She betrays Bruce twice, or possibly three times if you don't let her in the cave. She also betrayed Harvey. She very easily hurts people close to her to get her way.
The reason why she hasn't revealed Bruce's identity is because she he is useful to her. She knows she can flash boobs at him and he will do anything for her (at least that's how their romance is written in S2).
I don't understand how people are saying that Selina can't be trusted. She has known our identity since s1e1 but has kept it a secret. She could have blackmailed Bruce, sold the info to the highest bidder, told the Pact, etc... but she hasn't.
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say people are probably right to be wary but I'd say she actually does care about Bruce, and how silly will everyone feel if it turns out you could trust her the whole time?!?!?! Telltale and their twists, am I right?
She betrays Bruce twice, or possibly three times if you don't let her in the cave. She also betrayed Harvey. She very easily hurts people cl… moreose to her to get her way.
The reason why she hasn't revealed Bruce's identity is because she he is useful to her. She knows she can flash boobs at him and he will do anything for her (at least that's how their romance is written in S2).
Selina hasn't been shown to be trustworthy if you're going strictly by TellTale's version. She used Bruce's best friend to get to Bruce in order to steal something. She didn't feel bad about it and come back to return it. He caught up to her.
Season two, she's willing to play along, but annoyed if you're honest with the Pact that the pair of you have met before. She acts like she wants to work together until she has an opportunity to do otherwise... then takes it. She doesn't contact Bruce later about it. He chases her down. She'll work with you then because otherwise she's left out of her agenda.
As for why she hasn't sold out his identity, that's an Ace. She isn't desperate for money. She's not in a terrible circumstance. There's no moment where revealing that information will benefit her greatly, and that's a card that can only be played once.
She's pretty. She's fun. Her romance is high adrenaline. But has she given Bruce a reason to trust her? In all truth, not thus far in two seasons -- but that doesn't mean the player doesn't choose to trust her or that Bruce Wayne wouldn't. This incarnation of him isn't as dark and jaded as others I've known before. For whatever reason, he seems surprised when these events occur.
I don't understand how people are saying that Selina can't be trusted. She has known our identity since s1e1 but has kept it a secret. She could have blackmailed Bruce, sold the info to the highest bidder, told the Pact, etc... but she hasn't.
I don't know if the identity is an ace. Like, sure, if she outs him he gets more publicity as he's this huge public figure in Gotham. But if he outs her... I mean he can't be the only person she's screwed over. Imagine the amount of crooks that she dealt with or double-crossed. Not to mention she'd be thrown in jail as she's technically considered a criminal.
I think she keeps it secret mainly to keep Bruce from arresting her. I doubt she'd expose him for any other reason.
Selina hasn't been shown to be trustworthy if you're going strictly by TellTale's version. She used Bruce's best friend to get to Bruce in o… morerder to steal something. She didn't feel bad about it and come back to return it. He caught up to her.
Season two, she's willing to play along, but annoyed if you're honest with the Pact that the pair of you have met before. She acts like she wants to work together until she has an opportunity to do otherwise... then takes it. She doesn't contact Bruce later about it. He chases her down. She'll work with you then because otherwise she's left out of her agenda.
As for why she hasn't sold out his identity, that's an Ace. She isn't desperate for money. She's not in a terrible circumstance. There's no moment where revealing that information will benefit her greatly, and that's a card that can only be played once.
She's pretty. She's fun. Her romance is high adrenaline. But has she given Bruce a reaso… [view original content]
Well Gordon knows about Catwoman/Selina... he sent the GCPD to visit her apartment and arrest her... so her cover is already blown there?
About the trust thing I belive it goes both ways, they both saved each other and they both have betrayed each other (unless you played 100% pro Catwoman) One thing is quite sure is that they do care about each other, they have some kind of bonding and chemistry.
I don't think it's the publicity or the police that's honestly of much concern to Bruce. I don't think he really considers the consequences frequently to himself at all. It's the consequences that brings to others that would worry him. That the criminals in Gotham wouldn't target him directly, but those who work for Bruce Wayne. His employees at Wayne Tower, or his family at home -- Alfred.
I don't think Selena would consider that either. I think her frame of mind is exactly as most have stated -- that if she goes down, he goes down. She's always been more centralized in that respect, while his last concern is what happens to himself. Perhaps she doesn't realize just how much power knowing that identity holds, but that's its real power.
I don't know if the identity is an ace. Like, sure, if she outs him he gets more publicity as he's this huge public figure in Gotham. But if… more he outs her... I mean he can't be the only person she's screwed over. Imagine the amount of crooks that she dealt with or double-crossed. Not to mention she'd be thrown in jail as she's technically considered a criminal.
I think she keeps it secret mainly to keep Bruce from arresting her. I doubt she'd expose him for any other reason.
Well Gordon knows about Catwoman/Selina... he sent the GCPD to visit her apartment and arrest her... so her cover is already blown there?
… more About the trust thing I belive it goes both ways, they both saved each other and they both have betrayed each other (unless you played 100% pro Catwoman) One thing is quite sure is that they do care about each other, they have some kind of bonding and chemistry.
I think "betrayal" is way too strong a word to use with her.
The Phalanx Key theft in S1 was, I believe, all an act regarding the part when she said she didn't expect Bruce to catch up to her. She likes the chase between Bruce and her, as she admitted to during that scene and S2E3. And there's the fact she's a master thief, maybe even the best in the world. Do you honestly believe she didn't assume there would be some sort of tracker in a valuable piece of tech like the Phalanx Key, and that she wouldn't have found a way to neutralize it --- especially knowing the owner of said tech is Batman?
I wouldn't call her treatment of Harvey a betrayal either, just morally questionable. She was in essence hanging out with him in order to get close to Bruce. "Playing with him", as she said in the Stacked Deck. She may have sent some signals Harvey's way to make him believe she's interested, or maybe she didn't. At the end of the day Harvey was attracted to her and the feeling wasn't reciprocated. I don't consider that a betrayal.
Then there's episode 3 of season 2. Riddler's hideout scene was, I think, also a way to get Bruce to "dance" with her, as John called it, and also chase her --- which is what she likes and possibly missed. You can see she's being playful after she handcuffs Bruce to the chair --- her dialogue relays that and the smile she gives when she's walking away from him relays that. It's just more of her games.
Regarding Harley's laptop and the rooftop scene, she sent you that text in order to, once again, get you to chase her. She wanted Bruce to catch up to her and work with her.
She betrays Bruce twice, or possibly three times if you don't let her in the cave. She also betrayed Harvey. She very easily hurts people cl… moreose to her to get her way.
The reason why she hasn't revealed Bruce's identity is because she he is useful to her. She knows she can flash boobs at him and he will do anything for her (at least that's how their romance is written in S2).
Yeah, my bad... I forgot that she moved out after the Harvey drama.
But we can presume Gordon probably knows that Catwoman is Selina Kyle? or did they track down Catwoman only? We know for sure Selina was not Catwoman when she was attacked (Because otherwise she would have come to Bruce manor as Catwoman instead of Selina?)
There's been no confirmation that Gordon knows her identity. She might have been in her suit during the attack and just took it off at the manor to allow Alfred to patch her up.
Yeah, my bad... I forgot that she moved out after the Harvey drama.
But we can presume Gordon probably knows that Catwoman is Selina Kyle… more? or did they track down Catwoman only? We know for sure Selina was not Catwoman when she was attacked (Because otherwise she would have come to Bruce manor as Catwoman instead of Selina?)
I'll agree with you in that I do think she does really care for Bruce. However I think she was half playing and half serious when she takes the drive. He'll even ask her why and she'll say that she wanted payback for Riddler in a very serious tone, which would mean she wasn't playing when she took it. She even mentions that Bruce doesn't have the code to do what needs to be done right before she takes it.
It's only if Bruce warns her about the GCPD that she starts playing. She'll even just give the drive to Bruce if he tells her she gets nothing in return. And if he doesn't warn her about the GCPD she'll fight him if he doesn't agree to work with her.
But, I also agree that it's not a betrayal. In season 2 she doesn't really owe Bruce any allegiance, especially if they left on bad terms. So I'd say she took the drive fair and square and Bruce really should of known better than to let his guard down around her. She didn't go there and immediately say 'don't you worry Bruce, I'm on your side.'
Not to mention she stole it to put a stop to the pact. She had the same motivations as Bruce and Bruce was planning to steal it from Harley and what not. So it's like their both thieves in that scenario.
Bruce may be better than her in season 1 but I'd say he isn't any better in season 2. In fact, Bruce can be worse considering all that you can have him do.
I think "betrayal" is way too strong a word to use with her.
The Phalanx Key theft in S1 was, I believe, all an act regarding the part wh… moreen she said she didn't expect Bruce to catch up to her. She likes the chase between Bruce and her, as she admitted to during that scene and S2E3. And there's the fact she's a master thief, maybe even the best in the world. Do you honestly believe she didn't assume there would be some sort of tracker in a valuable piece of tech like the Phalanx Key, and that she wouldn't have found a way to neutralize it --- especially knowing the owner of said tech is Batman?
I wouldn't call her treatment of Harvey a betrayal either, just morally questionable. She was in essence hanging out with him in order to get close to Bruce. "Playing with him", as she said in the Stacked Deck. She may have sent some signals Harvey's way to make him believe she's interested, or maybe she didn't. At the end of the day Harvey was at… [view original content]
Good points. I forgot about the part before she handcuffs him. She does seem serious when she refers to Bruce's code and not needings his help. Then on the rooftop she says something like "I let my temper get the better of me" when Bruce asks about her shenanigans at Riddler's place. Half playing, half serious sounds about right.
I'll agree with you in that I do think she does really care for Bruce. However I think she was half playing and half serious when she takes … morethe drive. He'll even ask her why and she'll say that she wanted payback for Riddler in a very serious tone, which would mean she wasn't playing when she took it. She even mentions that Bruce doesn't have the code to do what needs to be done right before she takes it.
It's only if Bruce warns her about the GCPD that she starts playing. She'll even just give the drive to Bruce if he tells her she gets nothing in return. And if he doesn't warn her about the GCPD she'll fight him if he doesn't agree to work with her.
But, I also agree that it's not a betrayal. In season 2 she doesn't really owe Bruce any allegiance, especially if they left on bad terms. So I'd say she took the drive fair and square and Bruce really should of known better than to let his guard down around her. She didn't go there and immed… [view original content]
Good points. I forgot about the part before she handcuffs him. She does seem serious when she refers to Bruce's code and not needings his he… morelp. Then on the rooftop she says something like "I let my temper get the better of me" when Bruce asks about her shenanigans at Riddler's place. Half playing, half serious sounds about right.
His car.
Seriously, I can't imagine him being ever in a stable relationship. He is dedicated to his goals, he doesn't have time for love.
Still. I'm not a fan of Batman/Catwoman ship, but I consider Selina his "canon" love interest.
I don't feel any chemistry between Bruce and Avesta at all. Selina and Bruce at least have some history and dynamic, and I do enjoy their fights.
Also, I know she DOES care about Bruce. That counts for something. She is not trustworthy in the common sense, but I do trust her to do the right thing in the end, and I do belive Bruce sees her the similar way. Like, despite all her games and criminal activity, she will not cross the line. She has limits. She is not the same type of villain, as Freeze, or Bane, or Penguin. She stands closer to Batman in this regard. So I can understand why Bruce is often works with her, rather when gives her to the police. XD
There's been such little screen time with avesta and Bruce I can't tell if they are a good fit yet. But with Selina there is obviously great chemistry between the two. They both have feelings for each other no matter the choices the player picks. I need to see more of avesta and bruce before I can even fathom a romance between them.
I like the idea of them, but I agree. They haven't had a proper moment. Like, in season 1, Selina and Bruce's moment was short but it conveyed their attraction to one another. ...Speaking of the bar fight. I think that's when they first start to like each other.
Avesta and Bruce don't have that. I mean, not anything that's mutual. Avesta may like Batman but Bruce doesn't seem to care about her anymore than the average person.
There's been such little screen time with avesta and Bruce I can't tell if they are a good fit yet. But with Selina there is obviously great… more chemistry between the two. They both have feelings for each other no matter the choices the player picks. I need to see more of avesta and bruce before I can even fathom a romance between them.
@VengefulKenny expressed my feelings about this. Bruce and Selina share a special connection. It's intangible, unspoken, and energetic. Both of them had childhoods, marred by tragedy. Orphaned or abandoned (determinate), with vastly different outcomes. Batman of course became devoted to acquiring justice in his parents' names. However, Catwoman of course didn’t have a loyal friend and a billion dollars to fall back on and turned to a life of crime. Their continuous attraction to each other is rooted in the fact that they’re both dark, creatures of the night.
Bruce's relationships have ended prematurely before, because he could never share both parts of his life with his partners. Catwoman is one of the few women that gets to be involved in both parts of his life, and the only person who has gotten involved on a deeper level (to this degree). They’re emotionally involved, to the point of worrying about each other, worrying about their safety and security constantly, and caring about their general well-being.
Selina saw herself as being nothing more than a thief in the first season. Which is why, if Bruce reaffirms this to her, as it seems to have been affirmed once before by someone, he leaves on bad terms with her. While he doesn’t approve of her thieving ways, he constantly turns the other cheek, and gives her chance after chance. Why? Because deep down inside, he knows that she's a woman who has had to endure more than any person should ever have to endure. He believes that there's something more to her, that she's better than what she thinks about herself, even when she doesn’t believe in herself. They have a real and meaningful relationship.
And @Lunat1c had a good rebuttal for the accusations continuously raised against Selina. Which, they (the accusations) have already been refuted by others before, like myself. Selina is fond of games and amusement, she's a lighthearted person. To use words like "betrayal" and "thievery" to describe her actions, is taking her playfulness too seriously. Ask yourself: if Selina was being serious, why would she send a text message to Bruce, where she's pictured with the laptop? A thief doesn't want to get caught, but she literally wanted him to chase her. It's very simple.
@VengefulKenny expressed my feelings about this. Bruce and Selina share a special connection. It's intangible, unspoken, and energetic. Both… more of them had childhoods, marred by tragedy. Orphaned or abandoned (determinate), with vastly different outcomes. Batman of course became devoted to acquiring justice in his parents' names. However, Catwoman of course didn’t have a loyal friend and a billion dollars to fall back on and turned to a life of crime. Their continuous attraction to each other is rooted in the fact that they’re both dark, creatures of the night.
Bruce's relationships have ended prematurely before, because he could never share both parts of his life with his partners. Catwoman is one of the few women that gets to be involved in both parts of his life, and the only person who has gotten involved on a deeper level (to this degree). They’re emotionally involved, to the point of worrying about each other, worrying about their safet… [view original content]
It just depends on how you choose to play the TellTale game. Naturally, if you elect not to warn her about Gordon and allow law enforcement to do its job -- there's no cheeky picture sent to you about her holding a laptop. John gets it for you. If you choose to romance CatWoman, TellTale has provided a fantastic adrenaline filled playtime that may or may not end with a companion sticking around at the end.
I don't fault anyone for wanting no romance at all, or to wait for other romance choices. The comics have a selection of canon relationships that he's been involved with, and even been quite serious in. If the thief doesn't fit their style, no harm. Talia and Selena are the most commonly used, but there is always Silver St. Cloud, Sasha Bordeaux, Julie Madison, Zantanna, and Wonder Woman. He's even been in a relationship with Lois Lane.
Relationships, fictional or otherwise, are complicated things. I think it's a credit to TellTale's team that they managed to create a narrative where both romancing someone and not romancing someone seemed fluid and unforced. If she isn't romanced, her flirtations appear to be like tools of the trade -- useful for distractions or to get what she wants. If she is romanced, everything is teasing and uncertainty -- Batman has a set of rules and methods she's not entirely sure she can bend to, and she's not yet willing to try.
@VengefulKenny expressed my feelings about this. Bruce and Selina share a special connection. It's intangible, unspoken, and energetic. Both… more of them had childhoods, marred by tragedy. Orphaned or abandoned (determinate), with vastly different outcomes. Batman of course became devoted to acquiring justice in his parents' names. However, Catwoman of course didn’t have a loyal friend and a billion dollars to fall back on and turned to a life of crime. Their continuous attraction to each other is rooted in the fact that they’re both dark, creatures of the night.
Bruce's relationships have ended prematurely before, because he could never share both parts of his life with his partners. Catwoman is one of the few women that gets to be involved in both parts of his life, and the only person who has gotten involved on a deeper level (to this degree). They’re emotionally involved, to the point of worrying about each other, worrying about their safet… [view original content]
Well, of course, if you allow Selina to be ambushed by the GCPD, she will be prevented from stealing the laptop. However, that's not what I'm talking about. She sends him a compromising picture of herself. What does that say? That says that that's how she would react in that given situation. If given the opportunity, she has fun playing games of cat and mouse with him. If you deny her the chance, that doesn't take away from it being a part of her personality. Does that make sense? Basically, she's still fond of games and amusement, being a lighthearted person, even if you don't allow her to play those games to her amusement. For example, if you don't inform her about the ambush, when you arrive at Wayne Manor eventually, Selina still offers to give Bruce the decrypter and the goggles if he lets her help him. She then playfully asks him to admit that he needs her help with a smirk on her face. There are even more examples of this.
Also, I never said that Bruce wasn't in any other serious relationships, but his relationship with Selina is one of the more enduring ones in his life, who again, "got involved on a deeper level (to this degree)". There's no question about it.
If Selina is romanced, I don't believe that it's "teased" or "uncertain", as suggested. The feelings that Selina expresses for Bruce, even subtly, are genuine. There are several people who have already explained this, especially with how sad her countenance is, if you remain as just friends. Her feelings wouldn't have been hurt, had she not had any feelings for him. If she isn't romanced, she feels extremely hurt by having opened herself up to someone who ultimately rejected her. It's a natural response to having your heart broken.
It just depends on how you choose to play the TellTale game. Naturally, if you elect not to warn her about Gordon and allow law enforcement … moreto do its job -- there's no cheeky picture sent to you about her holding a laptop. John gets it for you. If you choose to romance CatWoman, TellTale has provided a fantastic adrenaline filled playtime that may or may not end with a companion sticking around at the end.
I don't fault anyone for wanting no romance at all, or to wait for other romance choices. The comics have a selection of canon relationships that he's been involved with, and even been quite serious in. If the thief doesn't fit their style, no harm. Talia and Selena are the most commonly used, but there is always Silver St. Cloud, Sasha Bordeaux, Julie Madison, Zantanna, and Wonder Woman. He's even been in a relationship with Lois Lane.
Relationships, fictional or otherwise, are complicated things. I think it's a credit to TellTale's … [view original content]
It just depends on how you choose to play the TellTale game. Naturally, if you elect not to warn her about Gordon and allow law enforcement … moreto do its job -- there's no cheeky picture sent to you about her holding a laptop. John gets it for you. If you choose to romance CatWoman, TellTale has provided a fantastic adrenaline filled playtime that may or may not end with a companion sticking around at the end.
I don't fault anyone for wanting no romance at all, or to wait for other romance choices. The comics have a selection of canon relationships that he's been involved with, and even been quite serious in. If the thief doesn't fit their style, no harm. Talia and Selena are the most commonly used, but there is always Silver St. Cloud, Sasha Bordeaux, Julie Madison, Zantanna, and Wonder Woman. He's even been in a relationship with Lois Lane.
Relationships, fictional or otherwise, are complicated things. I think it's a credit to TellTale's … [view original content]
Like you said it's an unspoken thing, Selina even in season 1 if you chose to keep it "professional " to my opinion still has feelings. In the cave when you pick to be more than just friends she straight up said "this is what i wanted " after the two kiss.
Well, of course, if you allow Selina to be ambushed by the GCPD, she will be prevented from stealing the laptop. However, that's not what I'… morem talking about. She sends him a compromising picture of herself. What does that say? That says that that's how she would react in that given situation. If given the opportunity, she has fun playing games of cat and mouse with him. If you deny her the chance, that doesn't take away from it being a part of her personality. Does that make sense? Basically, she's still fond of games and amusement, being a lighthearted person, even if you don't allow her to play those games to her amusement. For example, if you don't inform her about the ambush, when you arrive at Wayne Manor eventually, Selina still offers to give Bruce the decrypter and the goggles if he lets her help him. She then playfully asks him to admit that he needs her help with a smirk on her face. There are even more examples of this.
Also, I n… [view original content]
I agree with you completely! Selina has suppressed her feelings for Bruce to keep from being hurt emotionally. In the first season, if you tell her that you love her, she believes him to be like everyone else. However, in the second season, she will remember that, and say that while it was sudden, it was sweet in retrospect. She starts to slowly open up about her feelings for him. It really is an unspoken thing.
Like you said it's an unspoken thing, Selina even in season 1 if you chose to keep it "professional " to my opinion still has feelings. In … morethe cave when you pick to be more than just friends she straight up said "this is what i wanted " after the two kiss.
All three women are, undoubtedly. But it was rather clear she would be out of the race.
I'm not unhappy with the Bruce-Selina ship though, I expected so much worse and I got quite a lovely couple. Telltale could not have made it clearer they are a perfect match for each other, and let's not forget Selina is Alfred approved !
Will it last ? Probably not, but I'll enjoy it while it does.
For me, personality is half of what makes someone attractive. For that reason, I find Harley repulsive. I mean, she was pretty in that Arkham ID, with blonde hair minus the makeup, but I'm not a fan of the clown makeup. Oh, and even this version of her voice is godawful.
I agree that this season's Selina is very likeable but I think the changes from season one to two are a bit too monumental to believe. I don't know that I trust the transformation.
All three women are, undoubtedly. But it was rather clear she would be out of the race.
I'm not unhappy with the Bruce-Selina ship though, … moreI expected so much worse and I got quite a lovely couple. Telltale could not have made it clearer they are a perfect match for each other, and let's not forget Selina is Alfred approved !
Will it last ? Probably not, but I'll enjoy it while it does.
To Journey95's credit u did mentioned in your last post despite it being a avesta vs selina post... Anyway i rather the still mysterious intrigue of avesta than the same iteration of selina .
Comments
She betrays Bruce twice, or possibly three times if you don't let her in the cave. She also betrayed Harvey. She very easily hurts people close to her to get her way.
The reason why she hasn't revealed Bruce's identity is because she he is useful to her. She knows she can flash boobs at him and he will do anything for her (at least that's how their romance is written in S2).
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say people are probably right to be wary but I'd say she actually does care about Bruce, and how silly will everyone feel if it turns out you could trust her the whole time?!?!?! Telltale and their twists, am I right?
Selina hasn't been shown to be trustworthy if you're going strictly by TellTale's version. She used Bruce's best friend to get to Bruce in order to steal something. She didn't feel bad about it and come back to return it. He caught up to her.
Season two, she's willing to play along, but annoyed if you're honest with the Pact that the pair of you have met before. She acts like she wants to work together until she has an opportunity to do otherwise... then takes it. She doesn't contact Bruce later about it. He chases her down. She'll work with you then because otherwise she's left out of her agenda.
As for why she hasn't sold out his identity, that's an Ace. She isn't desperate for money. She's not in a terrible circumstance. There's no moment where revealing that information will benefit her greatly, and that's a card that can only be played once.
She's pretty. She's fun. Her romance is high adrenaline. But has she given Bruce a reason to trust her? In all truth, not thus far in two seasons -- but that doesn't mean the player doesn't choose to trust her or that Bruce Wayne wouldn't. This incarnation of him isn't as dark and jaded as others I've known before. For whatever reason, he seems surprised when these events occur.
I don't know if the identity is an ace. Like, sure, if she outs him he gets more publicity as he's this huge public figure in Gotham. But if he outs her... I mean he can't be the only person she's screwed over. Imagine the amount of crooks that she dealt with or double-crossed. Not to mention she'd be thrown in jail as she's technically considered a criminal.
I think she keeps it secret mainly to keep Bruce from arresting her. I doubt she'd expose him for any other reason.
Yeah they both go down if one exposes the other.
Well Gordon knows about Catwoman/Selina... he sent the GCPD to visit her apartment and arrest her... so her cover is already blown there?
About the trust thing I belive it goes both ways, they both saved each other and they both have betrayed each other (unless you played 100% pro Catwoman) One thing is quite sure is that they do care about each other, they have some kind of bonding and chemistry.
I don't think it's the publicity or the police that's honestly of much concern to Bruce. I don't think he really considers the consequences frequently to himself at all. It's the consequences that brings to others that would worry him. That the criminals in Gotham wouldn't target him directly, but those who work for Bruce Wayne. His employees at Wayne Tower, or his family at home -- Alfred.
I don't think Selena would consider that either. I think her frame of mind is exactly as most have stated -- that if she goes down, he goes down. She's always been more centralized in that respect, while his last concern is what happens to himself. Perhaps she doesn't realize just how much power knowing that identity holds, but that's its real power.
Did Gordon hit her apartment? I didn't even think Selina lived Gotham.
I think "betrayal" is way too strong a word to use with her.
The Phalanx Key theft in S1 was, I believe, all an act regarding the part when she said she didn't expect Bruce to catch up to her. She likes the chase between Bruce and her, as she admitted to during that scene and S2E3. And there's the fact she's a master thief, maybe even the best in the world. Do you honestly believe she didn't assume there would be some sort of tracker in a valuable piece of tech like the Phalanx Key, and that she wouldn't have found a way to neutralize it --- especially knowing the owner of said tech is Batman?
I wouldn't call her treatment of Harvey a betrayal either, just morally questionable. She was in essence hanging out with him in order to get close to Bruce. "Playing with him", as she said in the Stacked Deck. She may have sent some signals Harvey's way to make him believe she's interested, or maybe she didn't. At the end of the day Harvey was attracted to her and the feeling wasn't reciprocated. I don't consider that a betrayal.
Then there's episode 3 of season 2. Riddler's hideout scene was, I think, also a way to get Bruce to "dance" with her, as John called it, and also chase her --- which is what she likes and possibly missed. You can see she's being playful after she handcuffs Bruce to the chair --- her dialogue relays that and the smile she gives when she's walking away from him relays that. It's just more of her games.
Regarding Harley's laptop and the rooftop scene, she sent you that text in order to, once again, get you to chase her. She wanted Bruce to catch up to her and work with her.
I don't think so. She did leave that place behind in S1. She was probably hanging out someplace else when the GCPD went after her.
Yeah, my bad... I forgot that she moved out after the Harvey drama.
But we can presume Gordon probably knows that Catwoman is Selina Kyle? or did they track down Catwoman only? We know for sure Selina was not Catwoman when she was attacked (Because otherwise she would have come to Bruce manor as Catwoman instead of Selina?)
There's been no confirmation that Gordon knows her identity. She might have been in her suit during the attack and just took it off at the manor to allow Alfred to patch her up.
I'll agree with you in that I do think she does really care for Bruce. However I think she was half playing and half serious when she takes the drive. He'll even ask her why and she'll say that she wanted payback for Riddler in a very serious tone, which would mean she wasn't playing when she took it. She even mentions that Bruce doesn't have the code to do what needs to be done right before she takes it.
It's only if Bruce warns her about the GCPD that she starts playing. She'll even just give the drive to Bruce if he tells her she gets nothing in return. And if he doesn't warn her about the GCPD she'll fight him if he doesn't agree to work with her.
But, I also agree that it's not a betrayal. In season 2 she doesn't really owe Bruce any allegiance, especially if they left on bad terms. So I'd say she took the drive fair and square and Bruce really should of known better than to let his guard down around her. She didn't go there and immediately say 'don't you worry Bruce, I'm on your side.'
Not to mention she stole it to put a stop to the pact. She had the same motivations as Bruce and Bruce was planning to steal it from Harley and what not. So it's like their both thieves in that scenario.
Bruce may be better than her in season 1 but I'd say he isn't any better in season 2. In fact, Bruce can be worse considering all that you can have him do.
Good points. I forgot about the part before she handcuffs him. She does seem serious when she refers to Bruce's code and not needings his help. Then on the rooftop she says something like "I let my temper get the better of me" when Bruce asks about her shenanigans at Riddler's place. Half playing, half serious sounds about right.
Yeah, she was definitely serious about taking it but she did do it playfully. lol. The happy medium.
She needs to come clean about her and Riddler's past.
I wonder if we'll ever see Harvey again.
Agreed
His car.
Seriously, I can't imagine him being ever in a stable relationship. He is dedicated to his goals, he doesn't have time for love.
Still. I'm not a fan of Batman/Catwoman ship, but I consider Selina his "canon" love interest.
I don't feel any chemistry between Bruce and Avesta at all. Selina and Bruce at least have some history and dynamic, and I do enjoy their fights.
Also, I know she DOES care about Bruce. That counts for something. She is not trustworthy in the common sense, but I do trust her to do the right thing in the end, and I do belive Bruce sees her the similar way. Like, despite all her games and criminal activity, she will not cross the line. She has limits. She is not the same type of villain, as Freeze, or Bane, or Penguin. She stands closer to Batman in this regard. So I can understand why Bruce is often works with her, rather when gives her to the police. XD
Should be interesting what happens.
Avesta is the better one for Bruce but idk if it will happen.
There's been such little screen time with avesta and Bruce I can't tell if they are a good fit yet. But with Selina there is obviously great chemistry between the two. They both have feelings for each other no matter the choices the player picks. I need to see more of avesta and bruce before I can even fathom a romance between them.
I like the idea of them, but I agree. They haven't had a proper moment. Like, in season 1, Selina and Bruce's moment was short but it conveyed their attraction to one another. ...Speaking of the bar fight. I think that's when they first start to like each other.
Avesta and Bruce don't have that. I mean, not anything that's mutual. Avesta may like Batman but Bruce doesn't seem to care about her anymore than the average person.
@VengefulKenny expressed my feelings about this. Bruce and Selina share a special connection. It's intangible, unspoken, and energetic. Both of them had childhoods, marred by tragedy. Orphaned or abandoned (determinate), with vastly different outcomes. Batman of course became devoted to acquiring justice in his parents' names. However, Catwoman of course didn’t have a loyal friend and a billion dollars to fall back on and turned to a life of crime. Their continuous attraction to each other is rooted in the fact that they’re both dark, creatures of the night.
Bruce's relationships have ended prematurely before, because he could never share both parts of his life with his partners. Catwoman is one of the few women that gets to be involved in both parts of his life, and the only person who has gotten involved on a deeper level (to this degree). They’re emotionally involved, to the point of worrying about each other, worrying about their safety and security constantly, and caring about their general well-being.
Selina saw herself as being nothing more than a thief in the first season. Which is why, if Bruce reaffirms this to her, as it seems to have been affirmed once before by someone, he leaves on bad terms with her. While he doesn’t approve of her thieving ways, he constantly turns the other cheek, and gives her chance after chance. Why? Because deep down inside, he knows that she's a woman who has had to endure more than any person should ever have to endure. He believes that there's something more to her, that she's better than what she thinks about herself, even when she doesn’t believe in herself. They have a real and meaningful relationship.
And @Lunat1c had a good rebuttal for the accusations continuously raised against Selina. Which, they (the accusations) have already been refuted by others before, like myself. Selina is fond of games and amusement, she's a lighthearted person. To use words like "betrayal" and "thievery" to describe her actions, is taking her playfulness too seriously. Ask yourself: if Selina was being serious, why would she send a text message to Bruce, where she's pictured with the laptop? A thief doesn't want to get caught, but she literally wanted him to chase her. It's very simple.
Really good explaination, well said.
It just depends on how you choose to play the TellTale game. Naturally, if you elect not to warn her about Gordon and allow law enforcement to do its job -- there's no cheeky picture sent to you about her holding a laptop. John gets it for you. If you choose to romance CatWoman, TellTale has provided a fantastic adrenaline filled playtime that may or may not end with a companion sticking around at the end.
I don't fault anyone for wanting no romance at all, or to wait for other romance choices. The comics have a selection of canon relationships that he's been involved with, and even been quite serious in. If the thief doesn't fit their style, no harm. Talia and Selena are the most commonly used, but there is always Silver St. Cloud, Sasha Bordeaux, Julie Madison, Zantanna, and Wonder Woman. He's even been in a relationship with Lois Lane.
Relationships, fictional or otherwise, are complicated things. I think it's a credit to TellTale's team that they managed to create a narrative where both romancing someone and not romancing someone seemed fluid and unforced. If she isn't romanced, her flirtations appear to be like tools of the trade -- useful for distractions or to get what she wants. If she is romanced, everything is teasing and uncertainty -- Batman has a set of rules and methods she's not entirely sure she can bend to, and she's not yet willing to try.
Well, of course, if you allow Selina to be ambushed by the GCPD, she will be prevented from stealing the laptop. However, that's not what I'm talking about. She sends him a compromising picture of herself. What does that say? That says that that's how she would react in that given situation. If given the opportunity, she has fun playing games of cat and mouse with him. If you deny her the chance, that doesn't take away from it being a part of her personality. Does that make sense? Basically, she's still fond of games and amusement, being a lighthearted person, even if you don't allow her to play those games to her amusement. For example, if you don't inform her about the ambush, when you arrive at Wayne Manor eventually, Selina still offers to give Bruce the decrypter and the goggles if he lets her help him. She then playfully asks him to admit that he needs her help with a smirk on her face. There are even more examples of this.
Also, I never said that Bruce wasn't in any other serious relationships, but his relationship with Selina is one of the more enduring ones in his life, who again, "got involved on a deeper level (to this degree)". There's no question about it.
If Selina is romanced, I don't believe that it's "teased" or "uncertain", as suggested. The feelings that Selina expresses for Bruce, even subtly, are genuine. There are several people who have already explained this, especially with how sad her countenance is, if you remain as just friends. Her feelings wouldn't have been hurt, had she not had any feelings for him. If she isn't romanced, she feels extremely hurt by having opened herself up to someone who ultimately rejected her. It's a natural response to having your heart broken.
I'm a fan of the Nocturna and Silver romances myself.
Like you said it's an unspoken thing, Selina even in season 1 if you chose to keep it "professional " to my opinion still has feelings. In the cave when you pick to be more than just friends she straight up said "this is what i wanted " after the two kiss.
I agree with you completely! Selina has suppressed her feelings for Bruce to keep from being hurt emotionally. In the first season, if you tell her that you love her, she believes him to be like everyone else. However, in the second season, she will remember that, and say that while it was sudden, it was sweet in retrospect. She starts to slowly open up about her feelings for him. It really is an unspoken thing.
What a shame. Damn it Telltale.
Poor Avesta, crushed under the combined wheels of Harley and Selina.
What a beauty though.
I'm holding out hope, I think it would be intersting story wise, especially if Waller and Selina found out.
Nah. That ship (no pun intended) sailed.
She is lovely, though.
All three women are, undoubtedly. But it was rather clear she would be out of the race.
I'm not unhappy with the Bruce-Selina ship though, I expected so much worse and I got quite a lovely couple. Telltale could not have made it clearer they are a perfect match for each other, and let's not forget Selina is Alfred approved !
Will it last ? Probably not, but I'll enjoy it while it does.
It's pretty much set in stone with Selina and Bruce.
For me, personality is half of what makes someone attractive. For that reason, I find Harley repulsive. I mean, she was pretty in that Arkham ID, with blonde hair minus the makeup, but I'm not a fan of the clown makeup. Oh, and even this version of her voice is godawful.
I agree that this season's Selina is very likeable but I think the changes from season one to two are a bit too monumental to believe. I don't know that I trust the transformation.
Harley Quinn, Telltale's version is very interesting has great chemistry with Bruce
She wasn't one of the options in this particular thread. Not all of us are enamored with Harley. I, for one, find her repulsive.
To Journey95's credit u did mentioned in your last post despite it being a avesta vs selina post... Anyway i rather the still mysterious intrigue of avesta than the same iteration of selina .