Okay wow not trying to get into an abortion argument here but Jane had sex with Luke like.... 2 or 3 days prior? Does not necessarily make her a "pregnant" woman, Jane didn't even know and Kenny certainly didn't know. Regardless there was no developed fetus inside her at that point anyways.
And saying that Jane's fate was Telltale's writing flaw is ridiculous, Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.
Kenny is still technically the real hypocrite, he kills a pregnant woman (jane) whilst shouting at her for being a "baby killer", he knew sh… moree had sex with Luke too so it's not like he had no idea whatsoever that she could be pregnant. And then if you reply with "but jane kill erself in seaon 3!!!!", that's not her personality from season 2 at all, that's just telltales lazy ass writing. her personality would've been to ditch clem as she was all about survival not just kill herself because of a fucking baby. In fact she could probably abort it somehow.
((I say mostly because she left a baby to die and dint even think of stopping the fight for her survival when it stopped going her way.))
Even if Jane tried to stop Kenny it wouldn't work and she wanted to fight him,you can clearly see Kenny lost his mind at this point.
I still don't know if i like this scene or hate it there's so many things that doesn't make sense,
i actually think they should have went with a final choice to save Kenny or Luke.
Clearly Jane Lily was highly unstable during episode 3 after Larry s death so her Killing Doug/Carley is not as bad as Jane s plan which was… more made while Jane was mostly sane when she made the plan for clem to kill Kenny ((I say mostly because she left a baby to die and dint even think of stopping the fight for her survival when it stopped going her way.))
Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.
Lol oh please just don't try to defend what they did this was stupid there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
Her death is not even heroic like Kenny this is literally a middle finger from Telltale to all the people who liked her.
Okay wow not trying to get into an abortion argument here but Jane had sex with Luke like.... 2 or 3 days prior? Does not necessarily make h… moreer a "pregnant" woman, Jane didn't even know and Kenny certainly didn't know. Regardless there was no developed fetus inside her at that point anyways.
And saying that Jane's fate was Telltale's writing flaw is ridiculous, Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.
Why are you pretending she is a hero and not a person who left her sister to die, called leaving a young traumatized girl to die the "right decision, wanted to rob a stranger, and pretended that a baby was dead in order to provoke a deadly confrontation and prove a point? Jane was a horrible person who had her own interests at heart and her death is fitting considering how selfish she was and how much she disliked children.
Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.
… more
Lol oh please just don't try to defend what they did this was stupid there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
Her death is not even heroic like Kenny this is literally a middle finger from Telltale to all the people who liked her.
Yeah well Kenny wasn't a hero either he did a lot of things that weren't really "heroic" i know you probably love him and i do too but that doesn't excuse what Telltale did to Jane.
Seriously they killed her like she was nothing she didn't even leave a note for Clementine (she cared about Clementine) no she just died like that.She didn't hated children she cared a lot about Clementine otherwise she wouldn't have come back for her.
Why are you pretending she is a hero and not a person who left her sister to die, called leaving a young traumatized girl to die the "right … moredecision, wanted to rob a stranger, and pretended that a baby was dead in order to provoke a deadly confrontation and prove a point? Jane was a horrible person who had her own interests at heart and her death is fitting considering how selfish she was and how much she disliked children.
there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
The theory of her being pregnant by Troy/Luke was definitely a common one; her committing suicide after realizing it was like, " What."
Her committing suicide by literally hanging herself, combined with the way it was preceded and especially revealed, was narmy as shit though.
Her death is not even heroic like Kenny
Funny you say that considering that was the most likely of two ways I saw her dying.
Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.
… more
Lol oh please just don't try to defend what they did this was stupid there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
Her death is not even heroic like Kenny this is literally a middle finger from Telltale to all the people who liked her.
Kenny made some difficult decisions but that's what you have to do to survive in the Walking Dead. Good guys like Lee, Rick Grimes, even Clementine had to make some not nice decisions in order to protect other people. The not nice things that Kenny did doesn't take away from the fact that he always tried protecting others, even if they didn't realize it or appreciate it. And Kenny never left children to die or toyed with people's emotions to prove a point.
And Jane saw Clementine as less of a child and more of a capable version of her dead sister. She was trying to fill that void of shame and guilt that she felt after Jaime died, but her lessons were very twisted such as telling Clem to leave her friends behind and to only look out for herself. Jane looked at all the other children like AJ and Sarah with disgust which explains why she simply gave up and killed herself instead of sticking it out for the people she claimed to care about so much.
Yeah well Kenny wasn't a hero either he did a lot of things that weren't really "heroic" i know you probably love him and i do too but that … moredoesn't excuse what Telltale did to Jane.
Seriously they killed her like she was nothing she didn't even leave a note for Clementine (she cared about Clementine) no she just died like that.She didn't hated children she cared a lot about Clementine otherwise she wouldn't have come back for her.
You make some good points but i can't accept what they did
Yeah she tell Clem to look out for herself but she's not really wrong trusting people in the apocalypse is really dangerous and she saw that Kenny was dangerous and would snap everytime something bad was happening (Kenny is a good guy but he really can't control his anger)
then in Season 3 there's a flashback where Kenny is completely happy and he died protecting Clem and AJ.
And Jane died hanging herself just because she's pregnant ? You see there's something not right with that,you're trying to find an excuse for Jane's death but they wanted to get rid of them and this was just fucking stupid.
Even if you hate Jane i don't know how you can accept how stupid her death was,Telltale did not care about these characters we loved in season 2 (and let's not forget how awful they looked) and just decided to kill them because they couldn't bother finding a way to keep them alive.
Kenny made some difficult decisions but that's what you have to do to survive in the Walking Dead. Good guys like Lee, Rick Grimes, even Cle… morementine had to make some not nice decisions in order to protect other people. The not nice things that Kenny did doesn't take away from the fact that he always tried protecting others, even if they didn't realize it or appreciate it. And Kenny never left children to die or toyed with people's emotions to prove a point.
And Jane saw Clementine as less of a child and more of a capable version of her dead sister. She was trying to fill that void of shame and guilt that she felt after Jaime died, but her lessons were very twisted such as telling Clem to leave her friends behind and to only look out for herself. Jane looked at all the other children like AJ and Sarah with disgust which explains why she simply gave up and killed herself instead of sticking it out for the people she claimed to care about so much.
Kenny was angry because he was in a group that essentially dragged him into the Carver situation which resulted in him losing his home, his friends, even his eyeball. And then when he picks himself back up and takes care of the baby and looks after the group they act like he's some crazy asshole. I would be angry in that environment as well. In the s3 flashback he finds redemption and happiness taking care of the kids without some shitbird robbing them or talking behind his back.
I'm not saying it wasn't stupid for Telltale to kill off the s2 endings in 5 minutes, because it was stupid and downright lazy and offensive to fans of the series. I'm just saying that Kenny and Jane's were still in character, because they were.
You make some good points but i can't accept what they did
Yeah she tell Clem to look out for herself but she's not really wrong trusting… more people in the apocalypse is really dangerous and she saw that Kenny was dangerous and would snap everytime something bad was happening (Kenny is a good guy but he really can't control his anger)
then in Season 3 there's a flashback where Kenny is completely happy and he died protecting Clem and AJ.
And Jane died hanging herself just because she's pregnant ? You see there's something not right with that,you're trying to find an excuse for Jane's death but they wanted to get rid of them and this was just fucking stupid.
Even if you hate Jane i don't know how you can accept how stupid her death was,Telltale did not care about these characters we loved in season 2 (and let's not forget how awful they looked) and just decided to kill them because they couldn't bother finding a way to keep them alive.
I'm not saying it wasn't stupid for Telltale to kill off the s2 endings in 5 minutes, because it was stupid and downright lazy and offensive to fans of the series. I'm just saying that Kenny and Jane's were still in character, because they were.
The problem for me was how pathetic and lazy her death was like you said.
And Yes this was out of character,
Jane teached Clem how to survive, to not trust people all these years,lie about the baby's death and fight Kenny to prove a point (she admit that was stupid but she did it because she wanted to protect Clem) and after all this that's what she get ?
She was a survivor who deserved to went out with a fight.
This wasn't even hard to do if Telltale didn't care about her just let her fight against the family and say goodbye to Clem and AJ.You see Clem leave and Jane's dying and that's it.
Kenny was angry because he was in a group that essentially dragged him into the Carver situation which resulted in him losing his home, his … morefriends, even his eyeball. And then when he picks himself back up and takes care of the baby and looks after the group they act like he's some crazy asshole. I would be angry in that environment as well. In the s3 flashback he finds redemption and happiness taking care of the kids without some shitbird robbing them or talking behind his back.
I'm not saying it wasn't stupid for Telltale to kill off the s2 endings in 5 minutes, because it was stupid and downright lazy and offensive to fans of the series. I'm just saying that Kenny and Jane's were still in character, because they were.
The theory of her being pregnant by Troy/Luke was definitely a common one; her committing suicide after realizing it was like, " What."
Yeah her death is so fucking depressing and out of nowhere i don't understand how Clem is still alive in that ending she lost Jane who decided to commit suicide and had to shoot her (determinantly) and she's left with a baby all alone,
but there's also a lot of things i don't understand about this game so yeah..
there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were … morelike "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
The theory of her being pregnant by Troy/Luke was definitely a common one; her committing suicide after realizing it was like, " What."
Her committing suicide by literally hanging herself, combined with the way it was preceded and especially revealed, was narmy as shit though.
Her death is not even heroic like Kenny
Funny you say that considering that was the most likely of two ways I saw her dying.
So, this has been a thing that has annoyed me for a long time and I'm going to get a lot of crap for saying this but I'm going to say it any… moreways. Why does everybody demonize Jane and idolize Kenny? Kenny has a much bigger fanbase but when you look at the facts he isn't any better than Jane and that's what makes both of them good characters. Most of my comments probably give off the impression that I love Jane and dislike Kenny but this isn't the case. I love both of these characters equally. However, it bothers the crap out of me how Kenny tends to be viewed as the "good" person and Jane tends to be viewed as the "evil" person.
Yeah the whole dead baby trick was 100% disgusting and there is no justifying it. Jane is certainly no angel but Kenny isn't any better. Kenny's the one who tried to kill Jane not the other way round. There is no justifying what Jane did but Jane never planned on killing Kenny she just wanted to prove just how dange… [view original content]
((I say mostly because she left a baby to die and dint even think of stopping the fight for her survival when it stopped going her way.))
… more
Even if Jane tried to stop Kenny it wouldn't work and she wanted to fight him,you can clearly see Kenny lost his mind at this point.
I still don't know if i like this scene or hate it there's so many things that doesn't make sense,
i actually think they should have went with a final choice to save Kenny or Luke.
Jane never planned on killing Kenny
Well that has been debatable over time and i’ll explain why. She played the victim during that f… moreight, she wanted Clem to see her as the innocent one, the way she gets her knife out and then puts it away as Clem watches, Jane knew full well the second she put her knife away that Kenny would attack. She tells Clem determinately “it’s time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery” which is obviously an intent to kill him, even if it wasn’t like that to begin with. The point is, she tries to kill him too, not just Kenny.
After he thought that Jane had killed AJ he attacked her without even giving her a chance to explain.
If there was someone i didn’t like or trust and saw as a dangerous person myself, especially being made to think the one thing i care about (the baby) has been killed, i think i’d react the same way as Kenny (in a zombie apocalypse obviously). Why would i believe… [view original content]
Arguing? Debating more like. You didn’t reply to my post from days ago which is why i tagged you. I didn’t know you had read it. A simple reply saying you didn’t want to discuss it would have been fine, jeez!
We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic for months on end if we really wanted to. Personally I would rather spend my time discussing other things. Too da loo!
Forgot to make this a reply @dan290786
I SUMMON YOU!
We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic fo… morer months on end if we really wanted to. Personally I would rather spend my time discussing other things. Too da loo!
Forgot to make this a reply @dan290786
I SUMMON YOU!
We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic fo… morer months on end if we really wanted to. Personally I would rather spend my time discussing other things. Too da loo!
Lilly was kind of alright until she killed Carly/Doug. I hated Jane from the start, wanting to leave Sarah, pretending that AJ had died so that she could kill Kenny, which is horrible. Jane is definitely the worst.
I don't think Kenny sees "good" and "bad" in the conventional sense. His "morality" or "should/shouldn't do" criteria has less to do with some defined moral code found in most people but rather whether one's opinions and actions align with his own ideals and goals or not. He does not concede. Ever. It's either you're with him or against him, no middle ground, no room for discussion. The moment where this is most apparent being when Kenny is confronted with the decision on whether or not to join Lee/the group on finding Clementine. The very game itself has a system that determines Kenny's choice, and it's all reliant on how often you sided with him throughout the Season. It's not about doing the right thing for a little girl for Kenny but about whether or not these people are worth his favor, worth his effort.
So when you ask who Kenny sees as being more of a "villain", you're asking which one of the two women opposed Kenny's defined, unbending ideals in the most marking way. As many have said already, it was definitely Jane, but not because of some intrinsic moral degradation in her action, but because it strongly opposed him, his ideals and his goals.
The mark Lilly left on Kenny pales in comparison to the effect of Jane's actions in No Going Back. Lilly kills Carley/Doug in cold blood, but since so very little of Kenny's envision of the future relied on them he is extremely quick to brush it all aside and is even seen talking about Lilly in a rather amenable way a few days later. Fast forward to No Going Back and Kenny's whole future, his sole goal, his apparent only purpose surrounded AJ. Even the slightest, even if allegedly accidental, sign of sabotage on that future was all it took for Kenny to completely snap. Even after assessing that that future was never, in fact, at risk, Kenny still had Jane as far in the "against me" spectrum as possible, not even treating her as a person, a human really, but talking of her as a threat that needed to be purged and put down at all costs.
So to sum it up, Lilly's showdown with Carley's/Doug's face is not even comparable to the pain and rage Jane's actions inflicted on Kenny, not because her actions broke a moral code but because they threatened what Kenny wanted.
I don't think Kenny sees "good" and "bad" in the conventional sense. His "morality" or "should/shouldn't do" criteria has less to do with so… moreme defined moral code found in most people but rather whether one's opinions and actions align with his own ideals and goals or not. He does not concede. Ever. It's either you're with him or against him, no middle ground, no room for discussion. The moment where this is most apparent being when Kenny is confronted with the decision on whether or not to join Lee/the group on finding Clementine. The very game itself has a system that determines Kenny's choice, and it's all reliant on how often you sided with him throughout the Season. It's not about doing the right thing for a little girl for Kenny but about whether or not these people are worth his favor, worth his effort.
So when you ask who Kenny sees as being more of a "villain", you're asking which one of the two women opposed Kenny's defined, unben… [view original content]
Comments
Okay wow not trying to get into an abortion argument here but Jane had sex with Luke like.... 2 or 3 days prior? Does not necessarily make her a "pregnant" woman, Jane didn't even know and Kenny certainly didn't know. Regardless there was no developed fetus inside her at that point anyways.
And saying that Jane's fate was Telltale's writing flaw is ridiculous, Jane was shown to be selfish and depressed in season 2 so her fate where she leaves a child to take care of a baby is rather in character.
Even if Jane tried to stop Kenny it wouldn't work and she wanted to fight him,you can clearly see Kenny lost his mind at this point.
I still don't know if i like this scene or hate it there's so many things that doesn't make sense,
i actually think they should have went with a final choice to save Kenny or Luke.
Lol oh please just don't try to defend what they did this was stupid there was other ways to kill her if they wanted i'm sure they probably went on youtube and saw the theory with Jane being pregnant and were like "ok guys let's do that who cares about Jane it's not like people will be upset lol"
Her death is not even heroic like Kenny this is literally a middle finger from Telltale to all the people who liked her.
Why are you pretending she is a hero and not a person who left her sister to die, called leaving a young traumatized girl to die the "right decision, wanted to rob a stranger, and pretended that a baby was dead in order to provoke a deadly confrontation and prove a point? Jane was a horrible person who had her own interests at heart and her death is fitting considering how selfish she was and how much she disliked children.
Yeah well Kenny wasn't a hero either he did a lot of things that weren't really "heroic" i know you probably love him and i do too but that doesn't excuse what Telltale did to Jane.
Seriously they killed her like she was nothing she didn't even leave a note for Clementine (she cared about Clementine) no she just died like that.She didn't hated children she cared a lot about Clementine otherwise she wouldn't have come back for her.
The theory of her being pregnant by Troy/Luke was definitely a common one; her committing suicide after realizing it was like, " What."
Her committing suicide by literally hanging herself, combined with the way it was preceded and especially revealed, was narmy as shit though.
Funny you say that considering that was the most likely of two ways I saw her dying.
Kenny made some difficult decisions but that's what you have to do to survive in the Walking Dead. Good guys like Lee, Rick Grimes, even Clementine had to make some not nice decisions in order to protect other people. The not nice things that Kenny did doesn't take away from the fact that he always tried protecting others, even if they didn't realize it or appreciate it. And Kenny never left children to die or toyed with people's emotions to prove a point.
And Jane saw Clementine as less of a child and more of a capable version of her dead sister. She was trying to fill that void of shame and guilt that she felt after Jaime died, but her lessons were very twisted such as telling Clem to leave her friends behind and to only look out for herself. Jane looked at all the other children like AJ and Sarah with disgust which explains why she simply gave up and killed herself instead of sticking it out for the people she claimed to care about so much.
You make some good points but i can't accept what they did
Yeah she tell Clem to look out for herself but she's not really wrong trusting people in the apocalypse is really dangerous and she saw that Kenny was dangerous and would snap everytime something bad was happening (Kenny is a good guy but he really can't control his anger)
then in Season 3 there's a flashback where Kenny is completely happy and he died protecting Clem and AJ.
And Jane died hanging herself just because she's pregnant ? You see there's something not right with that,you're trying to find an excuse for Jane's death but they wanted to get rid of them and this was just fucking stupid.
Even if you hate Jane i don't know how you can accept how stupid her death was,Telltale did not care about these characters we loved in season 2 (and let's not forget how awful they looked) and just decided to kill them because they couldn't bother finding a way to keep them alive.
Kenny was angry because he was in a group that essentially dragged him into the Carver situation which resulted in him losing his home, his friends, even his eyeball. And then when he picks himself back up and takes care of the baby and looks after the group they act like he's some crazy asshole. I would be angry in that environment as well. In the s3 flashback he finds redemption and happiness taking care of the kids without some shitbird robbing them or talking behind his back.
I'm not saying it wasn't stupid for Telltale to kill off the s2 endings in 5 minutes, because it was stupid and downright lazy and offensive to fans of the series. I'm just saying that Kenny and Jane's were still in character, because they were.
The problem for me was how pathetic and lazy her death was like you said.
And Yes this was out of character,
Jane teached Clem how to survive, to not trust people all these years,lie about the baby's death and fight Kenny to prove a point (she admit that was stupid but she did it because she wanted to protect Clem) and after all this that's what she get ?
She was a survivor who deserved to went out with a fight.
This wasn't even hard to do if Telltale didn't care about her just let her fight against the family and say goodbye to Clem and AJ.You see Clem leave and Jane's dying and that's it.
Yeah her death is so fucking depressing and out of nowhere i don't understand how Clem is still alive in that ending she lost Jane who decided to commit suicide and had to shoot her (determinantly) and she's left with a baby all alone,
but there's also a lot of things i don't understand about this game so yeah..
I agree completely. I like them both equally great points.
how exactly would it not work her to simply say that AJ s alive and in the car?
Kenny don't always think when he act so when he saw Jane without the baby it was over if you told Kenny to "listen to her" he said he's done talking.
@Veeeee
Are you still trying to argue with me or something? If that's the case you'll be disappointed i'm done arguing on this thread.
Arguing? Debating more like. You didn’t reply to my post from days ago which is why i tagged you. I didn’t know you had read it. A simple reply saying you didn’t want to discuss it would have been fine, jeez!
Forgot to make this a reply @dan290786
I SUMMON YOU!
We're both competitive and like to be right. We could easily debate this topic for months on end if we really wanted to. Personally I would rather spend my time discussing other things. Too da loo!
Kinda like Kenny!
Lol thank you, that’s all i ask
i only replied to counter what you said or more so give you another perspective. Neither is right or wrong.
Yep
Lilly was kind of alright until she killed Carly/Doug. I hated Jane from the start, wanting to leave Sarah, pretending that AJ had died so that she could kill Kenny, which is horrible. Jane is definitely the worst.
there's no sence in this discussion. Just make people arguing.. #$h1tDiscussions
I don't think Kenny sees "good" and "bad" in the conventional sense. His "morality" or "should/shouldn't do" criteria has less to do with some defined moral code found in most people but rather whether one's opinions and actions align with his own ideals and goals or not. He does not concede. Ever. It's either you're with him or against him, no middle ground, no room for discussion. The moment where this is most apparent being when Kenny is confronted with the decision on whether or not to join Lee/the group on finding Clementine. The very game itself has a system that determines Kenny's choice, and it's all reliant on how often you sided with him throughout the Season. It's not about doing the right thing for a little girl for Kenny but about whether or not these people are worth his favor, worth his effort.
So when you ask who Kenny sees as being more of a "villain", you're asking which one of the two women opposed Kenny's defined, unbending ideals in the most marking way. As many have said already, it was definitely Jane, but not because of some intrinsic moral degradation in her action, but because it strongly opposed him, his ideals and his goals.
The mark Lilly left on Kenny pales in comparison to the effect of Jane's actions in No Going Back. Lilly kills Carley/Doug in cold blood, but since so very little of Kenny's envision of the future relied on them he is extremely quick to brush it all aside and is even seen talking about Lilly in a rather amenable way a few days later. Fast forward to No Going Back and Kenny's whole future, his sole goal, his apparent only purpose surrounded AJ. Even the slightest, even if allegedly accidental, sign of sabotage on that future was all it took for Kenny to completely snap. Even after assessing that that future was never, in fact, at risk, Kenny still had Jane as far in the "against me" spectrum as possible, not even treating her as a person, a human really, but talking of her as a threat that needed to be purged and put down at all costs.
So to sum it up, Lilly's showdown with Carley's/Doug's face is not even comparable to the pain and rage Jane's actions inflicted on Kenny, not because her actions broke a moral code but because they threatened what Kenny wanted.
That is a pretty direct way of putting it, yes.