I don't agree on your concept of time traveling.
Time travel =/= the same as just being at different places.
You can actually change history with effects on the future.
But here is something that's a true plothole though. But something that is understandibly omitted from the movies.
The butterfly effect. Marty appearing in different times with as little interaction as possible still has big consequences over a 30 year timespan.
Once strong example would be that Marty would be a total different person since interacting with his parent might lead up to them conceiving Marty at a second later thus another sperm cell impregnating Lorraine thus creating a different looking Marty.
Once strong example would be that Marty would be a total different person since interacting with his parent might lead up to them conceiving Marty at a second later thus another sperm cell impregnating Lorraine thus creating a different looking Marty.
But thinking about the movies this way is no fun.
After a heckknowswhat-th rewatch of BttF, I thought to myself, why the hell Dave isn't named Marty in the new timeline? It would've been an interesting twist
The butterfly effect originates from fiction aswell so it being the way things are is up to nogiation and there are different theories that make this defunct, so as was said before because time travel is purely hypothetical writers can be pretty leniant.
The butterfly effect originates from fiction aswell so it being the way things are is up to nogiation and there are different theories that make this defunct, so as was said before because time travel is purely hypothetical writers can be pretty leniant.
The butterfly effect is nothing special really. It just implies that changing a variable will make an increasingly difference further in the future.
Which is true.
I can think of two possible plotholes. Firstly, when Marty shows up at Twin Pines Mall Doc's truck opens up and the DeLorean reverses out. How exactly did Doc get into it? There was no way you could open the doors when it was inside the truck.
Secondly, wouldn't traveling through time put you in outer space? I mean, the earth is in a different position in our galaxy now than it would have been several months ago - if the DeLorean is able to travel through time but not space then wouldn't they just end up in the same place but the Earth has now moved?
I can think of two possible plotholes. Firstly, when Marty shows up at Twin Pines Mall Doc's truck opens up and the DeLorean reverses out. How exactly did Doc get into it? There was no way you could open the doors when it was inside the truck.
Secondly, wouldn't traveling through time put you in outer space? I mean, the earth is in a different position in our galaxy now than it would have been several months ago - if the DeLorean is able to travel through time but not space then wouldn't they just end up in the same place but the Earth has now moved?
First one - LOL, I noticed that too. I imagine Doc climbing into the DeLorean through a window. The poor, 65-year old man.
Second one - nah. The DeLorean travels through space relative to the earth surface and that's that. If we were to assume that this is not "correct" somehow, we would have to determine whether the DeLorean's physical movement would be relative to our earth axis, our solar system, our galaxy (also in a constant movement) or whatever. Space is relative!
After a heckknowswhat-th rewatch of BttF, I thought to myself, why the hell Dave isn't named Marty in the new timeline? It would've been an interesting twist
I thought that too, see how they liked Marty so much in the 50s and then Lorraine says "Marty, what a nice name.". But I guess the studio figured it'd make it more complicated than it needed to be.
then wouldn't they just end up in the same place but the Earth has now moved?
This statement is incorrect, because you can't end up "in the same place" unless you first say "in relation to" something. As Vainamoinen said, in relation to the surface of the earth, it wouldn't move at all. In relation to the center of the earth, it would end up somewhere else on the surface (possibly in a mountain or something). Then there's it's position in relation to the solar system, and the galaxy, and to various galactic clusters.
However, there is no universal frame of reference. In other words, there is no center to the universe. There is no point from which everything is moving, but rather everything moves in relation to everything else. So, you can't simply pull something out of space, let space move for a few years, then put it back where it was in space without a defined reference point.
Now, that still makes problems for time travel, because it raises the question of how the reference point is defined. Does the time travel event set the simplest reference point (the most local one) automatically? Something like electricity always taking the least resistive path? That would also spill over into the limitations of the ripple effect. How fast or far it propagates and such. Or do you have to find a way to build that reference point into your device?
That's what I've been thinking the Flux Capacitor might be doing (even before I understood points of reference myself, I knew the time machine had to have some way to translate 'day/month/year' into some system of time that made more sense as far as the universe was concerned, and thought about attributing that to the Flux Capacitor). Especially considering how Doc words it. "It's what makes time travel possible". A fix to a vital problem, rather than the means of travel itself.
I can think of two possible plotholes. Firstly, when Marty shows up at Twin Pines Mall Doc's truck opens up and the DeLorean reverses out. How exactly did Doc get into it? There was no way you could open the doors when it was inside the truck.
Ummm...I don't get this plothole.
He was simply in it all the time?
He just wanted to make a dramatic entry for Marty or something.
I thought that too, see how they liked Marty so much in the 50s and then Lorraine says "Marty, what a nice name.". But I guess the studio figured it'd make it more complicated than it needed to be.
On the other hand, Doc COULD become a good acquaintance of the McFly family (we are never really shown of what they think about him, especially in the new timeline), and Doc would say something like "You want to name your firstborn Marty?" - "Yeah, why not?" - "You CAN'T name your firstborn Marty! Just look at his face! Do you think this head shape and eyebrow position make him look like a Marty to you? No-no-no-no. Name him something else. Like Dave." - "Uh, ok, I guess we can name our next child Marty" *years pass* "Oh, it's a girl!" *years pass* "Now this is Marty. I hope you're okay with that, Mr. Brown, because if not, we will still call him Marty."- "Yeah, sure, he's Marty alright." *years pass* "Hm... now that I think about it, he does look more like that Marty than Dave does. What a remarkable coincidence."
The DeLorean is also operated by a remote control, remember? Doc could drive the truck to the mall with the DeLorean in the truck, use the remote to get the car out, get in the car, then use the remote to drive the car back into the truck (or just drive the car in regularly).
The other acceptable answer is, "It's a movie." :rolleyes::D
^
I wanted to put out that explanation too but what McSuperFly means is WHY did he get INSIDE the car. It would be an illogical move to go from driving the truck to getting inside the car inside the truck.
So I guess my best explanation is that he wanted to check something out in the car before Marty came and then he thought; 'hey! I want to make a dramatic entry!'
Well I suppose the real answer is "It's a movie" but if the alternate answer is that Doc drove the car up into the truck by remote control, drove to the mall, reversed the car out of the truck by remote, got in it and then drove it back into the truck where he sat and waited till Marty showed up so he could make his dramatic entrance it makes him sound even more crazy than he's portrayed in the movie.
No, up to the point he drives the DeLorean out of the truck on the mall everything is still 'normal' .
He obviously had to move the DeLorean with the truck as to not let other people see it. The easiest way to do this is with the remote. On Twin Pine Mall he could've gotten the car out of the truck to do some final checks. Now why he got in and drove it back in the truck is not that clear.
So probably dramatic ending for the sake of Marty and the audience...or...he wanted to be safe inside in case some Libyans start to shoot.
they mentioned in a rough draft of the first movie that george finds a newspaper clipping from the 50s when marty was there and he's in a photo and george has a double look but dismisses it, so i'm sure they had a moment but dismiss it,
NOW with old biff, the paradox idea takes into effect, yes the future should have changed around them, BUT you have to consider these facts, had marty and doc not gone to the future in the first place then old biff would not have gotten the book, and therefor could not have given it to his younger self in the first place, add the ripple effect and it does take some time to change the farther away you are, but given that marty and doc have the time machine they seem to be excused from temperal shifting probably because of it. or maybe paradox's dont happen like you think they would.
also the 2015 they visited was only 1 of an infinite possible 2015s, and mainly that 2015 looks like the future of the EXACT moment they left 1985 (hence the very 80's feeling future) and had nods to such things from the time, as in fashion, cold fusion (which doesnt work btw lol) and the idea we would have flying personal vehicles and a multitude of technological marvels, if they go back to 2015 from lets say 1995, it might be more realistic and not far off from today rather than quite advanced.
and for a plot hole on the third, when doc blew up the fuel pump using the alcohol, what did doc do with the gas from the delorean when he got there, prolly used it for something else, but why not say take the fuel lines and fuel pump from the freshly buried delorean in the mine and just add to the list of things to fix for his 50's counterpart, who could easily fix it in the 50's for sure. but then also after doc knows that marty made it back, technically seeing as paradoxs dont occur like he thought and he lived past the day he was supposed to die, he probably used the flux capacitor from the one buried in the mine for the train (how ELSE could he have made one in 1885 when he couldnt replace a micro chip or rebuild a fuel pump easily, and it took him 30 years in modern time as it was) saving doc would erase the need to go back in the first place so potentially doc could have used it for the train gone to the future made ANOTER put it back in the mine for 1885 so that "other" marty could simply go back to 1985 from the 50's or at least made it so he could still save him seeing as being in the past he could still keep the timeline intact. or doc could have "invented" a buncha stuff after marty left and used those funds back then to somehow make the time train, seeing as buying a whole train would be VERY expensive back then, unless he just "borrowed" another. still i think when it comes to time travel the possibilities are endless for the simple fact you can manipulate time at a whim, so as long as key events still happen, small things can be altered without huge impact.
and for a plot hole on the third, when doc blew up the fuel pump using the alcohol, what did doc do with the gas from the delorean when he got there, prolly used it for something else, but why not say take the fuel lines and fuel pump from the freshly buried delorean in the mine
Owned! This is a good find! Maybe Doc was afraid of a time paradox.
(how ELSE could he have made one in 1885 when he couldnt replace a micro chip or rebuild a fuel pump easily, and it took him 30 years in modern time as it was)
Yeah that was pretty crazy, though this time he does have the hoverboard's components to use too.
seeing as buying a whole train would be VERY expensive back then, unless he just "borrowed" another.
I always thought he built it mostly from all that wreckage in the nearby ravine.
Also, this reminds me. How do you think they're going to handle the re-appearance of the Delorean in the game?
Edit: I'd like to add that BttF has never shown the kind of "Bill and Ted" style time travel where someone would have the money to buy the something because they say after they buy it they'll go back in time and leave the money for themselves. And that I think he got the Mr. Fusion from even further than 2015.
When Biff steals the Delorean in 2015 to give the Alamaniac to his younger self, therefore altering the timeline, why is it that Biff returned to Doc and Marty in 2015? If he had altered the timeline, then surely he should have returned to the alternate 2015? Is it just me or is this a massive plot hole?
Also how did Biff figure out how to use the Delorean in the first place?
It's more of a time theory than a plothole, I think. A deleted scene shows us that Biff slowly gets erased after leaving Delorian back, because he's supposed to die earlier in this new timeline. If you change historic events and cause a paradox you let the changes happen to you, well, slowly I guess :I You can call it movie logic too.
It's more of a time theory than a plothole, I think. A deleted scene shows us that Biff slowly gets erased after leaving Delorian back, because he's supposed to die earlier in this new timeline. If you change historic events and cause a paradox you let the changes happen to you, well, slowly I guess :I You can call it movie logic too.
ah right.. well it's a shame that this scene was deleted because it would certainly clear things up.
Time travel can get very confusing lol.
In BttF, timelines don't alter instantly. Remember how in BttF1, Marty and his siblings were slowly disappearing from the picture?
2015 hadn't been fully altered yet. However, in the Biffworld timeline Lorraine killed Biff in 1996, which is why Biff is in such bad shape when he returns (and, in a deleted scene, disappears). He shouldn't exist at that point, and is being erased.
One of the Bob's actually explain this in the DVD Commentary for the 25th Anniversary Release...
It's in the FAQ Section and I found a link to it HERE
1.9: When Doc and Marty are in 1955-A, Doc says they can't return to the future to stop Biff from stealing the DeLorean, because it would be the wrong future. But if that's true, how did Old Biff manage to get back to the same future that he left? Shouldn't he have come back to a different future?
A: As should be clear from the answer to the previous question, we believe Old Biff DID indeed return to a different future — a "2015-A," which would have transformed around Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein (just as Doc explains how 1985-A would change into 1985 and instantly transform around Jennifer and Einstein). This would happen AFTER Old Biff returned with the DeLorean. For this reason, we made sure that Doc had caught Jennifer and exited the McFly Townhouse before Old Biff returned. Thus, by the time Marty and Doc are carrying Jennifer back to the DeLorean, there COULD be other residents in that townhouse — or perhaps the McFlys still live there. It is just as believable that the physicality of the neighborhood did NOT change as it is to believe that it did — so we didn't change it. We decided not to make anything of this idea because this is one of those difficult time travel concepts that general audiences have a real hard time understanding. (Try explaining this stuff to your mother and you'll see what we mean.) A detailed explanation of it would have slowed down the story, and most of the audience doesn't ever think about it. That's why we made certain things ambiguous and left various things open for interpretation in hopes that the possibility of at least one or two explanations would be better than a "definitive" explanation that you could find holes in. Let's face it, time travel is fantasy, so there's no way to "prove" anything. As filmmakers, we try to create a set of rule for our stories and stick by them, and stay consistent within the little "universe" that we've created.
As I was sitting on the toilet just now I found something weird.
Marty has the flyer with Jennifer's number in his pocket. Now she told him that she was staying at her grandmom's.....but why did he never call her?
She even called him a couple of times but he never returned the call. Shouldn't he at least have her known that she doesn't need to come over the next day since the car crashed?
And say for instance he DID call her, that would create a plothole. Because it's higly unlikely that Marty would fold the flyer and put it in his pocket again after removing it.
It's funny when you think about it. If Jeniffer didn't write that number on the flyer, Marty would've been stuck in '55.
Marty has the flyer with Jennifer's number in his pocket. Now she told him that she was staying at her grandmom's.....but why did he never call her?
I think he was being a "typical teenage guy". When his sister told him that Jennifer called a few times he looked at his watch and then looked confused, more than likely because he completely forgot to call her. He also forgot to meet up with Doc at the mall, either that or he was too lazy and slept through the music on his clock radio.
As I was sitting on the toilet just now I found something weird.
Too much information, man! But now that you mention it, some book (Was it the "Neverending Story"??) mentioned that books leave out a lot, so you never get told how your hero goes to the restroom.
The same is probably true for Marty in the BTTF movies. Naturally, from 7 to 11 p.m. he phoned up Jennifer and whined at length about the wreck... that his father is. But Gale chose not to show that lest we might think of Marty as a sissy.
There is something that doesn't add up. When Doc stays in 1885, how does me manage to acquire the parts for his new time machine, especially considering which time era he is in?
It wont be possible to rip parts from the Delorrean, as Marty has it.
Surely the delorrean which Doc travelled in to get to 1885 appears in the past, before he was supposed to be shot? Therefore this isn't an option.
I guess a lot of time has passed before he meets Marty in 1985, considering he has kids.
Having said that his new time machine looks very futuiristic. How would Doc get the parts?
Having said that his new time machine looks very futuiristic. How would Doc get the parts?
It appears that Doc used the Hoverboard technology to create the first version of the Time Machine that would run on steam. After that there's really no ambiguity, he went to the future (hence the 'already been there' phrase and the flying modifications on the train), did some modifications and went to 1985 to catch up with Marty.
Having said that his new time machine looks very futuiristic. How would Doc get the parts?
Well it's implied that 1985 isn't Doc's first stop, since the time train has a 2015 style hover conversion (would like to see the look on the mechanics face he bought the parts for that from). So any futuristic look it had in the movie could be post 1885 ad-ons. EDIT: Those giant induction coils on the side though? Definitely not futuristic, and they give a small hint at some of things he was working with in 1885.
As for how he built it in 1885 at all, he did have parts from things like the hoverboard and his radio to use, but even so I must say it is kind of an unbelievable feat.
As for how he built it in 1885 at all, he did have parts from things like the hoverboard and his radio to use, but even so I must say it is kind of an unbelievable feat.
Time Travel in itself is an unbelievable feat. But I have one of two ideas:
Since Doc returns with Clara and the kids, there has to be roughly ten years that have passed. Since Doc knows how to make a *working* Flux Capacitor, perhaps he had to play around with what was left over from Marty's trip into 1885 (the hoverboard, the radios, whatever was still in that Delorean's trunk!) and it took him 10 years to build it.
The other idea is that he went back to the Delgado Mine Shaft, disassembled the flux capacitor and time circuits, added it to his train, traveled into the future (be it 1985, 2015 or some other time period) and then retrieved the parts he would need to then build a second Flux Capacitor.
He would then have had to return back to the point in which he left and replace the original Flux Capacitor and Time circuits so Marty could use it in 1955, and use the new Flux Capacitor on the Time Train.
The other idea is that he went back to the Delgado Mine Shaft, disassembled the flux capacitor and time circuits, added it to his train, traveled into the future (be it 1985, 2015 or some other time period) and then retrieved the parts he would need to then build a second Flux Capacitor.
He would then have had to return back to the point in which he left and replace the original Flux Capacitor and Time circuits so Marty could use it in 1955, and use the new Flux Capacitor on the Time Train.
How would he be able to go back to the time shaft to retrieve Delorrean parts? That could only happen if Doc went back in time to before Marty arrived in 1885.
That would still cause a paradox if Doc travelled further into the future than 1955. Marty would need a working time machine, so it doesn;t make any difference if Doc was going to return later. Things would start to erase (similar to when Biff gave the Alimaniac to his younger self).
I do agree that the hoverboard and radio is the only logical explanation. There is no other way that Doc could obtain parts from the future.
Comments
Time travel =/= the same as just being at different places.
You can actually change history with effects on the future.
But here is something that's a true plothole though. But something that is understandibly omitted from the movies.
The butterfly effect. Marty appearing in different times with as little interaction as possible still has big consequences over a 30 year timespan.
Once strong example would be that Marty would be a total different person since interacting with his parent might lead up to them conceiving Marty at a second later thus another sperm cell impregnating Lorraine thus creating a different looking Marty.
But thinking about the movies this way is no fun.
After a heckknowswhat-th rewatch of BttF, I thought to myself, why the hell Dave isn't named Marty in the new timeline? It would've been an interesting twist
The butterfly effect is nothing special really. It just implies that changing a variable will make an increasingly difference further in the future.
Which is true.
Secondly, wouldn't traveling through time put you in outer space? I mean, the earth is in a different position in our galaxy now than it would have been several months ago - if the DeLorean is able to travel through time but not space then wouldn't they just end up in the same place but the Earth has now moved?
First one - LOL, I noticed that too. I imagine Doc climbing into the DeLorean through a window. The poor, 65-year old man.
Second one - nah. The DeLorean travels through space relative to the earth surface and that's that. If we were to assume that this is not "correct" somehow, we would have to determine whether the DeLorean's physical movement would be relative to our earth axis, our solar system, our galaxy (also in a constant movement) or whatever. Space is relative!
I thought that too, see how they liked Marty so much in the 50s and then Lorraine says "Marty, what a nice name.". But I guess the studio figured it'd make it more complicated than it needed to be.
However, there is no universal frame of reference. In other words, there is no center to the universe. There is no point from which everything is moving, but rather everything moves in relation to everything else. So, you can't simply pull something out of space, let space move for a few years, then put it back where it was in space without a defined reference point.
Now, that still makes problems for time travel, because it raises the question of how the reference point is defined. Does the time travel event set the simplest reference point (the most local one) automatically? Something like electricity always taking the least resistive path? That would also spill over into the limitations of the ripple effect. How fast or far it propagates and such. Or do you have to find a way to build that reference point into your device?
That's what I've been thinking the Flux Capacitor might be doing (even before I understood points of reference myself, I knew the time machine had to have some way to translate 'day/month/year' into some system of time that made more sense as far as the universe was concerned, and thought about attributing that to the Flux Capacitor). Especially considering how Doc words it. "It's what makes time travel possible". A fix to a vital problem, rather than the means of travel itself.
Ummm...I don't get this plothole.
He was simply in it all the time?
He just wanted to make a dramatic entry for Marty or something.
On the other hand, Doc COULD become a good acquaintance of the McFly family (we are never really shown of what they think about him, especially in the new timeline), and Doc would say something like "You want to name your firstborn Marty?" - "Yeah, why not?" - "You CAN'T name your firstborn Marty! Just look at his face! Do you think this head shape and eyebrow position make him look like a Marty to you? No-no-no-no. Name him something else. Like Dave." - "Uh, ok, I guess we can name our next child Marty" *years pass* "Oh, it's a girl!" *years pass* "Now this is Marty. I hope you're okay with that, Mr. Brown, because if not, we will still call him Marty."- "Yeah, sure, he's Marty alright." *years pass* "Hm... now that I think about it, he does look more like that Marty than Dave does. What a remarkable coincidence."
A fan will find an explanation for everything
Then how did he drive the truck to the mall?
The other acceptable answer is, "It's a movie." :rolleyes::D
I wanted to put out that explanation too but what McSuperFly means is WHY did he get INSIDE the car. It would be an illogical move to go from driving the truck to getting inside the car inside the truck.
So I guess my best explanation is that he wanted to check something out in the car before Marty came and then he thought; 'hey! I want to make a dramatic entry!'
He obviously had to move the DeLorean with the truck as to not let other people see it. The easiest way to do this is with the remote. On Twin Pine Mall he could've gotten the car out of the truck to do some final checks. Now why he got in and drove it back in the truck is not that clear.
So probably dramatic ending for the sake of Marty and the audience...or...he wanted to be safe inside in case some Libyans start to shoot.
NOW with old biff, the paradox idea takes into effect, yes the future should have changed around them, BUT you have to consider these facts, had marty and doc not gone to the future in the first place then old biff would not have gotten the book, and therefor could not have given it to his younger self in the first place, add the ripple effect and it does take some time to change the farther away you are, but given that marty and doc have the time machine they seem to be excused from temperal shifting probably because of it. or maybe paradox's dont happen like you think they would.
also the 2015 they visited was only 1 of an infinite possible 2015s, and mainly that 2015 looks like the future of the EXACT moment they left 1985 (hence the very 80's feeling future) and had nods to such things from the time, as in fashion, cold fusion (which doesnt work btw lol) and the idea we would have flying personal vehicles and a multitude of technological marvels, if they go back to 2015 from lets say 1995, it might be more realistic and not far off from today rather than quite advanced.
and for a plot hole on the third, when doc blew up the fuel pump using the alcohol, what did doc do with the gas from the delorean when he got there, prolly used it for something else, but why not say take the fuel lines and fuel pump from the freshly buried delorean in the mine and just add to the list of things to fix for his 50's counterpart, who could easily fix it in the 50's for sure. but then also after doc knows that marty made it back, technically seeing as paradoxs dont occur like he thought and he lived past the day he was supposed to die, he probably used the flux capacitor from the one buried in the mine for the train (how ELSE could he have made one in 1885 when he couldnt replace a micro chip or rebuild a fuel pump easily, and it took him 30 years in modern time as it was) saving doc would erase the need to go back in the first place so potentially doc could have used it for the train gone to the future made ANOTER put it back in the mine for 1885 so that "other" marty could simply go back to 1985 from the 50's or at least made it so he could still save him seeing as being in the past he could still keep the timeline intact. or doc could have "invented" a buncha stuff after marty left and used those funds back then to somehow make the time train, seeing as buying a whole train would be VERY expensive back then, unless he just "borrowed" another. still i think when it comes to time travel the possibilities are endless for the simple fact you can manipulate time at a whim, so as long as key events still happen, small things can be altered without huge impact.
Owned! This is a good find! Maybe Doc was afraid of a time paradox.
I always thought he built it mostly from all that wreckage in the nearby ravine.
Also, this reminds me. How do you think they're going to handle the re-appearance of the Delorean in the game?
Edit: I'd like to add that BttF has never shown the kind of "Bill and Ted" style time travel where someone would have the money to buy the something because they say after they buy it they'll go back in time and leave the money for themselves. And that I think he got the Mr. Fusion from even further than 2015.
Also how did Biff figure out how to use the Delorean in the first place?
Time travel can get very confusing lol.
2015 hadn't been fully altered yet. However, in the Biffworld timeline Lorraine killed Biff in 1996, which is why Biff is in such bad shape when he returns (and, in a deleted scene, disappears). He shouldn't exist at that point, and is being erased.
It's in the FAQ Section and I found a link to it HERE
See, but going by that, then Doc would've known to avoid the lightning strike that catapulted the time machine back to 1885 in the first place.
Marty has the flyer with Jennifer's number in his pocket. Now she told him that she was staying at her grandmom's.....but why did he never call her?
She even called him a couple of times but he never returned the call. Shouldn't he at least have her known that she doesn't need to come over the next day since the car crashed?
And say for instance he DID call her, that would create a plothole. Because it's higly unlikely that Marty would fold the flyer and put it in his pocket again after removing it.
It's funny when you think about it. If Jeniffer didn't write that number on the flyer, Marty would've been stuck in '55.
Is very likely that will be used in the game.
Thanks for that.
I think he was being a "typical teenage guy". When his sister told him that Jennifer called a few times he looked at his watch and then looked confused, more than likely because he completely forgot to call her. He also forgot to meet up with Doc at the mall, either that or he was too lazy and slept through the music on his clock radio.
I don't see why it would be.
But shouldn't he have called her? The car was wrecked. Plans cancelled.
But okay, you'e right.
Too much information, man! But now that you mention it, some book (Was it the "Neverending Story"??) mentioned that books leave out a lot, so you never get told how your hero goes to the restroom.
The same is probably true for Marty in the BTTF movies. Naturally, from 7 to 11 p.m. he phoned up Jennifer and whined at length about the wreck... that his father is. But Gale chose not to show that lest we might think of Marty as a sissy.
It wont be possible to rip parts from the Delorrean, as Marty has it.
Surely the delorrean which Doc travelled in to get to 1885 appears in the past, before he was supposed to be shot? Therefore this isn't an option.
I guess a lot of time has passed before he meets Marty in 1985, considering he has kids.
Having said that his new time machine looks very futuiristic. How would Doc get the parts?
It appears that Doc used the Hoverboard technology to create the first version of the Time Machine that would run on steam. After that there's really no ambiguity, he went to the future (hence the 'already been there' phrase and the flying modifications on the train), did some modifications and went to 1985 to catch up with Marty.
As for how he built it in 1885 at all, he did have parts from things like the hoverboard and his radio to use, but even so I must say it is kind of an unbelievable feat.
Time Travel in itself is an unbelievable feat. But I have one of two ideas:
Since Doc returns with Clara and the kids, there has to be roughly ten years that have passed. Since Doc knows how to make a *working* Flux Capacitor, perhaps he had to play around with what was left over from Marty's trip into 1885 (the hoverboard, the radios, whatever was still in that Delorean's trunk!) and it took him 10 years to build it.
The other idea is that he went back to the Delgado Mine Shaft, disassembled the flux capacitor and time circuits, added it to his train, traveled into the future (be it 1985, 2015 or some other time period) and then retrieved the parts he would need to then build a second Flux Capacitor.
He would then have had to return back to the point in which he left and replace the original Flux Capacitor and Time circuits so Marty could use it in 1955, and use the new Flux Capacitor on the Time Train.
That would still cause a paradox if Doc travelled further into the future than 1955. Marty would need a working time machine, so it doesn;t make any difference if Doc was going to return later. Things would start to erase (similar to when Biff gave the Alimaniac to his younger self).
I do agree that the hoverboard and radio is the only logical explanation. There is no other way that Doc could obtain parts from the future.