So if the the sitiation is Doc not living till about 100, then how does that not appply in BttF II? They do say it was because they jumped to the present and over the affects of old Biff changing time. Why is moving forward in time different to moving backward in time?
In Bttf part 2 in Biff-controlled-1985, Doc would have disappeared if he was going to die before the age he is now, but he hasn't travelled in time much yet, only to the future and back twice, getting rejuvinated in his first trip to make him look younger, so he's not dead before his time. But after those events and after he finds clara he does go on a lot of time travel adventures and rejuvenates himself a lot and the same with einstein, so that's why einstein and doc disappeared in episode 2 of the game, as they were too old to live in the alternate timeline. Makes sense to me
In Bttf part 2 in Biff-controlled-1985, Doc would have disappeared if he was going to die before the age he is now, but he hasn't travelled in time much yet, only to the future and back twice, getting rejuvinated in his first trip to make him look younger, so he's not dead before his time. But after those events and after he finds clara he does go on a lot of time travel adventures and rejuvenates himself a lot and the same with einstein, so that's why einstein and doc disappeared in episode 2 of the game, as they were too old to live in the alternate timeline. Makes sense to me
Yes. I think we tend to forget that the last time we saw Doc in BTTF3 he already had two sons, so from his perspective he had already aged some seven years (or so; I can't remember how old Jules and Verne appeared to be) since Marty returned to the future. And judging by what Doc told Marty in episode 1 about him and Clara looking for the best time period to put Jules and Verne in college, even more time must have passed since then. I guess the Doc we see in the game must be at least 15-20 years older than the Doc we see in BTTF2.
We don't know the reason why Lorraine named his third son "Marty", but probably she had a reason before Marty went back in time.
As we learn in Part 3 he's actually named after a great, great uncle from the 1800's. Been awhile since I've seen the third film but if memory serves me Martin McFly had a bit of a temper and was apparently killed in a knife fight prior to 1885.
As a side note Marty is named after BOTH of the McFly brothers from the 1880's: his full name is Martin Seamus McFly according to the BttF Wiki ^_~
Yes. I think we tend to forget that the last time we saw Doc in BTTF3 he already had two sons, so from his perspective he had already aged some seven years (or so; I can't remember how old Jules and Verne appeared to be) since Marty returned to the future. And judging by what Doc told Marty in episode 1 about him and Clara looking for the best time period to put Jules and Verne in college, even more time must have passed since then. I guess the Doc we see in the game must be at least 15-20 years older than the Doc we see in BTTF2.
Easily the most likely explanation and one that people seem to be having trouble with. Marty when compared to Doc has actually spent very little time outside of 1985. From the time the DeLorean left at 1:35 AM on October 26th, 1985 until his final jump back to 11 AM on October 27th, 1985 we see Marty spend a little more 16 days outside of 1985:
-One week in 1955
-Two hours and fifty nine minutes in 2015
-Five hours and forty two minutes in 1985A
-Four more days in 1955
-Five days in 1885
On the other hand we have Doc. While other works seem to have established him as being born in 1920 this game has now set the date to 1914. As far as I'm concerned since the game has the involvement of Bob Gale and has pretty much been written to be Part 4 I'm going with it's age for Doc.
Now at the end of the original movie Doc says "30 years is a good round number" in regards to going to the future. One can assume he went to October 26th, 2015. However since Einstien was in a suspended animation kennel upon Doc's return to 2015 with Marty it seems to suggest he arrived at an earlier date. Finally when you consider everything Doc did in 2015 prior to getting Marty (the rejuv surgery, DeLorean upgrades, ect) then one has to assume he was in 2015 for a considerable amount of time. Also for all we know Doc made other trips along the timestream prior to learning about what happened to Marty's kids. Once you bring 1885 into the mix it gets even more insane. Considering the ages of Doc's sons and the fact that Doc had to reverse engineer the hover board with 19th century tech in order to come up with a new flux capacitor it could have easily taken Doc about 10 years (the wiki even lists a departure date of 1895 which I assume likely came from either the novel of Part 3 or the animated series). That being said if we assume Jules was about 7 or 8 and Vern was about 4 or 5 then we must assume at least another 15 years have passed for Doc from the end of Part 3 to the time we first see him in 1931.
Once all things are considered it's easy to assume that Doc has spent the better part of 25 years living and traveling to various time periods. This puts Doc at about 96 years old. Assuming he got only one rejuv surgery this mean his life expectancy is about 100-110 years. Now since Doc was excited over finding out who would win the next 25 World Series prior to being shot in the original TP timeline one could assume he knew he was near the end of his life and maybe didn't see himself living past 75 (obviously at this point he'd have no way of knowing about the surgery to prolong his life)
As for why Doc disappears instantly it's simple: by not seeing the film Frankenstein along with Young Emmett's encounter with Marty in episode one his outlook on science his changed. As the DeLorean doesn't disappear itself and merely suffers malfuntions we can assume that "Citizen Brown" still comes up with the idea for it but doesn't complete it and doesn't travel to the future. As a result the paradox this creates erases the Doc we know from existance since he cannot be a 96 year old man without the surgery in 2015. He jumped past a critical point in history and upon arrival vanishes.
Now I know what some folks will say: "Sure Enigma....that all makes sense but why didn't this affect Old Biff the same way?" It's simple really. As the younger version of Biff couldn't act instantly on the info it created a ripple effect that protected Old Biff for a short time. The moment the ripple caught up to him that was it. As he jumped past a critical point (in this case 1996) he was no longer compatible with the timeline and vanished.
Finally some of you will say this: "What about Marty/Doc in 1985A in the film? What about 1986A in episode two? 1986B? How do these timelines affect the DeLorean?" As long as nothing has endangered your existance at that paticular point in time you CAN live that timeline and are simply a visitor. 1985A works for Marty because he has obviously still been born. Doc in this case may have gotten lucky. At that point in time he's only spent at the most a year outside the normal flow of time. Granted the 1985A version is in an asylum but as long as he was alive then our Doc is ok since he's pretty much a version of Doc from the future. The DeLorean in 1985A could have been on the verge of fading away for all we know but we never see it happen so it's possible some kind of ripple effect protected it (I for one don't believe it's immune to timeline changes as it's mafunctions at the end of episode two suggest it can indeed be affected). 1986A is a simple one: we know Marty had to leave town but he's alive. As for Doc the events with Edna upon the next trip to 1931 hadn't happened so he's still safe. Hell for all we know the Doc Brown of 1986A left in '85 and is alive and well in 2015 (hence why Doc didn't fade upon arrival here). As for 1986B that already been covered.
Ok......I know this was a long read. Hope it helped things make a bit more sense into the reason why Doc fades away so quickly. However knowing this series it's likely to just raise additional questions.
Time travel can be such a headache at times can't it? XD
As we learn in Part 3 he's actually named after a great, great uncle from the 1800's. Been awhile since I've seen the third film but if memory serves me Martin McFly had a bit of a temper and was apparently killed in a knife fight prior to 1885.
As a side note Marty is named after BOTH of the McFly brothers from the 1880's: his full name is Martin Seamus McFly according to the BttF Wiki ^_~
We find that out in III that Marty's great-great-grandfather's name is Seamus and that Marty had a great-great-uncle named Martin, but we never knew if George and Lorraine decided to name "Marty" after his great-great uncle (it could have been a nice name they liked in the original timeline), being that Marty didn't know about Seamus' brother, he might have not known why he was named "Marty", so it could just be an amazing coincidence. They never mentioned the reason for Marty's name in the original timeline and that timeline is gone since Part I. About "Seamus", probably same situation, but likely George liked his great-grandfather's name.
It's the most-likely explanation, but not the definitive.
About Ripple Effect and Doc's fate: I fully agree.
Finally some of you will say this: "What about Marty/Doc in 1985A in the film? What about 1986A in episode two? 1986B? How do these timelines affect the DeLorean?" As long as nothing has endangered your existance at that paticular point in time you CAN live that timeline and are simply a visitor. 1985A works for Marty because he has obviously still been born. Doc in this case may have gotten lucky. At that point in time he's only spent at the most a year outside the normal flow of time. Granted the 1985A version is in an asylum but as long as he was alive then our Doc is ok since he's pretty much a version of Doc from the future. The DeLorean in 1985A could have been on the verge of fading away for all we know but we never see it happen so it's possible some kind of ripple effect protected it (I for one don't believe it's immune to timeline changes as it's mafunctions at the end of episode two suggest it can indeed be affected). 1986A is a simple one: we know Marty had to leave town but he's alive. As for Doc the events with Edna upon the next trip to 1931 hadn't happened so he's still safe. Hell for all we know the Doc Brown of 1986A left in '85 and is alive and well in 2015 (hence why Doc didn't fade upon arrival here). As for 1986B that already been covered.
I follow and appreciate your logic here. I would like to point out that in 1986A, it's likely that Doc and Marty left town together. Doc would still be a scientist since he would have seen Frankenstine alone and his entry to the Expo would have lost. He may still have invented the flux capacitor, needed plutonium, manipulated the Lybians, asked Marty to film the experiment, and accidently sent him to the past when the Lybians showed up. One of Biff's brothers mentions George knocking Biff out at the dance. I can't imagine the new Tannen timeline would lead George to do this alone, he'd still need "Calvin's" encouragment. Marty would not have ended up in Old Man Peabody's farm, the mall would still be Twin Pine Mall, but other than that, I don't imagine why the events of the first movie would not have played out with the addition of a longer trek for Marty into town to find 1955 Doc who would still be in Hill Valley. The Tannen Brothers were younger than Biff, they might not have even effected the relationship between Biff and George.
Anyway, my point is that the comment about George laying Biff out at the dance leads me to believe that Doc still has a time machine. If he has a time machine, then he still went to the future, got the rejuvination clinic stuff, and then the events of Part II and III would be far different/nonexistent.
Not a hole in your logic, just an alternative . I just can't think of a reason why having a Tannen crime family would prolong Doc's life when being some sort of Clockwork Orange figure does not.
"Incarceration is the detention of a person in jail, typically as punishment for a crime. People are most commonly incarcerated upon suspicion or conviction of committing a crime, and different jurisdictions have differing laws governing the function of incarceration within a larger system of justice."
Oh...the way they said it in BttF II, I thought Doc was excecuted or something in rich Biff's timeline.
"Incarceration is the detention of a person in jail, typically as punishment for a crime. People are most commonly incarcerated upon suspicion or conviction of committing a crime, and different jurisdictions have differing laws governing the function of incarceration within a larger system of justice."
Oh...the way they said it in BttF II, I thought Doc was excecuted or something in rich Biff's timeline.
Well, Doc wasn't incarcerated, but commited to an insane asylum by Biff's order in 1983-A.
I follow and appreciate your logic here. I would like to point out that in 1986A, it's likely that Doc and Marty left town together. Doc would still be a scientist since he would have seen Frankenstine alone and his entry to the Expo would have lost. He may still have invented the flux capacitor, needed plutonium, manipulated the Lybians, asked Marty to film the experiment, and accidently sent him to the past when the Lybians showed up. One of Biff's brothers mentions George knocking Biff out at the dance. I can't imagine the new Tannen timeline would lead George to do this alone, he'd still need "Calvin's" encouragment. Marty would not have ended up in Old Man Peabody's farm, the mall would still be Twin Pine Mall, but other than that, I don't imagine why the events of the first movie would not have played out with the addition of a longer trek for Marty into town to find 1955 Doc who would still be in Hill Valley. The Tannen Brothers were younger than Biff, they might not have even effected the relationship between Biff and George.
Anyway, my point is that the comment about George laying Biff out at the dance leads me to believe that Doc still has a time machine. If he has a time machine, then he still went to the future, got the rejuvination clinic stuff, and then the events of Part II and III would be far different/nonexistent.
Not a hole in your logic, just an alternative . I just can't think of a reason why having a Tannen crime family would prolong Doc's life when being some sort of Clockwork Orange figure does not.
The past is set in stone no matter what alternate future is created. Think about bttf part 2 when old biff has changed the past to make him richer, there is still a marty in 1955 when he should have been unable to go there since he was in boarding school, also in the first film near the end you see another marty going back in time, a marty with different memories and experiences going back to 1955, surely the arrival of a different marty would change the past, but it doesn't. I believe doc in the tannen-crime-family timeline would still have gone forward in time and had rejuvination surgery and so lived to approximately the same age as the original doc from the original timeline, so he does not disappear. Only when the past changes so that he does not go forward in time does he disappear, hence why he disappears as soon as he enters the citizen brown timeline.
When Marty hands Zane George's foto, shouldn't Zane be STUNNED at the quality of the photography? At least it's a black & white one... which doesn't make sense either...
One of the passwords to get into El Kid has Marty saying "Leggo my Eggo". Eggo waffles didn't get into supermarkets until the early 1950's and they were called Froffles. They were officially named Eggos in 1955. So the slogan wouldn't have been heard of in 1931.
Also, Bruce Springsteen is mentioned, and he isn't even born until 1949.
Boss Hog was also one of the possible passwords and that's certainly out of era. I don't think that's a massive deal though, they didn't really have to make sense. Matches just needed to hear the same syllable usage.
I think much of the confusion concerning altering the past is based on one major problem in the BTTF-universe: it doesn't stick to its own rules.
Basically there are 2 solutions:
PRESUMTION 1:
It's just ONE universe we live in, and when altering the past, we change OUR past, which can influence ourselves and even lead to a paradoxon.
What would be a paradoxon? Anything that changes the LAW OF CAUSE & EFFECT.
PRESUMTION 2:
There are multiple universes. When altering the past you split the universe and create a parallel one which has in terms of interference nothing to do with the universe you are coming from. THUS everything you do in the past WONT influence yourself.
Side-effect: you won't be able to return to your orgin universe when travelling back to the future cause you are stranded in the split one.
In BTTF1 when Marty changes his own past it influences himself. He nearly manages to prevent his own birth which would lead to a paradoxon because when not even born, he can't travel back in time and do that. Like the famous grandfather-paradoxon this doesn't work with the law of cause and effect. The "erasing from existance"-phenomenon sticks to PRESUMTION 1.
But when Marty makes George beating up Biff and alters the love-story of his parents this doesn't affect him. When he travels back to 1985 and sees the difference to the 1985 from the beginning he is not familiar with that which sticks to PRESUMTION 2.
So why did the changes in the past first even influence his existance but later on not even his mind (because he experienced a different youth in a richer household?)
I think that is the major problem with BTTF. It often breaks with its own rules and that is what makes it sometimes so hard to understand.
Personally to understand time-travel it is easier for me to follow PRESUMTION 2. Avoiding a paradoxon makes just sense that the time-traveller finally finds a way back where he can live with more or less problems.
In BTTF1 after Marty erased himself from existance and would have returned to 1985 - without bringing his paretns together - he would be stranded in a world where nobody knows him and he has no home. He would be a stranger forever. Thus it was essential to recreate a 1985 which was as similar to the 1985 he was originally from. It was also important that doc just put on a bullet-proof vest so that nearly everything on TWIN/LONE-PINE-MALL happened as it originally happened. Only this led Marty to travel accidentially back to 1955. If doc would have avoided this by not going to the mall or anything else, Marty wouldn't have travelled back in time. So when the original Marty returns from 1955 he'd face himself and be in a 1985 where two Martys would exist. So no home again.
I think much of the confusion concerning altering the past is based on one major problem in the BTTF-universe: it doesn't stick to its own rules.
One presumption you've missed is that both may be partly true. Paradoxes are definitely possible, and Marty DID change after returning home at the end of the first movie, as in the second and third he was both more confident in general and had that anger issue with being called a chicken. It just took a while to happen, seeing as he didn't remember anything about the new timeline when he first woke up. My theory is that the universe itself generally tries to keep everything as much the same as possible, which has worked fine for me so far.
In the "I KNEW it!" thread, the member Flah has also proposed an interesting theory: the multiple universes are actually links of a bigger, stable time loop which cycles through (at least partially) parallel linear timelines, and which can expand until it eventually ends (in completing the circle) by a paradox which shows that the consequential changes of time travel had actually caused time travel in the first place. I tried to explain it in some more detail here (the original theory fully quoted): http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23050&page=3
One presumption you've missed is that both may be partly true. Paradoxes are definitely possible, and Marty DID change after returning home at the end of the first movie, as in the second and third he was both more confident in general and had that anger issue with being called a chicken. It just took a while to happen, seeing as he didn't remember anything about the new timeline when he first woke up. My theory is that the universe itself generally tries to keep everything as much the same as possible, which has worked fine for me so far.
I think this is just Marty "growing up." As opposed to his memories/confidence changing as a result of some time thread. I think the reason they added the whole "chicken" thing was just so Marty would learn a life lesson at the end of the 2 and 3rd movies.
When Marty hands Zane George's foto, shouldn't Zane be STUNNED at the quality of the photography? At least it's a black & white one... which doesn't make sense either...
It could be a novelty photo like the ones at county fairs where the photo quality is made to look like an older photograph, and Marty liked how it looks so he kept it in his wallet. It wouldn't be too strange. My dad had a novelty picture taken where he's holding a PGA championship trophy and I keep that one with me because I really like how happy he looks in the picture.
I think this is just Marty "growing up." As opposed to his memories/confidence changing as a result of some time thread. I think the reason they added the whole "chicken" thing was just so Marty would learn a life lesson at the end of the 2 and 3rd movies.
Yes, the out-of-universe reason IS that it was a retcon thing added so Marty could visibly improve at the end, but in-universe it's definitely something about his trip to 1955 that's changed him.
I'm not going to talk about plotholes/continuity errors/anachronisms but I did notice a silly, not really important, mistake which made me laugh a bit.
Judge Brown can't pronounce his surname. Here's the quote: "The Von Brons have been officers of the court since God heavenly spark first gave rise to man, Emmett!" (yes, he says Von Brons it's not a typo) I'm not german but shouldn't he say "Fon Braun"? He's supposedly german and doesn't know that? lol
I think you didn't quite get Qualcosa's drift here. He wasn't talking about spelling, but about pronunciantion - and that English Native speakers tend to speak the "v" in "von Braun" as a /w/ sound instead of an /f/.
I think you didn't quite get Qualcosa's drift here. He wasn't talking about spelling, but about pronunciantion - and that English Native speakers tend to speak the "v" in "von Braun" as a /w/ sound instead of an /f/.
Yes, Germany to the rescue! XD
Btw, did you hear that and laugh about it? hah.
Just a thought here..... But Ep 3 main story line is Doc fixing the time machine from references in his book regarding the Delorian & Flux Capacitor.........
Technically as far as I think..... this book and it's contents should not have existed in this timeline neither the the Delorian or F.C.
..... hmmmm ok we have to let the car and fc slip but the book is just too obvious!!!:eek:
You're just not not thinking fourth dimensionally! Remember in the flop house where Doc explains all the time lines? Well, this would be time line F where Marty goes back while Doc realizes that Edna and his younger self get together and his ticket stub fades since Edna 'has other ideas'. The news papers still exist that Marty carries, but they change. The Flux capacitor won't ever change, it's already been invented. Though this Doc is really not the Doc from the original timeline that started it all back when Doc was showing Marty the time machine in the very beginning at the Twin Pines Mall Parking lot.
And shameful.. It's DeLorean... XP And it would still exist since this is timeline E Marty going into Timeline F thinking he was going back to the original 1986. Also remember the corrupted timeline in Episode 2 where Doc rams the limo that Kid Tannen is in. Same difference. The timeline is still corrupted but that Marty is not. Nor is Doc.
The flux capacitor drawing still existed because Doc still had his flux capacitor vision in 1955 (or some other date). However, in this timeline, rather than building it, he used it as inspiration for the Hill Valley y-shaped man logo.
LMAO ok ok ok I get the point..... I need to brish up on my BTTF knowledge To prove it in fact I have just returned from purchasing BTTF 1, 2 ,3 dvd box set. the 25th special is not available in S.A yet.... as per usual we get it months if not years later!!!
Well all! played the whole ep 3 and loved it! Citizen Brown looks awesome like A crossover od Christopher lloyd and Emmett. also reminds me of a Character in Fng of Fighters
The Sisters of Mercy Soup Kitchen building in 1931 has a different facade design to what it does in its appearances in the films. The 1885 building has the same facade as the 1955 building, suggesting (based on the different filming locations) that they are intended to be the same building.
While it is possible that the building was damaged pre-1931, rebuilt to a new design (as seen in the game), before being damaged again, and rebuilt to its original 1880s design, it's more likely an oversight by the game designers.
Ok, now here's an inconsistency that blows my mind from episode 2 to episode 3. Marty returns from 1931 in a hurry. He naturally wears his neat 1931 suit. He crashes into the billboard in 1986, and ta-dah, magically wears his 1986 clothes?!?
/edit: Damn, that wasn't an inconsistency. He changes those in the end sequence of episode 2, still in 1931.
I'm not going to talk about plotholes/continuity errors/anachronisms but I did notice a silly, not really important, mistake which made me laugh a bit.
Judge Brown can't pronounce his surname. Here's the quote: "The Von Brons have been officers of the court since God heavenly spark first gave rise to man, Emmett!" (yes, he says Von Brons it's not a typo) I'm not german but shouldn't he say "Fon Braun"? He's supposedly german and doesn't know that? lol
Meh, his Honor is upset, his speech is messed up. Don't you mis-speak when you're angry?
Comments
In Bttf part 2 in Biff-controlled-1985, Doc would have disappeared if he was going to die before the age he is now, but he hasn't travelled in time much yet, only to the future and back twice, getting rejuvinated in his first trip to make him look younger, so he's not dead before his time. But after those events and after he finds clara he does go on a lot of time travel adventures and rejuvenates himself a lot and the same with einstein, so that's why einstein and doc disappeared in episode 2 of the game, as they were too old to live in the alternate timeline. Makes sense to me
As we learn in Part 3 he's actually named after a great, great uncle from the 1800's. Been awhile since I've seen the third film but if memory serves me Martin McFly had a bit of a temper and was apparently killed in a knife fight prior to 1885.
As a side note Marty is named after BOTH of the McFly brothers from the 1880's: his full name is Martin Seamus McFly according to the BttF Wiki ^_~
Easily the most likely explanation and one that people seem to be having trouble with. Marty when compared to Doc has actually spent very little time outside of 1985. From the time the DeLorean left at 1:35 AM on October 26th, 1985 until his final jump back to 11 AM on October 27th, 1985 we see Marty spend a little more 16 days outside of 1985:
-One week in 1955
-Two hours and fifty nine minutes in 2015
-Five hours and forty two minutes in 1985A
-Four more days in 1955
-Five days in 1885
On the other hand we have Doc. While other works seem to have established him as being born in 1920 this game has now set the date to 1914. As far as I'm concerned since the game has the involvement of Bob Gale and has pretty much been written to be Part 4 I'm going with it's age for Doc.
Now at the end of the original movie Doc says "30 years is a good round number" in regards to going to the future. One can assume he went to October 26th, 2015. However since Einstien was in a suspended animation kennel upon Doc's return to 2015 with Marty it seems to suggest he arrived at an earlier date. Finally when you consider everything Doc did in 2015 prior to getting Marty (the rejuv surgery, DeLorean upgrades, ect) then one has to assume he was in 2015 for a considerable amount of time. Also for all we know Doc made other trips along the timestream prior to learning about what happened to Marty's kids. Once you bring 1885 into the mix it gets even more insane. Considering the ages of Doc's sons and the fact that Doc had to reverse engineer the hover board with 19th century tech in order to come up with a new flux capacitor it could have easily taken Doc about 10 years (the wiki even lists a departure date of 1895 which I assume likely came from either the novel of Part 3 or the animated series). That being said if we assume Jules was about 7 or 8 and Vern was about 4 or 5 then we must assume at least another 15 years have passed for Doc from the end of Part 3 to the time we first see him in 1931.
Once all things are considered it's easy to assume that Doc has spent the better part of 25 years living and traveling to various time periods. This puts Doc at about 96 years old. Assuming he got only one rejuv surgery this mean his life expectancy is about 100-110 years. Now since Doc was excited over finding out who would win the next 25 World Series prior to being shot in the original TP timeline one could assume he knew he was near the end of his life and maybe didn't see himself living past 75 (obviously at this point he'd have no way of knowing about the surgery to prolong his life)
As for why Doc disappears instantly it's simple: by not seeing the film Frankenstein along with Young Emmett's encounter with Marty in episode one his outlook on science his changed. As the DeLorean doesn't disappear itself and merely suffers malfuntions we can assume that "Citizen Brown" still comes up with the idea for it but doesn't complete it and doesn't travel to the future. As a result the paradox this creates erases the Doc we know from existance since he cannot be a 96 year old man without the surgery in 2015. He jumped past a critical point in history and upon arrival vanishes.
Now I know what some folks will say: "Sure Enigma....that all makes sense but why didn't this affect Old Biff the same way?" It's simple really. As the younger version of Biff couldn't act instantly on the info it created a ripple effect that protected Old Biff for a short time. The moment the ripple caught up to him that was it. As he jumped past a critical point (in this case 1996) he was no longer compatible with the timeline and vanished.
Finally some of you will say this: "What about Marty/Doc in 1985A in the film? What about 1986A in episode two? 1986B? How do these timelines affect the DeLorean?" As long as nothing has endangered your existance at that paticular point in time you CAN live that timeline and are simply a visitor. 1985A works for Marty because he has obviously still been born. Doc in this case may have gotten lucky. At that point in time he's only spent at the most a year outside the normal flow of time. Granted the 1985A version is in an asylum but as long as he was alive then our Doc is ok since he's pretty much a version of Doc from the future. The DeLorean in 1985A could have been on the verge of fading away for all we know but we never see it happen so it's possible some kind of ripple effect protected it (I for one don't believe it's immune to timeline changes as it's mafunctions at the end of episode two suggest it can indeed be affected). 1986A is a simple one: we know Marty had to leave town but he's alive. As for Doc the events with Edna upon the next trip to 1931 hadn't happened so he's still safe. Hell for all we know the Doc Brown of 1986A left in '85 and is alive and well in 2015 (hence why Doc didn't fade upon arrival here). As for 1986B that already been covered.
Ok......I know this was a long read. Hope it helped things make a bit more sense into the reason why Doc fades away so quickly. However knowing this series it's likely to just raise additional questions.
Time travel can be such a headache at times can't it? XD
We find that out in III that Marty's great-great-grandfather's name is Seamus and that Marty had a great-great-uncle named Martin, but we never knew if George and Lorraine decided to name "Marty" after his great-great uncle (it could have been a nice name they liked in the original timeline), being that Marty didn't know about Seamus' brother, he might have not known why he was named "Marty", so it could just be an amazing coincidence. They never mentioned the reason for Marty's name in the original timeline and that timeline is gone since Part I. About "Seamus", probably same situation, but likely George liked his great-grandfather's name.
It's the most-likely explanation, but not the definitive.
About Ripple Effect and Doc's fate: I fully agree.
I follow and appreciate your logic here. I would like to point out that in 1986A, it's likely that Doc and Marty left town together. Doc would still be a scientist since he would have seen Frankenstine alone and his entry to the Expo would have lost. He may still have invented the flux capacitor, needed plutonium, manipulated the Lybians, asked Marty to film the experiment, and accidently sent him to the past when the Lybians showed up. One of Biff's brothers mentions George knocking Biff out at the dance. I can't imagine the new Tannen timeline would lead George to do this alone, he'd still need "Calvin's" encouragment. Marty would not have ended up in Old Man Peabody's farm, the mall would still be Twin Pine Mall, but other than that, I don't imagine why the events of the first movie would not have played out with the addition of a longer trek for Marty into town to find 1955 Doc who would still be in Hill Valley. The Tannen Brothers were younger than Biff, they might not have even effected the relationship between Biff and George.
Anyway, my point is that the comment about George laying Biff out at the dance leads me to believe that Doc still has a time machine. If he has a time machine, then he still went to the future, got the rejuvination clinic stuff, and then the events of Part II and III would be far different/nonexistent.
Not a hole in your logic, just an alternative
Oh...the way they said it in BttF II, I thought Doc was excecuted or something in rich Biff's timeline.
Well, Doc wasn't incarcerated, but commited to an insane asylum by Biff's order in 1983-A.
The past is set in stone no matter what alternate future is created. Think about bttf part 2 when old biff has changed the past to make him richer, there is still a marty in 1955 when he should have been unable to go there since he was in boarding school, also in the first film near the end you see another marty going back in time, a marty with different memories and experiences going back to 1955, surely the arrival of a different marty would change the past, but it doesn't. I believe doc in the tannen-crime-family timeline would still have gone forward in time and had rejuvination surgery and so lived to approximately the same age as the original doc from the original timeline, so he does not disappear. Only when the past changes so that he does not go forward in time does he disappear, hence why he disappears as soon as he enters the citizen brown timeline.
Also, Bruce Springsteen is mentioned, and he isn't even born until 1949.
Basically there are 2 solutions:
PRESUMTION 1:
It's just ONE universe we live in, and when altering the past, we change OUR past, which can influence ourselves and even lead to a paradoxon.
What would be a paradoxon? Anything that changes the LAW OF CAUSE & EFFECT.
PRESUMTION 2:
There are multiple universes. When altering the past you split the universe and create a parallel one which has in terms of interference nothing to do with the universe you are coming from. THUS everything you do in the past WONT influence yourself.
Side-effect: you won't be able to return to your orgin universe when travelling back to the future cause you are stranded in the split one.
In BTTF1 when Marty changes his own past it influences himself. He nearly manages to prevent his own birth which would lead to a paradoxon because when not even born, he can't travel back in time and do that. Like the famous grandfather-paradoxon this doesn't work with the law of cause and effect. The "erasing from existance"-phenomenon sticks to PRESUMTION 1.
But when Marty makes George beating up Biff and alters the love-story of his parents this doesn't affect him. When he travels back to 1985 and sees the difference to the 1985 from the beginning he is not familiar with that which sticks to PRESUMTION 2.
So why did the changes in the past first even influence his existance but later on not even his mind (because he experienced a different youth in a richer household?)
I think that is the major problem with BTTF. It often breaks with its own rules and that is what makes it sometimes so hard to understand.
Personally to understand time-travel it is easier for me to follow PRESUMTION 2. Avoiding a paradoxon makes just sense that the time-traveller finally finds a way back where he can live with more or less problems.
In BTTF1 after Marty erased himself from existance and would have returned to 1985 - without bringing his paretns together - he would be stranded in a world where nobody knows him and he has no home. He would be a stranger forever. Thus it was essential to recreate a 1985 which was as similar to the 1985 he was originally from. It was also important that doc just put on a bullet-proof vest so that nearly everything on TWIN/LONE-PINE-MALL happened as it originally happened. Only this led Marty to travel accidentially back to 1955. If doc would have avoided this by not going to the mall or anything else, Marty wouldn't have travelled back in time. So when the original Marty returns from 1955 he'd face himself and be in a 1985 where two Martys would exist. So no home again.
One presumption you've missed is that both may be partly true. Paradoxes are definitely possible, and Marty DID change after returning home at the end of the first movie, as in the second and third he was both more confident in general and had that anger issue with being called a chicken. It just took a while to happen, seeing as he didn't remember anything about the new timeline when he first woke up. My theory is that the universe itself generally tries to keep everything as much the same as possible, which has worked fine for me so far.
I think this is just Marty "growing up." As opposed to his memories/confidence changing as a result of some time thread. I think the reason they added the whole "chicken" thing was just so Marty would learn a life lesson at the end of the 2 and 3rd movies.
Yes, the out-of-universe reason IS that it was a retcon thing added so Marty could visibly improve at the end, but in-universe it's definitely something about his trip to 1955 that's changed him.
Judge Brown can't pronounce his surname. Here's the quote: "The Von Brons have been officers of the court since God heavenly spark first gave rise to man, Emmett!" (yes, he says Von Brons it's not a typo) I'm not german but shouldn't he say "Fon Braun"? He's supposedly german and doesn't know that? lol
I think you didn't quite get Qualcosa's drift here. He wasn't talking about spelling, but about pronunciantion - and that English Native speakers tend to speak the "v" in "von Braun" as a /w/ sound instead of an /f/.
Btw, did you hear that and laugh about it? hah.
Just a thought here..... But Ep 3 main story line is Doc fixing the time machine from references in his book regarding the Delorian & Flux Capacitor.........
Technically as far as I think..... this book and it's contents should not have existed in this timeline neither the the Delorian or F.C.
..... hmmmm ok we have to let the car and fc slip but the book is just too obvious!!!:eek:
And shameful.. It's DeLorean... XP And it would still exist since this is timeline E Marty going into Timeline F thinking he was going back to the original 1986. Also remember the corrupted timeline in Episode 2 where Doc rams the limo that Kid Tannen is in. Same difference. The timeline is still corrupted but that Marty is not. Nor is Doc.
Thanks that um...... yeah.... makes sense
PS sorry for mispelling DeLorean
I thought it was a great way to end off the episode. I still wish we could've interacted a little bit more with Citizen Brown though...
Dont make them explain this pic again LMAO but yeah my point exactly.
While it is possible that the building was damaged pre-1931, rebuilt to a new design (as seen in the game), before being damaged again, and rebuilt to its original 1880s design, it's more likely an oversight by the game designers.
/edit: Damn, that wasn't an inconsistency. He changes those in the end sequence of episode 2, still in 1931.
Meh, his Honor is upset, his speech is messed up. Don't you mis-speak when you're angry?