and share his secret with the world. I would love that too ...
In my dreams, Telltales would announce the development of MI3 Prime - The Revelation, the Ron Gilbert non cannon version. I wouldn't mind if it's an old SCUMM based point and click adventure game if it can lower the development costs (actually, I would even prefer ).
It could start right after the end scene of MI2, Guybrush suddenly runs away, parents and Chucky stands puzzled, finally Chucky decides to go after him. Guybrush enters an attraction with his E-ticket (Chucky doesn't have one). Then, progressive transition back to the dream realm: For example Guybrush climbs a ladder and emerge from the hole where Elaine is waiting, but the screen is "half dream, half real". Guybrush doubts. Elaine manage to convince him that he was cursed by LeChuck, take his hands, Guybrush closes his eyes, and when he opens them again, there is no confusion => Back to a pirate adventure. During the game, more and more anachronisms, some of them makes Guybrush very uncomfortable. In the end, the world become very unstable, sometimes, Guybrush go back in the theme park... In reality, Elaine could be a girlfriend, or a even an action figure/doll (shock! in porcelain! shock! shock! That could explain something, if porcelain reminds him that he is in a dream...) that Guybrush forgot in the end of MI2...
Obviously, this can't be what Ron Gilbert had in mind, his secret is still secret, unfortunately...
Since Ron, Dave, and Tim sorta laugh off the twist-upon-twist ending in the commentary, I think it would be really, really funny if Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending.
Since Ron, Dave, and Tim sorta laugh of the twist-upon-twist ending in the commentary, I think it would be really, really funny if Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending.
Actually, that's pretty much what CoMI developers should've done. The explanation made it worse, not better.
Since Ron, Dave, and Tim sorta laugh of the twist-upon-twist ending in the commentary, I think it would be really, really funny if Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending.
Actually, that's pretty much what CoMI developers should've done. The explanation made it worse, not better.
I liked the CoMI introduction, with Guybrush on a bumper car, I really enjoyed the game too. But we all know that the given explanation was not the one Ron Gilbert intended. My only problem is that I am too curious . I would like to know what was in Ron Gilbert's mind about the Secret of Monkey Island. And that has nothing to do with CoMI or latter Monkey Island games.
Ron's MI3 doesn't exist and sadly probably never will. Maybe he just wanted to fool us all (that's also likely). If Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending it would be fine too. At least we would know that Ron's secret of MI is actually that there is no secret ...
Am I the only one who thinks that the similarities between the to backgrounds can possibly be attributed to laziness?
For sure, it could be. We won't know. But the fact that the Costume Shop is a huge place of anachronisms appears quite puzzling to me. Would Booty island be a place where the limit between dream and reality is fuzzy? Could it be possible that Ron's MI3 rebooted on Booty Island?
It's not space issue (obviously, I mean, if it were a space issue there just wouldn't have been one of the backgrounds entirely, redrawed Booty Island has nothing to do with it) and it's neither laziness nor budget reasons (note that almost everything, bar the form of the buildings and a few hedges is absolutely different). If they would want to make them different, they would have - they had the possibilities. It's clearly has been done on purpose.
I never noticed any more anachronisms in the costume shop than any other location in the two games.
Yes, I should have say that the whole shop was an anachronism in itself (in my opinion), as for the maintenance tunnels in the end of the game. Booty Island would be a place where fantasy and reality are very close... As if it was the entrance of the park... where the gift shops usually stand... Still, there is a flaw in my reasoning, why would a gift shops become a costume shop in a child's mind?
It's definitely done on purpose, but I'm not sure why anyone thinks it proves anything. The theme park sequence has things that Guybrush encounters throughout the game. If he's really just a kid, then it's what inspired the idea of those things, but if he's really under a spell, then it's just stuff LeChuck put together to confuse him and blur the lines between reality and fantasy.
It's definitely done on purpose, but I'm not sure why anyone thinks it proves anything. The theme park sequence has things that Guybrush encounters throughout the game. If he's really just a kid, then it's what inspired the idea of those things, but if he's really under a spell, then it's just stuff LeChuck put together to confuse him and blur the lines between reality and fantasy.
I still say that Lechuck knew what he was doing and that it was a curse on Guybrush, how could there have been an MI 3 which we all know Ron had in mind if it was just a kids daydream.
I still say that Lechuck knew what he was doing and that it was a curse on Guybrush, how could there have been an MI 3 which we all know Ron had in mind if it was just a kids daydream.
That's a common misconception that while developing MI2 they had something planned for MI3 in mind. That's the point. They didn't. Even Ron didn't, he said somewhere himself he really never thought about MI3 until after MI2 was released (and even then it were just some vague ideas and stuff). And the ending in MI2 with red eyes/Elaine was put there just in case they decide to make a sequel, but they didn't plan it as a trilogy beforehand.
Maybe he didn't have the story worked out in his mind, but I don't think the ending was like that "just for fun". There's never been any indication wether the ending was meant to reveal anything or not, just that the ending was bold and Ron had to convince the others to use it. I'm fairly certain that the ending was made with a sequel in mind, and the ending was just another hint towards the bigger secret.
Also, if the "boy in an amusement park" theory is true, Ron wouldn't have dismissed it, which he has. Yeah, he might have lied, but I'd rather not think of him as a liar. Besides, suggesting he is one is also rather disrespectfut towards him.
Ok I guess im wrong about MI3 being planned during LR but I guess I just dont like the idea of it being a dream, it just feels like a cheat ending, teachers at school in English always told the class that when writting a story dont make then ending that it was all a dream.
Maybe he didn't have the story worked out in his mind, but I don't think the ending was like that "just for fun".
Didn't the MI2:SE commentary reveal that it was mostly 'just for fun'? (by 'for fun' I mean 'for laughs', and by 'for laughs' I mean 'for people to laugh' ). Tim said they decided to use a twist after twist after twist just, you know, for kicks.
I think I've said this once before somewhere, but what does Big Whoop have anything to do with the secret of Monkey Island? They are two different things. It was never mentioned anywhere in the games that they were connected in anyway , yet the explanation of the ending to MI2 has suddenly been connected to the secret? To me that just doesn't make sense.
Didn't the MI2:SE commentary reveal that it was mostly 'just for fun'? (by 'for fun' I mean 'for laughs', and by 'for laughs' I mean 'for people to laugh' ). Tim said they decided to use a twist after twist after twist just, you know, for kicks.
Okay, "just for fun" was not the correct choice of words. Obviously, they wanted the ending to confuse us (and amuse them). What I'm thinking, though, is that the whole idea of the universe, in this case the "secret", is just an overlay that the stories can be built around. Hence why Ron said that it's still possible to fit his story (that he wanted to be MI3 which he had in mind before CMI, but only after MI2 was released) into the series without discarding CMI.
So, since we have no idea what the secret was supposed to be, despite getting a lot of clues within both games, the way it is revealed was probably not set in stone, and the games needed to follow a certain set of rules so that it wouldn't crash with the "secret".
And the reason I think the "child in a an amusement park" doesn't work is because they've already stated that Big Whoop is exactly what the name implies. Completely irrelevant to the full picture. Considering Big Whoop is the name of the amusement park, it would be a pretty big deal if that was the secret.
So, by saying Big Whoop was never intended to be important, they're basically denying that the ending is important at all and only meant to confuse us. Which leads me to believe that a) Ron's MI3 would explain the ending very briefly then just continuing with the story or b) Ron's MI3 would just call it a dream that happened after Guybrush falls into the tunnels.
Maybe he didn't have the story worked out in his mind, but I don't think the ending was like that "just for fun". There's never been any indication wether the ending was meant to reveal anything or not, just that the ending was bold and Ron had to convince the others to use it. I'm fairly certain that the ending was made with a sequel in mind, and the ending was just another hint towards the bigger secret.
I think you have it slightly backwards.
I think there's no question that the ending was "just for fun". Specifically, it exists merely for the purpose of a barrel of Star Wars laughs.
However, they didn't want to permanently write themselves into a corner they couldn't get out of. Hence the evil-eyed Le Chuck and Elaine.
That's a common misconception that while developing MI2 they had something planned for MI3 in mind. That's the point. They didn't. Even Ron didn't, he said somewhere himself he really never thought about MI3 until after MI2 was released (and even then it were just some vague ideas and stuff). And the ending in MI2 with red eyes/Elaine was put there just in case they decide to make a sequel, but they didn't plan it as a trilogy beforehand.
He didn't plan out what would be in the third game, but he did mention that he did expect to do a third game in which he would "explain everything that was going on [in the ending]." (14:14 of this). Not that this suggests that he had any sort of big idea as to what would happen (I'm not saying that because I know it's not the case). I just thought I'd point it our that he did plan on making a third game and coming up with some explanation and conclusion.
I still say that Lechuck knew what he was doing and that it was a curse on Guybrush, how could there have been an MI 3 which we all know Ron had in mind if it was just a kids daydream.
I don't see how it could be any other way. LeChucks eyes glowing and then Elaine saying she hoped Guybrush wasn't put under a voodoo curse at the end. It seems obvious. LeChuck tricked Guybrush and placed a curse on him. His parents and the park were a illusion. That might be why LeChuck had the skeletons of Guybrushes parents in the caverns of Big Whoop. He planned this voodoo curse all along and something from the skeletons was needed to make the curse work.
The real question is how did Guybrush get out of it. I can imagine LeChuck making his parents talk little Guybrush on to deadly rides. Like the log ride down a waterfall. The roller coaster that's 'under repair'. Road warrior bumper cars!
Another big question is how Guybrush ended up in a bumper car in the ocean in Curse of monkey island if the amusement park was a illusion.
I'd love to see a side episode from TellTale to explain what happened between 2 & 3
And more than that, the idea that it's a curse just doesn't give the ending the proper significance. The problem with "it was all a dream" stories in TV and movies isn't the IDEA of something being false within the world of the fictional body of work. The main issue is that the "dream" is used to "undo" an event, like a character's death. A shocking event that rends the status quo into shreds. The problem is that to take such an event and to render it null and void takes that event's POWER away, they died and we cared for nothing. In the SAME way, the explanation in Curse robs our revelation at the end of LeChuck's Revenge null and void, when it was begging to be a far more important and powerful effect on the nature of the next game.
To say there is even more to it than meets the eye is interesting, for example Big Woop being the "Voodoo Crossroads" into the Monkey Island universe, where everything is a pirate fantasy, THAT is intriguing and interesting.
To say that it's just a trick, and that the end of the last game didn't matter, actually blunders RIGHT INTO the problems that make "it was all just a dream" endings so frustrating when it is used in other media.
*I just wrote a massive post on this, clicked submit, and it all disappeared. AAARGH! Apologies if this post appears more than once*
I agree 100%. And, what makes it more wonderful is that I think the "just kids at the themepark" theory is supported from the very beginning. I've only really started thinking about it today, but:
How does Monkey Island start? "My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I want to be a pirate!"
As in "I'm not Bobby from Ohio, my name's Captain McZap and I want to be an astronaut!" (when I grow up / for the purposes of play). Ron Gilbert has stated that the idea that the player and character don't know what being a pirate entails is central to the game. A kid will say "Well, I know that a pirate's supposed to have a ship, and get into swordfights, and drink grog, but apart from that..."
Re. Voodoo Nexus: voodoo = the power of imagination/storytelling, which holds the entire world together. Big Whoop is the one thing that can break the spell. What happens when the pirates find the treasure? The game ends, and the kids go off and pretend to be Indiana Jones instead
Factor in the following:
*Anachronisms such as Stan's vending machine (and the very notion of a used ship salesman!) appear from the very start.
*The cracks about Guybrush being "a little short for a pirate".
*The cracks about Guybrush's name ("Stop it, you guys! It's a great pirate name! Mooooooom, they're making fun of me!")
*The playground insults during swordfighting.
...and you end up at Guybrush (Guy? We'll never know his real name) and Chuckie at the theme park.
I'd never really given the ending much thought at the time, as I was about 9 or 10 - a little boy playing a game in which he's a little boy playing pirates, an idea which I really like. It's metafictional, quite a literary idea, and not something you're likely to find in today's games. Now I come to think of it all properly, though, it's mindblowing: like I just figured out The Usual Suspects 20 years later, or something!
Comments
Well, I guess that Luke and Leia both wanted to have sex at one point too.
I just see Ron Gilbert as a 'gaming Lucas' in this matter - he creates stuff on the move.
Besides that, saying Ron Gilbert is like the George Lucas of gaming isn't really a positive comparison, since though Lucas had a wonderful imagination in creating Star Wars, he is however terrible at implementing it directly. Most people say Empire and Jedi are the best movies, and that can be largely attributed to the fact that Lucas wasn't the director for either of them.
Well, I'm pretty sure, at least, the Luke wanted to have sex with her when he saw her in that hologram in SW4
Yeah, if you take comparisons too literally.
But really, both Ron and Lucas have good imagination and understanding of what they're doing, both wouldn't have done a timeless classic without the help of others (in case of Ron, it's Dave's and Tim's collaboration which actually turned Monkey Island into Monkey Island we know), and both would make not very good attempts in their respecitve fields if they would decide to be the sole 'creator' which everyone should listen to. The only difference is that Ron is smart enough not to (I'm sure while creating DeathSpank he listened to other people), and if he ever would decide to go '**** it, I'm making MY OWN Monkey Island game (Monkey Island 3?)', then it wouldn't be good. Oh, and both create stuff on the fly. So really, I think of it more as of a realistic comparison than a negative one.
PS. And RotJ is not a really good movie
I just thought I should mention this it's up to whom ever reads this what it mean.
A really wild party?
Thing is, no matter what Monkey Island game we're talking about, Elaine does seem to have this belief that she has to "babysit" Guybrush. Even when they're together, very rarely does Elaine talk to him as if they're on the same level.
Admittedly a pretty bizarre foundation for a relationship, but Guybrush seems to go for that kind of thing, so...
Whatever floats your boat, eh?
I think a few of us have memories of assorted ship debates from assorted media, and the argument of "younger sibling" is usually used to express purely platonic relationships. But Guybrush and Elaine have never been platonic. Even so, Elaine does treat Guybrush much as one would expect an older sister to treat a kid brother. We also have a few reasons to believe that Elaine is a few years older than Guybrush. Just wondering, maybe we aren't supposed to be taking Ron Gilbert so literally?
Edit to Add: De Ja Vu? I find myself suddenly reminded of a big debate from the fandom of Avatar: The Last Airbender. In the second season finale, Katara holds a nearly-dead Aang in an obvious parody of La Pieta. Ship debates went nuts, as some people took this as Katara being Aang's surrogate mother and not a romantic interest. (Completely missing the religious/symbological point of the scene, of course.) It is true to a point that she is very motherly toward Aang, but taken in context, she's very motherly toward everyone, to the point that the characters spend an entire episode making fun of her for it.
lots of cartoons and fictinal works with comedic styles take this angle in romance and marrage. Like Simpsons and Kim Possble
Like, anyone ever consider maybe that Guybrush might be a bumbling teenager in high school instead of a young boy as portrayed in MI2? And LeChuck might be in college as a freshman or sophomore. Considering his personality, he might be a quarterback for the college football team. A real stud and jock sort. Elaine's the redhead to die for and the leader of some planning committee or another that has a some noticeable on the lives of the students on campus. Something attractive to LeChuck.
Guybrush and LeChuck have never really been terribly abrasive until Elaine came over to babysit - or "escort" - Guybrush. Why? Despite being a generally well-behaved boy, he does have a tendency to be clumsy, and he does have a talent for petty thievery. Elaine's supposed to make sure he doesn't get into any trouble, or hurt or kill himself.
But she's kind of... impressed... by his bumbling self and his boyish good looks. (And he does get good grades, too, so he's more absent-minded than stupid.) So she comes to be tantalised by Guybrush, and infatuated. This, of course, irritates LeChuck and makes him want to kill Guybrush.
The fact that Elaine showed up at end of the game, and wondered if Guybrush was in trouble/cursed, is enough proof for me. As for why Guybrush apparently spent the time between MI2 and CMI in an actual, tangible Carnival of the Damned... er, I don't really know. Your Mind Makes It Real?
Booty Island (whith the costume shop) and Big Whoop entrance can be superposed:
I think that if you only play SoMI and MI2, the child's mind is the most likely theory.
In an interview, Ron Gilbert said that he would love to make an other MI and share his secret with the world. I would love that too
In my dreams, Telltales would announce the development of MI3 Prime - The Revelation, the Ron Gilbert non cannon version. I wouldn't mind if it's an old SCUMM based point and click adventure game if it can lower the development costs (actually, I would even prefer
It could start right after the end scene of MI2, Guybrush suddenly runs away, parents and Chucky stands puzzled, finally Chucky decides to go after him. Guybrush enters an attraction with his E-ticket (Chucky doesn't have one). Then, progressive transition back to the dream realm: For example Guybrush climbs a ladder and emerge from the hole where Elaine is waiting, but the screen is "half dream, half real". Guybrush doubts. Elaine manage to convince him that he was cursed by LeChuck, take his hands, Guybrush closes his eyes, and when he opens them again, there is no confusion => Back to a pirate adventure. During the game, more and more anachronisms, some of them makes Guybrush very uncomfortable. In the end, the world become very unstable, sometimes, Guybrush go back in the theme park... In reality, Elaine could be a girlfriend, or a even an action figure/doll (shock! in porcelain! shock! shock! That could explain something, if porcelain reminds him that he is in a dream...) that Guybrush forgot in the end of MI2...
Obviously, this can't be what Ron Gilbert had in mind, his secret is still secret, unfortunately...
Actually, that's pretty much what CoMI developers should've done. The explanation made it worse, not better.
Ron's MI3 doesn't exist and sadly probably never will. Maybe he just wanted to fool us all (that's also likely). If Ron's MI3 was never even going to have an explanation for MI2's ending it would be fine too. At least we would know that Ron's secret of MI is actually that there is no secret
Am I the only one who thinks that the similarities between the to backgrounds can possibly be attributed to laziness?
I never noticed any more anachronisms in the costume shop than any other location in the two games.
It's definitely done on purpose, but I'm not sure why anyone thinks it proves anything. The theme park sequence has things that Guybrush encounters throughout the game. If he's really just a kid, then it's what inspired the idea of those things, but if he's really under a spell, then it's just stuff LeChuck put together to confuse him and blur the lines between reality and fantasy.
EDIT: Note later in the games it's called "The Carnival of the (yeah)"
It's not unlikely it's meant to mislead us.
That's a common misconception that while developing MI2 they had something planned for MI3 in mind. That's the point. They didn't. Even Ron didn't, he said somewhere himself he really never thought about MI3 until after MI2 was released (and even then it were just some vague ideas and stuff). And the ending in MI2 with red eyes/Elaine was put there just in case they decide to make a sequel, but they didn't plan it as a trilogy beforehand.
Also, if the "boy in an amusement park" theory is true, Ron wouldn't have dismissed it, which he has. Yeah, he might have lied, but I'd rather not think of him as a liar. Besides, suggesting he is one is also rather disrespectfut towards him.
Didn't the MI2:SE commentary reveal that it was mostly 'just for fun'? (by 'for fun' I mean 'for laughs', and by 'for laughs' I mean 'for people to laugh'
Okay, "just for fun" was not the correct choice of words. Obviously, they wanted the ending to confuse us (and amuse them). What I'm thinking, though, is that the whole idea of the universe, in this case the "secret", is just an overlay that the stories can be built around. Hence why Ron said that it's still possible to fit his story (that he wanted to be MI3 which he had in mind before CMI, but only after MI2 was released) into the series without discarding CMI.
So, since we have no idea what the secret was supposed to be, despite getting a lot of clues within both games, the way it is revealed was probably not set in stone, and the games needed to follow a certain set of rules so that it wouldn't crash with the "secret".
And the reason I think the "child in a an amusement park" doesn't work is because they've already stated that Big Whoop is exactly what the name implies. Completely irrelevant to the full picture. Considering Big Whoop is the name of the amusement park, it would be a pretty big deal if that was the secret.
So, by saying Big Whoop was never intended to be important, they're basically denying that the ending is important at all and only meant to confuse us. Which leads me to believe that a) Ron's MI3 would explain the ending very briefly then just continuing with the story or b) Ron's MI3 would just call it a dream that happened after Guybrush falls into the tunnels.
I think you have it slightly backwards.
I think there's no question that the ending was "just for fun". Specifically, it exists merely for the purpose of a barrel of Star Wars laughs.
However, they didn't want to permanently write themselves into a corner they couldn't get out of. Hence the evil-eyed Le Chuck and Elaine.
Read my next post, and you will see what I meant.
He didn't plan out what would be in the third game, but he did mention that he did expect to do a third game in which he would "explain everything that was going on [in the ending]." (14:14 of this). Not that this suggests that he had any sort of big idea as to what would happen (I'm not saying that because I know it's not the case). I just thought I'd point it our that he did plan on making a third game and coming up with some explanation and conclusion.
The real question is how did Guybrush get out of it. I can imagine LeChuck making his parents talk little Guybrush on to deadly rides. Like the log ride down a waterfall. The roller coaster that's 'under repair'. Road warrior bumper cars!
Another big question is how Guybrush ended up in a bumper car in the ocean in Curse of monkey island if the amusement park was a illusion.
I'd love to see a side episode from TellTale to explain what happened between 2 & 3
Also what was with the card with the E on it ??
That was actually a reference to Disney World.
*I just wrote a massive post on this, clicked submit, and it all disappeared. AAARGH! Apologies if this post appears more than once*
I agree 100%. And, what makes it more wonderful is that I think the "just kids at the themepark" theory is supported from the very beginning. I've only really started thinking about it today, but:
How does Monkey Island start? "My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I want to be a pirate!"
As in "I'm not Bobby from Ohio, my name's Captain McZap and I want to be an astronaut!" (when I grow up / for the purposes of play). Ron Gilbert has stated that the idea that the player and character don't know what being a pirate entails is central to the game. A kid will say "Well, I know that a pirate's supposed to have a ship, and get into swordfights, and drink grog, but apart from that..."
Re. Voodoo Nexus: voodoo = the power of imagination/storytelling, which holds the entire world together. Big Whoop is the one thing that can break the spell. What happens when the pirates find the treasure? The game ends, and the kids go off and pretend to be Indiana Jones instead
Factor in the following:
*Anachronisms such as Stan's vending machine (and the very notion of a used ship salesman!) appear from the very start.
*The cracks about Guybrush being "a little short for a pirate".
*The cracks about Guybrush's name ("Stop it, you guys! It's a great pirate name! Mooooooom, they're making fun of me!")
*The playground insults during swordfighting.
...and you end up at Guybrush (Guy? We'll never know his real name) and Chuckie at the theme park.
I'd never really given the ending much thought at the time, as I was about 9 or 10 - a little boy playing a game in which he's a little boy playing pirates, an idea which I really like. It's metafictional, quite a literary idea, and not something you're likely to find in today's games. Now I come to think of it all properly, though, it's mindblowing: like I just figured out The Usual Suspects 20 years later, or something!