The TMI plot explained in a nutshell
So working with the help of Kroms's bullet points, I have worked out what I think to be the Grand Backstory behind TMI. Master Plans and all are revealed here! SPOILERS AHEAD!
PLEASE NOTE: This is a REVISED version of the original post, in which I have modified my theories to incorporate things pointed out by fellow forum members.
Ahem.
Comments?
NEW EDIT: After input from commenters, I've rewritten this so it's somewhat more plausible. People have pointed out that I thought Elaine knew far too much, and I think they're right!
PLEASE NOTE: This is a REVISED version of the original post, in which I have modified my theories to incorporate things pointed out by fellow forum members.
Ahem.
So some time before Narwhal, Guybrush gets the Cursed Cutlass of Kaflu recipe from the Voodoo Lady. (One of the dialogue options on first meeting her in Narwhal is "That cutlass recipe you gave me was a dud!" though Guybrush never says it out loud.)
However, this Cursed Cutlass would inevitably, when used, fail to kill LeChuck. Even if Guybrush hadn't tampered with the recipe, it would still fail because he isn't attacking LeChuck while he's crossing between worlds. This is intentional on the Voodoo Lady's part.
The Voodoo Lady desires to keep Guybrush and LeChuck eternally at each other's throats. By the end of Rise, she possesses Guybrush's poxed hand and an essence of LeChuck, which combined are enough to resurrect BOTH of them, if either should die, thus continuing the cycle infinitely. (Remi Olsen has pointed out that she was already seen shipping voodoo supplies to LeChuck in MI2!)
Elaine does NOT know at first that the Cutlass of Kaflu is destined to fail, since she tries to use it herself on LeChuck at the finale of Rise. Nor does she know yet that, to kill LeChuck, you need the help of someone standing on the other side of the Crossroads. (Guybrush has to tell her this in Rise.)
However, by the end of Rise she clearly believes that the Voodoo Lady is up to no good. The feeling is mutual. In the seagull scene in Rise, the Voodoo Lady calls Elaine a "loose cannon" who "does not trust in Voodoo." She's telling a half-truth in this last statement: Elaine does in fact trust Voodoo, just not the Voodoo Lady's voodoo.
Elaine has probably suspected the Voodoo Lady of nefarious deeds for a while now, since in Rise she says that she first let LeChuck capture her in order to demonstrate this to Guybrush. Most likely, though, she fully grasps how bad the Voodoo Lady is after LeChuck is humanized and the Pox is released.
Once she has been captured, Elaine watches Guybrush use the cutlass on LeChuck, not knowing for certain but half-suspecting it won't work at all, and hoping that Guybrush now realizes that the Voodoo Lady has been lying to him all along. He doesn't, of course.
LeChuck is turned human, and although Elaine knows he is still nasty and evil, she hopes to use him to get at the Voodoo Lady (by, for example, obtaining her diary). She doesn't tell Guybrush, of course. But she is thrown off her guard, and lulled into security, by the evil Voodoo of his belt buckle, and fails to adequately make plans for his eventual betrayal of them in Trial.
Elaine doesn't know yet that LeChuck can only be killed once he is crossing between worlds. But she goes along with LeChuck's plan to "give the monkeys new homes," even though she suspects it's all a lie, at least in order to convince him his disguise is working (as noted, the belt buckle clouds her judgment).
The Pox is released, and then Guybrush turns up with a quest from the Voodoo Lady to go after "La Esponja Grande." This is probably where the pieces all click together for Elaine. Since she knows Human LeChuck is still evil, she is certain that, once La Esponja absorbs all the voodoo energy of the Pox, LeChuck will simply take the sponge and reabsorb the voodoo into himself. She also knows that the Voodoo Lady PLANNED this to happen.
When Guybrush loses his hand to Morgan (and his wedding ring with it), Elaine supplies him with her ring instantly. She doesn't know EXACTLY what he'll need it for, but she DOES know that wedding rings are powerful items in voodoo spells, because of the pure love they represent. She wants Guybrush to be magically protected in case the worst should happen.
Elaine is blindsided by LeChuck killing Guybrush (which she WOULD have foreseen were it not for the demonic belt buckle). She didn't want Guybrush to enter the Crossroads by actually DYING.
Then once Guybrush returns as a ghost, LeChuck announces that the Cutlass of Kaflu is the only weapon that can kill him in the mortal world, and that he has enchanted it so that no mortal can touch it. Elaine is immediately seen going "Hmm!" Her next line after that is to LeChuck: "Make me your demon bride!" or some such.
Elaine obviously decides on the spot to become a demon, so as to get her hands on the Cutlass, and is counting on Guybrush (as she says in the very end of Rise) to restore her afterward, so she can kill LeChuck with the blade. (I guess she expects to keep holding onto it as a demon until she's exorcised!)
In other words, Elaine's master plan was never set in stone, but has had to change in numerous ways, due to unforeseen events. Such events included the Pox being released, or LeChuck surviving as a human, or Guybrush losing his hand, or LeChuck killing Guybrush (a major unforeseen event!), or LeChuck cursing the Cutlass to make it unusable by mortals.
When Guybrush is punted back into the Crossroads by LeChuck, Morgan shows up after an extended absence and stabs him with a new sword. Guybrush asks where she got it but she doesn't answer.
Answer: The Voodoo Lady gave Morgan the sword, in exchange for her retrieving LeChuck's essence after dispatching him. The Voodoo Lady wants to kill LeChuck for the moment, so that Guybrush will be lulled into a false sense of security and think LeChuck is finally truly dead. She knows, however, that if Morgan does her job right, she will soon have the Essence of LeChuck with which to revive the demon pirate at a later date.
LeChuck's plan, of course, is much simpler: Hypnotize the 13 Monkeys of Montevideo and place them at specified locations in the Caribbean, so as to reveal the physical location of the Crossroads in the mortal world, allowing him to crack it open, suck out its energy, and become the Demon Pirate God. Needless to say, his scheme fails until Guybrush unwittingly helps him out.
However, this Cursed Cutlass would inevitably, when used, fail to kill LeChuck. Even if Guybrush hadn't tampered with the recipe, it would still fail because he isn't attacking LeChuck while he's crossing between worlds. This is intentional on the Voodoo Lady's part.
The Voodoo Lady desires to keep Guybrush and LeChuck eternally at each other's throats. By the end of Rise, she possesses Guybrush's poxed hand and an essence of LeChuck, which combined are enough to resurrect BOTH of them, if either should die, thus continuing the cycle infinitely. (Remi Olsen has pointed out that she was already seen shipping voodoo supplies to LeChuck in MI2!)
Elaine does NOT know at first that the Cutlass of Kaflu is destined to fail, since she tries to use it herself on LeChuck at the finale of Rise. Nor does she know yet that, to kill LeChuck, you need the help of someone standing on the other side of the Crossroads. (Guybrush has to tell her this in Rise.)
However, by the end of Rise she clearly believes that the Voodoo Lady is up to no good. The feeling is mutual. In the seagull scene in Rise, the Voodoo Lady calls Elaine a "loose cannon" who "does not trust in Voodoo." She's telling a half-truth in this last statement: Elaine does in fact trust Voodoo, just not the Voodoo Lady's voodoo.
Elaine has probably suspected the Voodoo Lady of nefarious deeds for a while now, since in Rise she says that she first let LeChuck capture her in order to demonstrate this to Guybrush. Most likely, though, she fully grasps how bad the Voodoo Lady is after LeChuck is humanized and the Pox is released.
Once she has been captured, Elaine watches Guybrush use the cutlass on LeChuck, not knowing for certain but half-suspecting it won't work at all, and hoping that Guybrush now realizes that the Voodoo Lady has been lying to him all along. He doesn't, of course.
LeChuck is turned human, and although Elaine knows he is still nasty and evil, she hopes to use him to get at the Voodoo Lady (by, for example, obtaining her diary). She doesn't tell Guybrush, of course. But she is thrown off her guard, and lulled into security, by the evil Voodoo of his belt buckle, and fails to adequately make plans for his eventual betrayal of them in Trial.
Elaine doesn't know yet that LeChuck can only be killed once he is crossing between worlds. But she goes along with LeChuck's plan to "give the monkeys new homes," even though she suspects it's all a lie, at least in order to convince him his disguise is working (as noted, the belt buckle clouds her judgment).
The Pox is released, and then Guybrush turns up with a quest from the Voodoo Lady to go after "La Esponja Grande." This is probably where the pieces all click together for Elaine. Since she knows Human LeChuck is still evil, she is certain that, once La Esponja absorbs all the voodoo energy of the Pox, LeChuck will simply take the sponge and reabsorb the voodoo into himself. She also knows that the Voodoo Lady PLANNED this to happen.
When Guybrush loses his hand to Morgan (and his wedding ring with it), Elaine supplies him with her ring instantly. She doesn't know EXACTLY what he'll need it for, but she DOES know that wedding rings are powerful items in voodoo spells, because of the pure love they represent. She wants Guybrush to be magically protected in case the worst should happen.
Elaine is blindsided by LeChuck killing Guybrush (which she WOULD have foreseen were it not for the demonic belt buckle). She didn't want Guybrush to enter the Crossroads by actually DYING.
Then once Guybrush returns as a ghost, LeChuck announces that the Cutlass of Kaflu is the only weapon that can kill him in the mortal world, and that he has enchanted it so that no mortal can touch it. Elaine is immediately seen going "Hmm!" Her next line after that is to LeChuck: "Make me your demon bride!" or some such.
Elaine obviously decides on the spot to become a demon, so as to get her hands on the Cutlass, and is counting on Guybrush (as she says in the very end of Rise) to restore her afterward, so she can kill LeChuck with the blade. (I guess she expects to keep holding onto it as a demon until she's exorcised!)
In other words, Elaine's master plan was never set in stone, but has had to change in numerous ways, due to unforeseen events. Such events included the Pox being released, or LeChuck surviving as a human, or Guybrush losing his hand, or LeChuck killing Guybrush (a major unforeseen event!), or LeChuck cursing the Cutlass to make it unusable by mortals.
When Guybrush is punted back into the Crossroads by LeChuck, Morgan shows up after an extended absence and stabs him with a new sword. Guybrush asks where she got it but she doesn't answer.
Answer: The Voodoo Lady gave Morgan the sword, in exchange for her retrieving LeChuck's essence after dispatching him. The Voodoo Lady wants to kill LeChuck for the moment, so that Guybrush will be lulled into a false sense of security and think LeChuck is finally truly dead. She knows, however, that if Morgan does her job right, she will soon have the Essence of LeChuck with which to revive the demon pirate at a later date.
LeChuck's plan, of course, is much simpler: Hypnotize the 13 Monkeys of Montevideo and place them at specified locations in the Caribbean, so as to reveal the physical location of the Crossroads in the mortal world, allowing him to crack it open, suck out its energy, and become the Demon Pirate God. Needless to say, his scheme fails until Guybrush unwittingly helps him out.
Comments?
NEW EDIT: After input from commenters, I've rewritten this so it's somewhat more plausible. People have pointed out that I thought Elaine knew far too much, and I think they're right!
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
Elaine is smart but I don't think she has forseen the events that well. Partly, she probably just relied on gut feeling - ie she was sure Guybrush would need the ring, but probably didn't know the details.
I'm not buying into the Voodoo Lady controls everything theory. It's a too simple explanation and as she says herself she's just a pawn in a much bigger game. She certainly meddles with fate, but I believe she has in fact good intentions and there's more at stake as we can see. However, her owning LeChuck in a jar makes me think she has her very own agenda as well. I'm quite convinced she neither wants to resurrect him nor dispose of him but rather needs him for something else - which may be revealed in season 2.
My only problem with it is the Voodoo Lady's plan to eventually bring back LeChuck. Since he knows that she has been using him, she can no longer use him. Thus she helps defeat him and takes his essence for safe keeping along with Guybrushes hand since it has some of LeChuck's voodoo in it. In the process of doing all this she also gets Morgan to fill LeChuck's role as hinted at in the whole Ghost Pirate Hunter Morgan LeFlay.
But that's mostly just my opinion.
Again well done!!!
Seriously, we already got the mystery behind MI2 ending, why adding other mayhem to the mayhem?
The things ATMachine wrote could've been explained at the end of Rise of the Pirate God. THAT would have made Rise REALLY shine.
As it is, I can't get Telltale's strategy on the final (?) episode.
He's tired of being led around, and let's face it, he's gotten the hardest and worst end of the deal. He's become an evil foul sadistic monster all because of her meddling, and he has every right to be angry.
Wait, what? When does this happen?
Its laying on her desk/table in the post-credits scene, its only visible briefly.
Awesome! This should be a sticky
I don't think the Voodoo Lady was actually in complete control of both LeChuck and Guybrush all the time. Instead she just sort of gives things a nudge to keep them going in the right direction (ie. in a circle). Also, the MI2 ending isn't really much of a mystery, it seems to me like it was made pretty clear with the post-credits scene with Elaine that Guybrush was just under some spell of LeChuck's.
Although I noticed a lot of the plot points the author noted, I failed to construct it as coherently as he did. In other words, I had no earthly idea what the fuck was going on in Episode 5.
Did anyone else feel the same way, or am I just an idiot?
Edit: If this is accurate, which I am fairly certain it is, then it should be stickied.
Now the question is... Why is she interested in an eternal fight? What's good for her in it? What's bad for her if it ends?
And I'm still thinking she thought Guybrush needed the ring, but didn't know exactly when or how. >: )
EDIT: This post was full of speculation I have since had to revise. Sorry!
The secret of Monkey Island was in that box on the thief's table. Pity it got destroyed by the sponge.
So very true it makes perfect sense.
What about at the beginning of the game when in the voodoo Lady's hut you see a chest, was that LeChuck's chest with the informass Belt buckle?
The Voodoo lady believes, according to everything we know, that there's some type of order to things in the world in which everyone plays a part and takes part in roles, fulfilling certain events---as we see in the cards--ie, Guybrush the Hero, Elaine the Lover, the pox is the Curse, etc.
She also doesn't think she can change these things, because everything is set in fate, so she doesn't try to. It's not that she's 'neutral' like people say, she just knows the limits of her own role, because she understands herself as part of a bigger picture. She does heavily help Guybrush in this game, and doesn't appear to help LeChuck, which shows she isn't necessarily neutral. Its not clear if she ever helped LeChuck at all, and remember she says to Guybrush something like 'goodness was never in his path', which means she believes LeChuck would have done evil no matter what.
However, she does play her own role in this scheme of things. She gives her guidance and advice to those who see her, good or evil. So whether its Guybrush who comes to see her or LeChuck, she gives the the best guidance she can give, and lets them make their own choices. If Guybrush comes to see her, she also knows she can rely on him and also help her gain Voodoo items. If LeChuck were ever to see her, she would know that he would make her life miserable, so would do whatever was necessary to deal with him and get him on his way. She would work with him, just to the degree that LeChuck would think that nothing is a problem and believe she's cooperating, so he would leave her alone.
People have mentioned the shipping crates to LeChuck in MI2. First you have to remember that the shipping crates ended up helping Guybrush go to his fortress and defeat him--so its not clear that the Voodoo lady was helping LeChuck--but may have been helping Guybrush. As far as it bears on any relationship with LeChuck---she may have agreed to ship those things to him to placate him and prevent him from bothering her--at the same time that she knew that the shipment would help Guybrush go to defeat him.
I think when the Voodoo lady says 'Elaine doesn't trust voodoo' it essentially means Elaine believes in free will, and not fate. She believes the Voodoo lady has choices and does things that ends up creating this cycle; empowering LeChuck only to have Guybrush destroy him later. That's completely opposed to the way the Voodoo lady thinks of things; she believes all of these things are fated.
ATMachine, excellent work. I also ask for this topic to be stickied.
Yeah, I'm really surprised more people don't ask this. Even if it's true she gave the ring to Guybrush without entirely knowing the use it would be, still, how did she even have an idea about that? But then again, in the SMI for instance, Elaine has always had more idea about everything than Guybrush... So maybe she's always had a big amount of knowledge of voodoo, even before Guybrush met her. Or perhaps she has a connection with Voodoo Lady in some way, and there's actually another reason why she doesn't trust her.
And I do believe Voodoo Lady will bring LeChuck back from the Lechuck Juice, because I simply can't imagine a Monkey Island game without him!
And perhaps all these intrigues will eventually lead back onto Monkey Island again in the next season?
I think also the Cutlass was supposed to work. The Vodoo Lady is pretty mad when Guybrush failed to present her the esscence of LeChuck trapped in the cutlass (wich is at the end made by Morgan)
I also think that at the end Elaine is holding an uncharged Cutlass so its just like a normal sword and she cant kill Lechuck with just that. And even if it was charged he is a pirate god now, not the same Lechuck from the beggining, and that requieres a different and more complex way of killing him.
oh yeah! just say it now. didnt notive it before.
hmm. i wonder if telltale will make another TMI season. i hope so. i wonder what the voodoo lady is planing.
Interesting point about the Cutlass. Maybe I'm going senile, but I seem to remember the Voodoo lady saying after she saw Guybrush for the first time that he needed to give her the Cutlass so Le Chuck could be purged. That seems to indicate that her goal was to obtain the Essence of Le Chuck, presumably so that she could continue the endless cycle of conflict.
Elaine seemed pretty certain in Episode 1 that the Cutlass would work, and seemed surprised when it failed, so she presumably she assumed that the cutlass would work. Even Le Chuck was baffled when he was transformed into a human.
It seems to me that the quest for Le Esponja Grande was set up by the Voodoo lady as a Plan B of sorts. Since the Cutlass failed, Le Chuck's essence had to be sucked into the sponge, although it is uncertain what her plan with the sponge was from that point on.
Also keep in mind that episode 5, where we finally learn about most of this stuff, was the one which had the most input by Ron Gilbert. Plus, Elaine was the character whose treatment in TMI Ron gave the most advice about (I recall reading this in an interview somewhere).
TMI is clearly bringing back Magnificent Bastard Elaine from MI1. Remember in that game you've spent much of it trying to rescue her and putting together a voodoo recipe for defeating LeChuck. But when you finally confront him, not only has she already rescued herself and planted a decoy, she's also obtained a jar of ghost-destroying voodoo root beer on her own! Clearly she has some knowledge of this sort of thing already.
EDIT: this part was based on speculation I have since revised. Oops!
That's not a magnificant bastard, that's a heroine who can take care of herself. In MI 1, Guybrush was on a fool's errand. If he never existed, Elaine would have made it out of her predicament just fine -maybe even better.
As far as I see it, a PROPERLY enchanced Cutlass of Kaflu should damage both body and spirit (no crossing between worlds needed). But Cutlass of Kaflu was far from properly enchanced (Guybrush with his last-second substitutes and LeChucks other doings), so it could only damage his body. The Voodoo Lady gave Morgan a sword which has Cutlass' of Kaflu missing function, but due to some... complications... (the Spirit sword being in one world, the Body sword in another), they had to strike at the same time, which is impossible while LeChuck is in one world, hence the trapping-inbetween-worlds stuff.
And I think that Elaine developed a distrust in Voodoo and Voodoo Lady in particular during ToMI, not before it. Maybe "Is THAT how the Cutlass is supposed to work?" was the beginning of this distrust.
To say that Elaine learned a lot about Voodoo in between TMI and EMI is a cop out. If that were true, then it would have been mentioned at some point during the adventure. We can only assume that Elaine's knowledge of voodoo has not increased. Maybe TOMI season 2 will confirm that theory but we'll have to wait until then.
What does Ron Gilbert have to do with anything? Sure he gave some input into TOMI but it's not like his influence makes your theory any more valid. In terms of Elaine obtaining voodoo root beer, I think you forget that Guybrush finally destroys LeChuck at the end of Secret with plain root beer from the vending machine. She hardly needed advanced knowledge of voodoo to spray ghosts with normal root beer.
Elaine did not know that Le Chuck had to be killed in between worlds, Guybrush has to tell her. She clearly had little knowledge of what Le Chuck had planned. Elaine could have given the ring to Guybrush for many different reasons - maybe she gave the ring to Guybrush to trick Le Chuck into thinking that he was succeeding in slowly seducing her, which clearly was a goal of his from early on in the adventure. At the end of Episode 1, Elaine was looking disinterested, but immediately became happy when Le Chuck showed up. She clearly was acting in front of him. She was following along, and she may have thought that her ring was inconvenient. This theory is not likely, but it is about as plausible as your theory.
But Elaine obviously has come to despise the Voodoo Lady by Rise. She must have realized that the Voodoo Lady is up to no good at SOME point. Plus, she mentions in two scenes that the Esponja Grande quest with Nice Human LeChuck was all for Guybrush's benefit. Most likely, Elaine figured out that, once La Esponja Grande (which the Voodoo Lady had told Guybrush to obtain) had absorbed all the Pox, then LeChuck would simply steal the sponge and absorb its voodoo power. She knew that the Voodoo Lady must know this, too.
Elaine also gives Guybrush her ring. She knows it'll be important for something. But what? Even if she doesn't know Guybrush has to "cross over" to kill LeChuck, she probably DOES at least know that wedding rings would have major protective significance in voodoo spells, given the powerful love they embody. She wanted Guybrush to be magically safe should anything happen to him. As it indeed did.
EDIT: Hey guys, I updated the first post with this revised theory, so go have another look!
But what if Morgan had never went after Guybrush's hand in chapter 4 and still lived? That'd have left LeChuck vs. Guybrush alone in the afterlife. How Guybrush would have killed Lachuck? He was barely able to move as a zombo. I doubt Elaine expected him to kill Lechuck just like that. Or am I missing something essential?
Revised version is pretty good. Can't see many flaws in it.