A interesting german interview about many things we discuss here
With Job Stauffer from Telltale.
I can't translate everything in english (maybe Google translate help you) but the main part is:
"You can't change the story of a Telltale game"
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Wait, now he says Clementine is 14?
The timeline is confusing me.
Not even gonna comment on the rest...
Oh well goodbye Telltale
The hell... Where's the english version?
If if anybody wants it translated here you go:
Telltale Games has just released the third season of this video game series The Walking Dead. As in the two parts before, the players' decisions have little impact on the story - although one will always feel that it is so. Telltale-Kreativchef Job Stauffer has explained to us why many of his games misunderstand.
The games of Telltale are considered as the general overhauls of classic adventure games from the 90s. Probably because the studio was founded in 2004 by former employees of Lucas Arts, the legendary forge of many such titles. But in talks with Telltales Kreativchef Jobstauffer quickly realizes that his colleagues and he is not looking for their inspiration in Monkey Island or Day of the Tentacle, but in Hollywood.
Instead of riddles, the characters are at the center in Telltale games. It is about their development and about telling a story with them, without the players constantly sticking to tricky puzzles and in the worst case giving up. In the interview with WIRED, Stauffer explains why his company's games are more related to a role-playing game like Dungeons & Dragons than with point-and-click adventures.
Job Stauffer
Telltale Games
WIRED: What will be most important in the future for telling stories in video games?
Job Stauffer: That games are classified into categories such as comedy, horror or the like. For 30 years, the industry has sorted its titles according to the mechanics: games are called shooter, roller-play, racing game, platformer or real-time strategy. This, however, only defines how players interact with the content on a mechanical level. If you look at films, television, comics and books, then the genres are defined according to the types of stories. Their content is at the center. It is important to me that the game industry takes stories so seriously that they define the genre. We should cease to regard the narrative as secondary.
WIRED: So all games should be classified differently, not just Adventures?
Stauffer: Not all games. Because not all need a story. This is the great power and magic of interactive entertainment. The game industry still has a lot of space to grow, to mature, to discover itself and to pursue new paths. We at Telltale love games and stories as much as we love films and comics. We stand by the overlap of all this. Conventions must be rediscovered and defined. And we are glad to be there.
WIRED: While in classic adventures, you have to combine items and solve puzzles, you will be more and more distracted. Why?
Stauffer: We grew up with adventure games. Half the studio has spent a lot of his life with them. Many come from Lucas Arts and have created some of the best adventure games of all time, like co-founder Kevin Bruner, who has worked on Grim Fandango. One issue for us, however, was always that it is hard to get more people to play classic adventures. They are enthusiastic about the story, but it comes to a halt when the players no longer understand what they are supposed to do. They do not manage to open a certain door or to cross a labyrinth. Finally, they need six hours to get to the next scene, to the next dialogue.
We want to lower the entry barriers for players and focus on the action
WIRED: And that's a problem?
Job Stauffer: For people who have grown up with it, it is a lot of fun. But the best thing about Adventures are the relationships between the characters and the storytelling. That is why we want to lower the entry barriers for players and focus on the action. We focus on making decisions instead of on puzzle and logic puzzles. And so want to keep the interactive experience at a pace that resembles film and television.
WIRED: In Telltale Adventures, the player has to press the same button in case of danger. He or she can not influence the result. The interaction thus becomes a pure illusion. Why do you do that?
Stauffer: At the beginning of each game we show a message. It says that it is an interactive story that is tailor-made to the decisions made by you. The word tailor-made is very specific here: when two people buy the same suit, they still have different sizes. When we write an interactive story, we know where to start and where to end it. By and large, we all have the same suit, but it was adapted to each individual.
DISPLAY
WIRED: If your games are not about decisions, what is the point?
Stauffer: UnseRe games are more than adventures, they have plenty of a rolling game. If we allow the player to control a protagonist and interact with different characters in the story, he or she has the ability to define the character himself. We allow him to play as an asshole or as a nice guy - but only to the extent that it is still within the framework set by us. It's a bit like Dungeons & Dragons. Someone just has to tell you that you are a dwarf from the north and that this is your ax. And then you can play the character with these prerequisites as you want.
WIRED: How does this show up in your games?
Stauffer: In The Walking Dead, you play an African history teacher in his mid-thirties, who becomes a substitute for a girl named Clementine. It's your decision, what you want to teach her. Whether it is the value of the community, survival or self-reliance. They are your ideals that you give to this non-playable character. And in the second season you play this nine-year-old girl during the zombie apocalypse. And based on what you gave her in the first season, you can control her in the second season. This allows players to define a character as they would play it.
Many fans do not understand that our games are not about what happens on the screen, but in your mind and heart
WIRED: The story never really changes, but only the character character of the protagonists.
Stauffer: Yes, in the third season of Walking Dead you play as a completely new character. And you have a meeting with the now 14-year-old Clementine. If you've played the first two seasons, let's look at your choices you've made in past episodes, as defined by Clementine. So you meet a character that you have created by your own rolling game. Each decision has influenced how that person is now, years later. In this respect, any decision you have made is important.
WIRED: If fans complain that they have made a decision and the story has not changed, is that simply the wrong expectation?
Stauffer: Sure, many fans do not understand that our games are not about what's happening on the screen, but what's happening in your head and in your heart. Our games are often about empathy. Not only in heroic stories, but also in comedy, you need empathy, so that you can identify with something that makes you feel or laugh. To want to make games that are about relationships, empathy and hard decisions is what drives us.
What pretentious drivel. Utterly meaningless. Way to both insult your fans' ability to understand your games and make yourselves sound like failed fine art graduates.
Apparently, Stauffer's job is to rub salt on our wounds. Get it? Job Stauffer, Stauffer's job? sigh At least my joke wasn't big enough to split it in two parts. Ok, I give up. Gabe's personality is better than this post.
Permission to choose Clem over his family always, approved. Awesome.
They're digging a real deep grave now.
That last one. L M A O.
I don't even think Kirkman knows what the timeline of things that happen are at this point.
Best to just roll with it. You'll give yourself a headache otherwise.
Thanks for the translated version!
I searched for it but not found it. (Or did you translate it by your own? If yes: Wow, double thanks!
)
Nice to see that more people can read and understand it now.
Yeah one of these days they need to sit down and figure this stuff out...you know..just for posterity.
ah yes, clearly i play telltale games for the quality gameplay of mashing Q and E. why would i even want story?
I didn't translate it on my own. The only thing I know how to say in German is Guten Morgen, Guten Tag, Guten Abend and Nein!
But yeah i'm always happy to help!
Hey on a positive note, there will soon be a public relations position opening up at Telltale...get your resume's ready!
Remember, if fans are not happy with your product, it is their fault!
I don't even know what to say anymore, except I just lost a huge amount of respect towards Jobs. Fucking lies man
I'll apply. I mean, I don't really have much experience in the public relations field, but based on this interview, neither does Stauffer really.
I am really confused by everyone's anger. People are acting like Job said "Our fans are stupid" but that's not it. Yes, he said that most don't understand that the game isn't about the major impacts of choices, ("most" not all of them) but honestly he isn't even that wrong.
I don't know, it just feels like everyone's actively searching for things to be mad about.
Saying that people who don't like the game 'don't understand it' IS calling the fans something close to stupid, and is the oldest excuse in the book to avoid actually responding to criticism.
In a sense, they are, but some is justified.
Some things I don't agree with this community on.
Every Telltale game is practically the same, the choices have never impacted the game to the point of change. (Besides S2 Ending)
At this point, we all sort of know that frankly the choices aren't going to change the story's ending, so why even complain at this point?
I also don't agree with hate towards Telltale for the S3 Menu and Music, I mean, it can be better, but it's no reason to call them lazy for it.
Overall, this community can be toxic, but there are many things that need to changed, and the most important thing is, "Episode Length".
He never said people who don't like the game. He seemed to just be talking about fans in general. There are plenty of people that complain about choices not mattering, but still enjoy the game. This may make me sound like a prick, but a lot of fans are so stuck in their hate that they are actually imagining Job directly insulting them.
I do think a lot of people seem to view choices as something that should be game altering rather than something that speak to your personal approach to the story. That's just me personally, though. I generally don't replay games to make the choices opposite of what I made the first time, which were choices I chose to make. Whether or not it ultimately plays out the same, they were choices I chose because they were my personal approach to the situation, and definitely affected my personal experience.
Being upset that they were handled sloppily like some in S2, or handled sloppily/thrown completely out the window like in ANF, I can understand. But the narrative will be taking the same route, it all comes down to how the aftermath is handled.
The quote comes as a response to people who aren't fully satisfied with the amount of choice and consequence in the games. It's not a general gnomic statement - it comes at the end of his specific explanation as to why the fans are not satisfied with the game.
The meaning is: 'Fans are not happy with this aspect of the game because they don't understand it'. That's a direct comment on the character of the fans.
I know often people can read too much into developer statements and that can be frustrating - but that shouldn't mean we give a free pass to EVERY thing he says. This was a pretty direct, unambiguous statement by him that in his opinion fans who have an issue with a part of the game 'don't understand it'.
Especially when his explanation basically comes down to 'they don't understand that they should be doing the work in characterisation and consequence not us'. Which is a pretty damn lazy thing for a developer to say to people who paid hard-earned money for their game.
This debate will literally be the two of us saying the same thing over and over, so I'll just say it one more time and let that be it. I don't think Job was insulting anyone, he explained what a telltale game is and said that most people don't see them for what they really are. He insulted no one, but people are gonna twist his words anyway and use it as fuel for their hate train.
EDIT: so I'm not 100% sure if that translate is correct so all of what's down below could change. Just saying this in case the tanslation isn't correct.
My stomach hurts from all the bullshit that was fed to me and shoved down my throat.
My stomach genuinely hurts. Can't believe what I just read. I mean, did I really just read that? Is that real? They know about the problems, they know about the backlash, they know about the fan's anger, and instead of fixing them, "THE STORY IS ABOUT YOUR HEART, blah blah, "find it in your heart to love the game" or whatever the hell it was. Don't care enough to scroll back up and quote it properly.
Seriously can't believe this. These pathetic excuses. Just like that tweet by staff a little while ago, saying they're not going to change the story because they're getting good reviews and that's all they care about. So Episode 3 isn't going to be better. Ugh, I love this damn game so much, I love the main character, and it hurts and saddens me that I've been following her story for 4 years just for this unbelievable shit to happen.
I'm genuinely mad right now and they're not going to fix the problem. I dreaded this and didn't think this would happen, oh boy I sure was wrong. As someone who's loved this franchise and company for over 6 years and stuck by them through thick and thin, fuck this. I'm not going to be reasonable and say "hope for the best." Unfuckin belivable. Season 3 isn't canon.
In June they kept jumping back and fourth. Between 13 and 14. I've been trying to say that it makes sense for her to be 14 because staff keeps saying they're tied with the comics now. Carl is 13 in the comics, he's been 13 for a while, and Clementine is a year older than Carl. So she's 14.
Ok, and I think that saying people who dislike an aspect of the game just don't 'understand it' is pretentious and representative of an inability to accept and thus respond to criticism, which is why we have seen the exact same issues in this game as we did in, say, season 2. I also think that you have general frustrations about fans being angry and thus are refusing to acknowledge that maybe in this one circumstance something less than ideal is being said by the developer.
I said a couple of times that 14 made more sense because of Carl but everyone just took 13 as her confirmed age because of Ava's comment so I just rolled with it.
I think I prefer it this way.
This is mistranslation. It translated "Handlung" as "action", which is wrong in this context. It meant to be "story" instead of that. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. You can google translate that word and you'll see different ways you can translate that word and for some reason "action" is first.
that what @mistergamer 11 posted is just a copy paste of google translate or something like that. I wouldn't trust that as real translation of what Job said.
Ava could have always been wrong. "What are you, 13?" It's just a guess. She could have easily been mistaken.
Think what you'd like though because not even telltale knows.
I wish they'd just given us the option to reply with her age and be done with it. Worked in season 2.
I'm going with 14.
It's their prerogative as the writers. Artistic Integrity. shrugs
This sums up what I am feeling at the moment.
Actually, Clementine should be 12, at least if the game takes place four years in as Telltale originally said. I personally think it's spring and about 4 3/4 years in, so she's 13. It can't really be more than that because of what Kate said about people hoarding all kind of shit "these past four years".
It'd be one thing to just say "hey guys, I understand your concern but honestly the game is tailored in your head and you only lose the illusion when you replay or go online. Sorry but it just takes a lot of resources and we do the best we can" except for the one tiny fact that they literally advertised wildly different Clementines and starting points.
It is false advertising and they are covering their asses for the fact that the game they market and the game they actually sell are completely different.