The problem with ANF is that out of nowhere it started off with new characters with a new playable character (Javi) that nobody asked for. Most of the game you play as Javi and we almost never play as Clem, they could've at least balanced it when you play as Javi and Clem. ANF we should've been playing as Clem the whole time and we're with Kenny or Jane (Depending on your choice in S2) and we're taking care of AJ. Actually, how awesome would it be if you could play as Clem some episodes and Kenny/Jane other episodes?
I don't hate AJ, I just don't really care that much about him as the story wants me to.
Well, at least you didn't call him a liability!
probes the player to sell out Nick and Sarah for not being 'strong enough'
And completely off topic, but if you do decide to abandon Sarah - granting Jane's wish, she blames you for NOT CARING. Can you believe that? Jane of all people.
I don't hate AJ, I just don't really care that much about him as the story wants me to.
And speaking of double standards, I find that the… more bigger one is that in Season 2 the story often probes the player to sell out Nick and Sarah for not being 'strong enough'...but at the same time they expect you to devote your entire life to a newborn baby that will be utterly helpless and fully incapable of looking after themselves for a good ten years, and will scream and cry loudly without warning in a zombie apocalypse.
Had Clementine been introduced in Season 2 instead of 1, the writers would likely have given her the same treatment as they did with Sarah.
Having Clem playable would've boosted ANF's perception amongst fans as a whole. Thinking about it now, I think Telltale experimented with ANF to see how fans would react having nothing to do with her. Didn't go so well lol.
The problem with ANF is that out of nowhere it started off with new characters with a new playable character (Javi) that nobody asked for. M… moreost of the game you play as Javi and we almost never play as Clem, they could've at least balanced it when you play as Javi and Clem. ANF we should've been playing as Clem the whole time and we're with Kenny or Jane (Depending on your choice in S2) and we're taking care of AJ. Actually, how awesome would it be if you could play as Clem some episodes and Kenny/Jane other episodes?
Having Clem playable would've boosted ANF's perception amongst fans as a whole. Thinking about it now, I think Telltale experimented with ANF to see how fans would react having nothing to do with her. Didn't go so well lol.
He gave Jane, Luke, and Bonnie a reason to act the way he did. Their actions didn’t result from nothing. Kenny set them off. They were all good people until he turned them ugly. They wouldn’t have done the things they had done had Kenny not pushed them to the edge.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's? You really seem to justify the fact that Luke, Bonnie, Mike and even Jane (Despite threatening him not to come back) have every right to defend a shitbird who set up an ambush on the group, steal their supplies and almost killed them. My Clementine didn't even rob him and he still came and screw us up.
Good people? Since when was Bonnie a good person? She is one of the worst traitors in the whole series. She had been betraying her friends since 400 Days. Bonnie had ZERO problems leaving Clem behind without any supplies, her hatred on Kenny is not an excuse, she can even blame you for Luke's death despite all that being her own fault.
Jane? Yeah, leaving a baby in a frozen car that could get him killed definitely makes her a good person. Worse is that she leaves Clem and AJ behind because of stupid decision she (Jane) has made in Episode 4, not even leaving a note with an apology or telling them what to do. Telling me to leave my friends behind was never an advice, it's just a reason to make you one of the worst humans in the world. It's her fault Sarah died at the deck.
Let’s not pretend Kenny was a saint here. Even before Sarita’s death he was showing signs of irrationality. He may have lost stability after… more Sarita died, but him taking his anger out on the others was completely unacceptable. He gave Jane, Luke, and Bonnie a reason to act the way he did. Their actions didn’t result from nothing. Kenny set them off. They were all good people until he turned them ugly. They wouldn’t have done the things they had done had Kenny not pushed them to the edge.
Of course not, I wouldn't even go as low as to toss him to the walkers as bait either. Ideally, I'd have given him to a community who welcomes and are fully capable and supplied for raising children.
And completely off topic, but if you do decide to abandon Sarah - granting Jane's wish, she blames you for NOT CARING. Can you believe that? Jane of all people.
I don't hate AJ, I just don't really care that much about him as the story wants me to.
Well, at least you didn't call him a liabili… morety!
probes the player to sell out Nick and Sarah for not being 'strong enough'
And completely off topic, but if you do decide to abandon Sarah - granting Jane's wish, she blames you for NOT CARING. Can you believe that? Jane of all people.
if you do decide to abandon Sarah - granting Jane's wish, she blames you for NOT CARING. Can you believe that? Jane of all people.
I don't remember that. I recently replayed the collection and Jane never blamed Clem for that.
who set up an ambush on the group, steal their supplies and almost killed them. My Clementine didn't even rob him and he still came and screw us up.
My point exactly.
Telling me to leave my friends behind was never an advice, it's just a reason to make you one of the worst humans in the world.
And some still find her the most suitable to travel with! If it ever came down to it, Jane wouldn't think twice about betraying Clem to save herself. Jane never traveled with Kenny as long as Clem did. Who's she to call him a time bomb given the things he's seen and had to go through? She let her own sister die! Kenny's wife killed herself after what happened to Duck! But because he doesn't treat a bandit with respect after attempting to rob and kill them, Kenny's the one she's worried about...
Let’s not pretend Kenny was a saint here.
I never said Kenny was no problem.
He gave Jane, Luke, and Bonnie a reason to act th… moree way he did. Their actions didn’t result from nothing. Kenny set them off. They were all good people until he turned them ugly. They wouldn’t have done the things they had done had Kenny not pushed them to the edge.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's? You really seem to justify the fact that Luke, Bonnie, Mike and even Jane (Despite threatening him not to come back) have every right to defend a shitbird who set up an ambush on the group, steal their supplies and almost killed them. My Clementine didn't even rob him and he still came and screw us up.
Good people? Since when was Bonnie a good person? She is one of the worst traitors in the whole series. She had been betraying her friends since 400 Days. Bonnie had ZERO problems leaving Clem b… [view original content]
Yes. After you left the trailer park, you walked back to the rest of the group with Jane & Luke who both hold you responsible for Sarah's death. "You could've saved her" or "you didn't try" after repeatedly convincing you to leave her behind the entire time. What a role model.
That's not correct. Luke says after the fact "I didn't think you'd leave her." Then Jane points out that Sarah was never going to make it. Skim to the 37 minute mark.
Yes. After you left the trailer park, you walked back to the rest of the group with Jane & Luke who both hold you responsible for Sarah'… mores death. "You could've saved her" or "you didn't try" after repeatedly convincing you to leave her behind the entire time. What a role model.
No, but because Lee was the one that loved and cared for Clem the most out of all characters in twd, and is the reason Clem is alive for this long and can take care of AJ in the first place. Plus the fact that he died for that made it an even bigger impact on Clem. Even the walking dead Wikia describes Lee as Clementine's biggest influence and majority of the community would agree on that.
Again, it shows the disconnect between player and Clem. Personally S4 is looking a lot better because we actually interact with Aj, so Im sure I will end up caring about him. You're really missing the point of "Clem cares about Aj, the player doesnt." Just because Clem cares, doesnt mean we should. To also answer your question, one of the biggest complaints about ANF was players were starting to not enjoy Clem anymore due to her goals and all that jazz. To put it simply Aj is just a plot device who the player does not care for. It is a story, you need to make me care about the baby. Im not going to care about the fictional baby because Im told I have to.
A plot device... This getting really old and annoying quicker than I thought. And since we're being technical about it, if Clem cares so muc… moreh about this plot device-liability of a child, then screw her. Why should you go on playing as her? There's no doubt about her compassion towards him, and it looks final to me. So why continue to put up with this story? And all I continue to see is, no screen time, no dialogue, no real reason to care, but because she cares - we have to. Referring to @CarverDidNothingWrong...
Aren't people supposed to care about babies even though they don't talk/have a personality? Isn't that a thing humans do?
Why'd she even feel the need to address it if it was what she wanted Clem to do in the first place? Kind of a guilt trip if you ask me. But I know you don't know for sure, maybe I should ask Jane...
That's not correct. Luke says after the fact "I didn't think you'd leave her." Then Jane points out that Sarah was never going to make it. Skim to the 37 minute mark.
"Clem cares about Aj, the player doesnt." Just because Clem cares, doesnt mean we should.
Okay this here. I can understand this. We have the right to not care for him and all, but why the urge for him to die? And be abandoned at birth? What's that obsession?
Again, it shows the disconnect between player and Clem. Personally S4 is looking a lot better because we actually interact with Aj, so Im su… morere I will end up caring about him. You're really missing the point of "Clem cares about Aj, the player doesnt." Just because Clem cares, doesnt mean we should. To also answer your question, one of the biggest complaints about ANF was players were starting to not enjoy Clem anymore due to her goals and all that jazz. To put it simply Aj is just a plot device who the player does not care for. It is a story, you need to make me care about the baby. Im not going to care about the fictional baby because Im told I have to.
Again, it shows the disconnect between player and Clem. Personally S4 is looking a lot better because we actually interact with Aj, so Im su… morere I will end up caring about him. You're really missing the point of "Clem cares about Aj, the player doesnt." Just because Clem cares, doesnt mean we should. To also answer your question, one of the biggest complaints about ANF was players were starting to not enjoy Clem anymore due to her goals and all that jazz. To put it simply Aj is just a plot device who the player does not care for. It is a story, you need to make me care about the baby. Im not going to care about the fictional baby because Im told I have to.
"Clem cares about Aj, the player doesnt." Just because Clem cares, doesnt mean we should.
Okay this here. I can understand this. We … morehave the right to not care for him and all, but why the urge for him to die? And be abandoned at birth? What's that obsession?
And her flashbacks were all about Aj. Clem in ANF has a ton of problems, but one of them was definitely how disconnected the player felt with Clem's goal of wanting Aj (for atleast a good chunk of people)
Atleast a majotiry of people understood why Clem would go after him. Clem being distant on the fact that AJ could be alive wouldn't make sense in the story.
And her flashbacks were all about Aj. Clem in ANF has a ton of problems, but one of them was definitely how disconnected the player felt with Clem's goal of wanting Aj (for atleast a good chunk of people)
You seem to think so on account of you pointing out every single one of Jane’s wrong doings without taking a look at your friend’s in retrospect. Did you forget about the time he suggested Lee let Beatrice get eaten by walkers instead of putting her out of her misery, just so him and Lee could scavenge the pharmacy for 20 seconds longer? How about that time he dropped a salt lick on Larry's head without giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was passed out on the ground? What about the time he let Shawn die when he easily could've helped Lee clear the walkers? What about that time he got Walter, his own friend killed when he refused to back down to Carver? That's 3 people he let die, and one he killed himself.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's?
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when Arvo and his russian contingent showed up. The only person that was there during the “robbery” on Arvo was Clementine, and depending on your actions you can either choose to take the medicine or return it. If you returned his medicine(which you did), he still tried robs the Cabin Group even though Jane is the one he wants. What does that say about his character?
Since when was Bonnie a good person?
The moment she helped the Cabin group escape when she clearly could’ve told on them, the time she gave Clementine the ugly ass jacket Tavia roasted when she could’ve easily have given to another kid, the time she kept Luke’s whereabouts a secret when she easily could’ve informed her coworkers. Her killing Leland’s wife Dee was a complete mistake and you know it. Yeah she blames Clem for not saving Luke, which is inexcusable, and yes, she told Carver about the Lodge group, but she tried to right her wrongs wherever she could. Even if it wasn’t enough to be forgiven for, she still did right wherever she could.
Worse is that she leaves Clem and AJ behind because of stupid decision she (Jane) has made in Episode 4, not even leaving a note with an apology or telling them what to do.
She was obligated to live by them so long as they were alive? Was her sticking around after coming back, despite all the bad things that happened, not enough? She left and still came back just for Clementine. She didn't have to.
Telling me to leave my friends behind was never an advice, it's just a reason to make you one of the worst humans in the world.
Her telling Clementine to leave all the people who eventually died in the end because they easily could've dragged her down with them makes her one of the worst people in the world? Jane was right to tell Clementine to leave them. Look what the fuck happened to them. Not a single one of them(including Jane, ironic) were all dead by the end of S2. Clementine could've saved herself the pain of loss being with them costed her.
It's her fault Sarah died at the deck.
IT'S SARAH'S OWN FUCKING FAULT THAT STUPID BITCH DIED! HAD HER DUMBASS LISTENED TO JANE WHEN SHE TRIED TO LIFT ALL THAT DEBRIS FROM OFF HER BACK, SHE COULD'VE BEEN ALIVE TODAY! BUT NOOOOOOOOOO, HER STUPID ASS WAS LIKE "oMg mY dAD's dEaD" THE WHOLE FUCKING TIME AFTER CARLOS' DEATH! HAD SHE KEPT HER PSYCHOTIC HEAD IN THE GAME, SHE COULD'VE LIVED.
Let’s not pretend Kenny was a saint here.
I never said Kenny was no problem.
He gave Jane, Luke, and Bonnie a reason to act th… moree way he did. Their actions didn’t result from nothing. Kenny set them off. They were all good people until he turned them ugly. They wouldn’t have done the things they had done had Kenny not pushed them to the edge.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's? You really seem to justify the fact that Luke, Bonnie, Mike and even Jane (Despite threatening him not to come back) have every right to defend a shitbird who set up an ambush on the group, steal their supplies and almost killed them. My Clementine didn't even rob him and he still came and screw us up.
Good people? Since when was Bonnie a good person? She is one of the worst traitors in the whole series. She had been betraying her friends since 400 Days. Bonnie had ZERO problems leaving Clem b… [view original content]
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when Arvo and his russian contingent showed up. The only person that was there during the “robbery” on Arvo was Clementine, and depending on your actions you can either choose to take the medicine or return it. If you returned his medicine(which you did), he still tried robs the Cabin Group even though Jane is the one he wants. What does that say about his character?
Not Jane's fault?!? What? She literally peer pressured Clementine into robbing Arvo to get his medicine. You really think she wanted to steal and share it amongst everyone else?! If you do, I have a majestic unicorn for sale just for you buddy. Pressuring a child to rob an innocent person's meds while holding him a gunpoint speaks volumes! The only reason they came back for blood was because of Jane's greedy ass. If they would've stayed hidden, that entire scene wouldn't even exist! Instead she turned into what she really is and put the entire groups life at risk! THEN she abandons them without a word like she's known for doing, to go lone wolf ranger. So what does THIS really say about that character?!
Her telling Clementine to leave all the people who eventually died in the end because they easily could've dragged her down with them makes her one of the worst people in the world? Jane was right to tell Clementine to leave them. Look what the fuck happened to them. Not a single one of them(including Jane, ironic) were all dead by the end of S2. Clementine could've saved herself the pain of loss being with them costed her.
You're missing the point. What Jane is teaching Clem is to think only about yourself, be self centered, and have no care for other human life. Lee didn't teach her any of that. You know why? Because that's not how a civil person is supposed to act. How'd she know everyone would eventually die? For all she knew they could've survived for the longest. Without her help! When you're alone in the apocalypse you make an easy target. Jane must've forgotten that bit of advice. Hell even Luke told Clem, that the most important thing in life is "Family".
IT'S SARAH'S OWN FUCKING FAULT THAT STUPID BITCH DIED!
Not cool man. Not cool. She was helpless down there. And there was time.
I never said Kenny was no problem
You seem to think so on account of you pointing out every single one of Jane’s wrong doings withou… moret taking a look at your friend’s in retrospect. Did you forget about the time he suggested Lee let Beatrice get eaten by walkers instead of putting her out of her misery, just so him and Lee could scavenge the pharmacy for 20 seconds longer? How about that time he dropped a salt lick on Larry's head without giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was passed out on the ground? What about the time he let Shawn die when he easily could've helped Lee clear the walkers? What about that time he got Walter, his own friend killed when he refused to back down to Carver? That's 3 people he let die, and one he killed himself.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's?
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when… [view original content]
You really think she wanted to steal and share it amongst everyone else?! If you do, I have a majestic unicorn for sale just for you buddy.
JESUS, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
Watch this. From 1:46 through 2:08. Still think she wanted it all for herself? If so, I have a celestial gopher for sale just for YOU, friendo.
Pressuring a child to rob an innocent person's meds while holding him a gunpoint speaks volumes!
It's a dog eat dog world.
What Jane is teaching Clem is to think only about yourself, be self centered, and have no care for other human life. Lee didn't teach her any of that. You know why? Because that's not how a civil person is supposed to act.
Look where that got him. Had Jane took off after escaping Howe's rather than sticking with everyone else, she'd be alive.
For all she knew they could've survived for the longest.
But they did not.
Without her help!
They would've been eaten the moment they stepped out of Howe's had it not been for Jane's camouflaging technique.
When you're alone in the apocalypse you make an easy target. Jane must've forgotten that bit of advice.
It's funny you say that considering Jane survived as long as she did on her own, and only died because she chose to stick around others. Look at Molly, she ran solo and was doing great. She only faced real danger when she tagged along with Lee & friends.
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when Arvo and his russian contingent showed up. The only pe… morerson that was there during the “robbery” on Arvo was Clementine, and depending on your actions you can either choose to take the medicine or return it. If you returned his medicine(which you did), he still tried robs the Cabin Group even though Jane is the one he wants. What does that say about his character?
Not Jane's fault?!? What? She literally peer pressured Clementine into robbing Arvo to get his medicine. You really think she wanted to steal and share it amongst everyone else?! If you do, I have a majestic unicorn for sale just for you buddy. Pressuring a child to rob an innocent person's meds while holding him a gunpoint speaks volumes! The only reason they came back for blood was because of Jane's greedy ass. If they would've stayed hidden, that entire scene wouldn't even exist! Instead s… [view original content]
People hate AJ? I havent been on the forums in a long time, and we barely interact with him in the demo. I find that surprising, seems like an inoffensive kid
Did you forget about the time he suggested Lee let Beatrice get eaten by walkers instead of putting her out of her misery, just so him and Lee could scavenge the pharmacy for 20 seconds longer?
She was dead anyway. What difference does it make? It's not Kenny's fault she got into trouble in the first place.
How about that time he dropped a salt lick on Larry's head without giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was passed out on the ground?
So you're not okay with Kenny worrying about his friends that are about to get eaten by a walker in a locked room? They had no weapons. A man with a heart attack would have been a huge risk unless you had medical supplies around.
What about the time he let Shawn die when he easily could've helped Lee clear the walkers?
It's not Kenny's fault Shawn left the keys of the tractor in the ignition. Hell, Duck didn't even volunteer sitting on the tractor, Shawn offered him to.
What about that time he got Walter, his own friend killed when he refused to back down to Carver?
So you're upset because Kenny tried to save his friends. It's not his fault Carver went after Clem's group in the first place.
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when Arvo and his russian contingent showed up. The only person that was there during the “robbery” on Arvo was Clementine, and depending on your actions you can either choose to take the medicine or return it. If you returned his medicine(which you did), he still tried robs the Cabin Group even though Jane is the one he wants. What does that say about his character?
Yeah, it's not Jane's fault when she is the one who stole his gun. Arvo still uses the same dialogue whether you robbed him or not, like Clementine is the one who stole from him. He could have just said "Clem, where is your friend that took my gun?". Also, Arvo still tried to steal from me EVEN IF DIDN'T ROB HIM.
The moment she helped the Cabin group escape when she clearly could’ve told on them, the time she gave Clementine the ugly ass jacket Tavia roasted when she could’ve easily have given to another kid, the time she kept Luke’s whereabouts a secret when she easily could’ve informed her coworkers. Her killing Leland’s wife Dee was a complete mistake and you know it. Yeah she blames Clem for not saving Luke, which is inexcusable, and yes, she told Carver about the Lodge group, but she tried to right her wrongs wherever she could. Even if it wasn’t enough to be forgiven for, she still did right wherever she could.
That doesn't change the fact that she chooses to leave her friends (400 Days PCs) behind and join a community that could have been full of bad people, she didn't even know anyone who lived there, she was just easily convinced when Tavia told her about her settlement.
If Bonnie didn't betray the Cabin Group in Episode 2, many lives would have been saved like Alvin, Rebecca, Carlos, Sarah and Luke because no one gets tortured by Carver, no one gets eaten through a herd of walkers and Rebecca gets no trouble from giving birth of her baby. If anything, it's Bonnie's fault most of the main characters died. She is easily one of the worst TWD characters, don't even ask.
She was obligated to live by them so long as they were alive? Was her sticking around after coming back, despite all the bad things that happened, not enough? She left and still came back just for Clementine. She didn't have to.
I'm talking about Jane's decision in A New Frontier Episode 1.
IT'S SARAH'S OWN FUCKING FAULT THAT STUPID BITCH DIED! HAD HER DUMBASS LISTENED TO JANE WHEN SHE TRIED TO LIFT ALL THAT DEBRIS FROM OFF HER BACK, SHE COULD'VE BEEN ALIVE TODAY! BUT NOOOOOOOOOO, HER STUPID ASS WAS LIKE "oMg mY dAD's dEaD" THE WHOLE FUCKING TIME AFTER CARLOS' DEATH! HAD SHE KEPT HER PSYCHOTIC HEAD IN THE GAME, SHE COULD'VE LIVED.
Your use of caps makes me think I should not take you seriously at all. Sarah had PTSD, that comes from Carlos' decision of sheltering her all these years in the apocalypse and not teaching how to survive, you really think it's easy for everyone to escape that situation? She was like Clem before she was taught how to survive in Season 1. Her second death is still Jane's fault because that shitbird distracted Luke from doing his job. Don't forget that it's also her fault for getting pregnant in A New Frontier, causing her own death.
I never said Kenny was no problem
You seem to think so on account of you pointing out every single one of Jane’s wrong doings withou… moret taking a look at your friend’s in retrospect. Did you forget about the time he suggested Lee let Beatrice get eaten by walkers instead of putting her out of her misery, just so him and Lee could scavenge the pharmacy for 20 seconds longer? How about that time he dropped a salt lick on Larry's head without giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was passed out on the ground? What about the time he let Shawn die when he easily could've helped Lee clear the walkers? What about that time he got Walter, his own friend killed when he refused to back down to Carver? That's 3 people he let die, and one he killed himself.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's?
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when… [view original content]
Lol. I don't see how y'all can hate the boy already, jeez. To me, his story just began and from the demo, he doesn't seem like a bad kid. Not entirely a liability or dead weight as some consider him. I've been waiting for some interaction between Clem and AJ for a while, so I'm looking forward to it like its a new game.
Don't you dare Lee has far more meaning to Clem then Jane's worthless ass. Had she been with Jane the entire time, she'd grow up to be a little shit!
But they did not.
But they could've.
They would've been eaten the moment they stepped out of Howe's had it not been for Jane's camouflaging technique.
I don't remember Luke learning this "technique". So how'd he get all the way to Howe's without it? Even though I didn't like him, they could've definitely helped each other, without Jane's help. You know Jane wasn't this gift from God right?
and only died because she chose to stick around others.
No that was karma in funny way. Cause the whole time she protested how much Clem should follow her. And if by some ridiculous way you chose to, Howe's goes to shit. And she ups a kills herself because she knows without a group she can't handle her baby on her own. So she pusses out.
You really think she wanted to steal and share it amongst everyone else?! If you do, I have a majestic unicorn for sale just for you buddy.
… more
JESUS, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
Watch this. From 1:46 through 2:08. Still think she wanted it all for herself? If so, I have a celestial gopher for sale just for YOU, friendo.
Pressuring a child to rob an innocent person's meds while holding him a gunpoint speaks volumes!
It's a dog eat dog world.
What Jane is teaching Clem is to think only about yourself, be self centered, and have no care for other human life. Lee didn't teach her any of that. You know why? Because that's not how a civil person is supposed to act.
Look where that got him. Had Jane took off after escaping Howe's rather than sticking with everyone else, she'd be alive.
For all she knew they could've survived for the longest.
But they did not.
Without her help!
They w… [view original content]
Man you'd be surprised the amount of hate this kid gets just for "not talking" or people whining for not seeing him enough on screen. It's ridiculous man. That's mostly why I made this thread, to hopefully show people how similar Clem & AJ are, questioning if their opinions still stand. Shockingly enough, I'm the crazy one! Lol.
People hate AJ? I havent been on the forums in a long time, and we barely interact with him in the demo. I find that surprising, seems like an inoffensive kid
Your use of caps makes me think I should not take you seriously at all
Whether you take me seriously or not is of no concern to me. I didn't beg you to argue with me
So you're not okay with Kenny worrying about his friends that are about to get eaten by a walker in a locked room? They had no weapons. A man with a heart attack would have been a huge risk unless you had medical supplies around.
So if Larry had crushed Duck's skull back when he accused him of being bitten, that would've been ok because he was worried for his daughter?
Yeah, it's not Jane's fault when she is the one who stole his gun. Arvo still uses the same dialogue whether you robbed him or not, like Clementine is the one who stole from him. He could have just said "Clem, where is your friend that took my gun?". Also, Arvo still tried to steal from me EVEN IF DIDN'T ROB HIM.
Then take that up with Arvo, not Jane. He saw she wasn't there yet still launched the ambush on them.
That doesn't change the fact that she chooses to leave her friends (400 Days PCs) behind and join a community that could have been full of bad people, she didn't even know anyone who lived there, she was just easily convinced when Tavia told her about her settlement.
What exactly are you smoking as we're having this tit-for-tat argument?
She clearly told him to come, yet he refuses, and chooses to stay. What the fuck was she supposed to do? Get killed along with him??? Also, had anyone knew how Carver truly was before joining Howe's, they wouldn't have joined. They were terribly misinformed.
I'm talking about Jane's decision in A New Frontier Episode 1.
The suicide? Yeah, I know. She doesn't owe it to them to live by them. If she wanted to kick the bucket, she had every right to. She did bring Clem and AJ back to a place with a roof over their heads, walls to keep them safe, and it had food left over. She taught Clementine how to get by as well. She did good before signing out.
It's not Kenny's fault Shawn left the keys of the tractor in the ignition. Hell, Duck didn't even volunteer sitting on the tractor, Shawn offered him to.
He still could've helped Lee save Shawn. All it would've took was a helping hand and he would've lived. He let that boy die.
Did you forget about the time he suggested Lee let Beatrice get eaten by walkers instead of putting her out of her misery, just so him and L… moreee could scavenge the pharmacy for 20 seconds longer?
She was dead anyway. What difference does it make? It's not Kenny's fault she got into trouble in the first place.
How about that time he dropped a salt lick on Larry's head without giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was passed out on the ground?
So you're not okay with Kenny worrying about his friends that are about to get eaten by a walker in a locked room? They had no weapons. A man with a heart attack would have been a huge risk unless you had medical supplies around.
What about the time he let Shawn die when he easily could've helped Lee clear the walkers?
It's not Kenny's fault Shawn left the keys of the tractor in the ignition. Hell, Duck didn't even volunteer sitting on the tractor, Shawn offered him… [view original content]
They just can't be satisfied man. And when they finally get something they want, it isn't good enough. It's annoying. I'm looking forward to TFS as well. Hopefully we can put this conversation to rest in a few weeks.
Lol. I don't see how y'all can hate the boy already, jeez. To me, his story just began and from the demo, he doesn't seem like a bad kid. No… moret entirely a liability or dead weight as some consider him. I've been waiting for some interaction between Clem and AJ for a while, so I'm looking forward to it like its a new game.
Don't you dare Lee has far more meaning to Clem then Jane's worthless ass.
No argument here.
Had she been with Jane the entire time, she'd grow up to be a little shit!
Uhhhh.....did you see the way she turned out in ANF???? She was pretty shitty without Jane's influence
I don't remember Luke learning this "technique". So how'd he get all the way to Howe's without it?
He came before the hurd got there.
You know Jane wasn't this gift from God right?
I always saw her as a zombie apocalypse 101 survival DVD brought to life.
No that was karma in funny way
No. Had she went her separate way after leaving Howe's, she never would've gotten the chance to get close to Luke, they wouldn't have fucked, and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant.
It's a dog eat dog world.
Get them before they get you?
Look where that got him.
Don't you dare Lee has far more mean… moreing to Clem then Jane's worthless ass. Had she been with Jane the entire time, she'd grow up to be a little shit!
But they did not.
But they could've.
They would've been eaten the moment they stepped out of Howe's had it not been for Jane's camouflaging technique.
I don't remember Luke learning this "technique". So how'd he get all the way to Howe's without it? Even though I didn't like him, they could've definitely helped each other, without Jane's help. You know Jane wasn't this gift from God right?
and only died because she chose to stick around others.
No that was karma in funny way. Cause the whole time she protested how much Clem should follow her. And if by some ridiculous way you chose to, Howe's goes to shit. And she ups a kills herself because she knows without a group she can't handle her baby on her own. So she pusses out.
So if Larry had crushed Duck's skull back when he accused him of being bitten, that would've been ok because he was worried for his daughter?
There is a difference between being covered in blood and having a heart attack.
She clearly told him to come, yet he refuses, and chooses to stay.
Because she didn't care about his loss, told him to forget about Dee and move on. It's Bonnie's fault for not using the best words.
She did bring Clem and AJ back to a place with a roof over their heads, walls to keep them safe, and it had food left over.
How can one person be able to take care of a huge building? There might have been more doors open and some thieves or bandits could easily sneak up, steal Clem's supplies and maybe kill her. What if the herd came back and surround her?
She did good before signing out.
Leaving them behind without leaving a note and hanging up were definitely good decisions. What if the rope cut off and Jane jumped on Clementine? She knew about walkers coming from non-brain deaths and she didn't think about preventing herself from becoming one.
Your use of caps makes me think I should not take you seriously at all
Whether you take me seriously or not is of no concern to me. … moreI didn't beg you to argue with me
So you're not okay with Kenny worrying about his friends that are about to get eaten by a walker in a locked room? They had no weapons. A man with a heart attack would have been a huge risk unless you had medical supplies around.
So if Larry had crushed Duck's skull back when he accused him of being bitten, that would've been ok because he was worried for his daughter?
Yeah, it's not Jane's fault when she is the one who stole his gun. Arvo still uses the same dialogue whether you robbed him or not, like Clementine is the one who stole from him. He could have just said "Clem, where is your friend that took my gun?". Also, Arvo still tried to steal from me EVEN IF DIDN'T ROB HIM.
Then take that up with Arvo, not Jane. He saw she wasn't there yet … [view original content]
Uhhhh.....did you see the way she turned out in ANF???? She was pretty shitty without Jane's influence
Then twice as worse had she been with Jane.
He came before the hurd got there.
Still, even Carver's group needed an entire truck to get from the cabin to Howe's. I'm assuming Luke didn't fly over there. Hell he was tired when he finally arrived at Howe's! Jane really isn't some super mastermind survivor you guys make her out to be. She's just another normal asshole that says things you've never heard before.
I always saw her as a zombie apocalypse 101 survival DVD brought to life.
Jesus, Dex. Does she like shoulder rubs or back rubs more?
Had she went her separate way after leaving Howe's, she never would've gotten the chance to get close to Luke, they wouldn't have fucked, and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant.
No, I'm talking about after S2. The flashbacks when she hung herself.
Don't you dare Lee has far more meaning to Clem then Jane's worthless ass.
No argument here.
Had she been with Jane the entir… moree time, she'd grow up to be a little shit!
Uhhhh.....did you see the way she turned out in ANF???? She was pretty shitty without Jane's influence
I don't remember Luke learning this "technique". So how'd he get all the way to Howe's without it?
He came before the hurd got there.
You know Jane wasn't this gift from God right?
I always saw her as a zombie apocalypse 101 survival DVD brought to life.
No that was karma in funny way
No. Had she went her separate way after leaving Howe's, she never would've gotten the chance to get close to Luke, they wouldn't have fucked, and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant.
Comments
The problem with ANF is that out of nowhere it started off with new characters with a new playable character (Javi) that nobody asked for. Most of the game you play as Javi and we almost never play as Clem, they could've at least balanced it when you play as Javi and Clem. ANF we should've been playing as Clem the whole time and we're with Kenny or Jane (Depending on your choice in S2) and we're taking care of AJ. Actually, how awesome would it be if you could play as Clem some episodes and Kenny/Jane other episodes?
Well, at least you didn't call him a liability!
And completely off topic, but if you do decide to abandon Sarah - granting Jane's wish, she blames you for NOT CARING. Can you believe that? Jane of all people.
I don't remember that. I recently replayed the collection and Jane never blamed Clem for that.
Having Clem playable would've boosted ANF's perception amongst fans as a whole. Thinking about it now, I think Telltale experimented with ANF to see how fans would react having nothing to do with her. Didn't go so well lol.
I doubt it.
I never said Kenny was no problem.
So you say it's Kenny's fault for Arvo's ambush on the group in Episode 4 and not Jane's? You really seem to justify the fact that Luke, Bonnie, Mike and even Jane (Despite threatening him not to come back) have every right to defend a shitbird who set up an ambush on the group, steal their supplies and almost killed them. My Clementine didn't even rob him and he still came and screw us up.
Good people? Since when was Bonnie a good person? She is one of the worst traitors in the whole series. She had been betraying her friends since 400 Days. Bonnie had ZERO problems leaving Clem behind without any supplies, her hatred on Kenny is not an excuse, she can even blame you for Luke's death despite all that being her own fault.
Jane? Yeah, leaving a baby in a frozen car that could get him killed definitely makes her a good person. Worse is that she leaves Clem and AJ behind because of stupid decision she (Jane) has made in Episode 4, not even leaving a note with an apology or telling them what to do. Telling me to leave my friends behind was never an advice, it's just a reason to make you one of the worst humans in the world. It's her fault Sarah died at the deck.
Of course not, I wouldn't even go as low as to toss him to the walkers as bait either. Ideally, I'd have given him to a community who welcomes and are fully capable and supplied for raising children.
She's projecting, that's for sure.
Did you save Sarah? I remember her saying something along the lines of "You didn't even try". Not in a cold way, more shockingly.
Are u sure that was Jane who said that?
My point exactly.
And some still find her the most suitable to travel with! If it ever came down to it, Jane wouldn't think twice about betraying Clem to save herself. Jane never traveled with Kenny as long as Clem did. Who's she to call him a time bomb given the things he's seen and had to go through? She let her own sister die! Kenny's wife killed herself after what happened to Duck! But because he doesn't treat a bandit with respect after attempting to rob and kill them, Kenny's the one she's worried about...
Yes. After you left the trailer park, you walked back to the rest of the group with Jane & Luke who both hold you responsible for Sarah's death. "You could've saved her" or "you didn't try" after repeatedly convincing you to leave her behind the entire time. What a role model.
That's not correct. Luke says after the fact "I didn't think you'd leave her." Then Jane points out that Sarah was never going to make it. Skim to the 37 minute mark.
No, but because Lee was the one that loved and cared for Clem the most out of all characters in twd, and is the reason Clem is alive for this long and can take care of AJ in the first place. Plus the fact that he died for that made it an even bigger impact on Clem. Even the walking dead Wikia describes Lee as Clementine's biggest influence and majority of the community would agree on that.
Again, it shows the disconnect between player and Clem. Personally S4 is looking a lot better because we actually interact with Aj, so Im sure I will end up caring about him. You're really missing the point of "Clem cares about Aj, the player doesnt." Just because Clem cares, doesnt mean we should. To also answer your question, one of the biggest complaints about ANF was players were starting to not enjoy Clem anymore due to her goals and all that jazz. To put it simply Aj is just a plot device who the player does not care for. It is a story, you need to make me care about the baby. Im not going to care about the fictional baby because Im told I have to.
Why'd she even feel the need to address it if it was what she wanted Clem to do in the first place? Kind of a guilt trip if you ask me. But I know you don't know for sure, maybe I should ask Jane...
Clem's eyes would've bleed if she could read some of your comments guys.
Okay this here. I can understand this. We have the right to not care for him and all, but why the urge for him to die? And be abandoned at birth? What's that obsession?
Players wasn't, not enjoying Clem because of her goal to get AJ back but the lack of her story being turned into flashbacks
Just a vocal minority.
And her flashbacks were all about Aj. Clem in ANF has a ton of problems, but one of them was definitely how disconnected the player felt with Clem's goal of wanting Aj (for atleast a good chunk of people)
...
Right on then.
Atleast a majotiry of people understood why Clem would go after him. Clem being distant on the fact that AJ could be alive wouldn't make sense in the story.
You seem to think so on account of you pointing out every single one of Jane’s wrong doings without taking a look at your friend’s in retrospect. Did you forget about the time he suggested Lee let Beatrice get eaten by walkers instead of putting her out of her misery, just so him and Lee could scavenge the pharmacy for 20 seconds longer? How about that time he dropped a salt lick on Larry's head without giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was passed out on the ground? What about the time he let Shawn die when he easily could've helped Lee clear the walkers? What about that time he got Walter, his own friend killed when he refused to back down to Carver? That's 3 people he let die, and one he killed himself.
It’s neither Jane’s nor Kenny’s fault for the ambush. Jane wasn’t even with them when Arvo and his russian contingent showed up. The only person that was there during the “robbery” on Arvo was Clementine, and depending on your actions you can either choose to take the medicine or return it. If you returned his medicine(which you did), he still tried robs the Cabin Group even though Jane is the one he wants. What does that say about his character?
The moment she helped the Cabin group escape when she clearly could’ve told on them, the time she gave Clementine the ugly ass jacket Tavia roasted when she could’ve easily have given to another kid, the time she kept Luke’s whereabouts a secret when she easily could’ve informed her coworkers. Her killing Leland’s wife Dee was a complete mistake and you know it. Yeah she blames Clem for not saving Luke, which is inexcusable, and yes, she told Carver about the Lodge group, but she tried to right her wrongs wherever she could. Even if it wasn’t enough to be forgiven for, she still did right wherever she could.
She was obligated to live by them so long as they were alive? Was her sticking around after coming back, despite all the bad things that happened, not enough? She left and still came back just for Clementine. She didn't have to.
Her telling Clementine to leave all the people who eventually died in the end because they easily could've dragged her down with them makes her one of the worst people in the world? Jane was right to tell Clementine to leave them. Look what the fuck happened to them. Not a single one of them(including Jane, ironic) were all dead by the end of S2. Clementine could've saved herself the pain of loss being with them costed her.
IT'S SARAH'S OWN FUCKING FAULT THAT STUPID BITCH DIED! HAD HER DUMBASS LISTENED TO JANE WHEN SHE TRIED TO LIFT ALL THAT DEBRIS FROM OFF HER BACK, SHE COULD'VE BEEN ALIVE TODAY! BUT NOOOOOOOOOO, HER STUPID ASS WAS LIKE "oMg mY dAD's dEaD" THE WHOLE FUCKING TIME AFTER CARLOS' DEATH! HAD SHE KEPT HER PSYCHOTIC HEAD IN THE GAME, SHE COULD'VE LIVED.
Not Jane's fault?!? What? She literally peer pressured Clementine into robbing Arvo to get his medicine. You really think she wanted to steal and share it amongst everyone else?! If you do, I have a majestic unicorn for sale just for you buddy. Pressuring a child to rob an innocent person's meds while holding him a gunpoint speaks volumes! The only reason they came back for blood was because of Jane's greedy ass. If they would've stayed hidden, that entire scene wouldn't even exist! Instead she turned into what she really is and put the entire groups life at risk! THEN she abandons them without a word like she's known for doing, to go lone wolf ranger. So what does THIS really say about that character?!
You're missing the point. What Jane is teaching Clem is to think only about yourself, be self centered, and have no care for other human life. Lee didn't teach her any of that. You know why? Because that's not how a civil person is supposed to act. How'd she know everyone would eventually die? For all she knew they could've survived for the longest. Without her help! When you're alone in the apocalypse you make an easy target. Jane must've forgotten that bit of advice. Hell even Luke told Clem, that the most important thing in life is "Family".
Not cool man. Not cool. She was helpless down there. And there was time.
JESUS, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
Watch this. From 1:46 through 2:08. Still think she wanted it all for herself? If so, I have a celestial gopher for sale just for YOU, friendo.
It's a dog eat dog world.
Look where that got him. Had Jane took off after escaping Howe's rather than sticking with everyone else, she'd be alive.
But they did not.
They would've been eaten the moment they stepped out of Howe's had it not been for Jane's camouflaging technique.
It's funny you say that considering Jane survived as long as she did on her own, and only died because she chose to stick around others. Look at Molly, she ran solo and was doing great. She only faced real danger when she tagged along with Lee & friends.
People hate AJ? I havent been on the forums in a long time, and we barely interact with him in the demo. I find that surprising, seems like an inoffensive kid
She was dead anyway. What difference does it make? It's not Kenny's fault she got into trouble in the first place.
So you're not okay with Kenny worrying about his friends that are about to get eaten by a walker in a locked room? They had no weapons. A man with a heart attack would have been a huge risk unless you had medical supplies around.
It's not Kenny's fault Shawn left the keys of the tractor in the ignition. Hell, Duck didn't even volunteer sitting on the tractor, Shawn offered him to.
So you're upset because Kenny tried to save his friends. It's not his fault Carver went after Clem's group in the first place.
Yeah, it's not Jane's fault when she is the one who stole his gun. Arvo still uses the same dialogue whether you robbed him or not, like Clementine is the one who stole from him. He could have just said "Clem, where is your friend that took my gun?". Also, Arvo still tried to steal from me EVEN IF DIDN'T ROB HIM.
That doesn't change the fact that she chooses to leave her friends (400 Days PCs) behind and join a community that could have been full of bad people, she didn't even know anyone who lived there, she was just easily convinced when Tavia told her about her settlement.
If Bonnie didn't betray the Cabin Group in Episode 2, many lives would have been saved like Alvin, Rebecca, Carlos, Sarah and Luke because no one gets tortured by Carver, no one gets eaten through a herd of walkers and Rebecca gets no trouble from giving birth of her baby. If anything, it's Bonnie's fault most of the main characters died. She is easily one of the worst TWD characters, don't even ask.
I'm talking about Jane's decision in A New Frontier Episode 1.
Your use of caps makes me think I should not take you seriously at all. Sarah had PTSD, that comes from Carlos' decision of sheltering her all these years in the apocalypse and not teaching how to survive, you really think it's easy for everyone to escape that situation? She was like Clem before she was taught how to survive in Season 1. Her second death is still Jane's fault because that shitbird distracted Luke from doing his job. Don't forget that it's also her fault for getting pregnant in A New Frontier, causing her own death.
Lol. I don't see how y'all can hate the boy already, jeez. To me, his story just began and from the demo, he doesn't seem like a bad kid. Not entirely a liability or dead weight as some consider him. I've been waiting for some interaction between Clem and AJ for a while, so I'm looking forward to it like its a new game.
Did no one notice the subliminal message I was trying to subconsciously drill into his brain
?
@SargeantMario101
Get them before they get you?
Don't you dare
Lee has far more meaning to Clem then Jane's worthless ass. Had she been with Jane the entire time, she'd grow up to be a little shit!
But they could've.
I don't remember Luke learning this "technique". So how'd he get all the way to Howe's without it? Even though I didn't like him, they could've definitely helped each other, without Jane's help. You know Jane wasn't this gift from God right?
No that was karma in funny way. Cause the whole time she protested how much Clem should follow her. And if by some ridiculous way you chose to, Howe's goes to shit. And she ups a kills herself because she knows without a group she can't handle her baby on her own. So she pusses out.
Man you'd be surprised the amount of hate this kid gets just for "not talking" or people whining for not seeing him enough on screen. It's ridiculous man. That's mostly why I made this thread, to hopefully show people how similar Clem & AJ are, questioning if their opinions still stand. Shockingly enough, I'm the crazy one! Lol.
Whether you take me seriously or not is of no concern to me. I didn't beg you to argue with me
So if Larry had crushed Duck's skull back when he accused him of being bitten, that would've been ok because he was worried for his daughter?
Then take that up with Arvo, not Jane. He saw she wasn't there yet still launched the ambush on them.
What exactly are you smoking as we're having this tit-for-tat argument?
She clearly told him to come, yet he refuses, and chooses to stay. What the fuck was she supposed to do? Get killed along with him??? Also, had anyone knew how Carver truly was before joining Howe's, they wouldn't have joined. They were terribly misinformed.
The suicide? Yeah, I know. She doesn't owe it to them to live by them. If she wanted to kick the bucket, she had every right to. She did bring Clem and AJ back to a place with a roof over their heads, walls to keep them safe, and it had food left over. She taught Clementine how to get by as well. She did good before signing out.
He still could've helped Lee save Shawn. All it would've took was a helping hand and he would've lived. He let that boy die.
They just can't be satisfied man. And when they finally get something they want, it isn't good enough. It's annoying. I'm looking forward to TFS as well. Hopefully we can put this conversation to rest in a few weeks.
I agree, I think if Telltale went this route, ANF would be received better.
No argument here.
Uhhhh.....did you see the way she turned out in ANF???? She was pretty shitty without Jane's influence
He came before the hurd got there.
I always saw her as a zombie apocalypse 101 survival DVD brought to life.
No. Had she went her separate way after leaving Howe's, she never would've gotten the chance to get close to Luke, they wouldn't have fucked, and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant.
Aw shit, you caught me. How bout adding me on Discord, and I'll show you just how much I really hate Eleanor.
There is a difference between being covered in blood and having a heart attack.
Because she didn't care about his loss, told him to forget about Dee and move on. It's Bonnie's fault for not using the best words.
How can one person be able to take care of a huge building? There might have been more doors open and some thieves or bandits could easily sneak up, steal Clem's supplies and maybe kill her. What if the herd came back and surround her?
Leaving them behind without leaving a note and hanging up were definitely good decisions. What if the rope cut off and Jane jumped on Clementine? She knew about walkers coming from non-brain deaths and she didn't think about preventing herself from becoming one.
Then twice as worse had she been with Jane.
Still, even Carver's group needed an entire truck to get from the cabin to Howe's. I'm assuming Luke didn't fly over there. Hell he was tired when he finally arrived at Howe's! Jane really isn't some super mastermind survivor you guys make her out to be. She's just another normal asshole that says things you've never heard before.
Jesus, Dex. Does she like shoulder rubs or back rubs more?
No, I'm talking about after S2. The flashbacks when she hung herself.