well i live in a family of 4 others siblings and so im more the hurt others who try to hurt what i have. so thats kinda why im more with kenny xD he hurts others who try to hurt whats left of what he has. i mean the cunt did lose an eye so clementine wouldnt be hurt. and besides you and lee did the zombie guts thing, so chances were clementine wouldve thought of that anyway. i wanted a character that clementine could rely on. jane was too lone wolf and left when things got tough and kenny is too unstable. so thats why i liked the ending where i went with kenny to wellington and left clementine and AJ there while kenny went his own way. as unstable as kenny gets you cant hate him.
He's played a larger part but we mustn't forget that it was thanks to Jane that everyone found a way to escape Howe's and it was thanks to J… moreane that they had shelter from the cold and Walkers and it was thanks to Jane that Kenny lived at the beginning of Episode 5, he may have been around for longer but whether he's a more major character at this point is subjective. I personally felt attached to Jane cause I understand being an introvert, what I like about her the most is how she can develop as a character thanks to Clementine. I felt attached to Kenny too and I've forgiven some of the things he's done but it's hard to continue to feel attached to a character who makes you feel angry every few seconds after a genuine apology because he ends up doing something rude to someone else
I agree that people, because of this rivalry, dont give Jane enough credit. She did a lot to help the group in spite of her tendency to not … morewant to get too close, which is a perfectly valid way to feel. She is the exact opposite of Kenny, but that doesnt make her worse.
I too found it weird that Clementine is basically angry at Jane no matter what and isn't angry at Kenny in the same way.
I beg to di… moreffer. You can flat out murder Kenny by shooting him in the head when the fight is over. You don't get this option with Jane.
yeah we should just stop getting angry at each other for picking the other side xD it was our choice and thats what makes telltale games so good. you can make your own choices.
If there was one thing that I think they did good in Season 2, it was helping the player develop opinions on both Jane and Kenny and have th… moreem make the choice between who lives and who dies on who they liked more. I felt that any thread I went on about this decision, it seemed like it was a 50/50 split between the fans. If they did that writing more often in Season 2, I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
skilled survivor. yes. cares about people. no (leaves sister to die, leaves group when they got in trouble, leaves aj in a car in the middle of a blizzard filled with zombies, tries to kill kenny, doesnt give a shit when she lets clementine shoot kenny), approaches things with a sensible mindset. yes and no. leaving the baby in the car and says she gets the baby killed so kenny gets angry was not her finest idea xD stand up when she sees injustice. only stood up for "injustice" when she saw a russian guy she had a crush on get beat up xD and even then the guy took off with 2 other people and has clementine shot. saved clementine's life. i dont know mightve missed a part where she was saved. saved kenny's life. nope she tries to kill him instead. helped the group escape from carver. well if your talking about zombie guts chances are clementine wouldve mentioned that anyway. as for the last part i dont really know what you mean. if you mean edgy then yeah sure xD
Goods? Skilled survivor, cares about people, approaches things with a sensible mindset, very defensive of those she cares about, stands up w… morehen she sees injustice, saved Clementine's life, saved Kenny's life, helped the group escape from Carver, and is far more nuanced than most characters in the game with her complex issues regarding survival and her sister.
I played season one, I believe, three times. Once, I was able to talk him down, another, he fought me, so I pobably told him "Ill fight you before I let you go on like this." Something to that effect. I didnt know up until that point how irrationally violent he could be. He wasnt physically attacking Lee before then. Mostly he was using his sharp tongue. I thought he could be reasoned with until the train scene. Thats when he started becoming "a guy like Kenny" to me. I get that he went through a huge trauma that would destroy most people but I still didnt want my Lee and Clem to be around him when he inevitably cracked. Thats why that dialogue option to say Clem and Lee were going to go off on their own appealed to me. Not that it mattered in the end.
If you don't choose to fight him yourself, he'll only attack you if you choose one of the following two lines: "How many sons are you going … moreto let die?" or "You couldn't save Shawn OR Duck"
And in all honesty, as much as I hate to say it, you are kind of asking for a fight when you decide to say something like "You couldn't save Hershel's son then, and you can't save Duck now. So you're running like a coward." to a guy like Kenny.
I mean, we're talking about a guy that already has blatantly obvious temper issues, which are further compounded by the fact that one of his first instincts is to go into attack mode during a confrontation. Even if it is the truth, it's pretty much egging on someone that is already in a very fragile emotional state, anger issues aside. I cannot see any reason he'd just let it slide and let bygones be bygones. The game made it pretty clear up to that point that Kenny's of the 'shoot first, ask questions later' … [view original content]
Well, what do you mean by understand the series exactly? Everyone understands it in a different way - different perspectives, so yeah, I think I can say that people can understand the series without appreciating main characters, I for one have always been a fan of more minor characters, thus appreciating major ones less, doesn't mean I don't understand the series, especially since there's no specific thing I need to understand to get the full experience. Well that may be your opinion but it's a fact that some people like Omid and Luke better, doesn't mean Kenny is bad character however, it just means people like a character or find them more interesting than another character, all 3 are major characters that push the story forward after all. I wouldn't call people 'Kenny Critics' just cause they dislike Kenny, even if it is the majority, people should be able to share their opinion without being labelled as 'haters' or 'critics' or 'lovers' etc.
Well my opinion is that someone can't really get the full experience or really understand the series if they don't appreciate Kenny's charac… moreter. For me, it's not too different to if someone hated Lee and just repeated his bad qualities or things he/she hated about the character over and over and thought Luke or Omid were better characters. Can you really say that person got the full experience, or even understood the series? Kenny, like Lee is just too much of a driving force in the series to ever be worse than Luke or Omid. The Kenny critics are the dominant opinion right now from what i'm seeing.
The entire point is that she DIDN'T leave her to die, because she cared about her so much, but finally realised that her sister didn't even want to survive, and so to drag her around wasn't being compassionate.
Caring about someone isn't forcing them to do something they don't want to.
She saved Kenny and Clem's life, and when Kenny is beating Arvo she immediately is tryign to light a fire to warm up Clem.
She leaves AJ in the care because she mistakenly believes that's the only way Clementine will listen to her and not follow Kenny, which is still caring about Clem.
She tries to end the conflict with Kenny and is visibly scare when he comes for her - suggesting that her plan all along is to kill Kenny would mean that the AJ plan didn't even make irrational sense.
Do you really think that Jane has no positive sides? Do you not think in a choice designed to be tricky, if you think there is absolutely nothing good vis a vis clementine in her character? Do you not think that simply shows pure bias?
saved kenny's life. nope she tries to kill him instead.
Are you being obtuse on purpose? She does save Kenny#'s life at the beginning of the episode, whether that supports your bias or not.
skilled survivor. yes. cares about people. no (leaves sister to die, leaves group when they got in trouble, leaves aj in a car in the middle… more of a blizzard filled with zombies, tries to kill kenny, doesnt give a shit when she lets clementine shoot kenny), approaches things with a sensible mindset. yes and no. leaving the baby in the car and says she gets the baby killed so kenny gets angry was not her finest idea xD stand up when she sees injustice. only stood up for "injustice" when she saw a russian guy she had a crush on get beat up xD and even then the guy took off with 2 other people and has clementine shot. saved clementine's life. i dont know mightve missed a part where she was saved. saved kenny's life. nope she tries to kill him instead. helped the group escape from carver. well if your talking about zombie guts chances are clementine wouldve mentioned that anyway. as for the last part i dont really know what you mean. if you mean edgy then yeah sure xD
Lee was able to keep a cool head when things were hot. That is an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL quality for a good leader. If you can't keep a cool head when things are tough, then it doesn't matter how good your skills are as a leader, as your anger will not only cloud your judgement, but it will also make you seem wild, reckless, and therefore untrustworthy.
"...except no he wasn't."
Lol but no, I'm just playin'. I also agree he was not a good leader.
"People follow leaders because they have seemingly definite answers, as though it Goes from God to the Leader to You and me. They can't appe… morear wishy-washy, can't reveal their thinking...If they blurt every thought or plan out as they're thinking, then others realize he doesn't know what to do any more than the rest of us...he's just weighing the options like the rest of us."
I think Kenny had some good leadership skills, but the strain of being a leader was to much for him.
And though he often had good intentions, he let his temper get the best of him.
And let's not forget that he went through some heartwrenching losses in both games, so that certainly didn't help things.
The reason why people looked up to Lee, is because Lee was able to keep a cool head when things were hot.
That is an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL quality for a good leader.
If you can't keep a cool head when things are tough, then it doesn't matter how good your skills are… [view original content]
The entire point is that she DIDN'T leave her to die, because she cared about her so much, but finally realised that her sister didn't even want to survive, and so to drag her around wasn't being compassionate.
I agree that Jane didn't leave her sister to die in an evil sense no, but the thing is, if it was my brother or sister, no matter what they say I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive. Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that he/she isn't thinking about how his/her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that.
Point is, i just couldn't do that to someone i love. Jane may have had her reasons but I certainly wouldn't do what she did and that's my opinion.
She leaves AJ in the care because she mistakenly believes that's the only way Clementine will listen to her and not follow Kenny, which is still caring about Clem.
Without her actually saying "your coming with me like it or not", i'd say this was her way of kind of forcing Clementine to leave Kenny and go with her without her actually verbally saying it if you see what i mean. I just think that instead of what she did, she should have had a deep conversation with Clem about it at some point and asked her what she wanted to do and if Clem didn't want to leave Kenny then Jane should have just left on her own if she didn't want to be around Kenny.
Did you even pay attention to the sister story?
The entire point is that she DIDN'T leave her to die, because she cared about her so much… more, but finally realised that her sister didn't even want to survive, and so to drag her around wasn't being compassionate.
Caring about someone isn't forcing them to do something they don't want to.
She saved Kenny and Clem's life, and when Kenny is beating Arvo she immediately is tryign to light a fire to warm up Clem.
She leaves AJ in the care because she mistakenly believes that's the only way Clementine will listen to her and not follow Kenny, which is still caring about Clem.
She tries to end the conflict with Kenny and is visibly scare when he comes for her - suggesting that her plan all along is to kill Kenny would mean that the AJ plan didn't even make irrational sense.
Do you really think that Jane has no positive sides? Do you not think in a choice designed to be tricky, if you thi… [view original content]
From what Jane told Clem there was not really a choice on the matter. She couldn't throw her sister into the other roof and she was unable to convince her to jump, this left her two choices: keep trying to convince her sister to jump (and we all know that that'd result on them both being eaten by walkers) or leave her.
The entire point is that she DIDN'T leave her to die, because she cared about her so much, but finally realised that her sister didn't even … morewant to survive, and so to drag her around wasn't being compassionate.
I agree that Jane didn't leave her sister to die in an evil sense no, but the thing is, if it was my brother or sister, no matter what they say I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive. Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that he/she isn't thinking about how his/her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that.
Point is, i just couldn't do that to someone i love. Jane m… [view original content]
I guess so yes, it's a tough situation. What im saying is that if i loved someone, i'd die for them and if it meant me trying to save my sibling but ended up us both dying...well i guess that would be that but i would do everything in my power to try.
From what Jane told Clem there was not really a choice on the matter. She couldn't throw her sister into the other roof and she was unable t… moreo convince her to jump, this left her two choices: keep trying to convince her sister to jump (and we all know that that'd result on them both being eaten by walkers) or leave her.
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
if it was my brother or sister, no matter what they say I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive.
But that was exactly the point. There was definitely no way that Jaime would survive that situation. Jane literally couldn't throw her to the next rooftop, or carry her, or anything; it was just physically impossible. It was either: 1) Jaime dies and Jane does not or 2) Jaime and Jane both died. There was no other alternative. There was no way in which both of them could live; there was no way in which Jaime would've survived that situation at all. And again:
I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive.
You realize you're agreeing with what Jane did in this statement, don't you?
Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that he/she isn't thinking about how his/her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that.
So what you're saying is Jaime is the one who's being unfair to Jane, since Jane was the one who wanted Jaime to keep on fighting. You're likening Katjaa to Jaime, and you're likening Kenny to Jane. I.e., this is what you're saying:
"Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that Jaime isn't thinking about how her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive, Jane. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that."
Again, you realize you're agreeing with Jane here, right?
that's my opinion.
Listen, you really don't have to keep saying this. This is a discussion forum where we all state our opinions so yes, we know it's your opinion. No one has to keep saying that in every single post they make. If you similarly want to leave us alone to our opinions, then feel free to stop the conversation.
Without her actually saying "your coming with me like it or not", i'd say this was her way of kind of forcing Clementine to leave Kenny and go with her without her actually verbally saying it if you see what i mean. I just think that instead of what she did, she should have had a deep conversation with Clem about it at some point and asked her what she wanted to do and if she didn't want to leave Kenny she should have just left on her own if she didn't want to be around Kenny.
But the thing is, Jane did try to have a deep conversation with Clem about Kenny. Jane was trying her best to verbally convince Clementine to leave Kenny in the scene when she's sitting by the window, talking about her group in DC. Every time Jane says, "Look, I know Kenny's your friend," or "Look, I know you and Kenny are close," or:
I wanted to tell Jane she was mistaken; Kenny wasn't my friend; I'm not close to him and I don't think he's a nice guy. But there was no way I could correct her; there was no option for me to do so.
Additionally, at the end of that scene, when Jane says:
everyone's Clem just rudely cuts Jane off and runs outside when the truck starts:
My Clem, if I could really have played my Clem wouldn't have done that. I didn't want to see Kenny; I didn't want to rudely cut Jane off and leave her after she had just told me a story of someone she had known dying tragically. I mean really, how mean-spirited is that? I wanted to hear what she had to say. But the game literally didn't give me the option to. At that point after that "Look, Clem..." Jane would've tried her best to continue to verbally convince Clem to go with her, had Clementine stayed inside, which is what I wanted. If Jane had then and there made an adequate enough proposal (with something along the lines of keeping Kenny unharmed and safe and with supplies but away from me), I probably would have gone with her.
Now, Jane (as well as Kenny of course) definitely could have tried harder to find a non-violent solution to the problem. However there was no option for any character to actually ask Clementine where she wanted to go in a non-violent way, because the game clearly wanted to go the route of a big "climactic" action-y season finale. The problem was, my decision had already been made before the standoff even started.
this was her way of kind of forcing Clementine to leave Kenny and go with her without her
You realize as well that Kenny was ALREADY forcing everyone--including EVERYONE'S Clem, AJ, and Jane to look for Wellington, whether they all wanted to go there or not?
When they're driving in the truck, Kenny is already forcing everyone where he wants to go, already driving "for a few hours" in the frustratingly vague direction of "north" to find Wellington. I didn't want to go to Wellington. Kenny was ALREADY forcing me to go where I did not want to go. But no matter what I said, he did not listen to me. As I said before, he said this: "Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead fingers." The only time he stopped forcing his way on me was after I was forced to put a bullet in him.
The entire point is that she DIDN'T leave her to die, because she cared about her so much, but finally realised that her sister didn't even … morewant to survive, and so to drag her around wasn't being compassionate.
I agree that Jane didn't leave her sister to die in an evil sense no, but the thing is, if it was my brother or sister, no matter what they say I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive. Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that he/she isn't thinking about how his/her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that.
Point is, i just couldn't do that to someone i love. Jane m… [view original content]
I agree in the sense that fair enough she couldn't save her but my point is I would try to save my sibling and risk my life unless it was impossible like throwing him/her to the roof or whatever, something Jane obviously was unable to do so if i was in Jane's position and could not save my sibling then yes i agree and accept what she did but me being a man, could i have thrown my sibling to safety? I would try but who knows for sure? Anyway, am i not allowed to agree with Jane? Does that shock you, lol? Do you think just because i like Kenny that i hate or critiscise everything about Jane? No. Believe it or not I will give my honest view on something if i think Jane is right about something or not.
You don't need to point this out to me man (or lady I don't which sorry). And i am going to say "my opinion" at the end of my posts because otherwise some newbie or someone in general will critiscise me for what i post thinking i am stating a fact when i am not so I wish to constantly reiterate that to them. Sorry if that bothers you but please don't point it out because it will just cause an argument because you are being critical of what words i always use or repeat myself in my posts and i am entitled to do that if i wish. I am fully aware of it.
And no sialark i don't want to leave you guys alone to your opinions within the conversation because i like to see and discuss/debate whatever the topic is about. I in no way intend to sound like im attacking people just because i disagree on some things.
The deep convo you mentioned, yes fair enough, Jane could have been about to ask Clem to leave with her but the convo ended up with her talking about Kenny's state of my mind, it wasn't a convo about going to Howe's or leaving Kenny behind and it didn't get to that point before Clem ran outside but the point is, it never happened and we won't ever know for sure if that's what she was actually going to ask. You should be criticising the game/story for not giving us a scene where Jane asks "will you go with me" and state her reasons instead of her hinting at the type of person she thinks he is.
Please don't be so defensive of Jane! I never said that Kenny "didn't" force Clem, in fact i wasn't even talking about what Kenny was doing. Yes, he did force her, we all know that, you didn't need to point that out. I never said Jane was the only one forcing her but that her staged plan was in my opinion her way of forcing Clem by seeing what she saw Kenny could have been like when angered. Again this was the way the episode was made, for all of them to head in that direction. We should be criticising the fact we could not choose to not go there, taking a different route or something. Hell i didn't even agree with Kenny going to Wellington without knowing where it is!!! Believe it or not just because i like him doesn't mean i agree with him on everything but i'm not as much of a hateful person you appear to be towards him (no offence sorry).
May i ask you honestly now? Is there any slight thing you actually do like about Kenny? Is there seriously nothing at all good you can say? Like how would you compare Kenny to say Merle? Or Negan? The Governor? Is Kenny worse than them in your opinion?
Is there anything critical you can tell me about what you don't like about Jane if any? Because I stated some of the good things about Jane in another post and i have said some things i disagreed or didn't like about Kenny.
@dan290786
if it was my brother or sister, no matter what they say I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling w… moreas bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive.
But that was exactly the point. There was definitely no way that Jaime would survive that situation. Jane literally couldn't throw her to the next rooftop, or carry her, or anything; it was just physically impossible. It was either: 1) Jaime dies and Jane does not or 2) Jaime and Jane both died. There was no other alternative. There was no way in which both of them could live; there was no way in which Jaime would've survived that situation at all. And again:
I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive.
You realize you're agreeing with what Jane did in this statement, don't you?
Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason… [view original content]
I just need to say, I specifically love this gif:
That quick half-second hover over the "You can't walk away" option, then immediately choosing silence
"Should I try talking some sense into Kenn-nah fuck that"
That's not fair Dan, you and I may disagree a fuck ton when it comes to Kenny. Yet we've spoken a couple times about many faceted topics throughout both seasons and have found common ground on several.
Separating yourself and the "haters" is a somewhat ignorant approach that leaves little in the way of expository reasoning. It'd be like me saying "You Kenny lovers are all the same!" It's not fair to the voices that may have more depth to their opinions. I, personally, don't. I do hate Kenny as a character and do think he's a sloppily written factitious anti-hero with no substance who robbed season two of much potential and greatness... That's my opinion and all I can do is present it to others. If they want to take that and change their perspective, fine. If not, then I'd at least hope they'd hold their tongue on the accusations and ignorant terminology.
Sometimes, I do enjoy posting slightly baiting posts to gauge a reaction, admittedly. But, again, never have I stated the entire fanbase is shallow or just doesn't "get it."
My point is, it's filled with the haters, hardly any pro Kenny on here anymore. A lot on Youtube and places like that though. Honestly somet… moreimes i wish any Kenny topics would get banned because we all always end up arguing. Who'd have thought Telltale could create such split down the middle type character?
I liked Kenny and Jane and I was hoping Kenny Jane and Clem would stay all together. But I had to choose Kenny because of all he's done for Clem and how he also has a connection with lee and Christa. Jane just seemed like another Molly to me. I was hoping it would come down Kenny vs Luke instead and Jane staying gone until season 3.
Well sorry man thats just how i feel sometimes. When i state opinions and then half a dozen people reply disagreeing and some telling me or implying that i'm wrong, it just feels like i'm ganged up on. I'm not intending on causing offence and perhaps using the word "haters" is strong but again I don't mean to annoy people
That's not fair Dan, you and I may disagree a fuck ton when it comes to Kenny. Yet we've spoken a couple times about many faceted topics thr… moreoughout both seasons and have found common ground on several.
Separating yourself and the "haters" is a somewhat ignorant approach that leaves little in the way of expository reasoning. It'd be like me saying "You Kenny lovers are all the same!" It's not fair to the voices that may have more depth to their opinions. I, personally, don't. I do hate Kenny as a character and do think he's a sloppily written factitious anti-hero with no substance who robbed season two of much potential and greatness... That's my opinion and all I can do is present it to others. If they want to take that and change their perspective, fine. If not, then I'd at least hope they'd hold their tongue on the accusations and ignorant terminology.
Sometimes, I do enjoy posting slightly baiting posts to gauge a reaction, admittedl… [view original content]
The term "critics" is better I think. Someone called me out for using these type of terms as well in this thread. When I use it I don't really mean it as an insult or anything but just an observation that there is a group that clearly passionately "hate" (for lack of a better term) him and are fine with repeating how much they hate him on a lot of threads. I mean i'm not exactly a big Larry fan and have expressed that on more than one occasion (probably not as much as the Kenny critics though) so i'm perfectly fine with anyone calling me a Larry hater/critic. I won't feel insulted or offended if it happened.
@Everyone'sClemInTime
Well sorry man thats just how i feel sometimes. When i state opinions and then half a dozen people reply disagreein… moreg and some telling me or implying that i'm wrong, it just feels like i'm ganged up on. I'm not intending on causing offence and perhaps using the word "haters" is strong but again I don't mean to annoy people
I liked Kenny and Jane and I was hoping Kenny Jane and Clem would stay all together. But I had to choose Kenny because of all he's done for … moreClem and how he also has a connection with lee and Christa. Jane just seemed like another Molly to me. I was hoping it would come down Kenny vs Luke instead and Jane staying gone until season 3.
I liked Kenny and Jane and I was hoping Kenny Jane and Clem would stay all together. But I had to choose Kenny because of all he's done for … moreClem and how he also has a connection with lee and Christa. Jane just seemed like another Molly to me. I was hoping it would come down Kenny vs Luke instead and Jane staying gone until season 3.
@Everyone'sClemInTime
Well sorry man thats just how i feel sometimes. When i state opinions and then half a dozen people reply disagreein… moreg and some telling me or implying that i'm wrong, it just feels like i'm ganged up on. I'm not intending on causing offence and perhaps using the word "haters" is strong but again I don't mean to annoy people
As far as I'm concerned none of it would have happened if Telltale actually gave us opportunities to express dislike of Kenny as Clementine - as it is Jane did it because she thought it was the only way we'd be convinced. I would have gone if she'd asked.
Didn't he and Christa basically hate each other? And Lee determinantly of course.
i dont think they ever hated each other. Christa clearly disproves of much of what he does, and Kenny is...well Kenny but neither seems to hate the other. Dislike maybe, but again thats a stretch by the end of the game
Oh and Lee and Kenny are clearly intended to be friends by the end of season 1, particularly after that attic scene. Everything about the dialogue appears to suggest that in episode 5. Its just like clementine in season 2 though albeit not as bad. The worst Lee can be by the end is a sort of friendly grumpy towards Kenny, even though Kenny basically suggests killing him minutes earlier.
Didn't he and Christa basically hate each other? And Lee determinantly of course.
i dont think they ever hated each other. Christa c… morelearly disproves of much of what he does, and Kenny is...well Kenny but neither seems to hate the other. Dislike maybe, but again thats a stretch by the end of the game
Oh and Lee and Kenny are clearly intended to be friends by the end of season 1, particularly after that attic scene. Everything about the dialogue appears to suggest that in episode 5. Its just like clementine in season 2 though albeit not as bad. The worst Lee can be by the end is a sort of friendly grumpy towards Kenny, even though Kenny basically suggests killing him minutes earlier.
Comments
well i live in a family of 4 others siblings and so im more the hurt others who try to hurt what i have. so thats kinda why im more with kenny xD he hurts others who try to hurt whats left of what he has. i mean the cunt did lose an eye so clementine wouldnt be hurt. and besides you and lee did the zombie guts thing, so chances were clementine wouldve thought of that anyway. i wanted a character that clementine could rely on. jane was too lone wolf and left when things got tough and kenny is too unstable. so thats why i liked the ending where i went with kenny to wellington and left clementine and AJ there while kenny went his own way. as unstable as kenny gets you cant hate him.
she didnt have to get too close she just didnt have to run off when things got tough xD
yeah what the fuck? jane "im sorry clementine" clementine "grrrrr" kenny "im sorry clementine" clementine shoots him in the fucking head xD
yeah we should just stop getting angry at each other for picking the other side xD it was our choice and thats what makes telltale games so good. you can make your own choices.
skilled survivor. yes. cares about people. no (leaves sister to die, leaves group when they got in trouble, leaves aj in a car in the middle of a blizzard filled with zombies, tries to kill kenny, doesnt give a shit when she lets clementine shoot kenny), approaches things with a sensible mindset. yes and no. leaving the baby in the car and says she gets the baby killed so kenny gets angry was not her finest idea xD stand up when she sees injustice. only stood up for "injustice" when she saw a russian guy she had a crush on get beat up xD and even then the guy took off with 2 other people and has clementine shot. saved clementine's life. i dont know mightve missed a part where she was saved. saved kenny's life. nope she tries to kill him instead. helped the group escape from carver. well if your talking about zombie guts chances are clementine wouldve mentioned that anyway. as for the last part i dont really know what you mean. if you mean edgy then yeah sure xD
I played season one, I believe, three times. Once, I was able to talk him down, another, he fought me, so I pobably told him "Ill fight you before I let you go on like this." Something to that effect. I didnt know up until that point how irrationally violent he could be. He wasnt physically attacking Lee before then. Mostly he was using his sharp tongue. I thought he could be reasoned with until the train scene. Thats when he started becoming "a guy like Kenny" to me. I get that he went through a huge trauma that would destroy most people but I still didnt want my Lee and Clem to be around him when he inevitably cracked. Thats why that dialogue option to say Clem and Lee were going to go off on their own appealed to me. Not that it mattered in the end.
I like kenny
Well, what do you mean by understand the series exactly? Everyone understands it in a different way - different perspectives, so yeah, I think I can say that people can understand the series without appreciating main characters, I for one have always been a fan of more minor characters, thus appreciating major ones less, doesn't mean I don't understand the series, especially since there's no specific thing I need to understand to get the full experience. Well that may be your opinion but it's a fact that some people like Omid and Luke better, doesn't mean Kenny is bad character however, it just means people like a character or find them more interesting than another character, all 3 are major characters that push the story forward after all. I wouldn't call people 'Kenny Critics' just cause they dislike Kenny, even if it is the majority, people should be able to share their opinion without being labelled as 'haters' or 'critics' or 'lovers' etc.
Did you even pay attention to the sister story?
The entire point is that she DIDN'T leave her to die, because she cared about her so much, but finally realised that her sister didn't even want to survive, and so to drag her around wasn't being compassionate.
Caring about someone isn't forcing them to do something they don't want to.
She saved Kenny and Clem's life, and when Kenny is beating Arvo she immediately is tryign to light a fire to warm up Clem.
She leaves AJ in the care because she mistakenly believes that's the only way Clementine will listen to her and not follow Kenny, which is still caring about Clem.
She tries to end the conflict with Kenny and is visibly scare when he comes for her - suggesting that her plan all along is to kill Kenny would mean that the AJ plan didn't even make irrational sense.
Do you really think that Jane has no positive sides? Do you not think in a choice designed to be tricky, if you think there is absolutely nothing good vis a vis clementine in her character? Do you not think that simply shows pure bias?
Are you being obtuse on purpose? She does save Kenny#'s life at the beginning of the episode, whether that supports your bias or not.
I think allot of the reason for these Kenny and Jane arguments are due to these kinds of posts which are pretty much flame-bait. :x
Drop and Roll.
So basically what you're saying is
you thought, "Kenny was a good leader..."
"...except no he wasn't."
Lol but no, I'm just playin'. I also agree he was not a good leader.
I agree that Jane didn't leave her sister to die in an evil sense no, but the thing is, if it was my brother or sister, no matter what they say I wouldn't give up on them or let them give up. Unless my sibling was bitten or there was definitely no way he/she would survive. Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that he/she isn't thinking about how his/her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that.
Point is, i just couldn't do that to someone i love. Jane may have had her reasons but I certainly wouldn't do what she did and that's my opinion.
Without her actually saying "your coming with me like it or not", i'd say this was her way of kind of forcing Clementine to leave Kenny and go with her without her actually verbally saying it if you see what i mean. I just think that instead of what she did, she should have had a deep conversation with Clem about it at some point and asked her what she wanted to do and if Clem didn't want to leave Kenny then Jane should have just left on her own if she didn't want to be around Kenny.
From what Jane told Clem there was not really a choice on the matter. She couldn't throw her sister into the other roof and she was unable to convince her to jump, this left her two choices: keep trying to convince her sister to jump (and we all know that that'd result on them both being eaten by walkers) or leave her.
I like Season 2 also.
She was ok in 400 Days and a bitch in Season 2.
Nailed it.
I guess so yes, it's a tough situation. What im saying is that if i loved someone, i'd die for them and if it meant me trying to save my sibling but ended up us both dying...well i guess that would be that but i would do everything in my power to try.
People hate Kenny because he is from florida.
And crazy shit comes out of his mouth sometimes , he can't help it.
I just need to say, I specifically love this gif:
That quick half-second hover over the "You can't walk away" option, then immediately choosing silence
"Should I try talking some sense into Kenn-nah fuck that"
@dan290786
But that was exactly the point. There was definitely no way that Jaime would survive that situation. Jane literally couldn't throw her to the next rooftop, or carry her, or anything; it was just physically impossible. It was either: 1) Jaime dies and Jane does not or 2) Jaime and Jane both died. There was no other alternative. There was no way in which both of them could live; there was no way in which Jaime would've survived that situation at all. And again:
You realize you're agreeing with what Jane did in this statement, don't you?
So what you're saying is Jaime is the one who's being unfair to Jane, since Jane was the one who wanted Jaime to keep on fighting. You're likening Katjaa to Jaime, and you're likening Kenny to Jane. I.e., this is what you're saying:
"Wanting to be left to die without a really good reason isn't fair on the one that wants to help you to keep on fighting. The way i see it is that Jaime isn't thinking about how her death would affect the one trying to keep the hope alive, Jane. It's like Katjaa killing herself. She left Kenny and as much as i hate to say it, that was selfish, and i loved Katjaa and i just wish she hadn't done that."
Again, you realize you're agreeing with Jane here, right?
Listen, you really don't have to keep saying this. This is a discussion forum where we all state our opinions so yes, we know it's your opinion. No one has to keep saying that in every single post they make. If you similarly want to leave us alone to our opinions, then feel free to stop the conversation.
But the thing is, Jane did try to have a deep conversation with Clem about Kenny. Jane was trying her best to verbally convince Clementine to leave Kenny in the scene when she's sitting by the window, talking about her group in DC. Every time Jane says, "Look, I know Kenny's your friend," or "Look, I know you and Kenny are close," or:
I wanted to tell Jane she was mistaken; Kenny wasn't my friend; I'm not close to him and I don't think he's a nice guy. But there was no way I could correct her; there was no option for me to do so.
Additionally, at the end of that scene, when Jane says:
everyone's Clem just rudely cuts Jane off and runs outside when the truck starts:
My Clem, if I could really have played my Clem wouldn't have done that. I didn't want to see Kenny; I didn't want to rudely cut Jane off and leave her after she had just told me a story of someone she had known dying tragically. I mean really, how mean-spirited is that? I wanted to hear what she had to say. But the game literally didn't give me the option to. At that point after that "Look, Clem..." Jane would've tried her best to continue to verbally convince Clem to go with her, had Clementine stayed inside, which is what I wanted. If Jane had then and there made an adequate enough proposal (with something along the lines of keeping Kenny unharmed and safe and with supplies but away from me), I probably would have gone with her.
Now, Jane (as well as Kenny of course) definitely could have tried harder to find a non-violent solution to the problem. However there was no option for any character to actually ask Clementine where she wanted to go in a non-violent way, because the game clearly wanted to go the route of a big "climactic" action-y season finale. The problem was, my decision had already been made before the standoff even started.
You realize as well that Kenny was ALREADY forcing everyone--including EVERYONE'S Clem, AJ, and Jane to look for Wellington, whether they all wanted to go there or not?
When they're driving in the truck, Kenny is already forcing everyone where he wants to go, already driving "for a few hours" in the frustratingly vague direction of "north" to find Wellington. I didn't want to go to Wellington. Kenny was ALREADY forcing me to go where I did not want to go. But no matter what I said, he did not listen to me. As I said before, he said this: "Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead fingers." The only time he stopped forcing his way on me was after I was forced to put a bullet in him.
I agree in the sense that fair enough she couldn't save her but my point is I would try to save my sibling and risk my life unless it was impossible like throwing him/her to the roof or whatever, something Jane obviously was unable to do so if i was in Jane's position and could not save my sibling then yes i agree and accept what she did but me being a man, could i have thrown my sibling to safety? I would try but who knows for sure? Anyway, am i not allowed to agree with Jane? Does that shock you, lol? Do you think just because i like Kenny that i hate or critiscise everything about Jane? No. Believe it or not I will give my honest view on something if i think Jane is right about something or not.
You don't need to point this out to me man (or lady I don't which sorry). And i am going to say "my opinion" at the end of my posts because otherwise some newbie or someone in general will critiscise me for what i post thinking i am stating a fact when i am not so I wish to constantly reiterate that to them. Sorry if that bothers you but please don't point it out because it will just cause an argument because you are being critical of what words i always use or repeat myself in my posts and i am entitled to do that if i wish. I am fully aware of it.
And no sialark i don't want to leave you guys alone to your opinions within the conversation because i like to see and discuss/debate whatever the topic is about. I in no way intend to sound like im attacking people just because i disagree on some things.
The deep convo you mentioned, yes fair enough, Jane could have been about to ask Clem to leave with her but the convo ended up with her talking about Kenny's state of my mind, it wasn't a convo about going to Howe's or leaving Kenny behind and it didn't get to that point before Clem ran outside but the point is, it never happened and we won't ever know for sure if that's what she was actually going to ask. You should be criticising the game/story for not giving us a scene where Jane asks "will you go with me" and state her reasons instead of her hinting at the type of person she thinks he is.
Please don't be so defensive of Jane! I never said that Kenny "didn't" force Clem, in fact i wasn't even talking about what Kenny was doing. Yes, he did force her, we all know that, you didn't need to point that out. I never said Jane was the only one forcing her but that her staged plan was in my opinion her way of forcing Clem by seeing what she saw Kenny could have been like when angered. Again this was the way the episode was made, for all of them to head in that direction. We should be criticising the fact we could not choose to not go there, taking a different route or something. Hell i didn't even agree with Kenny going to Wellington without knowing where it is!!! Believe it or not just because i like him doesn't mean i agree with him on everything but i'm not as much of a hateful person you appear to be towards him (no offence sorry).
May i ask you honestly now? Is there any slight thing you actually do like about Kenny? Is there seriously nothing at all good you can say? Like how would you compare Kenny to say Merle? Or Negan? The Governor? Is Kenny worse than them in your opinion?
Is there anything critical you can tell me about what you don't like about Jane if any? Because I stated some of the good things about Jane in another post and i have said some things i disagreed or didn't like about Kenny.
Hope to hear your reply because i'd love to know.
sigh
That's not fair Dan, you and I may disagree a fuck ton when it comes to Kenny. Yet we've spoken a couple times about many faceted topics throughout both seasons and have found common ground on several.
Separating yourself and the "haters" is a somewhat ignorant approach that leaves little in the way of expository reasoning. It'd be like me saying "You Kenny lovers are all the same!" It's not fair to the voices that may have more depth to their opinions. I, personally, don't. I do hate Kenny as a character and do think he's a sloppily written factitious anti-hero with no substance who robbed season two of much potential and greatness... That's my opinion and all I can do is present it to others. If they want to take that and change their perspective, fine. If not, then I'd at least hope they'd hold their tongue on the accusations and ignorant terminology.
Sometimes, I do enjoy posting slightly baiting posts to gauge a reaction, admittedly. But, again, never have I stated the entire fanbase is shallow or just doesn't "get it."
I liked Kenny and Jane and I was hoping Kenny Jane and Clem would stay all together. But I had to choose Kenny because of all he's done for Clem and how he also has a connection with lee and Christa. Jane just seemed like another Molly to me. I was hoping it would come down Kenny vs Luke instead and Jane staying gone until season 3.
@Everyone'sClemInTime
Well sorry man thats just how i feel sometimes. When i state opinions and then half a dozen people reply disagreeing and some telling me or implying that i'm wrong, it just feels like i'm ganged up on. I'm not intending on causing offence and perhaps using the word "haters" is strong but again I don't mean to annoy people
The term "critics" is better I think. Someone called me out for using these type of terms as well in this thread. When I use it I don't really mean it as an insult or anything but just an observation that there is a group that clearly passionately "hate" (for lack of a better term) him and are fine with repeating how much they hate him on a lot of threads. I mean i'm not exactly a big Larry fan and have expressed that on more than one occasion (probably not as much as the Kenny critics though) so i'm perfectly fine with anyone calling me a Larry hater/critic. I won't feel insulted or offended if it happened.
Didn't he and Christa basically hate each other? And Lee determinantly of course.
They were clearly at odds at first but things are a lot better between them in EP5.
This lol. Jane Kenny and Clem together would've been great at the end. But Jane fucked up so hard. Did she really had to test Kenny? So dumb.
To be fair Kenny didn't need to attack Jane...
Understandable. It can be difficult to voice an opinion that seems greatly outmatched.
Just keep doing it though, it'll pay off sooner or later.
They barely interact in episode 5 though, not sure we can say things get 'a lot better'.
As far as I'm concerned none of it would have happened if Telltale actually gave us opportunities to express dislike of Kenny as Clementine - as it is Jane did it because she thought it was the only way we'd be convinced. I would have gone if she'd asked.
i dont think they ever hated each other. Christa clearly disproves of much of what he does, and Kenny is...well Kenny but neither seems to hate the other. Dislike maybe, but again thats a stretch by the end of the game
Oh and Lee and Kenny are clearly intended to be friends by the end of season 1, particularly after that attic scene. Everything about the dialogue appears to suggest that in episode 5. Its just like clementine in season 2 though albeit not as bad. The worst Lee can be by the end is a sort of friendly grumpy towards Kenny, even though Kenny basically suggests killing him minutes earlier.
Is it just me or does Clementine looks like Jhené Aiko
Wasnt most of the beef between Kenny and Christa because he wanted to leave Omid after he got hurt?
Initially, but they argued constantly. I think it's because there both used to their partners being pushovers