Yes, because if Jane had cared, she'd have just smiled prettily and continued humoring a man who was wanting to take a newborn child (who needs formula to survive, and they had very little left) and an 11 year-old child off on some wild goose chase through the driving snow and winter cold to an unknown camp in an unknown location, one that that might end up just being a rumor and not even existing at all, or may be filled with crazies even worse than Carver even if it is there.... yeah, that's logical, and so much more of a better choice than taking them southwards to a warmer place, to a camp you KNOW exists and has formula for the baby. Sure, Jane must have not cared at all. And really, humoring unstable people so you don't "keep getting them mad" (no matter the price), is so much more important than the value of innocent human life, too.
/sarcasm
Hey, you know... maybe it's not unresolved personal issues at all, at least not as that phrase is commonly used. Maybe it IS just plain old, straight up, bad morals. :P
I hate jane cause she did only care for herself i did not like arvo but when jane threteen arvo in episode 4 jane went over the line same wi… moreth when jane lied to prove a point at the end of episode 5.Jane did not care cause if she cared she would not have kept getting kenny mad she never wanted alvain or clem or kenny around and kenny took care of clementine like she was his kid.
If you played the game u see kenny was right about jane i mean come on who lies and says she accident killed a baby janes messed up one more thing what if a zombie would of got the baby she was dumb to leave a baby in a car by itsself were a zombie can get who cares if your trying to prove a point jane put a babys life at risk im sick of people complaining about how kenny messed up when u can see kenny was right about everything
I didn't claim to support any of those statements, I was just saying that the particular claim, "for irrational people, feelings equals facts", that feelings aren't necessarily always irrational. Feeling a certain way based on false beliefs when one knows the beliefs to be false, that's irrational.
No, it implies that ignoring the facts and just making stuff up in order to justify one's own negative feels is neurotic as hell... and it i… mores.
How can a terrified, unarmed girl (Sarah) be logically blamed for "making" a psychopath push a one-armed man off a roof?
How is freaking out when your own father is killed right in front of you so incomprehensible?
Since when did a young man (Luke) who likely hasn't gotten much lately need to be somehow conned or manipulated into wanting to have sex with a willing and well-shaped female?
How does someone who is normally a loner but comes back to the group because she's concerned about Clem only care about herself?
Ugh.
Although... the idea that feelings = facts for some people stems from them having bad morals is something which deserves serious thought. Hrm. See, in psychology, the usual thought is that such things stem from unresolved personal issues and poor mental health, rather than bad morals. Lol.
dont get me wrong but i liked jane till the end of episode 4 she left and before leaving threeten a kid that turn out to ambush your group then jane comes back and thinks shes better then any one in group kenny was right about arvo and jane
Yes, because if Jane had cared, she'd have just smiled prettily and continued humoring a man who was wanting to take a newborn child (who ne… moreeds formula to survive, and they had very little left) and an 11 year-old child off on some wild goose chase through the driving snow and winter cold to an unknown camp in an unknown location, one that that might end up just being a rumor and not even existing at all, or may be filled with crazies even worse than Carver even if it is there.... yeah, that's logical, and so much more of a better choice than taking them southwards to a warmer place, to a camp you KNOW exists and has formula for the baby. Sure, Jane must have not cared at all. And really, humoring unstable people so you don't "keep getting them mad" (no matter the price), is so much more important than the value of innocent human life, too.
/sarcasm
Hey, you know... maybe it's not unresolved personal issues at all, at least not as that phrase is commonly used. Maybe it IS just plain old, straight up, bad morals. :P
If you played the game u see kenny was right about jane i mean come on who lies and says she accident killed a baby janes messed up one more… more thing what if a zombie would of got the baby she was dumb to leave a baby in a car by itsself were a zombie can get who cares if your trying to prove a point jane put a babys life at risk im sick of people complaining about how kenny messed up when u can see kenny was right about everything
If you played the game u see kenny was right about jane i mean come on who lies and says she accident killed a baby janes messed up one more… more thing what if a zombie would of got the baby she was dumb to leave a baby in a car by itsself were a zombie can get who cares if your trying to prove a point jane put a babys life at risk im sick of people complaining about how kenny messed up when u can see kenny was right about everything
I could make the exact same claim about Jane fans, and or Kenny haters. TellTale either by accident or design created polarizing personalities that appeal to different people.
CHUCK YAUCK WE JUST STOOPID CASE WE DONT BELVE JQANES LIES,
Btw i am the stupid person who thinks that Jane is a manipulating narcissistic woman. According to OP he stole something i had wrote in another thread discussing her character to another Forum Member.
OP , if you want to cut and paste from my original post, why not include the whole thing. It makes me laugh, when people tell me she isn't Manipulative.
True enough, but there's a difference between exaggerating and outright lying.
Translation: I am too immature to accept someone else's interpretation of my "favorite" character, so i make a post to flame/incite people to flame me, so i can play the victim.
I'm past reasoning with those specific people at this point. It's not even a majority of Kenny fans, just spiteful ignoramuses that think th… moreeir edginess is a viable platform for reasonable discussion and would rather cuss out the opposing side than come up with even pseudo-tangible points to back their claims.
Obviously Jane isn't selfish, she never "manipulated" consensual sex out of Luke, she wasn't trying to ruin Clementine's life by taking her back to Howes, and she certainly wasn't making up her sister's tragic death.
That´s true but this topic has been used time and time again and it doesn´t seem like there´s even any new arguments on either side...it´s just looping the same stuff over and over.
That´s true but this topic has been used time and time again and it doesn´t seem like there´s even any new arguments on either side...it´s just looping the same stuff over and over.
Well actually, people aren't making stuff up. They're are just interpreting the facts. So, some people think Jane's expressions, body language and the things she says are manipulative while other people think she doesn't care about anybody because she leaves and some of the things she says suggests it.
Therefore, if you think about it; people are just taking the information and suggesting what it means because the game doesn't explain it.
It's been a few months since release, so people's memory tend to go and they don't remember scenes right or miss important details. But they continue to post what they thought happened and spread misinformation.
People tend to over-embellish what actually happened. Whether it be to help their side of the argument or just to hate on the character.
Other than that the problem could be you (not @MerakMissile2 exactly) just interpreting an opinion wrong.
We also don't know Chuck was a hobo, we don't know Kenny was a fisherman, we don't know Carley was a journalist or that Lilly snapped. Hell, maybe Lilly made it up to gain sympathy? We don't know Hans Gruber's motive was really just the money.
You see what I'm getting at? In a linear progressive plot, we have to initially trust the word of anyone that isn't evil on principle unless proved otherwise. The only place I've heard that Jane is lying is on a forum site, nowhere In the game does anyone mention that Jamie is a lie or fabrication. So although possible, it's no probable. There's no evidence anywhere in the game or conversation that she'd make up her sister.
Guess what i think?
Well, I know you don't like her. Which I can't say I particularly do either.
she certainly wasn't making up her sister's tragic death.
TBH no one knows for sure.
i do know this, she will lie about a baby being dead.
What else will she lie about?
Guess what i think?
Deflection? We are talking about Jane and her track record of lying, i don't understand what Hans Gruber has to do with Jane.
we have to initially trust the word of anyone that isn't evil on principle unless proved otherwise.
You mean when she lied about AJ being dead?
Well, I know you don't like her. Which I can't say I particularly do either.
That connection they had to establish felt extremely forced with Jane, i didn't care for her to be honest, by the time she shot Troy, i despised her, i liked how she was written though to some degree. I feel they made her over the top though, At the same token i'm not a blind Kenny fan either, he just gets away with more, because he has been around since the beginning. He is dead now anyways, so both characters are moot.
TBH no one knows for sure.
We also don't know Chuck was a hobo, we don't know Kenny was a fisherman, we don't know Carley was a jour… morenalist or that Lilly snapped. Hell, maybe Lilly made it up to gain sympathy? We don't know Hans Gruber's motive was really just the money.
You see what I'm getting at? In a linear progressive plot, we have to initially trust the word of anyone that isn't evil on principle unless proved otherwise. The only place I've heard that Jane is lying is on a forum site, nowhere In the game does anyone mention that Jamie is a lie or fabrication. So although possible, it's no probable. There's no evidence anywhere in the game or conversation that she'd make up her sister.
Guess what i think?
Well, I know you don't like her. Which I can't say I particularly do either.
I could make the exact same claim about Jane fans, and or Kenny haters. TellTale either by accident or design created polarizing personalities that appeal to different people.
Jane is my most hated character of the entire game. She is the reason Sarah is dead. She teaches Clem to leave her own friends behind. Jane didn't even help to get Sarah moving, she just gave up on her quickly. I hate selfish people, manipulaters and liars. I had no regrets killing her, this was for Sarah.
Jane this! Kenny that! It's a far too-heated debate on these forums, Everyone has their own opinion so not everyone sees things the same way… more as others, some people like Kenny more, some people like Jane more and some people don't care, I think people should just learn to respect others opinions
The Saltlick has spoken
Yeah, i think another reason i dislike her, is because of how she acts towards Kenny and Sarah, antagonizing someone i really care about and basically leaving another for dead is not something i'd ever do.
Jane is my most hated character of the entire game. She is the reason Sarah is dead. She teaches Clem to leave her own friends behind. Jane … moredidn't even help to get Sarah moving, she just gave up on her quickly. I hate selfish people, manipulaters and liars. I had no regrets killing her, this was for Sarah.
Yeah, i think another reason i dislike her, is because of how she acts towards Kenny and Sarah, antagonizing someone i really care about and basically leaving another for dead is not something i'd ever do.
Kenny was an out of control maniac who beat the living hell out of a child repeatedly (Arvo), and could have ended up with two more children dead (Clem and AJ), based on his personal obsessions, and on his complete and utter inability to listen to reason because his "feels" trumped everything, including basic logic. The only thing Kenny was right about is that if you shoot him when he's fighting with Jane, he admits that he's completely lost it and is too far gone before he dies.
And as for most of the rest of the group towards the end, let's recap:
Bonnie - An ex-junkie who betrays you.
Mike - Aids and abets Bonnie in her betrayal.
Arvo - Pissed off, freaked out, and shot Clem.
Luke - Already dead.
Kenny - Out of his goddamn mind.
AJ - A little baby who cannot survive on his own at all, in any way, shape or form.
Frankly, Jane was better (more competent, capable, stable, and trustworthy) than anyone else in the group by that point, aside from Clem. :P
dont get me wrong but i liked jane till the end of episode 4 she left and before leaving threeten a kid that turn out to ambush your group then jane comes back and thinks shes better then any one in group kenny was right about arvo and jane
If people hate or love character so much, they tend to over exagerate facts to make others want to despise or love those certain characters.
"Jane/Kenny thinks of Clem as only a replacement" when really they just grew regular attatchment to her
"Jane/Kenny was completely responsible for the fight" when really both of them are responsible, maybe one more than the other as some people claim
"Jane never shuts up about dead sister stories!" when really she's talked about her twice in relevent situations (Getting to know Clementine and how Sarah was similar to Jamie)
"kenny dindu nufin he good boy, Arvo was Stalin incarnated" when really there isn't anything good or not horrible that Kenny did in handling Arvo, and while he wasn't a saint or right for shooting Clem, his entire group was killed by us, he was robbed, beaten mercilessly, and because of little interactions we got with him he believes we killed her wounded sister who was actually a zombie.
"Jane manipulated Luke to have sex with her" when really dey both wanted sum fuk
I never liked Jane, she didn't care about anyone but herself, she abandoned Clem multiple times. She is the reason Sarah is dead and the reason Arvo ambushed Clem group. She doesn't even know how to save helpless people.
That's a lie. Sarah's dead because the writers chose to have her stand on the deck for no reason, when it made far more sense for her to be inside. Sarah's dead because everyone forgot they had ammo when Jane tries to rescue her. Jane is the only one who even tries if you tell her to.
I never liked Jane, she didn't care about anyone but herself, she abandoned Clem multiple times. She is the reason Sarah is dead and the reason Arvo ambushed Clem group. She doesn't even know how to save helpless people.
Jane makes Clem to let her die if she is left and she made Luke an offer making him ditch his own job thus letting the walkers get close and have a small chance to defend the deck.
She is the reason Sarah is dead
That's a lie. Sarah's dead because the writers chose to have her stand on the deck for no reason, wh… moreen it made far more sense for her to be inside. Sarah's dead because everyone forgot they had ammo when Jane tries to rescue her. Jane is the only one who even tries if you tell her to.
Jane doesn't "make" Clem do anything. Clementine chooses what to do. She can save Sarah, or leave her behind on her own accord.
For the record, Jane doesn't "make" anyone do anything. Luke easily could have refused, and remembered his duties as lookout, instead of thinking with his pants.
Jane makes Clem to let her die if she is left and she made Luke an offer making him ditch his own job thus letting the walkers get close and have a small chance to defend the deck.
she made Luke an offer making him ditch his own job thus letting the walkers get close
Ok really, I love both Jane and Luke but I can't understand how people keep thinking this is without a doubt Jane's fault. First off, we don't know exactly what Luke and Jane said to each other as it was never explicitly stated what they said to each other in that observation deck. In addition, Luke clearly knew what his job was. In the scene before everyone split up to do their jobs, Jane walked away immediately, saying, "I'll check the building by the river" and is not seen again the rest of that scene. And Jane left before Luke ever announced his duty to check the perimeter for walkers (a duty which he assigned to himself!) to everyone, minus possibly Jane. The rest of the group had guns; when Jane and Luke were together, Jane could've assumed some of the rest of the group was on duty if Luke never mentioned what his specific job was to Jane. If it was anyone's fault that the group was caught off guard by walkers that we can be absolutely sure of, it was most definitely, at the very least, Luke's, as he knew he had a job to do, and he instead accepted Jane's offer. The only way he couldn't have gotten away was if she forcibly had her way with him, and that just plain didn't happen. ("She made me an offer and I accepted.") If the guy had really wanted to do his duty, he would have been able to shrug Jane off and protect everyone, like he'd said he was going to.
Jane makes Clem to let her die if she is left and she made Luke an offer making him ditch his own job thus letting the walkers get close and have a small chance to defend the deck.
Before episode 5, I was hating on Luke more than Jane, I blamed him for Nick and Sarah's death, he seemed to not care about his best friend when he died, his reaction was just "Fuck..fuck" despite being his friend for 20 years and he seemed that he wanted to leave Sarah to die, leave his own friend behind,I thought he promised Carlos to look after her and I did blame him for accepting Jane's offer.
she made Luke an offer making him ditch his own job thus letting the walkers get close
Ok really, I love both Jane and Luke but I ca… moren't understand how people keep thinking this is without a doubt Jane's fault. First off, we don't know exactly what Luke and Jane said to each other as it was never explicitly stated what they said to each other in that observation deck. In addition, Luke clearly knew what his job was. In the scene before everyone split up to do their jobs, Jane walked away immediately, saying, "I'll check the building by the river" and is not seen again the rest of that scene. And Jane left before Luke ever announced his duty to check the perimeter for walkers (a duty which he assigned to himself!) to everyone, minus possibly Jane. The rest of the group had guns; when Jane and Luke were together, Jane could've assumed some of the rest of the group was on duty if Luke never mentioned what his specific job was to Jane. If … [view original content]
Kenny had the right to beat the shit out of arvo i dont care if arvo is a kid he was going to have his people kill ur group any ways this fight in start of episode 5 season 2 would never happen if jane was not a bitch and threeten arvo in first place kenny was right about jane and arvo jane was not trust able u cant call a person who lies and says she accendent killed the baby to prove a point trustable here one line kenny said that was true if she would said alvain was fine it would not got that for she wanted to fight
Kenny was an out of control maniac who beat the living hell out of a child repeatedly (Arvo), and could have ended up with two more children… more dead (Clem and AJ), based on his personal obsessions, and on his complete and utter inability to listen to reason because his "feels" trumped everything, including basic logic. The only thing Kenny was right about is that if you shoot him when he's fighting with Jane, he admits that he's completely lost it and is too far gone before he dies.
And as for most of the rest of the group towards the end, let's recap:
Bonnie - An ex-junkie who betrays you.
Mike - Aids and abets Bonnie in her betrayal.
Arvo - Pissed off, freaked out, and shot Clem.
Luke - Already dead.
Kenny - Out of his goddamn mind.
AJ - A little baby who cannot survive on his own at all, in any way, shape or form.
Frankly, Jane was better (more competent, capable, stable, and trustworthy) than anyone else in the group by that point, aside from Clem. :P
1) What percentage is there in beating the hell out of a former opponent that is now helpless, and a child to boot? If you're going to kill him than kill him, but wailing the snot out of him "just 'cuz" is senseless brutality and nothing else.
2) We have no way of knowing what they would have done, if Jane hadn't threatened Arvo. Would they have been friendlier, or would they have taken a 'survival of the fittest' mindset and tried to kill Clem's group anyway? No way to know for sure, but I lean towards the latter, because they sure didn't seem too friendly, even before Arvo mentioned running into Jane and Clem previously.
3) I had been actively looking for a way to leave Kenny myself, before the brawl between she and Kenny even took place. Hell, when Kenny was out with all those stalled/abandoned cars in the snow, I was trying my damnedest to find a 'drive the hell away' option, but couldn't. So how could I fault Jane for wanting to get the hell away from him, too?
Kenny had the right to beat the shit out of arvo i dont care if arvo is a kid he was going to have his people kill ur group any ways this fi… moreght in start of episode 5 season 2 would never happen if jane was not a bitch and threeten arvo in first place kenny was right about jane and arvo jane was not trust able u cant call a person who lies and says she accendent killed the baby to prove a point trustable here one line kenny said that was true if she would said alvain was fine it would not got that for she wanted to fight
Comments
Because haters gonna hate.
Yes, because if Jane had cared, she'd have just smiled prettily and continued humoring a man who was wanting to take a newborn child (who needs formula to survive, and they had very little left) and an 11 year-old child off on some wild goose chase through the driving snow and winter cold to an unknown camp in an unknown location, one that that might end up just being a rumor and not even existing at all, or may be filled with crazies even worse than Carver even if it is there.... yeah, that's logical, and so much more of a better choice than taking them southwards to a warmer place, to a camp you KNOW exists and has formula for the baby. Sure, Jane must have not cared at all. And really, humoring unstable people so you don't "keep getting them mad" (no matter the price), is so much more important than the value of innocent human life, too.
/sarcasm
Hey, you know... maybe it's not unresolved personal issues at all, at least not as that phrase is commonly used. Maybe it IS just plain old, straight up, bad morals. :P
If you played the game u see kenny was right about jane i mean come on who lies and says she accident killed a baby janes messed up one more thing what if a zombie would of got the baby she was dumb to leave a baby in a car by itsself were a zombie can get who cares if your trying to prove a point jane put a babys life at risk im sick of people complaining about how kenny messed up when u can see kenny was right about everything
I didn't claim to support any of those statements, I was just saying that the particular claim, "for irrational people, feelings equals facts", that feelings aren't necessarily always irrational. Feeling a certain way based on false beliefs when one knows the beliefs to be false, that's irrational.
dont get me wrong but i liked jane till the end of episode 4 she left and before leaving threeten a kid that turn out to ambush your group then jane comes back and thinks shes better then any one in group kenny was right about arvo and jane
stop.
Kenny was right about Jane, but Jane was also right about Kenny. It simply comes down to whom is the lesser of two evils
I like jane she is good person for me
I could make the exact same claim about Jane fans, and or Kenny haters. TellTale either by accident or design created polarizing personalities that appeal to different people.
CHUCK YAUCK WE JUST STOOPID CASE WE DONT BELVE JQANES LIES,
Btw i am the stupid person who thinks that Jane is a manipulating narcissistic woman. According to OP he stole something i had wrote in another thread discussing her character to another Forum Member.
OP , if you want to cut and paste from my original post, why not include the whole thing. It makes me laugh, when people tell me she isn't Manipulative.
H I L A R I O U S
Translation: I am too immature to accept someone else's interpretation of my "favorite" character, so i make a post to flame/incite people to flame me, so i can play the victim.
TBH no one knows for sure.
i do know this, she will lie about a baby being dead.
What else will she lie about?
Guess what i think?
TBH sometimes people need something to fight over, to keep these forums interesting.
Exactly right, personally i don't hate jane, or Kenny. I don't like either.
That´s true but this topic has been used time and time again and it doesn´t seem like there´s even any new arguments on either side...it´s just looping the same stuff over and over.
LOL i didn't make this topic, some other guy did, and called me out , so i came.
That sounds so wrong... but i don't care :]
Well actually, people aren't making stuff up. They're are just interpreting the facts. So, some people think Jane's expressions, body language and the things she says are manipulative while other people think she doesn't care about anybody because she leaves and some of the things she says suggests it.
Therefore, if you think about it; people are just taking the information and suggesting what it means because the game doesn't explain it.
2 reasons.
It's been a few months since release, so people's memory tend to go and they don't remember scenes right or miss important details. But they continue to post what they thought happened and spread misinformation.
People tend to over-embellish what actually happened. Whether it be to help their side of the argument or just to hate on the character.
Other than that the problem could be you (not @MerakMissile2 exactly) just interpreting an opinion wrong.
We also don't know Chuck was a hobo, we don't know Kenny was a fisherman, we don't know Carley was a journalist or that Lilly snapped. Hell, maybe Lilly made it up to gain sympathy? We don't know Hans Gruber's motive was really just the money.
You see what I'm getting at? In a linear progressive plot, we have to initially trust the word of anyone that isn't evil on principle unless proved otherwise. The only place I've heard that Jane is lying is on a forum site, nowhere In the game does anyone mention that Jamie is a lie or fabrication. So although possible, it's no probable. There's no evidence anywhere in the game or conversation that she'd make up her sister.
Well, I know you don't like her. Which I can't say I particularly do either.
Deflection? We are talking about Jane and her track record of lying, i don't understand what Hans Gruber has to do with Jane.
You mean when she lied about AJ being dead?
That connection they had to establish felt extremely forced with Jane, i didn't care for her to be honest, by the time she shot Troy, i despised her, i liked how she was written though to some degree. I feel they made her over the top though, At the same token i'm not a blind Kenny fan either, he just gets away with more, because he has been around since the beginning. He is dead now anyways, so both characters are moot.
Y
Jane is my most hated character of the entire game. She is the reason Sarah is dead. She teaches Clem to leave her own friends behind. Jane didn't even help to get Sarah moving, she just gave up on her quickly. I hate selfish people, manipulaters and liars. I had no regrets killing her, this was for Sarah.
+10 points for the most respectable debate on the Kenny vs Jane argument fellas. Was a good read
It is just a sign of how great she was if her character sucked there would be no reason to bother the same with Kenny.
Yeah, i think another reason i dislike her, is because of how she acts towards Kenny and Sarah, antagonizing someone i really care about and basically leaving another for dead is not something i'd ever do.
Exactly
Kenny was an out of control maniac who beat the living hell out of a child repeatedly (Arvo), and could have ended up with two more children dead (Clem and AJ), based on his personal obsessions, and on his complete and utter inability to listen to reason because his "feels" trumped everything, including basic logic. The only thing Kenny was right about is that if you shoot him when he's fighting with Jane, he admits that he's completely lost it and is too far gone before he dies.
And as for most of the rest of the group towards the end, let's recap:
Bonnie - An ex-junkie who betrays you.
Mike - Aids and abets Bonnie in her betrayal.
Arvo - Pissed off, freaked out, and shot Clem.
Luke - Already dead.
Kenny - Out of his goddamn mind.
AJ - A little baby who cannot survive on his own at all, in any way, shape or form.
Frankly, Jane was better (more competent, capable, stable, and trustworthy) than anyone else in the group by that point, aside from Clem. :P
If people hate or love character so much, they tend to over exagerate facts to make others want to despise or love those certain characters.
"Jane/Kenny thinks of Clem as only a replacement" when really they just grew regular attatchment to her
"Jane/Kenny was completely responsible for the fight" when really both of them are responsible, maybe one more than the other as some people claim
"Jane never shuts up about dead sister stories!" when really she's talked about her twice in relevent situations (Getting to know Clementine and how Sarah was similar to Jamie)
"kenny dindu nufin he good boy, Arvo was Stalin incarnated" when really there isn't anything good or not horrible that Kenny did in handling Arvo, and while he wasn't a saint or right for shooting Clem, his entire group was killed by us, he was robbed, beaten mercilessly, and because of little interactions we got with him he believes we killed her wounded sister who was actually a zombie.
"Jane manipulated Luke to have sex with her" when really dey both wanted sum fuk
I never liked Jane, she didn't care about anyone but herself, she abandoned Clem multiple times. She is the reason Sarah is dead and the reason Arvo ambushed Clem group. She doesn't even know how to save helpless people.
I respect Jane, because she did come back for Clementine. Remember, "You're probably 90% why I came back," (Even though the other 10% was Luke).
That's a lie. Sarah's dead because the writers chose to have her stand on the deck for no reason, when it made far more sense for her to be inside. Sarah's dead because everyone forgot they had ammo when Jane tries to rescue her. Jane is the only one who even tries if you tell her to.
Jane makes Clem to let her die if she is left and she made Luke an offer making him ditch his own job thus letting the walkers get close and have a small chance to defend the deck.
Jane doesn't "make" Clem do anything. Clementine chooses what to do. She can save Sarah, or leave her behind on her own accord.
For the record, Jane doesn't "make" anyone do anything. Luke easily could have refused, and remembered his duties as lookout, instead of thinking with his pants.
Ok really, I love both Jane and Luke but I can't understand how people keep thinking this is without a doubt Jane's fault. First off, we don't know exactly what Luke and Jane said to each other as it was never explicitly stated what they said to each other in that observation deck. In addition, Luke clearly knew what his job was. In the scene before everyone split up to do their jobs, Jane walked away immediately, saying, "I'll check the building by the river" and is not seen again the rest of that scene. And Jane left before Luke ever announced his duty to check the perimeter for walkers (a duty which he assigned to himself!) to everyone, minus possibly Jane. The rest of the group had guns; when Jane and Luke were together, Jane could've assumed some of the rest of the group was on duty if Luke never mentioned what his specific job was to Jane. If it was anyone's fault that the group was caught off guard by walkers that we can be absolutely sure of, it was most definitely, at the very least, Luke's, as he knew he had a job to do, and he instead accepted Jane's offer. The only way he couldn't have gotten away was if she forcibly had her way with him, and that just plain didn't happen. ("She made me an offer and I accepted.") If the guy had really wanted to do his duty, he would have been able to shrug Jane off and protect everyone, like he'd said he was going to.
Before episode 5, I was hating on Luke more than Jane, I blamed him for Nick and Sarah's death, he seemed to not care about his best friend when he died, his reaction was just "Fuck..fuck" despite being his friend for 20 years and he seemed that he wanted to leave Sarah to die, leave his own friend behind,I thought he promised Carlos to look after her and I did blame him for accepting Jane's offer.
I don't think anyone in their entire life has ever said that.
Kenny had the right to beat the shit out of arvo i dont care if arvo is a kid he was going to have his people kill ur group any ways this fight in start of episode 5 season 2 would never happen if jane was not a bitch and threeten arvo in first place kenny was right about jane and arvo jane was not trust able u cant call a person who lies and says she accendent killed the baby to prove a point trustable here one line kenny said that was true if she would said alvain was fine it would not got that for she wanted to fight
1) What percentage is there in beating the hell out of a former opponent that is now helpless, and a child to boot? If you're going to kill him than kill him, but wailing the snot out of him "just 'cuz" is senseless brutality and nothing else.
2) We have no way of knowing what they would have done, if Jane hadn't threatened Arvo. Would they have been friendlier, or would they have taken a 'survival of the fittest' mindset and tried to kill Clem's group anyway? No way to know for sure, but I lean towards the latter, because they sure didn't seem too friendly, even before Arvo mentioned running into Jane and Clem previously.
3) I had been actively looking for a way to leave Kenny myself, before the brawl between she and Kenny even took place. Hell, when Kenny was out with all those stalled/abandoned cars in the snow, I was trying my damnedest to find a 'drive the hell away' option, but couldn't. So how could I fault Jane for wanting to get the hell away from him, too?