the ending is confusing me
i understand guybrush conveniently ending up on the narwhal and elaine expecting that.
she was just waiting at the crossroads-spot at the real world and expecting guybrush to come through the rip again. she had no idea that guybrush might have problems reopening it.
but why was he dezombified and got his hand back?
she was just waiting at the crossroads-spot at the real world and expecting guybrush to come through the rip again. she had no idea that guybrush might have problems reopening it.
but why was he dezombified and got his hand back?
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That is the commonly accepted interpretation. I still think it's convoluted but a lot of people disagree with me.
Yea.. just a bit.
Simple, poignant, and ties things up nicely for continued adventures with a completely alive Guybrush for ToMI Season 2!
He was resurrected.
Voodoo power only allows the spirit to go inside the living's world, while the "non voodoo" way (through true love) gives the user a full resurrection. Actually it could probably work without Guybrush's body, his spirit was materialized. Thus destroying the dead body (zombie).
The first time he performed the spell, he used Voodoo ingredients. The second time, he used the same ingredients as symbolized by the wedding ring. He replaced Voodoo with love, which was more powerful. The Voodoo Lady outright says that he can return to his "true form" by utilizing a power greater than any Voodoo, though she doesn't know what/can't comment on what it is.
It's a really sappy solution, but executed so well that most people will feel it's organic, natural, and heartwarming. Others will try to tear it apart into mechanical workings and rules, which doesn't work, because that's not what was meant. And yet even then, it fits into the series "better ingredients=better spell" dynamic. And if you think "magic did it" is stupid storytelling, you are in the wrong series. Why does root beer kill ghosts? Why are there ghosts? Why can LeChuck come back from ghost death as a zombie? Many puzzles in tales make you assume that it will work because the paper you receive say "This Works Because Magic", and you accept this.
That reminded me alot of harry potter. That's old magic.
Not really. ToMI is not just a simple comedy - if that were the case, then the tone never would have changed as dramatically as it did. Guybrush went from not caring when his hand got chopped off in Chapter 2, to vowing to kill DeSinge for murdering Morgan in chapter 4. ToMI became a much more serious game, so I take the ending much more seriously. Secret always struck me as more of a comedy, same as the other games in the series, so I don't analyze them in any detail.
In any case it's clearly a matter of opinion - some like the ending, others don't.
You could also ask why is it that even though his hand is back, that there is jar of liquid LeChuck suspending his old poxed hand on the voodoo lady's desk... But thats a silly question to ask when we've already been given the ultimate explanation: The mysterious powers of Nor Tribleg triggered on the crossroads by Guybrush's love for Elaine was powerful enough to give him a new body and reunite them. No other questions need to be asked.:p
Yeah sure, it seems too simple considering every other aspect of the over arching manipulation/eternal fate plot was much, much, much more needlessly complex than this. But that's what makes it so darn good. This is the end of the game, you don't have to think any more, just let it all go and accept it for what it is. More questions to be answered in Season 2. After all, it is much much easier to write sequels when you leave an ending open rather than leave things concluded. Unless it's MI2, in which case Ron Gilbert is the only one capable of writing a sequel, after all he is the only person that knew what was going on with that ending. And leaving room for speculation makes for great discussion, just look at how the forum buzzes because of it.
Remember, gimmicks compliment good writing. Now if you excuse me, I'm going to go hide before I get attacked by a horde of raging three headed monkeys.
I think it was not Guybrush's hand in the jar, but rather LeChuck's belt buckle. The thief guy stole it from Guybrush, and Morgan must have stolen it from him.
Remember in Monkey Island 2 where you build a voodoo doll of Largo, but the ingredients aren't quite optimal, so it works but only just?
Well, the first time you complete the voodoo spell, with the gold anchor, the dog, Morgan etc. you are using less than optimal ingredients because mostly they're just things you found lying around, rather than anything of any personal significance. So you get to return to the land of the living, but only as a ghost, and it causes other problems.
Think of the wedding ring as the ultimate ingredient to that spell, the one that not only embodies each of the four ingredients, metaphorically speaking, but does so in a very personal, emotionally significant way. That's why it worked so much better this time round, not only returning Guybrush straight to the living world, but completely to life as well.
I understood this from the moment I had first read the crossroads puzzle. One thing that bugs me about this ending is that I knew the ring was the answer, and yet the game doesn't let you use it until the end. Yes yes, it wasn't the right moment if he had been fully revived at that point he would have just been killed again. But I feel that if the game was going to prevent us from using it till the end, they should have taken it away until then so it wasn't an option. I tried to use the ring and he wouldn't use it, so I felt dumb. But then he uses it at the end and my reaction is "Why didn't you do that in the first place like I told you to!" Seems like a bad puzzle design for the sake of a heart warming moment that I didn't really feel all that strongly about.
Oh, if thats the case then I apologize. I could have sworn it was a hand in the jar. I'm just replaying Chapter 5 now so I'll get to correct all my facts soon enough.
My bad, I have to correct myself again. I'm half way through replaying chapter five and you don't have your ring back until later after he improvises the spell.
I was about to point that.
Anyway, I'm into the "better ingredient" theory, but, I think, THAT is the ingredient. The first one backfires: Instead of bringing Guybrush to live, he open a rip in the reality. Since Guybrush is way more worried about Elaine than himself, he decided to get his body back and strunk the Sponge INSTEAD of try to get alive again. So, he gets back to his body by posess it using the lock. No by getting resurected. How Elaine got to know that is beyond me. (I guess been a newbie also helps in that _ _!)
I think Guybrush's own ring would work as well, but he can't hold the ring in ghost form anyway. So, well, my theory is, if one wants to be ressurrected, he/she has to use the current items of crossroads to open a rip, then use a voodoo locket (which is a rare thing, you know, this is one thing that prevents everyone coming back from afterlife) to get his/her physical form back so that he/she can use a wedding ring as the ingredient of the spell.
The original method that Lechuck used and what we used was actually the fake way of doing it, that's why we were still ghosts/zombies.
edit: Here, from 1:53 onwards, she explains why it has to be THAT ring, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1N5gXEsOdo
edit 2: oooh, watching that, notice how the Voodoo Lady says that LeChuck can never be destroyed and that he'll always come back to bother Elaine and Guybrush. She says that with soo much confidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1N5gXEsOdo#t=1m53s
I'm sure Guybrush's ring would work, at least according to Elaine, considering she was pretty upset when Guybrush lost his ring and gave her when Guybrush lose it and not before that. Remember he was traveling the whole caribean for make the Cutlass of Kaflú; if only Elaine Ring should work under that circunstances, she probably gave to him her ring before the hunt for the Cutlass even began.
Of course there the possibility Elaine discovered that fact when Guybrush was away searching the ingredients for the cutlass or while he was in Flotsam for first time.
Now, I think the Ring do represent the Wedding, which, for the both sides also represent a sacrifice. If you see that in that way, both rings could work.
I think I just leveled up. Thank you.
As GinnyN said, a wedding ring represents those 4 words for BOTH sides of the bond, so I thought it would work... well, until I remembered that Elaine's ring was a special one from Curse of the Monkey Island. So it makes it practically impossible for someone other than Guybrush to completely come back to life, which means it's a good explanation.
Well, I'm pretty sure it represents the marriage, not the wedding. I doubt that the spell was powered by frilly dresses, a fancy cake, and overly complex ceremonies and superstitions that have built up over a not insignificant portion of western cultural history.
The difference is that the spell needs a "sacrifice made in [Guybrush's] name". His own wedding band represents the eternity of HIS bond to HER, and vice versa. You can't substitute his sacrifice for someone else.
Notice that Guybrush only recites the spell when putting the ring in the crossroads. Notice that nothing is ever said about the ring's "special" nature from Curse. Notice that the dialogue you're citing from Curse is mostly side-dialog from a game 10 years old.
The only meaning invoked here was that of the wedding ring as his wedding ring.
I'm looking at left.
I'm looking at the ceiling.
I'm looking at right.
WHAT. EVER.
Noone mentions it, okay, but it looks like that ring and there is a continuum, so I assume that it's the same ring, and judging by the unusual nature of this ring I say there is something to do with it. They may wanted not to mention about it to add a big emphasis on the "marriage" thing, but still. I just want to give Guybrush an explanation of why his condition differs from other people who are married. So that it can't be like "woo I'm married, so let's use this ring and BAAM I'm alive" for everyone.
The ring that Guybrush stole from the smugglers was just an ordinary ring that was of equal size to the (now gone)cursed ring. There is nothing special about Elaine's ring except for it's huge.
Except that's not how it works. First of all, I'm fairly certain that he needed Elaine's ring to represent her sacrifice for him, and most people don't die with their spouse's wedding ring on them. And, if we say both rings would work just fine:
-Not everyone has a Voodoo spell cheat sheet
-Not every marriage would work. Considering a >50% divorce rate and what I can only assume is a fairly high rate of bitter marriages, not every wedding band would work.
-Not everyone is a master of wordplay like Guybrush.
-If it doesn't mean that much to you, it's not going to work. The bond between Guybrush and Elaine has been shown to be "true" and "powerful".
-It's a story convention. This conversation is likely analyzing it a good deal more than it deserves to. Stop thinking of it on a wider level of underworld rules and just see it as Guybrush's fate pushing him once again in the "right" direction.
You're wrong about this, actually. The ring used to break the spell was something special in Curse, just look at the video posted earlier in this thread. I just don't think that was considered at all when writing this part of the story.
I don't really buy this. Maybe she didn't know everything but I think "the hunch" would require some knowledge about how the crossroads work, otherwise she might as well have given him her bandana or something. (I almost typed banana, but I guess with this logic it would work too) It doesn't really explain her confidence in him returning either. I mean Guybrush was all "wait is that why you gave me..." and she makes a statement that kind of confirms his suspicion, so at least in the case of the ring she had to know something.
I think like, the usage of the word "wedding" here is not because of not knowing the difference between the words, but being unable to find the exact word for something in a language that you haven't got the grasp of. Happens to me all the time, and thanks to you for pointing the difference. I just wish that you explained it by observing this aspect.
Talking about possibilities of 50% and combining them... Still not enough to decrease the possibilities to "only LeChuck and Guybrush in all mankind".
I kinda think it would cause some inconsistence to just leave it for the sake of having a nice, cute story. I won't lose anything if I can't answer this anyway, but filling the gaps is the only thing for me to do while waiting for Sam and Max to come, so let's leave it be.
Falanca leveled up!
Falanca wants to learn YouTube Link, but Falanca can only learn four moves. Forget a move and learn YouTube Link?
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Yes, I did just totally rip off VG Cats.
A pretty important fact is also I'm a native Spanish Speaker and both Marriage and Wedding are translated to the same word in spanish: "Matrimonio" which actually mean the two things at once (Depending of the phrase, of course). So, that could lead I misplaced the word and I was talking about Marriage and not Wedding (At least in my mind _ _!).
In fact me too. But it's still weird for me to think she gave to Guybrush her ring when Guybrush lose his. Maybe is just she believed he will be fine if he still has his ring and, when he lose it, gave her ring as a replacement.
True, but I like to over analyze stuff
In the movie Enchanted, how was
In Kingdom Hearts, when
When WALL-E
In basically any Disney movie, it's the power of love that makes the good ending possible. There just isn't anything else to it.
Basically, love makes the world go round.
Though by that logic, it's hard to say exactly what Kairi is, since as a Princess of Heart she can't become a Heartless, yet she still had a Nobody from near the end of the first game to near the end of the second game. I guess since Naminé came from Kairi's heart leaving Sora's body, I guess you could say that she's part of Kairi but still Sora's Nobody. But that doesn't exactly make sense. Forget the whole thing, Kairi was never a Heartless and Naminé is still her Nobody. And now I've thoroughly confused myself.
Sorry, I picked up 358/2 Days the same day that Pirate God came out, and I'm nearly finished with it now, so I've been thinking about it a lot lately.
I don't think that 50% of people take with them after death a symbol of true love, that embodies a pure sacrifice made in their name. Even so, of those people, how many want to return? How many of them know voodoo? I think it's one of those things you can chalk up to the tides of fate pushing Guybrush along his destiny.
Also, it was only Guybrush. LeChuck used a similar spell to the one Guybrush used the first time. Apparently this spell isn't very widely known outside the limited number of Voodoo practitioners. I think the fact that we haven't seen many ghosts and/or zombies other than LeChuck proves that the spell itself is either not well known at all or that is difficult for most characters to figure out and perform.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong, because I'm nowhere near being a fluent Spanish speaker(I'd call myself barely Spanish-competent, at very best).
But my Spanish-English Dictionary defines them differently. Wedding comes up as "boda", with "marriage" coming up as "matrimonio". The usage notes in my dictionary say that "Boda" is used for the ceremony, and "Matrimonio" is used for the "relationship/state". Is my dictionary wrong in this case? Or is this maybe one of those hard to work with areas of language?
Nope, it was because Kairi's light, which blatantly translate in power of friendship. It really had nothing to do with her being a Princess of Heart. It actually had to be specifically Kairi, someone who Sora could relate to. And it helped a lot that Sora and Kairi really shared a close bond.
So...how 'bout them Crossroads?
The simple explanation would just be "LOVE SAVED US ALL!", whilst some fans will explain that is partially true but the Ring also helped because it's special, and the ring IS special, to summaries it, with it's strong emotional bond and love, it was able to reverse the Curse and turn Elaine back to Human, if applied to Tales, it was able to reverse Guybrush back to the start of the game Deus Ex Machina style!
It can't just be a coincidence, I mean, even looking back at the Voodoo Lady in Curse, her speech about how Guybrush and Lechuck will always fight, Evil can never be destroyed, and how she said it with such confidence and a bit arrogantly. It does feel like the writers played Lechucks Revenge and Curse back to back before writing the story for Tales.
I thought you were gonna say:
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