I didn't believe she lost AJ (whether by accident or deliberate) but I also have a hard time believing she could lose him. She's a skilled survivor with a heart. So I thought something's up but couldn't figure out what it was.
OK, I appreciate all the compliments, but let's get some discussion going.
When Jane came without the baby, did you believe her, or did you catch on that something wasn't right? I personally thought she had genuinely lost AJ.
Here's a question... in the later part of season 2, there seem to be a lot of Clem dialogue choices along the lines of "Kenny is dangerous" when others are saying negative things about him. A huge amount of conversations present the option to go along with all the negativity.
If you play it like that, wouldn't the ending seem totally crazy? I mean, in that scenario, all Jane would have to do is say to Clem "Fancy leaving the old crazy guy behind?" and it would be [Hell yeah]. No baby stunt required because she had nothing to prove. Did anyone play Clem like that? Is the lead-up to the end different?
Here's a question... in the later part of season 2, there seem to be a lot of Clem dialogue choices along the lines of "Kenny is dangerous" … morewhen others are saying negative things about him. A huge amount of conversations present the option to go along with all the negativity.
If you play it like that, wouldn't the ending seem totally crazy? I mean, in that scenario, all Jane would have to do is say to Clem "Fancy leaving the old crazy guy behind?" and it would be [Hell yeah]. No baby stunt required because she had nothing to prove. Did anyone play Clem like that? Is the lead-up to the end different?
The ending was strange to me. The entire time Jane was like kept saying Kenny's crazy, and I was already thinking this and kept agreeing with Jane. So the ending to me was felt really silly to me.
The ending was strange to me. The entire time Jane was like kept saying Kenny's crazy, and I was already thinking this and kept agreeing with Jane. So the ending to me was felt really silly to me.
I agreed with Jane about Kenny the whole time and my ending felt right to me. I needed a "reason" to kill Kenny and Jane's reason was perfect, and Kenny died happy, I liked him very much as a friend but not as a survivor mate. He needed to see his family, he didn't even mention AJ in his last words, I'm very happy with my ending (leaving with Jane).
Yeah, I agree--I didn't buy the circumstances either. The one argument in the car, where Jane relentlessly pushed Kenny's buttons (and Kenny pushed hers back, "Running away, what a f#ckin shocker!"), it wasn't enough to substitute for a more complicated Jane arc. The talk with Clem at the half-built house helped a little, the one where Jane tells Clem she has to decide how much knowing Kenny for a long time is going to be worth. But it still wasn't enough to let us know Jane better, to really understand her. If I'd understood Jane as well as I understood Kenny by that point, the choice would have been a lot harder.
As it was, I knew that Kenny's ultimate goal in life was to save as many people as he possibly could, even if he had to be a complete and utter dick to do it, while all I knew about Jane was that she wasn't likely to act out violently--instead she'd just vanish, and maybe I could trust her not to, but maybe I couldn't.
A single ending might have given more time to understand Jane's motivations, beyond "Kenny is crazy and dangerous." Heck, even a different choice might have helped us understand Jane better--go with Jane to Wellington or go with Kenny to Wellington? I don't know.
I do know that the car scene might have been a misstep on the writers' part, mostly because it seems like it pushed individual players' buttons as well as the characters'. Nothing else could account for how nasty the arguing here got.
What I mean is, luckily my own parents don't have those kinds of arguments, but all I could think of during that scene was my former in-laws (picture Carver married to Dee from Bonnie's section of 400 Days). I thought back to all the times I was in a car with them, and about how great it would have been if there'd been zombies so I could pull over, push them both out, and drive off by myself.
Maybe that's the reason why the Clem-alone stat is pushing ever upward? If my former in-laws had been my actual parents, I probably would have been happy to get that scene over with, take the baby, and go someplace else.
I think I found the multiple endings an oversimplification given the depth of character you describe. Your evaluation of Kenny is spot-on an… mored even Jane in her limited time did have that arc, as you say. But liking the characters is a world away from wanting the other dead (man, I'm glad it doesn't work this way in real life) and I felt the game forced a set of circumstances I didn't quite buy to get there. And then there was the fallout from this endings both here and in reviews, which expressed less satisfaction than any writer would be aiming for.
I guess one big indicator that it didn't quite come together for me is that, at the very end, I found myself thinking about the writers rather than the characters. I was now out of the world.
One thing we know is: Wellington IS safe.
And Jane is a b---h, so I watched Kenny stab a knife into Jane's chest and evilly laugh at her death (joke)
In seriousness, I'm mixed feelings for both of them. And my final decision was to let Kenny kill Jane and stay in Wellington.
======
Regarding the Season 3 protag. . I'd like it to still be Clementine. Season 2 was the "shaping-YOUR-Clementine" and I believe that Season 3 will continue her story.
Hmm... This is probably one of those KvJ threads that belongs in the big one but there is one point I think needs tackling...
The argument put forward in the original post requires that you have prior knowledge of what Jane is doing and Clem can't have that knowledge so the choice is far from clear. None of that information can be taken into account because Clem doesn't have it. She can only act on the information she has. So as far as I'm concerned only our first choices really count and that's only if we didn't have advance spoilers. Taking any 'Jane was doing this' info into account is flawed.
Honzian, great post. As you stated, we all get to make our own choices, so I won't spend any time here on why I made mine. While I have the floor, I WILL briefly state that I am 135% in support of Clem as the main for season 3.
Also, while part of me doesn't condone not taking it seriously/squandering the opprtunity to give TTG genuinely constructive feedback, another part of me wants to publcly give mad props to whoever filled in the "If you could say something to Telltale, what would you say?" section of the questionnare with, like, 30 solid lines of FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO. If not the wisest or most mature decision, it WAS pretty good for a laugh.
Which brings me to the reason for my reply. Would you mind posting the link to the actual questionnare as opposed to the results page, for those of us who haven't taken it yet? Please and thank you.
Honzian, great post. As you stated, we all get to make our own choices, so I won't spend any time here on why I made mine. While I have the … morefloor, I WILL briefly state that I am 135% in support of Clem as the main for season 3.
Also, while part of me doesn't condone not taking it seriously/squandering the opprtunity to give TTG genuinely constructive feedback, another part of me wants to publcly give mad props to whoever filled in the "If you could say something to Telltale, what would you say?" section of the questionnare with, like, 30 solid lines of FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO. If not the wisest or most mature decision, it WAS pretty good for a laugh.
Which brings me to the reason for my reply. Would you mind posting the link to the actual questionnare as opposed to the results page, for those of us who haven't taken it yet? Please and thank you.
As to your first point, yes but only partially since discussing that choice is not the sole purpose of this thread, with that in mind I see no reason to lock this thread, that is as long as everything is kept civil and no heated arguments arise.
Yes I rewound, I will admit that I am a bit ashamed for rewinding such a crucial moment, however I want to point that I have never before done this and have only done it because at that time I felt like I had to.
Moving on to your second point, I believe I know what you mean and now to form my reply in a coherent and comprehensive manner.
Yes Clementine doesn't know all that but it seems pretty likely that she can tell something isn't quite right about the whole situation from the moment Jane arrived without AJ, while that alone can indicate a lot of things it is what happens afterwards that can tell you what Jane is (or rather was) originally planning to do, when she says "No matter what happens, just stay out of it." it means that she expects Kenny to do something violent, then the whole "You have to trust me." "You're gonna see what he really is" she wanted to cause a conflict with Kenny.
While Clementine might not know Jane's intentions she is definitely smart enough to figure out that Jane meant for this to happen, whether or not she decides to go along with it depends on you however.
Should you feel that some of my points are flawed (which they might be in admittedly) feel free to reply, I am open to criticism.
Hmm... This is probably one of those KvJ threads that belongs in the big one but there is one point I think needs tackling...
The argumen… moret put forward in the original post requires that you have prior knowledge of what Jane is doing and Clem can't have that knowledge so the choice is far from clear. None of that information can be taken into account because Clem doesn't have it. She can only act on the information she has. So as far as I'm concerned only our first choices really count and that's only if we didn't have advance spoilers. Taking any 'Jane was doing this' info into account is flawed.
Hmm... This is probably one of those KvJ threads that belongs in the big one but there is one point I think needs tackling...
The argumen… moret put forward in the original post requires that you have prior knowledge of what Jane is doing and Clem can't have that knowledge so the choice is far from clear. None of that information can be taken into account because Clem doesn't have it. She can only act on the information she has. So as far as I'm concerned only our first choices really count and that's only if we didn't have advance spoilers. Taking any 'Jane was doing this' info into account is flawed.
You probably didn't listen to Clem when she said we don't know these people to Kenny. Yes, you might be safe for awhile, but we don't know anything about the people inside those walls. Edith also says they are running low in supplies, which makes Clem and AJ's appearance a risk for the community. Anything could happen at Wellington, like it did at Carver's camp.
One thing we know is: Wellington IS safe.
And Jane is a b---h, so I watched Kenny stab a knife into Jane's chest and evilly laugh at her de… moreath (joke)
In seriousness, I'm mixed feelings for both of them. And my final decision was to let Kenny kill Jane and stay in Wellington.
======
Regarding the Season 3 protag. . I'd like it to still be Clementine. Season 2 was the "shaping-YOUR-Clementine" and I believe that Season 3 will continue her story.
You probably didn't listen to Clem when she said we don't know these people to Kenny. Yes, you might be safe for awhile, but we don't know a… morenything about the people inside those walls. Edith also says they are running low in supplies, which makes Clem and AJ's appearance a risk for the community. Anything could happen at Wellington, like it did at Carver's camp.
I am glad that we can agree on something, however I would like to know why it is that you "do not regret shooting Kenny" If you don't mind me asking that is.
The first half of this should be a comment on the Jenny/Kane megathread (Pizza/Ice Cream).
Or maybe if I make a topic about potatoes and how much I love them, kind of like how I love the Kenny/Jane choice in episode 5, then rant about it, then go back to talking about potatoes, maybe that will fly?
I am glad that we can agree on something, however I would like to know why it is that you "do not regret shooting Kenny" If you don't mind me asking that is.
Also nice profile picture.
I shot Kenny because I couldn't let him murder somebody. I have, up to this point, been brutal when it comes to people that murder, and that will never change, as murder is the worst thing a person can do to another.
I really liked Kenny. My Clem loved Kenny, thought of him as family, but that doesn't change my decision. You don't let people murder each-other. If you can stop it you have to try.
I am glad that we can agree on something, however I would like to know why it is that you "do not regret shooting Kenny" If you don't mind me asking that is.
Also nice profile picture.
I'm not trying to sound like a bitch or anything, but was me asking people to admit they disliked a character be it Jane or Kenny uncivilize… mored and then asking them to elaborate on that? I wasn't trying to incite war, people state all the time they dislike someone, that doesn't mean we're crapping on other peoples opinions. Again, I don't mean to sound like a jerk.
I knew what Jane was doing as soon as she talked to Clementine when Kenny left the rest stop so I figured out AJ was alive. While I do agree she caused it and could´ve stopped the fight, I also didn´t want Kenny to kill her for something she didn´t do.
If the situation had been reversed (Jane about to kill Kenny), I would´ve shot her. Hope that makes sense.
I am glad that we can agree on something, however I would like to know why it is that you "do not regret shooting Kenny" If you don't mind me asking that is.
Also nice profile picture.
"The first half of this should be a comment on the Jenny/Kane megathread (Pizza/Ice Cream)."
It seems rather reasonable for you to make such an assumption, however I want to remind you that at the time I created this thread and until very recently this thread did not actually exist and since I cannot predict the future (well not in this case at least) I have not prepeared for such an eventuality. Furthermore I see little point in editing this thread now as it would simply not achieve anything and probably even change the message I was trying to convey.
As for the other part of your comment, well frankly you are welcome to try if you feel like you must express yourself in such a manner, it is your choice after all, just like it always was.
The first half of this should be a comment on the Jenny/Kane megathread (Pizza/Ice Cream).
Or maybe if I make a topic about potatoes and … morehow much I love them, kind of like how I love the Kenny/Jane choice in episode 5, then rant about it, then go back to talking about potatoes, maybe that will fly?
"The first half of this should be a comment on the Jenny/Kane megathread (Pizza/Ice Cream)."
It seems rather reasonable for you to make suc… moreh an assumption, however I want to remind you that at the time I created this thread and until very recently this thread did not actually exist and since I cannot predict the future (well not in this case at least) I have not prepeared for such an eventuality. Furthermore I see little point in editing this thread now as it would simply not achieve anything and probably even change the message I was trying to convey.
As for the other part of your comment, well frankly you are welcome to try if you feel like you must express yourself in such a manner, it is your choice after all, just like it always was.
You know there is a BIG difference between just predicting the future randomly and guessing it wrong. As opposed to thinking/saying something is going to happen and to actually have it happen later.
Anyone can predict the future however only a few people can also be right when predicting something.
By the way I can predict that you are going to reply to this comment, however you could then purposely not reply to it out of spite in order to prove me wrong (have fun should you try to do that) , nevertheless it is also possible that you will never even read this (however unlikely that might be).
You know there is a BIG difference between just predicting the future randomly and guessing it wrong. As opposed to thinking/saying somethin… moreg is going to happen and to actually have it happen later.
Anyone can predict the future however only a few people can also be right when predicting something.
By the way I can predict that you are going to reply to this comment, however you could then purposely not reply to it out of spite in order to prove me wrong (have fun should you try to do that) , nevertheless it is also possible that you will never even read this (however unlikely that might be).
This a good enough prediction to you?
In that case, sorry, you know when it is just text you see telling whether something is sarcasm or not is anything but easy and also my sense of humor is undoubtedly different than yours, no harm done.
Keep it up though, next time I might even get the joke.
What are everyone's thought after you shoot Kenny and he says "You made the right choice."
Should Telltale have put that in? It kind of leads you to think it was the right ending because it was Kenny approved. Or maybe he was lying to make Clementine not dwell on him so much? I don't know, post your thought!
Comments
WHY DOESN'T ANY ONE MISS ME?
If you left I would miss your beautiful avatar. Does that count? lol
I didn't believe she lost AJ (whether by accident or deliberate) but I also have a hard time believing she could lose him. She's a skilled survivor with a heart. So I thought something's up but couldn't figure out what it was.
Here's a question... in the later part of season 2, there seem to be a lot of Clem dialogue choices along the lines of "Kenny is dangerous" when others are saying negative things about him. A huge amount of conversations present the option to go along with all the negativity.
If you play it like that, wouldn't the ending seem totally crazy? I mean, in that scenario, all Jane would have to do is say to Clem "Fancy leaving the old crazy guy behind?" and it would be [Hell yeah]. No baby stunt required because she had nothing to prove. Did anyone play Clem like that? Is the lead-up to the end different?
It's something.
I played Clem while saying negative things about Kenny, nothing changes.
Thanks. And was the end not weird in that case or did it work okay?
The ending was strange to me. The entire time Jane was like kept saying Kenny's crazy, and I was already thinking this and kept agreeing with Jane. So the ending to me was felt really silly to me.
Yeah, I was thinking that must be the case.
I agreed with Jane about Kenny the whole time and my ending felt right to me. I needed a "reason" to kill Kenny and Jane's reason was perfect, and Kenny died happy, I liked him very much as a friend but not as a survivor mate. He needed to see his family, he didn't even mention AJ in his last words, I'm very happy with my ending (leaving with Jane).
Yeah, I agree--I didn't buy the circumstances either. The one argument in the car, where Jane relentlessly pushed Kenny's buttons (and Kenny pushed hers back, "Running away, what a f#ckin shocker!"), it wasn't enough to substitute for a more complicated Jane arc. The talk with Clem at the half-built house helped a little, the one where Jane tells Clem she has to decide how much knowing Kenny for a long time is going to be worth. But it still wasn't enough to let us know Jane better, to really understand her. If I'd understood Jane as well as I understood Kenny by that point, the choice would have been a lot harder.
As it was, I knew that Kenny's ultimate goal in life was to save as many people as he possibly could, even if he had to be a complete and utter dick to do it, while all I knew about Jane was that she wasn't likely to act out violently--instead she'd just vanish, and maybe I could trust her not to, but maybe I couldn't.
A single ending might have given more time to understand Jane's motivations, beyond "Kenny is crazy and dangerous." Heck, even a different choice might have helped us understand Jane better--go with Jane to Wellington or go with Kenny to Wellington? I don't know.
I do know that the car scene might have been a misstep on the writers' part, mostly because it seems like it pushed individual players' buttons as well as the characters'. Nothing else could account for how nasty the arguing here got.
What I mean is, luckily my own parents don't have those kinds of arguments, but all I could think of during that scene was my former in-laws (picture Carver married to Dee from Bonnie's section of 400 Days). I thought back to all the times I was in a car with them, and about how great it would have been if there'd been zombies so I could pull over, push them both out, and drive off by myself.
Maybe that's the reason why the Clem-alone stat is pushing ever upward? If my former in-laws had been my actual parents, I probably would have been happy to get that scene over with, take the baby, and go someplace else.
One thing we know is: Wellington IS safe.
And Jane is a b---h, so I watched Kenny stab a knife into Jane's chest and evilly laugh at her death (joke)
In seriousness, I'm mixed feelings for both of them. And my final decision was to let Kenny kill Jane and stay in Wellington.
======
Regarding the Season 3 protag. . I'd like it to still be Clementine. Season 2 was the "shaping-YOUR-Clementine" and I believe that Season 3 will continue her story.
Hmm... This is probably one of those KvJ threads that belongs in the big one but there is one point I think needs tackling...
The argument put forward in the original post requires that you have prior knowledge of what Jane is doing and Clem can't have that knowledge so the choice is far from clear. None of that information can be taken into account because Clem doesn't have it. She can only act on the information she has. So as far as I'm concerned only our first choices really count and that's only if we didn't have advance spoilers. Taking any 'Jane was doing this' info into account is flawed.
Honzian, great post. As you stated, we all get to make our own choices, so I won't spend any time here on why I made mine. While I have the floor, I WILL briefly state that I am 135% in support of Clem as the main for season 3.
Also, while part of me doesn't condone not taking it seriously/squandering the opprtunity to give TTG genuinely constructive feedback, another part of me wants to publcly give mad props to whoever filled in the "If you could say something to Telltale, what would you say?" section of the questionnare with, like, 30 solid lines of FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO FUCK ARVO. If not the wisest or most mature decision, it WAS pretty good for a laugh.
Which brings me to the reason for my reply. Would you mind posting the link to the actual questionnare as opposed to the results page, for those of us who haven't taken it yet? Please and thank you.
No problem, here is the link to the questionnaire: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1mJ-9Yn-tDCdzBOSkdD7-axfCsfNR2l9N4f-a_jJRAwo/viewform#start=openform
There is also a thread dedicated for it here: https://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/81703/season-3-poll
I appreciate the feedback and I hereby thank you for commenting on my first thread.
As to your first point, yes but only partially since discussing that choice is not the sole purpose of this thread, with that in mind I see no reason to lock this thread, that is as long as everything is kept civil and no heated arguments arise.
Yes I rewound, I will admit that I am a bit ashamed for rewinding such a crucial moment, however I want to point that I have never before done this and have only done it because at that time I felt like I had to.
Moving on to your second point, I believe I know what you mean and now to form my reply in a coherent and comprehensive manner.
Yes Clementine doesn't know all that but it seems pretty likely that she can tell something isn't quite right about the whole situation from the moment Jane arrived without AJ, while that alone can indicate a lot of things it is what happens afterwards that can tell you what Jane is (or rather was) originally planning to do, when she says "No matter what happens, just stay out of it." it means that she expects Kenny to do something violent, then the whole "You have to trust me." "You're gonna see what he really is" she wanted to cause a conflict with Kenny.
While Clementine might not know Jane's intentions she is definitely smart enough to figure out that Jane meant for this to happen, whether or not she decides to go along with it depends on you however.
Should you feel that some of my points are flawed (which they might be in admittedly) feel free to reply, I am open to criticism.
Well it had to happen sooner or later. Double post, sorry.
You probably didn't listen to Clem when she said we don't know these people to Kenny. Yes, you might be safe for awhile, but we don't know anything about the people inside those walls. Edith also says they are running low in supplies, which makes Clem and AJ's appearance a risk for the community. Anything could happen at Wellington, like it did at Carver's camp.
I agree that Clementine should stay as the playable character but I do not regret shooting Kenny. Even though he was one of my favourite characters.
It's the same for the Cabin Group, you don't know these people but 2 of their members saved you.
It's my decision anyways, I do have saves for the multiple endings of my choice.
I am glad that we can agree on something, however I would like to know why it is that you "do not regret shooting Kenny" If you don't mind me asking that is.
Also nice profile picture.
The first half of this should be a comment on the Jenny/Kane megathread (Pizza/Ice Cream).
Or maybe if I make a topic about potatoes and how much I love them, kind of like how I love the Kenny/Jane choice in episode 5, then rant about it, then go back to talking about potatoes, maybe that will fly?
I also don't regret shooting Kenny, because Potato.
If you want to talk with me more about it, check the Jenny/Kane thread (Pizza/Ice Cream)
I shot Kenny because I couldn't let him murder somebody. I have, up to this point, been brutal when it comes to people that murder, and that will never change, as murder is the worst thing a person can do to another.
I really liked Kenny. My Clem loved Kenny, thought of him as family, but that doesn't change my decision. You don't let people murder each-other. If you can stop it you have to try.
And yes, of course Clem should be the playable character in Season 3
Yes it was... you monster...
How could you? I bet you don't even like potatoes!
No, I don´t mind you asking at all!
I knew what Jane was doing as soon as she talked to Clementine when Kenny left the rest stop so I figured out AJ was alive. While I do agree she caused it and could´ve stopped the fight, I also didn´t want Kenny to kill her for something she didn´t do.
If the situation had been reversed (Jane about to kill Kenny), I would´ve shot her. Hope that makes sense.
And thank you, same to you! Clem´s awesome.
"The first half of this should be a comment on the Jenny/Kane megathread (Pizza/Ice Cream)."
It seems rather reasonable for you to make such an assumption, however I want to remind you that at the time I created this thread and until very recently this thread did not actually exist and since I cannot predict the future (well not in this case at least) I have not prepeared for such an eventuality. Furthermore I see little point in editing this thread now as it would simply not achieve anything and probably even change the message I was trying to convey.
As for the other part of your comment, well frankly you are welcome to try if you feel like you must express yourself in such a manner, it is your choice after all, just like it always was.
Oh, haha, JUST KIDDING
I mean... how dare you not predict the future? Common! How could you not predict the future? Everybody else can! XD
You know there is a BIG difference between just predicting the future randomly and guessing it wrong. As opposed to thinking/saying something is going to happen and to actually have it happen later.
Anyone can predict the future however only a few people can also be right when predicting something.
By the way I can predict that you are going to reply to this comment, however you could then purposely not reply to it out of spite in order to prove me wrong (have fun should you try to do that) , nevertheless it is also possible that you will never even read this (however unlikely that might be).
This a good enough prediction to you?
you don't............speak sarcasm...........do you.............
It was a joke
In that case, sorry, you know when it is just text you see telling whether something is sarcasm or not is anything but easy and also my sense of humor is undoubtedly different than yours, no harm done.
Keep it up though, next time I might even get the joke.
Great! I am too, and I did!
I was ready to leave/kill Kenny even before all that shit happened in car.
Merged a few threads that were civil so more dicussion could go on.
What are everyone's thought after you shoot Kenny and he says "You made the right choice."
Should Telltale have put that in? It kind of leads you to think it was the right ending because it was Kenny approved. Or maybe he was lying to make Clementine not dwell on him so much? I don't know, post your thought!
What the actual fuck? HOW DID POTATOES GET INVOLVED?
I was so pissed at Upham when he let that kraut brutally stab Mellish like that.
My Clementine did not fail like Upham.