That first one was directed at you because you said "the way she normally is?" and no, Jane is not normally dark and brooding and frank.
Okay, it just sounded like you were being sarcastic with the way you were wording it. But anyways, it's not that big of a deal. I've been able to work my way around them and, in a way, work with them. It took a few years, but I'm able to overcome it ^_^
That first one was directed at you because you said "the way she normally is?" and no, Jane is not normally dark and brooding and frank.
Well see, that's an issue with her characterization: at least 60% of her overabundant screentime shows her as reclusive, blunt, and cynical, with a rare, if dry and somewhat bad, sense of humor. If that's not the "real" Jane, than I don't know what to tell you because the basis of her appeal revolves around being an edgy badass and "expert" survivalist. So you'll have to forgive me if I don't immediately speak in line with what you know; it's like saying pigheaded, temperamental, and unsophisticated isn't what Kenny is normally like despite the fact that that's the Kenny we've been the most exposed to.
Okay, it just sounded like you were being sarcastic with the way you were wording it. But anyways, it's not that big of a deal. I've been able to work my way around them and, in a way, work with them. It took a few years, but I'm able to overcome it ^_^
That first one was directed at you because you said "the way she normally is?" and no, Jane is not normally dark and brooding and frank.
… moreOkay, it just sounded like you were being sarcastic with the way you were wording it. But anyways, it's not that big of a deal. I've been able to work my way around them and, in a way, work with them. It took a few years, but I'm able to overcome it ^_^
I'm going to say, in terms of the people Clementine has been with - Kenny, why?
* In Season One, he showed almost no interest in her, t… morehe moments where he even interacted with her weren't exactly positive.
* In Season Two, Kenny's attempt at dictatorship is what eventually breaks the group apart - forcing Clementine to begin choosing between him and others.
* Despite Jane being portrayed as the worse guardian compared to Kenny (feels like a bias at TTG tbh), she was still the one who was there for Clementine and aided her more than Kenny did in two whole seasons, whilst she did present the possibility of abandoning Clementine, Kenny presented the possibility of actually hurting her due to his temper.
I still dislike the flashbacks for practically overriding Jane's character development, giving Kenny an odd death and not giving Edith an actual character.
This is my opinion of course, I understand why people pick Jane as the worst… [view original content]
Why would he show interest in Clem in season 1 he had his own child to take off and Clem already had a guardian
It's that lack of interest that makes their relationship in Season two feel unrealistic in my opinion and to counter your point, Lee was Clementine's guardian but he still, at least determinantly, cared for Duck and showed an interest in Kenny's family.
he didn't attempt to be a dictator wtf are you talking about
Have you played Season Two? He was domineering and practically disregarded the opinions of group members, even Clementine's, albeit determinantly. He excessively and unnecessarily harmed Arvo, against the majority of the groups' whims, he made the decision to go to Wellington and openly disregarded everyone else's opinions on the best location to go to, he caused arguments and tension to rise in the group due to his actions - which inevitably lead to Mike and determinantly Bonnie's betrayal of the group and to emphasize his attitude further, he becomes aggressive whenever outspoken.
No Jane forced Clementine to choose a decision Kenny never forced her to do anything
What decision was that? If Kenny didn't force Clementine to do anything, then how did Jane manage to do so? Considering this is a choice-based game, we aren't exactly forced into many things, it's almost entirely up to your choices.
and fuck no Kenny lost an eye for Clementine and got her to Wellington Kenny did way more for Clem than Jane did
He chose to take Clementine's punishment and that's one of the memorable and heroic things he did do for her, however, as for Wellington, he still knew nothing about it or that it even existed, he was going out on a limb and was risking Clementine and AJ's safety for a safe haven he couldn't prove was real.
As for what Jane did for Clementine, how about:
Rescuing her and Rebecca in the walker horde?
Teaching Clementine some survival techniques?
Saving her, Luke and determinantly Sarah at the trailer park?
Opening the Observation Deck for the whole group to have shelter?
Giving Clementine her nail file in the occasion that she may need it?
Saving Kenny, and possibly the rest of the group from Vitali?
Determinantly risking her own life to save Clementine from the frozen lake and running back to the lodge to her to warmth and safety?
Finding and giving Clementine some food?
Trusting Clementine's decisions despite the possible outcomes?
* Why would he show interest in Clem in season 1 he had his own child to take off and Clem already had a guardian
* he didn't attempt to be… more a dictator wtf are you talking about
* No Jane forced Clementine to choose a decision Kenny never forced her to do anything
* and fuck no Kenny lost an eye for Clementine and got her to Wellington Kenny did way more for Clem than Jane did
Because Jane set up the choice so that Clementine would kill or leave Kenny by pretending to kill AJ and I liked Jane alot before she started saying it was Kennys fault Sarita died and just generally being horrible for no reason
Why would he show interest in Clem in season 1 he had his own child to take off and Clem already had a guardian
It's that lack of in… moreterest that makes their relationship in Season two feel unrealistic in my opinion and to counter your point, Lee was Clementine's guardian but he still, at least determinantly, cared for Duck and showed an interest in Kenny's family.
he didn't attempt to be a dictator wtf are you talking about
Have you played Season Two? He was domineering and practically disregarded the opinions of group members, even Clementine's, albeit determinantly. He excessively and unnecessarily harmed Arvo, against the majority of the groups' whims, he made the decision to go to Wellington and openly disregarded everyone else's opinions on the best location to go to, he caused arguments and tension to rise in the group due to his actions - which inevitably lead to Mike and determinantly Bonnie's betrayal of the grou… [view original content]
Firstly, Jane denies Kenny's claim that she killed AJ but you are right that she misleads him into thinking as such but don't rule Kenny out of the equation when he doesn't even give Jane a chance for explanation and automatically decides to start a fight based on an assumption. Jane was in the wrong but as was Kenny, who worsened the situation.
Jane didn't formulate her plan for no reason. Remember at the beginning of episode 5? Jane was the only other character that believed Kenny still had some good in him, which is why she tried to convince Clementine to watch out for him, even showing sympathy towards him during the campfire scene but Kenny's actions became the cause of Jane's intentions - to prove he was too dangerous, after having excessively abuse Arvo whilst he was defenseless and becoming the dictator of the group by disregarding everyone else's opinions, both lead to tensions within the group that gave Mike and determinantly Bonnie motivation to betray the group. Jane's actions were idiotic but they weren't without cause.
Because Jane set up the choice so that Clementine would kill or leave Kenny by pretending to kill AJ and I liked Jane alot before she started saying it was Kennys fault Sarita died and just generally being horrible for no reason
If she didn't want to fight him she shouldn't off set it up. She was just trying to mislead Clem into to killing her closet friend. She constantly sets up Kenny to hate her by saying it was his fault Sarita died when it wasn't at all and saying how he apparently failed everyone and then right after this fakes killing AJ so no I don't blame Kenny for not giving her an explanation as she shouldn't have manipulated Kenny into hating her just so Clem would kill him once he retaliated.
Firstly, Jane denies Kenny's claim that she killed AJ but you are right that she misleads him into thinking as such but don't rule Kenny out… more of the equation when he doesn't even give Jane a chance for explanation and automatically decides to start a fight based on an assumption. Jane was in the wrong but as was Kenny, who worsened the situation.
Jane didn't formulate her plan for no reason. Remember at the beginning of episode 5? Jane was the only other character that believed Kenny still had some good in him, which is why she tried to convince Clementine to watch out for him, even showing sympathy towards him during the campfire scene but Kenny's actions became the cause of Jane's intentions - to prove he was too dangerous, after having excessively abuse Arvo whilst he was defenseless and becoming the dictator of the group by disregarding everyone else's opinions, both lead to tensions within the group that gave Mike and determinantly Bon… [view original content]
If everyone hates Jane so much then why do the statistics show that more people chose Jane than Kenny, but when it comes to Kenny everyone is praising him like he is some sort of God? Btw, Lenny is totally a God.
Jane was probably the worst but that's not really her fault she didn't want to be the gardian but at least she did teach Clem some things to help her survive
she always had Clementine's back when she needed it
Uh what about when she robbed Arvo and then left the group to be ambushed? What about when she left Clementine behind with a walker in a wrecked vehicle? What about when she committed suicide and left a child in charge of an infant?
I really dont understand how people can say things like this. Jane was selfish af.
Can people stop implying that Jane is the worst guardian, yes she has done stupid stuff and been selfish, but she always had Clementine's ba… moreck when she needed it. Jane taught Clem survival skills and teached her how to trust knowone. Jane is excactly like Clem in S3. Clem has learnt a lot from Jane.
That's because a few people had a try of the story creator. Others were just new to the series. Before season 3 came out, there was that image of Kenya, Jane and I think it was either a walker or clem, and the majority of people were either alone or with Jane at the end of season 2, while only around 20-29% of players were with Kenny.
Because they thought stopping Kenny for falling and putting out of his misery was more important than being his bro or Jane dying. Luckily, that's also what the rewind button is for.
If everyone hates Jane so much then why do the statistics show that more people chose Jane than Kenny, but when it comes to Kenny everyone is praising him like he is some sort of God? Btw, Lenny is totally a God.
Many people changed their endings after realising what Jane did. Those people were more neutral than anything else though. Also because the neutrals who got Jane's or the alone ending at first saw the Wellington ending and realised how much better it was over the other endings. Certainly the impression i got from people on various other forums that i read anyway
Javier.
Within four years, he's taught Gabe how to habitually whine, how to botch holding medical supplies, and how to stab corpses like … morea fucking psycho.
At least Kenny showed Clem what true evil lies in the heart of man... So that's something kind of tangible there.
Because evil people don't have any good in them at all and well im afraid regardless of your feelings towards Kenneth, he does have a kind heart despite his also nasty side to his character at times
My point is, either the S2 stats are wrong, or the S3 wrong. Personally I trust the S3 stats more since it's more recent and is continuously being updated.
I believe none is wrong. I'll just throw around some data you might be missing (most of it comes from the steam database) and give you my interpretation of it.
The Walking Dead Season 2 has in total 1.118k owners.
The Walking Dead: A New Frontier has in total 121k owners.
No Going Back had a constant of 18k players in the week of release and 4k players on the following week.
A New Frontier reached 8k players on the day of release, a number which quickly fell to below the 1k in 2 days.
After release, The Walking Dead Season 2 showed that 70% of those 18k players shot Kenny. Yet, considering the variable that shooting Kenny does not mean you go with Jane, only 35% of those 18k players got the Jane ending (10% without the family, 25% with the family).
After release, ANF showed that 50% of those 8k players are with Kenny, while 20% are with Jane.
A few months before ANF Telltale updated the S2 statistics which had been frozen since 2015. After the update on statistics, 50.9% of players shot Kenny.
A day before the release of A New Frontier, a news article was posted on this website showing the percentage of players that had gotten each ending:
"Alone" includes the Wellington ending.
Things to note:
The statistics of Season Two have a much, much bigger sample of players than ANF.
The statistics two weeks before the release of No Going Back are way more accurate about players' canon endings since those are way less prone to include replays.
There're two possible scenarios:
There are more people who got the Kenny ending who bought ANF than people who got the Jane/Wellington/Alone ending.
A lot of people changed their ending from Alone/Wellington/Jane to the Kenny ending after replaying, or simply forgot their original ending, used the story generator and chose to go with Kenny (Pewdiepie, for example, forgot he had ended up with Jane and went with the Wellington ending in the story generator).
Because evil people don't have any good in them at all and well im afraid regardless of your feelings towards Kenneth, he does have a kind heart despite his also nasty side to his character at times
Sure maybe the odd few but those truly evil don't have any good in them and i just think it's silly to call Kenny evil because he simply isn't compared to say someone like Hitler or Genghis Khan whom certainly didn't seem have an ounce of good in them. Even to their own loyal men. They just used them and most lived in fear of them i'm sure. Same thing with Negan.
evil people don't have any good in them at all
Well, I wouldn't say at all.
he does have a nasty side despite his also kind he… moreart to his character at times
Fixed. (Though admittedly, I may have gotten the adjectives and nouns mixed up)
Yeah, even when I started to dislike him back in October/whenever, I never thought he ever reached villain material; even when I placed him on my personal sympathy/ chart, he only ended up getting a listing under the Villains & Fallen section for the purpose of distinguishing the fact that he was getting pretty out of control in No Going Back. I mean I can definitely see why people would consider him one, but the irony is that for as bossy, volatile, and borderline unlikable as he got towards the end, he still somehow maintained some sense of cooperation, tolerance, and even guilt/remorse to keep him somewhat balanced. The fact of the matter is that getting AJ to safety was a unambiguously noble goal, one of that pretty much everyone seemed to agree with on some level.
Carver is definitely an example of what you mean, though. I know he meant to be somewhat understandable in his actions, but that kinda out the window early on since he constantly breathes smug psychopath and were never given any real backstory to explain how he may have changed over time, if at all and he just seems like he was a douchebag to begin with. The only evidence suggesting he was ever "good" is 1. the inference that he, Alvin, and maybe Carlos used to be friends and 2. the fact that Bonnie consistently vouches for him until he pretty admits he's a tyrant(and honestly, the fact she's a member of his inner circle at all gives that notion some credit by itself).
Sure maybe the odd few but those truly evil don't have any good in them and i just think it's silly to call Kenny evil because he simply isn… more't compared to say someone like Hitler or Genghis Khan whom certainly didn't seem have an ounce of good in them. Even to their own loyal men. They just used them and most lived in fear of them i'm sure. Same thing with Negan.
he only ended up getting a listing under the Villains & Fallen section for the purpose of distinguishing the fact that he was getting pretty out of control in No Going Back
I can see why people would put him in that category but even then to call him a villain is a stretch but as you said some people would see him like that because they feel someone who acts violent or is mean is considered a villain. But an evil person wouldn't do what Kenny was trying to do throughout the whole episode 5 with his goal to get Clem and AJ to safety. Hell there is someone i know, a friend of a friend who is a real asshole, one of these sarcastic ignorant types who was probably a school bully at one time it wouldn't surprise me, yet he is known for rescuing and taking in animals and doing charity work. Yep believe it or not, there are assholes in the world who have a different side to them at the same time
Yeah, even when I started to dislike him back in October/whenever, I never thought he ever reached villain material; even when I placed him … moreon my personal sympathy/ chart, he only ended up getting a listing under the Villains & Fallen section for the purpose of distinguishing the fact that he was getting pretty out of control in No Going Back. I mean I can definitely see why people would consider him one, but the irony is that for as bossy, volatile, and borderline unlikable as he got towards the end, he still somehow maintained some sense of cooperation, tolerance, and even guilt/remorse to keep him somewhat balanced. The fact of the matter is that getting AJ to safety was a unambiguously noble goal, one of that pretty much everyone seemed to agree with on some level.
Carver is definitely an example of what you mean, though. I know he meant to be somewhat understandable in his actions, but that kinda out the window early on since he c… [view original content]
Comments
Diana and Ed, because we never saw them.
And what about Sandra?
No, it's apparently yours.
Either Jane, Vernon, or the Stranger cause...do I need to explain?
I can't take you seriously with that avatar. LMAOO
I mean no offense sir!
None taken.
That first one was directed at you because you said "the way she normally is?" and no, Jane is not normally dark and brooding and frank.
Okay, it just sounded like you were being sarcastic with the way you were wording it. But anyways, it's not that big of a deal. I've been able to work my way around them and, in a way, work with them. It took a few years, but I'm able to overcome it ^_^
Well see, that's an issue with her characterization: at least 60% of her overabundant screentime shows her as reclusive, blunt, and cynical, with a rare, if dry and somewhat bad, sense of humor. If that's not the "real" Jane, than I don't know what to tell you because the basis of her appeal revolves around being an edgy badass and "expert" survivalist. So you'll have to forgive me if I don't immediately speak in line with what you know; it's like saying pigheaded, temperamental, and unsophisticated isn't what Kenny is normally like despite the fact that that's the Kenny we've been the most exposed to.
Glad to hear that!
It's that lack of interest that makes their relationship in Season two feel unrealistic in my opinion and to counter your point, Lee was Clementine's guardian but he still, at least determinantly, cared for Duck and showed an interest in Kenny's family.
Have you played Season Two? He was domineering and practically disregarded the opinions of group members, even Clementine's, albeit determinantly. He excessively and unnecessarily harmed Arvo, against the majority of the groups' whims, he made the decision to go to Wellington and openly disregarded everyone else's opinions on the best location to go to, he caused arguments and tension to rise in the group due to his actions - which inevitably lead to Mike and determinantly Bonnie's betrayal of the group and to emphasize his attitude further, he becomes aggressive whenever outspoken.
What decision was that? If Kenny didn't force Clementine to do anything, then how did Jane manage to do so? Considering this is a choice-based game, we aren't exactly forced into many things, it's almost entirely up to your choices.
He chose to take Clementine's punishment and that's one of the memorable and heroic things he did do for her, however, as for Wellington, he still knew nothing about it or that it even existed, he was going out on a limb and was risking Clementine and AJ's safety for a safe haven he couldn't prove was real.
As for what Jane did for Clementine, how about:
Because Jane set up the choice so that Clementine would kill or leave Kenny by pretending to kill AJ and I liked Jane alot before she started saying it was Kennys fault Sarita died and just generally being horrible for no reason
Firstly, Jane denies Kenny's claim that she killed AJ but you are right that she misleads him into thinking as such but don't rule Kenny out of the equation when he doesn't even give Jane a chance for explanation and automatically decides to start a fight based on an assumption. Jane was in the wrong but as was Kenny, who worsened the situation.
Jane didn't formulate her plan for no reason. Remember at the beginning of episode 5? Jane was the only other character that believed Kenny still had some good in him, which is why she tried to convince Clementine to watch out for him, even showing sympathy towards him during the campfire scene but Kenny's actions became the cause of Jane's intentions - to prove he was too dangerous, after having excessively abuse Arvo whilst he was defenseless and becoming the dictator of the group by disregarding everyone else's opinions, both lead to tensions within the group that gave Mike and determinantly Bonnie motivation to betray the group. Jane's actions were idiotic but they weren't without cause.
If she didn't want to fight him she shouldn't off set it up. She was just trying to mislead Clem into to killing her closet friend. She constantly sets up Kenny to hate her by saying it was his fault Sarita died when it wasn't at all and saying how he apparently failed everyone and then right after this fakes killing AJ so no I don't blame Kenny for not giving her an explanation as she shouldn't have manipulated Kenny into hating her just so Clem would kill him once he retaliated.
If everyone hates Jane so much then why do the statistics show that more people chose Jane than Kenny, but when it comes to Kenny everyone is praising him like he is some sort of God? Btw, Lenny is totally a God.
Jane was probably the worst but that's not really her fault she didn't want to be the gardian but at least she did teach Clem some things to help her survive
Uh what about when she robbed Arvo and then left the group to be ambushed? What about when she left Clementine behind with a walker in a wrecked vehicle? What about when she committed suicide and left a child in charge of an infant?
I really dont understand how people can say things like this. Jane was selfish af.
That's because a few people had a try of the story creator. Others were just new to the series. Before season 3 came out, there was that image of Kenya, Jane and I think it was either a walker or clem, and the majority of people were either alone or with Jane at the end of season 2, while only around 20-29% of players were with Kenny.
Because they thought stopping Kenny for falling and putting out of his misery was more important than being his bro or Jane dying. Luckily, that's also what the rewind button is for.
Javier.
Within four years, he's taught Gabe how to habitually whine, how to botch holding medical supplies, and how to stab corpses like a fucking psycho.
At least Kenny showed Clem what true evil lies in the heart of man... So that's something kind of tangible there.
Many people changed their endings after realising what Jane did. Those people were more neutral than anything else though. Also because the neutrals who got Jane's or the alone ending at first saw the Wellington ending and realised how much better it was over the other endings. Certainly the impression i got from people on various other forums that i read anyway
Evil is a bit strong to be fair but i expect that from you lol
I think it may be too weak.
What's worse than evil?
"Kennil?"
Because evil people don't have any good in them at all and well im afraid regardless of your feelings towards Kenneth, he does have a kind heart despite his also nasty side to his character at times
I believe none is wrong. I'll just throw around some data you might be missing (most of it comes from the steam database) and give you my interpretation of it.
The Walking Dead Season 2 has in total 1.118k owners.
The Walking Dead: A New Frontier has in total 121k owners.
No Going Back had a constant of 18k players in the week of release and 4k players on the following week.
A New Frontier reached 8k players on the day of release, a number which quickly fell to below the 1k in 2 days.
After release, The Walking Dead Season 2 showed that 70% of those 18k players shot Kenny. Yet, considering the variable that shooting Kenny does not mean you go with Jane, only 35% of those 18k players got the Jane ending (10% without the family, 25% with the family).
After release, ANF showed that 50% of those 8k players are with Kenny, while 20% are with Jane.
A few months before ANF Telltale updated the S2 statistics which had been frozen since 2015. After the update on statistics, 50.9% of players shot Kenny.
A day before the release of A New Frontier, a news article was posted on this website showing the percentage of players that had gotten each ending:
"Alone" includes the Wellington ending.
Things to note:
There're two possible scenarios:
There are more people who got the Kenny ending who bought ANF than people who got the Jane/Wellington/Alone ending.
A lot of people changed their ending from Alone/Wellington/Jane to the Kenny ending after replaying, or simply forgot their original ending, used the story generator and chose to go with Kenny (Pewdiepie, for example, forgot he had ended up with Jane and went with the Wellington ending in the story generator).
Maybe both.
Well, I wouldn't say at all.
Fixed.
(Though admittedly, I may have gotten the adjectives and nouns mixed up)
Sure maybe the odd few but those truly evil don't have any good in them and i just think it's silly to call Kenny evil because he simply isn't compared to say someone like Hitler or Genghis Khan whom certainly didn't seem have an ounce of good in them. Even to their own loyal men. They just used them and most lived in fear of them i'm sure. Same thing with Negan.
Yeah, even when I started to dislike him back in October/whenever, I never thought he ever reached villain material; even when I placed him on my personal sympathy/ chart, he only ended up getting a listing under the Villains & Fallen section for the purpose of distinguishing the fact that he was getting pretty out of control in No Going Back. I mean I can definitely see why people would consider him one, but the irony is that for as bossy, volatile, and borderline unlikable as he got towards the end, he still somehow maintained some sense of cooperation, tolerance, and even guilt/remorse to keep him somewhat balanced. The fact of the matter is that getting AJ to safety was a unambiguously noble goal, one of that pretty much everyone seemed to agree with on some level.
Carver is definitely an example of what you mean, though. I know he meant to be somewhat understandable in his actions, but that kinda out the window early on since he constantly breathes smug psychopath and were never given any real backstory to explain how he may have changed over time, if at all and he just seems like he was a douchebag to begin with. The only evidence suggesting he was ever "good" is 1. the inference that he, Alvin, and maybe Carlos used to be friends and 2. the fact that Bonnie consistently vouches for him until he pretty admits he's a tyrant(and honestly, the fact she's a member of his inner circle at all gives that notion some credit by itself).
I can see why people would put him in that category but even then to call him a villain is a stretch but as you said some people would see him like that because they feel someone who acts violent or is mean is considered a villain. But an evil person wouldn't do what Kenny was trying to do throughout the whole episode 5 with his goal to get Clem and AJ to safety. Hell there is someone i know, a friend of a friend who is a real asshole, one of these sarcastic ignorant types who was probably a school bully at one time it wouldn't surprise me, yet he is known for rescuing and taking in animals and doing charity work. Yep believe it or not, there are assholes in the world who have a different side to them at the same time