I've read Bomberman 64 for a second there, because that game was dope as hell.
But I agree, ANF isn't that bad. It just could've been better, and since, in my eyes, Episode 3 was an improvement, I hope E4 and 5 will improve more on that.
So all in all, as long they don't kill Clem off, I am good, and optimistic about a whole crew for S4 instead, again, everyone being killed off.
"Javier is an interesting character with an interesting story/backstory".
One of the biggest disappointments this Season gave me. Maybe partly my fault for having expectations before release.
When I first saw Javier at E3, I though I had seen what would be, not only a good interesting character, but a good protagonist as well. He seemed serious, capable as a survivor (as expected if you're 4 years into the apocalypse), driven and interesting - mostly because of the mark on his neck, because that gave the impression there was something else this character had experienced and was involved in. I was also fairly excited for his relationship with Clementine, which was left fairly ambiguous in that clip. They were obviously working together, but was it just mutual benefit? Were they helping eachother out due to affection? Could it be that they had some sort animosity? Or maybe they were friends? Perhaps they even knew eachother for a long time? All interesting possibilities (none of which were met in the original game, sadly).
Maybe it was my fault for reading so much into a little clip, but it gave me an impression that Javier, our new protagonist, would be somewhat driven by logic rather than emotion - something never done before in a Telltale game where ususally the protagonists are all these emotion driven wrecks who make it up as they go and are always outplayed by a calculative antagonist only to win victoriously in the end - very generic. I was even more excited that maybe we could finally play as a calculative person, breaking the generic protagonist stereotype.
But I was wrong. It all started during the marketing period, where one of the things that made Javier apparently stand out, got suddenly removed - his mark. Ok, that's alright, maybe his mark isn't apart of his backstory but something that happens to him in game, still interesting nevertheless, right?
And then the game releases, and much to my horror: Javier could not be more generic, boring and uninteresting. And no, not only because of his mark not being there anymore, but because of a whole bunch of other reasons.
And to examine this horrendous character, we have to start by examining his backstory, but spoiler alert: it is none existent. From what we've got so far, Javier and his family spent 4 years into the Zombie Apocalypse with zero remarkable events. They - Javier in particular - show to not be affected what so ever, by the four years they spent living in a world gone mad (this is really more accentuated in Javier and Mari's characters, while Gabe shows to have some problems with the isolament the apocalypse brought and Kate some signs of paranoia due to the constant walker threat, Mari and Javier show to not be affected by the apocalypse, what so ever).
But that's fine right? Maybe Javi and his family don't have a insane interesting backstory, but I'm sure the plot will soon have us see them shine as characters right? And yet again, wrong. Javier is presented - regardless of our choices - as a guy trying to be funny, who likes to joke around, somehwat sarcastic and emotionally driven, even reckless in instances (by attacking - again, regardless of our choices - a member of an antagonist group with a crowbar). And bam, just like that, one of my biggest fear came true: Javier is nothing special, nothing never seen before, your usual generic emotionally driven good guy. sigh (A generic emotional good guy which isn't even done right, since the game pretends that the player is already emotionally connected to his family - which gets no more than 5 minutes of characterization - which makes Javier's emotional response to things feel... shallow, just... out of my reach to care (a good example being Mariana's death and her burial, which got me to feel nothing what so ever due to the lack of development her character had - we, the player, knew her for 5 minutes)
But, hey, maybe his involvment with the plot will make him more intesresting. Maybe as the plot develop we will see some sort of conflict within his character. And sure, we get that conflict late into episode 3 but we get it. But I have got to ask, is Javier's conflict 1) well done and presented. 2) interesting. 3) what we want out of an horror setting The Walking Dead is?
Javier seems to be faced with a decision: be loyal to his blood, his actual family (David and Gabe), or find his own family within a froup of strangers/unrelated people (Tripp, Eleanor, Conrad, Kate). And here are the flaws in this:
1) Some characters are so terribly generic and poorly presented (Tripp being the most generic it can get and Eleanor having just existed for the 3 episodes she's been in so far, for example) that it takes away any investment you could possibly develop here. You might even want to get invested, but when the only reason the game gives you to care about these characters is "they are human beings", it gets impossible to care about them. As for the majority of characters (maybe with the exception of Kate) that's all the motivation you get.
IN a more unrelated note, we have to consider one of the plot points that is Javier's romantic interest in Kate - which you cannot avoid, despite being given the option to. The characters will no matter what acknowledge some sort of romantic connection between you two, and, I'm really sorry, but things like this shoved down your throat when you are given the choice , repeatedly, to contradict it, is unforgivable. It makes me angry, and, therefore, uninvested.
2) A family struggle is not something original. It's not something interesting. It's been done, in movies, comics, books, hell, even soap operas. "the brother" developing romantic interest in "the stepmom" and creating a bond with "the son". Seriously? Is this the best the creative work at Telltale can come up with?
3) Finally, is all this fit for The Walking Dead. Is this what the fans look for in a horror post apocaliptic setting? Family themes? Adultery themes? Friendship bonds over family bonds themes?
I mean, sure, we now have the civil war plotline - except it is completely unrelated with Javier's charcter and more related to David's character only reaching Javier due to his connection with him. Richmond, the struggle going on there, means nothing to Javier.
Maybe I just set myself up for disappointment, expecting that Telltale would manage to present something new and fresh to this series.
Sorry for the essay. Here are a couple of other cool lies Telltale has told us:
"You will not be paying the price of 5 episodes and only getting the content of 4! "
"Players who played previous seasons will feel rewarded! "
"Javier is an interesting character with an interesting story/backstory".
One of the biggest disappointments this Season gave me. Maybe p… moreartly my fault for having expectations before release.
When I first saw Javier at E3, I though I had seen what would be, not only a good interesting character, but a good protagonist as well. He seemed serious, capable as a survivor (as expected if you're 4 years into the apocalypse), driven and interesting - mostly because of the mark on his neck, because that gave the impression there was something else this character had experienced and was involved in. I was also fairly excited for his relationship with Clementine, which was left fairly ambiguous in that clip. They were obviously working together, but was it just mutual benefit? Were they helping eachother out due to affection? Could it be that they had some sort animosity? Or maybe they were friends? Perhaps they even knew eachother for a long tim… [view original content]
Do you feel that playing as David would've been more interesting than playing as Javiar? Especially if you consider that Clementine was also part of the New Frontier so you'd also see her a lot more.
"Javier is an interesting character with an interesting story/backstory".
One of the biggest disappointments this Season gave me. Maybe p… moreartly my fault for having expectations before release.
When I first saw Javier at E3, I though I had seen what would be, not only a good interesting character, but a good protagonist as well. He seemed serious, capable as a survivor (as expected if you're 4 years into the apocalypse), driven and interesting - mostly because of the mark on his neck, because that gave the impression there was something else this character had experienced and was involved in. I was also fairly excited for his relationship with Clementine, which was left fairly ambiguous in that clip. They were obviously working together, but was it just mutual benefit? Were they helping eachother out due to affection? Could it be that they had some sort animosity? Or maybe they were friends? Perhaps they even knew eachother for a long tim… [view original content]
David certainly seems to have more depth and interest in him along with what could be a interesting backstory. I'd also like to learn the history of David and Ava. I think playing as David would've been far more interesting and fun to play oppose to Javier who is quite bland with a generic past and lacking any depth or uniqueness.
Do you feel that playing as David would've been more interesting than playing as Javiar? Especially if you consider that Clementine was also part of the New Frontier so you'd also see her a lot more.
Very true. And not only that, but even though David's heart can be in the right place, he has quite the temper and can also be unpredictable. He cares for his family, but instead of leaving Richmond with them, he tries to confront Joan to put a stop to her tyranny so no other family has to lose their kids like he lost Mariana.
David certainly seems to have more depth and interest in him along with what could be a interesting backstory. I'd also like to learn the hi… morestory of David and Ava. I think playing as David would've been far more interesting and fun to play oppose to Javier who is quite bland with a generic past and lacking any depth or uniqueness.
Well, technically, you could argue Sarah made her realize how much the apocalypse has changed her that she just determinately goes along with whatever activity she proposes they do for fun but doesn't seem to be able to derive much joy from it herself, but yeah.
Holy shit, that actually sounds awesome! We'd be able to make decisions within the NF that could actually impact who lives and dies within Richmond, and have a chance to play as a character who's able to either become a ruthless dictator, a charismatic leader, an ineffective leader or maybe something in between.
Do you feel that playing as David would've been more interesting than playing as Javiar? Especially if you consider that Clementine was also part of the New Frontier so you'd also see her a lot more.
Possibly. Javier being the supporting protagonist does make sense, but unfortunately, almost everything in the story had David's fingerprints on it first--Clementine included.
Do you feel that playing as David would've been more interesting than playing as Javiar? Especially if you consider that Clementine was also part of the New Frontier so you'd also see her a lot more.
Well, technically, you could argue Sarah made her realize how much the apocalypse has changed her that she just determinately goes along wit… moreh whatever activity she proposes they do for fun but doesn't seem to be able to derive much joy from it herself, but yeah.
To be fair there are many variations of things Clem can say after you tell the story of what happened to AJ. Its only a small thing and there arent 42 only like 4 but still
42 Different start-points because somehow management thought they could pull of this kind of number. It'd already be stretching the truth if it were more than 6 starting-points.
Possibly. Javier being the supporting protagonist does make sense, but unfortunately, almost everything in the story had David's fingerprints on it first--Clementine included.
This is a very weak excuse for boosting their numbers. Take an example for letting the family in or not from the Jane ending which literally has one line of dialogue change. The variations are so little that you can barely notice.
To be fair there are many variations of things Clem can say after you tell the story of what happened to AJ. Its only a small thing and there arent 42 only like 4 but still
"How far will you go to protect your family?" "The story is tailored by your choices".
In episode 1 I decided to leave the junkyard to avoid the herd. I shot Rufus so the New Frontier would not know that Javi escaped. I sided with Clementine because Javi needed her. I went with Eleanor so Javi could get to them earlier. And what happened? Mariana died and Kate got shot.
If you worry about keeping the kids happy instead of keeping them safe, if you let Rufus alive and give him a chance to return to his group to tell them that you escaped, if you were against Clementine pissing off the only one person that know where the junkyard is, and if you go out with Tripp knowing that you will get a little bit later, the result will be the same.
It would be better if Mariana's death and Kate getting shot was determinant.
In episode 2 the only choice that involves your family is the flashback one, wich was pointless because 4 years have passed.
In episode 3 the choices that involve family were using the medicine on Aj and side with David and Kate. But the outcome in episode 4 will be the same no matter what you do.
Honestly everyone has already mentioned all the lies that came to my mind so I won't repeat them.
I will say this though - I think this thread is cementing my decision now to never buy any Telltale games as soon as they're released and instead wait to see how well they actually do and if these promises made by Telltale actually hold up.
I don't hate ANF honestly and I wouldn't say I regret buying it per say, but I have lost a lot of trust in Telltale with all the shady shit going on with them. So I think i'm gonna wait and see how they're future games like GOTG turn out first from now on before purchase.
"We're going to build a slaughterhouse. It'll be a magnificent slaughterhouse full of walkers. It'll be so full of walkers you'll get tired of killing them. That I can tell you."
Honestly everyone has already mentioned all the lies that came to my mind so I won't repeat them.
I will say this though - I think this t… morehread is cementing my decision now to never buy any Telltale games as soon as they're released and instead wait to see how well they actually do and if these promises made by Telltale actually hold up.
I don't hate ANF honestly and I wouldn't say I regret buying it per say, but I have lost a lot of trust in Telltale with all the shady shit going on with them. So I think i'm gonna wait and see how they're future games like GOTG turn out first from now on before purchase.
To be fair, the older and wiser I get, episodic content looks less and less appealing to me.
As I've said before a while back, a HUGE part of the magic I shared with games like The Wolf Among Us and The Walking Dead Season 1 was that I had purchased and played them well after they were released and found that the experience was much more complete when I wasn't confined to just playing an episode at a time and instead could explore the realms of the narrative progress further and with much less breaks between game times.
Not to say it would alleviate much in A New Frontier's case. However, I think game's mimicking television programs is a rather crippling trend that has become far too common-place in "story driven" games and only hampers the progress of the plot. Constantly needing to wrap up each "episode" just to slowly feed back info and recap within each episode seems far less forgivable and much more clunky once the time gap has been roughly a month between hopping back into the narrative.
Honestly everyone has already mentioned all the lies that came to my mind so I won't repeat them.
I will say this though - I think this t… morehread is cementing my decision now to never buy any Telltale games as soon as they're released and instead wait to see how well they actually do and if these promises made by Telltale actually hold up.
I don't hate ANF honestly and I wouldn't say I regret buying it per say, but I have lost a lot of trust in Telltale with all the shady shit going on with them. So I think i'm gonna wait and see how they're future games like GOTG turn out first from now on before purchase.
They maybe wont prove you wrong by the look to javi's face in this pic he had no beard and I can't imagin him took it off with how the story… more is going right now so this screen shots are useless and they will never be in the game just like the first E3 2016 trailer.
Do you feel that playing as David would've been more interesting than playing as Javiar? Especially if you consider that Clementine was also part of the New Frontier so you'd also see her a lot more.
Haha as shit as that game looked that you showed me, it still physically had more gameplay than season 3 lol. ANF isn't even a game really. Game is the wrong word to describe it
The story is tailored by how you play. Every Telltale game since the first season of Walking Dead has told this lie. (Well, except for maybe episode 6 of Game of Thrones and Episode 3 of ANF.)
Comments
I've read Bomberman 64 for a second there, because that game was dope as hell.
But I agree, ANF isn't that bad. It just could've been better, and since, in my eyes, Episode 3 was an improvement, I hope E4 and 5 will improve more on that.
So all in all, as long they don't kill Clem off, I am good, and optimistic about a whole crew for S4 instead, again, everyone being killed off.
"Shawn Greene will remember that."
Gets eaten by walkers a minute later
"Sarita will remember that"
After she just got bitten.
"Javier is an interesting character with an interesting story/backstory".
One of the biggest disappointments this Season gave me. Maybe partly my fault for having expectations before release.
When I first saw Javier at E3, I though I had seen what would be, not only a good interesting character, but a good protagonist as well. He seemed serious, capable as a survivor (as expected if you're 4 years into the apocalypse), driven and interesting - mostly because of the mark on his neck, because that gave the impression there was something else this character had experienced and was involved in. I was also fairly excited for his relationship with Clementine, which was left fairly ambiguous in that clip. They were obviously working together, but was it just mutual benefit? Were they helping eachother out due to affection? Could it be that they had some sort animosity? Or maybe they were friends? Perhaps they even knew eachother for a long time? All interesting possibilities (none of which were met in the original game, sadly).
Maybe it was my fault for reading so much into a little clip, but it gave me an impression that Javier, our new protagonist, would be somewhat driven by logic rather than emotion - something never done before in a Telltale game where ususally the protagonists are all these emotion driven wrecks who make it up as they go and are always outplayed by a calculative antagonist only to win victoriously in the end - very generic. I was even more excited that maybe we could finally play as a calculative person, breaking the generic protagonist stereotype.
But I was wrong. It all started during the marketing period, where one of the things that made Javier apparently stand out, got suddenly removed - his mark. Ok, that's alright, maybe his mark isn't apart of his backstory but something that happens to him in game, still interesting nevertheless, right?
And then the game releases, and much to my horror: Javier could not be more generic, boring and uninteresting. And no, not only because of his mark not being there anymore, but because of a whole bunch of other reasons.
And to examine this horrendous character, we have to start by examining his backstory, but spoiler alert: it is none existent. From what we've got so far, Javier and his family spent 4 years into the Zombie Apocalypse with zero remarkable events. They - Javier in particular - show to not be affected what so ever, by the four years they spent living in a world gone mad (this is really more accentuated in Javier and Mari's characters, while Gabe shows to have some problems with the isolament the apocalypse brought and Kate some signs of paranoia due to the constant walker threat, Mari and Javier show to not be affected by the apocalypse, what so ever).
But that's fine right? Maybe Javi and his family don't have a insane interesting backstory, but I'm sure the plot will soon have us see them shine as characters right? And yet again, wrong. Javier is presented - regardless of our choices - as a guy trying to be funny, who likes to joke around, somehwat sarcastic and emotionally driven, even reckless in instances (by attacking - again, regardless of our choices - a member of an antagonist group with a crowbar). And bam, just like that, one of my biggest fear came true: Javier is nothing special, nothing never seen before, your usual generic emotionally driven good guy. sigh (A generic emotional good guy which isn't even done right, since the game pretends that the player is already emotionally connected to his family - which gets no more than 5 minutes of characterization - which makes Javier's emotional response to things feel... shallow, just... out of my reach to care (a good example being Mariana's death and her burial, which got me to feel nothing what so ever due to the lack of development her character had - we, the player, knew her for 5 minutes)
But, hey, maybe his involvment with the plot will make him more intesresting. Maybe as the plot develop we will see some sort of conflict within his character. And sure, we get that conflict late into episode 3 but we get it. But I have got to ask, is Javier's conflict 1) well done and presented. 2) interesting. 3) what we want out of an horror setting The Walking Dead is?
Javier seems to be faced with a decision: be loyal to his blood, his actual family (David and Gabe), or find his own family within a froup of strangers/unrelated people (Tripp, Eleanor, Conrad, Kate). And here are the flaws in this:
1) Some characters are so terribly generic and poorly presented (Tripp being the most generic it can get and Eleanor having just existed for the 3 episodes she's been in so far, for example) that it takes away any investment you could possibly develop here. You might even want to get invested, but when the only reason the game gives you to care about these characters is "they are human beings", it gets impossible to care about them. As for the majority of characters (maybe with the exception of Kate) that's all the motivation you get.
IN a more unrelated note, we have to consider one of the plot points that is Javier's romantic interest in Kate - which you cannot avoid, despite being given the option to. The characters will no matter what acknowledge some sort of romantic connection between you two, and, I'm really sorry, but things like this shoved down your throat when you are given the choice , repeatedly, to contradict it, is unforgivable. It makes me angry, and, therefore, uninvested.
2) A family struggle is not something original. It's not something interesting. It's been done, in movies, comics, books, hell, even soap operas. "the brother" developing romantic interest in "the stepmom" and creating a bond with "the son". Seriously? Is this the best the creative work at Telltale can come up with?
3) Finally, is all this fit for The Walking Dead. Is this what the fans look for in a horror post apocaliptic setting? Family themes? Adultery themes? Friendship bonds over family bonds themes?
I mean, sure, we now have the civil war plotline - except it is completely unrelated with Javier's charcter and more related to David's character only reaching Javier due to his connection with him. Richmond, the struggle going on there, means nothing to Javier.
Maybe I just set myself up for disappointment, expecting that Telltale would manage to present something new and fresh to this series.
Sorry for the essay. Here are a couple of other cool lies Telltale has told us:
"You will not be paying the price of 5 episodes and only getting the content of 4!
"
"Players who played previous seasons will feel rewarded!
"
I was not in the community on 2014. What is "the butterfly effect in S2E3"?
The biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard.
I agree with at least 65% of this.
God, that was a GREAT GREAT lie. In Harm's Way is my second less favourite episode. I hate Telltale and IHW more than before.
It even mentions "deaths" not only choices.
Do you feel that playing as David would've been more interesting than playing as Javiar? Especially if you consider that Clementine was also part of the New Frontier so you'd also see her a lot more.
"Clementine will get a chance to revisit her lost childhood with Sarah."
AHAHAHAHA fuck off.
David certainly seems to have more depth and interest in him along with what could be a interesting backstory. I'd also like to learn the history of David and Ava. I think playing as David would've been far more interesting and fun to play oppose to Javier who is quite bland with a generic past and lacking any depth or uniqueness.
Very true. And not only that, but even though David's heart can be in the right place, he has quite the temper and can also be unpredictable. He cares for his family, but instead of leaving Richmond with them, he tries to confront Joan to put a stop to her tyranny so no other family has to lose their kids like he lost Mariana.
Well, technically, you could argue Sarah made her realize how much the apocalypse has changed her that she just determinately goes along with whatever activity she proposes they do for fun but doesn't seem to be able to derive much joy from it herself, but yeah.
Holy shit, that actually sounds awesome! We'd be able to make decisions within the NF that could actually impact who lives and dies within Richmond, and have a chance to play as a character who's able to either become a ruthless dictator, a charismatic leader, an ineffective leader or maybe something in between.
That'd be pretty cool
Possibly. Javier being the supporting protagonist does make sense, but unfortunately, almost everything in the story had David's fingerprints on it first--Clementine included.
Tell him off
That definitely wasn't implicated in how they worded it.
True. And they don't really develop their relationship itself all that much anyway.
To be fair there are many variations of things Clem can say after you tell the story of what happened to AJ. Its only a small thing and there arent 42 only like 4 but still
That sounds very wrong.
Justin: You know what, Vince? It's time to grow up, I'm gonna leave your ass so I can find a safe place on my own.
And I still wish they made Season 3 with Clem and Sarah. ANF is no Season 3 to me.
This is a very weak excuse for boosting their numbers. Take an example for letting the family in or not from the Jane ending which literally has one line of dialogue change. The variations are so little that you can barely notice.
Yeah, same here.
I'm well aware of it, don't worry
"How far will you go to protect your family?" "The story is tailored by your choices".
In episode 1 I decided to leave the junkyard to avoid the herd. I shot Rufus so the New Frontier would not know that Javi escaped. I sided with Clementine because Javi needed her. I went with Eleanor so Javi could get to them earlier. And what happened? Mariana died and Kate got shot.
If you worry about keeping the kids happy instead of keeping them safe, if you let Rufus alive and give him a chance to return to his group to tell them that you escaped, if you were against Clementine pissing off the only one person that know where the junkyard is, and if you go out with Tripp knowing that you will get a little bit later, the result will be the same.
It would be better if Mariana's death and Kate getting shot was determinant.
In episode 2 the only choice that involves your family is the flashback one, wich was pointless because 4 years have passed.
In episode 3 the choices that involve family were using the medicine on Aj and side with David and Kate. But the outcome in episode 4 will be the same no matter what you do.
Honestly everyone has already mentioned all the lies that came to my mind so I won't repeat them.
I will say this though - I think this thread is cementing my decision now to never buy any Telltale games as soon as they're released and instead wait to see how well they actually do and if these promises made by Telltale actually hold up.
I don't hate ANF honestly and I wouldn't say I regret buying it per say, but I have lost a lot of trust in Telltale with all the shady shit going on with them. So I think i'm gonna wait and see how they're future games like GOTG turn out first from now on before purchase.
To be fair they DO hear the feedback.
They just don't give a shit.
"We're going to build a slaughterhouse. It'll be a magnificent slaughterhouse full of walkers. It'll be so full of walkers you'll get tired of killing them. That I can tell you."
-Telltale
Same
Bet they had more gameplay than this utter trash by Telltale though lol
Sure
Lol I just noticed you and I tend to agree on a lot of things.
To be fair, the older and wiser I get, episodic content looks less and less appealing to me.
As I've said before a while back, a HUGE part of the magic I shared with games like The Wolf Among Us and The Walking Dead Season 1 was that I had purchased and played them well after they were released and found that the experience was much more complete when I wasn't confined to just playing an episode at a time and instead could explore the realms of the narrative progress further and with much less breaks between game times.
Not to say it would alleviate much in A New Frontier's case. However, I think game's mimicking television programs is a rather crippling trend that has become far too common-place in "story driven" games and only hampers the progress of the plot. Constantly needing to wrap up each "episode" just to slowly feed back info and recap within each episode seems far less forgivable and much more clunky once the time gap has been roughly a month between hopping back into the narrative.
For some reason he still look more serious and intimidating as beardless Javi in the promotional pictures instead of his current look
Pettition to remake ANF from David's point of view.
Haha as shit as that game looked that you showed me, it still physically had more gameplay than season 3 lol. ANF isn't even a game really. Game is the wrong word to describe it
Tales was probably the only game that actually got choices mattering done the right way