Why all this hatred against Jane?
I can not understand all this hatred against her ...
In the world of TWD, Jane is in my opinion the most clever and perfect character that you might think. It is true, her methods are "selfish" and dangerous, but they are the right methods! Unfortunately there is no kindness in TWD.
Take example from Rick, who is managing to survive and to survive his group. How? Not trusting anybody! But still remain protective for his group, just like Jane. This is how my Clem should be. And Walter? Betrayed by his own kindness? Only a few will be able to understand my point of view, because I know it is "not-human", but it is the best way to not turn into a mindless cannibal.
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Shes not really more or less flawed than any other TWD character. However her flaws were (and are still) brutally attacked in a way most other characters' aren't.
Sadly, there is a part of this relating to the KDB. Many of the KDB thought Luke was the most evil guy ever, that he was trying to put clem at risk, that he hated the group and that he was a paedophile.
And this hatred started, surprise surprise, after Kenny expressed dislike for him in episode 2.
Onto Jane, who was hardly universally loved, but not hated that much in episodes 3 and 4. She starts arguing with Kenny in episode 5 and blam, shes evil, is using clementine and is probably a cannibal or something.
Its not a coincidence that the same people making unreasoned arguments about why Jane is evil and satan are the same who loathed Luke for no reason after episode 2, and not one that they are the members who parrot Kenny's racism without a second thought.
The pattern is that if telltale put a clear choice between kenny and another caracter, which makes the feud seem important (Sit with luke/kenny, side with kenny/jane) then the opposer shall be attacked until a new one presents themselves. This is how being overprotective works really - we attack all threats in every way we can possibly think of, which leads to nonsense arguments. In real life this sort of thing would almost be sweet, but when a character who is clearly intended to be flawed is held up as a god then something's afoot.
It's a shame because the vast majority of Kenny fans around here are reasoned and cool people. Just so happens that the most vocal people are often the most aggressive.
Regardless, I shan't be returning to this thread and I suggest you don't either - the hate you'll get for a post like this shall likely be overwhelming. This is a forum on which a thread which asked all Jane fans to be put to death got 15 likes.
Well i don't care for jane, i'm not that extreme. I just found her character unrealistic, she is supposed to be this closed off survivor type, then she spills her heart out to Clementine, after the first day of knowing her, LOL ok. Then she talked shit about everyone in the entire group. I think if they would of made her less "hardcore" she would of been more relatable, and probably less hated imo.
That's poor writing, and applies to all season 2 characters - it does not mean Jane is a bad person, any more than Carlos asking how big the little house was made him an unintelligent man.
I'd say it partially that and partially the last act Jane has onscreen is negative and for many she is still alive. people seem to forgive characters once their dead or they do something positive in the future.
Look at Bonnie, hated after 400 days and liked in episode 3 and 4 and hated again after 5
Kenny as well did plenty off crap in season 1 and was called out for it but he ended the season he "saves" ben and and as such is loved.
I don't blame any of the characters at this point. man. The writing is what it was, but it did influence how i felt about the characters when i played the game at the time. Now looking back, i found her character to be uninteresting/ not realistic, compared to Kenny, where i could see myself saying some of the things he says.
Especially the line.
"What's Wrong with Kenny, WHy is Kenny acting this way." LOL
Jane ain't perfect, she got flaws. The flaws makes her a bad person.
That's where the hatred is coming from. If you like being cold, selfish, deceptive all the time then that's your choice.
her survival techniques aren't perfect if you ask me. and Jane didn't teach Clementine much.
Are you kidding? There's been plenty forum members here calling out for Kenny's head since his return in A HOUSE DIVIDED. Rest assured he doesn't catch a break either.
I just don't like her overall personality, shes the kind of person i wouldn't want to be around even BEFORE the apocalypse
I'm seeing more of ignoring Jane than the hatred on her. Like the topics "what would you pick XX or XX". After S2, her personality just seems to suit getting along with Clem and that's pretty much it. Yeah she had sex with Luke, but that relationship was rocky at best and everyone else she would just distance herself away from. I know that's part of her character, but still it didn't feel like she tried up until the very end. Along with that, her many "bad decisions" started to add up. People would just prefer to be around someone else than someone like that. That all being said I still liked her and thought she was a perfect addition to TWD.
Seems like I´m in the minority but I really liked her. Found the Kenny vs Jenny really pointless and silly.
I honestly think people made a big deal out of what she did.
And I´m a big Kenny fan as well.
Probably better to let myself out now...
Do you really need to ask? A thread like this is bound to get locked anyway...
Not going to say much about Jane, because I don't hate her, I just think she's unstable.
I'm not talking about "I'm going to kill someone in the group" unstable, but she left a newborn in a snowstorm to prove a point. Sure, Jane has some pros about her and that's for damn sure -- she is able to survive and has a loner mentality which can be helpful, especially since it is a zombie apocalypse. I can't judge her for giving Clem a sip of alcohol or anything like that, but.
Dude, she left a baby in a snowstorm.
Jane gets tons of hate because of her ideology, (Not caring for others) and hiding a baby in a snowstorm.
I'm in the minority here but I really like Jane's character and she's becoming my favorite character that came out of season two.
Because Jane is an asshole. Contrary to popular belief, you can survive without being a selfish asshole. TWD will show you otherwise for storyline purposes (Telltale and Kirkman just don't believe in morally just characters), but that doesn't automatically make it the law of the land.
I disliked Jane but hated Kenny, sufficed to say I at least see where Jane could've been a relatively interesting character if not for the constant forcible conflict TT made her act on Kenny's behalf to make the last face off happen.
Again; much like Sarah, Pete, Carver, Carlos, and Nick she had promise but was eventually just grating and annoying and I stopped caring all together.
The worse thing Jane did: Left a baby in a car while she tried to get rid of a dangerous man from further indirectly harming said baby and Clementine. A stupid plan from the beginning, but one that at least has qualities of redeemable characteristics.
The worse thing Kenny did: Savagely murdered an unconscious man in front of his scarred daughter and a eight year old child on a hunch, then constantly bullied the same grieving daughter with malicious precision and unflinching confidence that he must be in the right simply 'cause. And of course, that one tragic event spun out into even more general evilness from him like suggesting Lee drop Ben from the tower rather than help aid him. A bit harder to feel compassion for him than Jane.
That's why people hate Ken. People only hate Jane cause she raised her voice to Kenny that one time and challenged his "authority." And none of the super sensitive Kenny hype-men can have his character called into question within the universe.
That's probably because he [Kenny] consistently does awful things. Jane on the other hand does one thing wrong and everyone hates her for it but she becomes "unforgivable."
Dude, you really need to find another topic to expend all your energy on, because this is getting out of hand.
"One thing wrong?" I know Jane's admirers love to criticize Kenny's fans as being deluded, but isn't that just a somewhat hypocritical thing to say of a woman who intentionally knocked around with a guy who was supposed to be watching out for any marauding zombies?
"One thing wrong" was sarcasm, I'm saying if her character does anything wrong she becomes hated. You can argue the same with Kenny, but like I said his is a consistent stream of negative actions.
I'm not saying Jane is really any better than him, but the minimal amount of actions she's performed compared to the amount of hate she gets is staggering.
she just seemed like a carbon copy of molly
Telltale could of added Molly in season 2 instead.
I think there is dislike with her actions and how she presents herself. I don't hate her and I kind of understood what she did in the last episode. I think she isn't in a good place and her personality doesn't garner sympathy and love for her character, maybe in the same way Sarah or Kenny does for some other people.
I'm the opposite side of the same coin you're flipping.
You talk all the time about the guy too, don't act so innocent.
And you find it pretty easy to excuse the outright psychotic thing Jane did at the end b/c she had 'good intentions,' yet when Lily's father has a heart attack while locked in a freezer with the entire group, (including said 8-year-old,) making sure this huge man can't come back and kill all of them with the only tools he has is "savage murder?" Someone's deluded here.
Kenny is no saint, but Jane sure as hell isn't Mother Teresa either. Each character can find a way to rationalize their actions as being for the 'good of the group' or survival, that is the entire fucking point of TWDG– to see how far you are willing to go to survive.
And you should know that, it should be *worst not worse for future reference. "Worse" is like saying 'the better thing Jane did' instead of 'the best thing,' which is not what I think you meant.
Can you show me where exactly I said Jane was Mother Teresa or that her "good intentions" meant she was immune from criticism? Cause I can't find it, maybe you're jumping to conclusions?
I'm making a comparison between how much fucked up shit Kenny has done and how much death he's cause as a result and how Jane did one carelessly thick-headed action to get rid of a threatening individual. She has been overrun with hatred not because of any reason other than her directly opposing "master Kenny."
I thought Jane was great.
No, but you did say the only reason she is being criticized is because of her opposition to Kenny, rather than her own questionable actions and (for many) unlikeable personality which is presumptuous on your part, and ignorant of the fact that Jane's final action was not just 'one moment of stupidity' but rather a telling example of her own deeply flawed character.
Also keep in mind, Kenny has been around for almost 2 full seasons , while Jane has only been present for part of one, so of course Kenny has amassed more questionable and outright fucked-up actions because he's had much more screen-time to do so. You can't say if Jane had been around since S1 that she'd not have committed as many violent/stupid acts, so tallying them up doesn't make sense.
I'm really confused why people rag on about Jane's "selfishness". Yes, she constantly goes on about how “looking out for yourself” is key to survival, but anyone with eyes could see that Jane rarely puts that philosophy into practice. Actions speak louder than words.
She goes back to help Rebecca in the herd. She stays with the group during Episode 4 despite having literally nothing to gain from this. She steals from Arvo, not for personal gain, but purely to help the group’s injured. She is the only person who tries to help Sarah at the deck, and the only one who reacts to Sarah’s 2nd death at all. She saves the entire group from the Russians.
And, hilariously enough, she is the first person who tells Clem that the group has to help Kenny deal with his loss. Even if you, as Clem, tell her that Kenny is too far gone, Jane will insist that they have to try to help him anyways instead of simply writing him off. It’s not until Kenny destroys the group (at least from her perspective) that Jane decides he needs to go.
Seems to me that Jane wants to be selfish. Her experiences have taught her that helping other people never ends well. But she can’t help but get attached to other people anyway and want to help them, even if it’ll be a detriment to her survival (she’s a lot like Christa in that regard).
Y’know what, it’s fine to hate Jane. But there are better reasons to hate her than her supposed “selfishness” because, really, Jane isn’t all that selfish.
As well, even though she tells you to leave Sarah, she'll stay behind to help if you help Sarah.
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Hell, Jane is the last one to get out of the trailer in that scenario.
No, I'm not. I was here for all of season 2, and I know (from many people telling me themselves in PMs) that they didn't feel comfortable expressing any dislike of Kenny because they would be violently attacked here by a couple of posters.
The choice at the end of season 2 gave them the confidence to speak out, which they lacked before, which is why dislike ofKenny was around far more after episode 5.
But episodes 2-4 is when the whole 'Kenny is god' 'urban urban boat boat' 'lets worsip his voice actor who doesn't want t be worshipped' phase happened. It wasn't conducive to discussion.
Again, I'm not saying Jane isn't flawed. But her flaws are more reasonable.
Kenny can straight up murder an unconscious man for, what he describes, was to protect his family. But then immediately can sit back in a stall as Lee is about to be gunned down by a fucking cannibal and still goes on afterwards to bully the grieving daughter and gets pissy with the same man who only moments ago helped... sorry, I mean did all the work in rescuing his family. His actions in that particular scenario don't quite add up to his intention.
Jane does hide a baby like a goof in order to rid a man she considers a threat. However, in both choices that are given, her story adds up that her intention was to help Clementine by way of sending Kenny's mental stability over the edge. Kenny's actions do not make sense which Is why it's much easier to be hateful towards him. If he had killed Larry, yet helped Lee after with the cannibals then tried showing remorse for his actions, I'd be willing to let him slide a bit, but no. He's a douche.
I started to hate jane back at the end of episode 4 and even more in episode 5 she only cared about herself and one thing for sure she become a ahole and lied and said alvain died to prove a point she should be dead
See this is one of the illogical reasons for hating Jane.
She shows constantly that she doesn't only care about herself. If she only cared about herself she would have abandoned the group as soon as she escaped Howe's.
Jane rescues Clem from the water, and runs, carrying her, on a frozen lake that is breaking up, putting her life significantly at risk. She then puts clem right in front of the fire and immediately tries to light it.
She also saves Kenny's life.
She clearly does care.
The only reason this cause for dislike is ever given now is because it's what Kenny says in the car, and parroting what Kenny says is a favourite of his fans. His reason for saying that is not based on logic - he was pissed off and made up a reason to dislike her in desperation.
It wasn't only his physical perception which was damaged after losing his eye.
On a hunch that could have meant life or death. You need to stop looking at it so lightly, it isn't as easy a decision as you make it out to be.
I love Jane unfortunately.
So much so in fact that I asked if I could leave with her in episode 4. Which makes her actions in episode 5 completely pointless. All she had to do was ask: "Hey Clem, wanna go?" :P
I think she did what she did to be sure. She knew Clem knew Kenny for a long time, and wasn't certain if she had given her an ultimatum that she'd go with her. Not saying what she did was right, but I get why she did it. In the end I didn't want either of them to die, nor would I want to choose between the 2. If Jane had given me the ultimatum, I honestly couldn't say I'd go with her, 100%. It'd be a difficult decision for sure. Also, Kenny wouldn't let Clem and Jane just go off with AJ, there would definitely be some sort of confrontation over who would take him.
I personally love Jane. Everything she did or said was understandable. The whole "what are you going to do with it?", some can say that she's a baby killer, or that she hates babies. I took it as a reasonable question. They're living in the TWD, zombies are everywhere, and she knows that it'll be damn near impossible to raise a baby on the run. She also gets hate (for what, I have no clue) because she talks about her sister Jaime. But I like to think that she was bottling all of that in, and finally found someone to talk about it with. Another would be the kissing stuff she did with Luke. I did not have a problem with that. I was actually happy for both of them. Her leaving the group could be another reason. But, I got why she left. She barely knew anyone, and didn't owe anyone anything. Well maybe she could've told Luke she was leaving, he was so upset. And finally the AJ debacle. I get why she did it, but I can't condone it.
You've brought up Jane's actions being understandable a few times, but why are her flaws more reasonable than Kenny's?
I could definitely see Jane abandoning, if not killing any one of the above characters in these situations.
Also why is Lily the 'poor, grieving daughter' when she herself murdered an innocent person, and didn't even think her life was in danger at the time? Kenny was just as emotionally unstable as her, (if not worse) when he tried to kill Jane, who at the time falsely led him to believe she just caused the death of a baby he had grown incredibly attached to.
All I can say at this point is your rationale behind vilifying Kenny more than Jane or Lily is extremely flawed and biased; whether or not you'll realize this is beyond my help.
Because it's a shitty character that caters to feminist tumblrinas with braindead ideologies. How else is Telltale going to be hailed as a progressive company if it isn't by having a black kid be raised by two moms.
Pierre Shorette, Ph.D in Women's Studies and Basket Weaving.