I suppose one reason why the newer Guybrush designs have taken after the Curse version so much is due to the fact that it's very stylized. The first 2 games took on a more realistic style (for close-ups and box art, I mean), so Curse gave the games that followed a strong visual style to work with.
It's quite a catchy style really, so it's no surprise it caught on for the rest of the series. Every time I do Monkey Island fanart, no matter what game or what characters the fanart is based on I'm always finding myself getting a little bit of the Curse style thrown in there.
Funny enough, the MI2:SE Guybrush has similarities to Guybrush in his Curse style and his SOMI:SE style. Maybe they did that on purpose to show him growing into his appearance in Curse! Although that might be a little strange considering how much younger he looks in Curse than in MI2. (at least I always thought so)
I suppose one reason why the newer Guybrush designs have taken after the Curse version so much is due to the fact that it's very stylized. The first 2 games took on a more realistic style (for close-ups and box art, I mean), so Curse gave the games that followed a strong visual style to work with.\
I always thought the stylization of Revenge was far more interesting. It was like stepping into the painted backdrops of old pirate movies, or having the chance to walk off the boat at Pirates of the Caribbean and walk around beyond the borders of what they showed us. I don't think that being more "realistic" denies a sense of style; live action movies have huge differences in what they look like between them.
Claiming it never existed:
You are then making a factual claim. You're saying that the physical discs, the screenshots, the sales numbers, the work hours and the program code never existed, and that everyone who says they've played it are wrong or lying. It's borderline psychopathic.
Ignoring the game and/or pretending it never existed:
You disregard the game in any way and form because you dislike it, either for quality or narrative reasons - or both. This is a personal decision, and has nothing to do with the real world and the physical existence of EMI, just the way you relate to the games.
Ignoring the game and/or pretending it never existed:
You disregard the game in any way and form because you dislike it, either for quality or narrative reasons - or both. This is a personal decision, and has nothing to do with the real world and the physical existence of EMI, just the way you relate to the games.
In other words you're disregarding the game as a Monkey Island game but not the existence of the game? Which, if so, I still think is kind of silly bullshit. I mean you can dislike the game perfectly well without putting a big sheet over it and pretending its not there.
Wow, I stepped on your toes, it seems. It makes all the difference. If someone claimed EMI was never created, that would be factually wrong, and a very dumb statement. On the other hand, ignoring it's exsitence or pretending it was never made, is not right or wrong, but a manner of opinion.
Ignoring reality is not a matter of opinion. You're misunderstanding what the word "opinion" means.
o·pin·ion
/əˈpɪnyən/ [uh-pin-yuhn]
–noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.
Just for the sake of clarity and completeness, let's go through these one-by-one:
1. "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
Well, there is no amount of uncertainty to it. EFMI does in fact, factually, verifiably exist. So, there's 1/0.
2. "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal."
"I personally don't believe EFMI exists," "I am of the attitude that the events in EFMI are not, in my opinion, canonical," "Based on my review of the game, I do not like it." These statement are presenting the issue as a matter of opinion. So if your argument is in accordance with one of these, then it can be considered a matter of opinion. However, "I pretend EFMI does not exist," is not to be confused with the opinion of "I do not believe EFMI exists." The latter is an opinion because it suggests ignorance (as in, a lack of knowledge of the existence of EFMI). The former though deals with ignoring reality, which is not a matter of opinion. This one goes both ways, so 1.5/0.5
3. "the formal expression of a professional judgment."
These forums are neither considered formal or professional by any means (unless of course you happen to be a member of the TTG staff in which this might be slightly different for you personally). So unless you are TTG staff, then it's 2.5/0.5. Edit: I've been told that I may have been speaking bullocks here by limiting this to TTG staff. So let me revise this to say "unless you're a professional determiner of whether or not EFMI exists, and giving a formal declaration."
4. "the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case."
Although for some TTG staffers these forums may be considered as a formal place, there certainly aren't any judges running around here while court is in-session. So, that brings us to 3.5/0.5.
5. "a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc."
I'll admit, I'm not entirely clear what this definition is trying to indicate or where it's going..Based on the example I'll just give you this one. You look like you could use it. 3.5/1.5.
6. "a favorable estimate; esteem"
You could say, "I have a low opinion of EFMI's existence," in which case you would be presenting an opinion. So that brings us to 3.5/2.5
Now regarding these points, you should keep in mind that I was trying to be open-minded to whether you could use the word "opinion" in a favorable sense with your argument, not whether you did. The way you have used "opinion" does not have anything to do with any definition of the word.
I can "pretend" all day that German Shepherds don't exist, and it will still never become a matter of opinion, at any point. Just because you pretend that reality isn't, doesn't remove the factuality that reality is really reality. Opinion only comes into effect where there is not a definite factual ground.
In other words you're disregarding the game as a Monkey Island game but not the existence of the game?
No, I'm not, but there probably are a few people who are.
Which, if so, I still think is kind of silly. I mean you can dislike the game perfectly well without putting a big sheet over it and pretending its not there.
Disregarding the narrative of EMI is perfectly possible, since none of the other games are reliant on the story and plot elements in that game, and is probably preferable to the notion that the entire story of Monkey Island has been tainted by one game.
I always thought the stylization of Revenge was far more interesting. It was like stepping into the painted backdrops of old pirate movies, or having the chance to walk off the boat at Pirates of the Caribbean and walk around beyond the borders of what they showed us. I don't think that being more "realistic" denies a sense of style; live action movies have huge differences in what they look like between them.
That's fair enough. I meant stylized as in quirky and unique (though admittedly, there are some connections between the Curse style and visual styles in some of the other more cartoony LucasArts adventures) rather than interesting as such. Though I do find both styles interesting in their own ways!
Disregarding the narrative of EMI is perfectly possible, since none of the other games are reliant on the story and plot elements in that game, and is probably preferable to the notion that the entire story of Monkey Island has been tainted by one game.
Ignoring reality is not a matter of opinion. You're misunderstanding what the word "opinion" means.
Just for the sake of clarity and completeness, let's go through these one-by-one:
1. "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
Well, there is no amount of uncertainty to it. EFMI does in fact, factually, verifiably exist. So, there's 1/0.
2. "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal."
"I personally don't believe EFMI exists," "I am of the attitude that the events in EFMI are not, in my opinion, canonical," "Based on my review of the game, I do not like it." These statement are presenting the issue as a matter of opinion. So if your argument is in accordance with one of these, then it can be considered a matter of opinion. However, "I pretend EFMI does not exist," is not to be confused with the opinion of "I do not believe EFMI exists." The latter is an opinion because it suggests ignorance (as in, a lack of knowledge of the existence of EFMI). The former though deals with ignoring reality, which is not a matter of opinion. This one goes both ways, so 1.5/0.5
3. "the formal expression of a professional judgment."
These forums are neither considered formal or professional by any means (unless of course you happen to be a member of the TTG staff in which this might be slightly different for you personally). So unless you are TTG staff, then it's 2.5/0.5.
4. "the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case."
Although for some TTG staffers these forums may be considered as a formal place, there certainly aren't any judges running around here while court is in-session. So, that brings us to 3.5/0.5.
5. "a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc."
I'll admit, I'm not entirely clear what this definition is trying to indicate or where it's going..Based on the example I'll just give you this one. You look like you could use it. 3.5/1.5.
6. "a favorable estimate; esteem"
You could say, "I have a low opinion of EFMI's existence," in which case you would be presenting an opinion. So that brings us to 3.5/2.5
Now regarding these points, you should keep in mind that I was trying to be open-minded to whether you could use the word "opinion" in a favorable sense with your argument, not whether you did. The way you have used "opinion" does not have anything to do with any definition of the word.
I can "pretend" all day that German Shepherds don't exist, and it will still never become a matter of opinion, at any point. Just because you pretend that reality isn't, doesn't remove the factuality that reality is really reality. Opinion only comes into effect where there is not a definite factual ground.
Just to be clear though, I'm not contesting anyone's opinions. People are entitled to their opinions. What I'm contesting is intentional ignorance of fact.
Just to be clear though, I'm not contesting anyone's opinions. People are entitled to their opinions. What I'm contesting is intentional ignorance of fact.
Ignoring reality is not a matter of opinion. You're misunderstanding what the word "opinion" means.
Just for the sake of clarity and completeness, let's go through these one-by-one:
1. "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
Well, there is no amount of uncertainty to it. EFMI does in fact, factually, verifiably exist. So, there's 1/0.
2. "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal."
"I personally don't believe EFMI exists," "I am of the attitude that the events in EFMI are not, in my opinion, canonical," "Based on my review of the game, I do not like it." These statement are presenting the issue as a matter of opinion. So if your argument is in accordance with one of these, then it can be considered a matter of opinion. However, "I pretend EFMI does not exist," is not to be confused with the opinion of "I do not believe EFMI exists." The latter is an opinion because it suggests ignorance (as in, a lack of knowledge of the existence of EFMI). The former though deals with ignoring reality, which is not a matter of opinion. This one goes both ways, so 1.5/0.5
3. "the formal expression of a professional judgment."
These forums are neither considered formal or professional by any means (unless of course you happen to be a member of the TTG staff in which this might be slightly different for you personally). So unless you are TTG staff, then it's 2.5/0.5. Edit: I've been told that I may have been speaking bullocks here by limiting this to TTG staff. So let me revise this to say "unless you're a professional determiner of whether or not EFMI exists, and giving a formal declaration."
4. "the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case."
Although for some TTG staffers these forums may be considered as a formal place, there certainly aren't any judges running around here while court is in-session. So, that brings us to 3.5/0.5.
5. "a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc."
I'll admit, I'm not entirely clear what this definition is trying to indicate or where it's going..Based on the example I'll just give you this one. You look like you could use it. 3.5/1.5.
6. "a favorable estimate; esteem"
You could say, "I have a low opinion of EFMI's existence," in which case you would be presenting an opinion. So that brings us to 3.5/2.5
Now regarding these points, you should keep in mind that I was trying to be open-minded to whether you could use the word "opinion" in a favorable sense with your argument, not whether you did. The way you have used "opinion" does not have anything to do with any definition of the word.
I can "pretend" all day that German Shepherds don't exist, and it will still never become a matter of opinion, at any point. Just because you pretend that reality isn't, doesn't remove the factuality that reality is really reality. Opinion only comes into effect where there is not a definite factual ground.
Yes. You can ignore the fictional story all you want. You can ignore the characters, places, events, and so forth. But start denying that the fiction ever existed (as a fictional work) and you're tampering with reality and you're just drowning in denial.
Yes. You can ignore the fictional story all you want. You can ignore the characters, places, events, and so forth. But start denying that the fiction ever existed (as a fictional work) and you're tampering with reality and you're just drowning in denial.
Yes. You can ignore the fictional story all you want. You can ignore the characters, places, events, and so forth. But start denying that the fiction ever existed (as a fictional work) and you're tampering with reality and you're just drowning in denial.
You're creating a strawman. Nobody has ever claimed that EMI actually never existed.
... Is arguing about Dis Continuity and its merits (or lack thereof) really worth derailing this thread, guys? It's just creating too much bad juju to merit its pursuit, at least from where I'm standing. :-/
I didn't say anyone is going around saying things like "it factually never existed," but even ignoring reality is still that, and it's still not a matter of opinion. Which was my whole point.
Regarding the discontinuity issue, I'd say it is because the original poster has not made any attempt to change the post to include Guybrush from EFMI. I'm not expecting him to start accepting it's existence as I know most of you around here like to pretend it's not real. But if you're going to show the various stages of Guybrush, excluding only one simply because you personally don't like it is a bit silly, in my opinion.
LCR is my least favorite MI. Probably in part due to the fact that it was the last of the games I ever played (though not by choice). So the example would be exactly the same if I left LCR Guybrush out of the list and just posted the other 4 Guybrush models. I guarantee you I'd catch hell for pretending LCR didn't exist as it's the most widely favored MI in the series.
I accept that other people don't accept EFMI. I just don't accept ignoring reality (i.e., "pretending it doesn't exist"). That's just my stand on the matter.
Regarding the discontinuity issue, I'd say it is because the original poster has not made any attempt to change the post to include Guybrush from EFMI. I'm not expecting him to start accepting it's existence as I know most of you around here like to pretend it's not real. But if you're going to show the various stages of Guybrush, excluding only one simply because you personally don't like it is a bit silly, in my opinion.
I couldn't agree more. The problem is how over-the-top the reaction has been. It's set a tone that a) is not getting us anywhere, and b) is incredibly off-putting. The tangent isn't the problem so much as what's come of it.
Joop posted a version of the OP with EMI Guybrush. Ignore the ignorers, if necesssary. Move on. It's better for everyone's blood pressure.
If you want it changed that badly then save my edited image and make one yourself.
I only made it so you could compare the originals with the remakes. I added Curse to the mix because i wondered if anyone shared my thoughts that the remakes looked like bridge to the curse guybrush look. I also added tales because to me it looks very curse of monkey island guybrush inspired.
Escape can go get shot behind a shed for all i care.
I accept that it exists but i choose to ignore it. The same way that if a baby is crying loudly at the cinema i choose to ignore it and try to enjoy the film. Nothing is pure and everything has its bad to it, but sometimes you have to ignore the bad and focus on the good.
Wasn't there some kind of topic around here? Something about Threepwood designs?
Don't Be daft!
anyway, OT: I don't think they were aiming for a closer link to CMI guybrush. If they were, i'm sure they would have changed the body proportions more.
Comments
It's quite a catchy style really, so it's no surprise it caught on for the rest of the series. Every time I do Monkey Island fanart, no matter what game or what characters the fanart is based on I'm always finding myself getting a little bit of the Curse style thrown in there.
Funny enough, the MI2:SE Guybrush has similarities to Guybrush in his Curse style and his SOMI:SE style. Maybe they did that on purpose to show him growing into his appearance in Curse! Although that might be a little strange considering how much younger he looks in Curse than in MI2. (at least I always thought so)
Claiming it never existed:
You are then making a factual claim. You're saying that the physical discs, the screenshots, the sales numbers, the work hours and the program code never existed, and that everyone who says they've played it are wrong or lying. It's borderline psychopathic.
Ignoring the game and/or pretending it never existed:
You disregard the game in any way and form because you dislike it, either for quality or narrative reasons - or both. This is a personal decision, and has nothing to do with the real world and the physical existence of EMI, just the way you relate to the games.
In other words you're disregarding the game as a Monkey Island game but not the existence of the game? Which, if so, I still think is kind of silly bullshit. I mean you can dislike the game perfectly well without putting a big sheet over it and pretending its not there.
Ignoring reality is not a matter of opinion. You're misunderstanding what the word "opinion" means.
Just for the sake of clarity and completeness, let's go through these one-by-one:
1. "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty."
Well, there is no amount of uncertainty to it. EFMI does in fact, factually, verifiably exist. So, there's 1/0.
2. "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal."
"I personally don't believe EFMI exists," "I am of the attitude that the events in EFMI are not, in my opinion, canonical," "Based on my review of the game, I do not like it." These statement are presenting the issue as a matter of opinion. So if your argument is in accordance with one of these, then it can be considered a matter of opinion. However, "I pretend EFMI does not exist," is not to be confused with the opinion of "I do not believe EFMI exists." The latter is an opinion because it suggests ignorance (as in, a lack of knowledge of the existence of EFMI). The former though deals with ignoring reality, which is not a matter of opinion. This one goes both ways, so 1.5/0.5
3. "the formal expression of a professional judgment."
These forums are neither considered formal or professional by any means (unless of course you happen to be a member of the TTG staff in which this might be slightly different for you personally). So unless you are TTG staff, then it's 2.5/0.5. Edit: I've been told that I may have been speaking bullocks here by limiting this to TTG staff. So let me revise this to say "unless you're a professional determiner of whether or not EFMI exists, and giving a formal declaration."
4. "the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case."
Although for some TTG staffers these forums may be considered as a formal place, there certainly aren't any judges running around here while court is in-session. So, that brings us to 3.5/0.5.
5. "a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc."
I'll admit, I'm not entirely clear what this definition is trying to indicate or where it's going..Based on the example I'll just give you this one. You look like you could use it. 3.5/1.5.
6. "a favorable estimate; esteem"
You could say, "I have a low opinion of EFMI's existence," in which case you would be presenting an opinion. So that brings us to 3.5/2.5
Now regarding these points, you should keep in mind that I was trying to be open-minded to whether you could use the word "opinion" in a favorable sense with your argument, not whether you did. The way you have used "opinion" does not have anything to do with any definition of the word.
I can "pretend" all day that German Shepherds don't exist, and it will still never become a matter of opinion, at any point. Just because you pretend that reality isn't, doesn't remove the factuality that reality is really reality. Opinion only comes into effect where there is not a definite factual ground.
Yeah, it's possible.
:rolleyes:
The fact of fiction!
what
what
You're creating a strawman. Nobody has ever claimed that EMI actually never existed.
Wow.
... Is arguing about Dis Continuity and its merits (or lack thereof) really worth derailing this thread, guys? It's just creating too much bad juju to merit its pursuit, at least from where I'm standing. :-/
it is the greatest adventure game in history
OKAY!
If you're playing Escape From Monkey Island press Escape to escape from Escape From Monkey Island.
what
Okay, now I'm slightly less annoyed. Slightly.
LCR is my least favorite MI. Probably in part due to the fact that it was the last of the games I ever played (though not by choice). So the example would be exactly the same if I left LCR Guybrush out of the list and just posted the other 4 Guybrush models. I guarantee you I'd catch hell for pretending LCR didn't exist as it's the most widely favored MI in the series.
I accept that other people don't accept EFMI. I just don't accept ignoring reality (i.e., "pretending it doesn't exist"). That's just my stand on the matter.
OKAY!
It was very low key. It was released exclusively on PC and PS2. Not like the good MI games that were released on XBLA. :cool:
its being sold in the big whoop theme park sovner stands
I couldn't agree more. The problem is how over-the-top the reaction has been. It's set a tone that a) is not getting us anywhere, and b) is incredibly off-putting. The tangent isn't the problem so much as what's come of it.
Joop posted a version of the OP with EMI Guybrush. Ignore the ignorers, if necesssary. Move on. It's better for everyone's blood pressure.
Dammit, you guys! Stop making me smile. This thread is supposed to make me grumpy! Grumpy!
If you want it changed that badly then save my edited image and make one yourself.
I only made it so you could compare the originals with the remakes. I added Curse to the mix because i wondered if anyone shared my thoughts that the remakes looked like bridge to the curse guybrush look. I also added tales because to me it looks very curse of monkey island guybrush inspired.
Escape can go get shot behind a shed for all i care.
I accept that it exists but i choose to ignore it. The same way that if a baby is crying loudly at the cinema i choose to ignore it and try to enjoy the film. Nothing is pure and everything has its bad to it, but sometimes you have to ignore the bad and focus on the good.
Is that so wrong? Was it worth an arguement over?
No.
Yes.
Well as long as you all enjoyed it... i guess.
what
okay!
OKAY!
Paul-Luke you beat me coz a thirty-second time limit between posts and I wandered off to greener valleys..
That was such a terrible game.
Seriously. Who's bright idea was it to have Guybrush return to that mast of all places? The Secret isn't in a mast.
Look at mast:
Thats the main mast of my ship the Sea Monkey.
anyway, OT: I don't think they were aiming for a closer link to CMI guybrush. If they were, i'm sure they would have changed the body proportions more.