Gwyn's only as unpleasant as you are to her. If you refuse to work with her, insult her and ultimately betray her as Asher, it makes total s… moreense that she turns on you. Work with her and she's a pretty good ally. I personally like her character a lot.
That said, her inability to see what a douchebag her father is can get irritating at times.
Aww poor Gwyn seeing your family die in front of her. . Not like we ever went through that
Anyway no problem right we could just have peace after her father and brother were dead that's what she expects us to do right?
I can't really say if it's wrong to try to kill someone who just murdered their father or brother despite lying and pretending to keep peace. I find her actions at the very least understandable. She didn't want mindless bloodshed and won't tolerate those who break vows.
Sorry to say, but the peace that Gwyn proposed was only a one-sided deal, the Whitehills get to keep lording over the Forresters (the Forresters would have their lives, which they already) and would probably gloat about it for the rest of their lives, it would practically be slavery. Which I think is a fate far worse than death.
So you wanted to kill Gryff/Ludd for killing your brother yet you blame her of trying to kill you when you had just killed her brother/father?
Gwyn tried to make peace, you destroyed it, you are to blame. It is that simple.
Isn't it ironic that Rodrik is now leading a tragedy similar to one he almost died in. He broke 2 vows (1 for guest right the other for lying to her, which is determinant)
Well, no. If Ludd and Gryff were both dead, the army would have no lord, and the soldiers would have deserted. That's why it is generally a good tactic to kill the lord, because the soldiers are mostly made up of peasant levies, who would rather return to their homes and fields. Harys might try to rally them, but with Ludd and Gryff both dead, and Torrhen off with the Boltons, at least for the moment the army would have been broken enough for the Forrester's to win.
I can't really say if it's wrong to try to kill someone who just murdered their father or brother despite lying and pretending to keep peace… more. I find her actions at the very least understandable. She didn't want mindless bloodshed and won't tolerate those who break vows.
Play the nice and innocent sympathizer so your house will make mistakes. Share information and dissent to lower morale.
Sure she gave some information here or there, said she protected Ryon. But the hell did you anticipate? A Whitehill is still a Whitehill.
As it stands in the Whitehill legacy we have to look at?
We got Ludd/Gryff, Gwyn, and Torrhen. Their maester second-born Ebbert could also use a good stab.
And yeeees, Gwyn's intentions are honest. She sends that fucking forewarning to Rodrick for no gain and much to lose.
Doesn't mean that her blindness toward her family's outright injustice doesn't stand. Fact of the matter is; you don't garrison 21 assholes in a starving hold and try to humiliate your hosts. You're fucking guests, and if you want to be treated like guests of honor, you might as well bloody have some.
On the contrary when the Forresters went to Highpoint she held restraint and pretty much saved them from being killed. Her and her family weren't offered the same
I don't hate her for stabbing me, I hate her dumb attitude that she has appearing to discount everything her family does, then expects us to roll over.
Her whole "it could be so different" sorry but why do I care about her feelings ? Why does she feel she is remotely even slightly valid to complain about anything
So you wanted to kill Gryff/Ludd for killing your brother yet you blame her of trying to kill you when you had just killed her brother/father?
Gwyn tried to make peace, you destroyed it, you are to blame. It is that simple.
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehills and an heir to Gwyn.
Now imagine: you are alive, you have your keep and your people, all you have to do is give Ironwood to the Whitehills: nothing is stopping you from ploting against the Whitehills in secret. You increase the number of men in your army slowly, and then when you have enough men and you are prepared to face the Whitehills number, you rebel against the Whitehills and become independent again. Then you can try to anihilate their house (a lot of bloodshed from both sides and an uncertain victory) or just get away from them (no bloodshed).
Long story short: anything is better then what happened.
We didn't have the numbers so it was really dumb (IMO) to try to strike against the Whitehills.
Sorry to say, but the peace that Gwyn proposed was only a one-sided deal, the Whitehills get to keep lording over the Forresters (the Forres… moreters would have their lives, which they already) and would probably gloat about it for the rest of their lives, it would practically be slavery. Which I think is a fate far worse than death.
I don't hate her for stabbing me, I hate her dumb attitude that she has appearing to discount everything her family does, then expects us to roll over.
Well, I agree, she trying to redeem what her father did is anoying and silly but still not reason enough (IMO) to hate her character.
Her whole "it could be so different" sorry but why do I care about her feelings ? Why does she feel she is remotely even slightly valid to complain about anything
The "it could be so different" was about the bloodshed that had just started not just about her feelings. And I do think she has a valid reason to complain since you had just killed her father/brother :P As she said it really could've been much different (as I stated in a reply above).
I don't hate her for stabbing me, I hate her dumb attitude that she has appearing to discount everything her family does, then expects us to… more roll over.
Her whole "it could be so different" sorry but why do I care about her feelings ? Why does she feel she is remotely even slightly valid to complain about anything
On the contrary when the Forresters went to Highpoint she held restraint and pretty much saved them from being killed. Her and her family weren't offered the same
Never been called it once and once again you aren't using it correctly. Take that crap back to 4chan child. I don't have time to entertain your simple mind.
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehil… morels and an heir to Gwyn.
Now imagine: you are alive, you have your keep and your people, all you have to do is give Ironwood to the Whitehills: nothing is stopping you from ploting against the Whitehills in secret. You increase the number of men in your army slowly, and then when you have enough men and you are prepared to face the Whitehills number, you rebel against the Whitehills and become independent again. Then you can try to anihilate their house (a lot of bloodshed from both sides and an uncertain victory) or just get away from them (no bloodshed).
Long story short: anything is better then what happened.
We didn't have the numbers so it was really dumb (IMO) to try to strike against the Whitehills.
Never been called it once and once again you aren't using it correctly. Take that crap back to 4chan child. I don't have time to entertain your simple mind.
I just can't understand how anyone could even trust her with another "just bow before my father, do this and that and you will be safe" plan of hers. The last one worked out pretty well, didn't it? Rodrik's death apparently doesn't matter.
I just can't understand how anyone could even trust her with another "just bow before my father, do this and that and you will be safe" plan of hers. The last one worked out pretty well, didn't it? Rodrik's death apparently doesn't matter.
I can't really say if it's wrong to try to kill someone who just murdered their father or brother despite lying and pretending to keep peace… more. I find her actions at the very least understandable. She didn't want mindless bloodshed and won't tolerate those who break vows.
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehil… morels and an heir to Gwyn.
Now imagine: you are alive, you have your keep and your people, all you have to do is give Ironwood to the Whitehills: nothing is stopping you from ploting against the Whitehills in secret. You increase the number of men in your army slowly, and then when you have enough men and you are prepared to face the Whitehills number, you rebel against the Whitehills and become independent again. Then you can try to anihilate their house (a lot of bloodshed from both sides and an uncertain victory) or just get away from them (no bloodshed).
Long story short: anything is better then what happened.
We didn't have the numbers so it was really dumb (IMO) to try to strike against the Whitehills.
Yes, in response to your idiotic comments. Next time you're called out for being a fool, just embrace it. Don't hide behind terms you learn from 4chan. Concession accepted.
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehills and an heir to Gwyn.
I don't agree. I gave the Whitehills plenty of opportunities to prove themselves reasonable. I was diplomatic as fuck in my first playthrough and they still treat the Forresters the exact same way as if you choose rebellious or violent options the entire time. There's no way marrying Gwyn would have stopped that. Like Asher says, the minute Gwyn produced an heir, it'd be bye bye Asher (and his family as well, if they hadn't already been killed by then). The Forresters - even the children - would have been prisoners and shown no mercy at the slightest hint of a perceived affront, because that's the kind of asshole Ludd Whitehill and his giant douche of a son are.
I told Gwyn that I believed her intentions were good (and I did believe that), but that fate would decide whether or not I'd ambush the Whitehills. And Ludd was ready to murder us all over a slight about the damned chair. I held off on pressing X↑ as long as I could but at that point Ludd proved that any promise of peace coming from his pompous lying mouth was fake as fuck.
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehil… morels and an heir to Gwyn.
Now imagine: you are alive, you have your keep and your people, all you have to do is give Ironwood to the Whitehills: nothing is stopping you from ploting against the Whitehills in secret. You increase the number of men in your army slowly, and then when you have enough men and you are prepared to face the Whitehills number, you rebel against the Whitehills and become independent again. Then you can try to anihilate their house (a lot of bloodshed from both sides and an uncertain victory) or just get away from them (no bloodshed).
Long story short: anything is better then what happened.
We didn't have the numbers so it was really dumb (IMO) to try to strike against the Whitehills.
Yeah, I honestly believe she's one of those people who believe their loved ones can be reasoned with, even though they've seen those loved ones do atrocious things. Family bonds can be weird, I guess. Sort of like that trope in horror films when a serial-killer's mother will try to protect them from the police (to the point of committing violence against the police herself) and insists her child is a good person... you know, despite murdering people.
From her point of view it's fairly obvious that she is just a woman in love. Her entire arc is based around the idea of getting Asher back to her, and she is using the power she has to make that happen. Her willingness to exile her brother is proof of that alone, but in this context her past actions make sense as well. Even taking into consideration her line that "this isn't about Asher", her actions show otherwise.
If Archer dies Ludd acts very differently, and so does Gwyn. Gwyn still warns Rodrik that Ludd is on his way, but she isn't there. Nor is she with her father's army the way she is if Asher is alive. I'm assuming because she is morning his death, which is also why she warns Rodrik ahead of time. There is likely a part of her that wants her family to pay for killing the man she loves.
In fact the only way she turns against Asher is if he uses the marriage she has wanted with him as a way to trick Ludd. It seems to have less to do with her family being under threat, as much as it has to do with Asher betraying the love and faith that she puts in their relationship. Further despite her being the one to mention "A Whitehill is still a Whitehill." If Asher agrees to be her husband, she doesn't freak out about him killing Gryff, in fact she defends Asher and ultimately is seen later with the Forresters far away from her triumphant father. She also has no problem exiling Gryff if that would put Asher's mind to rest.
I think it obvious that her ultimate plan is to simply join the houses as one, and for both Asher and her to run it as equals after her Father dies. Her talking about how close the families once were is evidence enough of that, as she longingly stares at the old wooden standard that has the Forresters and Whitehills crest together.
It doesn't help us as players though to really get the full focus of her and Asher's love story though, since it's only hinted at, and really can only be appreciated if you play the game multiple times with different options. I don't blame anyone for not trusting Gwyn, but if you pull the different storylines together the love story is there underneath for both of them. Had Asher and Gwyn been aloud to stay together after becoming lovers it is likely that the war would never of happened.
You're still messaging me, despite the fact you supposedly don't care and don't have time for me. Is the irony seriously lost on you here? Y'know this whole schtick you have of toddling around posting the same message everywhere that's essentially "I HAVE A MASSIVE BONER FOR RODRICK KILLING GWYN" to the point where you openly send snide messages at people who like the character cos you you think you're a badass, then getting butthurt when I mock you for it? Real, real edginess.
Rightt I'll spell it out for you. You don't like the character. I disagree. That's simply down to taste. So if you want an argument about that I suggest you go poke someone else, cos as long as you keep messaging me, I am just going to continue to take the piss out of you. Agreed?
Yes, in response to your idiotic comments. Next time you're called out for being a fool, just embrace it. Don't hide behind terms you learn from 4chan. Concession accepted.
Me neither, belive me. I just can't understand why they hate her and want to kill her. What has she done that makes you want her dead? I just can't understand.
From her point of view it's fairly obvious that she is just a woman in love. Her entire arc is based around the idea of getting Asher back t… moreo her, and she is using the power she has to make that happen. Her willingness to exile her brother is proof of that alone, but in this context her past actions make sense as well. Even taking into consideration her line that "this isn't about Asher", her actions show otherwise.
If Archer dies Ludd acts very differently, and so does Gwyn. Gwyn still warns Rodrik that Ludd is on his way, but she isn't there. Nor is she with her father's army the way she is if Asher is alive. I'm assuming because she is morning his death, which is also why she warns Rodrik ahead of time. There is likely a part of her that wants her family to pay for killing the man she loves.
In fact the only way she turns against Asher is if he uses the marriage she has wanted with him as a way to trick Ludd. It seems to have less to… [view original content]
Look if you disagree that's ok then we're getting into opinions that aren't arguable.
But I disagree with some of the points you made there...
I was diplomatic as fuck in my first playthrough and they still treat the Forresters the exact same way as if you choose rebellious or violent options the entire time.
Look, can't you take a few insults? You prefer dying than listen to some? Seriously you doomed all your family and smallfolk just because some insults? No, it makes no sense to me sorry.
Like Asher says, the minute Gwyn produced an heir, it'd be bye bye Asher (and his family as well, if they hadn't already been killed by then).
Let's put ourselves in Ludd's mind: "I have 5 times the forces they have, I could destroy them all right now but my daughter is asking me to give them an opportunity to keep their heads, which I accepted.." Now from your point of view he also thinks: "which I accepted... just to kill them later all the same!" Why would Ludd spare them at that moment to murder them all later? It makes no sense to me sorry.
And Ludd was ready to murder us all over a slight about the damned chair
Was he?
Now I think most of you think as Ludd as the antichrist that only wants destrucion and bring the Forresters to ruin, I'm inclined to disagree. In Rodrik's playthrough he even says that he's only doing that because of Ramsey's rules to bring the Houses to war. In Asher's playthrough he even finds a way for both Houses to survive.
Imho if you poison/ambush Ludd you become the villain of the story.
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehil… morels and an heir to Gwyn.
I don't agree. I gave the Whitehills plenty of opportunities to prove themselves reasonable. I was diplomatic as fuck in my first playthrough and they still treat the Forresters the exact same way as if you choose rebellious or violent options the entire time. There's no way marrying Gwyn would have stopped that. Like Asher says, the minute Gwyn produced an heir, it'd be bye bye Asher (and his family as well, if they hadn't already been killed by then). The Forresters - even the children - would have been prisoners and shown no mercy at the slightest hint of a perceived affront, because that's the kind of asshole Ludd Whitehill and his giant douche of a son are.
I told Gwyn that I believed her intentions were good (and I did believe that), but that fate would decide whet… [view original content]
Comments
If by "work with her" you mean "bend over for her family". Sorry but my Rodrik wasn't a coward.
So you wanted to kill Gryff/Ludd for killing your brother yet you blame her of trying to kill you when you had just killed her brother/father?
Gwyn tried to make peace, you destroyed it, you are to blame. It is that simple.
I can't really say if it's wrong to try to kill someone who just murdered their father or brother despite lying and pretending to keep peace. I find her actions at the very least understandable. She didn't want mindless bloodshed and won't tolerate those who break vows.
Sorry to say, but the peace that Gwyn proposed was only a one-sided deal, the Whitehills get to keep lording over the Forresters (the Forresters would have their lives, which they already) and would probably gloat about it for the rest of their lives, it would practically be slavery. Which I think is a fate far worse than death.
Isn't it ironic that Rodrik is now leading a tragedy similar to one he almost died in. He broke 2 vows (1 for guest right the other for lying to her, which is determinant)
Well, no. If Ludd and Gryff were both dead, the army would have no lord, and the soldiers would have deserted. That's why it is generally a good tactic to kill the lord, because the soldiers are mostly made up of peasant levies, who would rather return to their homes and fields. Harys might try to rally them, but with Ludd and Gryff both dead, and Torrhen off with the Boltons, at least for the moment the army would have been broken enough for the Forrester's to win.
Yes, but she's also never experienced something like the Forresters have. Having your whole family powerless and tormented.
The bitch's scheme is obvious.
Play the nice and innocent sympathizer so your house will make mistakes. Share information and dissent to lower morale.
Sure she gave some information here or there, said she protected Ryon. But the hell did you anticipate? A Whitehill is still a Whitehill.
As it stands in the Whitehill legacy we have to look at?
We got Ludd/Gryff, Gwyn, and Torrhen. Their maester second-born Ebbert could also use a good stab.
And yeeees, Gwyn's intentions are honest. She sends that fucking forewarning to Rodrick for no gain and much to lose.
Doesn't mean that her blindness toward her family's outright injustice doesn't stand. Fact of the matter is; you don't garrison 21 assholes in a starving hold and try to humiliate your hosts. You're fucking guests, and if you want to be treated like guests of honor, you might as well bloody have some.
On the contrary when the Forresters went to Highpoint she held restraint and pretty much saved them from being killed. Her and her family weren't offered the same
I don't hate her for stabbing me, I hate her dumb attitude that she has appearing to discount everything her family does, then expects us to roll over.
Her whole "it could be so different" sorry but why do I care about her feelings ? Why does she feel she is remotely even slightly valid to complain about anything
No I still think that keeping yourself, your family and everyone at Ironrath alive is worth the sacrifice of giving Ironwood to the Whitehills and an heir to Gwyn.
Now imagine: you are alive, you have your keep and your people, all you have to do is give Ironwood to the Whitehills: nothing is stopping you from ploting against the Whitehills in secret. You increase the number of men in your army slowly, and then when you have enough men and you are prepared to face the Whitehills number, you rebel against the Whitehills and become independent again. Then you can try to anihilate their house (a lot of bloodshed from both sides and an uncertain victory) or just get away from them (no bloodshed).
Long story short: anything is better then what happened.
We didn't have the numbers so it was really dumb (IMO) to try to strike against the Whitehills.
Well, I agree, she trying to redeem what her father did is anoying and silly but still not reason enough (IMO) to hate her character.
The "it could be so different" was about the bloodshed that had just started not just about her feelings. And I do think she has a valid reason to complain since you had just killed her father/brother :P As she said it really could've been much different (as I stated in a reply above).
[removed]
Wait what? She just stood there moping, she didn't do anything. Certainly didn't help ryon when ludd almost mutilated him
You are the edgiest edgelord on the entire forum.
How does that statement make me an edgelord? Its a stupid phrase to begin with, but you aren't even using it properly. What a dope. XD
Whitehills are all cunts.
Thank god I'm doing Rodrik's storyline.
I get the feeling you get called an edgelord a lot. It's not without good reason m8.
Yea, i'd love to get a scene where you can choose to kill her.
Never been called it once and once again you aren't using it correctly. Take that crap back to 4chan child. I don't have time to entertain your simple mind.
Agreed. It would be a good split decision I am sure. I know she has a lot of fans too.
Yep, I agree. Gwyn's idea was the best imo
She's not fake, if I give Gwyn anything it's that she actually believes all that crap that comes out her mouth
...and yet you took time out of your day to write multiple messages to me.
I wish we had an option to kill her
I just can't understand how anyone could even trust her with another "just bow before my father, do this and that and you will be safe" plan of hers. The last one worked out pretty well, didn't it? Rodrik's death apparently doesn't matter.
Maybe it would've worked but Ramsey showed up and made the Houses go to war.
I would stab her the same way she stabbed asher. Or better yet...off with her head.
[removed]
Keep in mind that if anything happened to Ludd, Torrhen and Gryff, Asher's son with Gwyn would have been heir to both house Forrester and Whitehill.
Letting the Forresters live (even as vassals) and giving them a claim on your titles seems like a very good deal to me.
Yes, in response to your idiotic comments. Next time you're called out for being a fool, just embrace it. Don't hide behind terms you learn from 4chan. Concession accepted.
I don't agree. I gave the Whitehills plenty of opportunities to prove themselves reasonable. I was diplomatic as fuck in my first playthrough and they still treat the Forresters the exact same way as if you choose rebellious or violent options the entire time. There's no way marrying Gwyn would have stopped that. Like Asher says, the minute Gwyn produced an heir, it'd be bye bye Asher (and his family as well, if they hadn't already been killed by then). The Forresters - even the children - would have been prisoners and shown no mercy at the slightest hint of a perceived affront, because that's the kind of asshole Ludd Whitehill and his giant douche of a son are.
I told Gwyn that I believed her intentions were good (and I did believe that), but that fate would decide whether or not I'd ambush the Whitehills. And Ludd was ready to murder us all over a slight about the damned chair. I held off on pressing X↑ as long as I could but at that point Ludd proved that any promise of peace coming from his pompous lying mouth was fake as fuck.
Yeah, I honestly believe she's one of those people who believe their loved ones can be reasoned with, even though they've seen those loved ones do atrocious things. Family bonds can be weird, I guess. Sort of like that trope in horror films when a serial-killer's mother will try to protect them from the police (to the point of committing violence against the police herself) and insists her child is a good person... you know, despite murdering people.
From her point of view it's fairly obvious that she is just a woman in love. Her entire arc is based around the idea of getting Asher back to her, and she is using the power she has to make that happen. Her willingness to exile her brother is proof of that alone, but in this context her past actions make sense as well. Even taking into consideration her line that "this isn't about Asher", her actions show otherwise.
If Archer dies Ludd acts very differently, and so does Gwyn. Gwyn still warns Rodrik that Ludd is on his way, but she isn't there. Nor is she with her father's army the way she is if Asher is alive. I'm assuming because she is morning his death, which is also why she warns Rodrik ahead of time. There is likely a part of her that wants her family to pay for killing the man she loves.
In fact the only way she turns against Asher is if he uses the marriage she has wanted with him as a way to trick Ludd. It seems to have less to do with her family being under threat, as much as it has to do with Asher betraying the love and faith that she puts in their relationship. Further despite her being the one to mention "A Whitehill is still a Whitehill." If Asher agrees to be her husband, she doesn't freak out about him killing Gryff, in fact she defends Asher and ultimately is seen later with the Forresters far away from her triumphant father. She also has no problem exiling Gryff if that would put Asher's mind to rest.
I think it obvious that her ultimate plan is to simply join the houses as one, and for both Asher and her to run it as equals after her Father dies. Her talking about how close the families once were is evidence enough of that, as she longingly stares at the old wooden standard that has the Forresters and Whitehills crest together.
It doesn't help us as players though to really get the full focus of her and Asher's love story though, since it's only hinted at, and really can only be appreciated if you play the game multiple times with different options. I don't blame anyone for not trusting Gwyn, but if you pull the different storylines together the love story is there underneath for both of them. Had Asher and Gwyn been aloud to stay together after becoming lovers it is likely that the war would never of happened.
I prefer...HOW WE KILL HER>
You're still messaging me, despite the fact you supposedly don't care and don't have time for me. Is the irony seriously lost on you here? Y'know this whole schtick you have of toddling around posting the same message everywhere that's essentially "I HAVE A MASSIVE BONER FOR RODRICK KILLING GWYN" to the point where you openly send snide messages at people who like the character cos you you think you're a badass, then getting butthurt when I mock you for it? Real, real edginess.
Rightt I'll spell it out for you. You don't like the character. I disagree. That's simply down to taste. So if you want an argument about that I suggest you go poke someone else, cos as long as you keep messaging me, I am just going to continue to take the piss out of you. Agreed?
Oh, she's definitely horrible. Just look at this concept art of her original design!
Me neither, belive me. I just can't understand why they hate her and want to kill her. What has she done that makes you want her dead? I just can't understand.
Look if you disagree that's ok then we're getting into opinions that aren't arguable.
But I disagree with some of the points you made there...
Look, can't you take a few insults? You prefer dying than listen to some? Seriously you doomed all your family and smallfolk just because some insults? No, it makes no sense to me sorry.
Let's put ourselves in Ludd's mind: "I have 5 times the forces they have, I could destroy them all right now but my daughter is asking me to give them an opportunity to keep their heads, which I accepted.." Now from your point of view he also thinks: "which I accepted... just to kill them later all the same!" Why would Ludd spare them at that moment to murder them all later? It makes no sense to me sorry.
Was he?
Now I think most of you think as Ludd as the antichrist that only wants destrucion and bring the Forresters to ruin, I'm inclined to disagree. In Rodrik's playthrough he even says that he's only doing that because of Ramsey's rules to bring the Houses to war. In Asher's playthrough he even finds a way for both Houses to survive.
Imho if you poison/ambush Ludd you become the villain of the story.
What makes it worse is she is the voice of beloved Fiona