Feeling sorry for Ben
I recently finished Walking dead for the second time, and Ben's death scene affected me more than the first time I finished the game. I am not sure if I am alone on this but I think that he had the most dramatic death scenes in the games. I am not sure if I actually like this character, but his death scenes depresses me nonetheless.
He was a walking disaster but I still felt quite bad for him. He had no family members with him, and all of his classmates were dead. He never bonded with anyone, and to make matters worse everyone either made fun of him or belittled him. Kenny's comment about putting a sign to tell bandits to rape their women and children, was probably the worst offender. This was before he even acted clumsy. Christa voted him out of the group, Clem made fun of him after his death. (to Nick in season 2) Chuck treated him like a child...
I am actually quite curious why telltale treated Ben in this way. What I mean is, how they wanted us to react to this character. Although many people disliked the character he kind of gained my sympathy due to the hatred he received. Also his actions never really killed a character that I cared about. If he had indirectly hurt or killed Lee, or Clem I might have reacted differently.
If you go to the hospital with only Ben, Lee wants Ben to look after Clementine if they rescue him. One part of me is actually quite curious about a scenario like this. I wonder how far he would have lasted during season 2, if the balcony incident hadn't happened. I would have loved to see Ben interacting with someone like Carver.
Comments
I too feel sorry for him. It's Kenny who had been bullying Ben for no apparent reason most of the time. Yes, Ben did stupid things now and then, but who didn't? This constant behaviour of Kenny made Ben feel sort of diffident of himself. And diffidence leads to more fails and a feeling of alienation.
I liked Ben. One of my favorite characters.
This scene too:
Always felt sorry for Ben. Poor kid was practically designed to be hated. I actually can't even watch his bell tower death.
Ben was all right I think Kenny hating him made me like him.
I've actually thought about the idea of Ben surviving into S2 if he was saved. I think it could go something like this:
His second death scene is fully done away with, and Kenny will save Christa instead. Ben gets separated along with Christa and Omid.
In S2, he'd be with you, Omid and Christa. After Omid's death, he'd still be with you, but ends up getting separated along with the rest of you.
He doesn't appear again until episode 3, where he's another person in Carver's community along with Jane, Mike and Reggie, leading to a very awkward reunion between him and Kenny. Also gives you an extra option to ask about Christa, but he just gives an unclear answer.
Ben would then survive through both the escape and episode 4, before finally dying during the gunfight in episode 5, practically surviving the entire Season determinantly.
On another note, to add on to the discussion: I think I found Ben to one of, if not the most sympathetic character in the game for me. I really felt for him the entire way through, and believe or not, he was one of the characters that I was really rooting for, hoping he'd actually survive the season. I also found him to be one of the game's best written characters, and arguably one of the most important characters to the story overall. Sure, maybe his contributions to the game were trouble, but Ben is almost single-handedly responsible for the back half of the season even happening.
Ben also provided an interesting bit of antagonism to the story: he's not a malicious person that's trying to hurt you, but he's inadvertently a danger to you and the group. It presents a very difficult moral dilemma of how you deal with someone like that, and I liked how they juxtaposed that with Crawford as a backdrop through out episode 4.
Funnily enough, way back when Around Every Corner first came out, someone spoiled that Ben dies. However, the person didn't actually mention he was determinant, so I went through the entire episode afraid that Ben was just going to randomly get killed by something, and was freaking out when the belltower scene happened thinking "oh god I'm going to have to watch him fall to his death aren't I," so when the option to save him actually popped up, I was quite happy and relieved
I'll give them credit where it's due, though. I still think the Ben decision was one of the game's best choices, especially in terms of how it was handled.
So I guess I'm one of the only one's left that still dislikes Ben?
I can understand all of the idiotic things he's done, yet him leaving Clementine to die was something I can't forgive, no matter how many times he tried to apologize.
I'm actually with you, I don't dislike Ben, but I dislike Ben when he got Doug/Carley killed! They had the most bullshit death ever yet. And I do feel sorry for Ben, without a group he would have been killed, it looks like Ben cant handle shit by himself.
I totally agree. He was one of the most complex characters in the game. Unlike Kenny and Lilly, he wasn't fighting with someone half the time. He also started out quite promising. He revealed that it's not the bite that turns people into zombies. But then he made some horrible choices.
I was also quite freaked out during the bell tower scene. It was so cinematic and well done. I was so surprised when the option to pull him up appeared. His death scene was quite difficult to watch.
I agree. However, There is something I don't understand. How come he is the only survivor of a group of 40 people? From what we have seen he isn't very talented. Either those other 39 people were extremely stupid, or Ben got really lucky. I wonder how he survived all those months.
I'm kinda on your side but still tolerate Ben at the same time. I didn't let him die of course (my Lee had a moral code to let everyone live) but he's a coward and a tad bit of a smeghead to be fair. I mean leaving Clem to die is one thing, but the fact that he was stealing supplies behind everyone's back and didn't come clean to at least someone (Lee would've been the best to talk to) sooner was really foolish. I know he thought the Save-Lots Bandits had his friend but I still thought it was a foolish move betraying everyone like that and trusting men like that to begin with. Still though, I get where Ben was coming from but he himself could have dealt with the situation better like tell Lee or someone else from the group.
He is a very complex and depressingly realistic character. He's a dork. A dork who always meant well but it was getting to the point where it was actually safer for him to do nothing at all. You don't see many characters like him and I don't know if we'll see someone who's that much of a screw-up in the series anytime soon.
No I'm with you. I've always liked Ben from the start, I thought he could be fixed and helped, his like Rocky to me where his the underdog and no one thinks he can succeed. It's obvious what TT did, they built him up to be a useless idiot then had the scene in the bell tower to see if people would safe him after what he did or remain cold and let him die. I guess it's really down to if you can give some a second chance. We can't blame Ben for doug/Carleys death because TT did it as a shock value reaction more so carley because let's be honest, no one expected carley to die that early in the game and lily was all over the place at that stage. I sometimes wonder what if Ben did survive season one, what would've happened to him as he was one I wanted to make it through, would've been nice to see Ben go from how he was in season one to a badass haha.
I dropped Ben from the tower, only because I knew the game wasn't going to leave me with an actual more rash choice just kick him out of the group.
And I didn't take Clementine meaning I never got her speech or knew she even liked him enough to care if I killed him. That choice was terribly presented and the fact that it's a clear evil / good choice is some major bull testicles that I found took me out of the experience.
People that hate Ben are either Clementine fans or Kenny fans. I honestly can't blame Ben for giving the supplies. He was pressured, one of his friends was raped, and everything just went down. When Kenny's family was killed, it was all a coincidence to either shape up Kenny or to kill off every character just like in Season 2. I didn't like how Clementine compared Ben to Nick despite it being an option. I don't blame her if she resents Ben for leaving her with walkers in her way but Ben doesn't go trigger happy and accuse people like Nick does. In reality, she was useless until Lee taught her how to shoot. The main character is usually favored whereas the minor characters are not. Examples are Lilly, Doug, and Katjaa. Ben just didn't want to confess since he didn't want to be shot by Lilly or killed by Kenny. I cannot blame him at all. I hope in Season 3 that every character gets equal development and not favor Clementine or anyone that associates with her because she and Kenny didn't really interact so why are they like the Best of Friends?
You're not alone, I really liked Ben too. He seemed like the most realistic character to me. He's just some kid in high school, and I think he reacted to things that happened the same way anyone would. I stood up for him best I could in my game.
I wish Ben didn't die no matter what. I can understand why people grumble their choices mean shit when things like this happen. Ben could have had real character development, but noooo. Ugh... But yeah, I felt bad for Ben.
I'm a big kenny fan and I like Ben. Telltale was directing so much time I'm the main characters that they lefted out the minor ones. In starved for help, Ben and carley/doug are pretty much ignored for the majority of the episode and mark had quality time but was thrown away just to reveal that the St. John's were cannibals. Katjaa is also under used until the final with Brenda and then in episode 3 is almost unrelevant. It's hypocritical because Ben doesn't tell anyone and is hated where as clementine keeps her relationship with the stranger secret and in reality got lee killed but it's okay because she's a main character and a little girl. The way they did It was like they knew carley was getting a lot of attention so they kill her off and try to get sympathy for kenny. I feel like every character should be treated equal, and some got wasted that could re been good I.e Ben, carley, chuck, Walter, Alvin, nick. Mark, Katjaa etc.
Well, Travis knew what he was doing. His dad was special forces you know.
I am glad someone mentioned how Clem got Lee killed. (Sadly, Ben, and Omid also died because of her). Bonnie was kind of right in season 2, when she mentioned how no one blames Clem because she is a pretty little girl. It is quite hypocritical that Lee belittled Duck and Ben, while praising Clem as smart. I don't think she was smart. That whole deal with the stranger proves that Lee gave her too much credit. It was pretty much an ironic twist of fate.
I also don't like the Nick and Ben comparison. They were simply too different. And no one should talk about their dead friends like that. It was a bit inappropriate. Ben risked his life for her, and came to the hospital with Lee. Overall I find season 2 quite mean spirited because of all this stuff.
I wouldn't count Omid. I don't know where that girl came from and Omid could have just found her right then and there. I also pointed out about Clementine getting Lee killed when everyone was all over Duck for getting Shawn killed. It's not fair the main character gets a pass and the minor characters don't. Season 2 just made it worse with this. The whole group is basically dead after trying to stay away from Carver.
Well he did praise duck when he found the chalk and that but not in the manner as he did with clementine. They should've made him praise Ben when the gun dropped out of his pocket and Ben picked it despite having walkers right behind him. I never saw any similarities between the two. I think they made clementine too cold and that really put me over because while I do like hard characters, clementine is not that type of character. Remember when she said "bens nice, we don't leave friends behind" and then she asked if Ben was going to be alright when they got back. And then she talks about him after he died like that in season two? Pretty stupid.
By this logic, Carley/Doug are the reason for all these characters dying because them giving Clem the batteries provided the impetus for the Stranger to contact Clem and get her to believe his lies. I mean, as long as we're making silly tenuous links and blaming Clem for the supports giving way underneath Ben. And Omid and Christa were both responsible for Omid's death due to their own foolishness. Clem leaving her gun out in the open has nothing on the two of them letting her go off completely alone while screwing elsewhere.
The only one to truly blame is the Stranger, who kidnapped Clementine. Sure, she put her trust in the wrong person, because she was 9 and desperate to find her parents.
Her argument falls right on its ass, however, when you consider the context that she was blaming Clementine for not being a moron and stepping on weakening ice, and accusing her of being exempt from expectations even though Bonnie had put numerous expectations on her up until that point, and most pertinent of all... how she, Bonnie, got Luke killed by stepping on the weakening ice herself like a moron. You could argue Luke was doomed anyway, and maybe so, but her actions and inability to think clearly on the situation had direct consequences rather than indirect. I don't think her spiel is really meant to reflect any kind of reality; it's just a grief-stricken argument that has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
No, it proves that she was a child and was swayed by the kindly sounding promises of someone who had ulterior motives. This is how child-kidnappers work. Besides, at no point was Clementine ever called a genius or something to that level by Lee. He didn't even consider her ready for anything outside of just being protected until Chuck gave him that talk. But she clearly had more of a sense of what was going on in the world than Duck, and she was helpful in many numerous ways for her age.
Quite different from the utter fuckwittery of Ben taking a hatchet out of a door clearly meant to stay closed, among other things. Also, Lee never really belittled Duck at all from what I remember. He was annoyed during the Motel sequence because Duck had been eavesdropping on a conversation that concerned an extremely serious matter of a possible traitor in the group, and Duck was treating it like a big game.
Carley and Doug had nothing to do with the stranger. Omid's death was a direct result of Clem's clumsiness. Ben's death and stolen boat was an indirect consequence of Clem trusting the stranger.
I obviously took the argument out of its context. I just liked the how Bonnie did something no one else was doing. Everyone is treating Clem like a some sort of Saint that can do no wrong.
Neither Christa nor Lee, ever blamed Clem for what happened. I am glad that some one finally mentioned the truth, even though it was for the wrong reasons.
Lee belittled Duck when he is asked about the flashlight.
If you choose the "be careful around Ben" dialog during the train section of the game, Lee mentions that Clem is smart while Ben is not making the best choices. 9 year or not Clem betrayed Lee's trust. I was a lot smarter than Clem, when it came to trusting strangers. She repeatedly wanted to contact the stranger despite Lee's warning.
Due to the collaborated efforts of Clem and the Stranger Lee got bitten. They could have been on the boat by then. Even Lee mentions this during the game and blames the stranger. I personally blame Clem. What's worse is, trusting the stranger over Lee, kind of proves that their their friendship was one sided. I don't think Clem cared all that much about anyone.
Ben didn't act very smart. We all know this. My point is trusting the stranger was just as bad as removing the hatchet, and no one even wants to accept this. Ben risked the group twice, but Clem pretty much annihilated the group. Because of the incident with the boat, Lee got bit, Ben fell to his death, Kenny got separated from the group, and in season two Omid died.
I don't hate Clem but I blame her for some of the mistakes she did in Season 1.
he did indirectly hurt lee and clem by trading with the bandits behind everyones back and not telling anyone about it. remember how they opened fire on the group at the motel?!... and he did many other stupid things which couldve resulted in disaster too. EDIT: oh yeah, like not speaking up to his treachery which put people on edge and got carly shot!!!!! oh my god i get mad just remembering all the buffoonary this guy pulled.
i am sorry that ben was an incompetent and clumsy person, but im not sorry for him leaving him behind. he was a danger to the whole group
If Clem could forgive him, so could I. I feel sympathy for Ben because some people just cant get it right no matter how hard they try. Pile on added pressure (and some guy constantly bullying and berating him) and of course hes going to crack. But he had good intentions. I dont think he deserved to be hated for making mistakes anyone could make.
It wasn't about what she wanted, it was about what was best for her. And I would rather have her be sad for a while and alive than happy and then dead later on. Again though, both options were terribly handled. The fact you have to straight up murder an innocent man just because he was a potential threat to the group and couldn't just oh I don't know, kicked him out and took change of the group's whole democracy bullshit and said "no, my opinion is the one that matters. This guy almost got Clementine killed because of his noodle-spine cowardice and I won't stand for him being a par of this group to waste more people." We gave the kid chance after chance, and he blew them all.
Not even good excuses by the end either. I mean, who the hell grabs a fucking axe that is clearly placed on a door's handle to prevent walkers from coming in? Was he dropped as a kid? The kid just couldn't be trusted or valued any longer as a functional member of the group any more.
Eh, I was never a huge fan of him, but I do believe that he received quite a bit of unnecessary hatred. From certain fans, I'd say...
I think kicking him out of the group was akin to murder since he couldnt survive without the group. I understand being mad at him. I was too at the time, very mad, but he made bad decisions not malicious one. I guess it depends on the player whether or not you find that unforgivable in itself.
I wouldn't kick him out without giving him a small ration of food and some blankets just so he has a fighting chance. Saying it's akin to murder is a stretch. Keeping him with the group would've cause more death than just himself anyway.
And I understand his decisions weren't meant to be bad, but he never learned and he inadvertently cause the deaths of more people that were worth the trouble.
I agree on Bonnie. She forces Clementine to talk to Kenny even though Clementine has the option to say no. She is obviously blinded by Luke's dick. Carver is right on one thing: incompetence puts us all at risk.