Telltale must have a blast reading those threads
None of the endings is better than the other ones. You got the ending you choose and if… more you don't like it choose a different one. But there is no reason to tell people they're stupid for liking or accepting the ending they received because they see the whole situation in a different light. I mean that is what the whole series is about. None of the choices are black and white and that is why its interesting.
And? Kenny couldnt do this alone either. Clem and AJ was everything he had. What Jane did was stupid, but it's still not excuse for killing a person. I dont gave anyone the right to kill someone just because u are mad at her
If you leave Jane after shooting Kenny she says "I can't do this alone...okay? Is that what you want to hear?" It was always about Jane wanting Clem with her for Jane's sake.
Sorry but you're wrong. Janes whole mantra is to not get attached to people. . .it has never been anything about trust. She came back for th… moree group, so clearly she isn't selfish. She SAVED Kenny. Key point there.
Jane was right. She didn't trick anyone or manipulate anyone lol. She literally proved us completely right at how angry Kenny got. You say Kenny cared about both Clem and the baby? How on earth can you say that. Kenny cared a helluva lot more about the baby then Clem. Get your facts straight and then we can continue this argument.
Oh yeah, Kenny was SUCH A MONSTER in the endings where you get with him to Wellington...
Yeah, indeed.
"If she had said he was safe I'd stopped. Geez, Clementine, I didn't want to do that but... but..." "Take the kid and the baby, you can make room for them. Please, I need to know they will be safe." "Go Clem, go to a place where you can be kid for a while... you don't want to sleep with a gun next to you every day. A place where you and AJ will be safe."
100% Carverish. Totally.
He's so Carverish Carver isn't so Carverish after comparing him and Carver in terms on who's more like Carver in terms of Carverism.
Whatever you think of her, she didn't deserve to be murdered and Kenny doesn't deserve to become the next Lily/Carver/Governor. Only you can save Kenny and Jane.
Do what Kenny wants, stop him from killing Jane and becoming a monster.
You forget one thing about Jane. Jane doesn't stop the fight, when she has Kenny on the ground. Even at the end, when Kenny is about to stab her, Jane does not reveal that AJ is still alive, she rather calls for Clem to kill Kenny.
Jane escalates the situation that is her intention right from the start. What Jane apologists forget is, that Kenny would not have snapped, if she didn't pull of her stunt. And those who say that Jane merely showed Kennys true colours, don't know what would have happened, if Jane had not done what she did. Kenny might as well have recovered from his psychological trauma over time.
That was poor planning, not lack of caring. It didn't occur to her that Kenny would actually kill her. if she didn't care for the baby and only cares about being with Clem, then she could have just actually ditched it rather than doing what she did.
he came back for the group, so clearly she isn't selfish.
She didn't really come back for the group though. She came back because she decided she liked Clem too much to leave her. She admits as much.
Jane was right. She didn't trick anyone or manipulate anyone lol
There really isn't even any possible way to dispute that she didn't manipulate anyone. She completely set up Kenny. Obviously the baby wasn't actually dead. The whole point of what she was doing was to enrage Kenny with a false story about his adopted baby being dead.
Manipulate:
"To manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner: to manipulate people's feelings."
"To adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one's purpose or advantage."
Yeah. She manipulated both Kenny and Clem.
She literally proved us completely right at how angry Kenny got.
She didn't prove anything of substance really. She proved that a grieving, broken man will get angry if you pretend to have killed his child. Whoa, good one Jane. Would never have guessed that one. There is also a massive difference between Jane saying she got the baby killed and Clem saying she got the baby killed. Kenny wouldn't think Clem just outright murdered a baby. He only thought that of Jane based on who she was as a person + the fact that she was acting intentionally shady.
You say Kenny cared about both Clem and the baby? How on earth can you say that. Kenny cared a helluva lot more about the baby then Clem.
What are you basing that on? The fact that he flew into a fury when he thought the baby was dead? You can't say that he would not have done the same thing if he had ever thought that Jane had killed Clem.
Sorry but you're wrong. Janes whole mantra is to not get attached to people. . .it has never been anything about trust. She came back for th… moree group, so clearly she isn't selfish. She SAVED Kenny. Key point there.
Jane was right. She didn't trick anyone or manipulate anyone lol. She literally proved us completely right at how angry Kenny got. You say Kenny cared about both Clem and the baby? How on earth can you say that. Kenny cared a helluva lot more about the baby then Clem. Get your facts straight and then we can continue this argument.
I seriously doubt if he had been treated with dignity and kindness by the group, he would have done that.
If we had been treated as a human, when we go up to speak to him he would be willing to listen. As it is, he shouts at everyone who tries to talk to him because of the abuse he faced.
If he hadn't been physically abused, he would be open to us and most likely we could have explained what happened to his sister.
As it is, he's been put in the frame of mind that he HAS to fight to survive as a result of being beaten. And that twisted his mind into shooting Clem.
That fourth example is garbage. The reason Clem was shot was because Clem killed Arvo's sister. Arvo didn't see his sister turn so he thought Clem just murdered her.
But its totally okay for Jane to try and kill Kenny when at any time she could have just told him the baby was still alive? Pushing her agenda was really worth killing someone? That's just terrible.
I would like to point out a possibility in Jane's plan. Something I don't think she thought about, and something that is greatly overlooked here.
What if AJ didn't start crying, and Jane died in the confrontation? She was the only one that knew where AJ was, and it seemed to me that Kenny and Clem both had the firm belief that the baby was dead. Would AJ have froze/starved to death if he didn't start crying?
In this case, if AJ didn't start crying, and they never found him, would this be Jane's fault for hiding him? I mean, you can't blame Kenny and Clem for simply not finding him. In this hypothetical situation, would Jane have killed AJ?
You are right. But it's not just that, what if AJ had started crying while the two were in the building? AJ could have attracted walkers nearby and then they might not have been able to get back to him. Jane endangered the baby in order to get Kenny angry. What she did was totally irresponsible.
I would like to point out a possibility in Jane's plan. Something I don't think she thought about, and something that is greatly overlooked … morehere.
What if AJ didn't start crying, and Jane died in the confrontation? She was the only one that knew where AJ was, and it seemed to me that Kenny and Clem both had the firm belief that the baby was dead. Would AJ have froze/starved to death if he didn't start crying?
In this case, if AJ didn't start crying, and they never found him, would this be Jane's fault for hiding him? I mean, you can't blame Kenny and Clem for simply not finding him. In this hypothetical situation, would Jane have killed AJ?
Highly agree, both Jane endings in my opinion are stale and Clementine doesn't seem the same...as where the Kenny endings are heartwarming, enough to make you tear up, and you learn how much he really cares.
But I also agree with Flog61 that the explosive behavior of the Kenny turned things to be completely chaotic and contributed to what Arvo did. Luke was the only thing keeping the group together. after he died. everything fell apart in the blink of an eye..
That fourth example is garbage. The reason Clem was shot was because Clem killed Arvo's sister. Arvo didn't see his sister turn so he thought Clem just murdered her.
What? Kenny might have had the best interest of the group in mind, but he wouldn't hear any other suggestion than what he decided on his own… more. He pushed everyone away, except maybe Clem but he wasn't far from that. His actions teared the group apart, because he was selfish.
Kenny only realized how broken he was, after he killed Jane.
Yes he made a selfless act at Wellington but that is still based around the fact that he failed to project his family so he needs make up for that at least in his own head.
Bottom line I'm not saying kenny is a bad person but he is a selfish one.
Maybe not for you, but I guarantee tons of people were tricked into shooting him. Because of the way the scene was set up. Kenny attacks fir… morest and Kenny gets the upper hand in the end. Making Jane look like the victim and Kenny the villain. Which isn't the case because it was Jane's fault. She wanted Kenny out of the picture and tried to turn Clem against Kenny all because she wants Clem to herself.
There was no manipulation whatsoever. I just happened to agree with everything she was saying about Kenny.
If you're going to say that pe… moreople were tricked into siding with Jane, then I'm going to say that people only sided with Kenny because they were intimidated by him into doing so.
And? It's everything that defines the motivations of her character. This is a thread for dissecting Jane's character. I'm not devolving to Kenny vs. Jane bullshit.
And? Kenny couldnt do this alone either. Clem and AJ was everything he had. What Jane did was stupid, but it's still not excuse for killing a person. I dont gave anyone the right to kill someone just because u are mad at her
Do you really think that Kenny would stop? no matter what Jane would say, he would try to kill her anyway. because in his head, Jane had already killed the baby, he automatically reached this conclusion without even discussing the matter.. the man was lost!
But its totally okay for Jane to try and kill Kenny when at any time she could have just told him the baby was still alive? Pushing her agenda was really worth killing someone? That's just terrible.
The baby was not my top priority. The entire group voted to go south and Kenny told me I was embarrassing him.. still surprised we went north. Kenny singlehandedly tore apart a very beautiful group with his stubbornness and selfishness. You know you fucked up when even Mike wants to get away from you. lol
Jane didn't want to fight at first but then it got out of hand.
No, Janes plan is to start a fight right from the start. If she didn't want to fight, then she would not have hid AJ in the first place.
Jane can be a selfish cunt, but her and Kenny combined are the main reasons the group broke apart in season 2.
That's why I prefer to have them both dead and the all alone ending.
You know there is an theory that Ellie's operation was never going to work and that Ellie died for nothing, i think that's what Joel was afraid of, and he didn't want to risk it, though it is a theory, but a compelling one, in my eyes
Wait, are you the same guy who opened this thread all about respect and not deliberately stirring up tensions, or is there another Flog61 ?
Cause posing as the forum's "Mr Respect" with a fancy thread while making such stupid generalizations about Kenny fans on other threads, now that would be pretty hypocritical.
Arvo gives constant death glares to clementine, no matter how nice you were to him. I don't recall him giving glares to anyone else besides Kenny. Does that not say something?
Also, Clem can be the one to rob Arvo as well, which gives him more incentive to shoot Clementine in revenge.
I seriously doubt if he had been treated with dignity and kindness by the group, he would have done that.
If we had been treated as a hum… morean, when we go up to speak to him he would be willing to listen. As it is, he shouts at everyone who tries to talk to him because of the abuse he faced.
If he hadn't been physically abused, he would be open to us and most likely we could have explained what happened to his sister.
As it is, he's been put in the frame of mind that he HAS to fight to survive as a result of being beaten. And that twisted his mind into shooting Clem.
The entire point of Jane's plan was to start a fight. How else did she plan on proving to Clem that Kenny was too dangerous to have around? Obviously if all he did was yell at Jane that would not have proven anything, and Jane would have been kicked out of the group for pulling the stunt.
He wasn't trying to kill Jane until she tried to kill him. Regardless, Jane had a perfect opportunity to end the fight when Kenny ran away outside. He wasn't even trying to fight her when he first went out there. Jane sprinted out after him with her knife and made it clear that she was going to kill him. All the while he was just backing away. She then tried to stab and slash him.. even though he wasn't even fighting her. Instead of trying to kill him, she could have explained that the baby was still alive.
Do you really think that Kenny would stop? no matter what Jane would say, he would try to kill her anyway. because in his head, Jane had alr… moreeady killed the baby, he automatically reached this conclusion without even discussing the matter.. the man was lost!
Well the stealing is dependent on your choice but yes she threatens him which she instantly regrets and says "what am I doing holding a gun to a kid's head" or something along those lines to Clem.
Secondly Arvo was stealing from his group even without Jane and Clem.
if all he did was yell at Jane that would not have proven anything, and Jane would have been kicked out of the group for the pulling the stunt.
Exactly, if he would've taken the moment to analyze the situation instead of trying to murder Jane, Kenny would've won me AND a lot of other people over.
The entire point of Jane's plan was to start a fight. How else did she plan on proving to Clem that Kenny was too dangerous to have around? … moreObviously if all he did was yell at Jane that would not have proven anything, and Jane would have been kicked out of the group for pulling the stunt.
That fourth example is garbage. The reason Clem was shot was because Clem killed Arvo's sister. Arvo didn't see his sister turn so he thought Clem just murdered her.
Comments
But it's so stupid...and mean
And? Kenny couldnt do this alone either. Clem and AJ was everything he had. What Jane did was stupid, but it's still not excuse for killing a person. I dont gave anyone the right to kill someone just because u are mad at her
I agree...and even IF it was stupid, it dont give u the rigth to kill a person
Oh yeah, Kenny was SUCH A MONSTER in the endings where you get with him to Wellington...
Yeah, indeed.
"If she had said he was safe I'd stopped. Geez, Clementine, I didn't want to do that but... but..." "Take the kid and the baby, you can make room for them. Please, I need to know they will be safe." "Go Clem, go to a place where you can be kid for a while... you don't want to sleep with a gun next to you every day. A place where you and AJ will be safe."
100% Carverish. Totally.
He's so Carverish Carver isn't so Carverish after comparing him and Carver in terms on who's more like Carver in terms of Carverism.
You forget one thing about Jane. Jane doesn't stop the fight, when she has Kenny on the ground. Even at the end, when Kenny is about to stab her, Jane does not reveal that AJ is still alive, she rather calls for Clem to kill Kenny.
Jane escalates the situation that is her intention right from the start. What Jane apologists forget is, that Kenny would not have snapped, if she didn't pull of her stunt. And those who say that Jane merely showed Kennys true colours, don't know what would have happened, if Jane had not done what she did. Kenny might as well have recovered from his psychological trauma over time.
Oh, but it gives the right to Clem to kill a person.
She didn't really come back for the group though. She came back because she decided she liked Clem too much to leave her. She admits as much.
There really isn't even any possible way to dispute that she didn't manipulate anyone. She completely set up Kenny. Obviously the baby wasn't actually dead. The whole point of what she was doing was to enrage Kenny with a false story about his adopted baby being dead.
Manipulate:
Yeah. She manipulated both Kenny and Clem.
She didn't prove anything of substance really. She proved that a grieving, broken man will get angry if you pretend to have killed his child. Whoa, good one Jane. Would never have guessed that one. There is also a massive difference between Jane saying she got the baby killed and Clem saying she got the baby killed. Kenny wouldn't think Clem just outright murdered a baby. He only thought that of Jane based on who she was as a person + the fact that she was acting intentionally shady.
What are you basing that on? The fact that he flew into a fury when he thought the baby was dead? You can't say that he would not have done the same thing if he had ever thought that Jane had killed Clem.
I seriously doubt if he had been treated with dignity and kindness by the group, he would have done that.
If we had been treated as a human, when we go up to speak to him he would be willing to listen. As it is, he shouts at everyone who tries to talk to him because of the abuse he faced.
If he hadn't been physically abused, he would be open to us and most likely we could have explained what happened to his sister.
As it is, he's been put in the frame of mind that he HAS to fight to survive as a result of being beaten. And that twisted his mind into shooting Clem.
But its totally okay for Jane to try and kill Kenny when at any time she could have just told him the baby was still alive? Pushing her agenda was really worth killing someone? That's just terrible.
I would like to point out a possibility in Jane's plan. Something I don't think she thought about, and something that is greatly overlooked here.
What if AJ didn't start crying, and Jane died in the confrontation? She was the only one that knew where AJ was, and it seemed to me that Kenny and Clem both had the firm belief that the baby was dead. Would AJ have froze/starved to death if he didn't start crying?
In this case, if AJ didn't start crying, and they never found him, would this be Jane's fault for hiding him? I mean, you can't blame Kenny and Clem for simply not finding him. In this hypothetical situation, would Jane have killed AJ?
You are right. But it's not just that, what if AJ had started crying while the two were in the building? AJ could have attracted walkers nearby and then they might not have been able to get back to him. Jane endangered the baby in order to get Kenny angry. What she did was totally irresponsible.
Both are crazy and selfish. Would Kenny even give a damn anymore if the baby did die? Jane didn't want to fight at first but then it got out of hand.
No, Janes plan is to start a fight right from the start. If she didn't want to fight, then she would not have hid AJ in the first place.
Highly agree, both Jane endings in my opinion are stale and Clementine doesn't seem the same...as where the Kenny endings are heartwarming, enough to make you tear up, and you learn how much he really cares.
Good point.
But I also agree with Flog61 that the explosive behavior of the Kenny turned things to be completely chaotic and contributed to what Arvo did. Luke was the only thing keeping the group together. after he died. everything fell apart in the blink of an eye..
Well spoken.
Hahaha!
Now you're going to blame the Telltale producers? please...
I agree with you!
Clem is not a puppy. she can think and act on her own. and make her own decisions.
Jane is trying to turn Clem into her. Whereas Kenny is trying to stop Clem from becoming him. At least that's the way I see it :P.
And? It's everything that defines the motivations of her character. This is a thread for dissecting Jane's character. I'm not devolving to Kenny vs. Jane bullshit.
Do you really think that Kenny would stop? no matter what Jane would say, he would try to kill her anyway. because in his head, Jane had already killed the baby, he automatically reached this conclusion without even discussing the matter.. the man was lost!
The baby was not my top priority. The entire group voted to go south and Kenny told me I was embarrassing him.. still surprised we went north. Kenny singlehandedly tore apart a very beautiful group with his stubbornness and selfishness. You know you fucked up when even Mike wants to get away from you. lol
Now someone who doesn't have the capability of analyzing a situation would say exactly just that.
The producers themselves told their own respective endings in a interview with Greg Miller at IGN. and they all ended up alone with AJ.
There is no "right" end. all endings are beautiful in their own way. but unfortunately many people tend to think that their ending is the better end..
Jane can be a selfish cunt, but her and Kenny combined are the main reasons the group broke apart in season 2.
That's why I prefer to have them both dead and the all alone ending.
Jane broke the group apart? How? I didn't see her beating up Arvo..
You know there is an theory that Ellie's operation was never going to work and that Ellie died for nothing, i think that's what Joel was afraid of, and he didn't want to risk it, though it is a theory, but a compelling one, in my eyes
Wait, are you the same guy who opened this thread all about respect and not deliberately stirring up tensions, or is there another Flog61 ?
Cause posing as the forum's "Mr Respect" with a fancy thread while making such stupid generalizations about Kenny fans on other threads, now that would be pretty hypocritical.
BTW, replied two days ago in http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/81879 and still waiting for an answer.
Arvo gives constant death glares to clementine, no matter how nice you were to him. I don't recall him giving glares to anyone else besides Kenny. Does that not say something?
Also, Clem can be the one to rob Arvo as well, which gives him more incentive to shoot Clementine in revenge.
Jane and everybody except Kenny and MAYBE Clem(depending on your choices) were on the same page regarding goals of the group.
The entire point of Jane's plan was to start a fight. How else did she plan on proving to Clem that Kenny was too dangerous to have around? Obviously if all he did was yell at Jane that would not have proven anything, and Jane would have been kicked out of the group for pulling the stunt.
She did rob and threaten him though, which caused the shootout between Arvo and Clem's group.
I'm gonna pretend that I didn't see the comment that Kenny isn't selfish
He wasn't trying to kill Jane until she tried to kill him. Regardless, Jane had a perfect opportunity to end the fight when Kenny ran away outside. He wasn't even trying to fight her when he first went out there. Jane sprinted out after him with her knife and made it clear that she was going to kill him. All the while he was just backing away. She then tried to stab and slash him.. even though he wasn't even fighting her. Instead of trying to kill him, she could have explained that the baby was still alive.
Well the stealing is dependent on your choice but yes she threatens him which she instantly regrets and says "what am I doing holding a gun to a kid's head" or something along those lines to Clem.
Secondly Arvo was stealing from his group even without Jane and Clem.
And that only got Arvo's group killed. Also, that was Arvo's fault.
He walked away with his bag of supplies. Not sure why he wanted to be confrontational
if all he did was yell at Jane that would not have proven anything, and Jane would have been kicked out of the group for the pulling the stunt.
Exactly, if he would've taken the moment to analyze the situation instead of trying to murder Jane, Kenny would've won me AND a lot of other people over.
Oh, and that doesn't invalidate the three already existing examples anyway.
Kenny's not? If you disagree with him at all he leaves you to die in 103. He also disregards everyone else opinion