i find that tree in the middle of the street way more disturbing they must really have fucked something up, How on earth did that tree grow right there in the middle of the street.
Season 2, will be about how to get the tree back to the sidewalk. First they will have to find out what year the tree was planted, who planted it, and what caused it to move to the street.
Sometimes tree's can really be annoying lol
There's a tree growing about half a meter into the road just around the corner from my house <.<
Though to be more accurate, I suppose the road was made around the tree. That tree has gotta be old.
Here how I figure the new alternate timeline.
Marty was hanging out at Docs garage sale, while Doc was currently away.
He hears the Delorean arriving, but when he look at it Doc isn't in it.
He still has the shoe and Einstein, so he will arrive at Ednas place.
He still finds a newspaper that tells him that Carl Sagan was arrested.
(Not the one claiming that he was killed obviously)
So he travels back, saves Doc yadda yadda yadda.
Back in 1986 Doc has to go to the ceremony that gives him the key to the city.
He looks at the old newspaper.
Realizing that it is from Marty he travels back, but of course has no idea why Marty went back to 1931, since they just left there.
I'm now of the view that the new Doc hasn't experianced the events of Episodes 1 and 2. When he comes to pick up Marty, he doesn't ask "How did you get back to 1931? We just came back from there and the Delorean's been with me ever since". He asks "What are you doing in 1931?" and Marty begins to explain what happened in Episodes 1 and 2. He says "I came to rescue YOU". And when Doc asks "Teenage me?", Marty says "No...YOU you! You were in jail..."...so he's obviously trying to explain to Doc that he was rescuing another version of him from jail originally.
Speaking of which, is there any point in Episodes 1 and 2, where the original Doc mentions travelling back to discover who the speakeasy arsonist was? I always figured that it was just fan speculation about Doc's original intent to travel back to 1931.
Also, I seem to recall in the end, in the new timeline, George mentions that Marty said he went on a trip to find something...so it seems like even in the new timeline, Marty did tell George he had to go somewhere...that does kinda ruin the idea I had that he suddenly disappeared from 1986.
Speaking of which, is there any point in Episodes 1 and 2, where the original Doc mentions travelling back to discover who the speakeasy arsonist was? I always figured that it was just fan speculation about Doc's original intent to travel back to 1931.
Doc is very vague, but I think his excuses involved picking up things for Clara as well as curiousity about who burned down the speakeasy. I think he went there to get the info and decided to check the unsolved fire out while he was in the right time, which got him arrested. I don't think the risk of getting in the arsonist's way (which he did, in the end) or trapped in the fire would have warranted a trip all on its own.
Doc is very vague, but I think his excuses involved picking up things for Clara as well as curiousity about who burned down the speakeasy. I think he went there to get the info and decided to check the unsolved fire out while he was in the right time, which got him arrested. I don't think the risk of getting in the arsonist's way (which he did, in the end) or trapped in the fire would have warranted a trip all on its own.
I seem to recall Doc being very evasive about the whole issue...claiming its personal or something.
I'm now of the view that the new Doc hasn't experianced the events of Episodes 1 and 2. When he comes to pick up Marty, he doesn't ask "How did you get back to 1931? We just came back from there and the Delorean's been with me ever since". He asks "What are you doing in 1931?" and Marty begins to explain what happened in Episodes 1 and 2. He says "I came to rescue YOU". And when Doc asks "Teenage me?", Marty says "No...YOU you! You were in jail..."...so he's obviously trying to explain to Doc that he was rescuing another version of him from jail originally.
Also, I seem to recall in the end, in the new timeline, George mentions that Marty said he went on a trip to find something...so it seems like even in the new timeline, Marty did tell George he had to go somewhere...that does kinda ruin the idea I had that he suddenly disappeared from 1986.
I agree with you about Doc not experiencing the events of episodes one and two. Does anyone remember any of the other responses to Doc asking 'What are you doing in 1931' because i did that one too.
As for what George said, I think this could mean that Marty did go to 1931 after all. Maybe he sore the newspaper of Doc being jailed or something. Or maybe he disappeared as soon as he went back to 1931.
As far as real life is concerned the simple answer is that at the very least you have Burger King and Toys R Us on that street (not to mention countless other businesses). Securing the rights to use all those names would have been a ton of time, work and money on Telltale's part for a shot that we see for roughly 10-15 seconds. Granted they could have done what they did with the Twin/Lone Pine mall scene and just changed the names to similar sounding ones. However it still would have been quite a bit of effort.
Storywise when you consider the most recent changes to the timeline it makes sense that Riverside/JFK Drive would become a residential neighborhood as opposed to a commerical district. We can't see directly if Doc's mansion is there or not so it's possible it still burned down, he still converted the garage into a workshop, ect. However the home was back and away from the garage so it's entirely possible that it's there.....we just don't see it. Granted it doesn't explain why Doc's driveway still has painted yellow lines like it's the back of the BK parking lot but I think I have an answer for that: in this slightly altered timeline Doc is actually a much more respected member of the community now. Part of the result from this is that Doc oversees his father's property, the group that gives out the young scientist reward, ect. It's also entirely possible that with all the knowledge that Doc has that Brown Enterprises is actually a respectable business he runs out of the garage and that Doc does work for various people in town (hence the parking lines in his driveway)
Granted Doc did have his moments in the original films. For one thing there's the newspaper in part two that changed from saying he was commited to saying he was honored. However from what I could gather he was mainly considered to be the town joke. Strickland considers him dangerous, 1955 Doc in the original movie exclaims "I finally invented something that actually works!" and at the start of the game Doc (who is apparently already deeply in debt according to various bits of info in the first film) is getting foreclosed upon by the bank.
Now I understand that some folks may not like the fact that Telltale didn't take the time and effort to make the area around Doc's house look 100% like the film. However when you look at it from a story standpoint it all actually starts to make sense (Key to the City, able to afford living there, now a residential neighborhood, ect)
Truth be told, the whole thing about Doc being the town joke and being hated by everyone and considered crazy is more of a fan perception than anything...truth be told, we don't really see anyone's opinion of Doc in 1985 in the films, cept for Strickland's (and Strickland hardly has a favourable opinion of anyone). He seems to get along with most people in 1885 Hill Valley pretty well; he seems even friendly with the mayor and with the bartender. Its possible that Doc, while considered eccentric and maybe a bit kooky, wouldn't have been considered dangerous and a lunatic by everyone in Hill Valley. Otherwise he wouldn't have won a commendation from the mayor.
If its the key to the city it was awarded in a timeline where his father, a respected citizen, promotes and supports his sons work and so he probably would be more respected in that time line and not the town crackpot.
I agree with you about Doc not experiencing the events of episodes one and two. Does anyone remember any of the other responses to Doc asking 'What are you doing in 1931' because i did that one too.
As for what George said, I think this could mean that Marty did go to 1931 after all. Maybe he sore the newspaper of Doc being jailed or something. Or maybe he disappeared as soon as he went back to 1931.
Possible.
I suppose one possibility is that Marty sees the Delorean appear outside Doc's garage (he's helping set up the garage sale...Doc, Clara and the kids are probably at the key ceremony or preparing for it or something). He sees Einstien inside it and he hears the message. He assumes that perhaps a past or future version of the Doc he knows is stuck somewhere in the past (even though he knows that Doc is currently in the present) and needs help. If its a past version, then perhaps the existence of the present Doc depends on it (which it kinda does actually, albeit in a far more convoluted manner). Maybe Marty doesn't want to disturb Doc at the key ceremony...maybe he feels its better he goes to rescue Doc alone rather than bringing the one in the present along (there's the whole 'meeting your other self' thing they need to avoid)...maybe he's just dying to go on a time travel adventure on his own, which he hasn't for 6 months...so he decides to handle this on his own. He has Einstien track Edna using the shoe. Edna's probably more helpful...she's glad she got the shoe back. She probably mentions she lost it on the day of the speakeasy fire (yeah I know she's the arsonist, but that didn't stop her from mentioning the incident in the 'original' timeline)...Marty probably finds the paper which mentions something along the lines of the speakeasy arsonist Carl Sagan having escaped from jail (I dunno what that particular paper showed after the final sequence of events on June 13th 1931)...maybe he figures out that he was 'meant' to help Doc escape or not...anyways, he has a date. So he decides to head back to save this 'other Doc' and tells his father he's going on a trip to find something (like he does in the actual game)...he then goes back in time and is instantly replaced by the Marty who saw the article of Carl Sagan being gunned down, and who met the mean and lonely Edna.
The only problem is that when Marty and Doc return in the end, Edna is seen walking Einstien and she doesn't for a momment mention the fact that Marty was at her house the previous day, having returned her long lost shoe and enquiring about a fifty five year old speakeasy fire...
If its the key to the city it was awarded in a timeline where his father, a respected citizen, promotes and supports his sons work and so he probably would be more respected in that time line and not the town crackpot.
I'm referring to BTTF2...in the scene where Marty burns the Almanac, the ripple effect changes the newspaper Doc is holding to reflect the Lone Pine timeline again...so it changes from EMMETT BROWN COMMITTED to EMMETT BROWN COMMENDED and shows a picture of him outside the mayor's office, and a caption which mentions his winning a civic award.
So Doc met with at least some success in a timeline prior to the one at the end of this game.
thats not wat im saying im saying that doc shoulden't be there in the first place because of hill valley burning down
yes but you are forgetting that the time stream hasn't caught up with them yet. This means that by Doc's calculations they had about an hour before they got erased. I guess they didn't erase with the rest of Hill Valley because the Brown's and Mcfly's arrived in Hill Valley after 1876. This means that Doc and Marty still had time to fix things.
I agree with sn939. We seem to be in the minority of believing that Doc wasn't necessarily considered a "crackpot" by everyone in Hill Valley. The only people we see express negative opinions of him are Mr. Strickland and Biff Tannen, both of who are not exactly the nicest and most tolerant people in the world to begin with.
I'm referring to BTTF2...in the scene where Marty burns the Almanac, the ripple effect changes the newspaper Doc is holding to reflect the Lone Pine timeline again...so it changes from EMMETT BROWN COMMITTED to EMMETT BROWN COMMENDED and shows a picture of him outside the mayor's office, and a caption which mentions his winning a civic award.
So Doc met with at least some success in a timeline prior to the one at the end of this game.
Oh right. I got a little confused there.
I wonder why he got commended. Maybe it was for some cool invention that we never heard about. Maybe he finally perfected the mind reading helmet :P
I agree with you about Doc not experiencing the events of episodes one and two. Does anyone remember any of the other responses to Doc asking 'What are you doing in 1931' because i did that one too.
When Marty answered "I came to stop you from marrying Edna" Doc mentions that he never saw her again after the science expo (which was why he was surprised at seeing her when he got home). So I assume that this Doc comes from a time where Edna ended up in 19th century Hill Valley, but didn't set fire yet.
When Marty answered "I came to stop you from marrying Edna" Doc mentions that he never saw her again after the science expo (which was why he was surprised at seeing her when he got home). So I assume that this Doc comes from a time where Edna ended up in 19th century Hill Valley, but didn't set fire yet.
No...he came from the timeline where Edna had just driven off in the Delorean...and God knows what happened next...
It's kinda confusing actually, since timelines get overwritten rapidly in that part. We have Edna stealing the Delorean and driving off. At that instant, young Emmett is inspired to forever tread the path of science on his own terms, thus erasing the FCB timeline, causing FCB Doc to be erased. Emmett's decision not only erases the FCB timeline, but replaces it with a new timeline closer to the normal LP/Eastwood timeline albeit with subtle differences-the change being instantaneous. After Marty has his last conversation with young Emmett and hands him the newspaper cutting, Emmett goes inside. Now, the logical extrapolation of that moment, in 1986, is a reality where Doc eventually reads the newspaper cutting, puts two and two together, and goes back in time to that moment to catch up with Marty. He arrives back at a time just minutes before Edna hits 88 miles per hour and erases both the timeline Doc has come from and the timeline he created by coming back for Marty...
Of course, how the timeline Doc came from could even exist, however briefly, is a bit confusing...the future at any point of time is the logical extrapolation of events happening in the present, and time traveller's (or anyone with knowledge of the future) literally change the future with every action of theirs in the past...so, the future, as of the instant when Emmett chose to become a scientist, would be the timeline Doc came from...but at the same instant when Emmett chose to become a scientist, Edna was rapidly nearing the 88 miles per hour mark...so shouldn't the 'logical extrapolation' be one where Edna's temporal displacement occured...and if that was the case, it should take into account the destruction of Hill Valley...or maybe the 'logical extrapolation' of a timeline cannot account for its own erasure...
I think the interesting question would be, what does Doc remember of Edna's fate in the timeline he came from...
No...he came from the timeline where Edna had just driven off in the Delorean...and God knows what happened next...
It's kinda confusing actually, since timelines get overwritten rapidly in that part. We have Edna stealing the Delorean and driving off. At that instant, young Emmett is inspired to forever tread the path of science on his own terms, thus erasing the FCB timeline, causing FCB Doc to be erased. Emmett's decision not only erases the FCB timeline, but replaces it with a new timeline closer to the normal LP/Eastwood timeline albeit with subtle differences-the change being instantaneous. After Marty has his last conversation with young Emmett and hands him the newspaper cutting, Emmett goes inside. Now, the logical extrapolation of that moment, in 1986, is a reality where Doc eventually reads the newspaper cutting, puts two and two together, and goes back in time to that moment to catch up with Marty. He arrives back at a time just minutes before Edna hits 88 miles per hour and erases both the timeline Doc has come from and the timeline he created by coming back for Marty...
Of course, how the timeline Doc came from could even exist, however briefly, is a bit confusing...the future at any point of time is the logical extrapolation of events happening in the present, and time traveller's (or anyone with knowledge of the future) literally change the future with every action of theirs in the past...so, the future, as of the instant when Emmett chose to become a scientist, would be the timeline Doc came from...but at the same instant when Emmett chose to become a scientist, Edna was rapidly nearing the 88 miles per hour mark...so shouldn't the 'logical extrapolation' be one where Edna's temporal displacement occured...and if that was the case, it should take into account the destruction of Hill Valley...or maybe the 'logical extrapolation' of a timeline cannot account for its own erasure...
I think the interesting question would be, what does Doc remember of Edna's fate in the timeline he came from...
actally no if edna was just getting to 88 mph and doc came it would still happen because edna has not done anything in the past yet. u can see this when danny is talking to marty and doc and he dissappers this is because edna must of just burned down hill valley at that moment when danny was talking and that caused the new timeline causing hill valley to start dissappering till its gone
its like what doc says the future is unwritten it means the timeline cant change unless its altered but if edna was only getten at 88 mph she was not put into the old west yet and so the timeline didnt change yet
so bottem line if edna didnt do anything to the past yet the timeline can't change
actally no if edna was just getting to 88 mph and doc came it would still happen because edna has not done anything in the past yet. u can see this when danny is talking to marty and doc and he dissappers this is because edna must of just burned down hill valley at that moment when danny was talking and that caused the new timeline causing hill valley to start dissappering till its gone
its like what doc says the future is unwritten it means the timeline cant change unless its altered but if edna was only getten at 88 mph she was not put into the old west yet and so the timeline didnt change yet
so bottem line if edna didnt do anything to the past yet the timeline can't change
Yeah, actually that's the only way to rationalize it IMO.
Although I wonder then, what was Edna's fate in the timeline Doc came from? Did the Delorean not hit 88 miles in that timeline, and was she arrested by Danny? Did the Delorean just disappear from that timeline?
In the end of episode 5, it shows that doc's house is in some type of neighborhood with a small street and plenty of trees. In the first movie, Doc lived in a Buger King parking lot next to a main road in Hill Valley with lots of stores and two story buildings. The only thing that I can get out of this is that Doc went back in time and sold his land (Where his house was burnt down at) to a different company that wanted to build houses, or Telltale didn't want to make so many models of buildings so they made a small neighborhood instead. What do you think happened?
Yeah, actually that's the only way to rationalize it IMO.
Although I wonder then, what was Edna's fate in the timeline Doc came from? Did the Delorean not hit 88 miles in that timeline, and was she arrested by Danny? Did the Delorean just disappear from that timeline?
i think that ether she got out of hill valley shown from what doc says that he never saw her again after the expo and just was the way she was in ep 1 when she was old or danny got her and threw her in jail
i think that ether she got out of hill valley shown from what doc says that he never saw her again after the expo and just was the way she was in ep 1 when she was old or danny got her and threw her in jail
She can't of gone to jail because that happened at the end of the episode and Doc didn't know what was going on.
At the end of the episode it seems that Doc disappears as soon as they drive the delorean back to 1986 (good thing marty was driving although i guess it makes no difference). Given that we know doc is not dead, how on earth does this fit the rules of BTTF time travel? I'm assuming it happened because his timeline changed but we've now seen 2 instances of doc and marty returning to the present with an alternate timeline (part II and episode 2) and they did not disappear. And even if they are writing new rules, why did doc disappear and not Marty since his timeline would have to have changed as well?
I agree. We've seen Doc and Marty in the movies arrive in several alternate versions of 1985 . 1st time at the end of first movie Marty returns to a cooler family and biff as a servant and a truck but physically he's the same and he remembers the old time line where his family are lame failures and he doesn't remember the new timeline. Same thing happens in the 2nd movie when 2015 Biff Tannen changes history to make himself rich and powerful and both Marty and Doc come to the corrupt 1985 and the world is changed but they themselves as time travelers are not.
The only time we see time things alter the time travelers is when they do something that wipes them completely out of existence. This also happened in game when 1931 Kid Tannens history was changed and the alternate 1986 was run by the Tannen Mob. Again both Marty and Doc were not changed.
So why in episode 3 and 4 of the game when Doc's history in 1931 was changed and he didn't become an inventory, why did the old Doc disappear this time and if history was so changed that he couldn't exist anymore then why did Mart remain the same and how did the Delorean as a time machine continue to exist?
Don't get me wrong, I like the alternate Doc interaction, I just think we needed an in game explanation for why this time was an exception for Doc.
We have very elaborate and headaching conversations in brainstorming meetings and conference calls with Bob Gale about these things.
The mechanic here is that when they ditch 1931, the timeline in which Doc (and maybe Einstein, too) has gone through rejuvination in 2015 is gone. So, Doc, in this new timeline, has not lived a preternaturally long life. First instinct is to say, "ahah! But Doc would have been alive at age 72 by 1986!" And that's the case for Citizen Brown. But the Doc we have been spending time with has probably lived over a hundred years by now through various time travelling escapades with Claire and the kids. Without the rejuvination, he has ceased to exist. Being retroactively-dead comes with different rules than being uncreated.
Ultimately... I don't think there is anything that we could do in a BttF story, constantly twisting and turning, that wouldn't have some sort of temporal ruleset violations. But we do the best we can to tell a good story.
Ok... can I stop explaining this now? :P
As for how all of this effects the characters and gets resolved... well... 3 more episodes to go!
OK, that rejuvenation thing does sort of explain why doc would have disappeared this time. I forgot about him traveling to the future for rejuvenation treatments. I guess with him being retroactively dead reality would allow the alternate Emmet Brown to exist instead of the timetraveler. I guess. That explanation also explains why Marty did not disappeared since his age his contemporary to the alternate Marty'y age. If he ever becomes old and uses rejuvenation from the future that may change. At least this explanation is good enough to use. Thanks.
OK, that rejuvenation thing does sort of explain why doc would have disappeared this time. I forgot about him traveling to the future for rejuvenation treatments. I guess with him being retroactively dead reality would allow the alternate Emmet Brown to exist instead of the timetraveler. I guess. That explanation also explains why Marty did not disappeared since his age his contemporary to the alternate Marty'y age. If he ever becomes old and uses rejuvenation from the future that may change. At least this explanation is good enough to use. Thanks.
While it is an explanation...its not completely good enough.
Doc (according to the games at least), would be 72 in 1986, chronologically and naturally. However, he has lived an extra ten years in the Old West, so that would make him 82 chronologically. Now, while it is entirely possible he would have died at age 82 in the natural course of events, he may equally have also survived. I don't see why the timeline suddenly decided that 'our' Doc couldn't live at the chronological age of 82, based on a possible 'prediction' of FCB Doc's death in the next ten years of the FCB timeline (which itself would be impossible since the future isn't written).
And even if its impossible for FCB Doc to be alive at age 82, why should this affect 'our' Doc...given that he is merely a time traveller from an erased timeline. If he is erased, it will be gradual, like how 'our' Marty would be gradually erased.
Doc would've been more than 10 years older. Remember, he refers to Jules and Verne as teen-agers and he and Clara are deciding where to send them to college.
Doc would've been more than 10 years older. Remember, he refers to Jules and Verne as teen-agers and he and Clara are deciding where to send them to college.
Okay...still...people can live into their late 80's...
Even if 'our' Doc was 100...I don't see why he should get erased just because his counterpart in that reality didn't get any rejunevation treatment and couldn't (theoretically) live to that age...either Doc gets erased because he is an anomaly in the current timeline (in which case Marty should be erased as well), or he gets erased because there can't be two versions of him existing simultaneously (in which case, again, Marty should also be erased).
The future is unwritten but in the sense that is can be rewritten and that the future is uncertain. Like the newspapers and Polaroid photos they refer to in the films, they predict what occurs based on the events set in motion. But for a time traveler, if events are set in place that jeopardize your existence, then once you've passed a point of no return you fade out. Like Marty in 1955, his future was shaping as events were taking place deciding his existence. Doc has traveled to 1986 and because events as they stand dictate his future, he disappears because while in normal circumstances FCB could live to 100 he is far from being in such a circumstance because his wife (as we discover in episode 5 in the newspaper and her other antics) is a psychotic maniac consumed with power and likely plotting to do him in and take full control.
Doc traveled past 1985 where he originally departed for Rejuvenation treatment in 2015 and so because this event doesn't occur in the new timeline his validity at his age in that timeline is completely dependent on whether the order of events at the moment he arrives in 1986 dictate that FCB survives to an identical age. To which the timestream says "Nope sorry" and Doc fades like Biff after changing his timeline.
The future is unwritten but in the sense that is can be rewritten and that the future is uncertain. Like the newspapers and Polaroid photos they refer to in the films, they predict what occurs based on the events set in motion. But for a time traveler, if events are set in place that jeopardize your existence, then once you've passed a point of no return you fade out. Like Marty in 1955, his future was shaping as events were taking place deciding his existence. Doc has traveled to 1986 and because events as they stand dictate his future, he disappears because while in normal circumstances FCB could live to 100 he is far from being in such a circumstance because his wife (as we discover in episode 5 in the newspaper and her other antics) is a psychotic maniac consumed with power and likely plotting to do him in and take full control.
Doc traveled past 1985 where he originally departed for Rejuvenation treatment in 2015 and so because this event doesn't occur in the new timeline his validity at his age in that timeline is completely dependent on whether the order of events at the moment he arrives in 1986 dictate that FCB survives to an identical age. To which the timestream says "Nope sorry" and Doc fades like Biff after changing his timeline.
Okay, that sounds a bit more convincing.
But it still doesn't explain why 'our' Doc should be affected just because of the circumstances of FCB Doc's life...when Marty isn't affected by the circumstances of FCB Marty's life.
But it still doesn't explain why 'our' Doc should be affected just because of the circumstances of FCB Doc's life...when Marty isn't affected by the circumstances of FCB Marty's life.
Marty is a teenager from 1985/1986 so he wouldn't have the age/health problems as Doc/FCB, and it's clear that George and Lorraine still hook up and have three kids, so Marty's existance is assured. With the way FCB Hill Valley is run, violent crime and fatal accidents are nearly nonexistant, so there's also less chance of Marty possibly getting killed in that sort of thing.
Doc's continued existence hinges on him going into the future. Like you said, people can live to their late 80's and beyond, but don't forget that this was 1986, it's slightly less common than today. We also don't really know the full circumstances behind FCB's death. Perhaps he would've eventually found out about Edna's control, and Edna does the brainwashing or whatever and shortens his lifespan as a result?
But it still doesn't explain why 'our' Doc should be affected just because of the circumstances of FCB Doc's life...when Marty isn't affected by the circumstances of FCB Marty's life.
Maybe it's simply because FCB would be dead so Doc's fading out would only take a couple of minutes where as Marty's fading out may take a couple days (or maybe longer) because his counterpart is alive.
ok lets think at the end of ep 5 doc says he would never think of leaveing because he had to do his fathers thing but the reason he went to the future in bttf part 1 was he was gonna live in the future but if doc was never gonna leave hill valley because of doing the science thing for his father that means he would have never went to the future old biff would never have taken the delorean and biff would have never taken over hill valley and turned it into crap then marty and doc would have never went back in time again to stop old biff and take back the book so that means doc and the delorean never got hit with lighting and was not sent back to the old west so he would have never saved clara but in the end of ep 5 doc says to marty not to tell clara that he punched tannen so how could he have met clara
Doc never said he was going to LIVE in the future during the initial trilogy, in fact he even makes a point of how he almost forgot to bring plutonium and would never be able to get back. He's only visiting the future.
Doc never said he was going to LIVE in the future during the initial trilogy, in fact he even makes a point of how he almost forgot to bring plutonium and would never be able to get back. He's only visiting the future.
That...and the fact that Doc still WAS time travelling...he just had his family based in the 1980's. With time travel, it didn't matter how much time he spent in other eras...he could always return to 1985/6 at the time he left and resume his life.
But they aren't the same version! :rolleyes:
Doc A the original character from the films vanishes from existence, only to be later replaced by Doc A.1. Now Doc A.1 is the exact same as A except that A.1 has a better relationship with his father. Do you get it now?! :rolleyes:
Better late (reply) than never.
I didn't get what you were saying here. But now I do after having played OUTATIME directly. It wasn't told very well in the game.
The confusion of the character referred to here as "Doc A.1" just after Edna takes off makes no sense...but the fact that Doc/Clara are living in Doc's old place in 1986 does slightly make sense when put into the context of a slightly altered timelime with him reconciling with his father. The theory breaks down again when you think about the very beginning of part 1. It just creates more questions and I'm sure Telltale isn't bold enough to go this far.
Here's what we know.
The Brown family mansion burned down sometime after 1955. No definitive reason given as to why.
One might argue that this fire, now having played OUTATIME, could have been the result of a freak accident in the basement (remember, in the 30's Emmett's experiments were there). There's always the random chance theory, but I don't buy it. The questions here are multi-fold: Why would Doc not have prevented the incident? Or why would the incident even happen if Dad now approved of the experiments - one would think he'd set Doc up with an actual shop in a safer place. And are we seriously to believe that Doc, Clara, Einstein and two kids are perfectly comfortable living in a garage with all sorts of gadgets? Remember part 1: there was basically a bunk bed and little else. This would have more continuity if the Brown mansion were still intact in 1986 and the Brown family were living there. It doesn't add up that they're living in just a garage.
I didn't get what you were saying here. But now I do after having played OUTATIME directly. It wasn't told very well in the game.
The confusion of the character referred to here as "Doc A.1" just after Edna takes off makes no sense...but the fact that Doc/Clara are living in Doc's old place in 1986 does slightly make sense when put into the context of a slightly altered timelime with him reconciling with his father. The theory breaks down again when you think about the very beginning of part 1. It just creates more questions and I'm sure Telltale isn't bold enough to go this far.
Here's what we know.
The Brown family mansion burned down sometime after 1955. No definitive reason given as to why.
One might argue that this fire, now having played OUTATIME, could have been the result of a freak accident in the basement (remember, in the 30's Emmett's experiments were there). There's always the random chance theory, but I don't buy it. The questions here are multi-fold: Why would Doc not have prevented the incident? Or why would the incident even happen if Dad now approved of the experiments - one would think he'd set Doc up with an actual shop in a safer place. And are we seriously to believe that Doc, Clara, Einstein and two kids are perfectly comfortable living in a garage with all sorts of gadgets? Remember part 1: there was basically a bunk bed and little else. This would have more continuity if the Brown mansion were still intact in 1986 and the Brown family were living there. It doesn't add up that they're living in just a garage.
That's why I got confused.
Its possible the mansion still burnt down in 1962...and in the new timeline, Doc simply had a new house built somewhere, while retaining the garage as a workshop.
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There's a tree growing about half a meter into the road just around the corner from my house <.<
Though to be more accurate, I suppose the road was made around the tree. That tree has gotta be old.
I'm now of the view that the new Doc hasn't experianced the events of Episodes 1 and 2. When he comes to pick up Marty, he doesn't ask "How did you get back to 1931? We just came back from there and the Delorean's been with me ever since". He asks "What are you doing in 1931?" and Marty begins to explain what happened in Episodes 1 and 2. He says "I came to rescue YOU". And when Doc asks "Teenage me?", Marty says "No...YOU you! You were in jail..."...so he's obviously trying to explain to Doc that he was rescuing another version of him from jail originally.
Speaking of which, is there any point in Episodes 1 and 2, where the original Doc mentions travelling back to discover who the speakeasy arsonist was? I always figured that it was just fan speculation about Doc's original intent to travel back to 1931.
Also, I seem to recall in the end, in the new timeline, George mentions that Marty said he went on a trip to find something...so it seems like even in the new timeline, Marty did tell George he had to go somewhere...that does kinda ruin the idea I had that he suddenly disappeared from 1986.
Doc is very vague, but I think his excuses involved picking up things for Clara as well as curiousity about who burned down the speakeasy. I think he went there to get the info and decided to check the unsolved fire out while he was in the right time, which got him arrested. I don't think the risk of getting in the arsonist's way (which he did, in the end) or trapped in the fire would have warranted a trip all on its own.
I seem to recall Doc being very evasive about the whole issue...claiming its personal or something.
I agree with you about Doc not experiencing the events of episodes one and two. Does anyone remember any of the other responses to Doc asking 'What are you doing in 1931' because i did that one too.
As for what George said, I think this could mean that Marty did go to 1931 after all. Maybe he sore the newspaper of Doc being jailed or something. Or maybe he disappeared as soon as he went back to 1931.
Truth be told, the whole thing about Doc being the town joke and being hated by everyone and considered crazy is more of a fan perception than anything...truth be told, we don't really see anyone's opinion of Doc in 1985 in the films, cept for Strickland's (and Strickland hardly has a favourable opinion of anyone). He seems to get along with most people in 1885 Hill Valley pretty well; he seems even friendly with the mayor and with the bartender. Its possible that Doc, while considered eccentric and maybe a bit kooky, wouldn't have been considered dangerous and a lunatic by everyone in Hill Valley. Otherwise he wouldn't have won a commendation from the mayor.
If its the key to the city it was awarded in a timeline where his father, a respected citizen, promotes and supports his sons work and so he probably would be more respected in that time line and not the town crackpot.
Possible.
I suppose one possibility is that Marty sees the Delorean appear outside Doc's garage (he's helping set up the garage sale...Doc, Clara and the kids are probably at the key ceremony or preparing for it or something). He sees Einstien inside it and he hears the message. He assumes that perhaps a past or future version of the Doc he knows is stuck somewhere in the past (even though he knows that Doc is currently in the present) and needs help. If its a past version, then perhaps the existence of the present Doc depends on it (which it kinda does actually, albeit in a far more convoluted manner). Maybe Marty doesn't want to disturb Doc at the key ceremony...maybe he feels its better he goes to rescue Doc alone rather than bringing the one in the present along (there's the whole 'meeting your other self' thing they need to avoid)...maybe he's just dying to go on a time travel adventure on his own, which he hasn't for 6 months...so he decides to handle this on his own. He has Einstien track Edna using the shoe. Edna's probably more helpful...she's glad she got the shoe back. She probably mentions she lost it on the day of the speakeasy fire (yeah I know she's the arsonist, but that didn't stop her from mentioning the incident in the 'original' timeline)...Marty probably finds the paper which mentions something along the lines of the speakeasy arsonist Carl Sagan having escaped from jail (I dunno what that particular paper showed after the final sequence of events on June 13th 1931)...maybe he figures out that he was 'meant' to help Doc escape or not...anyways, he has a date. So he decides to head back to save this 'other Doc' and tells his father he's going on a trip to find something (like he does in the actual game)...he then goes back in time and is instantly replaced by the Marty who saw the article of Carl Sagan being gunned down, and who met the mean and lonely Edna.
The only problem is that when Marty and Doc return in the end, Edna is seen walking Einstien and she doesn't for a momment mention the fact that Marty was at her house the previous day, having returned her long lost shoe and enquiring about a fifty five year old speakeasy fire...
I'm referring to BTTF2...in the scene where Marty burns the Almanac, the ripple effect changes the newspaper Doc is holding to reflect the Lone Pine timeline again...so it changes from EMMETT BROWN COMMITTED to EMMETT BROWN COMMENDED and shows a picture of him outside the mayor's office, and a caption which mentions his winning a civic award.
So Doc met with at least some success in a timeline prior to the one at the end of this game.
Oh right. I got a little confused there.
I wonder why he got commended. Maybe it was for some cool invention that we never heard about. Maybe he finally perfected the mind reading helmet :P
When Marty answered "I came to stop you from marrying Edna" Doc mentions that he never saw her again after the science expo (which was why he was surprised at seeing her when he got home). So I assume that this Doc comes from a time where Edna ended up in 19th century Hill Valley, but didn't set fire yet.
No...he came from the timeline where Edna had just driven off in the Delorean...and God knows what happened next...
It's kinda confusing actually, since timelines get overwritten rapidly in that part. We have Edna stealing the Delorean and driving off. At that instant, young Emmett is inspired to forever tread the path of science on his own terms, thus erasing the FCB timeline, causing FCB Doc to be erased. Emmett's decision not only erases the FCB timeline, but replaces it with a new timeline closer to the normal LP/Eastwood timeline albeit with subtle differences-the change being instantaneous. After Marty has his last conversation with young Emmett and hands him the newspaper cutting, Emmett goes inside. Now, the logical extrapolation of that moment, in 1986, is a reality where Doc eventually reads the newspaper cutting, puts two and two together, and goes back in time to that moment to catch up with Marty. He arrives back at a time just minutes before Edna hits 88 miles per hour and erases both the timeline Doc has come from and the timeline he created by coming back for Marty...
Of course, how the timeline Doc came from could even exist, however briefly, is a bit confusing...the future at any point of time is the logical extrapolation of events happening in the present, and time traveller's (or anyone with knowledge of the future) literally change the future with every action of theirs in the past...so, the future, as of the instant when Emmett chose to become a scientist, would be the timeline Doc came from...but at the same instant when Emmett chose to become a scientist, Edna was rapidly nearing the 88 miles per hour mark...so shouldn't the 'logical extrapolation' be one where Edna's temporal displacement occured...and if that was the case, it should take into account the destruction of Hill Valley...or maybe the 'logical extrapolation' of a timeline cannot account for its own erasure...
I think the interesting question would be, what does Doc remember of Edna's fate in the timeline he came from...
actally no if edna was just getting to 88 mph and doc came it would still happen because edna has not done anything in the past yet. u can see this when danny is talking to marty and doc and he dissappers this is because edna must of just burned down hill valley at that moment when danny was talking and that caused the new timeline causing hill valley to start dissappering till its gone
its like what doc says the future is unwritten it means the timeline cant change unless its altered but if edna was only getten at 88 mph she was not put into the old west yet and so the timeline didnt change yet
so bottem line if edna didnt do anything to the past yet the timeline can't change
Yeah, actually that's the only way to rationalize it IMO.
Although I wonder then, what was Edna's fate in the timeline Doc came from? Did the Delorean not hit 88 miles in that timeline, and was she arrested by Danny? Did the Delorean just disappear from that timeline?
But welcome to the forums!
i think that ether she got out of hill valley shown from what doc says that he never saw her again after the expo and just was the way she was in ep 1 when she was old or danny got her and threw her in jail
She can't of gone to jail because that happened at the end of the episode and Doc didn't know what was going on.
I agree. We've seen Doc and Marty in the movies arrive in several alternate versions of 1985 . 1st time at the end of first movie Marty returns to a cooler family and biff as a servant and a truck but physically he's the same and he remembers the old time line where his family are lame failures and he doesn't remember the new timeline. Same thing happens in the 2nd movie when 2015 Biff Tannen changes history to make himself rich and powerful and both Marty and Doc come to the corrupt 1985 and the world is changed but they themselves as time travelers are not.
The only time we see time things alter the time travelers is when they do something that wipes them completely out of existence. This also happened in game when 1931 Kid Tannens history was changed and the alternate 1986 was run by the Tannen Mob. Again both Marty and Doc were not changed.
So why in episode 3 and 4 of the game when Doc's history in 1931 was changed and he didn't become an inventory, why did the old Doc disappear this time and if history was so changed that he couldn't exist anymore then why did Mart remain the same and how did the Delorean as a time machine continue to exist?
Don't get me wrong, I like the alternate Doc interaction, I just think we needed an in game explanation for why this time was an exception for Doc.
While it is an explanation...its not completely good enough.
Doc (according to the games at least), would be 72 in 1986, chronologically and naturally. However, he has lived an extra ten years in the Old West, so that would make him 82 chronologically. Now, while it is entirely possible he would have died at age 82 in the natural course of events, he may equally have also survived. I don't see why the timeline suddenly decided that 'our' Doc couldn't live at the chronological age of 82, based on a possible 'prediction' of FCB Doc's death in the next ten years of the FCB timeline (which itself would be impossible since the future isn't written).
And even if its impossible for FCB Doc to be alive at age 82, why should this affect 'our' Doc...given that he is merely a time traveller from an erased timeline. If he is erased, it will be gradual, like how 'our' Marty would be gradually erased.
Okay...still...people can live into their late 80's...
Even if 'our' Doc was 100...I don't see why he should get erased just because his counterpart in that reality didn't get any rejunevation treatment and couldn't (theoretically) live to that age...either Doc gets erased because he is an anomaly in the current timeline (in which case Marty should be erased as well), or he gets erased because there can't be two versions of him existing simultaneously (in which case, again, Marty should also be erased).
Doc traveled past 1985 where he originally departed for Rejuvenation treatment in 2015 and so because this event doesn't occur in the new timeline his validity at his age in that timeline is completely dependent on whether the order of events at the moment he arrives in 1986 dictate that FCB survives to an identical age. To which the timestream says "Nope sorry" and Doc fades like Biff after changing his timeline.
Okay, that sounds a bit more convincing.
But it still doesn't explain why 'our' Doc should be affected just because of the circumstances of FCB Doc's life...when Marty isn't affected by the circumstances of FCB Marty's life.
Marty is a teenager from 1985/1986 so he wouldn't have the age/health problems as Doc/FCB, and it's clear that George and Lorraine still hook up and have three kids, so Marty's existance is assured. With the way FCB Hill Valley is run, violent crime and fatal accidents are nearly nonexistant, so there's also less chance of Marty possibly getting killed in that sort of thing.
Doc's continued existence hinges on him going into the future. Like you said, people can live to their late 80's and beyond, but don't forget that this was 1986, it's slightly less common than today. We also don't really know the full circumstances behind FCB's death. Perhaps he would've eventually found out about Edna's control, and Edna does the brainwashing or whatever and shortens his lifespan as a result?
Maybe it's simply because FCB would be dead so Doc's fading out would only take a couple of minutes where as Marty's fading out may take a couple days (or maybe longer) because his counterpart is alive.
That...and the fact that Doc still WAS time travelling...he just had his family based in the 1980's. With time travel, it didn't matter how much time he spent in other eras...he could always return to 1985/6 at the time he left and resume his life.
It's making like a tree and getting outta there!
Well, I think that maybe Doc got a patent for his Automatic Dog Feeder, and they sold like hot cakes in Hill Valley.
Better late (reply) than never.
I didn't get what you were saying here. But now I do after having played OUTATIME directly. It wasn't told very well in the game.
The confusion of the character referred to here as "Doc A.1" just after Edna takes off makes no sense...but the fact that Doc/Clara are living in Doc's old place in 1986 does slightly make sense when put into the context of a slightly altered timelime with him reconciling with his father. The theory breaks down again when you think about the very beginning of part 1. It just creates more questions and I'm sure Telltale isn't bold enough to go this far.
Here's what we know.
One might argue that this fire, now having played OUTATIME, could have been the result of a freak accident in the basement (remember, in the 30's Emmett's experiments were there). There's always the random chance theory, but I don't buy it. The questions here are multi-fold: Why would Doc not have prevented the incident? Or why would the incident even happen if Dad now approved of the experiments - one would think he'd set Doc up with an actual shop in a safer place. And are we seriously to believe that Doc, Clara, Einstein and two kids are perfectly comfortable living in a garage with all sorts of gadgets? Remember part 1: there was basically a bunk bed and little else. This would have more continuity if the Brown mansion were still intact in 1986 and the Brown family were living there. It doesn't add up that they're living in just a garage.
That's why I got confused.
Its possible the mansion still burnt down in 1962...and in the new timeline, Doc simply had a new house built somewhere, while retaining the garage as a workshop.