She only determinantly kills him if Lee doesn't win the fight, the only times Clementine can kill people are:
* S1E5 - The Stranger, if Lee fails to overpower him
* S2E5 - Kenny, if Clementine chooses to shoot him
Clementine's behavior in ANF was only out of character if you played her one way. Clem doesn't have a fixed personality. You influenced her as Lee then played as her in season 2. You can play Lee and Clem as jerks. Do I agree her non-pc should differ based on those choices? Absolutely but recognise she isn't ooc for everyone.
Ok. She is ooc for almost everyone. Doesn't make it any better, because it's a choice-based game, she should be acting differently for different players, like TT promised.
Clementine's behavior in ANF was only out of character if you played her one way. Clem doesn't have a fixed personality. You influenced her … moreas Lee then played as her in season 2. You can play Lee and Clem as jerks. Do I agree her non-pc should differ based on those choices? Absolutely but recognise she isn't ooc for everyone.
Eh, not really.
Sure, it might be objectively be a better handled sendoff compared to Kate and maybe David for some, but when you really … moretake the context of what the message of the game from Clementine's point of view was apparently supposed to be(according to the developers and @Huntress, at least), the glorified spinoff-esque nature of ANF, what his character arc was supposed to be about, and the really oddly timed precedence on choices/relationships over what actually makes sense in context, it's a thematic and tonal disarray in hindsight and, for some, on the offset.
And just to be blunt here, it will never not feel like a multilayered copout to me.
Chopping David's leg off, which caused him to bleed to death, after stating that he didn't want it cut off (granted, it was die or die situation).
David's leg was caught in a trap, and altered so that it couldn't be opened. Could they have picked him up and moved him, while being surrounded by walkers? I don't think so. The trap was chained to a tree, and you couldn't chop the chain or the tree to free David. You had two choices - leave David to be walker dinner, or chop his leg off and try to save his life. You said it was a die or die situation but only one of them was an attempt to save his life.
Shooting Jolene after he and Danny trespassed and rummaged around her camp.
Jolene was deranged and pointing a gun at you. You had reason to think that she might kill you, or try. Self defense is an acceptable reason to kill someone. Although in my playthroughs it was always whichever St. Claire brother went with.
Shooting Beatrice out of the assumption that she wants to die because of her bite.
Well, the alternative was leaving her alive so that more walkers would attack her so that they would be drawn away from (saint) Kenny and Lee. I think killing her was the more humane option. Also, hopefully, creating one less walker. Because, chances are, she would have turned walker. Lee got a scratch and look what that did to him.
Dropping Ben for making a deal with the bandits (which actually what ensured the group's safety for a while) or because Kenny wants him dead.
This is after Lily kills Carley on the mere suspicion of Carley being the person who betrayed the group by giving up supplies to the bandits. Correct? Is dropping Ben the best option? No. But it's a hell of a lot better than Kenny's idea. It's a middle of the road choice because Ben did, after all, betray the group's trust. This is the only truly questionable decision he made of the ones you listed.
Helping Kenny kill Larry, only doing so out of the assumption that he was dead and not even attempting to save him.
Does it matter that Larry tried to leave you behind, forcefully, at the drugstore? A drugstore that was being over-run by zombies? Or that Larry wanted to kill Duck on the suspicion that Duck had been bitten, even after multiple people vouched that he hadn't been? Larry had had one near heart attack already. I think it would be reasonable to assume that he might have had another, only this a fatal one. And we knew how strong he was when he decked Kenny. So... yeah, not killing him would have posed too great a threat. That is one situation I agreed with Kenny about.
You could have listed, and am surprised you didn't, either stealing supplies from the abandoned car or leaving said supplies. Now that was a questionable decision.
But his reasoning is determinant, I'm pretty sure that in almost every choice over a person's life, Lee is asked by a character to give a ju… morestification for his actions and the player can choose which it was, so it's not automatically good reasoning.
I'd also argue in certain cases he didn't exactly have good reason:
* Chopping David's leg off, which caused him to bleed to death, after stating that he didn't want it cut off (granted, it was die or die situation).
* Shooting Jolene after he and Danny trespassed and rummaged around her camp.
* Helping Kenny kill Larry, only doing so out of the assumption that he was dead and not even attempting to save him.
* Shooting Beatrice out of the assumption that she wants to die because of her bite.
* Dropping Ben for making a deal with the bandits (which actually what ensured the group's safety for a while) or because Kenny wants him dead.
This made me laugh. I have been reviewing some of the decisions in season one. Kenny was by far the more cruel man. Kenny was going to steal those supplies from the station wagon, and did even if Lee voiced his opposition to that idea. The station wagon people may have been dead, or not. We know that they were not... fifty-fifty. So he made the more selfish call. Human, but selfish.
It was Kenny's idea to leave a girl surrounded by walkers, a girl who was defenseless and had been bitten, so that her death would distract walkers while they went rummaging for supplies. Also human, but really heartless.
Kenny secured Duck from the walkers and then didn't even bother to try to save Shawn when the farm was being over-run by walkers. Kenny is all about self-preservation and protecting those he considers family. If he thought killing someone else would have kept Duck alive he wouldn't have thought twice about it, even if the person were healthy. Kenny would not have behaved one iota better than the worst version of Clem.
I'm second generation, was born in a Bangla speaking country, lived there for seven years, and now as an adult am maybe conversationally fluent in Bangla... so the thing is, a lot of second/third/fourth generation kids choose not to be bilingual/multilingual. My brother doesn't speak a whole lot of Bangla to my niece, so she's probably not going to speak any at all. That really isn't uncommon.
Thing is, we also had the option to develop Clementine, and that was tossed aside in favor of generic protagonist who's Spanish but doesn't speak Spanish but yay. So the Lee I played as would be wondering wtf about as hard as I was throughout ANF.
Also, it seems that a couple of years has passed. Aside from a few flashbacks we don't really know what all Clem went through. So "your" Clem evolved (keep in mind that evolution does not equal progress or improvement, it means change) into this new person who is angry and a little hot-headed.
Here's my take on it:
Javi's a good guy. Clem's a good girl. But Clem has also been in and out of groups and she's probably lost a lot of… more her hope in humanity, and I don't blame her at all. Season 2 was rough as hell and everyone pretty much let her down - which is why I chose to let her go off alone. I think, after everything she's seen, she would definitely grow rougher and coarse. And that's why we need someone like Javi who is just a generic "good guy", because Clem needs to be reminded of her own goodness.
Next season you'll play as her and you can develop her the way you want, but I don't blame Telltale for trying another route just this once. Clem is the heart of the game, but that doesn't mean we have to play as her every season. We needed to see a functional family so that Clem could have hope again.
I get that, it was my first reasoning when I went through the first two episodes. Here's my thing though, the timeskip did nothing but negat… moree all we did through the first two seasons. At least playing as her in season 2, we were able to put into action the influence we felt we would have had with the way we behaved in season 1. By relegating her to a minor side character with a predetermined demeanor rather than the one we spent two games fleshing out, it completely negates everything we've done beforehand. To say its a chance to see her from another perspective is borderline insulting when we're simply seeing someone else's interpretation of a character we supposedly shaped.
Add to the fact that she shows up halfway through the first episode, and she didn't appear until almost the end of the third episode for the majority of us, I don't even remember how much of a part she played on episode 4 but she wasn't even playable in the last epis… [view original content]
Clem waving the gun around and accidentally killing Eli might have had Lee feeling ashamed of her, and I'll agree wasn't her finest hour, but the whole Lingard thing was perfectly acceptable. I am very pro self-determination. That means I am very pro assisted suicide for terminally ill people, if that is what they want. You killing yourself might hurt people, but their needs or wants for you to keep living is not more than your needs and wants to die. People can overcome grief. You get to decide what you do with your life, and you are not beholden to people to continue living. It doesn't matter whether you are healthy or sick. If you want to die, you should be able to end your life. Period.
It was selfish of Lingard to ask Clementine to do it, since he should just committed suicide once he was able, but I was proud of Clementine for choosing to honor Lingard's request. Lee, if he was "my" Lee, would have been proud of her too.
It was Kenny's idea to leave a girl surrounded by walkers, a girl who was defenseless and had been bitten, so that her death would distract walkers while they went rummaging for supplies. Also human, but really heartless.
I wouldn't call that human so much as opportunistic.
This made me laugh. I have been reviewing some of the decisions in season one. Kenny was by far the more cruel man. Kenny was going to steal… more those supplies from the station wagon, and did even if Lee voiced his opposition to that idea. The station wagon people may have been dead, or not. We know that they were not... fifty-fifty. So he made the more selfish call. Human, but selfish.
It was Kenny's idea to leave a girl surrounded by walkers, a girl who was defenseless and had been bitten, so that her death would distract walkers while they went rummaging for supplies. Also human, but really heartless.
Kenny secured Duck from the walkers and then didn't even bother to try to save Shawn when the farm was being over-run by walkers. Kenny is all about self-preservation and protecting those he considers family. If he thought killing someone else would have kept Duck alive he wouldn't have thought twice about it, even if the person were healthy. Kenny would not have behaved one iota better than the worst version of Clem.
I guess Javier simply had the more memorable line about it, even if it was a bluff.
Well that and while Gabe and Mariana both like sweets, Mariana's case is generally remembered more since it was the subject of a little side quest and it's one of the few character traits she had.
Clem waving the gun around and accidentally killing Eli might have had Lee feeling ashamed of her, and I'll agree wasn't her finest hour, bu… moret the whole Lingard thing was perfectly acceptable. I am very pro self-determination. That means I am very pro assisted suicide for terminally ill people, if that is what they want. You killing yourself might hurt people, but their needs or wants for you to keep living is not more than your needs and wants to die. People can overcome grief. You get to decide what you do with your life, and you are not beholden to people to continue living. It doesn't matter whether you are healthy or sick. If you want to die, you should be able to end your life. Period.
It was selfish of Lingard to ask Clementine to do it, since he should just committed suicide once he was able, but I was proud of Clementine for choosing to honor Lingard's request. Lee, if he was "my" Lee, would have been proud of her too.
But his reasoning is determinant, I'm pretty sure that in almost every choice over a person's life, Lee is asked by a character to give a ju… morestification for his actions and the player can choose which it was, so it's not automatically good reasoning.
I'd also argue in certain cases he didn't exactly have good reason:
* Chopping David's leg off, which caused him to bleed to death, after stating that he didn't want it cut off (granted, it was die or die situation).
* Shooting Jolene after he and Danny trespassed and rummaged around her camp.
* Helping Kenny kill Larry, only doing so out of the assumption that he was dead and not even attempting to save him.
* Shooting Beatrice out of the assumption that she wants to die because of her bite.
* Dropping Ben for making a deal with the bandits (which actually what ensured the group's safety for a while) or because Kenny wants him dead.
And I'm a second generation Puerto Rican who was born in America. I speak very little Spanish, but I still can grasp pronunciations because I grew up in a Spanish household. It's comical that David has said his daughters name twice, and twice he's pronounced it correctly compared to Xaviers clearly white VA. Again, good try.
I'm second generation, was born in a Bangla speaking country, lived there for seven years, and now as an adult am maybe conversationally flu… moreent in Bangla... so the thing is, a lot of second/third/fourth generation kids choose not to be bilingual/multilingual. My brother doesn't speak a whole lot of Bangla to my niece, so she's probably not going to speak any at all. That really isn't uncommon.
To which I will say this: there are Bangla consonants that I can hear, and reproduce, that my brother can't. I give more leeway to voice actors, and think that maybe you are being a bit too nit picky, but it's very possible that if I could detect the flaws in the accent I'd be annoyed too.
And I'm a second generation Puerto Rican who was born in America. I speak very little Spanish, but I still can grasp pronunciations because … moreI grew up in a Spanish household. It's comical that David has said his daughters name twice, and twice he's pronounced it correctly compared to Xaviers clearly white VA. Again, good try.
And I'm a second generation Puerto Rican who was born in America. I speak very little Spanish, but I still can grasp pronunciations because … moreI grew up in a Spanish household. It's comical that David has said his daughters name twice, and twice he's pronounced it correctly compared to Xaviers clearly white VA. Again, good try.
Granted, what I'm saying is Spanish a very easy and common dialect. Less so to anyone who's grown up outside of it, and it's a telling sign of someone unfamiliar with the language when they don't recognize some of the key pronunciations. I didn't think Jeff did a bad job as the character, but he left the performance wanting as a Hispanic American character. It's made all the more worse by Telltale gloating about their ethnic diversity regarding characters. Nobody would say birth of a nation was a diverse film because they put people in blackface. Xavier came off as very poor, to me, not only because he was a generic character but because he was voiced by a white guy who clearly had no experience with the native dialect of the character he was supposed to represent.
There were many, many more issues I had with the story and his behavior, this was just me as someone who's grown up in a Hispanic environment, and you may be right, some of these issues were made all the more obvious because of this.
If I remember correctly, Javiers original actor was Hispanic American, the one from the E3 trailer. It wouldn't have fixed the issues I had with the game overall, but it might have made the character itself more bearable if he seemed authentic.
To which I will say this: there are Bangla consonants that I can hear, and reproduce, that my brother can't. I give more leeway to voice act… moreors, and think that maybe you are being a bit too nit picky, but it's very possible that if I could detect the flaws in the accent I'd be annoyed too.
Bro I literally just said Davids VA pronounced it correctly the two times he said her name, which was two more correct pronunciations than Jeff had during the course of the game.
What exactly did Lee teach her and what exactly about his morals violates assisted suicide?
There are at least two moments where he can make questionable choices.
1) stealing from the station wagon, which Lee determinately can choose to do. stealing supplies in the world they lived in was to possibly endanger other peoples' lives, therefore morally wrong
2) letting Ben die in "around every corner". the situation is that Ben was grabbed by a walker and he tells Lee to leave him behind. Lee can either agree and let him go or disagree and save him. **Lee not saving him is a passive version of letting Ben commit suicide. **
There is a huge difference between murder and assisted suicide. Lilly murders either Carly or Doug because she's unhinged and suspects someone of betraying the group. Lingard ASKS Clem to help him die - "suicide committed by someone with assistance from another person" according to Merriam Webster. He was lucid when he asks, too. Watch this if you need your memory jogged.
Bro I literally just said Davids VA pronounced it correctly the two times he said her name, which was two more correct pronunciations than Jeff had during the course of the game.
Pretty sure there is a moment in Episode 1 where Lee can assist a bitten woman in suicide (and at that point he can't be sure how the bite works or if the bite always kills you). So he may approve.
No, i think Lee would be proud of Clementine. If Lee had survived this long, he'd be hardened by the apocalypse as well. Lee and Clementine would've made a great team.
I mean, he wouldn't be the only one though, that's what I'm saying. There's a very specific way that Hispanics pronounce certain letters, I do it myself without even noticing. Javiers character should not be disconnected as his VA is considering he was brought up in the same household as his older brother. Kate I understand, I assumed she was white, not sure why she's the one who came up with the god awful muertos, but I still have no idea why TT thought replacing Javiers Latino actor was a good idea when the new dude had no grasp on the language.
I think he would be proud. Besides, in my S2, she was already kind of a sensitive badass because of the choices I made with Lee, so in my story, her character development just makes sense. She grew up to be even more badass and understood that she had to grow up fast considering the world she's living into, specially since I made her leave with Jane, which makes more badass in her blood.
Although I don't really understand why there is no flashback on what's become of Jane in ANF, if someone could light my lantern. I read somewhere that you're supposed to see her in the flashback with AJ if you choose to leave with her but I don't see her. Maybe it's because my save wasn't imported correctly?
Lee acknowledges that that was a mistake, showed some form of remorse for the entire situation, and depending on your choices, took steps to… more do better where he could.
Clementine immediately tries to cover it up by asking a guy she tried to rob to lie, either gets mad because "you can't trust anyone" or jokes about how she didn't peg him as someone who'd do that for her, and then it's just kinda forgotten about with little to no indication that she's consciously trying to avoid doing something like that again.
Although I don't really understand why there is no flashback on what's become of Jane in ANF, if someone could light my lantern. I read somewhere that you're supposed to see her in the flashback with AJ if you choose to leave with her but I don't see her.
Have you ever seen the ending where you leave with her? Cause the details in that plays a part in that.
I think he would be proud. Besides, in my S2, she was already kind of a sensitive badass because of the choices I made with Lee, so in my st… moreory, her character development just makes sense. She grew up to be even more badass and understood that she had to grow up fast considering the world she's living into, specially since I made her leave with Jane, which makes more badass in her blood.
Although I don't really understand why there is no flashback on what's become of Jane in ANF, if someone could light my lantern. I read somewhere that you're supposed to see her in the flashback with AJ if you choose to leave with her but I don't see her. Maybe it's because my save wasn't imported correctly?
Javiers character should not be disconnected as his VA is considering he was brought up in the same household as his older brother.
Mmm...true. Personally, I didn't mind it since I thought it was easy way to hammer home David's point: that Javier's been so ingrain in American culture and been away from his family for so long that he now sounds more like an average white guy than he does a Hispanic person.
Well that and I barely noticed half the time. With that said, I think maybe they could've also done like Star Wars Rebels did in one episode and have Javier occasionally slip back into his birth accent when under considerable stress(the rare times when that happens, anyway) and/or really relating with one of his family members.
Kate I understand, I assumed she was white, not sure why she's the one who came up with the god awful muertos
I was kinda wondering about that myself, tbh. Like, I realize she was meant to be the smart/technical one of the family, but there's a difference between coming up with survival strats and coining things with Spanish terms when I'm pretty sure she's not Cuban or any form of Hispanic herself--Cultural appropriation for the win!
I mean, he wouldn't be the only one though, that's what I'm saying. There's a very specific way that Hispanics pronounce certain letters, I … moredo it myself without even noticing. Javiers character should not be disconnected as his VA is considering he was brought up in the same household as his older brother. Kate I understand, I assumed she was white, not sure why she's the one who came up with the god awful muertos, but I still have no idea why TT thought replacing Javiers Latino actor was a good idea when the new dude had no grasp on the language.
To be fair, he kinda needed that gas to keep the van going and had been collecting before they found the trailer and Kate pointed out it likely belongs to someone. Max just happened to pull up right after Javier came outside to get the jug before they could really do anything else and the kids had already started digging in by that point.
Also, I personally always just took that junkyard as a little retreat for Max and Badger's crews to hang out at, possibly inbetween raids.
To be fair, he kinda needed that gas to keep the van going and had been collecting before they found the trailer and Kate pointed out it lik… moreely belongs to someone. Max just happened to pull up right after Javier came outside to get the jug before they could really do anything else and the kids had already started digging in by that point.
Also, I personally always just took that junkyard as a little retreat for Max and Badger's crews to hang out at, possibly inbetween raids.
Except they explicitly stated that was an outpost of theirs, and if they weren't producing pudding for whatever stupid reason they were, Xavier and company would be in for a severe case of food poisoning considering preoutbreak pudding would have gone bad years ago. So that's a thing.
You remain the best person I've met on a forum to converse with lol.
Issue 1 may be the only thing we differ on in this case. Xavier is, what, late 20s? At earliest, he left his family in his teens. From Davids design I didn't, I didn't get that they were separated by much more than a few years. It seems they clearly grew up together. At worst, in terms of age, he was drafted in his senior year and not 18. Regardless, none of those years are when development is critical for a person. He would have grown up in his own environment before embracing American culture. This country is the melting pot, but we all keep distinct traits, and that's what identifies us as a unique group of people, the differences we share together.
Javiers character should not be disconnected as his VA is considering he was brought up in the same household as his older brother.
… moreMmm...true. Personally, I didn't mind it since I thought it was easy way to hammer home David's point: that Javier's been so ingrain in American culture and been away from his family for so long that he now sounds more like an average white guy than he does a Hispanic person.
Well that and I barely noticed half the time. With that said, I think maybe they could've also done like Star Wars Rebels did in one episode and have Javier occasionally slip back into his birth accent when under considerable stress(the rare times when that happens, anyway) and/or really relating with one of his family members.
Kate I understand, I assumed she was white, not sure why she's the one who came up with the god awful muertos
I was kinda wondering about that myself, tbh. Like, I realize she was meant to be… [view original content]
True. Really, they probably could've stuck with the voice actor they had originally or at least one that would've been a nice middleground between the two.
You remain the best person I've met on a forum to converse with lol.
Issue 1 may be the only thing we differ on in this case. Xavier is, … morewhat, late 20s? At earliest, he left his family in his teens. From Davids design I didn't, I didn't get that they were separated by much more than a few years. It seems they clearly grew up together. At worst, in terms of age, he was drafted in his senior year and not 18. Regardless, none of those years are when development is critical for a person. He would have grown up in his own environment before embracing American culture. This country is the melting pot, but we all keep distinct traits, and that's what identifies us as a unique group of people, the differences we share together.
Comments
She can also leave Sarah to die which I know isn't "directly" killing her but still.
Clementine's behavior in ANF was only out of character if you played her one way. Clem doesn't have a fixed personality. You influenced her as Lee then played as her in season 2. You can play Lee and Clem as jerks. Do I agree her non-pc should differ based on those choices? Absolutely but recognise she isn't ooc for everyone.
Ok. She is ooc for almost everyone. Doesn't make it any better, because it's a choice-based game, she should be acting differently for different players, like TT promised.
. Bro.
I disagree with your assessments of those cases
David's leg was caught in a trap, and altered so that it couldn't be opened. Could they have picked him up and moved him, while being surrounded by walkers? I don't think so. The trap was chained to a tree, and you couldn't chop the chain or the tree to free David. You had two choices - leave David to be walker dinner, or chop his leg off and try to save his life. You said it was a die or die situation but only one of them was an attempt to save his life.
Jolene was deranged and pointing a gun at you. You had reason to think that she might kill you, or try. Self defense is an acceptable reason to kill someone. Although in my playthroughs it was always whichever St. Claire brother went with.
Well, the alternative was leaving her alive so that more walkers would attack her so that they would be drawn away from (saint) Kenny and Lee. I think killing her was the more humane option. Also, hopefully, creating one less walker. Because, chances are, she would have turned walker. Lee got a scratch and look what that did to him.
This is after Lily kills Carley on the mere suspicion of Carley being the person who betrayed the group by giving up supplies to the bandits. Correct? Is dropping Ben the best option? No. But it's a hell of a lot better than Kenny's idea. It's a middle of the road choice because Ben did, after all, betray the group's trust. This is the only truly questionable decision he made of the ones you listed.
Does it matter that Larry tried to leave you behind, forcefully, at the drugstore? A drugstore that was being over-run by zombies? Or that Larry wanted to kill Duck on the suspicion that Duck had been bitten, even after multiple people vouched that he hadn't been? Larry had had one near heart attack already. I think it would be reasonable to assume that he might have had another, only this a fatal one. And we knew how strong he was when he decked Kenny. So... yeah, not killing him would have posed too great a threat. That is one situation I agreed with Kenny about.
You could have listed, and am surprised you didn't, either stealing supplies from the abandoned car or leaving said supplies. Now that was a questionable decision.
This made me laugh. I have been reviewing some of the decisions in season one. Kenny was by far the more cruel man. Kenny was going to steal those supplies from the station wagon, and did even if Lee voiced his opposition to that idea. The station wagon people may have been dead, or not. We know that they were not... fifty-fifty. So he made the more selfish call. Human, but selfish.
It was Kenny's idea to leave a girl surrounded by walkers, a girl who was defenseless and had been bitten, so that her death would distract walkers while they went rummaging for supplies. Also human, but really heartless.
Kenny secured Duck from the walkers and then didn't even bother to try to save Shawn when the farm was being over-run by walkers. Kenny is all about self-preservation and protecting those he considers family. If he thought killing someone else would have kept Duck alive he wouldn't have thought twice about it, even if the person were healthy. Kenny would not have behaved one iota better than the worst version of Clem.
I'm second generation, was born in a Bangla speaking country, lived there for seven years, and now as an adult am maybe conversationally fluent in Bangla... so the thing is, a lot of second/third/fourth generation kids choose not to be bilingual/multilingual. My brother doesn't speak a whole lot of Bangla to my niece, so she's probably not going to speak any at all. That really isn't uncommon.
Also, it seems that a couple of years has passed. Aside from a few flashbacks we don't really know what all Clem went through. So "your" Clem evolved (keep in mind that evolution does not equal progress or improvement, it means change) into this new person who is angry and a little hot-headed.
It was actually Gabe who loved pudding.
Your criticisms of Javier are weak.
Clem waving the gun around and accidentally killing Eli might have had Lee feeling ashamed of her, and I'll agree wasn't her finest hour, but the whole Lingard thing was perfectly acceptable. I am very pro self-determination. That means I am very pro assisted suicide for terminally ill people, if that is what they want. You killing yourself might hurt people, but their needs or wants for you to keep living is not more than your needs and wants to die. People can overcome grief. You get to decide what you do with your life, and you are not beholden to people to continue living. It doesn't matter whether you are healthy or sick. If you want to die, you should be able to end your life. Period.
It was selfish of Lingard to ask Clementine to do it, since he should just committed suicide once he was able, but I was proud of Clementine for choosing to honor Lingard's request. Lee, if he was "my" Lee, would have been proud of her too.
I think Lee would be disappointed with Telltale for making such a poor game that is Season 3 too
I wouldn't call that human so much as opportunistic.
I guess Javier simply had the more memorable line about it, even if it was a bluff.
Well that and while Gabe and Mariana both like sweets, Mariana's case is generally remembered more since it was the subject of a little side quest and it's one of the few character traits she had.
Also, fuck that mentality.
I suppose that is a positive way of looking at it.
Also, Lingard admits that the only reason he hadn't done it already was because he thinks of himself as too much of a coward.
It's Irene. Beatrice was the screamer in the streets.
Not as weak as Xaviers character, but good try.
And I'm a second generation Puerto Rican who was born in America. I speak very little Spanish, but I still can grasp pronunciations because I grew up in a Spanish household. It's comical that David has said his daughters name twice, and twice he's pronounced it correctly compared to Xaviers clearly white VA. Again, good try.
To which I will say this: there are Bangla consonants that I can hear, and reproduce, that my brother can't. I give more leeway to voice actors, and think that maybe you are being a bit too nit picky, but it's very possible that if I could detect the flaws in the accent I'd be annoyed too.
How exactly is it supposed to be said then?
Granted, what I'm saying is Spanish a very easy and common dialect. Less so to anyone who's grown up outside of it, and it's a telling sign of someone unfamiliar with the language when they don't recognize some of the key pronunciations. I didn't think Jeff did a bad job as the character, but he left the performance wanting as a Hispanic American character. It's made all the more worse by Telltale gloating about their ethnic diversity regarding characters. Nobody would say birth of a nation was a diverse film because they put people in blackface. Xavier came off as very poor, to me, not only because he was a generic character but because he was voiced by a white guy who clearly had no experience with the native dialect of the character he was supposed to represent.
There were many, many more issues I had with the story and his behavior, this was just me as someone who's grown up in a Hispanic environment, and you may be right, some of these issues were made all the more obvious because of this.
If I remember correctly, Javiers original actor was Hispanic American, the one from the E3 trailer. It wouldn't have fixed the issues I had with the game overall, but it might have made the character itself more bearable if he seemed authentic.
Bro I literally just said Davids VA pronounced it correctly the two times he said her name, which was two more correct pronunciations than Jeff had during the course of the game.
What exactly did Lee teach her and what exactly about his morals violates assisted suicide?
There are at least two moments where he can make questionable choices.
1) stealing from the station wagon, which Lee determinately can choose to do. stealing supplies in the world they lived in was to possibly endanger other peoples' lives, therefore morally wrong
2) letting Ben die in "around every corner". the situation is that Ben was grabbed by a walker and he tells Lee to leave him behind. Lee can either agree and let him go or disagree and save him. **Lee not saving him is a passive version of letting Ben commit suicide. **
There is a huge difference between murder and assisted suicide. Lilly murders either Carly or Doug because she's unhinged and suspects someone of betraying the group. Lingard ASKS Clem to help him die - "suicide committed by someone with assistance from another person" according to Merriam Webster. He was lucid when he asks, too. Watch this if you need your memory jogged.
An act of mercy
You might not think suicide is morally right but what proof do you have that Lee would have agreed with you?
Eh. He's her dad (at least after the later rewrites), so he should be the one to know how to pronounce it.
Pretty sure there is a moment in Episode 1 where Lee can assist a bitten woman in suicide (and at that point he can't be sure how the bite works or if the bite always kills you). So he may approve.
No, i think Lee would be proud of Clementine. If Lee had survived this long, he'd be hardened by the apocalypse as well. Lee and Clementine would've made a great team.
I mean, he wouldn't be the only one though, that's what I'm saying. There's a very specific way that Hispanics pronounce certain letters, I do it myself without even noticing. Javiers character should not be disconnected as his VA is considering he was brought up in the same household as his older brother. Kate I understand, I assumed she was white, not sure why she's the one who came up with the god awful muertos, but I still have no idea why TT thought replacing Javiers Latino actor was a good idea when the new dude had no grasp on the language.
I think he would be proud. Besides, in my S2, she was already kind of a sensitive badass because of the choices I made with Lee, so in my story, her character development just makes sense. She grew up to be even more badass and understood that she had to grow up fast considering the world she's living into, specially since I made her leave with Jane, which makes more badass in her blood.
Although I don't really understand why there is no flashback on what's become of Jane in ANF, if someone could light my lantern. I read somewhere that you're supposed to see her in the flashback with AJ if you choose to leave with her but I don't see her. Maybe it's because my save wasn't imported correctly?
That's the guy who just robbed another group, right? A New Fail.
Have you ever seen the ending where you leave with her? Cause the details in that plays a part in that.
Mmm...true. Personally, I didn't mind it since I thought it was easy way to hammer home David's point: that Javier's been so ingrain in American culture and been away from his family for so long that he now sounds more like an average white guy than he does a Hispanic person.
Well that and I barely noticed half the time.
With that said, I think maybe they could've also done like Star Wars Rebels did in one episode and have Javier occasionally slip back into his birth accent when under considerable stress(the rare times when that happens, anyway) and/or really relating with one of his family members.
I was kinda wondering about that myself, tbh. Like, I realize she was meant to be the smart/technical one of the family, but there's a difference between coming up with survival strats and coining things with Spanish terms when I'm pretty sure she's not Cuban or any form of Hispanic herself--Cultural appropriation for the win!
What?
I think he is trying to accuse Javier of stealing the gas and pudding from TNF and they didn't even belong to them.
To be fair, he kinda needed that gas to keep the van going and had been collecting before they found the trailer and Kate pointed out it likely belongs to someone. Max just happened to pull up right after Javier came outside to get the jug before they could really do anything else and the kids had already started digging in by that point.
Also, I personally always just took that junkyard as a little retreat for Max and Badger's crews to hang out at, possibly inbetween raids.
I agree with all of this.
But, did you mean to reply to me?
Well, yeah, you replied to me first, so it made sense. He/she can through in his 2 cents whenever he comes back.
Okay, then. That makes sense.
Except they explicitly stated that was an outpost of theirs, and if they weren't producing pudding for whatever stupid reason they were, Xavier and company would be in for a severe case of food poisoning considering preoutbreak pudding would have gone bad years ago. So that's a thing.
You remain the best person I've met on a forum to converse with lol.
Issue 1 may be the only thing we differ on in this case. Xavier is, what, late 20s? At earliest, he left his family in his teens. From Davids design I didn't, I didn't get that they were separated by much more than a few years. It seems they clearly grew up together. At worst, in terms of age, he was drafted in his senior year and not 18. Regardless, none of those years are when development is critical for a person. He would have grown up in his own environment before embracing American culture. This country is the melting pot, but we all keep distinct traits, and that's what identifies us as a unique group of people, the differences we share together.
This is the apocalypse who gives a crap if she killed some people, she survived this long. I would be proud if I was Lee.
True. Really, they probably could've stuck with the voice actor they had originally or at least one that would've been a nice middleground between the two.