OK, I appreciate all the compliments, but let's get some discussion going.
When Jane came without the baby, did you believe her, or did you catch on that something wasn't right? I personally thought she had genuinely lost AJ.
Yeah, banking on Clem shooting Kenny was a massive gamble. Again, one that didn't seem to fit with Jane's earlier pragmatism. And it seems many people here didn't shoot Kenny (I did).
But yes, I agree that until shown the baby Kenny would have had a very hard time believing Jane. The first assumption would be that she is buying time. But that little doubt - what if she was telling the truth and only she knew where he was? Then killing Jane could cause AJ's death. So yes, hard to believe I agree. But enough to stall him. Enough to save her life.
I guess the bottom line for me is that I see what you're saying and I agree with many of the points about what certain characters would have been thinking but, for me personally, Jane's lack of survival instinct in that scene didn't reconcile with the Jane we knew before that.
One pretty huge reason - it might just save her life.
I mean that Kenny could not have any reason to believe her.
And like you… more said in that other thread, she could have even made it to the car to show the proof. Even without that, had Clem heard her say it, Clem could have got Kenny's attention even better.
Yes, this is all true. Clem could have got Kenny´s attention easily, she always does, but Jane thougth Clem could shoot Kenny because she picked up the gun. When this scenario makes no sense his when you don´t pick out the gun-in there, Jane does not even ask for help and does not even try to tell Kenny AJ was alive. But it you do pick up the gun, is far for implausible she did not try to ask Kenny for help.
Jane was FAR smarter than that right up until that last scene.
Yes, that´s true.
Flog61 summed it up pretty well, please stick to a civil discussion as stipulated in the guidelines above and please don't troll the thread … moreby saying that the Kenny ending is the "right decision".
Refrain from posts that refer to an ending objectively being better over another ending - or posts that insinuate an ending is "wrong" or "right."
When Jane came without the baby, did you believe her, or did you catch on that something wasn't right? I personally thought she had genuinely lost AJ.
I knew she was shady ever since she shot Troy in the Penis, she did it in such a way that was so casual, it was like she did it many times before. At that moment i knew she was untrustworthy. A chick that shoots a man in the wiener, i want nothing to do with. You just don't shoot a guy in the junk.
Luke is a braver man than I. A lot braver, or possibly just really despie.
OK, I appreciate all the compliments, but let's get some discussion going.
When Jane came without the baby, did you believe her, or did you catch on that something wasn't right? I personally thought she had genuinely lost AJ.
The most prominent reason why being the fact that he never says it.
The only way you could therefore get that impression is by how you interpret his actions. Which is, of course, an interpretation and thereby, by its nature, subjective.
Yeah, banking on Clem shooting Kenny was a massive gamble. Again, one that didn't seem to fit with Jane's earlier pragmatism. And it seems many people here didn't shoot Kenny (I did).
She thougth that Kenny´s violent reaction could make Clem believe her. Yes, it was a massive gamble, but it does not change that I don´t think it was that implausible for her to expect that, if you do pick up the gun. If you don´t pick up the gun that´s another case enterily-its stupid as hell and complety contradicts Jane´s character.
But yes, I agree that until shown the baby Kenny would have had a very hard time believing Jane. The first assumption would be that she is buying time. But that little doubt - what if she was telling the truth and only she knew where he was? Then killing Jane could cause AJ's death. So yes, hard to believe I agree. But enough to stall him. Enough to save her life.
Yes, he could hesitate and that could give her a opening at the very least, and it was stupid of her to not even try that- I never said otherwise. I just said that, for my, that she thougth Clem could shoot Kenny if you pick up the gun is not implausible.
Jane's lack of survival instinct in that scene didn't reconcile with the Jane we knew before that.
Yeah, banking on Clem shooting Kenny was a massive gamble. Again, one that didn't seem to fit with Jane's earlier pragmatism. And it seems m… moreany people here didn't shoot Kenny (I did).
But yes, I agree that until shown the baby Kenny would have had a very hard time believing Jane. The first assumption would be that she is buying time. But that little doubt - what if she was telling the truth and only she knew where he was? Then killing Jane could cause AJ's death. So yes, hard to believe I agree. But enough to stall him. Enough to save her life.
I guess the bottom line for me is that I see what you're saying and I agree with many of the points about what certain characters would have been thinking but, for me personally, Jane's lack of survival instinct in that scene didn't reconcile with the Jane we knew before that.
Yeah, banking on Clem shooting Kenny was a massive gamble. Again, one that didn't seem to fit with Jane's earlier pragmatism. And it seems m… moreany people here didn't shoot Kenny (I did).
She thougth that Kenny´s violent reaction could make Clem believe her. Yes, it was a massive gamble, but it does not change that I don´t think it was that implausible for her to expect that, if you do pick up the gun. If you don´t pick up the gun that´s another case enterily-its stupid as hell and complety contradicts Jane´s character.
But yes, I agree that until shown the baby Kenny would have had a very hard time believing Jane. The first assumption would be that she is buying time. But that little doubt - what if she was telling the truth and only she knew where he was? Then killing Jane could cause AJ's death. So yes, hard to believe I agree. But enough to stall him. Enough to save her life.
Yes, he could hesitate and that could give he… [view original content]
The final fight reminds me of nothing. But when they're arguing in the car I think of my mom and dad... My mom gets short temper and my dad is the very one who can always set her on fire. They won't stop arguing all the time, even when dad is driving. Most of the time dad will keep silent, get a black face and drive as mad as he can. Mom will keep blaming him all the way. When I was a child it always scared me, and I always tried to persuade them to lay off. But it never worked. So when I was a teenager I had already got used to it and would just go on my sightseeing ignoring them. Anyway, they never run to accidents.
Politics, lets eliminate the oldschool trusted politic way, but the new way can't do it alone it needs to lie to get rid of yhe old school way (just like those neo-liberals in lets say Brussels/Washington and every other country in the world) and then it could vey well bite them in the ass and get killed themselves if they don't talk a lot of crap about the old way and convince people its wrong to live like that just like the way of living before that and so on and so on.
It also reminded me of a useless fight to show clem who is boss and all they do is lose someone(almost two people ,AJ too)
The car scene reminds me of my parents. How they used to shout at each other. I saw Kenny as my father and Jane as my mother. Those fights we're really hard for me to handle.
You know that Lilly was perfectly justified in her hostility toward Kenny, right? If Lilly didn't kill Carley and I had the option to choose between Lilly and Kenny I'd have chosen Lilly.
The car scene reminds me of my parents. How they used to shout at each other. I saw Kenny as my father and Jane as my mother. Those fights we're really hard for me to handle.
Hardest choice of any game I have ever played. My first play through I didn't realize what Jane had done and shot Kenny for being an asshat. Upon realization of my folly and that Jane totally set Kenny up intentionally I was stricken with guilt and having shot my good buddy Kenny dead and preceded to replay in order to get the ending I like best which is Clem staying with Kenny in the end, which was a real tear jerker. gg well played telltale
Hardest choice of any game I have ever played. My first play through I didn't realize what Jane had done and shot Kenny for being an asshat.… more Upon realization of my folly and that Jane totally set Kenny up intentionally I was stricken with guilt and having shot my good buddy Kenny dead and preceded to replay in order to get the ending I like best which is Clem staying with Kenny in the end, which was a real tear jerker. gg well played telltale
No! No! We should have saved the hamster! And frolicking is boring! Anybody with a brain would go to the party in the warehouse. But I guess some of you PUPPY-SAVERS think you're so smart!
I admit, I was a little weirded out by the ferocity of the arguing. Myself, I saw Jane as the "head" choice and Kenny as the "heart" choice--nothing wrong about either choice, and nothing wrong with wandering off alone either although if you ask me that one was a bit grim.
As a writer, I was absolutely fascinated with Kenny and pretty disappointed that we didn't get to know so much about Jane. For me, that would have made the choice much more difficult. As it was I didn't think Jane had much of an arc: left sister, felt guilty, decided to go it alone forever, was charmed by the totes adorbs Clementine (as we all were, no?) and changed her mind about herself.
All of that is a good solid arc, but for me it was kinda reheated leftovers compared to Kenny's story. Here's a guy that is an absolute pain in the neck, ALWAYS, unless you adhere to this murky set of Kenny Rules that to me were basically incomprehensible at first (OK, he cares about his family--but once they're gone, then what the hell is he talking about?!). I wasn't sure how I felt when I saw him show up again in S2 like some annoying relative who always starts up with the drama and ruins the birthday celebration.
Of course that's exactly what he did, but by the end, after a careful process of trying to understand what he was really talking about (underneath his spoken words), I finally got Kenny. At last, after an embarrassing number of hours of playing! That's what made me want to save him--I understood him and finally liked him, whereas with Jane I was still in the "meh" stage.
So the tl;dr version of this is I liked having multiple endings. I felt like Jane wasn't really explained enough until after Kenny died. At least this way I got to rewind and see what would have happened, and find out a little more.
You're absolutely right about people being invested in the characters and The Walking Dead (both seasons) contains writing far above most ga… moremes and a lot of other media too. But the reaction to the ending, even from those who got endings they liked, has been ugly. As I wrote in another thread, I was stunned to come here as a new guy and see what was going on. The endings, even the good endings, made people angry.
I'm honestly not sure that's something Telltale were shooting for, or if they should have been shooting for.
Personally it made me want the mainly single ending of season 1 again. Firstly because it means no fractured storytelling (and I don't feel the endings of s2 were as satisfying as a result of that) but mainly now because of the common shared experience we'd all have. That's something everything had with Lee and is completely missing here.
The ending of season 3 needs to be something we all agree on. We should see thre… [view original content]
I chose to shoot Kenny in the end. I stuck with him as much as I could throughout the story because he was my friend. I didn't understand why everyone was so upset that he was upset with Arvo. Arvo set them up to be killed or at the very least robbed. But because of Arvo's actions, people ended up dying and/or injured. There was no reason not to beat Arvo. Simply being kind to someone bad is an option but not the easiest one.
I also liked Jane. I never got the impression that they were against each other or that we would be made to choose one. Jane saved both Kenny and the rest of the group when she returned after hearing the gunshots. When she returned without the baby, I was certain she hadn't killed him, though I wasn't as certain the baby wasn't dead. There were walkers all around and it was dangerously cold. The baby could have died any number of ways.
In the end, after Clem had begged Kenny to hear Jane out and after Kenny refused to, I wished Jane would just yell out a story or something about what had happened but she didn't. Since she didn't, but instead seemed intent on continuing the fight at many points, I then started to think the baby wasn't dead at all. Kenny was understandably angry that Jane "lost" the baby. He was afraid to leave the baby with Jane all along, and now Jane proved he was right by rejoining them without the baby. However, since Kenny didn't hear her out, but was instead in a blind rage, I made what I considered the hardest decision yet (even though players can go back and change any choice they dislike so it doesn't REALLY matter) and shot Kenny. Kenny was a stronger (arguably) and bigger fighter and he was unwilling to listen at all (though his rage was understandable) and he was going to drive the knife into Jane when other decisions could have been made. Further, I couldn't stand by while someone I could help was killed by someone else.
Afterwards, when the baby was heard crying, I said "I KNEW it!" I was confused though because I couldn't even imagine what she was trying to do. Though her explanation made me less confused, I couldn't stay with her. Her lie was the worst of the deeds committed by "friends" this season. She forced Clem to kill Kenny by doing what she did and Clem, being forced to make a split second decision, attempted to save someone helpless who may have lost the baby in the storm, to a walker or any other way.
Of course, I'm unsure why Clem couldn't shoot Kenny in the arm or shoulder, you know, somewhere not fatal!
I also wanted to take exception to those of the belief that Clem did anything wrong in the escape with Sarita. Sarita was bitten, to no fault of Clem, during the escape. Clem was the only one near enough to her to see it and do something about it. Clem then chopped her arm off to stop her from turning, but Sarita ended up a walker anyway so Clem shot her. It was completely necessary, just as necessary as it was to shoot Rebecca, for Clem to shoot Sarita.
So Jane fucked up. We all know this, even the people who chose Jane knew she fucked up. But here's the thing. Even if she wasn't right (which she was), Kenny fucked up a lot too. And it just so happens that all the Kenny fanboys handily forget this fact when they're ranting. Kenny messed up as much as Jane did.
I think I found the multiple endings an oversimplification given the depth of character you describe. Your evaluation of Kenny is spot-on and even Jane in her limited time did have that arc, as you say. But liking the characters is a world away from wanting the other dead (man, I'm glad it doesn't work this way in real life) and I felt the game forced a set of circumstances I didn't quite buy to get there. And then there was the fallout from this endings both here and in reviews, which expressed less satisfaction than any writer would be aiming for.
I guess one big indicator that it didn't quite come together for me is that, at the very end, I found myself thinking about the writers rather than the characters. I was now out of the world.
No! No! We should have saved the hamster! And frolicking is boring! Anybody with a brain would go to the party in the warehouse. But I guess… more some of you PUPPY-SAVERS think you're so smart!
I admit, I was a little weirded out by the ferocity of the arguing. Myself, I saw Jane as the "head" choice and Kenny as the "heart" choice--nothing wrong about either choice, and nothing wrong with wandering off alone either although if you ask me that one was a bit grim.
As a writer, I was absolutely fascinated with Kenny and pretty disappointed that we didn't get to know so much about Jane. For me, that would have made the choice much more difficult. As it was I didn't think Jane had much of an arc: left sister, felt guilty, decided to go it alone forever, was charmed by the totes adorbs Clementine (as we all were, no?) and changed her mind about herself.
All of that is a good solid arc, but for me it was kinda reheated leftovers compared to Ken… [view original content]
You know that Lilly was perfectly justified in her hostility toward Kenny, right? If Lilly didn't kill Carley and I had the option to choose between Lilly and Kenny I'd have chosen Lilly.
I chose to shoot Kenny in the end. I stuck with him as much as I could throughout the story because he was my friend. I didn't understand wh… morey everyone was so upset that he was upset with Arvo. Arvo set them up to be killed or at the very least robbed. But because of Arvo's actions, people ended up dying and/or injured. There was no reason not to beat Arvo. Simply being kind to someone bad is an option but not the easiest one.
I also liked Jane. I never got the impression that they were against each other or that we would be made to choose one. Jane saved both Kenny and the rest of the group when she returned after hearing the gunshots. When she returned without the baby, I was certain she hadn't killed him, though I wasn't as certain the baby wasn't dead. There were walkers all around and it was dangerously cold. The baby could have died any number of ways.
In the end, after Clem had begged Kenny to hear Jane out and after Kenny refused… [view original content]
Hi yeah I am! I was away on a trip for a week and a half. But I'll be around more and responding to posts soon after reading posts and catching up on some things. Hope you've been well
Hi yeah I am! I was away on a trip for a week and a half. But I'll be around more and responding to posts soon after reading posts and catching up on some things. Hope you've been well
Comments
I thought that she'd actually lost the baby. So when I shot Kenny, my BFF ever since A New Day, and found out that AJ was alive...
I had some very nasty words for her. I didn't forgive her, I just let the timer run out and Clem silently went with Jane back to Howe's.
Yeah, banking on Clem shooting Kenny was a massive gamble. Again, one that didn't seem to fit with Jane's earlier pragmatism. And it seems many people here didn't shoot Kenny (I did).
But yes, I agree that until shown the baby Kenny would have had a very hard time believing Jane. The first assumption would be that she is buying time. But that little doubt - what if she was telling the truth and only she knew where he was? Then killing Jane could cause AJ's death. So yes, hard to believe I agree. But enough to stall him. Enough to save her life.
I guess the bottom line for me is that I see what you're saying and I agree with many of the points about what certain characters would have been thinking but, for me personally, Jane's lack of survival instinct in that scene didn't reconcile with the Jane we knew before that.
It was a parody of a youtube video stacky
fine but whats not subjective and true is that Kenny loved Clem.
I knew she was shady ever since she shot Troy in the Penis, she did it in such a way that was so casual, it was like she did it many times before. At that moment i knew she was untrustworthy. A chick that shoots a man in the wiener, i want nothing to do with. You just don't shoot a guy in the junk.
Luke is a braver man than I. A lot braver, or possibly just really despie.
No, again, that is subjective.
The most prominent reason why being the fact that he never says it.
The only way you could therefore get that impression is by how you interpret his actions. Which is, of course, an interpretation and thereby, by its nature, subjective.
[removed]
She thougth that Kenny´s violent reaction could make Clem believe her. Yes, it was a massive gamble, but it does not change that I don´t think it was that implausible for her to expect that, if you do pick up the gun. If you don´t pick up the gun that´s another case enterily-its stupid as hell and complety contradicts Jane´s character.
Yes, he could hesitate and that could give her a opening at the very least, and it was stupid of her to not even try that- I never said otherwise. I just said that, for my, that she thougth Clem could shoot Kenny if you pick up the gun is not implausible.
That´s true.
Out of interest, can you just leave the gun? I picked it up on every play but I don't think I ever tried just leaving it.
Yes, you can just leave the gun on the ground. If you wait a bit you don´t get a Shoot Kenny or Look Away choice, and this happens:
Ah, okay. Glad I picked up the gun then.
precisely
Praise the mods!!!
You are awesome
Who?
A mod.
The final fight reminds me of nothing. But when they're arguing in the car I think of my mom and dad... My mom gets short temper and my dad is the very one who can always set her on fire. They won't stop arguing all the time, even when dad is driving. Most of the time dad will keep silent, get a black face and drive as mad as he can. Mom will keep blaming him all the way. When I was a child it always scared me, and I always tried to persuade them to lay off. But it never worked. So when I was a teenager I had already got used to it and would just go on my sightseeing ignoring them. Anyway, they never run to accidents.
Politics, lets eliminate the oldschool trusted politic way, but the new way can't do it alone it needs to lie to get rid of yhe old school way (just like those neo-liberals in lets say Brussels/Washington and every other country in the world) and then it could vey well bite them in the ass and get killed themselves if they don't talk a lot of crap about the old way and convince people its wrong to live like that just like the way of living before that and so on and so on.
It also reminded me of a useless fight to show clem who is boss and all they do is lose someone(almost two people ,AJ too)
The car scene reminds me of my parents. How they used to shout at each other. I saw Kenny as my father and Jane as my mother. Those fights we're really hard for me to handle.
Kenny vs Luke, Kenny vs Mike, Kenny vs Nick, Kenny vs Carver, Kenny vs Lilly, Kenny vs Larry, etc..
Kenny had a lot of rivalries.
He would strap him to his chest in a baby bjorn and continue badassing his way through the game.
It's from "Tenacious D in The Pick of Destiny." Watch out for language and uh, other things.
Holy shit, I love this vid!
Thank you.
You know that Lilly was perfectly justified in her hostility toward Kenny, right? If Lilly didn't kill Carley and I had the option to choose between Lilly and Kenny I'd have chosen Lilly.
Haha, I knew you had to be quoting something, lol
I bet it was. If I was Clem I would have told them to knock it off! Still, the I-spy with my little eye thing was funny.
And I supported him throughout all of them.
Hardest choice of any game I have ever played. My first play through I didn't realize what Jane had done and shot Kenny for being an asshat. Upon realization of my folly and that Jane totally set Kenny up intentionally I was stricken with guilt and having shot my good buddy Kenny dead and preceded to replay in order to get the ending I like best which is Clem staying with Kenny in the end, which was a real tear jerker. gg well played telltale
Good... welcome to the Gavin side.... MWAHHAHAHAHAHA!
No! No! We should have saved the hamster! And frolicking is boring! Anybody with a brain would go to the party in the warehouse. But I guess some of you PUPPY-SAVERS think you're so smart!
I admit, I was a little weirded out by the ferocity of the arguing. Myself, I saw Jane as the "head" choice and Kenny as the "heart" choice--nothing wrong about either choice, and nothing wrong with wandering off alone either although if you ask me that one was a bit grim.
As a writer, I was absolutely fascinated with Kenny and pretty disappointed that we didn't get to know so much about Jane. For me, that would have made the choice much more difficult. As it was I didn't think Jane had much of an arc: left sister, felt guilty, decided to go it alone forever, was charmed by the totes adorbs Clementine (as we all were, no?) and changed her mind about herself.
All of that is a good solid arc, but for me it was kinda reheated leftovers compared to Kenny's story. Here's a guy that is an absolute pain in the neck, ALWAYS, unless you adhere to this murky set of Kenny Rules that to me were basically incomprehensible at first (OK, he cares about his family--but once they're gone, then what the hell is he talking about?!). I wasn't sure how I felt when I saw him show up again in S2 like some annoying relative who always starts up with the drama and ruins the birthday celebration.
Of course that's exactly what he did, but by the end, after a careful process of trying to understand what he was really talking about (underneath his spoken words), I finally got Kenny. At last, after an embarrassing number of hours of playing! That's what made me want to save him--I understood him and finally liked him, whereas with Jane I was still in the "meh" stage.
So the tl;dr version of this is I liked having multiple endings. I felt like Jane wasn't really explained enough until after Kenny died. At least this way I got to rewind and see what would have happened, and find out a little more.
I chose to shoot Kenny in the end. I stuck with him as much as I could throughout the story because he was my friend. I didn't understand why everyone was so upset that he was upset with Arvo. Arvo set them up to be killed or at the very least robbed. But because of Arvo's actions, people ended up dying and/or injured. There was no reason not to beat Arvo. Simply being kind to someone bad is an option but not the easiest one.
I also liked Jane. I never got the impression that they were against each other or that we would be made to choose one. Jane saved both Kenny and the rest of the group when she returned after hearing the gunshots. When she returned without the baby, I was certain she hadn't killed him, though I wasn't as certain the baby wasn't dead. There were walkers all around and it was dangerously cold. The baby could have died any number of ways.
In the end, after Clem had begged Kenny to hear Jane out and after Kenny refused to, I wished Jane would just yell out a story or something about what had happened but she didn't. Since she didn't, but instead seemed intent on continuing the fight at many points, I then started to think the baby wasn't dead at all. Kenny was understandably angry that Jane "lost" the baby. He was afraid to leave the baby with Jane all along, and now Jane proved he was right by rejoining them without the baby. However, since Kenny didn't hear her out, but was instead in a blind rage, I made what I considered the hardest decision yet (even though players can go back and change any choice they dislike so it doesn't REALLY matter) and shot Kenny. Kenny was a stronger (arguably) and bigger fighter and he was unwilling to listen at all (though his rage was understandable) and he was going to drive the knife into Jane when other decisions could have been made. Further, I couldn't stand by while someone I could help was killed by someone else.
Afterwards, when the baby was heard crying, I said "I KNEW it!" I was confused though because I couldn't even imagine what she was trying to do. Though her explanation made me less confused, I couldn't stay with her. Her lie was the worst of the deeds committed by "friends" this season. She forced Clem to kill Kenny by doing what she did and Clem, being forced to make a split second decision, attempted to save someone helpless who may have lost the baby in the storm, to a walker or any other way.
Of course, I'm unsure why Clem couldn't shoot Kenny in the arm or shoulder, you know, somewhere not fatal!
I also wanted to take exception to those of the belief that Clem did anything wrong in the escape with Sarita. Sarita was bitten, to no fault of Clem, during the escape. Clem was the only one near enough to her to see it and do something about it. Clem then chopped her arm off to stop her from turning, but Sarita ended up a walker anyway so Clem shot her. It was completely necessary, just as necessary as it was to shoot Rebecca, for Clem to shoot Sarita.
I didn't think the choice was very hard because I didn't want Kenny killing anyone. So I'm with Jane and the family.
So Jane fucked up. We all know this, even the people who chose Jane knew she fucked up. But here's the thing. Even if she wasn't right (which she was), Kenny fucked up a lot too. And it just so happens that all the Kenny fanboys handily forget this fact when they're ranting. Kenny messed up as much as Jane did.
I think I found the multiple endings an oversimplification given the depth of character you describe. Your evaluation of Kenny is spot-on and even Jane in her limited time did have that arc, as you say. But liking the characters is a world away from wanting the other dead (man, I'm glad it doesn't work this way in real life) and I felt the game forced a set of circumstances I didn't quite buy to get there. And then there was the fallout from this endings both here and in reviews, which expressed less satisfaction than any writer would be aiming for.
I guess one big indicator that it didn't quite come together for me is that, at the very end, I found myself thinking about the writers rather than the characters. I was now out of the world.
The only thing in the game that made me smile more than Arvo getting beat
.
You jumped to an assumption that I didn't like Lilly.
I love Lilly.
I like her more than Kenny.
*Sarita not Rosita. Who the heck is Rosita lol
Hi, you back! I haven't seen you around for a while.
Hi yeah I am!
I was away on a trip for a week and a half. But I'll be around more and responding to posts soon after reading posts and catching up on some things. Hope you've been well 
Thank you, I have! Same for you, hope you enjoyed your trip!