You've said it's a stupid plan and I agree. I think if you plan to expose someone as dangerous and your attempt to do that puts four people at risk with the outcome that at least one person is dead, then YOU'RE the one who was dangerous. That's not protection. But like I said above, I try not to let that taint Jane too much because the ending went a little nuts and prior to that she was mostly very rational.
Actually, that truck wasn't "surrounded" by walkers.
There were two at most that I saw that were a real danger to Clem, and though th… moreere were more from a distance, they were a good distance away if you look. The only ones Jane saw were Walker 1, which she watched Clem shoot, and Walkers 2 and 3, which Jane led away from the truck. She didn't see Walker 4 under the truck just like Clem didn't see it, and 5 and 6 were so far away they weren't a threat. Jane had to leave Clem to lead Walkers 2 and 3 away from Clem. Since Clem had a gun, I think Jane also assumed Clem could defend herself if need be. Go back and watch if you'd like: Go to 1:16:31 until 1:17:15
As to your second point that Jane left the baby in the car. I've already said this was a stupid plan; Jane agreed it was stupid. Of course Jane believed she would survive the fight and retrieve AJ after the fight as others have said. However have you considered the possibility th… [view original content]
Possibly. But Jane believed the alternative was letting all four of them march to their deaths. So for Jane, it was all of them dead or hopefully none of them dead (Jane never intended to kill Kenny from the start; she realized she had to when Kenny wouldn't leave them peacefully. (Jane: Just go. Kenny: I ain't goin' nowhere. Jane: Fine. [She comes at him with the knife.]) I believe she thought this was a huge risk she had to take, but a necessary one.
And yes I agree that Jane's actions in the ending were very off and the writers were not consistent with her at all. I wrote up a whole other thing about that but omitted it for fear of this being too long; perhaps I'll put it in. Also I'm glad you try not to let that taint her for you.
You've said it's a stupid plan and I agree. I think if you plan to expose someone as dangerous and your attempt to do that puts four people … moreat risk with the outcome that at least one person is dead, then YOU'RE the one who was dangerous. That's not protection. But like I said above, I try not to let that taint Jane too much because the ending went a little nuts and prior to that she was mostly very rational.
Yeah there were multiple problems with that whole setup and obviously not all to do with Jane. Like given the amount of opportunities to say we thought Kenny was dangerous, the entire thing could have been averted by Jane just asking if Clem wanted to skip off with her (as my Clem asked to do in ep4). We were being funnelled to an ending that didn't quite fit and that included the actions of Clem, Jane and Kenny. I couldn't rationalise what Jane did by saying she didn't intend for Kenny to die though because she could have stopped the fight at any stage by telling them AJ was fine - it didn't have to go to the point where he could kill her. That didn't fit her survivor nature for me. Whatever about anyone else, that she was that good at surviving up to that point and then would put herself in that position just doesn't work for me. But yes, if I take it at face value it makes Jane the dangerous one, especially given that ultimately Kenny turned out to be right.
A writing problem that I think many then take on as a Jane problem.
Edit: these boards can be a bit of a nightmare on my iPad...
then YOU'RE the one who was dangerous.
Possibly. But Jane believed the alternative was letting all four of them march to their death… mores. So for Jane, it was all of them dead or hopefully none of them dead (Jane never intended to kill Kenny from the start; she realized she had to when Kenny wouldn't leave them peacefully. (Jane: Just go. Kenny: I ain't goin' nowhere. Jane: Fine. [She comes at him with the knife.]) I believe she thought this was a huge risk she had to take, but a necessary one.
And yes I agree that Jane's actions in the ending were very off and the writers were not consistent with her at all. I wrote up a whole other thing about that but omitted it for fear of this being too long; perhaps I'll put it in. Also I'm glad you try not to let that taint her for you.
Yeah that is true but during the truck scene she honestly had no choice. I mean she had a baby in her hands. All she could do was have faith in Clem and get the baby to safety. Now let's turn your statement towards Ken. He left a little girl and baby in a truck with a woman he doesn't trust, and walkers are near by.
Both were wrong. Jane was wrong for stashing A.j in a cold car and Kenny was wrong for abandoning Clem and Aj.
Please don't give the kenny trolls what they want. This is a really good thread and made some interesting points. Like for one, the comparison between Michonne and Jane. I never really noticed it until now.
Absolutely agreed there were many writing problems, and some are unfairly attributed to Jane rather than the writers.
she could have stopped the fight at any stage by telling them AJ was fine - it didn't have to go to the point where he could kill her.
Agreed; it didn't have to. What really boggles my mind is how Jane was stabbed once already by Kenny before he ultimately killed her:
and she still doesn't confess about AJ. Not to mention it makes no sense that she would just die and leave Clem with Kenny, which was the whole reason she was fighting in the first place. It makes no sense at all for her to not confess.
I couldn't rationalise what Jane did by saying she didn't intend for Kenny to die though she could have stopped the fight at any stage
Ok yeah I agree she should've confessed like I said. That's why I let that part go. But what do you think Jane meant when she told Kenny to "Just go."? I'm curious as to what you think.
Kenny turned out to be right
I assume you mean he was right about Wellington? Yes he was. However I don't think it's fair to judge Jane's actions here with hindsight. It seems Jane thought she was doing what was right with the knowledge she had at the time. (Personally I was hoping they'd go try to find Wellington after stopping by Howe's to get some supplies.) But mostly the fact that they'd be looking for Wellington via trial and error just was not a good plan. With the knowledge they had then, they really could've been looking for Wellington for up to weeks, if it even existed, like Jane said. Howe's however was a known location and they could make a beeline right for it, and even if there were walkers or people there already, there would at least be a chance for them to sort through the ruins or confront the people there or something. Basically what I'm saying is we have a known camp vs. an unknown camp that might not exist, and the probability of finding the known is higher than the probability of finding the unknown.
Yeah there were multiple problems with that whole setup and obviously not all to do with Jane. Like given the amount of opportunities to say… more we thought Kenny was dangerous, the entire thing could have been averted by Jane just asking if Clem wanted to skip off with her (as my Clem asked to do in ep4). We were being funnelled to an ending that didn't quite fit and that included the actions of Clem, Jane and Kenny. I couldn't rationalise what Jane did by saying she didn't intend for Kenny to die though because she could have stopped the fight at any stage by telling them AJ was fine - it didn't have to go to the point where he could kill her. That didn't fit her survivor nature for me. Whatever about anyone else, that she was that good at surviving up to that point and then would put herself in that position just doesn't work for me. But yes, if I take it at face value it makes Jane the dangerous one, especially given that ultimately Kenny turn… [view original content]
I never noticed the whole bloodstain thing. Nice catch. Although, Telltale sometimes messes things up. For example, I have seen in Season 1 Episode 5 that when I reached the top of the hospital, Lee still had his arm even though I had just cut it off. The bloodstain may have just been someone accidentally placing the blood on Jane's character model prematurely.
Absolutely agreed there were many writing problems, and some are unfairly attributed to Jane rather than the writers.
she could have s… moretopped the fight at any stage by telling them AJ was fine - it didn't have to go to the point where he could kill her.
Agreed; it didn't have to. What really boggles my mind is how Jane was stabbed once already by Kenny before he ultimately killed her:
and she still doesn't confess about AJ. Not to mention it makes no sense that she would just die and leave Clem with Kenny, which was the whole reason she was fighting in the first place. It makes no sense at all for her to not confess.
I couldn't rationalise what Jane did by saying she didn't intend for Kenny to die though she could have stopped the fight at any stage
Ok yeah I agree she should've confessed like I said. That's why I let that part go. But what do you think Jane meant when she told Kenny to "Just go."? I'm curiou… [view original content]
Thank you. Well that's possible it was a mistake, but it looks like they animated the scene that Jane was first stabbed; most people just don't notice it because it was such a distance away from Clem, Clem was very disoriented at that moment so things are blurry, and Clem was picking up the gun at that moment. It took me forever to find a proper walkthrough that portrayed it, even though it's still difficult to see.
Start at 5:51. The first stabbing actually takes place between 6:08 to 6:18
In addition, they leave the bloodstain on her model (her "character skin"? I don't know the exact terminology) for the rest of that day until they get to Howe's, where it's gone because presumably she washed it off after nine days.
Still could've been an error but you'd think someone at TT would notice after having Jane talk for a whole minute with that stain on her chest.
The moment the truck crashes Jane just opens the door, tells Clem to hurry and walks away. She could have easily pushed the walker with her legs. She abandons her.
Actually, that truck wasn't "surrounded" by walkers.
There were two at most that I saw that were a real danger to Clem, and though th… moreere were more from a distance, they were a good distance away if you look. The only ones Jane saw were Walker 1, which she watched Clem shoot, and Walkers 2 and 3, which Jane led away from the truck. She didn't see Walker 4 under the truck just like Clem didn't see it, and 5 and 6 were so far away they weren't a threat. Jane had to leave Clem to lead Walkers 2 and 3 away from Clem. Since Clem had a gun, I think Jane also assumed Clem could defend herself if need be. Go back and watch if you'd like: Go to 1:16:31 until 1:17:15
As to your second point that Jane left the baby in the car. I've already said this was a stupid plan; Jane agreed it was stupid. Of course Jane believed she would survive the fight and retrieve AJ after the fight as others have said. However have you considered the possibility th… [view original content]
Yeah that is true but during the truck scene she honestly had no choice. I mean she had a baby in her hands. All she could do was have faith in Clem and get the baby to safety.
She could have pushed the walker with her legs or grab the knife she had on her belt.
Now let's turn your statement towards Ken. He left a little girl and baby in a truck with a woman he doesn't trust, and walkers are near by.
He went to get gas and shit hit the fan. Meanwhile Jane is trying to make Clem do what Mike and Bonnie already did a couple hours ago.
Yeah that is true but during the truck scene she honestly had no choice. I mean she had a baby in her hands. All she could do was have faith… more in Clem and get the baby to safety. Now let's turn your statement towards Ken. He left a little girl and baby in a truck with a woman he doesn't trust, and walkers are near by.
Both were wrong. Jane was wrong for stashing A.j in a cold car and Kenny was wrong for abandoning Clem and Aj.
Please don't give the kenny trolls what they want. This is a really good thread and made some interesting points. Like for one, the comparison between Michonne and Jane. I never really noticed it until now.
You say Troy was a horrible person but we don't know that.
He was physically and verbally abusive, a bully drunk off the power he had as Carver's right hand, implied he'd be perfectly okay with slapping Sarah around even worse than Carlos did ("if it means I'll slap the shit out of her, then yeah"), slapped and manhandled Clementine, and then slams his gun into either Clementine's or Sarita's face unless you restrain Sarita completely.
Does this mean he's irredeemably evil? Not necessarily, but it most certainly shows in big neon letters that Troy was a horrible person. Enough that I won't say leaving him to die (which is really the issue here; whether he was shot in the balls or in the leg or anywhere else is kind of irrelevant) was "right", but that I had no sympathy for him because he had not given me a single reason to feel any.
Good points here. I never really saw her as a Michonne character but I'm far more familiar with Michonne from the comics than I am with the … morecharacter in the show. Jane actually seems a lot more human and actually more normal than Michonne to me but I guess we have seen glimpses into who Michonne really is. Not many though. I can figure Jane out a lot easier. But it's still a valid comparision.
As for the defence of the criticisms, you've made a LOT of points and they're good but many are really about the same events. The ending events, for example, are covered a couple of times. Personally, when considering Jane I tend to discount the end because it was batshit mental. The ending of ep5 and her actions seem so out of character to me and it's a massive shame because I think a huge number of issues people have with Jane come down to what happened at the very end. A lot of people were like WTF was she thinking? But I think a fairer question i… [view original content]
That's not exactly all that happens. Jane gets out of the car at the same time she assumes Clem is getting out of the car. Getting out of the car was to Jane the most logical and easiest escape for both of them. I'm not sure if pushing it with her legs would be possible because it's so close to Jane and AJ (especially if the "zombies can scratch and turn you" rule is in effect here, though I don't believe the game has ever mentioned it), though maybe she could have kicked it away. Also note the walker was reaching for Jane/AJ when Jane opened her door; it wasn't reaching for Clem.
When Jane sees Clem still in the car, she says, "Fuck, get out of there!" to which Clem responds, "The door is stuck!" Jane assumed Clem's car door would open and Clem would be able to get out (as anyone would assume a car door to work). Clem then shoots the walker while Jane, with AJ in her arms, is immediately pursued by two more walkers. Jane can't really take these two down with AJ in her arms, and so she is forced to flee. 5:38
The moment the truck crashes Jane just opens the door, tells Clem to hurry and walks away. She could have easily pushed the walker with her legs. She abandons her.
Pointing out these two details actually has has made your response utterly, completely, totally, 100%, absolutely, fully, wholly, fantastically, fuctardadly worthless.
A third detail, even if your "details" would have been legitimate it wouldn't POWER SLAM the entire post. It would just nibble at its heals like a yipping chiwawa.
Yes, all good points and you're right that Jane couldn't have known they were close to Wellington. Kenny wasn't the only person who thought it was there though so it wasn't like he was just some lone nut - others talked about it too. The fact that we start the entire season with Christa talking about it sets that up as something for Clem to remember. But yes, it could have seemed to Jane like it was a crazy plan without knowing exactly where they're going. But then her end plan child have resulted in herself dead, AJ dead (what if Clem hadn't heard him?) and possibly even Clem dead too because it's just weird that the writers don't tackle how she's not having blood loss problems from that gunshot wound. It's a dangerous plan. Not convinced her actions could possibly have seemed less dangerous than the four sticking together even if Wellington never existed.
But like I say, for me, that doesn't come down to the KvJ thing that it seems to for a lot of people. I really like Jane. I just think the ending made no sense and had everyone acting strangely and funnelled into bizarre choices to get there.
Absolutely agreed there were many writing problems, and some are unfairly attributed to Jane rather than the writers.
she could have s… moretopped the fight at any stage by telling them AJ was fine - it didn't have to go to the point where he could kill her.
Agreed; it didn't have to. What really boggles my mind is how Jane was stabbed once already by Kenny before he ultimately killed her:
and she still doesn't confess about AJ. Not to mention it makes no sense that she would just die and leave Clem with Kenny, which was the whole reason she was fighting in the first place. It makes no sense at all for her to not confess.
I couldn't rationalise what Jane did by saying she didn't intend for Kenny to die though she could have stopped the fight at any stage
Ok yeah I agree she should've confessed like I said. That's why I let that part go. But what do you think Jane meant when she told Kenny to "Just go."? I'm curiou… [view original content]
He was all those things but I take shooting in the balls as a pretty huge and nasty thing to do to someone (can't see how the shooting and location could possibly be irrelevant given the difference in damage it would cause). My default is that it is not justified and that nobody I would consider decent could do this unless in the most horrific of circumstances. What was set up did not show circumstances horrific enough for me. Not even close. Of all those actions you describe from Troy, shooting someone in the nads and leaving them for dead trumps every one of them on the scale of nastiness.
You say Troy was a horrible person but we don't know that.
He was physically and verbally abusive, a bully drunk off the power he ha… mored as Carver's right hand, implied he'd be perfectly okay with slapping Sarah around even worse than Carlos did ("if it means I'll slap the shit out of her, then yeah"), slapped and manhandled Clementine, and then slams his gun into either Clementine's or Sarita's face unless you restrain Sarita completely.
Does this mean he's irredeemably evil? Not necessarily, but it most certainly shows in big neon letters that Troy was a horrible person. Enough that I won't say leaving him to die (which is really the issue here; whether he was shot in the balls or in the leg or anywhere else is kind of irrelevant) was "right", but that I had no sympathy for him because he had not given me a single reason to feel any.
I hate to speak ill of Michonne, but she does have similar flaws.
Michonne...wouldn't abandon someone if they were weaker than her .
In the show, when Michonne first goes to Woodbury with Rick's group to rescue Glenn and Maggie, she abandons them to find the Governor. This includes Glenn, who is pretty much beat to shit, and who is beyond a doubt weaker than Michonne at this point. Michonne abandons him as well as the rest.
And you can't argue to me that Michonne came back (yup she did come back), because then Michonne would be like Jane too in that they both came back, wouldn't she?
(tv spoilers) In addition when Michonne leaves Andrea at Woodbury the first time, it can be argued that Michonne is abandoning her. Michonne gives her an ultimatum: leave Woodbury with her or stay. From Michonne's perspective, Woodbury was not a safe place, and if she left Andrea, she'd be leaving her with the shady Governor, who we know will later cause Andrea's eventual death when she couldn't escape Woodbury or the Governor. Also don't forget Andrea was just recovering from a bad illness; she says, "Eight months. Eight months moving on the road from place to place, scavenging, living in a meat locker....I'm tired. I'm tired. I don't think I have another eight months in me, not like that," suggesting she's still somewhat not 100% well, or at the very least she's not as strong as Michonne is to take on the outside world again. (end tv spoilers)
In other words, she's weaker than Michonne. And Michonne knowingly leaves her in the shady Woodbury, saying, "You'd just slow me down anyway." Hm Andrea would slow Michonne down because she was weaker than her?
Oh and one other thing: Andrea is even worried that "you're gonna disappear," just like everyone was afraid Jane would leave in Amid the Ruins.
Although these are the worse qualities of Michonne that she shares with Jane, as I said, they also both come back as well. It's interesting because they share both their bad and their good qualities too.
I stopped reading after "Jane is similar to Micchonne"
Michonne is nothing like her. Michonne actually cares about other people and wouldn't abandon someone if they were weaker than her .
To be honest, I see no problem with killing someone if they're as sadistic and incompetent as Troy. Jane was pragmatic enough to kill him in a way that was both painful AND would have provided a distraction for the zombies.
He was all those things but I take shooting in the balls as a pretty huge and nasty thing to do to someone (can't see how the shooting and l… moreocation could possibly be irrelevant given the difference in damage it would cause). My default is that it is not justified and that nobody I would consider decent could do this unless in the most horrific of circumstances. What was set up did not show circumstances horrific enough for me. Not even close. Of all those actions you describe from Troy, shooting someone in the nads and leaving them for dead trumps every one of them on the scale of nastiness.
Umm... only a man would say that? Because I mention nads? It wouldn't be all that great if she had done the same to a woman either. A wound in that area is going to get pretty messy regardless of gender. I don't get that comment... that only a man might think it a bad thing to shoot someone in the crotch?
What you're saying though is that if someone is sadistic, then it's okay to be MORE sadistic (did we see Troy do anything to compare with what Jane did?). That's nonsense. Then we could say that it would be fine to maim Jane then and there and leave her for dead too given that she's clearly sadistic too. And then we can do worse to whoever did that and so on until nobody is left. That's just senseless.
Only a man would say that.
To be honest, I see no problem with killing someone if they're as sadistic and incompetent as Troy. Jane was … morepragmatic enough to kill him in a way that was both painful AND would have provided a distraction for the zombies.
Comments
Hey as long as it's well thought-out, bring it on.
You've said it's a stupid plan and I agree. I think if you plan to expose someone as dangerous and your attempt to do that puts four people at risk with the outcome that at least one person is dead, then YOU'RE the one who was dangerous. That's not protection. But like I said above, I try not to let that taint Jane too much because the ending went a little nuts and prior to that she was mostly very rational.
Hopefully it doesn't escalate, though.
Well I feel that usually I don't do any escalating on my side. Though if I see the conversation not going anywhere except downhill, I'll just stop.
Smart choice.
Possibly. But Jane believed the alternative was letting all four of them march to their deaths. So for Jane, it was all of them dead or hopefully none of them dead (Jane never intended to kill Kenny from the start; she realized she had to when Kenny wouldn't leave them peacefully. (Jane: Just go. Kenny: I ain't goin' nowhere. Jane: Fine. [She comes at him with the knife.]) I believe she thought this was a huge risk she had to take, but a necessary one.
And yes I agree that Jane's actions in the ending were very off and the writers were not consistent with her at all. I wrote up a whole other thing about that but omitted it for fear of this being too long; perhaps I'll put it in. Also I'm glad you try not to let that taint her for you.
Yeah there were multiple problems with that whole setup and obviously not all to do with Jane. Like given the amount of opportunities to say we thought Kenny was dangerous, the entire thing could have been averted by Jane just asking if Clem wanted to skip off with her (as my Clem asked to do in ep4). We were being funnelled to an ending that didn't quite fit and that included the actions of Clem, Jane and Kenny. I couldn't rationalise what Jane did by saying she didn't intend for Kenny to die though because she could have stopped the fight at any stage by telling them AJ was fine - it didn't have to go to the point where he could kill her. That didn't fit her survivor nature for me. Whatever about anyone else, that she was that good at surviving up to that point and then would put herself in that position just doesn't work for me. But yes, if I take it at face value it makes Jane the dangerous one, especially given that ultimately Kenny turned out to be right.
A writing problem that I think many then take on as a Jane problem.
Edit: these boards can be a bit of a nightmare on my iPad...
Sialark... you are the greatest person alive.
Yeah that is true but during the truck scene she honestly had no choice. I mean she had a baby in her hands. All she could do was have faith in Clem and get the baby to safety. Now let's turn your statement towards Ken. He left a little girl and baby in a truck with a woman he doesn't trust, and walkers are near by.
Both were wrong. Jane was wrong for stashing A.j in a cold car and Kenny was wrong for abandoning Clem and Aj.
Please don't give the kenny trolls what they want. This is a really good thread and made some interesting points. Like for one, the comparison between Michonne and Jane. I never really noticed it until now.
Absolutely agreed there were many writing problems, and some are unfairly attributed to Jane rather than the writers.
Agreed; it didn't have to. What really boggles my mind is how Jane was stabbed once already by Kenny before he ultimately killed her:
and she still doesn't confess about AJ. Not to mention it makes no sense that she would just die and leave Clem with Kenny, which was the whole reason she was fighting in the first place. It makes no sense at all for her to not confess.
Ok yeah I agree she should've confessed like I said. That's why I let that part go. But what do you think Jane meant when she told Kenny to "Just go."? I'm curious as to what you think.
I assume you mean he was right about Wellington? Yes he was. However I don't think it's fair to judge Jane's actions here with hindsight. It seems Jane thought she was doing what was right with the knowledge she had at the time. (Personally I was hoping they'd go try to find Wellington after stopping by Howe's to get some supplies.) But mostly the fact that they'd be looking for Wellington via trial and error just was not a good plan. With the knowledge they had then, they really could've been looking for Wellington for up to weeks, if it even existed, like Jane said. Howe's however was a known location and they could make a beeline right for it, and even if there were walkers or people there already, there would at least be a chance for them to sort through the ruins or confront the people there or something. Basically what I'm saying is we have a known camp vs. an unknown camp that might not exist, and the probability of finding the known is higher than the probability of finding the unknown.
I never noticed the whole bloodstain thing. Nice catch. Although, Telltale sometimes messes things up. For example, I have seen in Season 1 Episode 5 that when I reached the top of the hospital, Lee still had his arm even though I had just cut it off. The bloodstain may have just been someone accidentally placing the blood on Jane's character model prematurely.
Thank you. Well that's possible it was a mistake, but it looks like they animated the scene that Jane was first stabbed; most people just don't notice it because it was such a distance away from Clem, Clem was very disoriented at that moment so things are blurry, and Clem was picking up the gun at that moment. It took me forever to find a proper walkthrough that portrayed it, even though it's still difficult to see.
Start at 5:51. The first stabbing actually takes place between 6:08 to 6:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwP2Vx_bEbU
In addition, they leave the bloodstain on her model (her "character skin"? I don't know the exact terminology) for the rest of that day until they get to Howe's, where it's gone because presumably she washed it off after nine days.
Still could've been an error but you'd think someone at TT would notice after having Jane talk for a whole minute with that stain on her chest.
Please don't throw me out I'll do anything! I'll do watches for a week!
PS-She always drew good pictures for her age.
Not proud but it's necessary to point out a bad character's hypocrisy or else the thread becomes a circle jerk.
The moment the truck crashes Jane just opens the door, tells Clem to hurry and walks away. She could have easily pushed the walker with her legs. She abandons her.
She could have pushed the walker with her legs or grab the knife she had on her belt.
He went to get gas and shit hit the fan. Meanwhile Jane is trying to make Clem do what Mike and Bonnie already did a couple hours ago.
I'm starting to think that Jane is getting too "overrated". Even more than Kenny.
Because it never existed until this thread planted the idea in your mind.
Michonne is NOTHING like Jane
How is that even a statement? You don't simply get more overrated than Kenny, that isn't possible.
Awesome masterpost xD Jane isn't perfect, but she isn't a horrible person either..
Aw you guys are too sweet.
She was a well written character, but i keep going back and forth if i like her or not.
The greatest piece from an OP probably in history. Fantastic write up and analysis.
He was physically and verbally abusive, a bully drunk off the power he had as Carver's right hand, implied he'd be perfectly okay with slapping Sarah around even worse than Carlos did ("if it means I'll slap the shit out of her, then yeah"), slapped and manhandled Clementine, and then slams his gun into either Clementine's or Sarita's face unless you restrain Sarita completely.
Does this mean he's irredeemably evil? Not necessarily, but it most certainly shows in big neon letters that Troy was a horrible person. Enough that I won't say leaving him to die (which is really the issue here; whether he was shot in the balls or in the leg or anywhere else is kind of irrelevant) was "right", but that I had no sympathy for him because he had not given me a single reason to feel any.
That's not exactly all that happens. Jane gets out of the car at the same time she assumes Clem is getting out of the car. Getting out of the car was to Jane the most logical and easiest escape for both of them. I'm not sure if pushing it with her legs would be possible because it's so close to Jane and AJ (especially if the "zombies can scratch and turn you" rule is in effect here, though I don't believe the game has ever mentioned it), though maybe she could have kicked it away. Also note the walker was reaching for Jane/AJ when Jane opened her door; it wasn't reaching for Clem.
When Jane sees Clem still in the car, she says, "Fuck, get out of there!" to which Clem responds, "The door is stuck!" Jane assumed Clem's car door would open and Clem would be able to get out (as anyone would assume a car door to work). Clem then shoots the walker while Jane, with AJ in her arms, is immediately pursued by two more walkers. Jane can't really take these two down with AJ in her arms, and so she is forced to flee.
5:38
Wow, that is very high praise. Thank you very much. ^.^
Lol well you don't have to like her. I just wanted people to be able to understand her a bit better at least.
Wow so there are more Jane/Michonne threads? If so point me to them.
I loved that scene
I loved how Ben and Duck couldn't tell what it was, when clearly it's an alligator.
She wasn't surrounded by walkers.
She never said she wouldn't abandon AJ.
Pointing out these two details actually has has made your response utterly, completely, totally, 100%, absolutely, fully, wholly, fantastically, fuctardadly worthless.
A third detail, even if your "details" would have been legitimate it wouldn't POWER SLAM the entire post. It would just nibble at its heals like a yipping chiwawa.
Yes, all good points and you're right that Jane couldn't have known they were close to Wellington. Kenny wasn't the only person who thought it was there though so it wasn't like he was just some lone nut - others talked about it too. The fact that we start the entire season with Christa talking about it sets that up as something for Clem to remember. But yes, it could have seemed to Jane like it was a crazy plan without knowing exactly where they're going. But then her end plan child have resulted in herself dead, AJ dead (what if Clem hadn't heard him?) and possibly even Clem dead too because it's just weird that the writers don't tackle how she's not having blood loss problems from that gunshot wound. It's a dangerous plan. Not convinced her actions could possibly have seemed less dangerous than the four sticking together even if Wellington never existed.
But like I say, for me, that doesn't come down to the KvJ thing that it seems to for a lot of people. I really like Jane. I just think the ending made no sense and had everyone acting strangely and funnelled into bizarre choices to get there.
He was all those things but I take shooting in the balls as a pretty huge and nasty thing to do to someone (can't see how the shooting and location could possibly be irrelevant given the difference in damage it would cause). My default is that it is not justified and that nobody I would consider decent could do this unless in the most horrific of circumstances. What was set up did not show circumstances horrific enough for me. Not even close. Of all those actions you describe from Troy, shooting someone in the nads and leaving them for dead trumps every one of them on the scale of nastiness.
I hate to speak ill of Michonne, but she does have similar flaws.
In the show, when Michonne first goes to Woodbury with Rick's group to rescue Glenn and Maggie, she abandons them to find the Governor. This includes Glenn, who is pretty much beat to shit, and who is beyond a doubt weaker than Michonne at this point. Michonne abandons him as well as the rest.
And you can't argue to me that Michonne came back (yup she did come back), because then Michonne would be like Jane too in that they both came back, wouldn't she?
(tv spoilers) In addition when Michonne leaves Andrea at Woodbury the first time, it can be argued that Michonne is abandoning her. Michonne gives her an ultimatum: leave Woodbury with her or stay. From Michonne's perspective, Woodbury was not a safe place, and if she left Andrea, she'd be leaving her with the shady Governor, who we know will later cause Andrea's eventual death when she couldn't escape Woodbury or the Governor. Also don't forget Andrea was just recovering from a bad illness; she says, "Eight months. Eight months moving on the road from place to place, scavenging, living in a meat locker....I'm tired. I'm tired. I don't think I have another eight months in me, not like that," suggesting she's still somewhat not 100% well, or at the very least she's not as strong as Michonne is to take on the outside world again. (end tv spoilers)
In other words, she's weaker than Michonne. And Michonne knowingly leaves her in the shady Woodbury, saying, "You'd just slow me down anyway." Hm Andrea would slow Michonne down because she was weaker than her?
Oh and one other thing: Andrea is even worried that "you're gonna disappear," just like everyone was afraid Jane would leave in Amid the Ruins.
Although these are the worse qualities of Michonne that she shares with Jane, as I said, they also both come back as well. It's interesting because they share both their bad and their good qualities too.
of course any thread about this, will lead to kenny vs jane argument
Only a man would say that.
To be honest, I see no problem with killing someone if they're as sadistic and incompetent as Troy. Jane was pragmatic enough to kill him in a way that was both painful AND would have provided a distraction for the zombies.
Umm... only a man would say that? Because I mention nads? It wouldn't be all that great if she had done the same to a woman either. A wound in that area is going to get pretty messy regardless of gender. I don't get that comment... that only a man might think it a bad thing to shoot someone in the crotch?
What you're saying though is that if someone is sadistic, then it's okay to be MORE sadistic (did we see Troy do anything to compare with what Jane did?). That's nonsense. Then we could say that it would be fine to maim Jane then and there and leave her for dead too given that she's clearly sadistic too. And then we can do worse to whoever did that and so on until nobody is left. That's just senseless.
yeah that's why i forgive her.... xD
Lets not forget that what we know about Jane is what she told Clem .... she could have lied