Jane isn't Molly though. They're opposites on how to survive. Molly hates the Crawford opinion see. Jane kind of agrees with it only lone wolf style instead
I get your point, and you're right when saying that Kenny is sometimes "blinded" by his impulses. But all those "loud voices" inside him are… more not the only ones which he listens to: you should add Clementine's voice to them. How many times did he stop because Clem had told him? A lot.
You judge him by his actions. That's funny, I actually do the same. And his actions at the end of the episode are precious, because they make you realize how hard he wanted to get to that point.
All he thinks about is feeling bad and having regrets? Who doesn't have regrets? Especially a man who's lost everything in his life. He can feel bad about what he did to Clementine, about what he did to the others, but if his thoughts had actually stopped there he would have never cared about the baby so much, and that's because he had a project in his mind: he wanted to start all over again. That obviously doesn't erase all his regrets, but it's some kind of hope for th… [view original content]
Her alcohol story was a sign. Think about it, the sugar crystals was gaining Clem's trust for good and the glass bits was Kenny's obvious rage. She knew Kenny was not above murder, She saw what he did to Arvo. They just lost their truck and are are stuck in the middle of a blizzard. Jane took the broken, dead man walking, and hid the last thing that held him to sanity. Good for you, Jane, you tried to prove a point, risking your life. Jane can pay, not Clem. She doesn't need blood on her hands because Jane decided to play with broken glass again.
Jane beat around the bush with Kenny. How long is it before she risks CLEM'S life with someone to prove a point? AT least Kenny was whole heartedly ready to let us go. Jane doesn't want to hear that after you find the baby.
What Jane did was not right. she had good intentions, but it was completely inappropriate. Kenny was no longer thinking clearly and complete… morely lost control after that. both made serious mistakes.
But in the end I could no longer defend Kenny. I stayed by his side for most of Season 2 but I no longer knew who or what I was defending anymore. Jane has flaws like every human-being. but at least she gets to the point and does what needs to be done. she is a valuable person to have as a companion in a post-apocalyptic world. and she is no longer that cold and distant person we met at the beginning. because of Clem, she has changed. I really like the relationship between the two. and I think both will benefit from it too.
She doesn't "risked" the baby's life. he was perfectly safe within a fully enclosed car. what she tried to do was show to Clem that Kenny was no longer able to lead or take care of anyone, she wanted Clem to saw with her own eyes what Kenny had become deep inside. what everyone in the group always spoke from the moment Kenny lost Sarita...
She was worried about the uncertain fate that Clem and the baby would have with Kenny. an insane and desperate journey, in the middle of an ice storm, with walkers everywhere! and that was exactly what I was seeing as well. in that time, Kenny was being a threat to me, Jane and AJ.
Imagine if at Kenny's ending. Wellington was never found, or if it was discovered. was revealed that it became an abandoned and forgotten city, looted and full of zombies. what would be the fate of Kenny, Clem and AJ? they probably would die of cold or starvation. isn't it?
So..That was my biggest fear! and that's why I did what I did. and I don't regret it. unfortunately in a post-apocalyptic world there is no place to risky and reckless decisions. and Kenny at that moment was being just that. as Luke said: "- You don't even listen to anyone else You just go on barking orders!"
Kenny was never a bad man. but he needed to be stopped. for good.
Her alcohol story was a sign. Think about it, the sugar crystals was gaining Clem's trust for good and the glass bits was Kenny's obvious ra… morege. She knew Kenny was not above murder, She saw what he did to Arvo. They just lost their truck and are are stuck in the middle of a blizzard. Jane took the broken, dead man walking, and hid the last thing that held him to sanity. Good for you, Jane, you tried to prove a point, risking your life. Jane can pay, not Clem. She doesn't need blood on her hands because Jane decided to play with broken glass again.
Jane beat around the bush with Kenny. How long is it before she risks CLEM'S life with someone to prove a point? AT least Kenny was whole heartedly ready to let us go. Jane doesn't want to hear that after you find the baby.
Look at it from this view, Clem wakes up to Jane rubbing salt in Kenny's wounds fresh up after two people he thought he could trust and wanted to save (Kenny wanted them all to go to Wellington, problems or not...after all he had the chance to say "Hey Clem, go get the kid, fuck these Shitbirds. We'll leave 'em." in spite of EVERYTHING, leaving him, Jane, Clem and a newborn behind for the little punk who lead an attack on your group that didn't help Rebecca's near dead state and forced Luke into a situation where he drowned (In spite of Luke and Kenny butting heads he was mad about Luke dying. Kid just had a birthday and was wounded.) but noooo.)
It was all a show for Clem. Jane kept insulting Kenny, attacking his dead, and you didn't hear Kenny go "FUCK YOU AND YOUR GODDAMNED SISTER, YOU LEFT HER TO DIE YOU BITCH." (To which I find Jane being totally ironic here considering both time his family got killed he was trying to get them out of the situation they were in).
And then the trap, the lie. It was all too much. This woman was nothing but terrible to Kenny just because she wanted him gone and Clem to be with her. Look back to Troy. They obviously had something, he trusted her and she discarded him so she could live. That's how Jane works. (Troy was a punk but...doesn't that seem like crap Carver would do?).
Kenny's was was blunt, messy and sometimes he came off like an ass but it was always for the group.
If a woman like that...someone I knew was a bad deal with a history of abandonment...came in and told me my surrogate son was whoopsie, lost in a storm full of zombies, then yeah...I'd snap. But after finding out it was all some game and that she could've gotten us all killed for it...no...fuck Jane. Jane is the worst. She's as up there as the St. Johns as far I am concerned.
I think he was blinded by grief and paranoia at that point.
Nothing Clem could have said or done would have prevented him from shooting her,just like there was nothing that could be done to prevent Lilly from shooting someone.
Kenny was the one bullying him, there's no reason for him to shoot Clem. It just adds insult to injury that my Clem quietly handed the gun to Mike, and Arvo still shot her. He hated Clem for some irrational reason. He even gives her the death glare when she was freezing to death after trying to help Luke. It's like he really wanted her dead.
I felt Arvo's death glares were just inserted into the story and were poorly written. If Clem has just said at any time, "Your sister was a walker! I had to shoot her!" I doubt Arvo would've shot her.
I tire of long paragraphs. I'm going to use bullets because my thoughts tend to be all over the place.
Just because Kenny lost a lot doesn't excuse his actions.
Kenny doesn't listen to anyone except Clem and lashes out at the people who doesn't agree.
Arvo led his gang to Clem however it was to get his gun/medicine(?) back. In other words he should not be blamed for his groups actions. I admit... because I believe your going to bring this up. The confrontation was Jane and or Clem's fault.
Both Jane and Kenny could have ended the fight. When Kenny came back the first thing he did was call Jane a "baby killer" and threw a punch. Jane pulled out a knife, said "I didn't kill him it was accident Kenny" and warned him to stay back. Short pause: She had time to say something and Kenny also had time to ask about the situation. Jane put her knife away. Kenny attacked. Jane may have lied but again I stress that her lie never did not say she killed the baby. Kenny didn't listen.
Okay the last bullet turned into a paragraph sorry.
Jane's only evidence of Kenny being a hot headed loose canon was from the way he treated Arvo who not long ago she threatened and robbed him… more at gun point. She was trying to turn Clementine against him by comparing him with Carver who beats kids and kills the handicapped. Did Kenny try to harm Mike or Bonnie or Luke or Jane herself before the stunt she pulled? Jane has done nothing but push him especially in the car and when Kenny gets out to search for fuel, she's telling Clementine to leave him for dead, trying to turn her cold as her. She wanted a fight by using a baby's death to provoke him and made Clementine have the option to shoot him, she knows how much Clem cared for him and for her to put her in that situation is cold. She wanted Kenny gone, she could've ended that fight at anytime but chose to go along with it just so she can kill him in self defense. She did it to have Clementine for herself as she was a replacement for her dead s… [view original content]
Jane's only evidence of Kenny being a hot headed loose canon was from the way he treated Arvo who not long ago she threatened and robbed him… more at gun point. She was trying to turn Clementine against him by comparing him with Carver who beats kids and kills the handicapped. Did Kenny try to harm Mike or Bonnie or Luke or Jane herself before the stunt she pulled? Jane has done nothing but push him especially in the car and when Kenny gets out to search for fuel, she's telling Clementine to leave him for dead, trying to turn her cold as her. She wanted a fight by using a baby's death to provoke him and made Clementine have the option to shoot him, she knows how much Clem cared for him and for her to put her in that situation is cold. She wanted Kenny gone, she could've ended that fight at anytime but chose to go along with it just so she can kill him in self defense. She did it to have Clementine for herself as she was a replacement for her dead s… [view original content]
I saw her point, but I was pissed she risked her life to do it. Rewatching the Lee scene and the fight I really feel like it would have been a better choice. He recognises the danger he is. I just dont like how Jane provoked him to do that, and how she picked such an awful and dangerous time to. What if Jane was late, and Kenny had time to blow up on Clem? Jane owes everyone honesty at this point in a ZA and she didn't all to prove a point. Kenny was on a rampage and yes, you're right, he needed to be stopped. But I could never have the strength to make Clem pull the trigger.
IDK man. FEELS. I just don't know anymore. Clem alone sounds better tbh.
As Lee had said, sad people do crazy things. Neither of them did the right thing, both were sad. There really is NO way to tell which was the right/easier thing to do.
She doesn't "risked" the baby's life. he was perfectly safe within a fully enclosed car. what she tried to do was show to Clem that Kenny wa… mores no longer able to lead or take care of anyone, she wanted Clem to saw with her own eyes what Kenny had become deep inside. what everyone in the group always spoke from the moment Kenny lost Sarita...
She was worried about the uncertain fate that Clem and the baby would have with Kenny. an insane and desperate journey, in the middle of an ice storm, with walkers everywhere! and that was exactly what I was seeing as well. in that time, Kenny was being a threat to me, Jane and AJ.
Imagine if at Kenny's ending. Wellington was never found, or if it was discovered. was revealed that it became an abandoned and forgotten city, looted and full of zombies. what would be the fate of Kenny, Clem and AJ? they probably would die of cold or starvation. isn't it?
So..That was my biggest fear! and that's why I di… [view original content]
Look at it from this view, Clem wakes up to Jane rubbing salt in Kenny's wounds fresh up after two people he thought he could trust and want… moreed to save (Kenny wanted them all to go to Wellington, problems or not...after all he had the chance to say "Hey Clem, go get the kid, fuck these Shitbirds. We'll leave 'em." in spite of EVERYTHING, leaving him, Jane, Clem and a newborn behind for the little punk who lead an attack on your group that didn't help Rebecca's near dead state and forced Luke into a situation where he drowned (In spite of Luke and Kenny butting heads he was mad about Luke dying. Kid just had a birthday and was wounded.) but noooo.)
It was all a show for Clem. Jane kept insulting Kenny, attacking his dead, and you didn't hear Kenny go "FUCK YOU AND YOUR GODDAMNED SISTER, YOU LEFT HER TO DIE YOU BITCH." (To which I find Jane being totally ironic here considering both time his family got killed he was trying to get them out… [view original content]
This is exactly how I felt about it.
Kenny was broken, sure, but who wouldn't be after what he's been through? Still, he tried super hard to keep his shit together and do what he believed was best, while everyone else (except Clem) tried really hard to piss him off.
All those nice, "sane" people? Arvo was a vindictive bastard who tried to kill the group every chance he got - even those who where kind to him. He was so clearly hostile that I wish we'd left him behind earlier. Bonnie? Weak and afraid, only out to save her own hide. If that means sacrificing other peoples lives? So be it. Whine a bit about it afterwards, but in the end she would do it again.
I have to admit I was shocked by Mike, as I got some Lee vibe from him initially, but in the end he, too, would have left Clem, the Baby, Kenny and Jane to die.
And well...Jane. I really came to like her. Thought Clem had gotten through to her. That she would have finally learned to trust, and more importantly, care about people, other than herself.
But the situation at the end really proved that she didn't. Despite there being absolutely no need to, she tried everything she could (including leaving a fucking baby in a thunderstorm full of zombies) to push Kennies buttons and endanger what little was left of the group. And for what? Prove that Kenny would snap?
Self fulfilling prophecy much.
Sometimes, the crazy person is not the one that fumes and shouts, but the one standing calmly by.
Kenny managed to keep his spark of humanity throughout all this. Jane lost hers first chance she got
Look at it from this view, Clem wakes up to Jane rubbing salt in Kenny's wounds fresh up after two people he thought he could trust and want… moreed to save (Kenny wanted them all to go to Wellington, problems or not...after all he had the chance to say "Hey Clem, go get the kid, fuck these Shitbirds. We'll leave 'em." in spite of EVERYTHING, leaving him, Jane, Clem and a newborn behind for the little punk who lead an attack on your group that didn't help Rebecca's near dead state and forced Luke into a situation where he drowned (In spite of Luke and Kenny butting heads he was mad about Luke dying. Kid just had a birthday and was wounded.) but noooo.)
It was all a show for Clem. Jane kept insulting Kenny, attacking his dead, and you didn't hear Kenny go "FUCK YOU AND YOUR GODDAMNED SISTER, YOU LEFT HER TO DIE YOU BITCH." (To which I find Jane being totally ironic here considering both time his family got killed he was trying to get them out… [view original content]
Not at all. She was right about Kenny. He's a ticking time bomb because he refused to learn to control his anger and stop antagonising peopl… moree just to have the higher moral ground.
There was no need for Kenny to kill, or try to kill, Jane. At the time she didn't lose the baby on purpose, and it's not as if it was a piece of cake to wander around in a snowstorm with walkers wandering around.
Suppose if Clementine was the one that had lost the baby and met Kenny? He would have done the same to what he did to Jane.
I don't sympathise with him one bit.
Exactly this Kenny went to far and Jane went to far. Jane did seem a bit out of character with that "I knew you would" line. She has survivor mentality for Christ sake. She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would sacrifice herself for a cause like that.
At the beginning of the fight Jane originally never wanted Kenny dead. She wanted Clem to leave with her and leave Kenny behind, alive. She … moresays, "I was just...going to try to talk you into coming with me. I just thought if you saw Kenny like that...you'd know we'd have to leave him." She took out her knife only after Kenny took a punch at her. And then Jane puts her knife away!, saying, "Don't you come near me, you son of a bitch." She didn't want to fight, even though she knew she was getting one. But then after they'd exchanged a few blows, if Clem says, "Jane, back off!" Jane says, "It's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery." This is the point where Jane has decided that, like others have said, Kenny would've killed Jane if AJ had died accidentally. What if that had been the case? Kenny confirms this later when he says, "I'll fuckin' kill you!" revealing his intention. Also note Jane's words--she's going to put Kenny "o… [view original content]
Everything about her implied that she either killed it, or at least left it behind to safe herself. It's not like it was a wounded adult too heavy to carry, but a tiny package doing frikkin nothing.
You don't just loose a baby to walkers and walk away unscathed.
It is when I found the baby stashed away, that I knew she had willingly risked the life of the baby, Kenny, herself and Clementine just out of some sick desire to "be right" and it became clear to me who had been the true Psycho in the group
Kenny? Sure he was emotional, and way over the edge (for good reason), but he still had a basic moral compass.
Jane? She would have stabbed you in the back too, if at some point in the future she had felt that you too could not be trusted.
Well, exactly, you say it, a Baby ain't a Soldier or Adult. It can't run away or fight back. And again, WHAT? You say that people can't lose something they hold? You know how often I drop things, while not running away from Zombies? I wouldn't drop a Baby in a normal situation, of course. Have you really never dropped something, especially in a tense situation, are you that perfect? You seem to think the Baby was glued to Jane's Body, what it most certainly wasn't. She could have tripped over a stone, fell down and have lost the Baby, and before she was fully aware and could stand up, a Walker grabbed the Baby. Remember, she's Human, and not perfect or invulnerable.
And yes, you'd be damn mad, most people would. I'd understand it, though it's still wrong, if Kenny punched her once, screamed at her, but NOT murder her. It could have been an accident, what I wrote could have happened (again, the Baby wasn't glued to her Body, and it's not unheard of that people drop things they hold), and Kenny would still have murdered her, seeing how he didn't even gave her a chance to explain what happened. You really want to justify murdering someone without giving him a chance to explain? Isn't that what people accuse Carver of?
A baby is very different from a soldier in battle, or any fully grown human. It's unreasonable for you to compare them.
Again, the baby b… moreeing bit by a walker whilst being carried by someone who ended up unscathed? Pretty much impossible.
A lot of people would go crazy in that scenario, myself included. It was heavily implied by Jane what happened.
I'm very glad you could see it that way. everyone in this community seems so "fanatical" about Kenny, emphasizing or ignoring everything that he did, only because he is Kenny!? Yes. I love the guy too. but that is no excuse for me to be complicit with everything he did. Everyone in the group at some point warned, or were concerned about his sanity. but none of them had balls to try to stop him for real.
But Jane had. and that's why I love her. because she does what needs to be done. even if it means hurting someone you love.
I really wish Luke was alive at the end. for me this would be the perfect ending! Luke, Jane and Clem. all protected in Howe's Hardware complex. Luke and Jane could finally have all the privacy they wanted, we'd be in a solid and secure place to raise a newborn, with a good amount of supplies. a newcomer family to share the place and help rebuild it all again.
It would almost feel like a real home and family again! :...(
I saw her point, but I was pissed she risked her life to do it. Rewatching the Lee scene and the fight I really feel like it would have been… more a better choice. He recognises the danger he is. I just dont like how Jane provoked him to do that, and how she picked such an awful and dangerous time to. What if Jane was late, and Kenny had time to blow up on Clem? Jane owes everyone honesty at this point in a ZA and she didn't all to prove a point. Kenny was on a rampage and yes, you're right, he needed to be stopped. But I could never have the strength to make Clem pull the trigger.
IDK man. FEELS. I just don't know anymore. Clem alone sounds better tbh.
As Lee had said, sad people do crazy things. Neither of them did the right thing, both were sad. There really is NO way to tell which was the right/easier thing to do.
I'm very glad you could see it that way. everyone in this community seems so "fanatical" about Kenny, emphasizing or ignoring everything tha… moret he did, only because he is Kenny!? Yes. I love the guy too. but that is no excuse for me to be complicit with everything he did. Everyone in the group at some point warned, or were concerned about his sanity. but none of them had balls to try to stop him for real.
But Jane had. and that's why I love her. because she does what needs to be done. even if it means hurting someone you love.
I really wish Luke was alive at the end. for me this would be the perfect ending! Luke, Jane and Clem. all protected in Howe's Hardware complex. Luke and Jane could finally have all the privacy they wanted, we'd be in a solid and secure place to raise a newborn, with a good amount of supplies. a newcomer family to share the place and help rebuild it all again.
It would almost feel like a real home and family again! :...(
R.I.P Luke..
Yes, the same defenseless man who had the gall to shoot an 11 year old girl and come back with a posse of Russians to rob the group.
He ran across in an attempt to flee, causing a panic, leading to the ice breaking.
Think of Arvo like a quitter Carver the first time we met him. He comes around hardly threatening, showing a small form of respect and courtesy. Next thing you know, he comes back guns brandished ready to steal (from) you. I think it's safe to say we all have a unanimous feeling of Carver...
You mean how he'd throw a hissy fit on a defenseless man who was not at all responsible for Luke's accidental death? Kenny was utterly brai… morenless when it came to his treatment of Arvo - any rational man would realize that it may be best not to constantly antagonize someone who's already been neutralized and lost their entire family.
Both are very flawed characters, who reacted as humanly possible to this horrible situation and before all the crazy shit went down. Both admit that they fucked up, taking it too far, Kenny admitting he was dangerous, and Jane admitting it was a bad plan. These people are far from perfect and I completely understand why both did what they did. It's a losing situation Clementine was in and the best way to go about it would be to trust your gut and that sounds to me like that's what everyone here did.
Using a baby as a chess piece in a sick game to break a broken man further...a lie to bait people...to use them for their own game. It wasn't the Cannibalism I was comparing her too. It was the deceitful mask of 'trust' both parties wore that I comare them to.
Yeah, neither of them are really completely sane now, or morally good, but my reaction was to shoot Kenny as he had the upper hand yet wasn't backing from killing Jane. So I pretty much had tears in my eyes but it seemed like the only right thing to do, if you can say either is right. It seemed like what Lee would've said
Using a baby as a chess piece in a sick game to break a broken man further...a lie to bait people...to use them for their own game. It wasn… more't the Cannibalism I was comparing her too. It was the deceitful mask of 'trust' both parties wore that I comare them to.
Yeah, and Implications are a good reason to murder someone, right? I mean, she might have a good explanation, but who cares, it's Kenny, he's allowed to murder someone without at least listen to their explanation. Carver did similiar things, and he's clearly a bad guy, but Kenny, he's okay.
Seriously, how can he have a "basic moral compass" and at the same time completely lose himself and murder someone who might not have done anything bad. He did not know if she really killed the Baby, she did say it was an accident, and yet he continued trying to kill her without listening to even one word. How can you justify a murder without one evidence or even a talk with the suspect? I'd understand if he'd screamed, or even punched her once, but murder? You can't just go around and kill people you think COULD have done something bad.
And what is it with you people and it being impossible to lose a Baby? You really never dropped something not too heavy? The Baby wasn't glued to her. She could have tripped over a stone or rock (remember, there was a storm with very bad sight), and while falling she could have lost the grip on the Baby, and the impact or a walker killed it. Is that really that impossible? You really think you'd be that perfect in a tense and life threatening Situation in the middle of a snow storm with extremely short and bad sight?
Jane tried to prove her point in the most stupid and selfish way possible, while Kenny murdered or almost murdered someone because they might have lost the Baby without listening to a single word, not caring if it was an accident (as Jane said before Kenny and Clem knew the Baby was fine) or not. Who's the real Psycho there? There is a difference between being willing to risk a fight to prove a point, and senseless starting to murder people who you don't even know if they are guilty or not.
If you are really okay with Kenny murdering Jane without knowing what happened, then I guess your Clem would fit best in Carver's group.
Everything about her implied that she either killed it, or at least left it behind to safe herself. It's not like it was a wounded adult too… more heavy to carry, but a tiny package doing frikkin nothing.
You don't just loose a baby to walkers and walk away unscathed.
It is when I found the baby stashed away, that I knew she had willingly risked the life of the baby, Kenny, herself and Clementine just out of some sick desire to "be right" and it became clear to me who had been the true Psycho in the group
Kenny? Sure he was emotional, and way over the edge (for good reason), but he still had a basic moral compass.
Jane? She would have stabbed you in the back too, if at some point in the future she had felt that you too could not be trusted.
I actually think that Jane is much better in being loyal if she settled for it (which she did in case of Clem, whole purpose of her coming back). In contrast to Kenny, she doesn't change her mind every time you disagree with her. The point about Jane being that lone wolf thing is, and that is more than obvious, that it's hard for her to deal with losing people she cares for. It's way harder for her to get over it and she thinks thrice about every time she stumbles in a situation in which she might end up caring too much for someone. That's why she is so reluctant, was from the very first moment they introduced her into the game. You could literally see her inner turmoil in almost every scene Clem talked to her.
Kenny on the other hand never seemed to have any doubts about his behavior. Yes, he was full of regrets because he lost his family, but he never got tired of jumping right into the next bunch of people to "care for", not even a baby that was randomly "dropped" at his feet. Again, his "reflection" consisted of self-pity about his (!) loss, not about his mistakes and shortcomings that leads to other people's deaths. Frankly, Kenny was a self-centered sob right from the start that always needed to be in charge (else "Fuck you, Lee") and that never changed. I can talk about the women he choose for mates and their expected obedience towards him, but I guess you get the point.
I get your point, and you're right when saying that Kenny is sometimes "blinded" by his impulses. But all those "loud voices" inside him are… more not the only ones which he listens to: you should add Clementine's voice to them. How many times did he stop because Clem had told him? A lot.
You judge him by his actions. That's funny, I actually do the same. And his actions at the end of the episode are precious, because they make you realize how hard he wanted to get to that point.
All he thinks about is feeling bad and having regrets? Who doesn't have regrets? Especially a man who's lost everything in his life. He can feel bad about what he did to Clementine, about what he did to the others, but if his thoughts had actually stopped there he would have never cared about the baby so much, and that's because he had a project in his mind: he wanted to start all over again. That obviously doesn't erase all his regrets, but it's some kind of hope for th… [view original content]
First who pulled a lethal weapon was Jane. We know from experience that Kenny is prone to getting into fistfights when overwhelmed with rage and frustration (remember season one for players whose Lee "knocked some sense into Kenny"). This was not much different.
Jane is the one who escalated this into a fight to the death by pulling a knife.
attacking
That he did.
trying to murder her
First who pulled a lethal weapon was Jane. We know from experience that Ke… morenny is prone to getting into fistfights when overwhelmed with rage and frustration (remember season one for players whose Lee "knocked some sense into Kenny"). This was not much different.
Jane is the one who escalated this into a fight to the death by pulling a knife.
Yeah...no. It really puzzles me why people compare Kenny to Carver. They couldn't be further apart.
Carver was the kind of person who thinks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand. He would murder you if you were a liability. Kenny would only murder you if you threatened to hurt the ones he loved.
Jane, ironically, was more akin to Carver in that regard, although not as far down that road by far (yet). But her motives for murder (Kenny in that regard, as we knew that's what she started the fight for. Killing him or at least forcing Clem to abandon him, even though she meant the world to him), were the colder ones of the two
As for the baby, as I explained elsewhere, it's not that there was no chance she could have lost it by accident. But 1) she was known as a capable person and would have been able to either fight to get the baby back, in which case there would be traces of a fight on her, or searched for it, in which case she would have likely found it by the sound of its screams, the same way Clem found it in the car. And 2) she had told Kenny just minutes ago that she thought the baby was a liablity and she didnt care for it much. So the second the gets her hands on it it "accidentaly" vanishes? Fat chance.
She knew which buttons to push to make Kenny snap and she mercilessly pushed them. Really brought it onto herself, willingly endangering the life of everyone in the process
Yeah, and Implications are a good reason to murder someone, right? I mean, she might have a good explanation, but who cares, it's Kenny, he'… mores allowed to murder someone without at least listen to their explanation. Carver did similiar things, and he's clearly a bad guy, but Kenny, he's okay.
Seriously, how can he have a "basic moral compass" and at the same time completely lose himself and murder someone who might not have done anything bad. He did not know if she really killed the Baby, she did say it was an accident, and yet he continued trying to kill her without listening to even one word. How can you justify a murder without one evidence or even a talk with the suspect? I'd understand if he'd screamed, or even punched her once, but murder? You can't just go around and kill people you think COULD have done something bad.
And what is it with you people and it being impossible to lose a Baby? You really never dropped something not too … [view original content]
Yeah this is where the infamous 'power of the stache' comments come in. It all came down to not wanting Clem to pull the trigger on another man she counted as family. I couldnt make her do it again and this means Kenny lives.
I will be making a thread about the whole Jane vs zkenny thing because I feel strongly about the fact that neither are justified at all.. It's all personal choice, and for me, I am with you. Luke all the way.
Screw em both, Luke and I can raise AJ. Fuck all the emotional wrecks.
I'm very glad you could see it that way. everyone in this community seems so "fanatical" about Kenny, emphasizing or ignoring everything tha… moret he did, only because he is Kenny!? Yes. I love the guy too. but that is no excuse for me to be complicit with everything he did. Everyone in the group at some point warned, or were concerned about his sanity. but none of them had balls to try to stop him for real.
But Jane had. and that's why I love her. because she does what needs to be done. even if it means hurting someone you love.
I really wish Luke was alive at the end. for me this would be the perfect ending! Luke, Jane and Clem. all protected in Howe's Hardware complex. Luke and Jane could finally have all the privacy they wanted, we'd be in a solid and secure place to raise a newborn, with a good amount of supplies. a newcomer family to share the place and help rebuild it all again.
It would almost feel like a real home and family again! :...(
R.I.P Luke..
Exactly this Kenny went to far and Jane went to far. Jane did seem a bit out of character with that "I knew you would" line. She has survivo… morer mentality for Christ sake. She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would sacrifice herself for a cause like that.
In that extremely unlikely case, she'd still be held responsible, and not be unscathed either. I certainly wouldn't drop a baby. And if a walker was near the baby, I'd fight it off.
Well, exactly, you say it, a Baby ain't a Soldier or Adult. It can't run away or fight back. And again, WHAT? You say that people can't lose… more something they hold? You know how often I drop things, while not running away from Zombies? I wouldn't drop a Baby in a normal situation, of course. Have you really never dropped something, especially in a tense situation, are you that perfect? You seem to think the Baby was glued to Jane's Body, what it most certainly wasn't. She could have tripped over a stone, fell down and have lost the Baby, and before she was fully aware and could stand up, a Walker grabbed the Baby. Remember, she's Human, and not perfect or invulnerable.
And yes, you'd be damn mad, most people would. I'd understand it, though it's still wrong, if Kenny punched her once, screamed at her, but NOT murder her. It could have been an accident, what I wrote could have happened (again, the Baby wasn't glued to her Body, and it's not un… [view original content]
I dont get why people say she started the fight . befor the real fight began , she even put her knife away to show kenny , she is no threat to him .
"Carver was the kind of person who thinks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand"
isnt kenny acting kinda the same way ? he is ready to kill/hurt people , steal food from them or leave them behind , if he has to . but why ? am i too weak or stupid to understand why he willingly hurts other people ? its either his way or no way . do as he says or get lost . i love kenny and his god like moustache , but he gave me no other choice then ending it in the snow for him
Yeah...no. It really puzzles me why people compare Kenny to Carver. They couldn't be further apart.
Carver was the kind of person who thi… morenks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand. He would murder you if you were a liability. Kenny would only murder you if you threatened to hurt the ones he loved.
Jane, ironically, was more akin to Carver in that regard, although not as far down that road by far (yet). But her motives for murder (Kenny in that regard, as we knew that's what she started the fight for. Killing him or at least forcing Clem to abandon him, even though she meant the world to him), were the colder ones of the two
As for the baby, as I explained elsewhere, it's not that there was no chance she could have lost it by accident. But 1) she was known as a capable person and would have been able to either fight to get the baby back, in which case there would be tra… [view original content]
What Jane did in the end was stupid and a poor way to go about things, but I'm going to be honest, I thought about wanting to shoot Kenny in the back of the head several times in episode 5 because I knew that he was a liability. It's the same reason I left Lilly on the road in season one. Can you deny that if Kenny had died in the gunfight at the start of episode 5 that everyone in the group might have been better off?
Never once did I excuse Kenny's actions because of the tragedy he endured.
Well can you blame him, he has an idea when nobody has one then one day later people come with an idea.
What if you don't rob him? He'll still accuse Clementine of stealing something that was never stolen and he sounded cocky when he was with his group. Is he bad guy? no but he is stupid.
Kenny went over board, I'm not gonna defend him but don't act like Jane is innocent or never brought it upon herself. She did nothing but kept pushing him and pushing him until she got her wish. She could've end the conflict at any moment but chose not to, she wanted Kenny gone, simple as that. When Kenny crashed the car, the first person she asked if they were OK was Jane, she wanted to make an enemy out of him. If Jane poked a hornets nest or poked a bear and they attacked, does that mean the hornets or the bear are insane or should she not have antagonized them in the first place. Jane was asking for trouble.
I tire of long paragraphs. I'm going to use bullets because my thoughts tend to be all over the place.
* Just because Kenny lost a lot … moredoesn't excuse his actions.
* Kenny doesn't listen to anyone except Clem and lashes out at the people who doesn't agree.
* Arvo led his gang to Clem however it was to get his gun/medicine(?) back. In other words he should not be blamed for his groups actions. I admit... because I believe your going to bring this up. The confrontation was Jane and or Clem's fault.
* Both Jane and Kenny could have ended the fight. When Kenny came back the first thing he did was call Jane a "baby killer" and threw a punch. Jane pulled out a knife, said "I didn't kill him it was accident Kenny" and warned him to stay back. Short pause: She had time to say something and Kenny also had time to ask about the situation. Jane put her knife away. Kenny attacked. Jane may have lied but again I stress that her lie never did … [view original content]
Jane lost all my respect because i knew staright away she didnt kill the baby i knew she had put him somewhere and she lied and manipulated kenny so im glad shes gone because altough has done some bad things i dont remember him lying
Yes, but Arvo had been beaten by Kenny if he went to slow or took to long. If I was Arvo, I'd have gone across the lake too. I wouldn't want to be beaten again.
I'll give you this one for that "one situation". I think episode 4 to 5 have some slight inconsistency. Since everyone was heading to Wellington in the first place. Then Mike and Bonnie decide to change their mind and totally forget about the original plan.
If you don't steal the medicine he asks for his gun doesn't he? I thought he said something along lines "wheres Jane" (she stole the gun). Yep Arvo was a stupid and cocky.
I never acted like Jane was innocent. If you look at my past conversations with you. I merely said that she didn't imply she killed the baby. I even say she was wrong for baiting Kenny like she did.
* Never once did I excuse Kenny's actions because of the tragedy he endured.
* Well can you blame him, he has an idea when nobody has one… more then one day later people come with an idea.
* What if you don't rob him? He'll still accuse Clementine of stealing something that was never stolen and he sounded cocky when he was with his group. Is he bad guy? no but he is stupid.
* Kenny went over board, I'm not gonna defend him but don't act like Jane is innocent or never brought it upon herself. She did nothing but kept pushing him and pushing him until she got her wish. She could've end the conflict at any moment but chose not to, she wanted Kenny gone, simple as that. When Kenny crashed the car, the first person she asked if they were OK was Jane, she wanted to make an enemy out of him. If Jane poked a hornets nest or poked a bear and they attacked, does that mean the hornets or the bear are insane or should she not have antagonized them in the first place. Jane was asking for trouble.
Comments
Jane isn't Molly though. They're opposites on how to survive. Molly hates the Crawford opinion see. Jane kind of agrees with it only lone wolf style instead
Nice
Her alcohol story was a sign. Think about it, the sugar crystals was gaining Clem's trust for good and the glass bits was Kenny's obvious rage. She knew Kenny was not above murder, She saw what he did to Arvo. They just lost their truck and are are stuck in the middle of a blizzard. Jane took the broken, dead man walking, and hid the last thing that held him to sanity. Good for you, Jane, you tried to prove a point, risking your life. Jane can pay, not Clem. She doesn't need blood on her hands because Jane decided to play with broken glass again.
Jane beat around the bush with Kenny. How long is it before she risks CLEM'S life with someone to prove a point? AT least Kenny was whole heartedly ready to let us go. Jane doesn't want to hear that after you find the baby.
She doesn't "risked" the baby's life. he was perfectly safe within a fully enclosed car. what she tried to do was show to Clem that Kenny was no longer able to lead or take care of anyone, she wanted Clem to saw with her own eyes what Kenny had become deep inside. what everyone in the group always spoke from the moment Kenny lost Sarita...
She was worried about the uncertain fate that Clem and the baby would have with Kenny. an insane and desperate journey, in the middle of an ice storm, with walkers everywhere! and that was exactly what I was seeing as well. in that time, Kenny was being a threat to me, Jane and AJ.
Imagine if at Kenny's ending. Wellington was never found, or if it was discovered. was revealed that it became an abandoned and forgotten city, looted and full of zombies. what would be the fate of Kenny, Clem and AJ? they probably would die of cold or starvation. isn't it?
So..That was my biggest fear! and that's why I did what I did. and I don't regret it. unfortunately in a post-apocalyptic world there is no place to risky and reckless decisions. and Kenny at that moment was being just that. as Luke said: "- You don't even listen to anyone else You just go on barking orders!"
Kenny was never a bad man. but he needed to be stopped. for good.
Look at it from this view, Clem wakes up to Jane rubbing salt in Kenny's wounds fresh up after two people he thought he could trust and wanted to save (Kenny wanted them all to go to Wellington, problems or not...after all he had the chance to say "Hey Clem, go get the kid, fuck these Shitbirds. We'll leave 'em." in spite of EVERYTHING, leaving him, Jane, Clem and a newborn behind for the little punk who lead an attack on your group that didn't help Rebecca's near dead state and forced Luke into a situation where he drowned (In spite of Luke and Kenny butting heads he was mad about Luke dying. Kid just had a birthday and was wounded.) but noooo.)
It was all a show for Clem. Jane kept insulting Kenny, attacking his dead, and you didn't hear Kenny go "FUCK YOU AND YOUR GODDAMNED SISTER, YOU LEFT HER TO DIE YOU BITCH." (To which I find Jane being totally ironic here considering both time his family got killed he was trying to get them out of the situation they were in).
And then the trap, the lie. It was all too much. This woman was nothing but terrible to Kenny just because she wanted him gone and Clem to be with her. Look back to Troy. They obviously had something, he trusted her and she discarded him so she could live. That's how Jane works. (Troy was a punk but...doesn't that seem like crap Carver would do?).
Kenny's was was blunt, messy and sometimes he came off like an ass but it was always for the group.
If a woman like that...someone I knew was a bad deal with a history of abandonment...came in and told me my surrogate son was whoopsie, lost in a storm full of zombies, then yeah...I'd snap. But after finding out it was all some game and that she could've gotten us all killed for it...no...fuck Jane. Jane is the worst. She's as up there as the St. Johns as far I am concerned.
I think he was blinded by grief and paranoia at that point.
Nothing Clem could have said or done would have prevented him from shooting her,just like there was nothing that could be done to prevent Lilly from shooting someone.
Kenny was the one bullying him, there's no reason for him to shoot Clem. It just adds insult to injury that my Clem quietly handed the gun to Mike, and Arvo still shot her. He hated Clem for some irrational reason. He even gives her the death glare when she was freezing to death after trying to help Luke. It's like he really wanted her dead.
I tire of long paragraphs. I'm going to use bullets because my thoughts tend to be all over the place.
Just because Kenny lost a lot doesn't excuse his actions.
Kenny doesn't listen to anyone except Clem and lashes out at the people who doesn't agree.
Arvo led his gang to Clem however it was to get his gun/medicine(?) back. In other words he should not be blamed for his groups actions. I admit... because I believe your going to bring this up. The confrontation was Jane and or Clem's fault.
Both Jane and Kenny could have ended the fight. When Kenny came back the first thing he did was call Jane a "baby killer" and threw a punch. Jane pulled out a knife, said "I didn't kill him it was accident Kenny" and warned him to stay back. Short pause: She had time to say something and Kenny also had time to ask about the situation. Jane put her knife away. Kenny attacked. Jane may have lied but again I stress that her lie never did not say she killed the baby. Kenny didn't listen.
Okay the last bullet turned into a paragraph sorry.
Ooops
I saw her point, but I was pissed she risked her life to do it. Rewatching the Lee scene and the fight I really feel like it would have been a better choice. He recognises the danger he is. I just dont like how Jane provoked him to do that, and how she picked such an awful and dangerous time to. What if Jane was late, and Kenny had time to blow up on Clem? Jane owes everyone honesty at this point in a ZA and she didn't all to prove a point. Kenny was on a rampage and yes, you're right, he needed to be stopped. But I could never have the strength to make Clem pull the trigger.
IDK man. FEELS. I just don't know anymore. Clem alone sounds better tbh.
As Lee had said, sad people do crazy things. Neither of them did the right thing, both were sad. There really is NO way to tell which was the right/easier thing to do.
I wouldn't compare her to the St Johns. They murder and eat people. Abandonment though bad isn't comparable to cannibalism
This is exactly how I felt about it.
Kenny was broken, sure, but who wouldn't be after what he's been through? Still, he tried super hard to keep his shit together and do what he believed was best, while everyone else (except Clem) tried really hard to piss him off.
All those nice, "sane" people? Arvo was a vindictive bastard who tried to kill the group every chance he got - even those who where kind to him. He was so clearly hostile that I wish we'd left him behind earlier. Bonnie? Weak and afraid, only out to save her own hide. If that means sacrificing other peoples lives? So be it. Whine a bit about it afterwards, but in the end she would do it again.
I have to admit I was shocked by Mike, as I got some Lee vibe from him initially, but in the end he, too, would have left Clem, the Baby, Kenny and Jane to die.
And well...Jane. I really came to like her. Thought Clem had gotten through to her. That she would have finally learned to trust, and more importantly, care about people, other than herself.
But the situation at the end really proved that she didn't. Despite there being absolutely no need to, she tried everything she could (including leaving a fucking baby in a thunderstorm full of zombies) to push Kennies buttons and endanger what little was left of the group. And for what? Prove that Kenny would snap?
Self fulfilling prophecy much.
Sometimes, the crazy person is not the one that fumes and shouts, but the one standing calmly by.
Kenny managed to keep his spark of humanity throughout all this. Jane lost hers first chance she got
Au contraire. All she did was prove a point about herself.
Exactly this Kenny went to far and Jane went to far. Jane did seem a bit out of character with that "I knew you would" line. She has survivor mentality for Christ sake. She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would sacrifice herself for a cause like that.
Everything about her implied that she either killed it, or at least left it behind to safe herself. It's not like it was a wounded adult too heavy to carry, but a tiny package doing frikkin nothing.
You don't just loose a baby to walkers and walk away unscathed.
It is when I found the baby stashed away, that I knew she had willingly risked the life of the baby, Kenny, herself and Clementine just out of some sick desire to "be right" and it became clear to me who had been the true Psycho in the group
Kenny? Sure he was emotional, and way over the edge (for good reason), but he still had a basic moral compass.
Jane? She would have stabbed you in the back too, if at some point in the future she had felt that you too could not be trusted.
Well, exactly, you say it, a Baby ain't a Soldier or Adult. It can't run away or fight back. And again, WHAT? You say that people can't lose something they hold? You know how often I drop things, while not running away from Zombies? I wouldn't drop a Baby in a normal situation, of course. Have you really never dropped something, especially in a tense situation, are you that perfect? You seem to think the Baby was glued to Jane's Body, what it most certainly wasn't. She could have tripped over a stone, fell down and have lost the Baby, and before she was fully aware and could stand up, a Walker grabbed the Baby. Remember, she's Human, and not perfect or invulnerable.
And yes, you'd be damn mad, most people would. I'd understand it, though it's still wrong, if Kenny punched her once, screamed at her, but NOT murder her. It could have been an accident, what I wrote could have happened (again, the Baby wasn't glued to her Body, and it's not unheard of that people drop things they hold), and Kenny would still have murdered her, seeing how he didn't even gave her a chance to explain what happened. You really want to justify murdering someone without giving him a chance to explain? Isn't that what people accuse Carver of?
I'm very glad you could see it that way. everyone in this community seems so "fanatical" about Kenny, emphasizing or ignoring everything that he did, only because he is Kenny!? Yes. I love the guy too. but that is no excuse for me to be complicit with everything he did. Everyone in the group at some point warned, or were concerned about his sanity. but none of them had balls to try to stop him for real.
But Jane had. and that's why I love her. because she does what needs to be done. even if it means hurting someone you love.
I really wish Luke was alive at the end. for me this would be the perfect ending! Luke, Jane and Clem. all protected in Howe's Hardware complex. Luke and Jane could finally have all the privacy they wanted, we'd be in a solid and secure place to raise a newborn, with a good amount of supplies. a newcomer family to share the place and help rebuild it all again.
It would almost feel like a real home and family again! :...(
R.I.P Luke..
Kenny does what need to be done too and Kenny is a good man Jane is just a bitch who needs to die
@GoneButLivedOn
See! this is exactly what I just said. fanatics! haha
Add kenny to the list... If you get between kenny and jane, kenny slaps and pushes clementine to the floor... He was crazy!
Yes, the same defenseless man who had the gall to shoot an 11 year old girl and come back with a posse of Russians to rob the group.
He ran across in an attempt to flee, causing a panic, leading to the ice breaking.
Think of Arvo like a quitter Carver the first time we met him. He comes around hardly threatening, showing a small form of respect and courtesy. Next thing you know, he comes back guns brandished ready to steal (from) you. I think it's safe to say we all have a unanimous feeling of Carver...
Both are very flawed characters, who reacted as humanly possible to this horrible situation and before all the crazy shit went down. Both admit that they fucked up, taking it too far, Kenny admitting he was dangerous, and Jane admitting it was a bad plan. These people are far from perfect and I completely understand why both did what they did. It's a losing situation Clementine was in and the best way to go about it would be to trust your gut and that sounds to me like that's what everyone here did.
Using a baby as a chess piece in a sick game to break a broken man further...a lie to bait people...to use them for their own game. It wasn't the Cannibalism I was comparing her too. It was the deceitful mask of 'trust' both parties wore that I comare them to.
Yeah, neither of them are really completely sane now, or morally good, but my reaction was to shoot Kenny as he had the upper hand yet wasn't backing from killing Jane. So I pretty much had tears in my eyes but it seemed like the only right thing to do, if you can say either is right. It seemed like what Lee would've said
Yeah, and Implications are a good reason to murder someone, right? I mean, she might have a good explanation, but who cares, it's Kenny, he's allowed to murder someone without at least listen to their explanation. Carver did similiar things, and he's clearly a bad guy, but Kenny, he's okay.
Seriously, how can he have a "basic moral compass" and at the same time completely lose himself and murder someone who might not have done anything bad. He did not know if she really killed the Baby, she did say it was an accident, and yet he continued trying to kill her without listening to even one word. How can you justify a murder without one evidence or even a talk with the suspect? I'd understand if he'd screamed, or even punched her once, but murder? You can't just go around and kill people you think COULD have done something bad.
And what is it with you people and it being impossible to lose a Baby? You really never dropped something not too heavy? The Baby wasn't glued to her. She could have tripped over a stone or rock (remember, there was a storm with very bad sight), and while falling she could have lost the grip on the Baby, and the impact or a walker killed it. Is that really that impossible? You really think you'd be that perfect in a tense and life threatening Situation in the middle of a snow storm with extremely short and bad sight?
Jane tried to prove her point in the most stupid and selfish way possible, while Kenny murdered or almost murdered someone because they might have lost the Baby without listening to a single word, not caring if it was an accident (as Jane said before Kenny and Clem knew the Baby was fine) or not. Who's the real Psycho there? There is a difference between being willing to risk a fight to prove a point, and senseless starting to murder people who you don't even know if they are guilty or not.
If you are really okay with Kenny murdering Jane without knowing what happened, then I guess your Clem would fit best in Carver's group.
I actually think that Jane is much better in being loyal if she settled for it (which she did in case of Clem, whole purpose of her coming back). In contrast to Kenny, she doesn't change her mind every time you disagree with her. The point about Jane being that lone wolf thing is, and that is more than obvious, that it's hard for her to deal with losing people she cares for. It's way harder for her to get over it and she thinks thrice about every time she stumbles in a situation in which she might end up caring too much for someone. That's why she is so reluctant, was from the very first moment they introduced her into the game. You could literally see her inner turmoil in almost every scene Clem talked to her.
Kenny on the other hand never seemed to have any doubts about his behavior. Yes, he was full of regrets because he lost his family, but he never got tired of jumping right into the next bunch of people to "care for", not even a baby that was randomly "dropped" at his feet. Again, his "reflection" consisted of self-pity about his (!) loss, not about his mistakes and shortcomings that leads to other people's deaths. Frankly, Kenny was a self-centered sob right from the start that always needed to be in charge (else "Fuck you, Lee") and that never changed. I can talk about the women he choose for mates and their expected obedience towards him, but I guess you get the point.
That he did.
First who pulled a lethal weapon was Jane. We know from experience that Kenny is prone to getting into fistfights when overwhelmed with rage and frustration (remember season one for players whose Lee "knocked some sense into Kenny"). This was not much different.
Jane is the one who escalated this into a fight to the death by pulling a knife.
Calm down grandpa, before you get a heart attack.
And after she got away from Kenny she sheathed it again - at which point Kenny hurled himself at her.
Yeah...no. It really puzzles me why people compare Kenny to Carver. They couldn't be further apart.
Carver was the kind of person who thinks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand. He would murder you if you were a liability. Kenny would only murder you if you threatened to hurt the ones he loved.
Jane, ironically, was more akin to Carver in that regard, although not as far down that road by far (yet). But her motives for murder (Kenny in that regard, as we knew that's what she started the fight for. Killing him or at least forcing Clem to abandon him, even though she meant the world to him), were the colder ones of the two
As for the baby, as I explained elsewhere, it's not that there was no chance she could have lost it by accident. But 1) she was known as a capable person and would have been able to either fight to get the baby back, in which case there would be traces of a fight on her, or searched for it, in which case she would have likely found it by the sound of its screams, the same way Clem found it in the car. And 2) she had told Kenny just minutes ago that she thought the baby was a liablity and she didnt care for it much. So the second the gets her hands on it it "accidentaly" vanishes? Fat chance.
She knew which buttons to push to make Kenny snap and she mercilessly pushed them. Really brought it onto herself, willingly endangering the life of everyone in the process
Yeah this is where the infamous 'power of the stache' comments come in. It all came down to not wanting Clem to pull the trigger on another man she counted as family. I couldnt make her do it again and this means Kenny lives.
I will be making a thread about the whole Jane vs zkenny thing because I feel strongly about the fact that neither are justified at all.. It's all personal choice, and for me, I am with you. Luke all the way.
Screw em both, Luke and I can raise AJ. Fuck all the emotional wrecks.
At least Kenny will be dropped for good in season three..
slightly bad writing is slightly bad.
In that extremely unlikely case, she'd still be held responsible, and not be unscathed either. I certainly wouldn't drop a baby. And if a walker was near the baby, I'd fight it off.
Again, it was pretty clear what happened.
I dont get why people say she started the fight . befor the real fight began , she even put her knife away to show kenny , she is no threat to him .
"Carver was the kind of person who thinks he has figured it out how the world works now, and everyone else is just too weak or stupid to understand"
isnt kenny acting kinda the same way ? he is ready to kill/hurt people , steal food from them or leave them behind , if he has to . but why ? am i too weak or stupid to understand why he willingly hurts other people ? its either his way or no way . do as he says or get lost . i love kenny and his god like moustache , but he gave me no other choice then ending it in the snow for him
What Jane did in the end was stupid and a poor way to go about things, but I'm going to be honest, I thought about wanting to shoot Kenny in the back of the head several times in episode 5 because I knew that he was a liability. It's the same reason I left Lilly on the road in season one. Can you deny that if Kenny had died in the gunfight at the start of episode 5 that everyone in the group might have been better off?
Never once did I excuse Kenny's actions because of the tragedy he endured.
Well can you blame him, he has an idea when nobody has one then one day later people come with an idea.
What if you don't rob him? He'll still accuse Clementine of stealing something that was never stolen and he sounded cocky when he was with his group. Is he bad guy? no but he is stupid.
Kenny went over board, I'm not gonna defend him but don't act like Jane is innocent or never brought it upon herself. She did nothing but kept pushing him and pushing him until she got her wish. She could've end the conflict at any moment but chose not to, she wanted Kenny gone, simple as that. When Kenny crashed the car, the first person she asked if they were OK was Jane, she wanted to make an enemy out of him. If Jane poked a hornets nest or poked a bear and they attacked, does that mean the hornets or the bear are insane or should she not have antagonized them in the first place. Jane was asking for trouble.
Hey I didn't bring Lilly into this, Roy1306 did.
Jane lost all my respect because i knew staright away she didnt kill the baby i knew she had put him somewhere and she lied and manipulated kenny so im glad shes gone because altough has done some bad things i dont remember him lying
Yes, but Arvo had been beaten by Kenny if he went to slow or took to long. If I was Arvo, I'd have gone across the lake too. I wouldn't want to be beaten again.
Okay sorry about that
I'll give you this one for that "one situation". I think episode 4 to 5 have some slight inconsistency. Since everyone was heading to Wellington in the first place. Then Mike and Bonnie decide to change their mind and totally forget about the original plan.
If you don't steal the medicine he asks for his gun doesn't he? I thought he said something along lines "wheres Jane" (she stole the gun). Yep Arvo was a stupid and cocky.
I never acted like Jane was innocent. If you look at my past conversations with you. I merely said that she didn't imply she killed the baby. I even say she was wrong for baiting Kenny like she did.