Who's a bigger "villain" Lilly (Season One) or Jane (Season Two)

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  • Okay wow not trying to get into an abortion argument here but Jane had sex with Luke like.... 2 or 3 days prior? Does not necessarily make her a "pregnant" woman, Jane didn't even know and Kenny certainly didn't know. Regardless there was no developed fetus inside her at that point anyways.

    And saying that Jane's fate was Telltale's writing flaw is ridiculous, Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.

    cutupuss- posted: »

    Kenny is still technically the real hypocrite, he kills a pregnant woman (jane) whilst shouting at her for being a "baby killer", he knew sh

  • edited March 2018

    ((I say mostly because she left a baby to die and dint even think of stopping the fight for her survival when it stopped going her way.))

    Even if Jane tried to stop Kenny it wouldn't work and she wanted to fight him,you can clearly see Kenny lost his mind at this point.

    I still don't know if i like this scene or hate it there's so many things that doesn't make sense,
    i actually think they should have went with a final choice to save Kenny or Luke.

    UrbanRodrik posted: »

    Clearly Jane Lily was highly unstable during episode 3 after Larry s death so her Killing Doug/Carley is not as bad as Jane s plan which was

  • edited March 2018

    Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.

    Lol oh please just don't try to defend what they did this was stupid there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
    Her death is not even heroic like Kenny this is literally a middle finger from Telltale to all the people who liked her.

    Okay wow not trying to get into an abortion argument here but Jane had sex with Luke like.... 2 or 3 days prior? Does not necessarily make h

  • Why are you pretending she is a hero and not a person who left her sister to die, called leaving a young traumatized girl to die the "right decision, wanted to rob a stranger, and pretended that a baby was dead in order to provoke a deadly confrontation and prove a point? Jane was a horrible person who had her own interests at heart and her death is fitting considering how selfish she was and how much she disliked children.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.

  • Yeah well Kenny wasn't a hero either he did a lot of things that weren't really "heroic" i know you probably love him and i do too but that doesn't excuse what Telltale did to Jane.

    Seriously they killed her like she was nothing she didn't even leave a note for Clementine (she cared about Clementine) no she just died like that.She didn't hated children she cared a lot about Clementine otherwise she wouldn't have come back for her.

    Why are you pretending she is a hero and not a person who left her sister to die, called leaving a young traumatized girl to die the "right

  • there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"

    The theory of her being pregnant by Troy/Luke was definitely a common one; her committing suicide after realizing it was like, " What."

    Her committing suicide by literally hanging herself, combined with the way it was preceded and especially revealed, was narmy as shit though.

    Her death is not even heroic like Kenny

    Funny you say that considering that was the most likely of two ways I saw her dying.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.

  • Kenny made some difficult decisions but that's what you have to do to survive in the Walking Dead. Good guys like Lee, Rick Grimes, even Clementine had to make some not nice decisions in order to protect other people. The not nice things that Kenny did doesn't take away from the fact that he always tried protecting others, even if they didn't realize it or appreciate it. And Kenny never left children to die or toyed with people's emotions to prove a point.

    And Jane saw Clementine as less of a child and more of a capable version of her dead sister. She was trying to fill that void of shame and guilt that she felt after Jaime died, but her lessons were very twisted such as telling Clem to leave her friends behind and to only look out for herself. Jane looked at all the other children like AJ and Sarah with disgust which explains why she simply gave up and killed herself instead of sticking it out for the people she claimed to care about so much.

    iFoRias posted: »

    Yeah well Kenny wasn't a hero either he did a lot of things that weren't really "heroic" i know you probably love him and i do too but that

  • You make some good points but i can't accept what they did

    Yeah she tell Clem to look out for herself but she's not really wrong trusting people in the apocalypse is really dangerous and she saw that Kenny was dangerous and would snap everytime something bad was happening (Kenny is a good guy but he really can't control his anger)
    then in Season 3 there's a flashback where Kenny is completely happy and he died protecting Clem and AJ.
    And Jane died hanging herself just because she's pregnant ? You see there's something not right with that,you're trying to find an excuse for Jane's death but they wanted to get rid of them and this was just fucking stupid.

    Even if you hate Jane i don't know how you can accept how stupid her death was,Telltale did not care about these characters we loved in season 2 (and let's not forget how awful they looked) and just decided to kill them because they couldn't bother finding a way to keep them alive.

    Kenny made some difficult decisions but that's what you have to do to survive in the Walking Dead. Good guys like Lee, Rick Grimes, even Cle

  • Kenny was angry because he was in a group that essentially dragged him into the Carver situation which resulted in him losing his home, his friends, even his eyeball. And then when he picks himself back up and takes care of the baby and looks after the group they act like he's some crazy asshole. I would be angry in that environment as well. In the s3 flashback he finds redemption and happiness taking care of the kids without some shitbird robbing them or talking behind his back.

    I'm not saying it wasn't stupid for Telltale to kill off the s2 endings in 5 minutes, because it was stupid and downright lazy and offensive to fans of the series. I'm just saying that Kenny and Jane's were still in character, because they were.

    iFoRias posted: »

    You make some good points but i can't accept what they did Yeah she tell Clem to look out for herself but she's not really wrong trusting

  • edited March 2018

    I'm not saying it wasn't stupid for Telltale to kill off the s2 endings in 5 minutes, because it was stupid and downright lazy and offensive to fans of the series. I'm just saying that Kenny and Jane's were still in character, because they were.

    The problem for me was how pathetic and lazy her death was like you said.
    And Yes this was out of character,
    Jane teached Clem how to survive, to not trust people all these years,lie about the baby's death and fight Kenny to prove a point (she admit that was stupid but she did it because she wanted to protect Clem) and after all this that's what she get ?

    She was a survivor who deserved to went out with a fight.
    This wasn't even hard to do if Telltale didn't care about her just let her fight against the family and say goodbye to Clem and AJ.You see Clem leave and Jane's dying and that's it.

    Kenny was angry because he was in a group that essentially dragged him into the Carver situation which resulted in him losing his home, his

  • The theory of her being pregnant by Troy/Luke was definitely a common one; her committing suicide after realizing it was like, " What."

    Yeah her death is so fucking depressing and out of nowhere i don't understand how Clem is still alive in that ending she lost Jane who decided to commit suicide and had to shoot her (determinantly) and she's left with a baby all alone,
    but there's also a lot of things i don't understand about this game so yeah..

    DabigRG posted: »

    there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were

  • I agree completely. I like them both equally great points.

    Veeeee posted: »

    So, this has been a thing that has annoyed me for a long time and I'm going to get a lot of crap for saying this but I'm going to say it any

  • how exactly would it not work her to simply say that AJ s alive and in the car?

    iFoRias posted: »

    ((I say mostly because she left a baby to die and dint even think of stopping the fight for her survival when it stopped going her way.))

  • edited March 2018

    Kenny don't always think when he act so when he saw Jane without the baby it was over if you told Kenny to "listen to her" he said he's done talking.

    UrbanRodrik posted: »

    how exactly would it not work her to simply say that AJ s alive and in the car?

  • dan290786 posted: »

    Jane never planned on killing Kenny Well that has been debatable over time and i’ll explain why. She played the victim during that f

  • edited March 2018

    Are you still trying to argue with me or something? If that's the case you'll be disappointed i'm done arguing on this thread.

    dan290786 posted: »

    @Veeeee

  • Arguing? Debating more like. You didn’t reply to my post from days ago which is why i tagged you. I didn’t know you had read it. A simple reply saying you didn’t want to discuss it would have been fine, jeez!

    Veeeee posted: »

    Are you still trying to argue with me or something? If that's the case you'll be disappointed i'm done arguing on this thread.

  • edited March 2018

    Forgot to make this a reply @dan290786

    I SUMMON YOU!

    We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic for months on end if we really wanted to. Personally I would rather spend my time discussing other things. Too da loo!

  • We're both competitive and like to be right.

    Kinda like Kenny!

    Veeeee posted: »

    Forgot to make this a reply @dan290786 I SUMMON YOU! We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic fo

  • edited March 2018

    Lol thank you, that’s all i ask :) i only replied to counter what you said or more so give you another perspective. Neither is right or wrong.

    Veeeee posted: »

    Forgot to make this a reply @dan290786 I SUMMON YOU! We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic fo

  • Yep

    DabigRG posted: »

    We're both competitive and like to be right. Kinda like Kenny!

  • Lilly was kind of alright until she killed Carly/Doug. I hated Jane from the start, wanting to leave Sarah, pretending that AJ had died so that she could kill Kenny, which is horrible. Jane is definitely the worst.

  • edited March 2018

    there's no sence in this discussion. Just make people arguing.. #$h1tDiscussions

  • edited March 2018

    I don't think Kenny sees "good" and "bad" in the conventional sense. His "morality" or "should/shouldn't do" criteria has less to do with some defined moral code found in most people but rather whether one's opinions and actions align with his own ideals and goals or not. He does not concede. Ever. It's either you're with him or against him, no middle ground, no room for discussion. The moment where this is most apparent being when Kenny is confronted with the decision on whether or not to join Lee/the group on finding Clementine. The very game itself has a system that determines Kenny's choice, and it's all reliant on how often you sided with him throughout the Season. It's not about doing the right thing for a little girl for Kenny but about whether or not these people are worth his favor, worth his effort.

    So when you ask who Kenny sees as being more of a "villain", you're asking which one of the two women opposed Kenny's defined, unbending ideals in the most marking way. As many have said already, it was definitely Jane, but not because of some intrinsic moral degradation in her action, but because it strongly opposed him, his ideals and his goals.

    The mark Lilly left on Kenny pales in comparison to the effect of Jane's actions in No Going Back. Lilly kills Carley/Doug in cold blood, but since so very little of Kenny's envision of the future relied on them he is extremely quick to brush it all aside and is even seen talking about Lilly in a rather amenable way a few days later. Fast forward to No Going Back and Kenny's whole future, his sole goal, his apparent only purpose surrounded AJ. Even the slightest, even if allegedly accidental, sign of sabotage on that future was all it took for Kenny to completely snap. Even after assessing that that future was never, in fact, at risk, Kenny still had Jane as far in the "against me" spectrum as possible, not even treating her as a person, a human really, but talking of her as a threat that needed to be purged and put down at all costs.

    So to sum it up, Lilly's showdown with Carley's/Doug's face is not even comparable to the pain and rage Jane's actions inflicted on Kenny, not because her actions broke a moral code but because they threatened what Kenny wanted.

  • That is a pretty direct way of putting it, yes.

    Lilly's showdown with Carley's face

    :lol:

    I don't think Kenny sees "good" and "bad" in the conventional sense. His "morality" or "should/shouldn't do" criteria has less to do with so

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