So do you think New Frontier is a step up from season 2
I personally really enjoyed the first couple episodes. I think the writing definitely improved over season 2. The new characters are far more likeable than the new characters in season 2 were. Also think Clementine works better as a non playable character than she does as a playable character.
If there is one complaint I have it is just the first couple episodes seemed a little short (especially the first one). However the main reason I think season 1 episodes seemed longer was just because it had so many puzzles.
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I think so! I'm really loving the story and characters so far. Granted I loved season 2.
Yes and no. There are several improvements and several fallbacks that have happened when comparing the two.
There've been leaps in graphics, animations, sounds, lighting and others.
But there's just as many holes and problems in the writing as there are in Season 2, while the characters are definitely more likeable than the ones we met in Season 2, that's mostly because they greeted us with good intentions rather than the unfriendly welcome we got from basically everyone in Season 2. As far as actual likeability through characterisation, in my eyes there's very little of that outside of Javier's relations with his own family, Kate and Gabe. Also misleading dialogue has been a problem that could have easily been avoided. And then there's the episode lengths which can be seen as borderline absurd to some.
I mean, I am enjoying it personally, but I enjoyed Season 2 all the same. I'm not sure if these two episodes are exactly enough to champion my initial attitudes to the first two episodes of Season 2, I'm still deciding that.
What do you feel about Clementine's role compared to that in season 2. Do you think she is better suited to being a non playable character and her being a playable character in season 2 hurt the believability of the group?
I do think that, for a time, she could have been best suited as a non-playable character. But right now, after she was made playable in Season 2, I think the whole thing just became more convoluted than necessary. Basically, I said after Season 1 was concluded that if we were going to have Clementine as a protagonist in Season 2, TellTale had to keep Clementine as the protagonist in every future addition. Mainly, because it would be disorienting if we jumped from main character to main character between seasons and also because if we spent an entire game, carefully constructing and moulding the attitudes and responses which we think Clementine should make, then it would be impossible for TellTale to do that specific personality that was made by each individual player any justice if they swapped her out of the main characters seat.
And we can see that now in Season 3 there are multiple players dissatisfied and confused as to why Clementine seems so distant, bloodthirsty and unremorseful - acting in complete contrast to where they left off from her place in Season 2. Some players went through two games and two years without Clementine ever having to kill a human being, yet in Season 3 she actively calls for the assault and killing of people. Some players went out of there way to greet everyone they met with an optimistic outlook and an open heart, even those who were obviously up to no good like Carver. Yet in this season, she acts with distrust to virtually everyone she meets.
Now I'm not against this switch in personality between Season 2 and Season 3 Clem, especially since now that Clementine is a NPC she can get a lot more character development than in Season 2. But there needs to be a facilitating reason for it. If people made decisions to the point where this Clementine and the one that they left Season 2 on don't even sound like the same person, then that's a massive writing problem that has to be addressed. I'm sure this will get explained as we find out exactly what her relationship with The New Frontier entails, but as it stands this transition of personality makes me wish Clementine stayed as a main character rather than Javier.
I don't think Clementine's playability really hurt the believability of the group and people we encountered, their believability was just more hurt by them being deliberately antagonistic to us the player and not having much characterisation as a result of poor writing and lack of screentime. The inclusion of Kenny also didn't help, as he stole the spotlight from everyone else and gave people little reason to invest so much about Season 2's original characters in the first place.
It's an improvement in some areas (graphics, more hubs), a downgrade in others (writing doesn't feel as focused or as evenly paced, shorter episodes). Right now, it's too early to really say anything in my opinion. But right now, as it stands, I found Ties That Bind Part 1 better than All That Remains, but A House Divided better than Ties That Bind Part 2.
So far I think it is better than season 2
This is one reason why I think having dialogue choices hurts a series over the long haul. Though it can seem constrictive, having one story with no plot or character development variations helps the story seem a lot more fluid over the course of several different iterations.
Of course if they did that they would need to allow the player to be involved in some other way
It's a step down.
Very questionable writing here than Season 2's.
Yeah, the series was kind of written to a corner with its multiple endings and made to face another corner with the handing of the protagonist to a completely new one.
Id say a step down.
Its already doing alot of things that was a problem in season 2, characters die, no one cares. Why should I care if a character dies if no one else does? So far the game feels alot more focused on action than character development, plus Clem's poor excuse of flashbacks and choices effecting her and her weak excuse to even be involved in the story, it feels like the game would have been better if New Frontier had no ties to season 1 and 2 at all. Add the two episode premier because episode 1 was "too big" just for both combined to be just over 2 hours doesnt help with its length.
Cant really give a final verdict until the season ends, but so far Telltale really needs to work on; character development and less action, make Clem feel like she has a real purpose to the story other than just being there so people by the game, not kill every character just because you can(seriously in season 1 I cant think of one character that was just killed off without giving them some kind of story, even Mark in Ep 2 of S1, even though he died at the end we learned alot about him and we cared about him, in this I dont see a reason to care, like Francine, we talk to her once, WHOOPS now shes dead) and to make the episodes longer than an hour.
Honestly while not liking Season 2, I'll be the first here to say the first episodes of Season 2 kick seven shades of shit out of the first two of ANF. Maybe ANF will pull a reverse S2 and the next three episodes will be respective masterpieces or it can show no improvement. ANF just has better graphics.
Really? Because I think the writing is actually more focused in a way that season2 wished it could have had. NF knows what it wants to do...Season 2 was a wreck where storylines got stripped and new ones shoehorned in for Kenny...so I think they are doing a great job.
See this is the players fault as Telltale did say that it was going to be through the flashbacks we get filled in on what has changed Clementine through the 2 year skip. I do feel however that they needed more time for those flashbacks and wonder if it might not have served them better to make Michonne an actual Clementine DLC that dealt with that before ANF then she could be a very knowable character and probably not need to be playable except at key points.
To be fair, I think Javi's reaction to Mariana's death (at least if you stay behind with Clementine) is probably the most human reaction we've seen to a death since the first season. He can still hold grief about that right up to the end of the episode.
I can forgive Kate considering she got shot and probably doesn't even have the energy to express any reaction, but Gabe's reaction annoys me a ton. He has one temper tantrum (and makes it more about himself than about his grief for Mariana) then seemingly forgets about the person he spent his entire life with the next day.
Huge step up. Playing as an adult again is great and so far the game actually has more likeable characters than season 2.
Seems like the reactions are about half and half.
I'll just respond to the feelings that some of the characters die too quickly without us being able to get attached to them. While that is true that is still kind of the nature of The Walking Dead universe.
In anycase I think the game did a good job of letting us care about Mariana before she was killed. She has pretty much been the only major character killed off so far in my playthrough so nothing to bad in that regard.
I do feel like I care about Javier's family though which was the main purpose of the story and hope they don't all die by the end. I'm sure either Kate or Gabe will though.
It'd take some sort of twisted miracle to make the season finale anywhere near as inept as Season 2's was.
But the premiere is about as poorly designed and uninteresting as has ever been put to a Telltale game's premiere launch I have ever witnessed...
Thanks for the jinx. I also can't wait for the 45 minute Season Finale.
So far I enjoyed season 2 much more. I liked the choices you can make and dialogue in 2. I do like some NF characters though but don't think it is a step up.
Less plot holes yet the plot isn't any better in my opinion.
We've got the hubs we've been asking for but we have less character interactions.
Episodes are action packed and interesting in my opinion but now shorter than ever.
One decision has a 5 minute impact but no other decisions from the past Seasons seem to have carried over! That's worse than Season Two in my opinion.
Characters models look absolutely fabulous but I still liked the old comic style a tad more.
Great characters that show allot of potential.... killed off anyway with a lack of development but this isn't any different from the previous two Seasons, let's be honest, although Season One did it best.
Wonder if theyre gonna make another protagonist if they make season 4, or keep Clem or Javier, I hope they dont make yet another switch to a new character, my Dream is a game 2-3 years after A New Frontier, with Clem as the playable character, where we have to protect AJ or the likes, I think it could be different enough to season 1, since he would still be like 5, and Clem would be 15 or 16
It's a step up for sure imo.
depends on what you mean by step up
as a sequel season 2 is better (even with how shitty it can get) but as a game by itself the new frontier is a step up 100%
Something about S3 just feels kind of like...sappy soap opera drama? I don't know, I think it mostly has to do with the love triangle that Telltale are setting up with Javier, Kate, and David.
I'm also not sure why Clementine is in this story because her role could have been anyone and the story wouldn't change.
S3 kind of feels a bit disjointed and "tired" in a way so far...like Telltale have lost interest and it's running out of steam or something.
In some places, it's a step up-- visual fidelity, cinematography, scope of the world/environment, stuff like that.
In other places, it's more or less remained on the same step-- still lacking in hubs and characterization, albeit I'm more attached to the S3 group as of episode 2 than I was for the cabin group of as episode 2.
And in others, it has tumbled back down the stairs-- for me, length and the choice impacts from the first two seasons so far.
I know we all have our own different reasons for why we like-- or don't like-- S3 thus far, but for me, length is the biggest offender so far. The flashbacks... well, I'm still pissed, but they happened. Unlike length, this isn't something that can really be fixed, unless Telltale decides to retcon the flashbacks and play them off like they were bad dreams or something (normally, I'd call BS if someone tried to do this. But for the flashbacks, I'd make an exception). So all you can really do regarding the flashbacks is try to get over it, and look forward.
One other thing that bugs me is the lack of new music. Not that reusing tracks is bad, but when you're repeating the same handful of tracks over and over, in a single episode nonetheless, it starts to become a bit too noticeable. Then again, the average player probably wouldn't care, unlike the addicted nut that I am. So this one's probably more of a personal complaint than anything.
So overall, I'd say that on the technical side of things, it's definitely a step-up. But it has yet to step up completely from S2 in most other aspects. But it's only 2 episodes in, and given the length and how intent they are on calling it a two-parter, you might as well say it's just one episode in. If they stay on track, and work towards improving the episode lengths and stuff, I think it'll manage to improve upon, if not surpass S2 by the end of the season.
It's way too early to tell if S3 is a step up from S2 story-wise as we're only 2 episodes in but what we can tell noticeably improved from S2 to S3 though are the graphics, bugs, lighting, audio, etc. However, I will say that to me season 2 is a masterpiece of story telling along with season 1. I personally think that season 3 can muster up the strength to be just as great as the first 2 and perhaps even better if they decide to take it in a refreshing direction.
No. Just fucking no.
Completely agree
They didn't write themselves into a corner with those endings. it would be quite easy to write three or four different beginnings to season 3, even if they all wrapped up by the end of the episode. They just didn't want to. They wanted us to pick the Clem alone ending because it was their preferred and cannon ending, so in the end they went with that.
While, I am definitely enjoying A New Frontier more than Season 2 so far, I can agree that while there are something that A New Frontier does better than Season 2 other areas are a bit lacking.
The plot is still fast paced if not more so than Season 2, not helped by the fact that these first two episodes' runtime is over one hour each. Unless it is just a sort of premiere thing, like a set-up for the rest of the Season, this fast-pace narrative is a flaw. Granted, I didn't felt it was short when I played it. Even on Episode 1, I thought it didn't ended too quickly.
The characters, while more likable than Season 2 cast, seems to lack moments where we can talk to them like we did in Season 1. We can't ask simple questions like we did in Season 1. But then again, I don't know whatever the developer's decision to remove these moment is a double-edged sword, because while hubs and questions are good, the pacing of the episode can suffer from it if it isn't done well. I personally want moments to take a breath and having some downtime.
On that note, I feel that there is a stronger direction this time. I feel the plot feels more focused because Javier and his family as well as The New Frontier have a better plot driving force and motivation than Clementine and the Cabin Group in Season 2. Although the first three episodes of Season 2 did have a driving force and focus, due to Carver and his group, but after he was killed and his community ruined, it just felt like the story lost its direction and it was aimless.
I feel that having Clementine in a supporting role is a good decision since I feel she serves the plot best as a NPC and her secrets and experiences with the New Frontier is a really intriguing plot point.
So yeah, while A New Frontier definitely have room for improvement, I still enjoyed it quite a lot. I love playing as Javier and developing his character.
The length of episodes definitely feels like there will barely be any development at all, there is too much action, and too little character development, we are 2 episodes in, and already like 3 people have died, that we barely knew anything about (depending on your choice at the end of episode 2 of course)
I definitely hope that the fact that Episode 1 was split into 2 means that future episodes will be longer, there is barely any time for characterisation, as most of the episodes have been action so far, and no hubs where we can talk to people or do small sidequests such as fixing the swing in season 1.
Also, I feel like part of the reason why this group is more memorable, is the fact that, didn't the cabin group only show up in episode 2? plus the fact that they locked you up because you were bitten by a dog (to be fair, they could not know but hey)
Step up in some aspects, step down in others. Overall though, I have a preference for New Frontier, the story is much more focused and the characters got me more invested so far.
I remember being the first person to comment on the plethora of action segments the trailer showed off and was immediately alarmed at how little we were being shown of any characters or their overarching plight.
Boom! Truck tips over and now you and Clem are gunning hordes of walkers down... Now, there's gas cans and some dick doing Naruto jutsu shit. Boom! Explosions! Michael Bay! Guns! Bam!
Definitely doesnt seem to fit very well with the overall world I feel, I have always seen The Walking Dead as a semi low on action kind of world, if you meet other survivors, or you get caught in a herd, sure youre gonna have trouble, but there is also a ton of downtime, where you can talk and collect supplies, with no threat whatsoever, which season 1 did really well, season 2 did ok, and season 3 has barely done at all
Okay, let me rephrase what I meant. I think the story of Season 3 is more focused, you have a much clearer idea of what the story is and what direction the writers are going with it. However, I felt the writing of an individual episode felt more focused in Season 2 compared to Season 3. Episodes like All That Remains and A House Divided felt very evenly paced and a lot of attention was given to the characters, using the total episode length wisely and never letting a minute feel wasted. As a result, it made those episodes feel like they had a clear beginning and a clear end, the writers of those episodes (in both cases, Nick Breckon, but also Andrew Grant for Episode 1) got across what they wanted to get across. Meanwhile, an episode like Amid the Ruins I felt didn't really have that sense of focus, there was too much going on, sudden shifts in tone or in the episode's pacing, and too many ideas the writers were trying to get across that it felt like a huge mess. But in ATR and AHD, it came across fairly clearly. I'm not saying Season 3 doesn't have that type of focus, but not on the same level as Season 2, part of it is probably due to the shorter episode length.
Based on the first two episodes, I'm finding it a step down, and I'm someone that was fairly disappointed by S2. Other than the technical stuff and a stronger plot, I feel S3 is cranking up the mistakes of S2 even further. Yeah, the supporting characters are generally more likeable than in S2, but they feel even less like characters because less time than ever is devoted to developing them at all outside of one or two tropes. The pacing and emphasis on action is definitely out of whack, which may be due to the length, but as is just feels like one or two shallow conversations stringing together repetitive shoot-outs or random zombie attacks.
We all know these games are about illusion of choice rather than actual choice, but they're not even trying to hold up the illusion anymore. After all the hype about starting points, S1 and S2 choices were meaningless in the first two eps, Clem's role (and don't get me wrong, I'm one of the hardcore Clem fans) feels extraneous and forced thus far, there's still no meaningful conversations with characters in the hubs, I'm not invested in anyone outside of the two protagonists and insert more whining here. Overall these two eps just feel like an underwhelming showing for two years of development on their flagship series.
S2, for all of its flaws and inconsistency still felt like there was some creative fire behind it, but this feels like an uninspired, streamlined project that's doing the bare minimum so far. I'd love to eat my words about the rest of the season because I think now that the set-up is out of the way, things can really go to the next level and a civil war in Richmond if done well could be AMAZING, but yeah, so far these seasons have really been diminishing returns for me. Enjoyable enough but falling further from the standard of S1 with each outing.
No. I think it's 5 million steps down from season 2.
No
For the most part. It's nothing too impressive so far though.