So LeChuck.....: Major Spoliers

135

Comments

  • edited August 2009
    Don't you think that, if Elaine knew Morgan personally, she would have reacted differently when Guybrush tells her about how he met her?
  • edited August 2009
    Mermaid wrote: »
    Don't you think that, if Elaine knew Morgan personally, she would have reacted differently when Guybrush tells her about how he met her?


    unless morgan's just her hunter name
  • edited August 2009
    unless morgan's just her hunter name

    True, Morgan obviously knows who Elaine is coz she is just known as Elaine, but Elaine wont know her name is Morgan because she took on the name Morgan LeFlay later.
  • edited August 2009
    Mermaid wrote: »
    Someone here mentioned before that LeChuck might come together with Morgan in the end, as an exchange for Elaine, maybe? Hmm.."LeChuck & LeFlay" - coincidence? What do you think?

    That's me ; ) I belive it would be fun. And it gives us two options:
    - LeChuck backs Zombie and makes Morgan his undead bride. If so, nothing wrong with Morgan died at some point and then brought back to life by Voodoo...
    - LeChuck stays human and makes Morgan his alive bride : )
    EDIT: and one more - a crazy one: Morgan turns zombie and LeChuck stays human.
  • edited August 2009
    The now human LeChuck is probably a good guy without any plans. I have a strong feeling the old LeChuck has possesed the 13 monkeys. Notice when Guyrbush finds human LeChuck at the cliff and screams "LeChuck!" that it's the monkey who reacts and runs away. It would also explain the badass angry monkey on the cover of Purcells painting. ;)
  • edited August 2009
    Qwazin wrote: »
    The now human LeChuck is probably a good guy without any plans. I have a strong feeling the old LeChuck has possesed the 13 monkeys. Notice when Guyrbush finds human LeChuck at the cliff and screams "LeChuck!" that it's the monkey who reacts and runs away. It would also explain the badass angry monkey on the cover of Purcells painting. ;)

    But Human LeChuck is definitely in on it. He was talking quietly to the monkey about something secret when Guybrush arrives. He acts all shifty when he turns round, too. Did anyone notice how, in the intro to episode 1, he smirked when he saw what was about to happen to Guybrush? Have another look.
  • edited August 2009
    Qwazin wrote: »
    The now human LeChuck is probably a good guy without any plans. I have a strong feeling the old LeChuck has possesed the 13 monkeys. Notice when Guyrbush finds human LeChuck at the cliff and screams "LeChuck!" that it's the monkey who reacts and runs away. It would also explain the badass angry monkey on the cover of Purcells painting. ;)
    Oh wow, that's... that's... brilliant thinking! I think you may well have nailed it there.
  • edited August 2009
    Pale Man wrote: »
    I have a feeling Lechuck is genuinely good and near the end of the series he'll "sacrifice" himself to save them, and somehow in the process absorb the pox again and be the evil Lechuck we've all killed countless times.

    Really? Me too. Except my thought is that
    Guybrush turns evil and Lechuck has to save him.
  • edited August 2009
    Okay, I can't believe I'm saying this about a gaming character, but I think Morgan is much more attractive than Elaine. Plus she seems much more appreciative of Guybrush's skills. I hope she doesn't die like a lot of people are speculating.

    Me too.
  • edited August 2009
    I'd also wish for Guybrush and Morgan getting a bit closer, they seem like a perfect couple.
    The one always brags about his awesome achievements, and the other actually admires them.
  • edited August 2009
    Guinea wrote: »
    I'd also wish for Guybrush and Morgan getting a bit closer, they seem like a perfect couple.
    The one always brags about his awesome achievements, and the other actually admires them.

    I agree. I hope TT (ok, Mark Darin and Dave Grossman) are bold enough to push the boat out even further child-friendliness-wise by having Guybrush cheat on Elaine with Morgan.

    He's clearly fed up with the way Elaine treats him. Not once did they kiss on Spinner Cay, they only hugged once and she loves wrapping him round her little finger, denying him any respect or freedom.

    I'd be fed up with that too and wouldn't pass a chance up with a potentially hot-under-the-sheets-yet-appreciative Morgan. :D
  • edited August 2009
    With Ron consulting the plot - it's some possible solution... They never meant to be together in his vision...
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    I agree. I hope TT (ok, Mark Darin and Dave Grossman) are bold enough to push the boat out even further child-friendliness-wise by having Guybrush cheat on Elaine with Morgan.

    He's clearly fed up with the way Elaine treats him. Not once did they kiss on Spinner Cay, they only hugged once and she loves wrapping him round her little finger, denying him any respect or freedom.

    I'd be fed up with that too and wouldn't pass a chance up with a potentially hot-under-the-sheets-yet-appreciative Morgan. :D

    Such a shame too. That pattern seemed to have finally been broken in the prologue of chapter 1, but then resumed in chapter 2. In her defense though, she has the pox, and I think that flower LeChuck gave Elaine may be the cause. Elaine seemed very displeased to be with LeChuck until he gave her that flower.

    Maby the flower had the pox and LeChuck gave it to her knowing full well that it would lead to her falling in love with him. That's why he hasn't tried to flirt with her, the work is being done for him. In the meantime he is controlling all the poxed pirates and monkeys to do his dirty work, such as obtaining the magical artifacts. That's why he sailed to the jerk bait islands. The monkey thing was all an excuse to go there. When Guybrush turned up, he altered his plans and had him collect the idols and then find the sponge.

    LeChuck is now probably working on the next phase of his plans with Elaine. LeChuck wants the sponge to obtain full power and become a pirate king. He is relying on others such as Morgan, indirectly that is, to get rid of Guybrush to remain in Elaine's good books till the pox completely takes control of her. He'll have it all, power, good looks, a beautiful woman, Guybush dead, and all the seven seas under his control. In short, LeChuck planned everything and is behind everything. End of my theory for now.
  • edited August 2009
    Novotnus wrote: »
    With Ron consulting the plot - it's some possible solution... They never meant to be together in his vision...

    That was my thought too but lost the thread and reply to back me up (saying his MI3 would have barely featured Elaine at all, if at all)
  • edited August 2009
    Yeah, I think LeChuck is still kind of a prick, actually. I mean, he's not his old self, but he's all passive-aggressive now which is almost worse. His taunts are just this side of polite but still definite taunts none of the less.

    I also like Elaine. To say she's mean to Guybrush, or doesn't respect him or trust him etc. etc. ... well, he did unleash a horrible pox on the Caribbean turning almost all who live there into raging, stupid undead. And he doesn't really seem to give a shat. Seriously, when the Voodoo Lady told him about it he was all, "Yeah, yeah, whatever, just want to find the wife." Let's be honest people, Guybrush isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer or the most responsible man on the ocean. And if I were Governor of ... the Caribbean (actually, where is Elaine in charge of?) I would have definitely chewed out my husband if he'd turned all of my constituents into raging, irrational, power-hungry zombies. New ones would have been ripped. But all Elaine did was talk about how they were going to fix everything. She was pretty understanding if you ask me.
  • edited August 2009
    (actually, where is Elaine in charge of?)

    In the end of Escape from Monkey Island,
    Elaine has given all governatorial previliges to her thought-dead-but-found-at-last grandpa Marley (a.k.a. Herman Toothrot), so they with Guybrush could have a life full of swashbuckling and less of office job.
    I do suppose TellTale went that way, meaning that Elaine right now is not in charge anywhere.

    EDIT: About Morgan-Elaine thing... one thing I wondered about in real life, actually... but for the sake of this post, having Guybrush as an example... at one point he fell in love with Elaine, and cares very much about her. So much that he really doesn't give a shit about crysis in the Caribbean, I would say. That is kind of admirable in a way, though in the same way dumb. That's not the point. The point is, why at some unknown moment in his life he CAN'T meet someone he would care about as much? It's not like love is a one-person-privelege (well, we know about divorces and weddings and re-weddings, heh, kinda proves the point), in my opinion friendship is a manifestation of love, and love is, basically, a maxed out to infinity friendship. Those people, beloved ones (and there's many of them), become part of one's self, and it is kind of a bit dumb to make CHOOSE between, well, different parts of yourself, because that is essentialy tearing you appart. Just my two pieces of eights.
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    He's clearly fed up with the way Elaine treats him.

    You know...while I can see Guybrush (or maybe just his ego) taking a shine to a woman who idolizes him for once, I don't see him as "fed up" with Elaine in the slightest. If anything, Ep. 2 has gone out of its way to point out that Guybrush still cares for her, and deeply--such as
    at the end, when he tells Winslow (IIRC) that they have to find La Esponja Grande "especially now," with a very pointed look at Elaine, who we've of course recently learned is infected with the pox too.

    All that being said, though, between the pox, Elaine seemingly growing closer to LeChuck, and Morgan's borderline fangirlishness, I'd still find it believable if Guybrush were to cheat on Elaine in a moment of weakness. I just think he'd regret it (and big time) shortly thereafter.
  • edited August 2009
    I've always liked the idea of a classic villain becoming a protagonist, if even just temporarily. I once read an early draft of Freddy vs. Jason where Jason sees Freddy as a bigger threat than his normal victims, and "works with" (for lack of a better term) said victims to kill Freddy. Ever since then, I've wanted to see that happen.

    LeChuck working with Guybrush is the next best thing, and so I hope that the only threat he poses is competing for Elaine. After the episodes wrap up, *then* he should go back to being the baddie. (unless TT has something better in mind, i.e. a way for LeChuck to remain harmless, and somebody new stepping into the villain role.)
  • edited August 2009
    Lena_P wrote: »
    Yeah, I think LeChuck is still kind of a prick, actually. I mean, he's not his old self, but he's all passive-aggressive now which is almost worse. His taunts are just this side of polite but still definite taunts none of the less.

    I also like Elaine. To say she's mean to Guybrush, or doesn't respect him or trust him etc. etc. ... well, he did unleash a horrible pox on the Caribbean turning almost all who live there into raging, stupid undead. And he doesn't really seem to give a shat. Seriously, when the Voodoo Lady told him about it he was all, "Yeah, yeah, whatever, just want to find the wife." Let's be honest people, Guybrush isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer or the most responsible man on the ocean. And if I were Governor of ... the Caribbean (actually, where is Elaine in charge of?) I would have definitely chewed out my husband if he'd turned all of my constituents into raging, irrational, power-hungry zombies. New ones would have been ripped. But all Elaine did was talk about how they were going to fix everything. She was pretty understanding if you ask me.

    But she was like that in Escape, and none of that was even Guybrush's fault!

    Elaine was governor of Melee, Booty and Plunder Islands, the main islands of the Tri-Island Area. But she gave that up at the end of Escape.
  • edited August 2009
    ShaggE wrote: »
    I've always liked the idea of a classic villain becoming a protagonist, if even just temporarily. I once read an early draft of Freddy vs. Jason where Jason sees Freddy as a bigger threat than his normal victims, and "works with" (for lack of a better term) said victims to kill Freddy. Ever since then, I've wanted to see that happen.

    LeChuck working with Guybrush is the next best thing, and so I hope that the only threat he poses is competing for Elaine. After the episodes wrap up, *then* he should go back to being the baddie. (unless TT has something better in mind, i.e. a way for LeChuck to remain harmless, and somebody new stepping into the villain role.)

    That would only provide an opportunity for continuity by Teltale. Besides, a MI game without a big, bad LeChuck? A novelty first time round, not with a completely different top villain 2nd time round. (let's just forget Ozzy in Escape for now)
  • edited August 2009
    Tyraa Rane wrote: »
    You know...while I can see Guybrush (or maybe just his ego) taking a shine to a woman who idolizes him for once, I don't see him as "fed up" with Elaine in the slightest. If anything, Ep. 2 has gone out of its way to point out that Guybrush still cares for her, and deeply--such as
    at the end, when he tells Winslow (IIRC) that they have to find La Esponja Grande "especially now," with a very pointed look at Elaine, who we've of course recently learned is infected with the pox too.

    All that being said, though, between the pox, Elaine seemingly growing closer to LeChuck, and Morgan's borderline fangirlishness, I'd still find it believable if Guybrush were to cheat on Elaine in a moment of weakness. I just think he'd regret it (and big time) shortly thereafter.

    No? I see your points, but there were three indications it was getting on his nerves:

    1) he wanted to say no a lot when she was trying to persuade him to work with LeChuck to get the turtle

    2) he decided to change Elaine's instructions when he told LeChuck his part in ending the blockade

    3) when Morgan turned Guybrush down in the final scene, he recalled, frustrated, how Elaine never lets him do any plundering or pillaging
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    That would only provide an opportunity for continuity by Teltale. Besides, a MI game without a big, bad LeChuck? A novelty first time round, not with a completely different top villain 2nd time round. (let's just forget Ozzy in Escape for now)

    Ah, but of course LeChuck should become evil again. I just think that a couple of MI adventures with a good LeChuck could be very interesting, and it'd provide material for a continued revival of the franchise beyond the confirmed episodes. Even the most tired novelty twists can become involving with a good writer behind it, and we have a whole team of good writers in TellTale. :D
  • edited August 2009
    I also agree that LeChuck is either evil and pretending, or through some catastrophe (probably caused by Guybrush) will become evil by the end of Tales.. (maybe Guybrush will turn him evil deliberately to get Elaine back??)

    I think Morgan's awesome, but even if Elaine dumps Guybrush I just don't see him being with anyone else... unless Elaine becomes the new villain or something. I reckon there would be more potential humour in Guybrush and Morgan sailing round together with undercurrents of tension... it will be like every sitcom ever made!
  • edited August 2009
    ShaggE wrote: »
    Ah, but of course LeChuck should become evil again. I just think that a couple of MI adventures with a good LeChuck could be very interesting, and it'd provide material for a continued revival of the franchise beyond the confirmed episodes. Even the most tired novelty twists can become involving with a good writer behind it, and we have a whole team of good writers in TellTale. :D

    The only writer creditted in the credits as a writer for Spinner Cay was Mark Darin (and while he may be very good, he isn't a whole team)
  • edited August 2009
    meander wrote: »
    I also agree that LeChuck is either evil and pretending, or through some catastrophe (probably caused by Guybrush) will become evil by the end of Tales.. (maybe Guybrush will turn him evil deliberately to get Elaine back??)

    I think Morgan's awesome, but even if Elaine dumps Guybrush I just don't see him being with anyone else... unless Elaine becomes the new villain or something. I reckon there would be more potential humour in Guybrush and Morgan sailing round together with undercurrents of tension... it will be like every sitcom ever made!

    That would frustrate players like me!

    Do it! Make out, yer chickens! Arrrrrrgghhh, damn ye!
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    No? I see your points, but there were three indications it was getting on his nerves:

    1) he wanted to say no a lot when she was trying to persuade him to work with LeChuck to get the turtle

    Considering how many times LeChuck's tried to maim/torture/kill him, I can't fault Guybrush for this one. :p Still (and this is just my personal interpretation here--clearly the scene can be taken multiple ways), I didn't read his refusals as frustration with Elaine...more just abject refusal to work with LeChuck.
    2) he decided to change Elaine's instructions when he told LeChuck his part in ending the blockade

    Again, I read this scene a bit differently, personally. I think Guybrush changed Elaine's instructions so that he could be the big hero of the day, rather than LeChuck. It's partly an ego thing and partly...well, whoever gets to be the hero is going to get the most attention from Elaine (or so Guybrush thinks--she didn't seem to much care either way), and given that Elaine has been talking about LeChuck near-constantly since they've reunited...? I think Guybrush just wanted that attention focused back on him for once.
    3) when Morgan turned Guybrush down in the final scene, he recalled, frustrated, how Elaine never lets him do any plundering or pillaging

    All right, I'll grant you this one. ;)
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    The only writer creditted in the credits as a writer for Spinner Cay was Mark Darin (and while he may be very good, he isn't a whole team)

    You're taking me too literally. I mean that the series is in good hands, and whether LeChuck stays good, goes back to evil, or retires and opens a parochial school in Winnipeg, I trust that they'll make it work.
  • edited August 2009
    Ok Tyraa Rane, I'll admit it, I bent any line that could have supported my theory, but your points are more likely.

    Oh I dearly want to know what TT have the balls to do now! :(
  • edited August 2009
    LeChuck's evil is still there, it's just repressed. You see it when he
    first gets his hands on the golden turtle statue.

    LeChuck really does believe he his good now, but at some point down the line he will be led to temptation and some of his more familiar traits will emerge. That probably won't happen until right near the very end though. It's obvious that LeChuck and Morgan have been designed to be rivals for Elane and Guybrush's romantic affections. They key story of ToMI is definitely about testing Elane and Guybrush's relationship and seeing if it can survive. Elane and Guybrush are already starting to grow apart.

    I think all well be right by the end though.
  • edited August 2009
    I'm thinking Lechuck is playing nice to trick Elaine into falling for him--and when he's gained her trust, he'll try to kill Guybrush so that a grief stricken Elaine will run into his arms.
  • edited August 2009
    morgan's hero worship of guybrush need not necessarily be a love thing (although, morgan is HAWT). she might end up being guybrush's adopted little sister and sidekick!
  • edited August 2009
    Also, notice that Elaine is VERY quick to give into the pox at the end of chapter 2.
    and since the Pox was LeChucks Evil, maybe he may still be manipulating it somehow.
  • edited August 2009
    Also, notice that Elaine is VERY quick to give into the pox at the end of chapter 2.
    and since the Pox was LeChucks Evil, maybe he may still be manipulating it somehow.

    Yeah, my thoughts exactly. He can control others to do his dirty work while he looks good to Elaine. The pox may also be making Elaine fall in love with LeChuck. If that's the case, I commend LeChuck for such a brilliant plan. Even better than his slaughter house amusement park plan.
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    You know where the door is, troll

    Wow. If you consider that trolling then you have never been to the armpits of the Internet.

    My theory is on the same level as the above poster's; Elaine seemed to change her mind pretty fast there in the ending as well.
  • edited August 2009
    morgan's hero worship of guybrush need not necessarily be a love thing (although, morgan is HAWT). she might end up being guybrush's adopted little sister and sidekick!

    Isn't being up a little sister and sidekick is essentialy loving and caring about her?
  • edited August 2009
    Farlander wrote: »
    EDIT: About Morgan-Elaine thing... one thing I wondered about in real life, actually... but for the sake of this post, having Guybrush as an example... at one point he fell in love with Elaine, and cares very much about her. So much that he really doesn't give a shit about crysis in the Caribbean, I would say. That is kind of admirable in a way, though in the same way dumb. That's not the point. The point is, why at some unknown moment in his life he CAN'T meet someone he would care about as much? It's not like love is a one-person-privelege (well, we know about divorces and weddings and re-weddings, heh, kinda proves the point), in my opinion friendship is a manifestation of love, and love is, basically, a maxed out to infinity friendship. Those people, beloved ones (and there's many of them), become part of one's self, and it is kind of a bit dumb to make CHOOSE between, well, different parts of yourself, because that is essentialy tearing you appart. Just my two pieces of eights.
    But there are different kinds of love. There's the brotherly/sisterly love, parent/child love, even love between friends. But romantic love is different, it can only be targeted at one person at a time. Otherwise jealousy comes into play, and actually, you can't love two people at the same time, romantically. You'll always be infatuated with one at a time. So Guybrush may flirt with Morgan (just like he did with Kate Capsize), he might even become infatuated with her, but he loves Elaine. She's everything to him. Actually, I'm just making that up, but I kind of hope that's true. Why else would they have married? And they seem to have been pretty happy together during their marriage so far...
  • edited August 2009
    But romantic love is different, it can only be targeted at one person at a time.

    That IS debatable, in my opinion. In my opinion, there is only one type of love: love. Which is a feeling people can't quite explain. Plus there is a quite short-timed affection, caused by all those chemical reactions in our brains and body, but that's not love.

    But hey, that's just me.
  • edited August 2009
    I think there are also brain chemicals that come into it in the long term, actually. I'm no expert on neurology though, sadly, but I'm pretty sure those chemicals don't just come into play with infatuation.

    Edit: Here are two interesting articles:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4478040.stm
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/04/true.love.found/index.html

    I do wish more research would be done on love, it's such a fascinating subject (although we should not over-rationalize it, of course).
  • edited August 2009
    Thanks for the links, but, personally, I'm happy enough without thinking about any processes that are going on in our brains :p
  • edited August 2009
    I keep wondering why Elaine was so quick to take a liking to LeChuck when he was transfromed back into a human. Didn't she tell him to "drop dead" before the events of Monkey Island, in his first life?
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