lol you ask people to keep it civil in the original post yet you respond to my opinion with a confronting image and a smartass comment, get over yourself moron.
Cute.
Cussing and making little snide remarks about a character you don't like suffering is not "trolling." It's trying to be a "badass" by lacking any understanding of a situation. In other words, a child that just learned how to cuss.
lol you ask people to keep it civil in the original post yet you respond to my opinion with a confronting image and a smartass comment, get over yourself moron.
Well, considering the fact that it IS just a game with no real life consequences, and Larry was an insufferable douchebag the entire time he was with the group, I had absolutely ZERO compunction letting Kenny(who is nowhere near the ass-goblin Larry was) smash his head in. Let's not forget that Larry was all for killing Kenny's son based only on an assumption he was bitten when he wasn't. But yeah, just a game. Disclaimer: No real human beings were injured in the process of making this video game. There are no morals in a game. Merely a simulation of a fictional situation created solely for the passing of time in an entertaining fashion. Period. Clementine cannot be affected either positively or negatively because she's not real.
I'm going to follow my own advice and walk away from whatever kind of an argument this has blossomed out to be.
I find it sad that I'm ac… moretually getting pulled into a debate about the difference of a text-book definition off of a medically certified website and a statistic pulled from wherever. If you wish to continue this extremely off-topic "argument" be my guest. You know it was wrong for Kenny to smash in Larry's head. Yet, here you are picking apart my every word and trying to distract from the question you have yet to answer.
Using medical stats no one knew during the time of Larry's death is a new level of straw grasping. Kenny had no idea only blank point blank people survive a heart attack. Neither did Lee or Lilly, so the only thing fueling their judgment at the time were either paranoia (Kenny) or hope (Lee and Lilly). Nothing else.
Anyway, I'm done with this conversation.
lol you ask people to keep it civil in the original post yet you respond to my opinion with a confronting image and a smartass comment, get over yourself moron.
With the intention of saving other people in the room. There's your answer.
No, it wasn't totally morally right, and it ticked me off that Kenny gets mad at you for refusing to do it. But at least there was reasoning. Lilly wasn't going to let go of him, and we've seen cutscenes of the recently dead turning quickly, as well as attacking the nearest person before they were able to react. They had no other weapons, and if Larry had stood up as a walker it'd be pretty difficult to kill him with it.
You also have to remember that morals have a different meaning by this point. They've all gone through a lot of trauma, especially with Kenny at that yome, and not to mention the fact that Larry has tried to allow others to be killed several times. The statistics for CPR are perfectly relevant, and it wasn't fair to throw that other person's argument out.
Basically I agree with almost everything you've said. I completely agree that Larry needed to die then and quickly.
The only thing I don't agree with was the immediate need to do it. For the most part people who've died and come back as walkers don't immediately get up and lunge at people. It takes a little time and they get up slowly.
Lee and Kenny could have even stood over Larry and watched, waited for his eyes to open and begin to rise, then salt lick his face. But, that would have been risky. Waiting for him to reanimate would have been like waiting for someone to re-load, then shoot them before they could shoot you. It's stupid to take that chance.
Did Kenny need to salt lick Larry as quickly as he did? proably not, but was it the safest thing to do? YES!
Kenny was dumb enough to view it as a black and white decision between killing Larry that very second and letting him turn into a zombie tha… moret kills everyone.
Right the situation where on one hand Larry is alive the other hand he's dead and in a matter of seconds will come back as a walker will eat them all is not black and white.
The way he went about it was extremely stupid and rash, IMO.
Extremely stupid? No.
Extremely rash? Yes.
But given that corpses come back within a few seconds as walkers. He needs to make an extremely rash decision. He has doesn't have the luxury of time to decide.
At the very least he could've waited for Lee to say he was dead and then told Lee to take Lilly a safe distance away. This may have only been like 10 seconds away from happening. It wasn't likely to make a big difference in the matter
It takes less than 10 seconds for a walker to get up grab someone, and chomp down … [view original content]
I find the sene itself brilliantly done in that there never really is a RIGHT answer and best of all you never fully know if either choice was correct. Larry takes a breath after the CPR, but is it a breath of life or reanimation? We don't know and that is the genius of this plot point. Was it Morally wrong to kill Larry, yes. Was it a good idea as a precaution, also yes. I felt like Lee when he says in response to Kenny's question later, "You're not a bad guy Kenny, but what the (explitive deleted) are we gonna do now?" Kenny's solution was a short term one and it's long term results led to the decay of Lilly's sanity and judgement and indirectly helped cause Carley/Doug's death later on.
I never choose to kill Larry because I play Lee to character and I feel his character would not have gone along with killing Larry if there was a chance he could make it. Certainly not with Lilly literally hugging her Father and Clem being right there.
All this being said I certainly want a set of episodes with Lilly as the main character. She would have the trauma aspect, haunted past and plenty of grey area to work with as a main character.
Whenever someone turns in the walking dead game, their skin turns grey. Even people who died very recently had grey skin when they turned. Larry's skin was not grey. That should be enough proof that he didn't turn.
Yes!.. what if he didn't end Larry's life and Larry died and turned into a walker and bit someone? Should they just allow that to happen just so they remain moral? Wouldn't you end someones life to save your own or your families?
Nothing. It wasn't his call. If it were up to me, he should have had the saltlick ready, then Lilly and Lee start trying to revive Larry. If he turns, THEN crush his head in.
He stopped breathing. It had been established many times that he's the physically strongest of the group. If we did do the "moral" thing and wait for him to turn, how much harder would that have been to accomplish? How many lives would have been lost in that cellar? Are you willing to risk it over the small chance that CPR will work on a heart attack patient? I wasn't, and neither was Kenny. Besides, Larry sealed his own fate after he kept uselessly banging on that door after everyone told him to stop and everyone in that room, including him, knew that stress like that might be the end of him. It was. I have absolutely no regrets for doing what had to be done.
It was multiple things factoring into how wrong it was.
First and foremost, three out of the four people said not to kill Larry. Meaning Kenny should've respected that and not enacted his plan anyways. Now, if he wanted to take necessary precautions to ensure things didn't get too out-of-hand, fine. Grab the saltlick and prop it up on one of the shelving units that was only two or three feet from where Larry was at. Be prepared, but be diligent. Wait for a sign that Larry was reanimating. Signs of raspy breathing, pale skin discoloration, fingers twitching, etc.
Secondly, I wouldn't have held the incident in the meat locker against Kenny as harshly if his actions after showed sympathy and consolidation toward Lilly's pain. It wouldn't have made the action any better, but at least he could've tried to comfort her. No, he continued being an asshole toward Lilly and constantly provoking her. There was a part at the end of episode 2 when Kenny says "we can feed everyone with the supplies here." Lilly then sorrowfully says "not everyone." Kenny then makes an expression like as if he was pissed she would dare hold something that happened only an hour ago against him.
Kenny's action, not only in the locker, but outside of it shows just how petty he is towards others' suffering. Hell, Lee gets attacked right after the locker by Danny and Kenny is just sitting in a dark corner waiting for Lee to die. I didn't see him fighting for his family's safety then.
He stopped breathing. It had been established many times that he's the physically strongest of the group. If we did do the "moral" thing and… more wait for him to turn, how much harder would that have been to accomplish? How many lives would have been lost in that cellar? Are you willing to risk it over the small chance that CPR will work on a heart attack patient? I wasn't, and neither was Kenny. Besides, Larry sealed his own fate after he kept uselessly banging on that door after everyone told him to stop and everyone in that room, including him, knew that stress like that might be the end of him. It was. I have absolutely no regrets for doing what had to be done.
"Kenny's action, not only in the locker, but outside of it shows just how petty he is towards others' suffering. Hell, Lee gets attacked right after the locker by Danny and Kenny is just sitting in a dark corner waiting for Lee to die. I didn't see him fighting for his family's safety then."
That is biased perspective, based on your choice. In my playthrough, I backed Kenny in the locker and he helped me against Danny, while Lilly just stood there and waited for me to get killed by Andy. So I could argue that Lilly is being a bitch in this case. It's dependant on your choice and the characters are not each fixed in "asshole" mode.
It was multiple things factoring into how wrong it was.
First and foremost, three out of the four people said not to kill Larry. Meaning … moreKenny should've respected that and not enacted his plan anyways. Now, if he wanted to take necessary precautions to ensure things didn't get too out-of-hand, fine. Grab the saltlick and prop it up on one of the shelving units that was only two or three feet from where Larry was at. Be prepared, but be diligent. Wait for a sign that Larry was reanimating. Signs of raspy breathing, pale skin discoloration, fingers twitching, etc.
Secondly, I wouldn't have held the incident in the meat locker against Kenny as harshly if his actions after showed sympathy and consolidation toward Lilly's pain. It wouldn't have made the action any better, but at least he could've tried to comfort her. No, he continued being an asshole toward Lilly and constantly provoking her. There was a part at the end of episode 2 when Ke… [view original content]
Troll ? If Larry would have revived he would be more trouble than a normal walker, Kenny's actions made much more sense than you're implying, I didn't even side with Kenny on that one.
what is morally right about letting a father kill his daughter as a zombie?
i think you can debate about how many seconds you should wait after a guy dies before stopping him from turning, or how you should deal with their family, but a guy with a serious heart condition that has no pulse is dead, and (in the walking dead universe) will turn into a zombie in an undetermined amount of time, so either you let him turn and potentially kill everyone or you take him out before he turned.
also, releasing breath after CPR doesn't mean anything accept he released breath (that was breathed into him) CPR won't start a heart (or put it back into rhythm) after a serious heart attack, all it would do is keep his brain alive until paramedics arrived, and because paramedics won't arrive ever it was just futile and distressing to continue.
Which does not matter. What matters is what Kenny knows at the time
The only dead body Kenny knew at the time that turned into a walker was the body of the PE teacher. And what he knew is that Katja said that person was dead, and a few seconds later it rose up really quickly and grabbed for her.
With only that knowledge, Larry not moving or breathing, and the situation they were in, Kenny made a reasonable choice.
Heya Snags..
Basically I agree with almost everything you've said. I completely agree that Larry needed to die then and quickly.
The … moreonly thing I don't agree with was the immediate need to do it. For the most part people who've died and come back as walkers don't immediately get up and lunge at people. It takes a little time and they get up slowly.
Lee and Kenny could have even stood over Larry and watched, waited for his eyes to open and begin to rise, then salt lick his face. But, that would have been risky. Waiting for him to reanimate would have been like waiting for someone to re-load, then shoot them before they could shoot you. It's stupid to take that chance.
Did Kenny need to salt lick Larry as quickly as he did? proably not, but was it the safest thing to do? YES!
Troll ? If Larry would have revived he would be more trouble than a normal walker, Kenny's actions made much more sense than you're implying, I didn't even side with Kenny on that one.
Only partially. The part about Kenny being an asshole to Lilly isn't. He was continuously very rude toward her when he should've been sympathizing and trying to console her loss. He even goes as far as to throw a tantrum and declare "why am I always the bad guy?" It's like c'mon Kenny! You're not a child anymore. If you make a decision, be prepared to face the consequence. He wanted to be nullified from any and all responsibility. But like Kenny quite hypocritically stated, "That's not how it works!"
"Kenny's action, not only in the locker, but outside of it shows just how petty he is towards others' suffering. Hell, Lee gets attacked rig… moreht after the locker by Danny and Kenny is just sitting in a dark corner waiting for Lee to die. I didn't see him fighting for his family's safety then."
That is biased perspective, based on your choice. In my playthrough, I backed Kenny in the locker and he helped me against Danny, while Lilly just stood there and waited for me to get killed by Andy. So I could argue that Lilly is being a bitch in this case. It's dependant on your choice and the characters are not each fixed in "asshole" mode.
Maybe it was rushed. It would have been better to let them try to revive him. But what if he was in fact dead? (and It's very likely he was)
He might have attacked Lee, and Lily would be in no condition to help him out. It would be incredibly hard to kill him after he stood up, because those saltlick things things are friggin heavy.
He might well have killed anyone in that meat locker, including Clementine, if Kenny hadn't done the dirty job. And maybe he could've waited a little longer, but those mere seconds could have meant the death of every person in the room.
I'm not even going into detail with Jane, let's just say I agree with Kenny way more.
And it was obvious that Kenny would get all the shit from the community. If Lee had done it himself, then noone would even talk about the topic anymore.
Kenny can be an ass, yes, and you'll notice that I'm not defending his personality as a whole. But I stand by my statement that the decision to side with him in the meatlocker was the right one, all things considered. You could argue that the situation could have been approached differently than the choices we were given, but that's not how it works either. You have two and you must pick one. Same as you can't take half the meds from Arvo. You take it all, or you leave it. And in the meatlocker you have the option to try a potentially futile CPR on a person who could probably overpower and kill at least one, if not all of you, once he awakens (remember, no viable weapons in that locker and saltlicks aren't particularly wieldy when the enemy isn't lying still) OR you could throw the risks out the window and dispose of him there and then. Simple.
That is biased perspective, based on your choice.
Only partially. The part about Kenny being an asshole to Lilly isn't. He was conti… morenuously very rude toward her when he should've been sympathizing and trying to console her loss. He even goes as far as to throw a tantrum and declare "why am I always the bad guy?" It's like c'mon Kenny! You're not a child anymore. If you make a decision, be prepared to face the consequence. He wanted to be nullified from any and all responsibility. But like Kenny quite hypocritically stated, "That's not how it works!"
When replaying this scene the decision feels more like:
Will you do the right thing and save Larry, who dies anyway and become closer with Lilly who will help you only to leave the next episode or will you let Lilly watch the demise of her father by aiding Kenny, who will be there with you for the long run or will you choose not to do anything and screw everyone else.
I agree, based on the information they had, they acted on it and I helped Kenny do it.
I did find it a little silly that they survived for 3 month's and in that time never learned more about how this all work's. Really Ben and his teacher were the first people they've interacted with? I guess it's possible, just very unlikely.
Either way, I agree with what Lee and Kenny did and for their reason's.
Which does not matter. What matters is what Kenny knows at the time
The only dead body Kenny knew at the time that turned into a walker w… moreas the body of the PE teacher. And what he knew is that Katja said that person was dead, and a few seconds later it rose up really quickly and grabbed for her.
With only that knowledge, Larry not moving or breathing, and the situation they were in, Kenny made a reasonable choice.
To the OP of this thread, what would you do in that situation?
I'm not saying it was a good thing Kenny did but if it was me, i don't think i'd risk trying to revive someone who could come back as a walker at any moment after they stop breathing. Giving mouth to mouth for them to wake up and bite your mouth off is a scary thought. People may not agree but i would side with Kenny in this situation although i'd hate doing it.
because kenny is happiest when he smashing someones face in look at carver and later at that walker at parker run he looks so happy at lest he has a hobby
What makes it worse is that Kenny calls Lilly a murderer after he only recently killed her dad, Larry. She did kill Doug/Carley, but it's the fact that she was called a murderer by a murderer.
Comments
lol you ask people to keep it civil in the original post yet you respond to my opinion with a confronting image and a smartass comment, get over yourself moron.
Everyone'sClemInTime and Legendary12, please try to behave regardless of who started an argument. Thanks.
Well, considering the fact that it IS just a game with no real life consequences, and Larry was an insufferable douchebag the entire time he was with the group, I had absolutely ZERO compunction letting Kenny(who is nowhere near the ass-goblin Larry was) smash his head in. Let's not forget that Larry was all for killing Kenny's son based only on an assumption he was bitten when he wasn't. But yeah, just a game. Disclaimer: No real human beings were injured in the process of making this video game. There are no morals in a game. Merely a simulation of a fictional situation created solely for the passing of time in an entertaining fashion. Period. Clementine cannot be affected either positively or negatively because she's not real.
I thought it seemed messed up to kill Larry.
UH OH. DID SOMEBODY SAY..... BOAT?!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pYx1ey5UzTc
Ugh what kind of putrid mindless music is that, sounds like a pig getting molested.
The best kind.
Ok then.
With the intention of saving other people in the room. There's your answer.
No, it wasn't totally morally right, and it ticked me off that Kenny gets mad at you for refusing to do it. But at least there was reasoning. Lilly wasn't going to let go of him, and we've seen cutscenes of the recently dead turning quickly, as well as attacking the nearest person before they were able to react. They had no other weapons, and if Larry had stood up as a walker it'd be pretty difficult to kill him with it.
You also have to remember that morals have a different meaning by this point. They've all gone through a lot of trauma, especially with Kenny at that yome, and not to mention the fact that Larry has tried to allow others to be killed several times. The statistics for CPR are perfectly relevant, and it wasn't fair to throw that other person's argument out.
Heya Snags..
Basically I agree with almost everything you've said. I completely agree that Larry needed to die then and quickly.
The only thing I don't agree with was the immediate need to do it. For the most part people who've died and come back as walkers don't immediately get up and lunge at people. It takes a little time and they get up slowly.
Lee and Kenny could have even stood over Larry and watched, waited for his eyes to open and begin to rise, then salt lick his face. But, that would have been risky. Waiting for him to reanimate would have been like waiting for someone to re-load, then shoot them before they could shoot you. It's stupid to take that chance.
Did Kenny need to salt lick Larry as quickly as he did? proably not, but was it the safest thing to do? YES!
I find the sene itself brilliantly done in that there never really is a RIGHT answer and best of all you never fully know if either choice was correct. Larry takes a breath after the CPR, but is it a breath of life or reanimation? We don't know and that is the genius of this plot point. Was it Morally wrong to kill Larry, yes. Was it a good idea as a precaution, also yes. I felt like Lee when he says in response to Kenny's question later, "You're not a bad guy Kenny, but what the (explitive deleted) are we gonna do now?" Kenny's solution was a short term one and it's long term results led to the decay of Lilly's sanity and judgement and indirectly helped cause Carley/Doug's death later on.
I never choose to kill Larry because I play Lee to character and I feel his character would not have gone along with killing Larry if there was a chance he could make it. Certainly not with Lilly literally hugging her Father and Clem being right there.
All this being said I certainly want a set of episodes with Lilly as the main character. She would have the trauma aspect, haunted past and plenty of grey area to work with as a main character.
Whenever someone turns in the walking dead game, their skin turns grey. Even people who died very recently had grey skin when they turned. Larry's skin was not grey. That should be enough proof that he didn't turn.
So you agree with what Ben did then?
Nothing. It wasn't his call. If it were up to me, he should have had the saltlick ready, then Lilly and Lee start trying to revive Larry. If he turns, THEN crush his head in.
He stopped breathing. It had been established many times that he's the physically strongest of the group. If we did do the "moral" thing and wait for him to turn, how much harder would that have been to accomplish? How many lives would have been lost in that cellar? Are you willing to risk it over the small chance that CPR will work on a heart attack patient? I wasn't, and neither was Kenny. Besides, Larry sealed his own fate after he kept uselessly banging on that door after everyone told him to stop and everyone in that room, including him, knew that stress like that might be the end of him. It was. I have absolutely no regrets for doing what had to be done.
It was multiple things factoring into how wrong it was.
First and foremost, three out of the four people said not to kill Larry. Meaning Kenny should've respected that and not enacted his plan anyways. Now, if he wanted to take necessary precautions to ensure things didn't get too out-of-hand, fine. Grab the saltlick and prop it up on one of the shelving units that was only two or three feet from where Larry was at. Be prepared, but be diligent. Wait for a sign that Larry was reanimating. Signs of raspy breathing, pale skin discoloration, fingers twitching, etc.
Secondly, I wouldn't have held the incident in the meat locker against Kenny as harshly if his actions after showed sympathy and consolidation toward Lilly's pain. It wouldn't have made the action any better, but at least he could've tried to comfort her. No, he continued being an asshole toward Lilly and constantly provoking her. There was a part at the end of episode 2 when Kenny says "we can feed everyone with the supplies here." Lilly then sorrowfully says "not everyone." Kenny then makes an expression like as if he was pissed she would dare hold something that happened only an hour ago against him.
Kenny's action, not only in the locker, but outside of it shows just how petty he is towards others' suffering. Hell, Lee gets attacked right after the locker by Danny and Kenny is just sitting in a dark corner waiting for Lee to die. I didn't see him fighting for his family's safety then.
That's why it's morally wrong.
If you think so, that's fine. It just seems silly to pose the question when you have a predisposed answer.
"Kenny's action, not only in the locker, but outside of it shows just how petty he is towards others' suffering. Hell, Lee gets attacked right after the locker by Danny and Kenny is just sitting in a dark corner waiting for Lee to die. I didn't see him fighting for his family's safety then."
That is biased perspective, based on your choice. In my playthrough, I backed Kenny in the locker and he helped me against Danny, while Lilly just stood there and waited for me to get killed by Andy. So I could argue that Lilly is being a bitch in this case. It's dependant on your choice and the characters are not each fixed in "asshole" mode.
Troll ? If Larry would have revived he would be more trouble than a normal walker, Kenny's actions made much more sense than you're implying, I didn't even side with Kenny on that one.
what is morally right about letting a father kill his daughter as a zombie?
i think you can debate about how many seconds you should wait after a guy dies before stopping him from turning, or how you should deal with their family, but a guy with a serious heart condition that has no pulse is dead, and (in the walking dead universe) will turn into a zombie in an undetermined amount of time, so either you let him turn and potentially kill everyone or you take him out before he turned.
also, releasing breath after CPR doesn't mean anything accept he released breath (that was breathed into him) CPR won't start a heart (or put it back into rhythm) after a serious heart attack, all it would do is keep his brain alive until paramedics arrived, and because paramedics won't arrive ever it was just futile and distressing to continue.
Which does not matter. What matters is what Kenny knows at the time
The only dead body Kenny knew at the time that turned into a walker was the body of the PE teacher. And what he knew is that Katja said that person was dead, and a few seconds later it rose up really quickly and grabbed for her.
With only that knowledge, Larry not moving or breathing, and the situation they were in, Kenny made a reasonable choice.
No, "Troll Toll."
It's "boy's soul" Frank...
Only partially. The part about Kenny being an asshole to Lilly isn't. He was continuously very rude toward her when he should've been sympathizing and trying to console her loss. He even goes as far as to throw a tantrum and declare "why am I always the bad guy?" It's like c'mon Kenny! You're not a child anymore. If you make a decision, be prepared to face the consequence. He wanted to be nullified from any and all responsibility. But like Kenny quite hypocritically stated, "That's not how it works!"
Maybe it was rushed. It would have been better to let them try to revive him. But what if he was in fact dead? (and It's very likely he was)
He might have attacked Lee, and Lily would be in no condition to help him out. It would be incredibly hard to kill him after he stood up, because those saltlick things things are friggin heavy.
He might well have killed anyone in that meat locker, including Clementine, if Kenny hadn't done the dirty job. And maybe he could've waited a little longer, but those mere seconds could have meant the death of every person in the room.
I'm not even going into detail with Jane, let's just say I agree with Kenny way more.
And it was obvious that Kenny would get all the shit from the community. If Lee had done it himself, then noone would even talk about the topic anymore.
Kenny can be an ass, yes, and you'll notice that I'm not defending his personality as a whole. But I stand by my statement that the decision to side with him in the meatlocker was the right one, all things considered. You could argue that the situation could have been approached differently than the choices we were given, but that's not how it works either. You have two and you must pick one. Same as you can't take half the meds from Arvo. You take it all, or you leave it. And in the meatlocker you have the option to try a potentially futile CPR on a person who could probably overpower and kill at least one, if not all of you, once he awakens (remember, no viable weapons in that locker and saltlicks aren't particularly wieldy when the enemy isn't lying still) OR you could throw the risks out the window and dispose of him there and then. Simple.
When replaying this scene the decision feels more like:
Will you do the right thing and save Larry, who dies anyway and become closer with Lilly who will help you only to leave the next episode or will you let Lilly watch the demise of her father by aiding Kenny, who will be there with you for the long run or will you choose not to do anything and screw everyone else.
I agree, based on the information they had, they acted on it and I helped Kenny do it.
I did find it a little silly that they survived for 3 month's and in that time never learned more about how this all work's. Really Ben and his teacher were the first people they've interacted with? I guess it's possible, just very unlikely.
Either way, I agree with what Lee and Kenny did and for their reason's.
To the OP of this thread, what would you do in that situation?
I'm not saying it was a good thing Kenny did but if it was me, i don't think i'd risk trying to revive someone who could come back as a walker at any moment after they stop breathing. Giving mouth to mouth for them to wake up and bite your mouth off is a scary thought. People may not agree but i would side with Kenny in this situation although i'd hate doing it.
because kenny is happiest when he smashing someones face in look at carver and later at that walker at parker run he looks so happy at lest he has a hobby