Jane didn't even attempt to try to calm down and rationalize Kenny, she just kept saying, I won't back down, after Kenny was just pacing aro… moreund and not doing anything to her, she was looking for a fight. Belan admits that Kenny had a fault in the fight as well, I've already argued with that point and in some cases I agree with Belan.
Jane didn't even attempt to try to calm down and rationalize Kenny, she just kept saying, I won't back down, after Kenny was just pacing around and not doing anything to her, she was looking for a fight. Belan admits that Kenny had a fault in the fight as well, I've already argued with that point and in some cases I agree with Belan.
Why are you telling me what I meant to say? That makes no sense. I simply said Jane was trying to paint Kenny in a bad light. As in purposely put him in a situation where he will look bad. Whether the reality of the situation is legitimate or not was totally irrelevant as to what I was trying to argue there.
Now who made no sense was you haha. in fact, you repeated what I said and then disagreed with what you had mentioned in the first place. you contradicted yourself ..
You have no idea what she was for sure trying to do there. You're only speculating. There are not any "facts" here. And if there are any that I am not thinking of for some reason, you're not telling me any for whatever reason.
You actually played this game? I really need to tell you everything that happened in episodes 3, 4 and 5?? the facts are there for you to analyze and play countless times if you want...
He was not going "nuclear" with everyone what so ever.
Really??? So you assume that everyone was just "joking" about it? Luke was joking, Jane was joking, Mike was joking, Bonnie was Joking, Rebbeca was joking, Carlos was joking... I'll simply ignore that part of your comment..
They thought his plan was suicide even though they clearly didn't really even know what they were talking about.
They didn't know what they were talking about??? ok, next topic..
You also really don't have any proof that the group feared that Kenny would attack them.
I think the fact that the group have split because of Kenny is proof enough of that. I'll ask again. you actually played the game?
It was sick and twisted. Jane purposely took advantage of Kenny's grief stricken mentality.
I have nothing more to say about it. I've made clear my opnion, and I will not re-write everything again.
What do you mean supposedly can not even exist? That was just the opinion of a few individuals. That doesn't mean it was pointless to search for. The whole point of going up into that cold was that it was a defense against the walkers
Of course this was not a completely pointless choice. but at the same time. there was a considerable chance that this was nothing but a story, a rumor. at any time you really don't doubted that Kenny was dragging you to a dead end? Fortunately Wellington really existed in fact. but what if the rumors were false? it ever crossed your mind??
Oh, so now you're saying that Jane's sick plan was a result of her disagreeing with Kenny's plan?
Sick plan?? explain to me in what sense this plan is sick? I want to understand your concept of "sick".
That's ridiculous. Kenny's plan was obviously very fruitful. None of your concerns were ever proven to be true. The risk was possibly higher because they didn't know if the place actually existed or not, but the reward was also higher.
You talk like you know Wellington from head to toe .. you have no proof that the place is really all that everyone claims to be. how can you call it a "reward" if you have no idea what you'll find.. it is simply a poor and empty way of seeing things.
Wellington had already been explained. Everyone seemed to understand what it was. What was there not to get? It was a safe haven way up north. And obviously he was not trying to talk it through with Jane there. He was simply telling her how it was going to be. If she didn't like she could leave.
Oh.. yes.. and like him, the opinion of others doesn't interest to you doesn't it? all that matters is what you think is right. good job on that..
The whole point was the two children. He thought Wellington was their best chance. He never implied that he would rather freeze to death than agree with someone else's plan... you're 100% speculating once again.
I'm sorry if you didn't understand my comment. I even copied the line of dialogue from the game to you, I really can not be more clear than that...
Kenny stopped rationalizing the moment he lost Sarita. is it really so hard to see? Seeing a fact is different than ignore it.
Wanna… more try providing some examples to compare to? He doesn't act noticeably different to me other than the fact that he is more irritable.
Nope. These are two completely different concepts of one another. What you mean is that she was distorting reality to please herself. whereas what I meant.
Why are you telling me what I meant to say? That makes no sense. I simply said Jane was trying to paint Kenny in a bad light. As in purposely put him in a situation where he will look bad. Whether the reality of the situation is legitimate or not was totally irrelevant as to what I was trying to argue there.
It's that she was trying to show a reality that was already there from the beginning and that was negatively affecting all the people around. this is a fact, and there are no arguments against fact… [view original content]
I'm not talking about Jane's plan, or if she figured it all out.
I'm asking how you'd feel if AJ didn't start to cry, and was then incidentally left to die alone in the car because he wouldn't have been found. With that concept in mind, what would your thoughts be regarding whether or not it was worth Jane hiding AJ just so Kenny could snap in front of Clem?
Well I doubt we'd ever find out. We'd just assume she did accidentally get the baby killed. In my game she survived and I figured she was about to tell me the truth but the baby started wailing.
Of course I could see how unhinged Kenny was getting long before this happened. Her trick was even more pointless but the game forced you to side with Kenny until then. It was stupid.
I'm not talking about Jane's plan, or if she figured it all out.
I'm asking how you'd feel if AJ didn't start to cry, and was then incide… morentally left to die alone in the car because he wouldn't have been found. With that concept in mind, what would your thoughts be regarding whether or not it was worth Jane hiding AJ just so Kenny could snap in front of Clem?
We won't ever find out. It's not a reality, but a hypothesis. It's not grounded by anything observable.
If Jane hid AJ before getting killed by Kenny, and AJ was never found by Clem afterwards, then what does that make Jane, given the context of her plan?
Well I doubt we'd ever find out. We'd just assume she did accidentally get the baby killed. In my game she survived and I figured she was … moreabout to tell me the truth but the baby started wailing.
Of course I could see how unhinged Kenny was getting long before this happened. Her trick was even more pointless but the game forced you to side with Kenny until then. It was stupid.
You guys are missing the whole point of the episode, or even the entire series for that matter. That moment in the RV is when the whole seas… moreon came together for me, that's when I figured it out. I'll quote Lee Everett here.
"Part of growing up is doing what's best for people you care about... Even if it means hurting someone else."
It's all about the choices you make, attempt to make, or are forced to make. You gotta do what you think is best, and I don't care who you are, you're going to fuck up royally at LEAST once, and at great costs. You can only do so much, you can only do what you think is best for those you care about the most, for those that you've got left. The thing is you have to realize that goes for everybody, the player isn't the only one making tough choices.
I blame neither Jane nor Kenny, or anyone else for that matter throughout the entire series. These people have been through unspeakable, dark shit, things that w… [view original content]
Now who made no sense was you haha. in fact, you repeated what I said and then disagreed with what you had mentioned in the first place. you contradicted yourself ..
No, you simply did not understand what I was trying to tell you, so I elaborated. I'm telling you we were essentially saying the same things. I said Jane was trying to paint him in a bad light, and you somehow assumed this was me saying that Jane was trying to twist reality, even though there is literally no reason to assume that at all. I'm just telling you that Jane put him in a bad situation. Its very simple.. there was no contradiction at all. You're trying to apply your own meaning to my words. I'm telling you what I meant. Just leave it at that.
You actually played this game? I really need to tell you everything that happened in episodes 3, 4 and 5?? the facts are there for you to analyze and play countless times if you want...
Obviously you don't need to tell me everything that happened in the episodes. You only need to do enough to actually provide evidence at to what you're trying to prove. Its kind of pointless otherwise.
Really??? So you assume that everyone was just "joking" about it? Luke was joking, Jane was joking, Mike was joking, Bonnie was Joking, Rebbeca was joking, Carlos was joking... I'll simply ignore that part of your comment..
Really. Now you're assuming that I'm trying to say people were joking? Like.. what? I feel like I'm wasting my time here. There is literally no reason to assume these things.
I simply think you were exaggerating, or can't correctly remember what happened. Carlos, Luke, and Rebecca were only ever concerned about Kenny being reckless. Luke only mentions it once, and he only talks about the possibility of it because of Kenny's depression. Mike, Bonnie, and Jane were only ever concerned about how Kenny treated Arvo. That's it. They were also a little concerned when Kenny took out some steam on a dead walker.. but that is pretty minor. The only instance of Kenny exploding on someone or going "nuclear" was the whole Arvo situation.
They didn't know what they were talking about??? ok, next topic..
They didn't. They had no way of knowing if Kenny's plan was suicidal or not. They were just speculating that it would fail without even giving it a chance. That is all I am saying.
I think the fact that the group have split because of Kenny is proof enough of that. I'll ask again. you actually played the game?
No, this isn't proof in the slightest. We don't know that they wanted to leave Kenny because they were personally afraid that he would attack them. There is no indication of that at all. Like everything else, you are completely speculating... which is fine, but don't try and pass it off as fact when you're only guessing.
I have nothing more to say about it. I've made clear my opnion, and I will not re-write everything again.
So in other words you're going to completely ignore my my opinion disregard all my points just because you have a separate opinion. Gotcha.
Of course this was not a completely pointless choice. but at the same time. there was a considerable chance that this was nothing but a story, a rumor. at any time you really don't doubted that Kenny was dragging you to a dead end? Fortunately Wellington really existed in fact. but what if the rumors were false? it ever crossed your mind??
I didn't care if the place ended up being real or not. That doesn't mean it isn't worth searching for. Kenny even admits the same opinion. Its not a death sentence if you go up there and can't manage to find it. It is very arguable that it is worth taking a shot.
Sick plan?? explain to me in what sense this plan is sick? I want to understand your concept of "sick".
Sick, as in morally disturbing and twisted.
You talk like you know Wellington from head to toe .. you have no proof that the place is really all that everyone claims to be. how can you call it a "reward" if you have no idea what you'll find.. it is simply a poor and empty way of seeing things.
Obviously no one had any proof at the time. But once again, that doesn't mean there was not merit in taking a chance. Wellington did end up being what it was claimed to be. Just because something may not exist does not mean that it is stupid to go looking for it. Kenny (and myself) decided it was worth the risk. Even if Wellington turned out not to be legit they always could have given up and gone back. You're acting like going up there is almost a death sentence unless they find Wellington. Obviously there would be other people living up north and probably managing just fine. Its not just a giant death trap because its cold outside (I live in a place colder than Wellington, I know what it is like).
Oh.. yes.. and like him, the opinion of others doesn't interest to you doesn't it? all that matters is what you think is right. good job on that..
I really don't care. Kenny got the truck working, he can take it where he pleases. Maybe if Mike and Bonnie didn't ditch the group there would have been a discussion to be had.
I'm sorry if you didn't understand my comment. I even copied the line of dialogue from the game to you, I really can not be more clear than that.
Nowhere in the comment you provided did Kenny say he would rather freeze to death rather than accept someone else's idea.
"Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead fingers".
Are you honestly telling me that he would rather freeze to death just because he used the world "cold" in the expression? Please tell me no. Its just an expression. You're not supposed to take it literally. The word cold is always used in that expression, in terms of a body being cold because its dead.
Why are you telling me what I meant to say? That makes no sense. I simply said Jane was trying to paint Kenny in a bad light. As in purposel… morey put him in a situation where he will look bad. Whether the reality of the situation is legitimate or not was totally irrelevant as to what I was trying to argue there.
Now who made no sense was you haha. in fact, you repeated what I said and then disagreed with what you had mentioned in the first place. you contradicted yourself ..
You have no idea what she was for sure trying to do there. You're only speculating. There are not any "facts" here. And if there are any that I am not thinking of for some reason, you're not telling me any for whatever reason.
You actually played this game? I really need to tell you everything that happened in episodes 3, 4 and 5?? the facts are there for you to analyze and play countless times if you want...
He was not going "nuclear" with every… [view original content]
Then he beats a defenseless prisoner "Arvo deserved everything he got" Yes its easy to say that now AFTER he shoots us. But before that the only crime Arvo committed was being there after Luke died.
I think you need to rewatch the end of episode 4 and the beginning of episode 5, because Arvo and his crew want to rob Clems group and they are willing to shoot everybody. Do you remember when Arvo said that his sister desperately needs the medicine? You know the meds that he was trying to hide in the garbage can. He then tricks his own group by telling them that somebody stole the meds from him. He even lies to his own "beloved" sister when she asks him if those are the people that supposedly robbed him. At that point the only person he actually met before, is Clementine. He didn't meet with Luke, Bonnie, Mike, Kenny or Rebecca. But he still replies with:
Да, это они. pronounced "Dah, ett-tah ah-nee (Yes, it's them.) "они" is the third person plural, so he tells them that the group stole from him and not a single person.
The whole group could have gotten killed, because of his scheme. Just something to consider before evaluating poor little Arvos character.
Kenny has a way of making history repeat itself.
He lashes out at Clem for getting Sarita killed "but he apologized"
Then he lashes ou… moret at anyone who disagrees with him "He's just looking out for the group" Yeah thats why almost everyone else ditched us
Then he beats a defenseless prisoner "Arvo deserved everything he got" Yes its easy to say that now AFTER he shoots us. But before that the only crime Arvo committed was being there after Luke died.
"Jane was egging him on in the car bringing up his dead family" And the entire time Kenny was being a reasonable nice guy? This is what happens when people argue. They get heated they don't think of what they're saying. Seems to happen a lot with Kenny.
Then the fight. What it all comes down to. I've lost count of how many people say Jane "manipulated" Kenny into it. Well whose fucking fault is that? Kenny was displaying real anger issues. He was bordering on violent when… [view original content]
Kenny has a way of making history repeat itself.
He lashes out at Clem for getting Sarita killed "but he apologized"
Then he lashes ou… moret at anyone who disagrees with him "He's just looking out for the group" Yeah thats why almost everyone else ditched us
Then he beats a defenseless prisoner "Arvo deserved everything he got" Yes its easy to say that now AFTER he shoots us. But before that the only crime Arvo committed was being there after Luke died.
"Jane was egging him on in the car bringing up his dead family" And the entire time Kenny was being a reasonable nice guy? This is what happens when people argue. They get heated they don't think of what they're saying. Seems to happen a lot with Kenny.
Then the fight. What it all comes down to. I've lost count of how many people say Jane "manipulated" Kenny into it. Well whose fucking fault is that? Kenny was displaying real anger issues. He was bordering on violent when… [view original content]
I've lost count of how many people say Jane "manipulated" Kenny into it. Well whose fucking fault is that?
Does Jane manipulate Kenny or does Kenny manipulate Jane? The one who does the manipulation is at fault, it is that simple.
Look, it may be true that Jane is trying to replace her sister with Clementine, but do you realise that Kenny lost his son, Duck, and he is trying to replace him with Clementine ?
Are you fucking kidding me, how could Jane explain it when she just said: ''It was an accident'' and Kenny immediately said: ''BULLSHIT'', he didn't even let her talk, at all.
She never actually calls for Clem to kill Kenny. When you have someone on top of you who's about to jam a knife in your chest, "Help!" seems… more like a reasonable thing to call out.
I recommend you replay that scene and don't pick up the gun. Jane only calls for "help" when she sees Clem pointing the gun at Kenny.
Suppose she wasn't lying about AJ. Think about what Kenny did. He murdered a member of the group based on the assumption that they did something wrong.
Now what exactly did Jane explain? She just claims once that it was an accident. That's it. She makes no real attempt at explaining anything. And she has plenty of time. And that's where the Lilly situation was fundamentally different. Lilly interrogates Ben. There is quite a lot of talking on Lillys, Bens and Dougs/Carleys side. Lilly has no real reason or evidence that any of them cooperated with the bandits and she arbitrarily executes one of them without being t… [view original content]
The thing is she's selfish because she wants to keep Clem to herself. Bonnie asks what does Clem want and that's something to really conside… morer here. Jane doesn't do what Clem wants. Jane does what JANE wants. She knows Clem wouldn't just leave Kenny so she has to force it. THAT is what's selfish here. She isn't really considering Clem's feelings and puts AJ in danger just to get her way. However Kenny doesn't put Clem or AJ in danger once and instead protects them even going so far as to giving them up in order to help them. Basically to sum it up Jane will compromise AJ's wellbeing to help herself, whereas Kenny will compromise himself in order to help Clem or AJ.
Actually no he never listens to the group, for example when he started the truck, EVERYONE disagreed to go to Wellington, he was like ''I started the truck, we are going to Wellington(IDGAF what u think I'm the boss here)'' so yeah, he really cares what the group thinks, seriously.
He isn't. People tend to sometimes think he is because his opinions fall in the minority.. but he was always looking out for the interest of… more the group. For everyone refusing to get on board with his plans, he turned out to be correct though. If I were him, I would be very frustrated as well.
If anyone was selfish it was the group around him. Whenever they really needed his help they came crawling, but the minute they disagreed with one of his plans, he would just become some crazy suicidal idiot in their minds.
I think you might be right about Kenny. In his moments of self-clarity I do think he realises this.
However I think Jane is slightly different. I think Jane doesn't want to turn Clem in to her. At first this is what she's thinking, but as Clem reminds her of her sister, Jane slowly begins to - once again - be able to open up to people and actually bond with them. The way I see it, at the end of season 2 there's room for Jane's character to progress in a positive direction; more trusting and stronger for it. There's only room for Kenny's character to change in a negative direction; more anger, less control - making himself and his surroundings less safe.
She got them out of Carvers lair, you all know how bad that place is and if they stayed any longer Carver could've killed another member, raped, tortured? So she basically saved some lives here
She killed Troy while he had the group at gunpoint. Nobody else had a gun... Also she was smart enough to make Troy a dinnerbell ( Distraction ) to make their escape easier.
She saved Rebecca and Clementine from the herd.
She saved Sarah and Luke from the trailer park, nobody else would've gone out looking for them. She did wanna save Sarah but she knew Sarah wasn't gonna make it. Also when Clementine tries to get Sarah out she tells Clementine to come out because if she stays any longer she could've died with Sarah (She saves Clem 3 times now)
She found the observation deck which saved a couple lives
She protected Clem from Arvo, what if Jane wasn't there and Arvo saw Clem? Who knows what would've happend then.
She teaches Clem new survival skills
She gives Clem a nail file which saves her life in ep 5
She cares for the group to steal meds from some random guy who has a sick sister
She saves Kenny and the group from Vitali
She saves Clementine when she is about to freeze to death. She risks her life to save Clem, she ran on the ice lake which could've broke any minute. She made the fire for Clem and got her warm with HER NAIL FILE/MATCHES.
She saves Clem from Mike and Bonnie and Arvo ( Sure Kenny helped but if only Kenny was there they wouldve overpowered Kenny and stole the truck )
She takes care of the baby 2 times
She tries to do the best for Clem by revealing who Kenny really is and what he would if the baby died
If you let her live she will take you to Howes and you will find food and baby formula, plus the building is safe from any walkers.
She only met Clem for a couple of weeks and she already did more than Kenny would ever do. She did more to the group more than Kenny'd ever done. Infact Kenny always broke the group apart while Jane helped the group. Jane doesn't own anything to the group and she has the right to leave any time she wants but she came back for the group and that makes her family.
Seriously dude? how old are you? 14? Since it seems like you're walking in circles here. no matter what I tell you, you always end up saying the same thing .. over and over. or maybe you are conveniently ignoring it all for your own benefit .. everything to you seems to be speculation, you really can not deduce facts by yourself?
Sick, as in morally disturbing and twisted.
That's all the definition you have to give me on this? based on that, I'll assume you didn't even listened to what Jane tried to tell you, you simply set that was a sick and twisted plan. like Kenny, you never listened to anyone in the group..
Obviously no one had any proof at the time. But once again, that doesn't mean there was not merit in taking a chance. Wellington did end up being what it was claimed to be.
Again. you don't know it...
I really don't care. Kenny got the truck working, he can take it where he pleases.
Thank you. that was all I wanted to hear. Selfishness. and I think that puts an end to our discussion.
Now who made no sense was you haha. in fact, you repeated what I said and then disagreed with what you had mentioned in the first place. y… moreou contradicted yourself ..
No, you simply did not understand what I was trying to tell you, so I elaborated. I'm telling you we were essentially saying the same things. I said Jane was trying to paint him in a bad light, and you somehow assumed this was me saying that Jane was trying to twist reality, even though there is literally no reason to assume that at all. I'm just telling you that Jane put him in a bad situation. Its very simple.. there was no contradiction at all. You're trying to apply your own meaning to my words. I'm telling you what I meant. Just leave it at that.
You actually played this game? I really need to tell you everything that happened in episodes 3, 4 and 5?? the facts are there for you to analyze and play countless times if you want...
Obviously you don't ne… [view original content]
The thing is, that if you stay at Wellington, he leaves with absolutely nothing but a bag of supplies that could last weeks. Not even his damn hat. Like he said
"You don't just end it cause it's hard. You stick it out, and you help the folks you care about."
I thought he was gonna be pretty lonely and commit suicide but then I thought this. Just something to think about.
Not wanting someone to die because you feel like life wouldn't be worth living if they did is selfish? Everybody in that world needs somethi… moreng to hold onto, to give them hope to get through the day. Kenny had the baby and Clem, Lee had Clem, Clem had the baby. That's how people maintain some small shred of humanity despite all the horrific, brutal things they face. It's not selfish to want to protect the only person left in the world you have an emotional connection to. It's human.
how could Jane explain it when she just said: ''It was an accident'' and Kenny immediately said: ''BULLSHIT'', he didn't even let her talk, at all.
Replay the scene and count all the occassions where they are silently watching each other. Jane just needs to open her mouth. There is no need to pretend, that she couldn't have defused the situation.
Are you fucking kidding me, how could Jane explain it when she just said: ''It was an accident'' and Kenny immediately said: ''BULLSHIT'', he didn't even let her talk, at all.
Jane:
* She got them out of Carvers lair, you all know how bad that place is and if they stayed any longer Carver could've killed anoth… moreer member, raped, tortured? So she basically saved some lives here
* She killed Troy while he had the group at gunpoint. Nobody else had a gun... Also she was smart enough to make Troy a dinnerbell ( Distraction ) to make their escape easier.
* She saved Rebecca and Clementine from the herd.
* She saved Sarah and Luke from the trailer park, nobody else would've gone out looking for them. She did wanna save Sarah but she knew Sarah wasn't gonna make it. Also when Clementine tries to get Sarah out she tells Clementine to come out because if she stays any longer she could've died with Sarah (She saves Clem 3 times now)
* She found the observation deck which saved a couple lives
* She protected Clem from Arvo, what if Jane wasn't there and Arvo saw Clem? Who knows what would've happend then.
… [view original content]
No... Kenny and Clem are. Kenny lashes out at people who disagree with him. He lashed out Arvo for being there! How long before its Clem he's taking his anger out on?
You guys are missing the whole point of the episode, or even the entire series for that matter. That moment in the RV is when the whole seas… moreon came together for me, that's when I figured it out. I'll quote Lee Everett here.
"Part of growing up is doing what's best for people you care about... Even if it means hurting someone else."
It's all about the choices you make, attempt to make, or are forced to make. You gotta do what you think is best, and I don't care who you are, you're going to fuck up royally at LEAST once, and at great costs. You can only do so much, you can only do what you think is best for those you care about the most, for those that you've got left. The thing is you have to realize that goes for everybody, the player isn't the only one making tough choices.
I blame neither Jane nor Kenny, or anyone else for that matter throughout the entire series. These people have been through unspeakable, dark shit, things that w… [view original content]
Slight flaw in your argument: Jane will let you go if you don't want to be with her. You can leave her after the fight (if you shoot Kenny). She never demands that you stay by her side. She just wants you away from Kenny. Not to keep you to herself, but to keep you safe from him.
But she's not doing it for the benefit of Clem. She's doing it for the benefit of herself. Kenny has Clem and AJ's best interest in minds an… mored offers to leave Clem and AJ at wellington for their safety. Jane wouldn't do that because she wants/needs to be with Clem to survive mentally.
I chose Kenny because for me staying at Wellington is the best ending. Kenny has been losing his mind throughout the series (and being an asshole). If you didn't shoot him, you'll get the ending where he'll show you the real side of him. He's willing to risk himself for the safety of the baby and Clem, even though both of them are the only thing keeping him alive and going.
As for Jane, sure she wanted to prove a point, but I can never shoot a family. You can argue with your family, but you can never kill them... unless they turned to a walker
Comments
I've made my arguments. We'd be repeating ourselves at this point.
K
Jane didn't even attempt to try to calm down and rationalize Kenny, she just kept saying, I won't back down, after Kenny was just pacing around and not doing anything to her, she was looking for a fight. Belan admits that Kenny had a fault in the fight as well, I've already argued with that point and in some cases I agree with Belan.
Now who made no sense was you haha. in fact, you repeated what I said and then disagreed with what you had mentioned in the first place. you contradicted yourself ..
You actually played this game? I really need to tell you everything that happened in episodes 3, 4 and 5?? the facts are there for you to analyze and play countless times if you want...
Really??? So you assume that everyone was just "joking" about it? Luke was joking, Jane was joking, Mike was joking, Bonnie was Joking, Rebbeca was joking, Carlos was joking... I'll simply ignore that part of your comment..
They didn't know what they were talking about??? ok, next topic..
I think the fact that the group have split because of Kenny is proof enough of that. I'll ask again. you actually played the game?
I have nothing more to say about it. I've made clear my opnion, and I will not re-write everything again.
Of course this was not a completely pointless choice. but at the same time. there was a considerable chance that this was nothing but a story, a rumor. at any time you really don't doubted that Kenny was dragging you to a dead end? Fortunately Wellington really existed in fact. but what if the rumors were false? it ever crossed your mind??
Sick plan?? explain to me in what sense this plan is sick? I want to understand your concept of "sick".
You talk like you know Wellington from head to toe .. you have no proof that the place is really all that everyone claims to be. how can you call it a "reward" if you have no idea what you'll find.. it is simply a poor and empty way of seeing things.
Oh.. yes.. and like him, the opinion of others doesn't interest to you doesn't it? all that matters is what you think is right. good job on that..
I'm sorry if you didn't understand my comment. I even copied the line of dialogue from the game to you, I really can not be more clear than that...
I'm not talking about Jane's plan, or if she figured it all out.
I'm asking how you'd feel if AJ didn't start to cry, and was then incidentally left to die alone in the car because he wouldn't have been found. With that concept in mind, what would your thoughts be regarding whether or not it was worth Jane hiding AJ just so Kenny could snap in front of Clem?
Well I doubt we'd ever find out. We'd just assume she did accidentally get the baby killed. In my game she survived and I figured she was about to tell me the truth but the baby started wailing.
Of course I could see how unhinged Kenny was getting long before this happened. Her trick was even more pointless but the game forced you to side with Kenny until then. It was stupid.
We won't ever find out. It's not a reality, but a hypothesis. It's not grounded by anything observable.
If Jane hid AJ before getting killed by Kenny, and AJ was never found by Clem afterwards, then what does that make Jane, given the context of her plan?
Bonnie is too.
Shelfisshhhness everywhereeeee!
And I suppose Kenny's 'plans' were better?
No, you simply did not understand what I was trying to tell you, so I elaborated. I'm telling you we were essentially saying the same things. I said Jane was trying to paint him in a bad light, and you somehow assumed this was me saying that Jane was trying to twist reality, even though there is literally no reason to assume that at all. I'm just telling you that Jane put him in a bad situation. Its very simple.. there was no contradiction at all. You're trying to apply your own meaning to my words. I'm telling you what I meant. Just leave it at that.
Obviously you don't need to tell me everything that happened in the episodes. You only need to do enough to actually provide evidence at to what you're trying to prove. Its kind of pointless otherwise.
Really. Now you're assuming that I'm trying to say people were joking? Like.. what? I feel like I'm wasting my time here. There is literally no reason to assume these things.
I simply think you were exaggerating, or can't correctly remember what happened. Carlos, Luke, and Rebecca were only ever concerned about Kenny being reckless. Luke only mentions it once, and he only talks about the possibility of it because of Kenny's depression. Mike, Bonnie, and Jane were only ever concerned about how Kenny treated Arvo. That's it. They were also a little concerned when Kenny took out some steam on a dead walker.. but that is pretty minor. The only instance of Kenny exploding on someone or going "nuclear" was the whole Arvo situation.
They didn't. They had no way of knowing if Kenny's plan was suicidal or not. They were just speculating that it would fail without even giving it a chance. That is all I am saying.
No, this isn't proof in the slightest. We don't know that they wanted to leave Kenny because they were personally afraid that he would attack them. There is no indication of that at all. Like everything else, you are completely speculating... which is fine, but don't try and pass it off as fact when you're only guessing.
So in other words you're going to completely ignore my my opinion disregard all my points just because you have a separate opinion. Gotcha.
I didn't care if the place ended up being real or not. That doesn't mean it isn't worth searching for. Kenny even admits the same opinion. Its not a death sentence if you go up there and can't manage to find it. It is very arguable that it is worth taking a shot.
Sick, as in morally disturbing and twisted.
Obviously no one had any proof at the time. But once again, that doesn't mean there was not merit in taking a chance. Wellington did end up being what it was claimed to be. Just because something may not exist does not mean that it is stupid to go looking for it. Kenny (and myself) decided it was worth the risk. Even if Wellington turned out not to be legit they always could have given up and gone back. You're acting like going up there is almost a death sentence unless they find Wellington. Obviously there would be other people living up north and probably managing just fine. Its not just a giant death trap because its cold outside (I live in a place colder than Wellington, I know what it is like).
I really don't care. Kenny got the truck working, he can take it where he pleases. Maybe if Mike and Bonnie didn't ditch the group there would have been a discussion to be had.
Nowhere in the comment you provided did Kenny say he would rather freeze to death rather than accept someone else's idea.
"Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead fingers".
Are you honestly telling me that he would rather freeze to death just because he used the world "cold" in the expression? Please tell me no. Its just an expression. You're not supposed to take it literally. The word cold is always used in that expression, in terms of a body being cold because its dead.
Lol these jane fans are fucked.
I think you need to rewatch the end of episode 4 and the beginning of episode 5, because Arvo and his crew want to rob Clems group and they are willing to shoot everybody. Do you remember when Arvo said that his sister desperately needs the medicine? You know the meds that he was trying to hide in the garbage can. He then tricks his own group by telling them that somebody stole the meds from him. He even lies to his own "beloved" sister when she asks him if those are the people that supposedly robbed him. At that point the only person he actually met before, is Clementine. He didn't meet with Luke, Bonnie, Mike, Kenny or Rebecca. But he still replies with:
Да, это они. pronounced "Dah, ett-tah ah-nee (Yes, it's them.) "они" is the third person plural, so he tells them that the group stole from him and not a single person.
The whole group could have gotten killed, because of his scheme. Just something to consider before evaluating poor little Arvos character.
Does Jane manipulate Kenny or does Kenny manipulate Jane? The one who does the manipulation is at fault, it is that simple.
So you're in an abusive relationship and its totally your fault for manipulating your spouse into abusing you?
Yeah good luck with that.
I wish I could give you all the internets. You are my hero!
Look, it may be true that Jane is trying to replace her sister with Clementine, but do you realise that Kenny lost his son, Duck, and he is trying to replace him with Clementine ?
Are you fucking kidding me, how could Jane explain it when she just said: ''It was an accident'' and Kenny immediately said: ''BULLSHIT'', he didn't even let her talk, at all.
Actually he puts Clem and AJ in danger always when he is aggressive, what is 70 percent of his life probably nowadays probably.
Actually no he never listens to the group, for example when he started the truck, EVERYONE disagreed to go to Wellington, he was like ''I started the truck, we are going to Wellington(IDGAF what u think I'm the boss here)'' so yeah, he really cares what the group thinks, seriously.
I think you might be right about Kenny. In his moments of self-clarity I do think he realises this.
However I think Jane is slightly different. I think Jane doesn't want to turn Clem in to her. At first this is what she's thinking, but as Clem reminds her of her sister, Jane slowly begins to - once again - be able to open up to people and actually bond with them. The way I see it, at the end of season 2 there's room for Jane's character to progress in a positive direction; more trusting and stronger for it. There's only room for Kenny's character to change in a negative direction; more anger, less control - making himself and his surroundings less safe.
Double-comment for the win!
Shut up you idiot!!!! :P
So did I.
Jane:
She got them out of Carvers lair, you all know how bad that place is and if they stayed any longer Carver could've killed another member, raped, tortured? So she basically saved some lives here
She killed Troy while he had the group at gunpoint. Nobody else had a gun... Also she was smart enough to make Troy a dinnerbell ( Distraction ) to make their escape easier.
She saved Rebecca and Clementine from the herd.
She saved Sarah and Luke from the trailer park, nobody else would've gone out looking for them. She did wanna save Sarah but she knew Sarah wasn't gonna make it. Also when Clementine tries to get Sarah out she tells Clementine to come out because if she stays any longer she could've died with Sarah (She saves Clem 3 times now)
She found the observation deck which saved a couple lives
She protected Clem from Arvo, what if Jane wasn't there and Arvo saw Clem? Who knows what would've happend then.
She teaches Clem new survival skills
She gives Clem a nail file which saves her life in ep 5
She cares for the group to steal meds from some random guy who has a sick sister
She saves Kenny and the group from Vitali
She saves Clementine when she is about to freeze to death. She risks her life to save Clem, she ran on the ice lake which could've broke any minute. She made the fire for Clem and got her warm with HER NAIL FILE/MATCHES.
She saves Clem from Mike and Bonnie and Arvo ( Sure Kenny helped but if only Kenny was there they wouldve overpowered Kenny and stole the truck )
She takes care of the baby 2 times
She tries to do the best for Clem by revealing who Kenny really is and what he would if the baby died
If you let her live she will take you to Howes and you will find food and baby formula, plus the building is safe from any walkers.
She only met Clem for a couple of weeks and she already did more than Kenny would ever do. She did more to the group more than Kenny'd ever done. Infact Kenny always broke the group apart while Jane helped the group. Jane doesn't own anything to the group and she has the right to leave any time she wants but she came back for the group and that makes her family.
Jane is better than Kenny, end of story.
Seriously dude? how old are you? 14? Since it seems like you're walking in circles here. no matter what I tell you, you always end up saying the same thing .. over and over. or maybe you are conveniently ignoring it all for your own benefit .. everything to you seems to be speculation, you really can not deduce facts by yourself?
That's all the definition you have to give me on this? based on that, I'll assume you didn't even listened to what Jane tried to tell you, you simply set that was a sick and twisted plan. like Kenny, you never listened to anyone in the group..
Again. you don't know it...
Thank you. that was all I wanted to hear. Selfishness. and I think that puts an end to our discussion.
Have a nice day.
I deserved that. I manipulated you into insulting me :P
The thing is, that if you stay at Wellington, he leaves with absolutely nothing but a bag of supplies that could last weeks. Not even his damn hat. Like he said
I thought he was gonna be pretty lonely and commit suicide but then I thought this. Just something to think about.
That's not an explanation. It's a vague claim.
Replay the scene and count all the occassions where they are silently watching each other. Jane just needs to open her mouth. There is no need to pretend, that she couldn't have defused the situation.
Are Kenny and Jane in an abusive relationship? No. Your comparison fails to be analogous.
protected Clem from Arvo?
''I'm going to go! I don't want to shoot,i don't want to shoot anyone, especially a little girl''
Okay tell me what Clem would've done by herself, he obviously wouldn't let her just go.
and why Arvo wouldn't let Clem go?
No... Kenny and Clem are. Kenny lashes out at people who disagree with him. He lashed out Arvo for being there! How long before its Clem he's taking his anger out on?
Trick question. He already did when Sarita died.
Because she might alert her group of him or kill him while he walks away.
And then you did exactly that...
Slight flaw in your argument: Jane will let you go if you don't want to be with her. You can leave her after the fight (if you shoot Kenny). She never demands that you stay by her side. She just wants you away from Kenny. Not to keep you to herself, but to keep you safe from him.
I chose Kenny because for me staying at Wellington is the best ending. Kenny has been losing his mind throughout the series (and being an asshole). If you didn't shoot him, you'll get the ending where he'll show you the real side of him. He's willing to risk himself for the safety of the baby and Clem, even though both of them are the only thing keeping him alive and going.
As for Jane, sure she wanted to prove a point, but I can never shoot a family. You can argue with your family, but you can never kill them... unless they turned to a walker
Lobster claws and snake tongue...