Kenny, Christa and Lee all had a heart to heart moment in the mansion's attic where pretty much all of the animosity dissipates; at least up until Kenny's sacrifice. And said sacrifice is determinately for the sake of Christa should Ben no longer be around. So at the very least they made peace with each other right before Kenny "dies".
I shall do lol. There are more anti Kenny fans here nowadays than pro Kenny as i have said before but this is the best site ive been on for discussions on this game, most people are quite calm and decent so i'll still continue to post here
When I look at it in retrospective, it always amuses me how he has argued/fought with almost everyone on the group. This post is not meant to demonize Kenny's character in any way.
You like to think you're the leader of this little group, but we can make our own goddamn decisions. This isn't your own personal dictatorship!
Kenny and Lilly have a very tense relationship with one another, as they don't agree in how to run the Travelier Motel group. He dismisses her role as leader of the group, and advocates to leave her on the road at night after she murdered Carley out of paranoia or mistakenly shot Doug.
I'm gonna kill him, Kat!
Kenny showed his hatred toward Larry after the latter argued to throw Duck out of the Everrett Pharmacy, going to the extent of punching him. The two continue to frequently argue during "Starved For Help".
Can it, Carley.
Cool it, Doug.
Kenny dismisses both Carley and Doug during the argument that takes place at the start of "Long Road Ahead".
You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead! My wife and child, you got them both fucking killed!
After Ben confesses to have been giving medicine to the Save-Lots bandits, Kenny deduces that Katjaa and Duck died because of him, and his initial reaction is to kill him, persuading Lee to let him die and swearing at Ben for the rest of "Around Every Corner" and "No Time Left" (determinant).
This ain't shit.
Tension arose between Kenny and Chuck after a heated argument about the group and how much it is capable to do regarding the oil tanker blocking the train's way.
Lady, I've known you for all of twelve hours — you don't get to say 'we', unless you're talking about just you and him.
You're every man for themselves until you and your boyfriend actually needed something!
When Christa and Kenng meet, Kenny sees her and Omid as "excess baggage" and insists that the two of them are slowing down him and the rest of the group. Because of this, Christa doesn't care much for him and vice versa. In "Around Every Corner", Kenny seems open to leaving Omid behind if the infection in his leg worsens, concentrated only on finding a boat. In "No Time Left", Kenny argues and acusses Omid and Christa of being selfish in their motives, and only caring about each other rather than the whole group.
I don't know why you trusted that girl with it. We hardly know her. (…) Hmph. Yeah, but what has she done for me lately?
When they first met, Kenny tried to come at her with a gun, despite Lee telling him otherwise. Later when she revealed that she was the one who rang bells in Savannah, Kenny acusses her of deliberately trying to get them killed even though she had no idea who they were. After Molly ditches Les in Crawford while still having the battery, Kenny thinks that she abandoned them and remarks that they hardly know her. Lee approaches him and reminds him that she saved his life earlier that day, and he replies asking him what has she done for him lately.
I'll make the bastard wish the cancer had got him.
Kenny always seemed distrustful over Vernon and acted uneasy whenever having a conversation with him. He was eager to blame him for kidnapping Clementine, and questioned why he wanted to bring Brie to Crawford, as she would just slow them down.
Clem, go on inside and get to bed. Walt and I gotta talk for a second.
Kenny was annoyed by Walter freely giving Bonnie a large amount of food, and presumably berated him.
Really? Luke? Of all the childish bullshit! (…) This baby, he's what matters now. So get your shit together.
Luke and Kenny are shown to have a very tense relationship in which both display much cynicism about the intentions of one another. In "Amid The Ruins", their relationship becomes more hostile than ever before; when Clementine/Mike caught him having sex with Jane, Kenny yells at him, telling him that he is being reckless. Their disputes continue, as after Rebecca gives birth, Luke and Kenny argue about whether they should leave tomorrow or after a few days later to give Rebecca some time to recover. Luke and Kenny will argue once again on their way north.
I don't know what your deal is, but you're more than welcome to take off in the morning!
Kenny and Nick are shown to have a slightly tense relationship in which both display a little cynicism about the intentions of one another. This can be shown when Kenng glares at Nick when they first come into the lodge. With an angry expression, he also gets into an argument and calls Nick after an American rapper, Vanilla Ice. Despite this, Nick respects Kenny to some extent, and feels sorry for him when he learns that Kenny lost his family. After being captured by Carver, he still doesn't get along with Nick, referring to Nick as a "kid".
Shut up, doc! This ain't your call!
While being transported to Carver's camp, Carlos expresses displeasure towards Kenny's reckless attitude, explaining that his ill-considered actions could have dangerous consequences in the future. Kenny disregards Carlos' arguments, telling him that it's not his decision to make.
You're real difficult to deal with, sometimes!
While being transported back to Carver's camp, Rebecca reassures Kenny that Luke is on his way to help them, to which Kenny responds that he is long gone, and states that the cabin group is only being brought back to where they live. Rebecca will become angry toward Kenny, blaming his actions for the death of his husband (determinant), as well as Walter's. While discussing their plans to escape the Howe's Hardware store, the two constantly disagree with each other, with Kenny saying that she is hard to deal with, and Rebecca saying that he isn't a peach, either.
Man, fuck that guy. I don't think we can trust him. Clearly he's already drank too much of the kool-aid.
Kenny is very hostile to Reggie after hearing what Reggie thought of Carver, not trusting him and thinking that he is a "weirdo", even though Reggie attempted to be friendly toward Kenny at their first meeting.
I ain't nobody's laborer. Fuck that! Let them do this shit themselves if it's so goddamn important!
Kenny and Mike initially disliked each other, and Kenny pins him against a fortified window while working on the expansion, causing the window to break and luring walkers inside Howe's Hardware recently cleared area. During "No Going Back", their relationship begins to deteriorate. They are seen arguing in the background after the firefight, but Jane quickly approaches them and breaks it off. Later, Kenny disregards Mike's opinion about where they should drive.
I don't give two shits what you people think. I got this truck working, so I say where we go. And where headed fuckin' north.
In "No Going Back", Bonnie will tell Kenny to stop overreacting from the gunfight against the Russian group. While the group is in the forest, Bonnie will mention that she offered to re-bandage Kenny's eye wound but he refused, suggesting that he does not trust her enough to do so. Once Kenny gets the Russian group's truck started, she will appear to agree with Mike and Jane that they should head south, but Kenny disregards her opinion.
Nobody cares about you. And you don't care about nobody but yourself. That makes you nothin'!
After expressing different feelings about the manner in which Kenny is treating Arvo, Kenny and Jane start showing feelings of hatred toward one another. Kenny also feels that Jane is not trustworthy and cannot be left alone with Alvin Junior, despite her coming back and saving his life. While in the Russian group's truck, the two heatedly dispute about where to go. The argument quickly turns personal, both making jives about previous decisions and losses. Once the car stops in from of other disowned cars it seems like Jane was about to apologize to Kenny but he leaves before she can. When they reunite at the pitstop, Jane appears to have lost A.J. due to the harsh blizzard, and Kenny runs off to look for the baby before she can explain what happened. After he comes back, he charges at Jane and pins her against a window, assuming that she left A.J. to die, and starts a fight that will end with him stabbing Jane in the chest or Clementine shooting him on the stomach to prevent the killing.
This is. STILL. GOING!!? JESUS Christ. 2 years ago it was cancerous, now it's like I'm getting Vietnam flashbacks.
Ok why don't we all agree that season 2 sucked when it came to character development. I mean ALL of the arguments are invalid when you see how much of the development just, crumbles down. Like Jane forcing you to go to the drivers seat (AND THE GAME FORCES YOU) and drive a f@cking truck in a middle of a f@cking blizzard. Kenny having a dying Sarita on his lap and stocking her hair so creepily, while you are talking to him (FORCEFULLY again) and him looking like a f James Bond villain. (also his gf being dead has a larger impact on his living than his WIFE and KID. So stupid.)
The writing sucked, and every characters task, their purphose in this game, was just so stupid and meaningless... just a road to nowhere...
This is. STILL. GOING!!? JESUS Christ. 2 years ago it was cancerous, now it's like I'm getting Vietnam flashbacks.
Ok why don't we all ag… moreree that season 2 sucked when it came to character development. I mean ALL of the arguments are invalid when you see how much of the development just, crumbles down. Like Jane forcing you to go to the drivers seat (AND THE GAME FORCES YOU) and drive a f@cking truck in a middle of a f@cking blizzard. Kenny having a dying Sarita on his lap and stocking her hair so creepily, while you are talking to him (FORCEFULLY again) and him looking like a f James Bond villain. (also his gf being dead has a larger impact on his living than his WIFE and KID. So stupid.)
The writing sucked, and every characters task, their purphose in this game, was just so stupid and meaningless... just a road to nowhere...
This is. STILL. GOING!!? JESUS Christ. 2 years ago it was cancerous, now it's like I'm getting Vietnam flashbacks.
Ok why don't we all ag… moreree that season 2 sucked when it came to character development. I mean ALL of the arguments are invalid when you see how much of the development just, crumbles down. Like Jane forcing you to go to the drivers seat (AND THE GAME FORCES YOU) and drive a f@cking truck in a middle of a f@cking blizzard. Kenny having a dying Sarita on his lap and stocking her hair so creepily, while you are talking to him (FORCEFULLY again) and him looking like a f James Bond villain. (also his gf being dead has a larger impact on his living than his WIFE and KID. So stupid.)
The writing sucked, and every characters task, their purphose in this game, was just so stupid and meaningless... just a road to nowhere...
someone can't really get the full experience or really understand the series if they don't appreciate Kenny's character.
This is borderline insulting, you realize?
If you're implying that people who simply have a different opinion of a character than you understand the series less than you, then frankly you're being unnecessarily rude.
Kenny critics/haters/whatever you want to call us understand his character--and we understand the season--perfectly fine. We've witnessed every one of his actions from the very beginning of the series, and personally I've judged him on every single action he makes in every single playthrough, not just one. I thought he was an interesting enough character in Season 1, and I believe his arc wrapped up nicely at the end of it. However bringing him back for Season 2 was just the biggest mistake of the season.
You can think he's an "interesting" character if you want, but frankly to me, "interesting" isn't the word I would use. He's more like a fog horn that won't stop going off--something loud, keeping your attention whether you want it to or not, and simply annoying you--the whole time you're just trying to find the "off" button so you can get other things done, but he's drowning you out the whole time and making that incredibly difficult.
Nevertheless, I can see why people would choose to go with him. I can see why people would have some sort of loyalty to him. They feel some sort of brotherhood or camaraderie towards him. It's just that I simply do not feel this way in the slightest.
Well my opinion is that someone can't really get the full experience or really understand the series if they don't appreciate Kenny's charac… moreter. For me, it's not too different to if someone hated Lee and just repeated his bad qualities or things he/she hated about the character over and over and thought Luke or Omid were better characters. Can you really say that person got the full experience, or even understood the series? Kenny, like Lee is just too much of a driving force in the series to ever be worse than Luke or Omid. The Kenny critics are the dominant opinion right now from what i'm seeing.
EVERYONE has their own opinions and you making all these screenshots trying to prove that those opposed to you are wrong and we are not.
Excuse me, but I'm going to back up my argument with actual canon scenes from the game if I find that it will help my argument. I'm just presenting my opinion and backing it up with scenes that actually happened in the game. Never did I say that I was right and you are wrong. Don't put words in my mouth please; I really don't appreciate it.
You damn well know that, didn't choose to screenshot the other choices?
As I said before, I chose to screenshot this particular scene because it portrays how irrational and stubborn Kenny is. Even when he's confronted with every person in the group disagreeing with him, even when he's confronted with a vote where he's the only one dissenting, he runs away from the argument like an angry toddler. He doesn't try to negotiate; he doesn't try to find a solution. He doesn't care to hear what anybody else thinks, and that's a problem.
In addition I chose to screenshot this particular scene because I felt it was a scene that I've never seen people even mention or take note of anywhere on these forums, and I felt it deserved more attention. If you however do find a post discussing it, please by all means link me.
It doesn't matter anyway because in the end it's the same outcome whatever vhoice is said and you know that.
That's exactly my point. It's the same outcome whatever choice is said--no matter what, Kenny will always end the argument without hearing a word of what other people's proposed plans are. I'm trying to show that I was hoping it would be different--I was hoping that, if Kenny was confronted with a vote at least, that he would actually realize that maybe there are other ideas that he could consider. But that was not the case, and thus it was extra disappointing to see.
Sorry but nothing you say will change the opinion of others
This is false. I have actually publicly successfully changed the opinion of at least one forum user on their opinion of Jane in the distant past.
So I have been able to sway people's opinions before and I don't see why I can't do it again.
you point out things that you think are true, it is how you see things and not a fact.
I've swayed people by using my opinions, as well as by pointing out actual things that happened in the game. I never claimed that my opinions were fact.
When Kenny alienates himself in Ep4 and you talk about his violent behaviour. The man just lost another "Katjaa", of course he was going to be angry, it really is no wonder though. I wouldn't be calm about it but i didn't like how he spoke to Clem and blamed her for it, however, i knew he didn't mean it and Clem can even say this to him in Ep 5.
You're missing the entire point. Everything you just said above has nothing to do with the argument. Kenny4President2016 was trying to claim that Jane was completely responsible for breaking up the entire group; I showed that before Jane ever speaks one word about Kenny to Clementine in the game, before she ever even mentions him once, Mike and Bonnie beat her to it, telling Clem how Kenny's violent outbursts were scaring them, showing that before Jane had anything to do with it, Mike and Bonnie were already wary and fearful of Kenny. They already knew that Kenny had just lost Sarita; they were sympathizing with him; e.g. Bonnie says, "I know he didn't mean it," but she continues on with, "but it was scary." Even though they realize he's going through a hard time, they're still afraid of him and mistrustful of him.
she decided to do the good things in front of Clem because of guilt or to show Clem she's a good person. What if she was alone? Im pretty sure on her own she would rob Arvo, definitely abandon Sarah and I don't think she would let the family in because she's a loner at heart.
As you love to point out, that's your opinion and my opinion is that Jane was doing these good deeds because she had a change of heart. Especially when she's arguing with Clem in the woods, and this is what can happen:
When Jane argues it's better to be alone, Clem can say, "There's nobody to watch your back. And when something does happen, there's nobody there to help you."
And then when Jane's at the picnic table, this is what she says:
Jane follows up, saying, "Well, it's sometimes good to have someone watching your back," echoing what Clementine said before, and showing that Jane clearly appreciates Clementine's company.
Listen, EVERYONE has their own opinions and you making all these screenshots trying to prove that those opposed to you are wrong and we are … morenot. You aren't wrong either because....here it comes....it's an "opinion" and there is no right or wrong. Clem doesn't have to agree about going down south like in your screenshot, she can agree with Kenny. You damn well know that, didn't choose to screenshot the other choices? It doesn't matter anyway because in the end it's the same outcome whatever vhoice is said and you know that.
Sorry but nothing you say will change the opinion of others because you point out things that you think are true, it is how you see things and not a fact. I know Kenny comes across as irrational when he is worried as proven in the truck on the way to Howes and yes he doesn't always think things through. If the user Kenny4President2016 wants to think he's a good leader then let him/her but even I wouldn't want him as a le… [view original content]
First off, there are a few things you have to understand.
1) When people reply to you and they disagree with you, they're not necessarily "attacking" you. I am certainly not attacking you. When you reply to many different people who disagree with you, they will more than likely respond, explaining why they disagree with you. It may be overwhelming to have them all reply to you at once and you might feel like you're being "ganged up on" or "attacked" because of the sheer number of disagreeing replies you get, but what exactly did you expect when you commented to so many people disagreeing with you in the first place? Not to mention by your definition you're "attacking" us as well when obviously that's not the case on either side.
2) Nearly everything everyone says on these forums is an opinion. I feel there's no real need to keep repeating this statement over and over and over again; otherwise it just becomes redundant and frankly, annoying. If you really wish to continue stating so then fine, I can't stop you.
Now that we got that cleared out of the way, let's move on.
Anyway, am i not allowed to agree with Jane? Does that shock you, lol? Do you think just because i like Kenny that i hate or critiscise everything about Jane? No. Believe it or not I will give my honest view on something if i think Jane is right about something or not.
This doesn't shock me. I'm merely pointing out that you're contradicting yourself when in one comment you say:
Jane may have had her reasons but I certainly wouldn't do what she did
and then in the next comment you say:
if i was in Jane's position and could not save my sibling then yes i agree and accept what she did
and because of that your argument is very flimsy.
You should be criticising the game/story for not giving us a scene where Jane asks "will you go with me" and state her reasons
We should be criticising the fact we could not choose to not go there, taking a different route or something.
Lololol, but I am criticizing it! I criticize the game/story/writing all the time lol.
Is there any slight thing you actually do like about Kenny? Is there seriously nothing at all good you can say?
Ugh. The problem is that Kenny's supposed "best" qualities are also his worst qualities too. He stands by people and cares for them...but only if those people are "with him," and the problem is that any tiny thing could make you not "with him" anymore. For the people he cares about, he does his best to keep them safe...except his foolish ideas get his loved ones into more trouble than anything. You could say it's good he's determined and persistent and stands by his ideas...but then he stubbornly doesn't listen to what anyone else has to offer and acts like an immature child.
Is there anything critical you can tell me about what you don't like about Jane if any? Because I stated some of the good things about Jane in another post and i have said some things i disagreed or didn't like about Kenny.
Yes. As I also said in a prior post, I didn't like Jane's attitude towards Sarah when she first met her. However I can understand Jane's perspective. Also, the fact that Jane decides on her own to go back to save Sarah when the timer runs out proves to me that Jane's cold mentality was changing. I like Jane exactly because she started out as not the kindest character, but then she grew and changed for the better, in part due to Clem's influence.
I don't like the fact that Jane manipulated Clementine in the final fight scene with the baby plan, but as I said before, Jane wouldn't have needed to manipulate me in the first place since, if I had been able to play the way I wanted to play Clementine and say and do what I desired to do, Jane wouldn't have needed to go to such lengths to convince me that Kenny's so unstable, because I already agreed with her.
One last point, that I felt would be relevant to make (even though I don't really like posting it too often, since I feel like I'm spamming the forum when I do; however I believe the last time I posted it might've been about 6 months ago, so yeah.) You seem to really want to emphasize that everything we say is opinions; sure, fine. However, you have to remember, as I've said, that Kenny forced everyone to go to Wellington, remember? He was forcing everyone--including Clementine, AJ, and Jane--to go there, as he was driving them all in the truck, in the direction of "north" for "a few hours." These are facts. Ages ago, I took it upon myself to also do some calculations to estimate how long it should theoretically take Kenny, Clem, and AJ to find Wellington as well:
Let me break out some math here to estimate how long it could take Clem/Kenny to find Wellington. To keep things simple (we'll have to use somewhat crude assumptions), let's say that Wellington was in Michigan. Just the state of Michigan is about 250,494 square kilometers or about 96,716 square miles. Google says the average hiking speed is about 6 kilometers/hour at the fastest or about 3.7 miles/hour. Assuming Clem/Kenny could see 5 km or 3.1 miles (the curve of the Earth's surface) in either direction to spot Wellington while walking, they'd cover about (5km/direction * 2 directions of North and South * 6 km/hr) = 60 square km/hr at the fastest, or 23.2 sq miles/hr. So, assuming they could walk about 12 hours a day, it'd take them about (250,494 sq km * 1 hr/60 sq km) = 4174.9 hrs to search all of Michigan at the fastest, or (4174.9 hrs * 1 day/12 hrs * 1 week/7 days) = 49 weeks!!! to search all of Michigan for Wellington at the fastest. That's almost one year. And that's just one state--just the state of Michigan. (Kenny never stated what state Wellington was in; he just said it was "near" Michigan.) There's also Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana (and even Canada!) that share borders with Michigan. Keep in mind that the timing would be even longer if they had to go all around the border of Michigan, looking through these states and Canada, rather than going through the state of Michigan. And I didn't even include the time it would take them to run into things like snow, walkers, people, rivers, etc.
In conclusion, if you were going for realism, there's no way that they could've found Wellington in 9 days. It should've taken them something closer to a year, at least. If you were being realistic about it, Kenny, Clem, and AJ would most likely be dead before they ever reached Wellington. Now these calculations are an estimation, true, but they're based on facts. Not opinion. I can't just change the fact that Michigan is 250,949 square kilometers.
Jane knew these facts. She knew looking for Wellington was a suicide mission.
If you agree with Kenny, Clem says this:
To which Jane replies:
As we know however, and as I've stated before, Kenny was already forcing them on the road to Wellington. Whether your Clem wanted to go there or not; he had already been driving the entire group in whatever vague "direction" he might've guessed Wellington was in.
Jane hid AJ not only to prove to Clem that Kenny was unstable, but also to stop him from his suicidal mission to have them continue looking for Wellington. Otherwise, he would've dragged Clem, Jane, and AJ on and on and on to their deaths (if the writing actually took facts into account. Jane was the only adult left who could stand up to Kenny, and protect Clem, AJ, and even Kenny himself from being frozen to death. I wish she hadn't done it in the way she did, but I do agree that she had to stop him somehow.
I agree in the sense that fair enough she couldn't save her but my point is I would try to save my sibling and risk my life unless it was im… morepossible like throwing him/her to the roof or whatever, something Jane obviously was unable to do so if i was in Jane's position and could not save my sibling then yes i agree and accept what she did but me being a man, could i have thrown my sibling to safety? I would try but who knows for sure? Anyway, am i not allowed to agree with Jane? Does that shock you, lol? Do you think just because i like Kenny that i hate or critiscise everything about Jane? No. Believe it or not I will give my honest view on something if i think Jane is right about something or not.
You don't need to point this out to me man (or lady I don't which sorry). And i am going to say "my opinion" at the end of my posts because otherwise some newbie or someone in general will critiscise me for what i post thinking i am stating a fa… [view original content]
That's just the way I feel personally. I don't mean to be insulting to anyone and yeah I could be wrong. Can someone really understand the Godfather series or the character if he/she keeps repeating how much of a douche Pacino's character is and how much he dragged the series down? Can someone understand Taxi Driver if he/she hates De Niro's character and keeps repeating how much of a douche he was? Can someone understand Walking Dead if he hates Lee and keeps pointing out any and every controversial thing he done? To me it's the same with Kenny. Different perspectives to an extent yeah, but I think it's going too far when major elements of the series aren't really being appreciated or understood.
someone can't really get the full experience or really understand the series if they don't appreciate Kenny's character.
This is bor… morederline insulting, you realize?
If you're implying that people who simply have a different opinion of a character than you understand the series less than you, then frankly you're being unnecessarily rude.
Kenny critics/haters/whatever you want to call us understand his character--and we understand the season--perfectly fine. We've witnessed every one of his actions from the very beginning of the series, and personally I've judged him on every single action he makes in every single playthrough, not just one. I thought he was an interesting enough character in Season 1, and I believe his arc wrapped up nicely at the end of it. However bringing him back for Season 2 was just the biggest mistake of the season.
You can think he's an "interesting" character if you want, but frankly to me, "interesting… [view original content]
Im not one of those people who are like, "Season two was garbage, I hated it!" But I did think the Wellington thing was ree-diculous for the reasons you pointed out. Going back to Howes was the only thing that made sense to me out of the three options. It was a known quantity and it was a lot closer by. Once they got settled, maybe they could try to get more information about Wellington, but not just head off there blindly in a snowstorm with a friggen week old baby.
First off, there are a few things you have to understand.
1) When people reply to you and they disagree with you, they're not necessarily… more "attacking" you. I am certainly not attacking you. When you reply to many different people who disagree with you, they will more than likely respond, explaining why they disagree with you. It may be overwhelming to have them all reply to you at once and you might feel like you're being "ganged up on" or "attacked" because of the sheer number of disagreeing replies you get, but what exactly did you expect when you commented to so many people disagreeing with you in the first place? Not to mention by your definition you're "attacking" us as well when obviously that's not the case on either side.
2) Nearly everything everyone says on these forums is an opinion. I feel there's no real need to keep repeating this statement over and over and over again; otherwise it just becomes redundant and frankly, annoy… [view original content]
The idea that the writers portrayed Kenny as in the right for gambling everyone's lives to go to a safe haven he had no proof that even existed, with no sense of direction whatsoever, with little to no supplies, and in the middle of a freezing blizzard with no shelter from the cold, and giving his friends no choice but to go with him on what had appeared to be a suicide mission...actually kinda disturbs me a little.
Kenny is rewarded for his poor leadership skills, for his lack of regard for other people's well beings and opinions, for his poor rational thinking and planning skills, and for his stubborn refusal to control his anger, emotions, and take any kind of responsibility for his actions.
First off, there are a few things you have to understand.
1) When people reply to you and they disagree with you, they're not necessarily… more "attacking" you. I am certainly not attacking you. When you reply to many different people who disagree with you, they will more than likely respond, explaining why they disagree with you. It may be overwhelming to have them all reply to you at once and you might feel like you're being "ganged up on" or "attacked" because of the sheer number of disagreeing replies you get, but what exactly did you expect when you commented to so many people disagreeing with you in the first place? Not to mention by your definition you're "attacking" us as well when obviously that's not the case on either side.
2) Nearly everything everyone says on these forums is an opinion. I feel there's no real need to keep repeating this statement over and over and over again; otherwise it just becomes redundant and frankly, annoy… [view original content]
Yes. And don't forget that not only did Jane/Clem know the location of Howe's, but they also knew the building layout of it; they knew the entrances/exits; they knew who used to reside there, and approximately how malicious or benevolent these people were. None of this is known about Wellington, and lack of information about a place = more danger. Jane and Clem could use this information to observe Howe's properly and make a proper plan, scoping out who could be entering/exiting from the hardware store.
Once they got settled, maybe they could try to get more information about Wellington
It's funny, because (even though we're not sure) it's suggested that the family we meet in the Howe's ending may have actually gone to Wellington, and also got turned away.
Randy says, "You been up north?" to which Clem replies, "Yeah," and Randy replies in a defeated voice, "Yeah, us too." As I say, we can't be sure, but it seems to me that this family did get to Wellington, but got turned away, just like Kenny got turned away. (Or it could also be that the family couldn't find Wellington at all.) If the family had actually been to Wellington, now we might actually have an exact location of Wellington pinpointed, if we're able to get this information from the family in the future. And from that, you can make a proper, better plan to journey to Wellington, if you so desire.
Im not one of those people who are like, "Season two was garbage, I hated it!" But I did think the Wellington thing was ree-diculous for the… more reasons you pointed out. Going back to Howes was the only thing that made sense to me out of the three options. It was a known quantity and it was a lot closer by. Once they got settled, maybe they could try to get more information about Wellington, but not just head off there blindly in a snowstorm with a friggen week old baby.
The idea that the writers portrayed Kenny as in the right for gambling everyone's lives to go to a safe haven he had no proof that even exis… moreted, with no sense of direction whatsoever, with little to no supplies, and in the middle of a freezing blizzard with no shelter from the cold, and giving his friends no choice but to go with him on what had appeared to be a suicide mission...actually kinda disturbs me a little.
Kenny is rewarded for his poor leadership skills, for his lack of regard for other people's well beings and opinions, for his poor rational thinking and planning skills, and for his stubborn refusal to control his anger, emotions, and take any kind of responsibility for his actions.
The more I look at Kenny's endings, the more I think that they remind me of this trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Glurge
This is. STILL. GOING!!? JESUS Christ. 2 years ago it was cancerous, now it's like I'm getting Vietnam flashbacks.
Ok why don't we all ag… moreree that season 2 sucked when it came to character development. I mean ALL of the arguments are invalid when you see how much of the development just, crumbles down. Like Jane forcing you to go to the drivers seat (AND THE GAME FORCES YOU) and drive a f@cking truck in a middle of a f@cking blizzard. Kenny having a dying Sarita on his lap and stocking her hair so creepily, while you are talking to him (FORCEFULLY again) and him looking like a f James Bond villain. (also his gf being dead has a larger impact on his living than his WIFE and KID. So stupid.)
The writing sucked, and every characters task, their purphose in this game, was just so stupid and meaningless... just a road to nowhere...
I don't mean to invalidate any points, but in S2, the travel times and locations altogether don't really make much sense to begin with. They start off in North Carolina. Christa makes note that it's late fall/early winter by this point, mentioning how they have 'a few hard months' ahead of them, and how the rain will eventually turn to snow. Clementine goes down the river, walks and eventually finds the cabin group.
5 days later, they're now in Virginia. Now they get taken back to Carver's camp. It's apparently close to where the cabin was, but also close enough for Carver to trek 5 days to find them. So they get taken back to this place, which seems a fair distance away (they get caught at night, episode 3 opens during the day, and they finally arrive at night. Also on the topic, Carver says they're about thirty minutes out, yet by the time they get to Howe's, its already pitch black out.) Luke also somehow manages to make his way there, and going off of locations, there is no humanly possible way he could make it to Howe's as soon as he did, unless he got in a car and drove. Another confusing part is why there's the beginning of a snow storm at the lodge, yet next to no sign of cold weather in Howe's.
Then we leave Howe's and go north, and a few days later, we're out on the road, somewhere presumably cold enough that there's already snowfall covering the entire area. Then Kenny and Jane drive a few hours in the middle of a blizzard all of the sudden, and Jane says it'd take no more than a day to get back to Howe's. Then when they go back to Howe's (which takes 9 days for some reason), there's no sign of snow, or winter weather at all. So where in the hell is Howe's? If it's close enough to reach in a day, why is there no sign of foul weather?
Furthermore, if we're assuming that Wellington is in the north, let's just say for the sake of it that Wellington's in in Ohio, that means that wherever they are in episode 5 has to be relatively close to it, going with the weather patterns. That would further confuse things, since that means that this group started out in the Virginia area, and somehow ended up in the northern states on foot, over the span of about ~3 days. With an exhausted, pregnant Rebecca in tow, how are they able to make that much distance per day on foot?
Oh yeah, even more confusing is the alone ending. Over the course of 9 days, nevermind where Clementine found baby formula and food, they're in sunny, blue sky plains with nice green grass. It's practically spring weather now. So where in the holy hell are they? Or more importantly, where the hell is Howe's located? Where is anything located? Because it's definitely not lining up to any existing maps that I know of.
As far as all the geographical stuff is concerned, S2 is kind of all over the place, literally and figuratively. I don't blame people for not wanting to completely adhere to real world geography, but at least check out your states first and see if the travel times and stuff make sense.
First off, there are a few things you have to understand.
1) When people reply to you and they disagree with you, they're not necessarily… more "attacking" you. I am certainly not attacking you. When you reply to many different people who disagree with you, they will more than likely respond, explaining why they disagree with you. It may be overwhelming to have them all reply to you at once and you might feel like you're being "ganged up on" or "attacked" because of the sheer number of disagreeing replies you get, but what exactly did you expect when you commented to so many people disagreeing with you in the first place? Not to mention by your definition you're "attacking" us as well when obviously that's not the case on either side.
2) Nearly everything everyone says on these forums is an opinion. I feel there's no real need to keep repeating this statement over and over and over again; otherwise it just becomes redundant and frankly, annoy… [view original content]
This is true. The locations are definitely all over the place, for sure. However, the fact remains that a part of the last season finale decision of this game depends on if the Wellington plan was a good one, or if the Howe's plan was a good one. The locations of Howe's and Wellington had to be considered (the game was clearly asking us to closely consider these locations) and the fact remains that the characters knew exactly where Howe's was, and they had no idea if Wellington actually existed, let alone its location. For the final decision, it doesn't really matter that we as the player didn't know where Howe's was (as in, its exact location in the US); all that matters is that it was close, and that the characters all definitely knew exactly how to get there.
Jane says it'd take no more than a day to get back to Howe's. Then when they go back to Howe's (which takes 9 days for some reason)
I believe she meant it'd take just one day to get back to Howe's using the truck they had. Not one day by walking.
I don't mean to invalidate any points, but in S2, the travel times and locations altogether don't really make much sense to begin with. They… more start off in North Carolina. Christa makes note that it's late fall/early winter by this point, mentioning how they have 'a few hard months' ahead of them, and how the rain will eventually turn to snow. Clementine goes down the river, walks and eventually finds the cabin group.
5 days later, they're now in Virginia. Now they get taken back to Carver's camp. It's apparently close to where the cabin was, but also close enough for Carver to trek 5 days to find them. So they get taken back to this place, which seems a fair distance away (they get caught at night, episode 3 opens during the day, and they finally arrive at night. Also on the topic, Carver says they're about thirty minutes out, yet by the time they get to Howe's, its already pitch black out.) Luke also somehow manages to make his way there, … [view original content]
Never did I say that I was right and you are wrong. Don't put words in my mouth please; I really don't appreciate it.
Well sorry if this has offended you sialark but it just seemed like you were to me
In addition I chose to screenshot this particular scene because I felt it was a scene that I've never seen people even mention or take note of anywhere on these forums, and I felt it deserved more attention. If you however do find a post discussing it, please by all means link me.
That's fine, its good to find scenes that doesn't seem to have been discussed much. I have no problem with that. I just would have liked something from another perspective perhaps from another scene also.
This is false. I have actually publicly successfully changed the opinion of at least one forum user on their opinion of Jane in the distant past.
So I have been able to sway people's opinions before and I don't see why I can't do it again.
Lol well congrats on converting him/her, that's surprised me to be honest. Was he/she a Kenny fan? Or just someone who maybe didn't like Jane at first? Like do they now hate Kenny and like Jane after you changed their mind?
Please don't take this the wrong way, you see this sounds to me like you are trying to deliberately change people's views when you say you "successfully" changed their opinion and saying you don't see why you can't do it again, i mean that's fine if that's what you want to do but i actually don't want to change people's minds about Kenny, even if my posts sound like they do, because if everyone agreed on the same thing then the world would be a very boring place right? I just want people to see things from my perspective if they don't already, not asking them to change their minds. I'd love to sit round a table with all of you guys in person and discuss everything because i can probably make it clearer than i do on here.
I've swayed people by using my opinions, as well as by pointing out actual things that happened in the game. I never claimed that my opinions were fact.
Again i'm sorry if that wasn't the case from you but it just sounded like it was
As you love to point out, that's your opinion and my opinion is that Jane was doing these good deeds because she had a change of heart. Especially when she's arguing with Clem in the woods
Good find comparing the scene in the woods and when they spoke at the picnic table, i liked that. I noticed she said "Well it's sometimes good to have someone watching your back" but the sometimes line is probably not important but could imply she still prefers to be on her own lol.
Jane's still very much a loner though and i still question what she would do if something happened where Clem/AJ were in danger. If her own life was at risk would she try and save them? I'm not so sure because she made that clear with Sarah when she insisted on leaving her at the trailer. Even letting the timer run out after the deck collapsed and her going to save her, Clem can still have the option to say "don't pretend your sorry, you didn't even want to save her", pretty sure that's what the line is. I won't forget that which is why i wonder if she'd be reluctant if Clem or AJ were in danger. I know she saved Clem from the freezing water and that was a risk but what if there was a situation where they were surrounded by walkers and Jane was the only one nearest to being able to escape safely but Clem/AJ weren't? It just makes me wonder. However i stand by what I've always said, i think Jane sees Clementine as a replacement for her sister, she cares for Clem in that sense yes and the good points i mentioned in the other post about her reflect that but at the same time would she risk her own life for her and the baby if it came down to it? I'm not so sure.
EVERYONE has their own opinions and you making all these screenshots trying to prove that those opposed to you are wrong and we are not.
… more
Excuse me, but I'm going to back up my argument with actual canon scenes from the game if I find that it will help my argument. I'm just presenting my opinion and backing it up with scenes that actually happened in the game. Never did I say that I was right and you are wrong. Don't put words in my mouth please; I really don't appreciate it.
You damn well know that, didn't choose to screenshot the other choices?
As I said before, I chose to screenshot this particular scene because it portrays how irrational and stubborn Kenny is. Even when he's confronted with every person in the group disagreeing with him, even when he's confronted with a vote where he's the only one dissenting, he runs away from the argument like an angry toddler. He doesn't try to negotiate; he doesn't try to find a s… [view original content]
Hey @sialark, I agreed with all your post, until you did all the math. You calculated how much time it would take Kenny, Clem and A.J. to find Wellington in Michigan, but I always thought that the Wellington Christa and Kenny were talking about was the real-life Village in Ohio (I did some research back in the day). You can read about it on their official website and on Wikipedia's article.
So I assumed that Wellington was a bit like Woodbury (not in the sense that a madman is the leader), as both of them would be fortified towns. And I thought it was odd that Kenny nor Christa had a map in which they had located Wellington.
First off, there are a few things you have to understand.
1) When people reply to you and they disagree with you, they're not necessarily… more "attacking" you. I am certainly not attacking you. When you reply to many different people who disagree with you, they will more than likely respond, explaining why they disagree with you. It may be overwhelming to have them all reply to you at once and you might feel like you're being "ganged up on" or "attacked" because of the sheer number of disagreeing replies you get, but what exactly did you expect when you commented to so many people disagreeing with you in the first place? Not to mention by your definition you're "attacking" us as well when obviously that's not the case on either side.
2) Nearly everything everyone says on these forums is an opinion. I feel there's no real need to keep repeating this statement over and over and over again; otherwise it just becomes redundant and frankly, annoy… [view original content]
Hello BetterToSleep--yes, I'm aware that Wellington, Ohio exists. However, Kenny states that Wellington is a camp "near Michigan" and that's literally all we know about its location.
Going from that, I started my calculations for Michigan, as I assumed that Kenny would head towards Michigan as his starting point. Not Ohio, as no one in the game ever says anything about Ohio.
This doesn't change the fact that Kenny did not know of its existence on a map. He doesn't say it's a camp "in Ohio." It's pretty clear throughout the season that no character the player comes across knows exactly where it is. Even Carver thinks of it as some "Shangri-La," meaning, a mythical paradise:
and you'd think he as a leader in an established community would have the resources to look it up on a map, or maybe even attempt to figure out where it was (if it was another community, it could possibly pose a future threat to Howe's, so I don't see why he wouldn't look into it.) In addition, Christa seems to be the logical prepared type who would show Clementine where Wellington was on a map, and you'd think if you played as Clementine supporting the Wellington idea, she'd bring up Wellington's existence on a map to try to convince the others in the group. However, she has the option to yell at Kenny, "There's nothing out here!" showing Clementine has no evidence of its existence either.
Clem never does bring up its existence on a map, and Kenny never indicates that he has any other tangible information about its location either (if he did, wouldn't he bring it up to convince the others to go there?) If Wellington was on a map (and they knew it was on a map), and if Kenny/Clem actually brought that up as one of their points for arguing that Wellington was a real place to go, then I highly doubt there would have been as much strife and debate as there was in the group, which eventually led to its destruction.
Kenny even admits that what he knows is just based off of rumors
and he even says that it might be bullshit.
He did not know where it was.
But to keep things consistent, I repeated the calculations but had them search through Ohio instead of Michigan (Ohio is 44,825 sq km), so after just replacing that number, it comes out that they'd need 9 weeks, or 63 days, to search through all of Ohio. That's still a significant amount of time--7 times longer than indicated in the game, and I still wouldn't chance walking around for that amount of time in freezing weather and blizzards with a newborn baby with walkers and bandits about, and no food and one gun.
And I thought it was odd that Kenny nor Christa had a map in which they had located Wellington.
Really I just think this is just a gaping plot hole the story had to have in order for the plot to make sense, and to have all this conflict happen in the first place. It's unfortunate, but that's the way they chose to write the story.
So I assumed that Wellington was a bit like Woodbury (not in the sense that a madman is the leader), as both of them would be fortified towns.
Yes, Wellington could have been a fortified version of a town from before the zombie apocalypse. However, it could also have been a different kind of camp (Kenny calls it a "big camp" when describing it, not a "town.") Given its exterior with all the shipping crates:
I'm guessing it wasn't ever a town, but it miiiight just be a fortified shipping yard, something like this, but surrounded by a wall:
In addition, we can't be sure that this settlement where Edith is is actually Wellington, Ohio. The shipping containers have the words "Wellington Global Shipping" on them:
and this was found by Deltino in the game files:
however, this can't confirm that this settlement is in Wellington, Ohio; it just happens to have the name "Wellington" in it. It would be like coming across a warehouse in Kansas that has the New York & Company women's clothing logo on it, but New York City is no where near that actual warehouse.
Also, sorry if all the screenshots are annoying or if it seems I'm beating some points to death. Sometimes I feel like I'm spamming but I just want to make a point. >.<
Hey @sialark, I agreed with all your post, until you did all the math. You calculated how much time it would take Kenny, Clem and A.J. to fi… morend Wellington in Michigan, but I always thought that the Wellington Christa and Kenny were talking about was the real-life Village in Ohio (I did some research back in the day). You can read about it on their official website and on Wikipedia's article.
So I assumed that Wellington was a bit like Woodbury (not in the sense that a madman is the leader), as both of them would be fortified towns. And I thought it was odd that Kenny nor Christa had a map in which they had located Wellington.
No please, the screenshots are alright! They probably shouldn't, but I feel like they give a bit more credibility to your post.
Yeah, it does seem like it would take them a lot less effort to find Wellington if knowing where it is was as easy as pinpointing it on a map. And who knows, it might be a shipping container company! Do those have cranes, by the way?
I think we can agree on a couple of things, though. It's pretty unrealistic that Kenny, Clem and A.J. found Wellington in nine days having no idea where it could be.
Also, how are Christa, Carver and Kenny all supposed to know about Wellington's existence when it's up near Michigan? Christa and Clem were in North Carolina when they were talking about getting more wood. Howe's Hardware is supposed to be in Tennessee. Moonstar Lodge is in the Blue Ridge Mountains, Virginia.
Also, the dialog with Matthew can go like this, implying that there's a lot more people coming from the South that go to Wellington:
Matthew: You folks headed North, like everyone else?
Luke: "Everyone else?"
Matthew: I see at least one group a day move through here. Y'all look the same. It's like a great migration of the dazed and confused.
Clem: Have you seen someone named Christa?
Matthew: Christa? Maybe.
Clem: Really?
Matthew: Nah, I mean, a lot of people come through here. I don't know!
And I don't think them recruiting is the reason that the word spread that fast, considering that they're overpopulated. Or perhaps they sent a ton of people recruiting everywhere down South, but overestimated their capacity, and found themselves with a bunch of hangry people on their doorstep.
Hello BetterToSleep--yes, I'm aware that Wellington, Ohio exists. However, Kenny states that Wellington is a camp "near Michigan" and that's… more literally all we know about its location.
Going from that, I started my calculations for Michigan, as I assumed that Kenny would head towards Michigan as his starting point. Not Ohio, as no one in the game ever says anything about Ohio.
This doesn't change the fact that Kenny did not know of its existence on a map. He doesn't say it's a camp "in Ohio." It's pretty clear throughout the season that no character the player comes across knows exactly where it is. Even Carver thinks of it as some "Shangri-La," meaning, a mythical paradise:
and you'd think he as a leader in an established community would have the resources to look it up on a map, or maybe even attempt to figure out where it was (if it was another community, it could possibly pose a future threat to Howe's, so I don't see why h… [view original content]
This is. STILL. GOING!!? JESUS Christ. 2 years ago it was cancerous, now it's like I'm getting Vietnam flashbacks.
Ok why don't we all ag… moreree that season 2 sucked when it came to character development. I mean ALL of the arguments are invalid when you see how much of the development just, crumbles down. Like Jane forcing you to go to the drivers seat (AND THE GAME FORCES YOU) and drive a f@cking truck in a middle of a f@cking blizzard. Kenny having a dying Sarita on his lap and stocking her hair so creepily, while you are talking to him (FORCEFULLY again) and him looking like a f James Bond villain. (also his gf being dead has a larger impact on his living than his WIFE and KID. So stupid.)
The writing sucked, and every characters task, their purphose in this game, was just so stupid and meaningless... just a road to nowhere...
it took me one year to figure that I was supporting a dude who enjoyed beating children, who is a murderer and who has a dictatorial atittude. Atm I just dislike him and I rewinded so that I could stop him from murdering another person (Jane).
A question for you: when do you think you realized you disliked Kenny? You said a year passed before you changed your mind, but do you know what it was exactly that did change your mind or why things may have changed for you?
The second he was let out of the shed, he could have immediately left before the herd had arrived.
He could, but that's not how huma… morens behave at all. There's always dialogue before he leaves the shed: Kenny will ask Lee about his arm (determinant) and explain why is he loked in a shed which he obviously had to explain becase that is how humans behave then don't just ignore people and leave. Than the herd comes not giving him a chance of leaving. I don't doubt Kenny would've stayed even if he had a chance but when talking in the Houses yard he sugests going after the boat and if you, as a Lee that is not Kenny's bitch, say that they should go to the countryside he will start imediatly bitching about it instead of showing his arguments for wanting to go to the boat. And see that's the problem about Kenny - he wants really badly to people to obey him and understand his point of view and yet he refuses to ear other people and other points… [view original content]
when do you think you realized you disliked Kenny?
This summer when I replayed the game.
I tried to pay more atention to the chracters and their actions. I tried to understand why they were doing what they are doing.
Now, back when No Going Back was realeased when I saved Kenny and, when I saw that Jane had planned it all, all I thought was "she is manipulative and she brought this to herself", I didn't even worried about asking myself why did Jane hide the baby. I remember being such a Kenny fanboy that I could ignore everything he did just because his "good intentions" made it all up!
Now when I did my replay I payed more atention to jane character and well, I liked her as a character a lot. Then when playing episode 5 i finally decided to see Jane's POV:
There's a dude in your group that looks to apreciate needless violence;
The only person (apart from the baby that can't talk) that he seems to care about couldn't control him;
A person in your group dies and he imediately starts blaming the guy who had nothing to do with it and then he starts beating for god know what reason;
He gets people scared (Mike and Bonnie) and makes the group fall apart;
And to add more salt to the wound he decides to insult you.
With that said it's clear that Jane knew that Kenny couldn't be controled and that she needed to get away from him. The only problem is that a person she cared about seemed to want to keep following that dude (because the game didn't gave us the option to express our dislike of him).
So yes after thinking about it for a while Jane had every reason to want Clem away from Kenny. The whole "the baby died" arc happened due Clem being unable to express her dislike for Kenny so it's also understandable that she did that to show Clem that Kenny is a monster.
So yes above all I used to "love" Kenny so much because I had a tunneled vision that only could see Kenny's point of view. I would get any excuses just to accept Kenny's monstrous acts, such as:
"It's ok to kill Larry! Kenny was only looking out for himself" - Larry could be alive. If Lee decides to try and save Larry, Kenny (as always) just thinks that his choice is the only on acceptable!
"It's ok to Leave Lilly! She shot Carley!" - No it's not. While Lilly's act was terrible it didn't mean she didn't deserved forgiveness. I mean Lee also murdered before out of anger and no one cared and obviously Lilly had just lost her father and she was being forced to live with the dude who murdered her dad she was obviously on edge and her act is way more understandable (still wrong ofc) than Lee's that was in a perfect state of mind when he did it.
"It's ok that he wants to let Ben die, the guy caused his family death!" - Ben did not caused his family death, he delayed it, and even if he did caused it he obviously didn't want Kenny's family to die.
"The herd plan that he forces everyone to go through was great!" - Even if the plan was great (which it wasn't) and Clem agreed on it Kenny would've to listen to the group's opinion about it. (This also applies to his Wellington plan)
"Screaming at Clem is fine! He was angry! It's totally understandable!" - This one shows how much I (and basically every Kenny fan) was obsessed and submissive to Kenny.
"Beating Arvo is ok! He deserved it!" - There's no point in hurting (verbaly and physicaly) Arvo it achieves nothing.
"Jane deserved to be attacked by Kenny" - Did she? After she claiming that it was an accidentand warn kenny that, if he attacks her, she won't back down, kenny was obviuosly the reason of the fight. Just imagine: what if Kenny just talked with Jane?"
(Crap, i divagated a lot xP)
But yeah above all I had an obession for Kenny, and that made me ignore human values and other people's vision of things. I'm glad that i got to change my mind and I hope that I've lernt to never get that obsessed for a character.
@ IronWoodLover
it took me one year to figure that I was supporting a dude who enjoyed beating children, who is a murderer and who has… more a dictatorial atittude. Atm I just dislike him and I rewinded so that I could stop him from murdering another person (Jane).
A question for you: when do you think you realized you disliked Kenny? You said a year passed before you changed your mind, but do you know what it was exactly that did change your mind or why things may have changed for you?
I found there was plenty of time were you can tell Kenny to go **** himself, him and his ideas. Sure the other characters assume we were friends but I keep correcting them about the nature of our relationship. No, Walter I wasn't really close to Kenny or telling him Wellington is just another one of his pipe dream in NGB.
As far as I'm concerned none of it would have happened if Telltale actually gave us opportunities to express dislike of Kenny as Clementine … more- as it is Jane did it because she thought it was the only way we'd be convinced. I would have gone if she'd asked.
I found there was plenty of time were you can tell Kenny to go **** himself, him and his ideas. Sure the other characters assume we were fri… moreends but I keep correcting them about the nature of our relationship. No, Walter I wasn't really close to Kenny or telling him Wellington is just another one of his pipe dream in NGB.
Options: 'I trust you' 'I'm scared' 'This is a bad plan'.
No option to say 'No Kenny, I don't trust you.'
And the entire Jane situation at the end of episode 5 relies on the assumption that Clementine is attached to Kenny in some way, which mine wasn't, due to him refusing to help save her.
I found there was plenty of time were you can tell Kenny to go **** himself, him and his ideas. Sure the other characters assume we were fri… moreends but I keep correcting them about the nature of our relationship. No, Walter I wasn't really close to Kenny or telling him Wellington is just another one of his pipe dream in NGB.
Comments
Kenny, Christa and Lee all had a heart to heart moment in the mansion's attic where pretty much all of the animosity dissipates; at least up until Kenny's sacrifice. And said sacrifice is determinately for the sake of Christa should Ben no longer be around. So at the very least they made peace with each other right before Kenny "dies".
@Everyone'sClemInTime
I shall do lol. There are more anti Kenny fans here nowadays than pro Kenny as i have said before but this is the best site ive been on for discussions on this game, most people are quite calm and decent so i'll still continue to post here
Never hated kenny, never.
When I look at it in retrospective, it always amuses me how he has argued/fought with almost everyone on the group. This post is not meant to demonize Kenny's character in any way.
Kenny and Lilly have a very tense relationship with one another, as they don't agree in how to run the Travelier Motel group. He dismisses her role as leader of the group, and advocates to leave her on the road at night after she murdered Carley out of paranoia or mistakenly shot Doug.
Kenny showed his hatred toward Larry after the latter argued to throw Duck out of the Everrett Pharmacy, going to the extent of punching him. The two continue to frequently argue during "Starved For Help".
Kenny dismisses both Carley and Doug during the argument that takes place at the start of "Long Road Ahead".
After Ben confesses to have been giving medicine to the Save-Lots bandits, Kenny deduces that Katjaa and Duck died because of him, and his initial reaction is to kill him, persuading Lee to let him die and swearing at Ben for the rest of "Around Every Corner" and "No Time Left" (determinant).
Tension arose between Kenny and Chuck after a heated argument about the group and how much it is capable to do regarding the oil tanker blocking the train's way.
When Christa and Kenng meet, Kenny sees her and Omid as "excess baggage" and insists that the two of them are slowing down him and the rest of the group. Because of this, Christa doesn't care much for him and vice versa. In "Around Every Corner", Kenny seems open to leaving Omid behind if the infection in his leg worsens, concentrated only on finding a boat. In "No Time Left", Kenny argues and acusses Omid and Christa of being selfish in their motives, and only caring about each other rather than the whole group.
When they first met, Kenny tried to come at her with a gun, despite Lee telling him otherwise. Later when she revealed that she was the one who rang bells in Savannah, Kenny acusses her of deliberately trying to get them killed even though she had no idea who they were. After Molly ditches Les in Crawford while still having the battery, Kenny thinks that she abandoned them and remarks that they hardly know her. Lee approaches him and reminds him that she saved his life earlier that day, and he replies asking him what has she done for him lately.
Kenny always seemed distrustful over Vernon and acted uneasy whenever having a conversation with him. He was eager to blame him for kidnapping Clementine, and questioned why he wanted to bring Brie to Crawford, as she would just slow them down.
Kenny was annoyed by Walter freely giving Bonnie a large amount of food, and presumably berated him.
Luke and Kenny are shown to have a very tense relationship in which both display much cynicism about the intentions of one another. In "Amid The Ruins", their relationship becomes more hostile than ever before; when Clementine/Mike caught him having sex with Jane, Kenny yells at him, telling him that he is being reckless. Their disputes continue, as after Rebecca gives birth, Luke and Kenny argue about whether they should leave tomorrow or after a few days later to give Rebecca some time to recover. Luke and Kenny will argue once again on their way north.
Kenny and Nick are shown to have a slightly tense relationship in which both display a little cynicism about the intentions of one another. This can be shown when Kenng glares at Nick when they first come into the lodge. With an angry expression, he also gets into an argument and calls Nick after an American rapper, Vanilla Ice. Despite this, Nick respects Kenny to some extent, and feels sorry for him when he learns that Kenny lost his family. After being captured by Carver, he still doesn't get along with Nick, referring to Nick as a "kid".
While being transported to Carver's camp, Carlos expresses displeasure towards Kenny's reckless attitude, explaining that his ill-considered actions could have dangerous consequences in the future. Kenny disregards Carlos' arguments, telling him that it's not his decision to make.
While being transported back to Carver's camp, Rebecca reassures Kenny that Luke is on his way to help them, to which Kenny responds that he is long gone, and states that the cabin group is only being brought back to where they live. Rebecca will become angry toward Kenny, blaming his actions for the death of his husband (determinant), as well as Walter's. While discussing their plans to escape the Howe's Hardware store, the two constantly disagree with each other, with Kenny saying that she is hard to deal with, and Rebecca saying that he isn't a peach, either.
Kenny is very hostile to Reggie after hearing what Reggie thought of Carver, not trusting him and thinking that he is a "weirdo", even though Reggie attempted to be friendly toward Kenny at their first meeting.
Kenny and Mike initially disliked each other, and Kenny pins him against a fortified window while working on the expansion, causing the window to break and luring walkers inside Howe's Hardware recently cleared area. During "No Going Back", their relationship begins to deteriorate. They are seen arguing in the background after the firefight, but Jane quickly approaches them and breaks it off. Later, Kenny disregards Mike's opinion about where they should drive.
In "No Going Back", Bonnie will tell Kenny to stop overreacting from the gunfight against the Russian group. While the group is in the forest, Bonnie will mention that she offered to re-bandage Kenny's eye wound but he refused, suggesting that he does not trust her enough to do so. Once Kenny gets the Russian group's truck started, she will appear to agree with Mike and Jane that they should head south, but Kenny disregards her opinion.
After expressing different feelings about the manner in which Kenny is treating Arvo, Kenny and Jane start showing feelings of hatred toward one another. Kenny also feels that Jane is not trustworthy and cannot be left alone with Alvin Junior, despite her coming back and saving his life. While in the Russian group's truck, the two heatedly dispute about where to go. The argument quickly turns personal, both making jives about previous decisions and losses. Once the car stops in from of other disowned cars it seems like Jane was about to apologize to Kenny but he leaves before she can. When they reunite at the pitstop, Jane appears to have lost A.J. due to the harsh blizzard, and Kenny runs off to look for the baby before she can explain what happened. After he comes back, he charges at Jane and pins her against a window, assuming that she left A.J. to die, and starts a fight that will end with him stabbing Jane in the chest or Clementine shooting him on the stomach to prevent the killing.
EDIT: Nevermind. I got it fixed.
Kenny's "my way or the highway" attitude is what makes him so hard to like for me.
This is. STILL. GOING!!? JESUS Christ. 2 years ago it was cancerous, now it's like I'm getting Vietnam flashbacks.
Ok why don't we all agree that season 2 sucked when it came to character development. I mean ALL of the arguments are invalid when you see how much of the development just, crumbles down. Like Jane forcing you to go to the drivers seat (AND THE GAME FORCES YOU) and drive a f@cking truck in a middle of a f@cking blizzard. Kenny having a dying Sarita on his lap and stocking her hair so creepily, while you are talking to him (FORCEFULLY again) and him looking like a f James Bond villain. (also his gf being dead has a larger impact on his living than his WIFE and KID. So stupid.)
The writing sucked, and every characters task, their purphose in this game, was just so stupid and meaningless... just a road to nowhere...
Its not that serious, lol
So, going off this list: Shawn, Glenn, Mark, and Alvin are literally the only characters he never argued or started shit with
I liked Season Two..
This is borderline insulting, you realize?
If you're implying that people who simply have a different opinion of a character than you understand the series less than you, then frankly you're being unnecessarily rude.
Kenny critics/haters/whatever you want to call us understand his character--and we understand the season--perfectly fine. We've witnessed every one of his actions from the very beginning of the series, and personally I've judged him on every single action he makes in every single playthrough, not just one. I thought he was an interesting enough character in Season 1, and I believe his arc wrapped up nicely at the end of it. However bringing him back for Season 2 was just the biggest mistake of the season.
You can think he's an "interesting" character if you want, but frankly to me, "interesting" isn't the word I would use. He's more like a fog horn that won't stop going off--something loud, keeping your attention whether you want it to or not, and simply annoying you--the whole time you're just trying to find the "off" button so you can get other things done, but he's drowning you out the whole time and making that incredibly difficult.
Nevertheless, I can see why people would choose to go with him. I can see why people would have some sort of loyalty to him. They feel some sort of brotherhood or camaraderie towards him. It's just that I simply do not feel this way in the slightest.
Excuse me, but I'm going to back up my argument with actual canon scenes from the game if I find that it will help my argument. I'm just presenting my opinion and backing it up with scenes that actually happened in the game. Never did I say that I was right and you are wrong. Don't put words in my mouth please; I really don't appreciate it.
As I said before, I chose to screenshot this particular scene because it portrays how irrational and stubborn Kenny is. Even when he's confronted with every person in the group disagreeing with him, even when he's confronted with a vote where he's the only one dissenting, he runs away from the argument like an angry toddler. He doesn't try to negotiate; he doesn't try to find a solution. He doesn't care to hear what anybody else thinks, and that's a problem.
In addition I chose to screenshot this particular scene because I felt it was a scene that I've never seen people even mention or take note of anywhere on these forums, and I felt it deserved more attention. If you however do find a post discussing it, please by all means link me.
That's exactly my point. It's the same outcome whatever choice is said--no matter what, Kenny will always end the argument without hearing a word of what other people's proposed plans are. I'm trying to show that I was hoping it would be different--I was hoping that, if Kenny was confronted with a vote at least, that he would actually realize that maybe there are other ideas that he could consider. But that was not the case, and thus it was extra disappointing to see.
This is false. I have actually publicly successfully changed the opinion of at least one forum user on their opinion of Jane in the distant past.
So I have been able to sway people's opinions before and I don't see why I can't do it again.
I've swayed people by using my opinions, as well as by pointing out actual things that happened in the game. I never claimed that my opinions were fact.
You're missing the entire point. Everything you just said above has nothing to do with the argument. Kenny4President2016 was trying to claim that Jane was completely responsible for breaking up the entire group; I showed that before Jane ever speaks one word about Kenny to Clementine in the game, before she ever even mentions him once, Mike and Bonnie beat her to it, telling Clem how Kenny's violent outbursts were scaring them, showing that before Jane had anything to do with it, Mike and Bonnie were already wary and fearful of Kenny. They already knew that Kenny had just lost Sarita; they were sympathizing with him; e.g. Bonnie says, "I know he didn't mean it," but she continues on with, "but it was scary." Even though they realize he's going through a hard time, they're still afraid of him and mistrustful of him.
As you love to point out, that's your opinion and my opinion is that Jane was doing these good deeds because she had a change of heart. Especially when she's arguing with Clem in the woods, and this is what can happen:
When Jane argues it's better to be alone, Clem can say, "There's nobody to watch your back. And when something does happen, there's nobody there to help you."
And then when Jane's at the picnic table, this is what she says:
Jane follows up, saying, "Well, it's sometimes good to have someone watching your back," echoing what Clementine said before, and showing that Jane clearly appreciates Clementine's company.
First off, there are a few things you have to understand.
1) When people reply to you and they disagree with you, they're not necessarily "attacking" you. I am certainly not attacking you. When you reply to many different people who disagree with you, they will more than likely respond, explaining why they disagree with you. It may be overwhelming to have them all reply to you at once and you might feel like you're being "ganged up on" or "attacked" because of the sheer number of disagreeing replies you get, but what exactly did you expect when you commented to so many people disagreeing with you in the first place? Not to mention by your definition you're "attacking" us as well when obviously that's not the case on either side.
2) Nearly everything everyone says on these forums is an opinion. I feel there's no real need to keep repeating this statement over and over and over again; otherwise it just becomes redundant and frankly, annoying. If you really wish to continue stating so then fine, I can't stop you.
Now that we got that cleared out of the way, let's move on.
This doesn't shock me. I'm merely pointing out that you're contradicting yourself when in one comment you say:
and then in the next comment you say:
and because of that your argument is very flimsy.
Lololol, but I am criticizing it! I criticize the game/story/writing all the time lol.
Ugh. The problem is that Kenny's supposed "best" qualities are also his worst qualities too. He stands by people and cares for them...but only if those people are "with him," and the problem is that any tiny thing could make you not "with him" anymore. For the people he cares about, he does his best to keep them safe...except his foolish ideas get his loved ones into more trouble than anything. You could say it's good he's determined and persistent and stands by his ideas...but then he stubbornly doesn't listen to what anyone else has to offer and acts like an immature child.
Yes. As I also said in a prior post, I didn't like Jane's attitude towards Sarah when she first met her. However I can understand Jane's perspective. Also, the fact that Jane decides on her own to go back to save Sarah when the timer runs out proves to me that Jane's cold mentality was changing. I like Jane exactly because she started out as not the kindest character, but then she grew and changed for the better, in part due to Clem's influence.
I don't like the fact that Jane manipulated Clementine in the final fight scene with the baby plan, but as I said before, Jane wouldn't have needed to manipulate me in the first place since, if I had been able to play the way I wanted to play Clementine and say and do what I desired to do, Jane wouldn't have needed to go to such lengths to convince me that Kenny's so unstable, because I already agreed with her.
One last point, that I felt would be relevant to make (even though I don't really like posting it too often, since I feel like I'm spamming the forum when I do; however I believe the last time I posted it might've been about 6 months ago, so yeah.) You seem to really want to emphasize that everything we say is opinions; sure, fine. However, you have to remember, as I've said, that Kenny forced everyone to go to Wellington, remember? He was forcing everyone--including Clementine, AJ, and Jane--to go there, as he was driving them all in the truck, in the direction of "north" for "a few hours." These are facts. Ages ago, I took it upon myself to also do some calculations to estimate how long it should theoretically take Kenny, Clem, and AJ to find Wellington as well:
In conclusion, if you were going for realism, there's no way that they could've found Wellington in 9 days. It should've taken them something closer to a year, at least. If you were being realistic about it, Kenny, Clem, and AJ would most likely be dead before they ever reached Wellington. Now these calculations are an estimation, true, but they're based on facts. Not opinion. I can't just change the fact that Michigan is 250,949 square kilometers.
Jane knew these facts. She knew looking for Wellington was a suicide mission.
If you agree with Kenny, Clem says this:
To which Jane replies:
As we know however, and as I've stated before, Kenny was already forcing them on the road to Wellington. Whether your Clem wanted to go there or not; he had already been driving the entire group in whatever vague "direction" he might've guessed Wellington was in.
Jane hid AJ not only to prove to Clem that Kenny was unstable, but also to stop him from his suicidal mission to have them continue looking for Wellington. Otherwise, he would've dragged Clem, Jane, and AJ on and on and on to their deaths (if the writing actually took facts into account. Jane was the only adult left who could stand up to Kenny, and protect Clem, AJ, and even Kenny himself from being frozen to death. I wish she hadn't done it in the way she did, but I do agree that she had to stop him somehow.
That's just the way I feel personally. I don't mean to be insulting to anyone and yeah I could be wrong. Can someone really understand the Godfather series or the character if he/she keeps repeating how much of a douche Pacino's character is and how much he dragged the series down? Can someone understand Taxi Driver if he/she hates De Niro's character and keeps repeating how much of a douche he was? Can someone understand Walking Dead if he hates Lee and keeps pointing out any and every controversial thing he done? To me it's the same with Kenny. Different perspectives to an extent yeah, but I think it's going too far when major elements of the series aren't really being appreciated or understood.
Im not one of those people who are like, "Season two was garbage, I hated it!" But I did think the Wellington thing was ree-diculous for the reasons you pointed out. Going back to Howes was the only thing that made sense to me out of the three options. It was a known quantity and it was a lot closer by. Once they got settled, maybe they could try to get more information about Wellington, but not just head off there blindly in a snowstorm with a friggen week old baby.
The idea that the writers portrayed Kenny as in the right for gambling everyone's lives to go to a safe haven he had no proof that even existed, with no sense of direction whatsoever, with little to no supplies, and in the middle of a freezing blizzard with no shelter from the cold, and giving his friends no choice but to go with him on what had appeared to be a suicide mission...actually kinda disturbs me a little.
Kenny is rewarded for his poor leadership skills, for his lack of regard for other people's well beings and opinions, for his poor rational thinking and planning skills, and for his stubborn refusal to control his anger, emotions, and take any kind of responsibility for his actions.
The more I look at Kenny's endings, the more I think that they remind me of this trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Glurge
@ KCohere
Yes. And don't forget that not only did Jane/Clem know the location of Howe's, but they also knew the building layout of it; they knew the entrances/exits; they knew who used to reside there, and approximately how malicious or benevolent these people were. None of this is known about Wellington, and lack of information about a place = more danger. Jane and Clem could use this information to observe Howe's properly and make a proper plan, scoping out who could be entering/exiting from the hardware store.
It's funny, because (even though we're not sure) it's suggested that the family we meet in the Howe's ending may have actually gone to Wellington, and also got turned away.
Randy says, "You been up north?" to which Clem replies, "Yeah," and Randy replies in a defeated voice, "Yeah, us too." As I say, we can't be sure, but it seems to me that this family did get to Wellington, but got turned away, just like Kenny got turned away. (Or it could also be that the family couldn't find Wellington at all.) If the family had actually been to Wellington, now we might actually have an exact location of Wellington pinpointed, if we're able to get this information from the family in the future. And from that, you can make a proper, better plan to journey to Wellington, if you so desire.
@ RichWalk23
I agree. And wow, that trope does embody Kenny's endings, almost too well.
I thought S2 was a great game. Im opposite of what your points were.
I don't mean to invalidate any points, but in S2, the travel times and locations altogether don't really make much sense to begin with. They start off in North Carolina. Christa makes note that it's late fall/early winter by this point, mentioning how they have 'a few hard months' ahead of them, and how the rain will eventually turn to snow. Clementine goes down the river, walks and eventually finds the cabin group.
5 days later, they're now in Virginia. Now they get taken back to Carver's camp. It's apparently close to where the cabin was, but also close enough for Carver to trek 5 days to find them. So they get taken back to this place, which seems a fair distance away (they get caught at night, episode 3 opens during the day, and they finally arrive at night. Also on the topic, Carver says they're about thirty minutes out, yet by the time they get to Howe's, its already pitch black out.) Luke also somehow manages to make his way there, and going off of locations, there is no humanly possible way he could make it to Howe's as soon as he did, unless he got in a car and drove. Another confusing part is why there's the beginning of a snow storm at the lodge, yet next to no sign of cold weather in Howe's.
Then we leave Howe's and go north, and a few days later, we're out on the road, somewhere presumably cold enough that there's already snowfall covering the entire area. Then Kenny and Jane drive a few hours in the middle of a blizzard all of the sudden, and Jane says it'd take no more than a day to get back to Howe's. Then when they go back to Howe's (which takes 9 days for some reason), there's no sign of snow, or winter weather at all. So where in the hell is Howe's? If it's close enough to reach in a day, why is there no sign of foul weather?
Furthermore, if we're assuming that Wellington is in the north, let's just say for the sake of it that Wellington's in in Ohio, that means that wherever they are in episode 5 has to be relatively close to it, going with the weather patterns. That would further confuse things, since that means that this group started out in the Virginia area, and somehow ended up in the northern states on foot, over the span of about ~3 days. With an exhausted, pregnant Rebecca in tow, how are they able to make that much distance per day on foot?
Oh yeah, even more confusing is the alone ending. Over the course of 9 days, nevermind where Clementine found baby formula and food, they're in sunny, blue sky plains with nice green grass. It's practically spring weather now. So where in the holy hell are they? Or more importantly, where the hell is Howe's located? Where is anything located? Because it's definitely not lining up to any existing maps that I know of.
As far as all the geographical stuff is concerned, S2 is kind of all over the place, literally and figuratively. I don't blame people for not wanting to completely adhere to real world geography, but at least check out your states first and see if the travel times and stuff make sense.
This is true. The locations are definitely all over the place, for sure. However, the fact remains that a part of the last season finale decision of this game depends on if the Wellington plan was a good one, or if the Howe's plan was a good one. The locations of Howe's and Wellington had to be considered (the game was clearly asking us to closely consider these locations) and the fact remains that the characters knew exactly where Howe's was, and they had no idea if Wellington actually existed, let alone its location. For the final decision, it doesn't really matter that we as the player didn't know where Howe's was (as in, its exact location in the US); all that matters is that it was close, and that the characters all definitely knew exactly how to get there.
I believe she meant it'd take just one day to get back to Howe's using the truck they had. Not one day by walking.
No man, everyone hates him because Lee might be an urban.
S2 was great. Just because it wasn't as good as S1 (imo) doesn't make it a bad game at all.
Well sorry if this has offended you sialark but it just seemed like you were to me
That's fine, its good to find scenes that doesn't seem to have been discussed much. I have no problem with that. I just would have liked something from another perspective perhaps from another scene also.
Lol well congrats on converting him/her, that's surprised me to be honest. Was he/she a Kenny fan? Or just someone who maybe didn't like Jane at first? Like do they now hate Kenny and like Jane after you changed their mind?
Please don't take this the wrong way, you see this sounds to me like you are trying to deliberately change people's views when you say you "successfully" changed their opinion and saying you don't see why you can't do it again, i mean that's fine if that's what you want to do but i actually don't want to change people's minds about Kenny, even if my posts sound like they do, because if everyone agreed on the same thing then the world would be a very boring place right? I just want people to see things from my perspective if they don't already, not asking them to change their minds. I'd love to sit round a table with all of you guys in person and discuss everything because i can probably make it clearer than i do on here.
Again i'm sorry if that wasn't the case from you but it just sounded like it was
Good find comparing the scene in the woods and when they spoke at the picnic table, i liked that. I noticed she said "Well it's sometimes good to have someone watching your back" but the sometimes line is probably not important but could imply she still prefers to be on her own lol.
Jane's still very much a loner though and i still question what she would do if something happened where Clem/AJ were in danger. If her own life was at risk would she try and save them? I'm not so sure because she made that clear with Sarah when she insisted on leaving her at the trailer. Even letting the timer run out after the deck collapsed and her going to save her, Clem can still have the option to say "don't pretend your sorry, you didn't even want to save her", pretty sure that's what the line is. I won't forget that which is why i wonder if she'd be reluctant if Clem or AJ were in danger. I know she saved Clem from the freezing water and that was a risk but what if there was a situation where they were surrounded by walkers and Jane was the only one nearest to being able to escape safely but Clem/AJ weren't? It just makes me wonder. However i stand by what I've always said, i think Jane sees Clementine as a replacement for her sister, she cares for Clem in that sense yes and the good points i mentioned in the other post about her reflect that but at the same time would she risk her own life for her and the baby if it came down to it? I'm not so sure.
Hey @sialark, I agreed with all your post, until you did all the math. You calculated how much time it would take Kenny, Clem and A.J. to find Wellington in Michigan, but I always thought that the Wellington Christa and Kenny were talking about was the real-life Village in Ohio (I did some research back in the day). You can read about it on their official website and on Wikipedia's article.
So I assumed that Wellington was a bit like Woodbury (not in the sense that a madman is the leader), as both of them would be fortified towns. And I thought it was odd that Kenny nor Christa had a map in which they had located Wellington.
Thats true, I did like S1 better but I enjoyed S2
I don't hate Kenny, but there are some parts of season 1 and 2 that I wish I could have taken that RV with Lilly.
Hello BetterToSleep--yes, I'm aware that Wellington, Ohio exists. However, Kenny states that Wellington is a camp "near Michigan" and that's literally all we know about its location.
Going from that, I started my calculations for Michigan, as I assumed that Kenny would head towards Michigan as his starting point. Not Ohio, as no one in the game ever says anything about Ohio.
This doesn't change the fact that Kenny did not know of its existence on a map. He doesn't say it's a camp "in Ohio." It's pretty clear throughout the season that no character the player comes across knows exactly where it is. Even Carver thinks of it as some "Shangri-La," meaning, a mythical paradise:
and you'd think he as a leader in an established community would have the resources to look it up on a map, or maybe even attempt to figure out where it was (if it was another community, it could possibly pose a future threat to Howe's, so I don't see why he wouldn't look into it.) In addition, Christa seems to be the logical prepared type who would show Clementine where Wellington was on a map, and you'd think if you played as Clementine supporting the Wellington idea, she'd bring up Wellington's existence on a map to try to convince the others in the group. However, she has the option to yell at Kenny, "There's nothing out here!" showing Clementine has no evidence of its existence either.
Clem never does bring up its existence on a map, and Kenny never indicates that he has any other tangible information about its location either (if he did, wouldn't he bring it up to convince the others to go there?) If Wellington was on a map (and they knew it was on a map), and if Kenny/Clem actually brought that up as one of their points for arguing that Wellington was a real place to go, then I highly doubt there would have been as much strife and debate as there was in the group, which eventually led to its destruction.
Kenny even admits that what he knows is just based off of rumors
and he even says that it might be bullshit.
He did not know where it was.
But to keep things consistent, I repeated the calculations but had them search through Ohio instead of Michigan (Ohio is 44,825 sq km), so after just replacing that number, it comes out that they'd need 9 weeks, or 63 days, to search through all of Ohio. That's still a significant amount of time--7 times longer than indicated in the game, and I still wouldn't chance walking around for that amount of time in freezing weather and blizzards with a newborn baby with walkers and bandits about, and no food and one gun.
Really I just think this is just a gaping plot hole the story had to have in order for the plot to make sense, and to have all this conflict happen in the first place. It's unfortunate, but that's the way they chose to write the story.
Yes, Wellington could have been a fortified version of a town from before the zombie apocalypse. However, it could also have been a different kind of camp (Kenny calls it a "big camp" when describing it, not a "town.") Given its exterior with all the shipping crates:
I'm guessing it wasn't ever a town, but it miiiight just be a fortified shipping yard, something like this, but surrounded by a wall:
In addition, we can't be sure that this settlement where Edith is is actually Wellington, Ohio. The shipping containers have the words "Wellington Global Shipping" on them:
and this was found by Deltino in the game files:
however, this can't confirm that this settlement is in Wellington, Ohio; it just happens to have the name "Wellington" in it. It would be like coming across a warehouse in Kansas that has the New York & Company women's clothing logo on it, but New York City is no where near that actual warehouse.
Also, sorry if all the screenshots are annoying or if it seems I'm beating some points to death.
Sometimes I feel like I'm spamming but I just want to make a point. >.<
No please, the screenshots are alright! They probably shouldn't, but I feel like they give a bit more credibility to your post.
Yeah, it does seem like it would take them a lot less effort to find Wellington if knowing where it is was as easy as pinpointing it on a map. And who knows, it might be a shipping container company! Do those have cranes, by the way?
I think we can agree on a couple of things, though. It's pretty unrealistic that Kenny, Clem and A.J. found Wellington in nine days having no idea where it could be.
Also, how are Christa, Carver and Kenny all supposed to know about Wellington's existence when it's up near Michigan? Christa and Clem were in North Carolina when they were talking about getting more wood. Howe's Hardware is supposed to be in Tennessee. Moonstar Lodge is in the Blue Ridge Mountains, Virginia.
Also, the dialog with Matthew can go like this, implying that there's a lot more people coming from the South that go to Wellington:
And I don't think them recruiting is the reason that the word spread that fast, considering that they're overpopulated. Or perhaps they sent a ton of people recruiting everywhere down South, but overestimated their capacity, and found themselves with a bunch of hangry people on their doorstep.
I can't wait to find out in Season three!
Sometimes you just find a gem of a post, and this is certainly one of them.
@ IronWoodLover
A question for you: when do you think you realized you disliked Kenny? You said a year passed before you changed your mind, but do you know what it was exactly that did change your mind or why things may have changed for you?
I don't care for Kenny since Starved for Help and I would have gladly swapped him for Katjaa and Duck for a little while.
This summer when I replayed the game.
I tried to pay more atention to the chracters and their actions. I tried to understand why they were doing what they are doing.
Now, back when No Going Back was realeased when I saved Kenny and, when I saw that Jane had planned it all, all I thought was "she is manipulative and she brought this to herself", I didn't even worried about asking myself why did Jane hide the baby. I remember being such a Kenny fanboy that I could ignore everything he did just because his "good intentions" made it all up!
Now when I did my replay I payed more atention to jane character and well, I liked her as a character a lot. Then when playing episode 5 i finally decided to see Jane's POV:
With that said it's clear that Jane knew that Kenny couldn't be controled and that she needed to get away from him. The only problem is that a person she cared about seemed to want to keep following that dude (because the game didn't gave us the option to express our dislike of him).
So yes after thinking about it for a while Jane had every reason to want Clem away from Kenny. The whole "the baby died" arc happened due Clem being unable to express her dislike for Kenny so it's also understandable that she did that to show Clem that Kenny is a monster.
So yes above all I used to "love" Kenny so much because I had a tunneled vision that only could see Kenny's point of view. I would get any excuses just to accept Kenny's monstrous acts, such as:
(Crap, i divagated a lot xP)
But yeah above all I had an obession for Kenny, and that made me ignore human values and other people's vision of things. I'm glad that i got to change my mind and I hope that I've lernt to never get that obsessed for a character.
I found there was plenty of time were you can tell Kenny to go **** himself, him and his ideas. Sure the other characters assume we were friends but I keep correcting them about the nature of our relationship. No, Walter I wasn't really close to Kenny or telling him Wellington is just another one of his pipe dream in NGB.
did somebody say URBAN???? (lol jk jk)
I dont think you can say anything that severe to Kenny. Its not like when Lee and Ben told him off (and I cheered)
I wish that was an actual option.
so do I
Example: Episode 3.
Kenny: 'Do you trust me Clementine?'
Options: 'I trust you' 'I'm scared' 'This is a bad plan'.
No option to say 'No Kenny, I don't trust you.'
And the entire Jane situation at the end of episode 5 relies on the assumption that Clementine is attached to Kenny in some way, which mine wasn't, due to him refusing to help save her.