If You Hate AJ, You HATE Clementine.
The amount of animosity I've seen towards AJ is gut wrenching. I know to some of you, he's just this lability and all, but the anger against him is getting annoying. Lots of you, want him to just die, be abandoned, even wished Clem abandoned him in S2! My point is, if you hate Alvin Jr, you HAVE to hate Clementine too.
Ok, so Lee wasn't there when Diane gave birth to Clementine, or sheltered her from angry Russian Mob gunfire, big whoop. But that does not erase the fact that he took a hopeless child under his wing and kept her under his supervision to the best of his abilities. Remind you of anyone in particular? Season 1's Clementine was just as much as a liability as AJ. You were responsible to feed her, shelter her, protect her from the dead and living, putting your own life at risk. And for what? His morals. Lee knew with what little he's seen, leaving an innocent child to fend for themselves was cowardice. So he took it upon himself to do what was only right and protect the child! Yes, some can argue Clementine was ultimately his downfall, but in a eerie way, they helped each other.
Now, from what she was taught in Season 2, Clementine meets a rather similar fate. Putting herself in the shoes of her guardian. Throughout my playthrough of Season 1, I took it upon myself to make sure, whatever becomes of Lee in his final stages, Clem knows he loves her, and to always have a heart. To say Rebecca just dumped AJ into Clem's life is like saying it's her fault she died. In her dying days, Rebecca didn't give anyone permission to be the guardian or say "Hey, (you) If I die (you) specifically have responsibility over AJ". It was an unfortunate demise but also inevitable. So what does Clementine choose to do? Use what she's learned from her upbringing in Season 1 in this now common world. Which is Morality. So if you in your right mind(s) come to the conclusion that Alvin Jr is a "waste of space" or a "liability", then you've never understood the true meaning behind Season 1 or you're just trying to blend in the "popular conversation".
I don't know what Clementine's religious beliefs are, but when someone very dear to us dies, we all like to think they're still watching over us somewhere. I like to imagine Clem thinking to herself, "What would Lee do?" or "I wonder if Lee's proud of me". I'd like to think he would be. We've all seen Clem sacrifice her life multiple times to aide AJ, same applies to Lee, but for Clem. So to Clementine, do you think AJ's just a liability? Does she think she was a liability to Lee? Did Lee think of Clem as a liability? In many ways, Clem & AJ are one in the same. Therefore the title of this discussion stands.
DEATH TO DOUBLE STANDARDS!!!
Comments
....I guess I hate Clementine then
Did I change your aspects on anything? Or have you always hated her?
Edit: Never mind, just caught the "joke"
That is still one of the reasons why ANF is shit. Instead of developing AJ's character, we were forced to care for shitty characters nobody asked for.
I think the problem people had in the past with s2 and s3 Aj is that he and Clem didn't have that much interaction. (Which is logical cause he was a baby and young) But after seeing the demo, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Their relationship is actually interesting. The people who hate Aj or his relationship with Clem will eventually accept it and maybe like it when the final season unfolds.
*Mini-Jane
Yuck!
I never hated her, just really disliked how she hasn't died already. You did open my eyes to the fact that AJ is no different from Clementine in S1, as they were both helpless and needed someone to look after them. But if me hating AJ because he's basically parasitic to Clementine, the same way Clementine was once parasitic to Lee, so be it.
It's all of the hate and death wished upon him for not being "fully developed" that irks me the most. If people had just said "Hey, develop this kid more!" instead of "I don't care if he dies", I would've been okay.
*Mini-migraine
MyClementine was a mistake.
I understand. But in Telltale's defense, they really had no idea her character would've been this big of a deal. I wouldn't necessarily call it a "cash-grab", but them catering to the fanbase.
Did you go with Jane?
I don't know how well S1,S2, and ANF sold compared to Michonne, but if they sold more, then she's probably a cash grab. I wonder how many episodes ANF would've sold if Clementine wasn't in it.
Oddly enough, I played ANF I think a year late because I didn't even recognize Clem. I thought ANF was a game made from an entirely different company capitalizing off of Telltale.
I'm sure that most people who disliked Aj in the past will like him in the final season. He actually interacts now with Clem and begins (or already has) to develop an personality. It may take some time, but most players will eventually like him after episode 1. I'm positive about that.
The problem is we have absolutely no reason to care about AJ considering he was absent for 98% percent of ANF and came in midway through S2 as an infant with no character, dialogue, etc. Clementine we developed an emotional connection with and a relationship not just as Lee, but as a player for the journey we undertook with her. With AJ, he debuted mid way through the season as a newborn infant obviously lacking any character or depth to him. Our journey with him was more of a burden and hardship than a developing relationship. Every character we as players have come to love and hate has been molded by the interactions, stories and relationships we've developed with those characters. From what I've seen of AJ in the final season, I do not like him regardless of the justification of his character's personality as this is the most I have to go on. You're comparing a literal newborn baby who was an absolute burden from birth to a 7-8 year old girl we found in a treehouse who helped us kill the attacking walker in the house the first time we saw her. Also if the only reason you have to like a character is purely due to another characters attachment speaks volume about that character's personality and character.
Hell fucking no. She's my most hated character in this entire series. I even watched Kenny kill her, and talked shit about her, afterwards. My point is that there should have never been this whole "Muh-Clementine" thing. As it has completely turned this once amazing character, into something that has now become unrecognizable.
If you want my opinion, that's why me and other people don't care about her anymore, and just want her to die.
I don't know how you can hate Jane more than Eleanor, someone who did not respect her "friends" enough to keep what they were doing a secret, and told Joan what they were up to. Very well, then. If Jane's at the top of your shitlist, so be it.
I see what you're saying. Then again ANF wasn't meant to be centered around Clem & AJ at all. They probably happened to just show up rushed by the writers for shock value rather than have some depth in Season 3. Also him not talking can be another mistake by the writers. Shockingly enough some players find being vague/mysterious to be intriguing.
Again in an eerie way, they coexist. It may sound like a reach but Clem is what gave Lee the drive to actually fight for something other than himself. Lee doesn't seem like a self centered person, nor is Clem. Not everything from S1 to now - referring to the relationships, have to have similar scenarios to have the same feel. Again sorry if it comes off as a reach.
And I personally have the same feelings as Kenny towards AJ, not just because Clem loves him, but because how it made me feel to see a child born and be given the task to raise him. Might I add, a task I can either abandon or step up to. Given I've played Season 1 a few times, shunning AJ would be like shunning Clementine.
Ohhh okay, okay gotcha. I've had my share of watching Jane die numerous times
I don't know, I hate Jane with every fiber in my body the most. Also Lily. And everyone at Howe's. And Jane. Then Eleanor, that Benedict!!
I don't like Eleanor either, but Jane deliberately did far more worse things than her. Plus, ANF is a parody game, not meant to be taken seriously.
Hopefully you're right and feelings change this season. He has a lot of potential this upcoming season to be amongst some of the greatest characters in this franchise. Plus I don't remember if I ever wanted anyone to die for not talking lol.
Why can't everyone see this?!?!
Haha, right on!
I can understand that. Nobody likes a conniving weasel with their own secret agendas.
I don't hate Liy in the slightest bit. Lily's a great person.
My hate towards Lily stems from her being the female Larry, but twice as worse. She literally murdered Carley/Doug because they told her off. She couldn't handle the slightest amount of embarrassment in front of a crowd, or being thought of as less, so she kills them for revenge... Then! if you decide to have her return to the RV, she steals it! Why?! 2 children and your own group! I left her for the wolves.
Is this about not liking AJ in TFS or ANF? FInal Season Aj is finally a character and something that (hopefully) we will care about. Not caring about Aj in ANF is perfectly fine, he doesnt do anything, we dont spend enough time with him for us to care for him in anyway, which is why most people just didnt care or get behind it. He was just a plot device that the players were just told they had to care about, without given a reason to care about.
If I hate apples do I hate Clem? Clementine loves apples but I have never cared for them.
Honestly, the only bad thing Jane ever really did was trying to leave Kenny in the cold, and picking a fight with Kenny by pretending AJ was dead. Leaving him for dead was inexcusable. Trying to prove a point that the obviously unstable man is unstable, and would lose his shit if angered was really uncalled for. However, she never really meant for anyone to die. You can see she put her knife away once Kenny showed signs of backing down. Anything she had done after that was done in self defense.
Eleanor on the other hand, violated the sanctity of The Team's plan by exchanging words with Joan about what they had planned. She wasn't stupid. She knew she would've gotten them killed. She saw what Joan's squad of reprobates did to Mariana. She saw how they almost killed Kate. Yet, she threw caution to the wind, and told Joan about their plan, all because she "didn't want to leave".
Y'all need to chill on both sides
Wait till ep 1 comes out before you start saying you hate him
I say they killed themselves. Who in the right mind would talk shit to the person who has a bad temper, AND is holding a gun, when they're accusing you of dealing with the bandits???? Also, Doug jumped in the line of fire, so that's entirely on him
No, you don't. For me, I have no attachment to AJ. To me, he's just a boring plot devise.
@Dex-Starr
Now you're sounding like you're on Team Jane. Is that the case?
Luke clearly says that Jane made an offer.
For all we know, he could've unzipped his pants, made his dick fly out and said "Damn it, not again! This is the 3rd time that happened this week. I guess it's been so long since....you know." before she offered him some. We'll never truly know the full story behind it.
I like to sit on the fence when it comes to liking/disliking characters based on their actions.
For some people it's because she love AJ a bit too much. Knowing every time his life is in danger, Clem will most likely put herself in danger too to put him out off harm's way. Having the mother's heart toward someone is something that can be very dangerous especially in a world like this.
lol no. Clem and AJ are nothing alike. I hated the very idea of AJ from the moment Clem got stuck with him. Not only did he turn into a lazy plot device, she was much too young to be stuck caring for a baby in a zombie apocalypse. She'd have had to scavenge for formula to feed him until he was old enough for solid foods, which would put her in unnecessary danger. Babies cry a lot and cannot be reasoned with, which would draw walkers from all around. I'm sure that the only reason AJ never cried much in the games is because TellTale realized having him cry like a normal baby would ruin any semblance of realism because either they'd have to have no walkers around or they'd have to have the walkers suddenly be deaf. Without her plot armor she would have died tried to get formula for him or just because he was dirty, or gassy, or tired, or any number of reasons why infants cry inconsolably. I actually hate him less now that he's a talking person and can be helpful, but the fact remains she never should have been stuck with him in the first place.
...You know... I can actually believe that, seeing as we're talking about Luke here. Although that raises even more questions about him, seeing as how Season Two goes on for about a week.
Guess I have more hate for characters that clearly want others dead, rather than ones that unintentionally get others killed.
I guess a lot of people who dislike AJ or only view him as a burden is because their mindset is focused mainly on survival and not relationships. I’m in the minority when it comes to AJ. I actually grew fond of him ever since he was born in S2. He was a sign of hope. He was the light that overshadowed darkness. Now in ANF I was pretty upset that we didn’t get to explore the familial dynamic/relatinship between Clementine and AJ for people to get attached to him. The Final Season may change the players’ opinion about AJ since he has proven that he is no longer a liability and is able to help in things such as scavenging and combat based on the 15-minute gameplay.