What Could've Made The Final Season Better?
I wish TFS was more violent. Sure it is pretty gruesome at some parts, but I wish there could've been more. Like Kenny killing Carver and Michonne letting Norma die is the kinda brutality I love in the Walking Dead. I would've absolutely loved to see more of that in TFS. I wanted to see Clem rip some fucking throats out. Let's say her leg wasn't fucked up but got bit regardless. It would've been so badass to see her killing Walkers barehanded. Ripping Walker's spines out through their throats is the shit I would've loved to see Clem do. Whenever AJ is in danger - Clem just goes S5 Rick on their asses.
EDIT: A scene I would've liked to see would be Violet vs. Minerva. I would've loved for Clem and Violet to show affection for each other in front of Minerva - just to rub it in her face. Clem and Violet vs. Minerva. I also would've enjoyed more partnered fights. We had Clem and AJ vs. Abel. I wanted to see more of that with different characters. We got a lot of Clem vs. ___. But I would've enjoyed seeing the kids fight along side Clem against Lilly or Minerva. Kinda like Kratos and Atreus vs. Baldur.
What do you think TFS was lacking that would've made it more memorable? Be specific. Saying, "A good plot" or "Strong characters" doesn't really tell us anything. Explain what you wanted to see, why you wanted to see it, and how it would've made TFS better.
I feel like Done Running and Suffer the Children were fine. For Broken Toys I wish we just had more scenes with Lily. You know? Like a one and one between her and Clementine. Through this dialogue we find out what happened to her after she took off/left behind back in S1. I would scrap the scene where Minerva admits she killed Sophie, only to make Lily redeemable. You can say what you want about Lily, but S1 Lily was not cruel, just hard like Clementine said in Take Us Back. I wouldn’t have made her determinate. She lives no matter what, along with James. They had a lot of opportunities to explore Lily’s disappearance in S1, but they just didn’t. In Take Us Back, the delta group should’ve been hunting down Clementine’s group for the first part. Maybe one final stand off between Lily and Clem, where Lily finally just leaves Clementine and her group alone and let’s them escape. Redeeming her character. I don’t know, I just feel like they completely butchered Lily’s character this season. Of course I would add more depth to people like Omar and Aasim. Ruby too.
A tighter focus on character drama would've been especially welcome. An example would be the dynamics set on in Season One : Kenny's continued hammering on Lilly's established leadership. While I wouldn't want it to be necessarily revisited, ( Violet vs Louis wouldn't work that way lol could you just imagine ) characters that would've been in direct conflict with other characters were nearly instantly killed when that conflict was finally out in the open.
Marlon dies within minutes of it being revealed that he decided to allow Minnie and Sophie to be captured allowing neither Tenn nor Violet any prolonged conflict the likes we'd seen in Season One with him or Brody, who also died. Brody's betrayal would've been as explosive as the conflict with Marlon as Brody had been close with the other girls prior to this. The same can be said of encountering Minnie. There's no moment where she's faced with Tenn, nor really has an on-screen moment with Violet with the sort of visceral reaction you'd expect from people.
They could've also included a focus on leadership, which was lost to the vote of Clementine and AJ leaving the group. There's a sense that while these kids have been together for a long time, it was held together largely by Marlon. I could see Mitch contesting Violet for leadership, and even Aasim suggesting himself.
Outside of character drama, the action sequences felt repetitive. It's likely due to the length of the sections, and that it's essentially down to kick the walker/whack the walker/rinse and repeat. They touched a little bit on using environmental traps that could've developed into something more interesting throughout the series and having environmental kills that could be used. Mixing it up would've helped with the length of the sections.
It needed a good plot and strong characters obviously
A bigger budget.
This guy/gal gets it.
Overall I would have preferred a focus on our own group rather than it turning into another boring and generic us vs them plot line for the 3rd season in a row. Season 1 worked so well because it focused mainly on conflicts within your group, not another one. Sure Season 1 had "antagonist" but they were never the driving force of the entire game or super major, the focus was still mainly on how your group deals with problems presented.
I feel like thats why episode 1 was so good. It focused on our group and conflicts within it, not the us vs the Delta.
I'd want a bigger focus on other characters like episode 1 seemed like it was going to. Everyone else became so flat after episode 1. Give more downtime to invest a little time with each character, asking them how they are doing, ect like the episode 1 hub.
I would probably take the story itself in a more different direction and would try to go for 5 episodes if it was possible money wise. Keep that whole "isolated group" feeling but with knowledge from Marlon for example, that there are more forces out there looking for them. Structure the episodes more like season 1 where there can even be an episode that can practically be stand alone from the rest like Staved for Help was just to flesh out the school and characters more for a one off encounter they have that although it doesn't serve the overarching plot that much, it does a ton more for becoming more attached to characters and learning more about them. It would just help expand the world.
After that I would then bring in the Delta but also their other group they are fighting. Make it actually feel like we are stuck in a war zone between these two groups. Have both groups approach the school trying to get recruits, cause drama within our group about what the kids want to do, temporary align with one of them, or just go against both of them. Make the finale more about defending your home from the war path these 2 groups so you can live, or then even opening up multiple endings by if you joined one of the groups if it meant you would be left alone after the battle or fought both of them off. And go all out with the war path shit, go insane, give a group a helicopter or something, just go out on it.
And lastly just more references. Little references go a long way and makes playthroughts more unique. Also give pay off to past events to finally happen. For example it would have been a very satisfying moment to finally tell AJ about all of our past with him now that he was old enough to be told like Kenny asked us to. Callbacks like that to finally happen are powerful, but we got nothing like that, which is disappointing as hell. Its the Final Season, it should feel like the ending to all seasons not just this one season, which is what Season 4 ep 4 felt like to me, not an ending to the series as a whole, but just a season ending.
Saving Minerva should’ve been Determinat along with better character development from Omar,Tenn and Aasim and I guess Willy...I believe Lily’s roll was brilliant but her small role in (Take US Back) was kinda like repeating (Long Road ahead) mixed with (No Time Left)....nut over all my criticism is up to a 30% because I still believed that Clementine should’ve been Determinat even though her smile at the end was so up lifting .
I love your comment. Your idea with Lilly was something I would have also likes to see. Just Clem and Lilly in a room. No threats, no guns. Just talking.
Dammit. I said don't say this. Or at least if you do, tell us what you would've liked to see. Please be specific. Scenes you wish we got or scenes you wished would've been tweaked.
Please be more specific. Scenes you would've liked to see. Characters you wanted to act differently. Anything like that.
Probably more scenes with Lilly, I think most people would have liked that. It also would have been nice to get to know some of the school kids better. I thought Episode 1 and 2 were very good with this, but it kind of faded off in that regard.
I was joking
Alright i'll try to keep this short and sweet,the things that i wish The Final Season had :
A bigger budget i think we can all agree on that.
more screentime for Lilly i think that's also something we can all pretty much agree on.
More references Kenny Jane fucking Chet whatever after Episode 1 they kinda stopped trying.
More conflict between characters
And after 3 fucking games i wish the writers just learned from their mistakes, after EP1
you can notice the same flaws the other games had and it's honestly annoying,that after all this time they haven't learned a damn thing. And we can't blame everything on the budget.
They should've went back and see what made the first season so good,what the game did right and what S2 and S3 did wrong and improve on all that or something.
Maybe i'm wrong but when i see how they handled Lilly's character overall i feel like these guys had no fucking idea of what type of character Lilly was and never played the first season lmao
I think my suggestions might honestly make it a more dull game for people but it’s genuinely what I’d like. I’d have liked more preparation for this being a permanent home. Solving the food problem, which wasn’t really solved, probably by going looking for better hunting areas or fishing areas. Even more fortifying the school. Scouting well beyond their safe zones to be sure that, yep, they really are remote.
And through those, just feeling out those character dynamics and relationships.
Might sound odd given the series we’re talking about but one thing I did like about TFS is that it feels more optimistic and much less traumatic. So personally I was happy to pull back on the violence but, to trade that off, I’d have liked even more by way of nice little character moments. I think many players would have ended the season with a feeling of WTF but if I had played through the whole season that was just those characters chatting and getting to know each other while setting up what we feel is truly a permanent home, I’d have liked that.
We got Violet shooting Minerva to save Clem at least?
And I would've liked an extra standalone-ish episode on the same vein as Starved for Help to develop the side characters more and get us more attached to them and the school, probably taking place during the episode 2 timeskip, but I get they were struggling on budget. At least we didn't get 3 episodes like TWAU2 was going to have.
Would've made everything better, more hubs, more branching, more lily scenes, better focus on side characters, probably discovered the story and went to the delta and it's war, and a lot more you get it by now.
I would've loved this also. It's a shame that so much of the survival element was stripped away from the narrative when it could've been a huge part of it.
Some elements that would've been great to see in the episodes --
Your ideas sound like Mass Effect complicated
Holy shit, some actual good ideas!
It's not complicated, which part about it seems complicated? The last idea I can see your stance but apart from that it doesn't seem to go beyond what Telltale was capable of doing.
I'd like to take that as a compliment, but then I remember playing Andromeda....
I feel that this could work just as well if Clem was the leader instead (which could also make it easier to write a story for).
You'd have different situations which allow you to pick who should do what.
Something like we had in Season 1 Episode 5 (when the zombies were coming in and you had to tell each character what they should do), but obviously on a larger scale and with bigger repercussions.
I don't mean in a bad way. But a single choice having multiple consequences was something M.E did well. If I were CEO of Telltale I would've had choices have long term effects.
I'd considered it, but with her and AJ being outsiders that have only spent 2 days there I thought there should be a natural objection to that. It could be argued that because of her survival skills outside for so long that they decide to make her leader after Marlon's downfall. It'd cut down on different character dialogue if there's an expense issue.
If they'd actually have 5 episodes in the game, they could use the first two episodes (and a time skip of course) to make her transition to a leader much more natural. That doesn't mean that in the first two episodes you wouldn't have any important choices to be made, however. You could be able to vouch for certain people to become a temporary leader, until it turns out later on that Clementine is the most suitable one.
More areas to explore. For example, there was an unused area in the game with a big metal bridge. It would've been cool if the story took place there at some point.
Also more areas to explore in the school and around it, including being able to free roam from the school all the way to Lilly's boat.
I think the last two episodes should've had more crazy decisions too. Like being able to join Lilly's cause then having to prove your loyalty by killing one of your group members, AJ included.
Having an original character be the acting Big Bad.
There is an argument to that statement. While some would enjoy a new villian, they way Lilly was presented - a new Gillian would've had less screen time than Carver. So we couldn't really connect to a new character all that much. Plus, some hardcore Lilly fans would be preaching on how they should have brought her back if she wasn't included in TFS to begin with. Can't make everyone happy - especially on forum pages.
I really would have liked more variety in areas to explore.
However that unused bridge is most likely the beta bridge in episode 4.
If Gillian had been the Big Bad, the writer's might've actually tried.
She was the big bad. Her actions led to the death of Minnie, Sophie, Marlon, Mitch, Brody, Tenn/Lou/Vi. Plus, Clem almost died. All because of Lilly.
All things that another antagonist could've done.
Sure, but you said a new bad guy would've been better than Lilly, but Lilly was pretty good at fucking shit up for our protagonists.
...So what you're saying is...any bad guy would've worked?
No. I'm saying Lilly was a good bad guy because she fucked up the Ericson kids more than anyone. Abel or Minerva couldn't have done that. Lilly is the better villain because she's the only one who doesn't get her ass kicked by 17-year-old
Why couldn't Abel or Minerva do what Lilly did? Because they got their asses kicked by 17-year-old. It's amazing they lasted ad long as they did.
I think he's saying that anyone could be written not to be beaten by a bunch of kids. It didn't have to be Lilly. I think the adults being beaten so easily by Home Alone tactics was a huge disservice myself. These people were supposed to be at war with another community.
Being at war in no way implies that they were equipped or smart enough to win that war. Or any war. They were desperate enough to try to take kids even after they fought back. Personally I reckon the second they lost a guy, that fight was no longer worth it because they had more to lose than gain. But you could read into that that they were absolutely desperate. Desperation rarely makes people smarter.
That's the sensible response I've heard in a while.
And it's more or less right too.
The counter to my own argument though is that Minerva chose to stay. Now you can assume a certain level of conditioning I guess but it does suggest that the situation in the Delta might actually be pretty good. I don’t know.
I guess we’re not really given all that much information to go on so there is a lot of speculation involved.