Season 2 Was the Weakest Telltale Waking Dead Story
Does anyone else agree?
I'm sure many would agree with Season 1 being much better than the sequel, but I also found the 400 Days DLC and the Michonne miniseries to be more interesting than Season 2. Part of the problem for me I think is that Clementine was a poor protagonist. A child protagonist is just a lot less interesting than an adult, and it creates issues with both the story and other characters in that too much responsibility is being placed on a child's shoulders. It makes every adult character around her see like an incompetent idiot.
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The first two episodes (especially A House Divided) was on par with Season 1 IMO. However the rest of the season and the entirety of the season itself was not even half of what S1 was. The Michonne series was only barely better than Amid The Ruins and No Going Back (two terrible episodes IMO).
I respectfully disagree. I actually loved S2, for the reason you didn't. Playing as Clementine was awesome, imo, and I really liked the story that was S2. The intelligence, bravery, and humanity shown by Clementine was a thing to behold.
Season 2 much better than Michonne game imo. Better characters generally, more memorable and developed characters (Michonne game was way too fast moving and didn't even feel like a TellTale WD game at times). 400 days is arguable. Some storylines and moments are on par with Season 1 and some are closer to season 2 level. Shel's story was fantastic. Nate/Russell's story was great too. The eerie atmosphere and horror of Wyatt's story was awesome.
I honestly can't remember how I felt about S2 but I know that Amid The Ruins was their worst episode because of Sarah's death, Jane teaching Clem things she already knew, Nick not being able to do much but die, and Arvo's group encounter even if didn't steal from him. And as for S2 Clementine, I think that they didn't bring out her full character as much as they should have had. For me I found that I liked S1 Clem's character rather then S2 Clem. True S2 Clem did alot more then S1 Clem which I liked. But anyway S1 I found more interesting then S2. S2 choices mattered a bit more, but not my much. And I was disapointed by the 400 days characters since they didn't do much.
I have to disagree I thought Clementine being a Protagonist was well done and thought out. We got to see her mature and use the things Lee taught her from Season 1, she went from a somewhat fearful little girl to a independent self reliant teen with leadership skills and being able to act quickly in tough situations.
you are 100% correct
How dare you, the Waking Dead s2 episode 3 of Lazarus being woken up was riveting.
I really do not agree I loved season 1 and 2 also Michonne
I wasnt that crazy about 400 days it was a joke and out of it I only like Bonnie Shel
and Becca I did not care for the rest
I agree that Clementine just simply was a very poor choice as a protagonist. Compared to the other Walking Dead protagonists of Lee and Michonne she is just super bland and dull. I also much prefer playing as an adult, being able to swear and [Punch] options.
No, I think S2 was great and it was because Clementine was the protagonist and is such an amazing character. I think people put S1 on a pedestal because it was their first Telltale game/choice based game. People nitpick S2 to death, but don't seem to care about the flaws in S1.
I disagree completely, but whatev.
Another thing to note is that Season 1 had everything to work with, and could pull from any zombie story plot device that it wanted to and still be fresh, since the game is choice based. I think Season 2 kind of lacked because it didn't have much of anything new or any fresh approach, and kind of just kept with Season 1's theme of "survival", but in a more basic way.
You don't really have to make a thread about something that seems like most people agree with. However I thought S2 was great and Clem was just as good a protagonist as Lee.
Nah, but I expected more from ep 4. It dissapoints me though.
But at least in Season 1 we could influence what characters felt about Lee and those characters had personalities that didn't change to suit the plot.
The season simply degraded into obscurity once they made Clem echo Kenny's stupid sub-plot of saving a baby that would've realistically died during childbirth and had no connection to her or her internal struggle, which by the way was actual fairly interesting and needed no detour.
I find that the last episode was probably the single most lacking experience I've had in a game in a long time. The blatant "safe" choices that TT made is almost sickening. A Quentin Tarantino film without the deaths or cussing, a GTA game where you play as a soup kitchen volunteer, a stale understated step so far in the wrong direction, I'm truly surprised the developers didn't trip up and make Clementine into a white redneck with a beard and an eyepatch and call her fucking Clenny or some shit.
Ugh, just thinking about No Going Back makes me infuriated... If you'll excuse me, I'm going back to play Doom and rid my memory of that god awful episode.
Oh this again...
Cmon dude did you not see the episode of GoT or FTWD yesterday? There's no time to stress over season two anymore.
WINTER IS ALMOST EFFIN HERE MAN
Nope. Completely disagree. You can play as an adult in a ZA on some of the other hundreds of games, but TT S2 did something unique and was very well done. It's all about hopelessness and vulnerability in TWD. So who better to play as than a child we all know and love (most of us anyway). We were put in so many interesting and horrifying situations as Clementine. Along with characters that anyone could relate to, even if some of their stories ended abruptly. I call all of that damn good writing and on par with S1.
Well there've only been two TWD Telltale stories so far, but I actually like them both. I love how innovative it was to play as an 11 year old girl, and I love Clementine's character. I can't wait to see how they integrate your final decision into season 3.
I think, Season 2 started off with a great first episode that was really on par with season 1.
But the episode's after that, just felt rushed to me, and contained allot of bad writing the way how the other characters threated a child.
Like always wanting Clementine to solve everything, escaping Carver's camp for example,i think was really poor writing. Cause if that rope was able to not break when Clementine was being lift up to the roof.
It would have been perfectly fine to hold someone like Jane for example and let her be the one being lift up to the roof cause that would have made allot more sense.
And turning off a wind-turbine while there where three adults, standing next to her.
I didn't have a problem with playing as a child instead of a adult as some other people have, for me it was the fact.
That they in my opinion really wrote unreallistic situations concerning what the adult character's expected her to do.
Also i didn't like the fact they killed off each character we met, and that we where forced to be friends with Kenny ( in some other people's case Jane.).
And that our dialouge choices really didn't change much, what other characters would respond back, or how other characters would think of Clementine.
Because with Lee, depending on your dialouge choice and actions, you could be either friends with a character or be eachothers worst enemies.
With Clementine, whatever i did all characters kept behaving the same towards her, except Bonnie but that was only in the last episode ( and she had a very dumb reason, for being rude to Clem).
Also whatever you say to Rebecca in ep1, I for example, told her i knew her secret, and that it would be best if she should be nicer, which pissed her off.
But in the next episode out of nowhere, Rebecca acts like she is Clementine's best friend which was another example of really lazy writing in my opinion.
Although I do agree there are many things wrong with Season 2, I just cringe everytime someone complains about Clementine doing all the work or whatever. Seriously, wouldn't it be boring if all the adults did everything and Clem just sat there the whole time picking her boogers? They do look a little incompetent at times, but I wouldn't trade the few puzzles or actual gameplay scenes we got in S2 just for a little more realism in a zombie game.
For example, while at Carver's camp, it totally would have made more sense for Clem to have a lesser role in finding a way out. But, as players, would we have been happy just sitting near the fire for 2 hours talking to Sarita and Reggie? It's just a bunch of pros and cons, I guess. Just thought I'd throw my two cents in.
Actually, this one is explained in the episode. Rebecca mentions that the winch breaks all the time and wouldn't support much weight. That's backed up by an event earlier in the episode, where you see Jane trying to lift a bag of soil up with the winch, only for it to break and drop the bag. So going off of that, that makes Clementine the best choice, since she's the only one light enough to climb the winch. Sarah is potentially light enough, but you'd be kidding yourself if you think that Sarah of all people could do something like this without getting caught. So by process of elimination, for better or for worse, Clementine is the best possible candidate they have.
I got flamed for agreeing with the title of this discussion, despite it actually being the more common opinion.
I didn't think about that good for pointing that out
But even if that is the case i still think, they should have looked for another opportunity to escape Carver´s camp.
Cause in my opinion, not one adult in his right mind would be ok with such a plan like lifting up a child to the roof off a hardware store to help them escape.
Because in my opinion it is still a, very unreallistic written situation.
Well i'd rarther have had, the 2-hour long campfire scene....
Because, i dont like playing as a character whose actions, i cant take serious.
I personally prefer realisme, over some puzzles or gameplay scene's that dont make sense.
But each their own opinion i guess
absolutely agreed, season 2 was the worst, season 1 built up so much which season 2 ruined in every way!
It definitely wasn't as good as Season 1 but I didn't dislike it either.
Problem is, in S1 it was the exact same thing with Lee and the only reason no one complains is because he was a grown up, as "unrealistic" as him doing everything still was. Besides, if anyone expected TTG to do a complete makeover on how they make their games just because we where controlling a younger character they really didn't think that through. There's a difference between wanting more character development and actually wanting to sit around the whole game. On top of that, I don't think it's that stupid, really. While at Carver's, she was one of the few people who were mentally or physically up for the task. Jane and Mike? I didn't know these fuckers. Kenny? No, thanks. Nick was like a placeholder at that point. Carlos was gone most of the episode. Rebecca, Sarah, Sarita? Uhh. . I'll pass. Yeah, I would probably trust Clem, too.
I do respect your opinion, though. Nice getting some feedback!
Well Lee didn't do everything we had Lilly, who kept the group together and who tought everyone how to handle a gun, and made sure everyone got a fair share off the food-ration.
We had Doug who made a alarm-system to warn them for walkers and other people.
Edit: What i meant to say was, comparing Lee as a protagonist to Clementine as a protagonist.
Not comparing both of the games
By your logic, we had Pete and Nick who would go fishing for the group. We had Luke who went scavenging with Pete. We had Carlos who took care of keeping the medicine safe and was the doctor.
Really, what you pointed out doesn't make much more sense. I still can't figure out exactly what changed in S2 in your opinion.
Also, aren't we all comparing both seasons......?
Kind of a bold statement there.
Well what changed in my opinon was that, they made Clementine do allot of things that where really unrealistic.
I already proved to you that nothing really "changed". Even in S1, Lilly makes Lee do her dirty work whether you're on good terms with her or not. I don't know why it took you 2 full seasons to realize the burden always falls on the protagonist. Child or not.
True your right we are comparing both seasons.
But my first language isn't english so i sometimes make mistakes in my posts.
But i think the situation from Lee as a PC cant be compared to Clementine in S2.
Because playing as Lee from my point of view always made sense.
Okay. I understand.
I can live with that. That's simply your opinion. Nothing I can do about it.
Alright i respect your opinion to
Good talk, man.
I liked it. Not sure what I'd call it the weakest, though. I mean yeah, I don't think it was as good as S1, but I don't think it was that bad, either. There's a rather vocal amount of people that seem to act like S2 is an absolute mockery of everything S1 stood for, which I honestly think is a complete and utter overreaction. And I'm almost certain that those people are just a vocal minority. S2 is still held in good standing just about everywhere I've looked. Most people that have done walkthroughs/LP's of it liked it and/or had a positive opinion of it, and most user reviews across the net (Steam, Metacritic, App Store, etc etc) are generally positive. The common opinion of S2 in general (or basically, everywhere that isn't this forum for whatever reason) is "It's a good game. Not as great as S1, but still good" and most of the criticisms tend to be related to characters and choices in particular.
If this forum was to be believed, S2 should be sitting in the low yellow/red on Metacritic, 3 stars and under on the app store and other marketplaces like it (xbox live, PSN, etc), and be sitting at Mostly Positive or Mixed on Steam. But that doesn't look to be the case, so yeah.
Anyways, if I had to choose which one I'd personally consider the weakest, I think I'd go with 400 Days. There were some good stories that came out of it, and it was a good piece of supplementary content, but it definitely wasn't as gripping as the other three series so far (S1, S2, Michonne), nor did it offer as much in the way of substance as those three did. Which is understandable, since it isn't technically a full series or meant to be much more than a one-off thing. Still, all things considered, I'd consider it the weakest.
It didn't took me two full seasons to realize the burden always, falls on the protagonist.
But i think the way they wrote those scene's where, way more reallistic playing as Lee, then playing as Clementine.
Let me give you an, example when you go out off the pharmacy in season 1 you don't go alone, Also Glenn and Carley help Lee on his mission of saving the girl from the hotel.
As Clementine, you play as a 11-year old child, who they lift up to a roof, without any help of other characters while being on the roof and searching for the walkie-talkie or the PA system.
Also, I have nothing against playing as Clementine like i said in a previous post in this topic, because i actually enjoyed playing ep1 of S2.
But unreallistic scene's like the escape from Carver's camp and the wind-turbine scene where a big reason, why i didn't enjoy playing the rest of the episodes.
Anyway, i just wanted to post this
because i noticed i didn't explain well, in my posts yesterday why i think playing as Lee made more sense to me.
I don't think having the playable character as a kid was the reason why, to be honest. There was so much interesting paths the writers could've taken with the surrounding cast and Clementine herself, I feel like them trying to be unpredictable is what messed the season up. Telltale were even on some of these good paths, in my opinion, like the Luke and Kenny rivalry. If it had been Luke instead of Jane at the end, and written to fit Luke's character, it would've been a nice path. Kind of like an uncle-figure vs a brother-figure instead of an uncle-figure vs edgy loner #2435432.