Jane and Kenny... Could they have buried the hatchet?
First off, if you're here to bash on Kenny or Jane, please take it somewhere else. That's not what this is about.
Meaning, I'm hoping nobody posts things like:
"Oh, Kenny's a total dumbass! His plan would've got them all killed! He only cares about AJ, hurr-dee-dur!"
or
"Jane's a f@$%ing bitch! She was only trying to manipulate Clem for her own personal gain! It's her fault she got pregnant and killed herself, hur-dee-dee!"
No. None of that, please.
I know that Jane and Kenny both had a rough go of it in season 2, and that the ending seemed to solidify their huge dislike of each other.
But I could still spot out hints; little tidbits here and there showing that, had the argument in the truck that escalated the tensions leading up to their fight not taken place, that they might've tried to work things out a little more. Kenny admits that Clem might be right about Jane if you suggest for him to give her some time to warm up to her, recalling the time spent with Lee in the previous season. Jane, although comparing him to Carver, acknowledges that the guy can be nice, and if you catch it after they spin out in the snow, Jane's on the brink of apologizing before the fisherman says they need to look for diesel. Add to the fact that Kenny asks if she's alright when they do come to that abrupt stop, and you can tell that neither character is completely heartless.
So, my question to you guys is this - do you guys think that, had some significant amount of time passed, that Kenny and Jane would've been able to reconcile after something like that? Yeah, whatever brittle amount of trust they may have had for each other might've shattered after their fight, but I think that if there was ever going to be a saving grace for the two of them, I think it really would've boiled down to one thing.
Clementine. They both cared about the girl, and had different ways of going about showing how much they did. And honestly, I think that little girl would've been the one thing that kept them from tearing each other's heads off again. It would take a very long time, obviously, and Clem would be more than pissed with the both of them, but maybe they'd be able to learn from their mistakes.
I've seen a few people on here mention this before, a scenario where the four of them (including AJ) survived together into season 3. Where do you think they would've ended up? Would they have kept going north, south, or maybe try to find some sort of middle ground until they got a lay of the land?
Anyways, I'm just curious as to what you guys think about something like this. Do you think a team-up of them would even be possible? Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but after seeing both of them get killed off so early on, I started wondering at the different scenarios.
I don't know if this has been talked about before in a different thread, but I want to throw in my two cents. Sometimes it seems like even talking about these two in the same sentence sparks a massive controversy, when realistically, I think they were two of the stars of season 2 (I'd include Luke in this too, but... he's kind of ice fishing right now... Don't kill me, please xD)
Comments
They were two different people. Kenny was more traditional, while Jane was... well, Jane.
When they had an idea, they'd stick with it. Kenny was assertive and Jane was a non-conformist. They were never going to agree on anything.
I think that this was absolutely possible. Both of them had their best interest of keeping AJ and Clem alive at heart, but they were disagreeing on how to deal with the situation they're in. If they would somehow avoid that extreme situation they would probably reach Wellington. Then, they would turn around and leave with supplies in order to go back to Howe's where they would rebuild the place and maybe would start their own community out there. Clem would take care of AJ, Jane would find a way how to deal with her pregnancy and Kenny would become a cool one-eyed leader.
Then, by S3 writers logic TNF would come and destroy the community, Kenny would teach Clem how to drive while Jane would sit with AJ on back seat. Then that crash would happen and them both would heroically die by shouting "Not today you sunovabitches" as Clem runs away.
Jane was too upset because Kenny drove the entire rest of the group away and was responsible for Luke's death.
Their fight would happen sooner or later.
That's fair
It kind of reminded me of the Lilly-Kenny arguments from before, except those were probably more understandable - being about food, meds, and whether or not the motor-inn was worth staying at.
This one just seemed a little bit too forced to me. It didn't really have the build-up that it needed for it to work. It's almost as if they just woke up one day and went, "Ok. You're an asshole."
Definitely would've made for an interesting walk back home though, lemme tell ya. I'd imagine Clem would have to keep between Kenny and Jane for a good, long while.
I mean, it'd happen before they ever reconciliated.
I'm going to say yes they could have, but it would have taken AJ being out of the picture, perhaps if he was placed in a secure place and Clementine stepping up to solve their differences.
But at the very essence of it, it's just that Jane doesn't trust groups and Kenny doesn't function in them. I don't think they would have had to necessarily be direct enemies if it wasn't for their conflicting goals.
I would've loved for that to happen, honestly. Combining the Wellington and Howe's ending while eventually trying to set up their own community would've given episode 5 a ton of bang for its buck. Can you imagine the choice possibilities though, too? Having a say in what went on around Howe's while also trying to keep Jane and Kenny on the straight path... or not, if you wanted to watch the place burn >:D And yeah! Kenny obviously knows how to deal with babies, and Jane having to ask for help after all that they'd been through together would be awkward AF.
Hahaha, yeah, no kidding xD I don't think Clem has the best driving record at the moment...
Kenny being responsible for Luke's death is technically determinant and even then, Jane is definitely the catalyst of that and several others things that go wrong in No Going Back.
Really though, Luke's death was an environmental hazard.
Many think that if Kenny wasn't beating Arvo around, he'd not have freaked out and wouldn't have run away, not causing the frozen lake to give in and causing his and Bonnie's death (determinant)
You've got a good point there. AJ was a huge spark of tension between the two of them, and I'd like to think that it wouldn't be quite as hostile if it hadn't boiled down to that. Maybe if they had given him to Wellington? At the same time, though, I'm not so sure Clem would be ready to give him up to a group of strangers, and even though Kenny begs Edith to take the kids, the thought of leaving a baby with a group of strangers would probably be pretty challenging.
Had he eventually agreed to it though, maybe they could've recovered. I'd like to think so.
Honestly, I think they would've have a falling out eventually regardless. If they followed Jane's idea, Kenny could likely get upset at the limited results; if they followed Kenny's idea, they would've been stuck with each other if they didn't split up afterwards. Even in the alternative scenarios where everyone left got along and Kenny was able to agree to a plan with Mike, Bonnie, and maybe even Luke(and/or maybe Arvo for bonus points), you'd likely get the same results except extenuated: either they'd go to Howe's and have marginally less food to go around, making their trip pointless due to being shorter in lifespan or everyone would arrive at Wellington and say their goodbyes to Clementine and AJ before eventually turning their peeved attention to Kenny.
Their personalities definitely would've clashed with each other, that's for sure. Maybe Clem being there wouldn't be enough, but having characters carry over and not just get erased almost immediately in the next season would've made it pretty interesting, I think.
Better a falling out than a sort of "duel to the death" that left a bunch of people in a rotten mood for a time, I guess. I always wondered though, if Luke had still lived, whether or not the whole group would've fallen apart like it did. After all, that only added to the whole Arvo controversy that went down, and seemed to have that kind of domino effect where everything just spiraled out of control.
Clementine didn't really have a relationship towards AJ that the player couldn't determine at that point though, I don't see anything in her character that would make her distrustful of Wellington unless that's how a person played her.
Maybe a good thing though, seeing what happened to Wellington in the end.
You're right, but keeping determinants alive and getting development costs too much for TTG.
I know and while I understand they're pointing fingers for a tragedy, I never really thought that made that much sense.
But I agree with you that there's no way to know that,
Well, shooting at them right off the bat might not have made the best first impression xD I know they were just being cautious, and that Kenny was willing to cooperate in the hope that they'd all get a place to stay, but I'm not so sure I'd want to hand an infant off to a group after that. You're right, though - Clem doesn't always have to have a positive outlook on AJ, and if they figured that a secure place with walls, food and supplies was a suitable enough area for him to grow up in, then it'd definitely be possible.
Haha, yeah, no kidding, huh? It all went to hell pretty quickly!
It's all about that cheddar in the end, huh
$$$
Honestly their rivalry seemed kind of forced. They didn't interact enough before episode 5. Kenny's all like, "Jane's got no respect!"
And i'm like you haven't even shared a line of dialogue with her before this ep, Kenny
Of course they would've buried the hatchet......
....in each other.
I was waiting for this, but I couldn't bring myself to post it
Probably. After all, everyone but Bonnie had their issues with Kenny while Jane was very accepted by everyone (for some reason). Maybe Luke being there could help provide a motivation about why one place is for the best due to the issue of his leg being injured and the availability of supplies that could help deal with it.
To be fair, I think this was inevitable. They were BOTH just too strong willed, and too willing to fight instead of backdown when they thought they were in the right. Something was bound to happen at some point if they had stayed together, regardless.
Plus to your earlier point about the conflict being forced, I seem to remember shortly after S2E5 came out, that some of the devs/writers made the statement that they intentionally tried to make the player feel conflicted, and drove Kenny way over the top. The reason being, was to try and give Jane a fighting chance of having players pick her, instead of everybody just siding with Kenny due to nostalgia. So they basically wrote in the "Arvo-Factor". Kenny kicking the crap out of this kid and being completely closed-minded during E4&5.
Wish I had a link to where that was posted
I think that if Clem took an opportunity to tell Jane that Kenny is basically family, then she might not have judged him so harshly and tried to push a confrontation at the rest stop.
I don't think they'd ever get along, but maybe learn to tolerate each other.
Oh, they'd bury the hatchet all right...In their skulls
Yeah, I really wish they gave us that option! Instead it was basically either you were with Jane on the idea that Kenny was too far gone, or you tried to defend him and apparently "are just like him"... Seemed a little harsh, I mean, give the guy a break every once in a while.
Yeah. Luke was kind of the group's rock in a way. I feel like he would've tried to lighten the mood and, like Clem, try to keep a level head about what they had to do next. Pretty sure whatever semblance of a "group" died with him, drowned in the bottom of the icy lake
And hey, maybe they would've ended up stopping by that church that Clem had spotted earlier, since moving for even longer distances with that bum leg probably would've made it even worse.
Yeah, that's true. It really came out of nowhere. Everyone was so certain that by the end it was going to be between Kenny and Luke, which made a little more sense, I think, but they really should've made it so that they talked more in the previous episodes.
Clem: Umm... Jane? I don't know how to tell you this, but uhh... you got a little something there... in your face.
Jane: D-don't be silly! I feel fine!
xD
That's honestly all I'd ask them for, at the start, anyways. I'd hope that Clem would maybe be able to bridge the gap eventually.
I think we've learned to never trust either of them with sharp objects at this point.
Edit: Maybe this would be a good representation of Kenny and Jane near the end!
I think it's possible. If things didn't escalate the way they did, or if another member of the group was still alive to diffuse the situation, then I don't know if they'd grow to like each other, but I think they'd learn to put their differences aside for Clem and AJ's sake.
I would've loved for something like that to happen. It's one thing to have a fight to the death, but coming back from that and forcing yourselves to put that grudge behind you for the sake of the kids would be pretty deep.
Aaaand now they sound like a married couple - a very dysfunctional one, anyways xD
I found the whole thing really forced and shoehorned and just there for the pointless finale. I don't understand why Telltale insist on these loose shoehorned type of rivalries.
I think if Jane hadn't pulled her little stunt with Aj things could've worked out differently.
Then again, TTG probably would've made it so that Kenny attacks Jane anyway.
Even that didn't really start until the end of ep 4
Yeah you had to pick between Luke and Kenny in ep 2, but come on. That was pretty silly
You know the name of the game it's never going to end up safe and secure anywhere. There's going to be lots of dying, rivalries and bickering.
I think they would still argue and not get along, but I don't think that their dislike for each other would get to the point where they'd leave the other one to die.