Lee can care about Clem all he wants, but Christa did the same thing not only for longer, but while going through a (failed) pregnancy and l… moreosing her husband.
You know what Michonne went through, think about going through that while raising someone like Clem.
Christa is the real MVP
It depends on how you define "caretaker". Alvin would have been a better father figure in a normal world. Pete and Walter probably had more to offer, but that is about it. All 3 lacked survivor skills(what it takes to make it in TWD universe). As we saw, they can maintain when things are going well, but they are useless when stuff hits the fan. Lee offered the perfect balance of caring, and understanding what is needed to survive in that type of world
Now let's remember what happened to Alvin and Walter. Plot happened. Aka Carver happened.
Do you think we really understand the extent of their survival skills? Mostly Walter, because we were with Alvin for a bit and know a bit more about him.
And cmon, I think Pete is a better survivor then not only Lee, but a whole lot of TWD people. He's not only good at doing what needs to be done, he also recognizes that it isn't right. Just like Lee can (if you choose).
Alvin probably doesn't have the skills, but we barely have Walter a chance. And even when you tell the truth about Nick, he does what's needed to be done once again. And it hurts him. Just like it hurt my Lee.
I think we don't realize that we got attached to Lee. That plays a big role in whether we see them for who they are or not. Lee was great, but Pete and Walter could've been just as great, if not greater
It depends on how you define "caretaker". Alvin would have been a better father figure in a normal world. Pete and Walter probably had more … moreto offer, but that is about it. All 3 lacked survivor skills(what it takes to make it in TWD universe). As we saw, they can maintain when things are going well, but they are useless when stuff hits the fan. Lee offered the perfect balance of caring, and understanding what is needed to survive in that type of world
We can't form opinions on "what ifs". All we have to go on is what we witnessed and piece clues from there. Walter and Alvin were great people and idea role models, but they were weak. They were pampered by a nice group with a safe living arrangement(whom neither of which lead). From what we could see of them, neither had what it takes to survive outside of those circumstances. In fact, Clem herself had better survivor skills than those two. The only thing she would have needed them for is companionship. Other than that, they would have been dead weight.
When it comes to Pete, in what way is he better at surviving than Lee??? He trust too easily; which is bad, and his method is reckless. Staying at sea away from people and walkers is pointless when you have to constantly go back for food, water, and repairs. And as we can see, when a crisis comes, he is of no use. Do you think he would have survived without Michonne??? Sam and Paige would be better caretakers than Pete. Not to mention that he is at the mercy of other people. Though managing that boat alone is not impossible, it is improbable.
Lee was more versatile. He could survive on his own or with a crew. He was compassionate, but not too trusting. He was capable of doing the right thing and capable of doing what ever needed to be done. Based on what he have seen; could we say the same about Pete, Alvin or Walter???
Now let's remember what happened to Alvin and Walter. Plot happened. Aka Carver happened.
Do you think we really understand the extent of… more their survival skills? Mostly Walter, because we were with Alvin for a bit and know a bit more about him.
And cmon, I think Pete is a better survivor then not only Lee, but a whole lot of TWD people. He's not only good at doing what needs to be done, he also recognizes that it isn't right. Just like Lee can (if you choose).
Alvin probably doesn't have the skills, but we barely have Walter a chance. And even when you tell the truth about Nick, he does what's needed to be done once again. And it hurts him. Just like it hurt my Lee.
I think we don't realize that we got attached to Lee. That plays a big role in whether we see them for who they are or not. Lee was great, but Pete and Walter could've been just as great, if not greater
Walter was the one in the cabin with Sarita and Kenny right? Does that really count as a weak group? It's not like they didn't almost kill us, if not for Clem coming in to save the day.
And was Kenny really their leader before we came? Kinda felt like he was still unstable so I thought Walter was their leader, him and Sarita combined.
I'll give it to you for Alvin and Pete because we actually had enough time to form an opinion on their abilities. But Walter was a diamond in the rough that was cast away too quickly. If I remember him right, the only thing that made him weak was Carver. Other than that, we coulda survived ages up at the cabin.
We can't form opinions on "what ifs". All we have to go on is what we witnessed and piece clues from there. Walter and Alvin were great peop… morele and idea role models, but they were weak. They were pampered by a nice group with a safe living arrangement(whom neither of which lead). From what we could see of them, neither had what it takes to survive outside of those circumstances. In fact, Clem herself had better survivor skills than those two. The only thing she would have needed them for is companionship. Other than that, they would have been dead weight.
When it comes to Pete, in what way is he better at surviving than Lee??? He trust too easily; which is bad, and his method is reckless. Staying at sea away from people and walkers is pointless when you have to constantly go back for food, water, and repairs. And as we can see, when a crisis comes, he is of no use. Do you think he would have survived without Michonne??? Sam and Paige would… [view original content]
In hindsight, I think Bonnie vs Kenny would make more sense. She was someone new to Clementine but had been around since at least A House Divided, but she's also someone we got to know as early as 400 Days, she's done enough both good and bad that it makes it easier to have her be a conflicting choice than, say, Luke or Jane, it would make sense that someone who was actually in love with Luke took his place if he died and the rest of the cabin group wasn't an option, she does show concern for Clementine enough that she'd be willing to abandon Mike if you try to save Luke, and considering she was a guard at Carver's camp (this would know it better) and would rather fix it than leave it, it makes more sense for her to wanna go back than for Jane to suggest the same thing.
I had another alternate, but I can't think of it at the moment.
My decision would favor Kenny a lot in this case. Bonnie is a junkie, have an intellect lower than Clementine and she's completely misjudging situations which will end up very bad for Clem sooner or later.
However if Bonnie would be different...I would think about it
In hindsight, I think Bonnie vs Kenny would make more sense. She was someone new to Clementine but had been around since at least A House Di… morevided, but she's also someone we got to know as early as 400 Days, she's done enough both good and bad that it makes it easier to have her be a conflicting choice than, say, Luke or Jane, it would make sense that someone who was actually in love with Luke took his place if he died and the rest of the cabin group wasn't an option, she does show concern for Clementine enough that she'd be willing to abandon Mike if you try to save Luke, and considering she was a guard at Carver's camp (this would know it better) and would rather fix it than leave it, it makes more sense for her to wanna go back than for Jane to suggest the same thing.
I had another alternate, but I can't think of it at the moment.
In hindsight, I think Bonnie vs Kenny would make more sense. She was someone new to Clementine but had been around since at least A House Di… morevided, but she's also someone we got to know as early as 400 Days, she's done enough both good and bad that it makes it easier to have her be a conflicting choice than, say, Luke or Jane, it would make sense that someone who was actually in love with Luke took his place if he died and the rest of the cabin group wasn't an option, she does show concern for Clementine enough that she'd be willing to abandon Mike if you try to save Luke, and considering she was a guard at Carver's camp (this would know it better) and would rather fix it than leave it, it makes more sense for her to wanna go back than for Jane to suggest the same thing.
I had another alternate, but I can't think of it at the moment.
We can't form opinions on "what ifs". All we have to go on is what we witnessed and piece clues from there.
I wouldn't take it as "what-ifs," per se, but as things that happened off screen. We know that the cabin group—Carlos, Sarah, Rebecca, Alvin, Luke, Pete, Nick, Nick's mother, and maybe the survivor who bit her—made it all the way from Tenessee to Virginia. That has to tell us something about their skills.
Walter and Alvin were great people and idea role models, but they were weak. They were pampered by a nice group with a safe living arrangement (whom neither of which lead). From what we could see of them, neither had what it takes to survive outside of those circumstances.
Matthew and Walter were in the ski lodge by themselves for more than two years, surviving successfully. I wouldn't really count Matthew himself as a "pampering group."
Alvin, yes, he was pampered by a group, though it was hinted that he is a lot more savage than we know—remember he murdered George in cold blood? Besides, he contributed to moving across more than a few states.
In fact, Clem herself had better survivor skills than those two. The only thing she would have needed them for is companionship. Other than that, they would have been dead weight.
Everybody in the second season was dead weight because Clementine was a superhero.
When it comes to Pete, in what way is he better at surviving than Lee??? He trust too easily; which is bad, and his method is reckless. Staying at sea away (…)
I am pretty sure that @ShaneGrimes referred to uncle Pete, not captain Pete.
Do you think he would have survived without Michonne??? (…)
He did, for more than two years. Pete, Siddiq, Oak, and Berto were actually part of a bigger community called Oceanside.
We can't form opinions on "what ifs". All we have to go on is what we witnessed and piece clues from there. Walter and Alvin were great peop… morele and idea role models, but they were weak. They were pampered by a nice group with a safe living arrangement(whom neither of which lead). From what we could see of them, neither had what it takes to survive outside of those circumstances. In fact, Clem herself had better survivor skills than those two. The only thing she would have needed them for is companionship. Other than that, they would have been dead weight.
When it comes to Pete, in what way is he better at surviving than Lee??? He trust too easily; which is bad, and his method is reckless. Staying at sea away from people and walkers is pointless when you have to constantly go back for food, water, and repairs. And as we can see, when a crisis comes, he is of no use. Do you think he would have survived without Michonne??? Sam and Paige would… [view original content]
I meant the characters leaned on Clementine for everything and wanted her to do everything, Lee and Kenny where the only two who didn't or did it the least, noticed Clem was a child and solved their own problems, Kenny survived on his own after he vanished in S1 without Clem, especially Lee aswell.
How Jane leaned on Clementine? All she did was: Lead Clem & pregnant woman through horde of walkers -> Teach Clem how to survive better -> Run away (to not see more people die) -> Return (because she cares) -> Help Clem from not freezing -> Help Clem when she got shot -> Test Kenny's reaction (from her POV Kenny will blow up and will kill/beat the shit out of whoever he will find to blame. It was Lee+Ben in S1; Arvo+Jane in S2 and it could be Clementine in S3) to prevent something potentially bad hapenning to Clem
I meant the characters leaned on Clementine for everything and wanted her to do everything, Lee and Kenny where the only two who didn't or d… moreid it the least, noticed Clem was a child and solved their own problems, Kenny survived on his own after he vanished in S1 without Clem, especially Lee aswell.
I was Clementine and I didn't learn jack shit from Jane. Maybe I learned what is the exact most stupidest time ever to show someone your better then someone, and maybe not to put a baby in a freezing car to do so, but I can guarantee through my gameplay I learned more from Kenny and Lee than I never learned from Jane. Its my opinion anyways and my gameplay of who was a better caretaker, if anything Clementine learned what not to do from Jane. Kenny had some mess-ups but it was less and for good reason. Kenny taught Clem not to trust everyone, to not leave anyone behind, I could go through the list, while Jane wanted to teach Clem to ditch her friends because shes better off alone when really its dangerous and not safe for her especially as a child no matter how smart she is, and she wanted to teach that at the worst time that but Arvo and Clem at great risk including emotional distress of her being forced to kill one of them because Jane just couldn't wait a little longer. I keep my opinion.
How Jane leaned on Clementine? All she did was: Lead Clem & pregnant woman through horde of walkers -> Teach Clem how to survive bett… moreer -> Run away (to not see more people die) -> Return (because she cares) -> Help Clem from not freezing -> Help Clem when she got shot -> Test Kenny's reaction (from her POV Kenny will blow up and will kill/beat the shit out of whoever he will find to blame. It was Lee+Ben in S1; Arvo+Jane in S2 and it could be Clementine in S3) to prevent something potentially bad hapenning to Clem
I was Clementine and I didn't learn jack shit from Jane.
Clementine learns what kind of walkers to loot, what kind of melee weapons to use more effectively and how to deal with walkers more easily (hit the leg first and then when they fall down finish them in their head). I think you learn that no matter what choices you make.
Maybe I learned what is the exact most stupidest time ever to show someone your better then someone
Or you can see it from different perspective and see that she tries to prevent an unleashing of a monster. I don't see how you even need to show that you're better than an old man who beats up a kid or someone who was not able to save a baby to just to deal with his loss.
I learned more from Kenny and Lee than I never learned from Jane.
Well, of course you do. You've been together for a longer time. Anyway, that's not even a quantity or quality question.
Kenny had some mess-ups but it was less and for good reason.
Maybe there were good reasons, but it still could hurt Clem sooner or later.
Kenny taught Clem to not leave anyone behind
Just like that time when he refused to go to look for Clem just because Lee didn't agree to bash Larry's head while he was still alive.
Jane wanted to teach Clem to ditch her friends
That's because Jane saw her sister in Clem and she was afraid to live through the same what happened with her sister and with her group (people try to save one and lose 5 aka not even saving that guy; rest of group falls apart). That's where you have to teach her something. That you can't lose hope and you need to help out your people even at their darkest times. When I was convincing Sara to leave, Jane could of just left, but stayed till the end. Later on at the museum Sara is in trouble again and I convince Jane to help out Sara. She does everything possible even though it's not enough. From that Jane relearns that you can't ditch people who are important to you. That's why she comes back because of Clem, AJ, Luke and promises that she won't leave Clem. That's the point where Clem is sure that Jane won't leave her and will take care of her.At least, that's my perspective.
Jane just couldn't wait a little longer
Yeah that was too spontaneous and she should of waited, but if it occurs I can't justify Kenny killing Jane at that point.
Either way I understand why someone chose Kenny and why someone chose Jane. That's why I love games from Telltale. Everyone can see the story differently and the experience can be so unique for each player. What I tried to get out of this discussion is to understand why you said Lee+Kenny = best and everyone = stupid and afterwards kept dodging every question I ask and instead focus on something else. I guess that's because you chose Kenny for other reasons than "everyone else is stupid and can't survive on their own".
I was Clementine and I didn't learn jack shit from Jane. Maybe I learned what is the exact most stupidest time ever to show someone your bet… moreter then someone, and maybe not to put a baby in a freezing car to do so, but I can guarantee through my gameplay I learned more from Kenny and Lee than I never learned from Jane. Its my opinion anyways and my gameplay of who was a better caretaker, if anything Clementine learned what not to do from Jane. Kenny had some mess-ups but it was less and for good reason. Kenny taught Clem not to trust everyone, to not leave anyone behind, I could go through the list, while Jane wanted to teach Clem to ditch her friends because shes better off alone when really its dangerous and not safe for her especially as a child no matter how smart she is, and she wanted to teach that at the worst time that but Arvo and Clem at great risk including emotional distress of her being forced to kill one of them because Jane just couldn't wait a little longer. I keep my opinion.
I get your points though. But it doesn't change my gameplay. I liked Jane until the ending of episode 5, I was for all Kenny after that. Especially after choosing the ending with Kenny and comparing Kenny's ending to Jane's, and how much Kenny's true character was shown for his ending, cant go back. By the way, I answered all your questions. If you wanted a reply that bad you should be grateful I even came back to continue this when I know this particular argument goes absolutely nowhere. I'm not sure if you know, but like many I hated almost all of the new characters in S2, I only liked Kenny and maybe Luke, all others where secondary characters that did nothing but annoy me and made Clem do everything, including Jane, so that whole bunch was just not for me, Kenny being in S1 which had more favorable or memorable characters made him in that category so he had much more of a story or relationship with any of the characters in S2 as he was there since the start of S1, hes personality stands out the most out of all the characters in S2 and Jane being with the annoying bunch especially because of ep 5 I would not want Clem to stay with her if she was still alive. And people cant say her screw up in ep 5 was bad writing, as then any screw up that Kenny had should be justified as bad writing and could be used as just as well a excuse. It was her character.
I was Clementine and I didn't learn jack shit from Jane.
Clementine learns what kind of walkers to loot, what kind of melee weapons … moreto use more effectively and how to deal with walkers more easily (hit the leg first and then when they fall down finish them in their head). I think you learn that no matter what choices you make.
Maybe I learned what is the exact most stupidest time ever to show someone your better then someone
Or you can see it from different perspective and see that she tries to prevent an unleashing of a monster. I don't see how you even need to show that you're better than an old man who beats up a kid or someone who was not able to save a baby to just to deal with his loss.
I learned more from Kenny and Lee than I never learned from Jane.
Well, of course you do. You've been together for a longer time. Anyway, that's not even a quantity or quality question.
Kenny had some mess-ups bu… [view original content]
oops... I picked Jane over Kenny cuz Jane was right about Kenny becoming more and more unstable because of everything that has happen to him and those he loved.
i think that clem didnt really need any of them. well atleast after christa and omid. Lee taught her everything she needed to know and what he missed Christa and Omid taught her. after Christa i think clem realized she could take care of her self.
Walter was the one in the cabin with Sarita and Kenny right? Does that really count as a weak group? It's not like they didn't almost kill u… mores, if not for Clem coming in to save the day.
And was Kenny really their leader before we came? Kinda felt like he was still unstable so I thought Walter was their leader, him and Sarita combined.
I'll give it to you for Alvin and Pete because we actually had enough time to form an opinion on their abilities. But Walter was a diamond in the rough that was cast away too quickly. If I remember him right, the only thing that made him weak was Carver. Other than that, we coulda survived ages up at the cabin.
If it wasn't for God damn Bonnie.
How to make people feel like they're wasting their time!
Step 1: Express your opinion.
Step 2: Wait for them to express theirs.
Step 3: Act like they are arguing with you; tell them that they are desperate for a reply; and tell them they should be grateful that you decided to write back. Remember to have an air of superiority!
I genuinely apologize if wasn't your intention and you did this subconsciously, and I advice you to check how you compose your comments. It shows that you are making an effort when writing them, though you might want to reconsider some aspects. Just some constructive criticism.
I get your points though. But it doesn't change my gameplay. I liked Jane until the ending of episode 5, I was for all Kenny after that. Esp… moreecially after choosing the ending with Kenny and comparing Kenny's ending to Jane's, and how much Kenny's true character was shown for his ending, cant go back. By the way, I answered all your questions. If you wanted a reply that bad you should be grateful I even came back to continue this when I know this particular argument goes absolutely nowhere. I'm not sure if you know, but like many I hated almost all of the new characters in S2, I only liked Kenny and maybe Luke, all others where secondary characters that did nothing but annoy me and made Clem do everything, including Jane, so that whole bunch was just not for me, Kenny being in S1 which had more favorable or memorable characters made him in that category so he had much more of a story or relationship with any of the characters in S2 as he was th… [view original content]
Lasting for a long time is hardly a sign of great survivor skills when a) you're part of a community like Alvin or b) You're pampered like Pete and Walter. Meaning, you're not dealing with what a lot of other people are dealing with in TWD universe. Pete was pretty excluded from the rest of the world and Walter was living in a freaking lodge WITH POWER and years worth of food.
We can't form opinions on "what ifs". All we have to go on is what we witnessed and piece clues from there.
I wouldn't take it as "w… morehat-ifs," per se, but as things that happened off screen. We know that the cabin group—Carlos, Sarah, Rebecca, Alvin, Luke, Pete, Nick, Nick's mother, and maybe the survivor who bit her—made it all the way from Tenessee to Virginia. That has to tell us something about their skills.
Walter and Alvin were great people and idea role models, but they were weak. They were pampered by a nice group with a safe living arrangement (whom neither of which lead). From what we could see of them, neither had what it takes to survive outside of those circumstances.
Matthew and Walter were in the ski lodge by themselves for more than two years, surviving successfully. I wouldn't really count Matthew himself as a "pampering group."
Alvin, yes, he was pampered by a group, though it was hinted that he is a … [view original content]
I agree..... What could Bonnie offer Clem??? Clem was smarter, showed better judgement, and probably had more overall sense. Not to mention she has no loyalty or morals.
My decision would favor Kenny a lot in this case. Bonnie is a junkie, have an intellect lower than Clementine and she's completely misjudgin… moreg situations which will end up very bad for Clem sooner or later.
However if Bonnie would be different...I would think about it
Luke was smart and knew going up against people who are holding hostages and also happen to be armed with assault rifles would end in blood. So he followed them back.
Tell Walter how awesome Kenny is.
Bitter Boy Blue you are lol. Despite what happened, at least he was the only one actually trying t… moreo help the group. Where was Luke? Why didn't he help? I bet you anything if Luke was the one who indirectly got Walter killed, you wouldn't say a bad word about him.
I love how people can hate a video game character so much. God what a fantastic job telltale did with Kenny.
There was never really a explanations as to the reason why Luke was M.I.A at the end of "A House Divided" so don't jump to unreasonable conclusions because you hate Kenny.
Luke was smart and knew going up against people who are holding hostages and also happen to be armed with assault rifles would end in blood. So he followed them back.
Luke was smart and knew going up against people who are holding hostages and also happen to be armed with assault rifles would end in blood. So he followed them back.
There was never really a explanations as to the reason why Luke was M.I.A at the end of "A House Divided" so don't jump to unreasonable conclusions because you hate Kenny.
Your avatar and name are of Lee Everett. It's pretty obvious you wouldn't go that far.
But if we wanna think of all the people we've enco… moreuntered in TWD, these would be the best influences on Clem. They might not be Rick or Darryl, but they are the ones who would lead communities to the future. Instead of just killing to survive.
Lasting for a long time is hardly a sign of great survivor skills when a) you're part of a community like Alvin or b) You're pampered like P… moreete and Walter. Meaning, you're not dealing with what a lot of other people are dealing with in TWD universe. Pete was pretty excluded from the rest of the world and Walter was living in a freaking lodge WITH POWER and years worth of food.
I answered all of his/her questions. Are you telling me how to write my comments? Just kidding, I was going to sound like one of those people that think I can do whatever I want on the internet because its my opinion. Really I can though, I want to advise you that. But it wasn't intentionally if you thought that.
How to make people feel like they're wasting their time!
Step 1: Express your opinion.
Step 2: Wait for them to express theirs… more.
Step 3: Act like they are arguing with you; tell them that they are desperate for a reply; and tell them they should be grateful that you decided to write back. Remember to have an air of superiority!
I genuinely apologize if wasn't your intention and you did this subconsciously, and I advice you to check how you compose your comments. It shows that you are making an effort when writing them, though you might want to reconsider some aspects. Just some constructive criticism.
And if you do it intentionally, please don't.
Yeah it was unrealistic, even if the cabin was close to Howes...they were 5 days out from the cabin. Of course Kenny being able to even move and fight walkers after the beating he received was unrealistic. But that's plot.
I guess it's a matter of opinion. To me, survivor skills is determined by how one reacts to a life threatening crisis. It's like the first Hunger Games book. The Careers appeared to be strong and "survived" because they had most of the weapons and food. Once Katniss destroyed all of that, there lack of knowledge about how to truly survive the Games began to show. Same thing when it comes to Walter and Pete.
I guess you have your mindset and I have mine.
Thanks for the assist @BetterToSleep
But yeah, lasting for a long time is literally what survival skills are.
Do not think there needed to be one...walkers man...now please do not let your pathological love for Kenny blind you to the fact that he screwed up big time. The thing is I do like Kenny, but he is an asshat.
There was never really a explanations as to the reason why Luke was M.I.A at the end of "A House Divided" so don't jump to unreasonable conclusions because you hate Kenny.
Do not think there needed to be one...walkers man...now please do not let your pathological love for Kenny blind you to the fact that he screwed up big time. The thing is I do like Kenny, but he is an asshat.
Well that's easy to explain...because Kennyshouldabeengoatrapped was taken. I admit I was a ill pissed at Kenny that I only disagreed with him once and he would not go with me to rescue a little girl....what an asshole. Now I have been replaying and yeah he is still an asshole but I do love how he was written.
please do not let your pathological love for Kenny blind you
* Just because I pointed out something doesn't mean I am obsessed ove… morer Kenny,
The Thing is I do like Kenny
Right.. Is that why your username is " Kennyshouladiedins1"
Comments
To be fair, Christa was dealing with an older more trained Clem. Lee had a lot more to deal with.
It depends on how you define "caretaker". Alvin would have been a better father figure in a normal world. Pete and Walter probably had more to offer, but that is about it. All 3 lacked survivor skills(what it takes to make it in TWD universe). As we saw, they can maintain when things are going well, but they are useless when stuff hits the fan. Lee offered the perfect balance of caring, and understanding what is needed to survive in that type of world
True. He taught her how to shoot a gun. And pretty much a lot of things before they even met Christa
If only he taught her how to start a fire
Now let's remember what happened to Alvin and Walter. Plot happened. Aka Carver happened.
Do you think we really understand the extent of their survival skills? Mostly Walter, because we were with Alvin for a bit and know a bit more about him.
And cmon, I think Pete is a better survivor then not only Lee, but a whole lot of TWD people. He's not only good at doing what needs to be done, he also recognizes that it isn't right. Just like Lee can (if you choose).
Alvin probably doesn't have the skills, but we barely have Walter a chance. And even when you tell the truth about Nick, he does what's needed to be done once again. And it hurts him. Just like it hurt my Lee.
I think we don't realize that we got attached to Lee. That plays a big role in whether we see them for who they are or not. Lee was great, but Pete and Walter could've been just as great, if not greater
We can't form opinions on "what ifs". All we have to go on is what we witnessed and piece clues from there. Walter and Alvin were great people and idea role models, but they were weak. They were pampered by a nice group with a safe living arrangement(whom neither of which lead). From what we could see of them, neither had what it takes to survive outside of those circumstances. In fact, Clem herself had better survivor skills than those two. The only thing she would have needed them for is companionship. Other than that, they would have been dead weight.
When it comes to Pete, in what way is he better at surviving than Lee??? He trust too easily; which is bad, and his method is reckless. Staying at sea away from people and walkers is pointless when you have to constantly go back for food, water, and repairs. And as we can see, when a crisis comes, he is of no use. Do you think he would have survived without Michonne??? Sam and Paige would be better caretakers than Pete. Not to mention that he is at the mercy of other people. Though managing that boat alone is not impossible, it is improbable.
Lee was more versatile. He could survive on his own or with a crew. He was compassionate, but not too trusting. He was capable of doing the right thing and capable of doing what ever needed to be done. Based on what he have seen; could we say the same about Pete, Alvin or Walter???
I doubt Lee ever would have lived in the woods....
Walter was the one in the cabin with Sarita and Kenny right? Does that really count as a weak group? It's not like they didn't almost kill us, if not for Clem coming in to save the day.
And was Kenny really their leader before we came? Kinda felt like he was still unstable so I thought Walter was their leader, him and Sarita combined.
I'll give it to you for Alvin and Pete because we actually had enough time to form an opinion on their abilities. But Walter was a diamond in the rough that was cast away too quickly. If I remember him right, the only thing that made him weak was Carver. Other than that, we coulda survived ages up at the cabin.
If it wasn't for God damn Bonnie.
In hindsight, I think Bonnie vs Kenny would make more sense. She was someone new to Clementine but had been around since at least A House Divided, but she's also someone we got to know as early as 400 Days, she's done enough both good and bad that it makes it easier to have her be a conflicting choice than, say, Luke or Jane, it would make sense that someone who was actually in love with Luke took his place if he died and the rest of the cabin group wasn't an option, she does show concern for Clementine enough that she'd be willing to abandon Mike if you try to save Luke, and considering she was a guard at Carver's camp (this would know it better) and would rather fix it than leave it, it makes more sense for her to wanna go back than for Jane to suggest the same thing.
I had another alternate, but I can't think of it at the moment.
My decision would favor Kenny a lot in this case. Bonnie is a junkie, have an intellect lower than Clementine and she's completely misjudging situations which will end up very bad for Clem sooner or later.
However if Bonnie would be different...I would think about it
Wow, if it was Bonnie vs Kenny I'd not think for more than half a second before pressing the "Look away" button
I wouldn't take it as "what-ifs," per se, but as things that happened off screen. We know that the cabin group—Carlos, Sarah, Rebecca, Alvin, Luke, Pete, Nick, Nick's mother, and maybe the survivor who bit her—made it all the way from Tenessee to Virginia. That has to tell us something about their skills.
Matthew and Walter were in the ski lodge by themselves for more than two years, surviving successfully. I wouldn't really count Matthew himself as a "pampering group."
Alvin, yes, he was pampered by a group, though it was hinted that he is a lot more savage than we know—remember he murdered George in cold blood? Besides, he contributed to moving across more than a few states.
Everybody in the second season was dead weight because Clementine was a superhero.
I am pretty sure that @ShaneGrimes referred to uncle Pete, not captain Pete.
He did, for more than two years. Pete, Siddiq, Oak, and Berto were actually part of a bigger community called Oceanside.
If I had to choose 2 people to look after Clementine, it would only be Lee or Kenny, for sure. All others where idiots and needed Clem to survive.
How Jane needs Clementine to survive? She survived alone before
I meant the characters leaned on Clementine for everything and wanted her to do everything, Lee and Kenny where the only two who didn't or did it the least, noticed Clem was a child and solved their own problems, Kenny survived on his own after he vanished in S1 without Clem, especially Lee aswell.
How Jane leaned on Clementine? All she did was: Lead Clem & pregnant woman through horde of walkers -> Teach Clem how to survive better -> Run away (to not see more people die) -> Return (because she cares) -> Help Clem from not freezing -> Help Clem when she got shot -> Test Kenny's reaction (from her POV Kenny will blow up and will kill/beat the shit out of whoever he will find to blame. It was Lee+Ben in S1; Arvo+Jane in S2 and it could be Clementine in S3) to prevent something potentially bad hapenning to Clem
I was Clementine and I didn't learn jack shit from Jane. Maybe I learned what is the exact most stupidest time ever to show someone your better then someone, and maybe not to put a baby in a freezing car to do so, but I can guarantee through my gameplay I learned more from Kenny and Lee than I never learned from Jane. Its my opinion anyways and my gameplay of who was a better caretaker, if anything Clementine learned what not to do from Jane. Kenny had some mess-ups but it was less and for good reason. Kenny taught Clem not to trust everyone, to not leave anyone behind, I could go through the list, while Jane wanted to teach Clem to ditch her friends because shes better off alone when really its dangerous and not safe for her especially as a child no matter how smart she is, and she wanted to teach that at the worst time that but Arvo and Clem at great risk including emotional distress of her being forced to kill one of them because Jane just couldn't wait a little longer. I keep my opinion.
Clementine learns what kind of walkers to loot, what kind of melee weapons to use more effectively and how to deal with walkers more easily (hit the leg first and then when they fall down finish them in their head). I think you learn that no matter what choices you make.
Or you can see it from different perspective and see that she tries to prevent an unleashing of a monster. I don't see how you even need to show that you're better than an old man who beats up a kid or someone who was not able to save a baby to just to deal with his loss.
Well, of course you do. You've been together for a longer time. Anyway, that's not even a quantity or quality question.
Maybe there were good reasons, but it still could hurt Clem sooner or later.
Just like that time when he refused to go to look for Clem just because Lee didn't agree to bash Larry's head while he was still alive.
That's because Jane saw her sister in Clem and she was afraid to live through the same what happened with her sister and with her group (people try to save one and lose 5 aka not even saving that guy; rest of group falls apart). That's where you have to teach her something. That you can't lose hope and you need to help out your people even at their darkest times. When I was convincing Sara to leave, Jane could of just left, but stayed till the end. Later on at the museum Sara is in trouble again and I convince Jane to help out Sara. She does everything possible even though it's not enough. From that Jane relearns that you can't ditch people who are important to you. That's why she comes back because of Clem, AJ, Luke and promises that she won't leave Clem. That's the point where Clem is sure that Jane won't leave her and will take care of her.At least, that's my perspective.
Yeah that was too spontaneous and she should of waited, but if it occurs I can't justify Kenny killing Jane at that point.
Either way I understand why someone chose Kenny and why someone chose Jane. That's why I love games from Telltale. Everyone can see the story differently and the experience can be so unique for each player. What I tried to get out of this discussion is to understand why you said Lee+Kenny = best and everyone = stupid and afterwards kept dodging every question I ask and instead focus on something else. I guess that's because you chose Kenny for other reasons than "everyone else is stupid and can't survive on their own".
I get your points though. But it doesn't change my gameplay. I liked Jane until the ending of episode 5, I was for all Kenny after that. Especially after choosing the ending with Kenny and comparing Kenny's ending to Jane's, and how much Kenny's true character was shown for his ending, cant go back. By the way, I answered all your questions. If you wanted a reply that bad you should be grateful I even came back to continue this when I know this particular argument goes absolutely nowhere. I'm not sure if you know, but like many I hated almost all of the new characters in S2, I only liked Kenny and maybe Luke, all others where secondary characters that did nothing but annoy me and made Clem do everything, including Jane, so that whole bunch was just not for me, Kenny being in S1 which had more favorable or memorable characters made him in that category so he had much more of a story or relationship with any of the characters in S2 as he was there since the start of S1, hes personality stands out the most out of all the characters in S2 and Jane being with the annoying bunch especially because of ep 5 I would not want Clem to stay with her if she was still alive. And people cant say her screw up in ep 5 was bad writing, as then any screw up that Kenny had should be justified as bad writing and could be used as just as well a excuse. It was her character.
Jane egged him on. she was manipulative from the beginning thats why i didnt trust her. also kenny never left blood relatives to die.
i think that clem didnt really need any of them. well atleast after christa and omid. Lee taught her everything she needed to know and what he missed Christa and Omid taught her. after Christa i think clem realized she could take care of her self.
Kenny wasn't put in a position where he couldn't throw his sister up and through the skylight because of gravity.
Oh, same here, @Romaoplays. As much as I dislike him, I wouldn't want to watch Kenny's face be blown off by Bonnie's assault rifle.
Didn't say the group was weak. I said they had it easy.
I genuinely apologize if wasn't your intention and you did this subconsciously, and I advice you to check how you compose your comments. It shows that you are making an effort when writing them, though you might want to reconsider some aspects. Just some constructive criticism.
And if you do it intentionally, please don't.
Lasting for a long time is hardly a sign of great survivor skills when a) you're part of a community like Alvin or b) You're pampered like Pete and Walter. Meaning, you're not dealing with what a lot of other people are dealing with in TWD universe. Pete was pretty excluded from the rest of the world and Walter was living in a freaking lodge WITH POWER and years worth of food.
I agree..... What could Bonnie offer Clem??? Clem was smarter, showed better judgement, and probably had more overall sense. Not to mention she has no loyalty or morals.
Luke was smart and knew going up against people who are holding hostages and also happen to be armed with assault rifles would end in blood. So he followed them back.
There was never really a explanations as to the reason why Luke was M.I.A at the end of "A House Divided" so don't jump to unreasonable conclusions because you hate Kenny.
Which by the way was unrealistic on how Luke followerd them all the way back. I wonder if he flew there or ran for days to get to Howes?
Some people will find anything they can to use against Kenny and put him in a negative light
And thank god for that.
They didn't really have it easy. We barely even know the hardships they faced before we came. It just looked better than outside that night.
I guess you have your mindset and I have mine.
Thanks for the assist @BetterToSleep
But yeah, lasting for a long time is literally what survival skills are.
I answered all of his/her questions. Are you telling me how to write my comments? Just kidding, I was going to sound like one of those people that think I can do whatever I want on the internet because its my opinion. Really I can though, I want to advise you that. But it wasn't intentionally if you thought that.
Yeah it was unrealistic, even if the cabin was close to Howes...they were 5 days out from the cabin. Of course Kenny being able to even move and fight walkers after the beating he received was unrealistic. But that's plot.
I guess it's a matter of opinion. To me, survivor skills is determined by how one reacts to a life threatening crisis. It's like the first Hunger Games book. The Careers appeared to be strong and "survived" because they had most of the weapons and food. Once Katniss destroyed all of that, there lack of knowledge about how to truly survive the Games began to show. Same thing when it comes to Walter and Pete.
True; we don't. Which is why I said we can only form opinions on what we saw. For all we know, they could have had it even easier.
Do not think there needed to be one...walkers man...now please do not let your pathological love for Kenny blind you to the fact that he screwed up big time. The thing is I do like Kenny, but he is an asshat.
Right.. Is that why your username is " Kennyshouladiedins1"
Well that's easy to explain...because Kennyshouldabeengoatrapped was taken. I admit I was a ill pissed at Kenny that I only disagreed with him once and he would not go with me to rescue a little girl....what an asshole. Now I have been replaying and yeah he is still an asshole but I do love how he was written.